I’m setting up my .223 Rem (1-8 twist) for my youngest daughter to learn & play with. Wanted to stock up on a few bullets that could transition her into medium game. I know how well the 55gr Horn SP works but noticed that Speer makes a 70gr SP that I know nothing about. Wanted to get opinions & experiences.

Also, any other bullets I should be looking at for the same purpose would be welcomed.

Parameters: Deer under 200 maybe pigs but lots of targets and rocks.

The Hornady 75 grain amax and hollow points both work very well.

Probably 10 years ago or so I had a 223 set up for 50 grain vmax and 53(maybe 50) tsx. Anyway I had shot a few deer with the tsx load and it worked as well as anything else. A coworker wanted something “that didn’t kick” for his wife to shoot a deer with. So I sent him off with that rifle and a box of the vmax load to let her practice some and the tsx load to shoot deer with. To make a long enough story short he forgot which was which. Because the vmax had the same plastic tip on them like the “shells for his 7 mm” he used them to hunt with. He enjoyed the rifle more than she did and shot several deer with it. When he brought it back I noticed he had shot up almost all of the vmax load and very few of the tsx load. He didn’t know any better and neither did the deer.

I have used the 65 grain Sierra Game King in my 7, 8 and 9 twist .223's for years as an all around bullet. It has worked well for deer. I see that Sierra now has some others in that weight category as well. I'm kind of tempted to try them, but have quite a good stock of the 65 grain SGK's so will probably stick with that.

The 55 Hornady is a reliable performer. I’ve not used the Speer 70 but their 55 is softer than the Hornady of the same weight. I’m curious about the 62 Hornady SP that Midsouth has in stock right now, if it’s like the 55 it should be outstanding.

If you can round up a box I consider the 77TMK the ultimate big game bullet in the 223. Much larger wound channel than the various Barnes offerings but near equal penetration.

For general big game use inside 200 yards, I would go with the 70g Speer.

The first .22 Centerfire deer I ever killed was 40 years ago with the 70g Speer 22-250 handload from a then new Browning B-78 in 22-250 with a 1-14" twist. It was big whitetail doe quartering away at a trot. At the shot she ran a few steps wobbled and tipped over. The range was about 150 yards and it raked trough the last rib and wound up in the offside shoulder.

The big issue back then was most .22 centerfires(including the .223 rifles) has barrels twisted no faster than 1-12" . 70g bullets were long for caliber so Speer designed their bullet with a short rounded nose tor stabilization .As I recall, I was using H380 and got consistent 1" three shot groups at 100 yards from that load. I only used it that few times more on game but none required more than one shot . From then on all my .22 centerfire deer were dropped with whatever varmint load was in my .22-250 at the time and about a dozen other deer fell to various 50 - 55g Varmint or Match bullets placed very precisely in the neck or lungs with shots no longer than 200 yards. The Sierra and Hornady 52/53g Match HP bullets are tough enough they seem to do very consistent work with lung shots on deer. IMHO, when you use a rifle that small on deer bullet placement (neck or broadside lung shots) is key.

I just bought a Winchester XPR .223 bolt gun with a 1-8 twist. I have been mulling over what larger bullets to use for long range and bigger game. The 70 to 80g match type bullets are at the top of the list BUT if I was shooting 200 yards and under and wanted the most forgiving bullet in terms of placement (especially on hogs) I do think I would go with that 70g Speer hands down . In the new faster twist barrels they will be as good as ever. They are still made still available and pretty inexpensive at around $15 per 100 -

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010619848?pid=126472

You guys using the 223 for deer - where are you shooting them?

I recently bought a 223 and am considering whacking a few deer with it even though I didn't buy it for that purpose. I would struggle to hold on the shoulder joint on a quarter to shot with a 22 cal cup/core - but I have no idea. I'd guess a mono would work for big bones - but don't know that either......

I think @ingwe could answer that question very completely. Hopefully he’ll chime in.

62g Speer Gold dots are a fantastic bullet, CFE 223 powder, Rem 7 1/2 or CCI 450.

A ton of good info in here. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ll/official-22-caliber-dead-stuff-thread

62 grain Bear Claws are the ticket for deer and pigs with a 223.

CFE powder works great also, 26 grains.

OK, here you go. I have a sample of only a few deer with the Speer 70 grainer and I was not impressed ( at least not in a good way...) A close friend who I actually believe took over 23 deer with that Speer and loves it. There are no flies on the basic 55 gr.Hornady for sure, especially out of a .223

As to where to hit them...the same place you'd hit them with a .30-06


As others have mentioned there are a number of good premium type bullets for this but if you are hanging with the Hornadys,you aren't missing out on much.

I have used the 65gr Sierra's out my 222 with much success. Can not imagine them not working out of a 223.

Thanks Ingwe! I’ve got stacks of the Horn 55 sp. I’ll just stick to those for now.

CZ 527 in 223 rem. I use a max load of H380 with FGMM primer. I get tiny groups. I haven't shot any game with it, but I will, hopefully, maybe, someday.

Thank you! I happen to have 500 52 gr Horn sitting on the bench.

Be aware, the 52 grainers aren't gonna behave on deer like the 55s....the 52s are more frangible.

Do we have a 55gr Horn SP appreciation thread yet? The little bullet is pretty good at everything.

Used both on ME whitetails. .22-250. All strikes behind shoulder, ht/lung shots. No difference in performance. No exits. No blood trails. Short sprints. Pulped innards.

inside or 300 yards and an 8 twist i'm going 77gr tmk

wherever you'd put a 130gr sp from a 270, same with the 223 77tmk combo.

if ur like me and open country is the norm, then go 75gr eld-m for the better BC.

I’ve put many (others many many more) 270/130 in about most conceivable places on many different creatures in many conditions - are you sure that the .224 77tmk is the stuff of legend like any modern 270/130 bullet? I’m not arguing - I have zero experience with the 77tmk but think what you’re suggesting might be requiring a few more years to develop the best flavor.

Food for thought.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14748142/1

Starts on page 2.

Certainly makes a strong case!

He has some posts showing damage on other threads too.

I have to say - after doing some reading & visiting this thread: (https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/page-2), I think there is something unique about the 77gr TMK. I can see more clearly what Ndbowhunter meant - glad I kept an open mind!

A parallel that I draw from personal experience would be that the 77TMK seems to act like the 6mm Sierra 85gr HPBT in medium game that I’ve taken. Outsized performance that some have to see to believe.

Thanks Ndbowhunter & 10ga Mag - opened my eyes.

Thanks for posting the 223 thread - very interesting. I honestly had no idea...........

That makes two of us!

The so revered 77 gr. TMK is certainly not an eat up to the hole bullet.

Never was a question in my mind... If I was going to use a 22 caliber for deer, the answer was the 70 grain Speer....

Worked the first time and every other time after that I've ever used it...

Even with the Barnes X bullets, I tried that ONE time.. and it performed exactly like the Speer 70 SMP...

If I didn't have access to the Speer any time, the next bullet I'd use was the Sierra SMP 63 grain...

in a world with all these "wonderful new bullets"... I will still be using the Speer and Sierra SMP in 70 and 63 grain.

Because those two bullets have been doing it longer than ANY of these newer bullets...

as for placement.. put it where its suppose to go....either will do there job reliably....

if one doesn't know where that is... maybe you might brush up on deer anatomy a little....

Thanks Seafire! I’ve been happy with many other Speer bullets and was hoping someone would chime in with some positive news - I was beginning to wonder

My kind of killer!

i put bullets behind the crease. not too worried about a few spoiled ribs and organ meats.

Would you use the 77TMK if you couldn’t precisely pick your entry?

I would. They dig pretty well. Expect a mess though

I’m a big believer in the 70 Speer SP out of my 223 With 1/9 twist. I’m loading that bullet over H4895. It’s not as high BC as other stuff out there, but I’ve killed deer out to 200 yards with it and my experience with them on deer is the same from 50-200 yards; all bullets exit, stay together and expand to about 2X the original diameter based on exit holes. All of my shots have been broadside lung shots. The 223 in general is still is no match for larger cartridges and bullets at high velocity in regards to initial shock to the animal and blood trails. I do think shot placement becomes more important because you just don’t have the power of larger cartridges that might leave bigger blood trails or cause more tissue damage.

I have used both bullets and shot a number of roe bucks with them using a 5,6x50R a cartridge which, roughly throws them about 70-100 fps faster than a .223R

Both killed well but I prefered the Hornady 55gr over the 70gr Speer, which I found to be too soft for my taste, circumstance that would worsen at 22-250 velocities. The 55gr Hornady shot better, too.

So, between the two I would recommend the 55gr Hornady.

My very favourite in my 1:8" 22-250, though, is the 77gr TMK whose use I owe to Formidilosus who kindly shared his vast experience with it. It is a superb killer and has proved extremely accurate in my gun. It produces an amoiunt of damage and penetration that rationale can not explain.

Alvaro

I’ve shot a handful of deer with the 55hornady with 22-250. It worked very well. Never had one shoot clear through on broadside shot but the bullets are always on the skin on the off side. I shot a couple with the plain Jane hornady 60 grain bullet and they all shot completely through the deer. I’d like to try the 62TTSX and the Speer gold dots as well. I’m guessing they’d be great. But the hornady bullets are cheap and available and they’ve been working well for a long time. Good luck.

Ive used all that you mentioned. The 62TTSX is over the top unless you really want to kill something big.The 55 grain Gold dots are impressive.

Happy to help out....

I tend to use stuff that has worked for decades, instead of some of the new "greatest latest" bullets or powder....

sometimes I wonder If I am stuck on 1953 technology... but in 1953, I was 1 year old... so I hadn't quite started my hunting career yet...

I quit trying all the newest stuff, when I've seen results that didn't meet up with the broadcasted expectations by the manufacturers and others...


I got that bright idea of stuff that is proven and has worked for decades from Two women, overheard talking in a Forest Service Office that was an account of mine...

" So what is your husband getting you for Christmas??"

" Knowing him.... he'll be getting me a 400 Winchester Magnum, to replace the 300 Winchester magnum he got me for my birthday."

That was 25 years ago or more....

and yeah, Speer is behind the times.... they keep making old stuff until recently.. right up my alley...

I shoot a lot of Speer products.... they are cheaper than other companies stuff... yet they always worked for me....so why change?

I bought a box of the 70 grain Speers to try in my 1-12” twist 221 Fireball. The box says 1-10 “ twist or greater. Has anyone had problems stabilizing these bullets in a 1-12?

I'm wondering about the 12 twist also. I was going to buy some to try in a 12 twist 22-250 that shoots the 63 gr. Sierra SMP's well.
Does anyone know if the Speer 70 gr. is more or less fragile than the Sierra 63 gr.? There hasn't been much left of the Sierra 63 gr. bullets in the deer I have killed and none have exited, however the deer remained quite dead.

'70s through '90s used the 70 gr Speer and 63 gr Sierra SMP in 1:14 .22-250s and Swifts. Both stabilized just fine. Don't have recent versions to compare tho.

yeah, I've even stabilized them in a one in 14 twist barrel... along with the Sierra 63 gr SMP.

Guess I am the biggest user of this stuff on this thread at least....

both bullets have always worked for me just fine... and no real mess ....only one time an issue someone would complain about...

dead deer, but if one had wanted to mount the head to hang on the wall, that wouldn't have worked...

scenario... it only had a horn on one side.... Came out of the brush off a forest service road, way back in back country. it was going to turn in the direction I was in, but saw me at 200 yds away... I was uphill from him, so he turned and started to run downhill instead....All I was presented with was the proverbial Texas Heart shot. I don't do those, but I have been presented with them numerous times over the years....So I aim over the tail on them....

Ruger 77 mk 2 in 22.250, with a 70 grain Speer... Took the shot... when I miss, I miss clean... but most time I connect. I am not aiming at the head and neck, I am concentrating of just over that bouncing up and down tail. The bullet struck home, right in the back of its neck....deer was running down hill and went head over heals...
it roll ass over teakettle 3 times... the other younger buck with him took off...

Bullet hit the spine.... and came right out the front of the neck..... the exit wound was about the size of an open book... 10 to 12 inches high, and each side of it was split evenly, just like an open book laying on the table... about 10 to 12 inches of spine was blow out with it...

the rest have been behind the shoulder shots.... and have been as instantly lethal.....

the spike that was with this buck, kept coming out of the woods trying to figure what happened, and why his buddy didn't get up and just run....

neck shots do make it easier to gut them, not having the internal blood filled mess... which was a convenience...

but the Speer bullet certainly does its job.

Thank you, Seafire.

I did the same thing for my boy this year. I had loads worked up for 60 grain Partition, 64 grain Winchester Power Point, 70 grain speer and 62 grain Swift Scirocco. All were similar in accuracy through my 1:8 twist Ruger rifle. I had had a couple poor experiences with the 60 gr partition in the past. One dumb bad luck and one who knows. I have one kill on an antelope with the 64pp and it was pretty impressive. I decided to run with the Scirocco and it served us very well. My boy shot 4 doe throughout the season. All one shot kills. Ranges from 56-90 yards. All complete pass through. Deer ran from 35 to 70 yards. Two liver shots, one went 35, one went 70. One quartering shot got lung, liver and guts, went 35yds. One heart shot, went 70 yards. The shots that had guts had little to no blood. The heart shot had a large blood trail like any other round. The end of the season, I used the rifle to shoot three more deer at 120, 150, 180 yards. Deer ran 50, 50, 120 yards after the shot. The longer trail was due to hitting it back to far. Got liver and guts. The other two were heart/ lung and lung/liver shots. So in the season, we were 7 for 7, all one shot kills, all pass through.
I also have a friend that uses an AR with 62 gr Barnes X and he has killed about 10 that I have witnessed. All pass through shots with good blood. No deer has gone more than 30 yards that he has shot. All perfect placements on the top of the heart and in the lungs.
I would keep shots under 250 for that round. Placement is most important, and if you keep the shots in the chest, the deer will die.

I shot some 60 grain Hornady soft points out of my Remington 1/12 twist ADL at the range. The group was consistently about an inch larger than the 55 grain Hornady SP's. I don't see how a 70 grain bullet will shoot well at all out of a 12 twist. In a 12 twist I think you should stick to 55's or less. Just my opinion.

kwg

I've shot those 70s out of a 1 in 12 22-250 and they shot fine. It's a stubby little bullet made for slow twists

I guy I used to work with, let his little boy use his .223, with plain Win. 55 gr. factory load. He had a video of the kill, and his doe dropped like she was struck by lightning.