I used to make benchrest bullets and have a lot of lead wire.. Getting the urge to start casting again. I've seen rotometals offers tin, antimony etc to add to lead..

Any idea what percent of what metal I should add to the lead I have to cast bullets for .30-30, .375 win., .444 and or 45-70 ?

Used to cast many years ago, going to be like starting all over though.. But that's okay, will enjoy a new project--hobby..

Lyman #2 Alloy will do for all of the cartridges you mentioned if you're using smokeless powder in the .45-70.

If you're going to use Black Powder in the .45-70, then either the 20:1 Alloy or even 30:1 Alloy will be best.

Any alloy with antimony will be good for heat treating and then there's always powder coating to eliminate leading and cut down on the mess of lubing. Be careful with the hardness, harder is not always better! Sometimes harder bullets lead the barrel more than a slightly softer slug will.

Welcome back to the wonderful world of lead!

Ed

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Carve out a day or nine for all the info here.....

For my rifle use I normally use 2-3% antimony, the lower range for 25-20 and 38-55, a little more for 308 at over 2000 fps. Pistols in my case are 45 acp and 45 colt, they get less than 2%. The 5% tin in Lyman #2 makes it pretty expensive, I normally run 1-2%. I've shot thousands of rounds over the years with no trouble from these percentages.

Sometimes I shoot recycled wheelweights, sometimes I buy commercial Lyman #2 or try to duplicate it. I can't see any particular difference in the cartridges I load for ... mostly .44 magnum, off and on .32 mag, .45 colt, and .45-70. I'm going to start loading for .454 but my load goals replicate .44 magnum speed, not max speed, so I'm not going to do anything special for it.

The most important thing so far as leading is properly sizing the bullet to match your bore diameter ... plus cylinder throats if you're shooting a revolver. You need a lube but unless you are running very high velocity for cast bullets the sort of lube really only matters if you've got the sizing wrong.

Tom

I pretty much use wheel weight lead in those cartridges mentioned, except 444. I sold my Marlin 444 because the cast bullets, I had, didn’t work through the action. The cartridges were too long.
I have mono-type, plumbers lead and tin on hand but wheel weight lead works well in those cartridges and I got quite a bit of wheel weights - free - years ago.
You might consider buying a tool to measure hardness.

Easy way to hit the 10X with lead is to wrap it in paper. Alloys not needed for the most part. Pure Pb works just dandy.

Casting lead bullets can be like opening Pandora's Box. Without knowing the performance levels desired of the cartridges named it would be dumb for me to recommend an alloy. It's not like going to the store and plucking a box of jacketed bullets off the shelf - you must know what your goals are and plan accordingly. That's not to say that it's an overwhelming thing, quite the contrary, but it is a thinking man's game that requires a little research before jumping in. Buy, and digest, Lyman's Cast Bullet handbook before taking another step.

^^^^good advice^^^^

Just to add to the original thought, I intend to hunt with the bullets cast, mostly pigs. So will be pushing 2,000 fps hopefully.. So both accuracy and adequate velocity are the goal..

I had the digest, I think, a few decades ago.. will need to hit up amazon for a new copy..

From softest to hardest, to duplicate the most commonly used bullet alloys:

Black Powder Cartridge = 5% tin, 95% lead - no antimony.

Wheel Weights = 1% tin, 3% antimony, 96% lead (skip the .25% arsenic).

Lyman's No. 2 = 5% tin, 5% antimony, 90% lead.

Linotype = 4% tin, 12% antimony, 84% lead.

Being a cheapskate, I’ve mostly used salvaged wheel weights to make gas checked bullets which I load to about 1680 fps for best accuracy (left target).



Linotype allows much more speed with very good accuracy, but is brittle upon impact. Its hardness allows bullets to cycle through semi-autos and lever guns with the least deformation (almost like jacketed).

I have no experience with bullets made from black powder cartridge or Lyman No. 2 alloys.

For the chosen velocity, the softest bullet that fits and doesn't lead the bore is often the most accurate.

Good advice above, take heed.

Wheel weight alloy or equivalent will likely serve your objectives, but....2,000 FPS seems a bit arbitrary to my eye. While it’s no big trick to exceed that with a .30-30 using 12 BHN lead, softer alloys and lower velocity work remarkably well, both from a precision and terminal effects perspective. Buffalo and hogs will tell you the same.

Thanks all.. Apparently I need to rethink the velocity. Perhaps all is not golden at the top end..

Most all of my hunting these days is moseying along in the river bottom during the cooler seasons. No big trick to ease into close range on pigs. I bowhunted for years using both recurves and longbows killing my share, perhaps someones else's share too., Starring to get a bit long in the tooth for pulling heavy bows..

So using these old lever rifles with cast bullets should be big fun... And not require top velocities in these cartridges.

Again, sure appreciate guidance in this quest !

PatB, I’m a bit late to the party, but you may find this of some interest. The photo was of a target (first group from the rifle) with my Marlin GG 45-70, 430 grain cast, using wheel weights, water quenched @ casting, gas checked, powder coated, fired using a 4 x scope @ 100 yards.

I adjusted the scope after shot labeled #1, the next 4 were measured!

Pretty happy with velocity and grouping capability.....should be adequate for most anything in NA. memtb

Keep in mind that the original .32-40 loading propelled a 165 grain lead bullet at between 1400 and 1500 fps, while the .45-70-405 was about 1350.

Pure lead, MV ~1,600 fps, shot at 80 yards causes deer to flop. 300 gr from a 77/44.


Did the same thing to a hog as well. They were sufficiently accurate.
8 shot group:

Yep. One of the reasons the old round balls were so devastating in the Revolutionary & Civil War when fired from muskets. And resulted in lots of amputations in those that didn’t die from their wounds.

The pure lead rounds balls I’ve shot in my .54 Cal Hawken work surprisingly well on deer and hogs. Usually bang, flop, dead right there. And are amazingly accurate too.

That's pretty sporty DD.. Great accuracy, would be surprised it the rifle shot any better with jacketed..

Looks like you have the paper patching down to a fine art..

I'm guessing somewhere online there's a tutorial on paper patching or at least a read or two..

Are the lead pp'd bullets a single shot only affair? Would they hold up to having 2 or 3 in a tubular magazine?

Singe shot only??? NO!

Marlin 45-70 Cowboy gun...

300 Blackout, 210 grain, 1100fps, recovered from damp sand:




And pretty accurate:

50 yards, squares measure .4", 5 shots, BHN - 10ish

Pat, a fellow named Paul Matthews president published a book “The Paper Jacket” a little more than 20 years ago that was my path to success. My rifle had a distinct preference for PP lead rather than jacketed bullets.

I fiddle with cross strip patch on target ML guns as well. Paper can be your best buddy some days, but with some trial, error and close attention naked lead can perform quite well.

What paper is used ? One wrap or more? Any trouble with the paper during seating ? Guess case needs a good chamfer and bell.. Any adhesive involved to the the paper to adhere to the lead ?

Those look like a pure pb swaged bullet ??

I see the book is still available and I have a copy on the way !

Thank you !

I patch cast and swaged bullets with equal results. Onion skin paper, weight being a measure of thickness. 9# onion skin mic’s at .002”. Dress pattern typically mic’s .0015”. 2-3 wraps works, precision cutting of the paper works. No glue. Wrap the patches wet and let dry. A light wipe of lube is your friend. I use 50/50 beeswax/Vasoline. Dims are the important facto, heavy flares not required. A taper crimp die is the best, and roll crimps suck.

Looks like solid gold in a few words.. I definitely pay heed ! Thanks for the info.

To carry this a bit farther, what would be a good bullet mold for a .30-30? Seems like a good place to start !

And would you get one using gas checks or plain base?

I use the Lyman 311041 for the .30-30 w/gaschecks. BHN roughly equivalent to wheel weights (12), or a bit softer. Have shot them at velocity a hair over 2150 FPS with groups a wee bit bigger than 1” at 50 yds, that with a Win94 Trapper.

Same bullet w/o gaschecks has put 5 into less than .2” at 50 yds from my Contender with the .30 Sneezer

Thanks Dan, appreciate you sharing your knowledge with an old newbie !

As I mentioned elsewhere I had casting equipment back in the early '70s.. Many molds, all for pistol though.. Somehow all that stuff disappeared over the years so will start the accumulation again.. More time now anyway.

311041 is a good general use bullet in 30 cal rifles. i haven't hunted with them. i lube and install gas checks using a .311 sizer. i have tried others and found none better. as for alloy, wheel weights plus a little tin.

generally 4198 is a good choice.

If I were in your very shoes right now, I'd go to the Cast Boolit Forum and trade that lead wire for clip-on wheel weight (COWW) ingots. COWW alloy does just about everything unless you're wanting to cast HP's, then you might want to stick to a Pb/Sn alloy. Otherwise save the headache of mixing metals. Over the last year I've been messing with the .30 Carbine, running gas-checked bullets cast from air-cooled COWW right up to 2000 fps without and leading. The last few years I've hunted strictly with .357's., .44 Specials, and 45 Colts and have figured out that, at least with the latter two mentioned, you don't really need expanding bullets for game the size of deer and hogs.

35WN

Introduction to the 311041 destined for the Mod 94:


50 yard target, just foolin' around. H335 is not my favorite powder for the .30-30.




The bullet does better in my T/C Contender sans gas check.


The Sneezer shoots....


And I dabble with all manner of toys.

Beautifully cast bullets. If you will, are you running them through a 450 to size and lube or ? Have you settled on a particular lube..

Yes, the Sneezer shoots !! I'm sure you've ruined a pigs day with that or even fed the gators.

The 94 does pretty well too. I have an '54 marlin 1/2 tube .30 and a Win 64 I'm going to run some lead through..

Wonder if a 14 twist barrel would stabilize the 311041?

I have a blank laying on the bench that could chamber in either a .30BR or a .308

Pat, .457 size die and pan lube with SPG. The Sneezer bullets are sized to .309 and lubed with ALOX

Twist rate and the 311041? 12: in a Mod 94, the Sneezer is 12" also. 311041 that I cast is .990" long and weighs 176 gr w/o gas check.

Greenhill formula says it will work in a 14" twist at 1800 fps. There isn't much wiggle room. Says that a minimum twist is 14.5"

Thanks again.

Not positive why I have the 14 twist Shilen.. Thinking I was going to experiment with some 125 noslers. Must have gone a different route..
Anyway, it's not much good for anything else, be a fun project. See if it likes lead..

The 311041 is a good choice for the 30-30, I used it years ago at roughly 1950 fps to take several whitetail with boringly efficient results. That was in a peep sighted M94 Ranger which has since gone down the road because of it's horrible trigger. My only 3 cal now is an old JC Higgins M51-L 308 that shoots better with the NOE version of the Saeco #315, 180 gr tapered shank, flat point. I've seen some say it works well in the 30-30 also. I've taken several deer with it in the last 3 years, no rodeos, no recovered bullets.

The RCBS 30-150-FNGC works very well in the .30-30, too, when cast from wheelweights, with Hornady gas checks attached, lubed with 50/50 Alox/beeswax, and loaded over 15gr. SR4759. However, these examples were commercially cast by Montana Bullet Works (I’m gettin’ lazy), but also propelled by 15gr. SR4759 at about 1,680 fps. Results at 100 yards:



At 6 pounds, the trigger pull on this Savage 219 is nearly equal to the rifle weight, but releases crisply.

You best watch out for DD he is a trick shooter for sure.

I started out by reading everything i could find about cast bullet shooting and after 15 years or more i still don't know everything.

But is fun to play the game,sometimes you win and others you just melt them back down and try again.