So I’ve got an older 30-06 Winchester 70 XTR Featherweight that is speckeled with rust from a prior owner. I was considering chopping & re-crowning prior to Cerokoting. Has a 22” now. Was thinking of 18”.

Im planning on using the rifle as a handy & short woods gun - ranges to 100 max. Not concerned about velocity loss but curious about when muzzle blast becomes an issue in the ‘06.

I wouldn't go less than 20. Blast is pretty nasty under 20" (BTDT). You'll lose some velocity as well.

Man I wouldn't go 18. I had an 18.5" 760 carbine for awhile. That fugger was fearsome LOUD and those big orange fireballs would leave me half blind after a shot at dawn or dusk..

Personally I'd leave it alone....Blackheart's and Craigster's post are two good reasons why...

load it with 300 Savage load data if you want to reduce recoil.....and there are loads in a cast bullet manual that would duplicate 30/30 velocities if you are only shooting at 100 yds or less...

An 18 1/2" barrel on my 06 Carbine isn't that bad, not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

Can get a little bright at dark with 4831 but a faster burning ball powder might help that.

Go for it if you want.

My Encore short rifle in 308 has a 16 5/8 barrel ,, I don't mind the sound or flash at all.. its my 100 yd rifle.

Shortest .30-06 I've shot a meaningful amount is a 20" Steyr Mannlicher. The muzzle flash is the biggest issue, the blast is barely noticeable though, as long as you're the one shooting it.

Ive got a couple of pump carbines in 06 both 18.5" . It definitely gets your attention and when I shoot a few ridges over my buddies know who it was. I don't think its terrible though. But then again i shoot 10 1/2" AR pistols in 223 and 450 bushmaster so i might not mind muzzle blast as much as some

I have a 30-06 with a 19.5” barrel. I have not shot it yet. But, I do shoot and hunt with 20”, 375 & 416 Rugers. I also have a 20” 375 H&H and 2ea 20” 45-70’s. I like 20” barrels. Though have some 16” types in pistol cartridge lever guns.

I bet it balances well now. If the bore is good just Cerakote it if you really want to and re- crown.

You can always have the barrel cut later on.

Does it shoot well now? More reason to leave it be.

I have shot a 15” Encore pistol in 30-06. The muzzle blast and flash on that are impressive.

For what you want to do, I would recommend 18” and then get a SME lightweight or slimline from Witt Machine. It is essentially a linear comp that will throw the sound and blast forward. A little more expensive, but well worth it if you aren’t going to step up to a suppressor.

Yeah, I would work with it first to see how it does before cutting steel. Easy to take off, impossible to put back on. Personally I've never felt encumbered with "normal" length barrels, even in the "laurel jungles" of western PA. If the vegetation is that thick that a stubby barrel is wanted, I bet you'll have a lot other problems that 4" of barrel length won't fix.

i would leave at 22 inch

Outstanding & thoughtful replies fellas!

As others have suggested, I'd try it just the way it is before I did anything to it.

But on another note for a short range woods rifle, I've been shooting/hunting with a Remington 760 CARBINE(18.5 inch barrel) in 30-06 since 1979. Short, great in tight quarters and points like a shotgun when you pull it up to your shoulder.

As far as muzzle blast it never bothered me at the range with muffs and as far as deer hunting, I generally take one shot or 2 and it's all over.

There must be muzzle blast because the farm I hunted on always said when I took a shot they knew it was me.

Muzzle flash as mentioned, is only a problem at dusk near as I ever saw, it will blind you for a moment till you refocus but not really much different than waiting for the smoke to clear after a shot from a muzzleloader.

Just my 2cents.

The other thing to remember is if you are a reloader, most starting loads for the 30-06 are going to put you at just a slightly higher velocity than the 300 Savage which should pretty much eliminate muzzle blast and still be quite capable of killing deer to well over 100 yards out.

I cut my Rem 700 factory sporter barrel from 24" down to 20". I did it to try to improve accuracy, stiffen the barrel. It's blasty enough with full power handloads. I wouldn't want one shorter than 20" myself.

100yds max? Like mentioned above, you could chop it a bit and then download it for lower pressure. Then it wouldn't be so blasty but would still be a great killer. Folks kill all sorts of things with 16" AR10 rifles that are only moving 150-165gr stuff at 2,500-2,600fps.

BUT, if I wasn't going to lower pressures I would leave it at 22".

I had a 30-06 Ruger Hawkeye UL with a 20" barrel. Muzzle flash was pronounced, even in broad daylight. I would not go any shorter than that, and would leave it at 22 if that were an option.

I am a handloader but strangely hadn’t considered designing a load that it will fire & then shorten the barrel accordingly. I was going about this from the wrong end. Lol.

I’d like to minimize blast so it sounds like a more subdued load is in order. I’ve got other full size ‘06 rifles but this one in particular doesn’t have a purpose yet and I guess I’m trying to assign it one.

I knew I asked the right guys!

You are losing a lot of the reason for a long cartridge case, if you are burning it through a short barrel. Leave it at 22 and get a .308, or other short action, if you want a short rifle.

Shorten, thread muzzle, install flash hider. Not a brake, 'cause those piss off everybody when yer at the range with this gun.

Or shorten and thread the barrel and put a can on it . The best of all worlds according to those who use them.

If the OP is concerned about the difference between 22" and 18" for woods rifle handling then what will the length and weight of a can do for the situation?

I cut a 760 down to 19" 40 years ago with a hacksaw. Filed it flat. Broke the edge of the crown with sandpaper and a ball. Went out the next morning and killed a Bull in deep snow. Don't know why but I did. If I had it to do over I wouldn't.
Yep, it's a bit louder and muzzle flash at full loads. I had it crowned later that year and remounted the front sight. Still have the old rifle. I just loaded up 100 Hornady 220 grain solids with 45.5 grains of AA 4064, makes a nice shooting load and have used other faster powder for same purpose. Not looking for speed but just handy loads that shoot well.
I also found a good used 22" barrel assembly and one of these days, it might get turned into a 22" 35 Whelen. Or just have a back up barrel. They aren't making any more of those.

https://www.remingtonsociety.org/remington-model-740-model-742-and-model-7400-autoloading-rifles/

This is what I was referring to in regards to the Witt Machine linear comp.

https://www.wittmachine.net/sme-sound-mitigation-equipment-slimline.html?id=41686712&quantity=1

i had a Remington 760 in 30-06 with an 18.5" barrel that always had a bright muzzle flash that was particularly notiiceable in low light conditions and it was loud, but I never noticed those things when I squeezed the trigger while aiming it at a deer.

I SHOOT ALOT OF SHORT BARRELLED 30-06 RIFLES. I LIKE THE SOUND THEY MAKE!!

capitals intentional

Blast is real nasty on a 18.5" barrel...NASTY!

Gunsmith can cut off 1/4" and re crown.

My first centerfire rifle was a 19" .30-06. It was stupid loud. The advantage of short barrels is usually way overstated.

How would you load an ‘06 to get into that 300 Savage range?

165 or 180 w/ starting 4064 or 4895 load? Thinking old school.

16-20gr of 2400 with cast or some jacketed bullets would keep noise down. 13gr of RedDot would too.

Now those are classics!

Reduced load of H4895.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

Bruce

I have a Model 70 in a Mammlicher stock with a 18" barrel. LIKE IT A LOT! Very accurate, & I find it pleasant to shoot - plus, I LOVE the way it looks! LOVE that full length stock!

Mike Holmes

Back when I was deep in carbine mania I had an 18.5” 30-06 - I found it obnoxious. 21” is as short as I’d go, and that was the length I had on one of my all-time favorite 06’s. In my experience, it’s best to leave the shorter barrels to the 308W.

Would love to know what "Mammlicher" means--though I already have my own notions.....

I agree on barrel length - leaving it at 22 is making more & more sense.



Not sure any further clarity is necessary 😜

The only experience that I have with a .30-06 in a barrel length less that 22" was in a couple of BARs. Both of the those were very loud, and the muzzle flash was surprising.

Leave it alone

^^^that^^^

A 22” barrel is more than compact enough IMO. If I wanted to go shorter I’d go with a short action chambered in .308 Win and 20” barrel.

In my experience unless shooting suppressed a compact stock that fits well makes a lot more difference in feel than an extra couple of inches off of the barrel end. I’d rather square up more towards my target assuming that it isn’t a really hard recoiling rifle with a compact stock. A small difference on the LOP end makes a bigger difference than more off of the barrel end.

I owned a Remington M600 in 308 several years ago, it was a joy to carry through the woods, but the muzzle blast and recoil was to much in my opinion.

I have been using a 17" '06 for - oh, 25 years or so. RU77 Tang - took a muzzle bulge off it, after buying it for $80. Was gonna be a bang-around "boat gun".

got banged around, and I have used it as a boat gun, but it shot well enough to hunt with (1.25MOA)

My first kill with it was a Dall ram at @330 yards. 4 days later a bull moose at @ 70. Since then, my son took a ewe Dall @ 200, I took a bull caribou at @ 375, several plus/minus 200, a number of moose under 100. It's last kill was last August - my wife took a yearling bull caribou at 200 with H. reduced recoil 150 gr factory ammo. Terminal performance was fine at all ranges to 375. All with various factory loads- mostly Corelokts.

A short barrel is little handicap to longer shots - within reason - you just need to know range and trajectory. It does make recoil a bit sharper and report louder. I'm bedding a 22" 270 barrel on to the receiver now..... not particularly or because of the '06 barrel length, tho the 270 bbl should slow/reduce recoil and report both. And it will have his and her's stocks. I never liked the mis-shape chamber, mostly. Never used that brass for reloading. And now, I can, and will quit wasting brass. Besides, I have nearly 100 rounds of factory ammo, and components for several hundred more, without, until now, a rifle to use them in. It will stretch the '06 stuff too - I have two others of that caliber. I also like to minimally resize brass to the particular chamber that it is going into.

If the 270 doesn't shoot acceptably (prelim shoot shows it should) Stub is probably going back on, at least for a year or two. It made a handy "carbine" type rifle with the stock shortened and slimmed fore and aft to fit my wife. I've used it more than she has...

KISS as others have advised. If it shoots well now, 22" is short enuf- 20 if U must. At 100 yards, 4895 reloads will do very well for reduced recoil, quieter loads. I had some once for residential area shooting, and at 100 yards they were the most accurate and very quiet of any in that rifle. Never did hunt with them, but I would have, up to 150 yards and including moose. They were milder than the Hornady reduced recoil factory loads my wife used this past year. I did give some thought to the 1,000 lb brown bears sharing my moose hunting area.

Yeah, I almost used a take-off Manny to bed the 270 make-over into, instead of a used 7Mag take-off I also had.

I think you should do an article on that, MD!

Try to handle a couple of 18" carbines before you cut it. You may find that the balance is too far aft.


Okie John

Go to Hodgons site and look up 30-06 data for the 150 Nosler Ballistic Tip.
Starting loads are generally 2700 some FPS with a 24 inch barrel. That's just a little over .300 Savage Max velocity. Just start at the starting load and work up a half grain or so till you get the satisfactory accuracy node you are looking for out of the gun.
A long shot for me here in the north east is 60 yards, why do I need a full power load from an 06 to kill a deer?
And yep, I'm, old school too either powder you suggest should work find long as your rifle likes that powder. I'm a 4064 fan myself.

H4895 for reduced loads should put you at any velocity you want.

Southern Deer rifles in the past that were in demand is the Rem 7400 Carbine in 30/06 with 18.5" barrel.

I loaded 51g of IMR 4064 with a 150g Sierra, killed a lot of deer with this load. Concussion wave on short barrels is tremendous to say the least. After that rifle, I want all of mine 24" if possible and feel as if all this short barrel stuff is a Woke movement in the rifle marketing industry.

I shoot a reduced load in my 22" 338WM with H4895 and a 185 at 2700fps. It's notably easier on the ears and shoulder than a full-house load. Still quite a killer at medium range too, as it's basically a big-bore version of a 180gr 30-06 factory load in a heavier, magnum-weight rifle.





A 4895 variant is a handy powder to have around when you want to back 10-20% off "full throttle". No reason a guy couldn't do the same with downloading a 30-06 a bit. I've seen quite a few 130/150/165/180gr kills from .308 carbines and never saw them lacking in killing power at reasonable ranges.

Years ago I used a Rem. 7400 Carbine in 30-06 quite a bit. I thought the rifle balanced and shot as good as the 22" version. I do remember the muzzle blast was a lot more noticeable. The reload I used was IMR 4350 and 150 grain bullets. It did light up the area when fired late in the day.

I have two 20 inchers and the muzzle blast is all I want to deal with.

Shoot, I wouldn't sweat an 18 myself POC, all of your brethren in VT, NH, and ME can't get enough of those 18" barreled 7600's..

I have a 20" 270 760 and can't find anything wrong with it either. It is still plenty fast.

Maybe I am just built different from years of bombs, IED's, breaching, short barreled AR's, etc, but an 18" barrel on an 06/270 isn't that bad to me.

Sorry, Mule Deer, my laptop has decided to make "m"'s instead of the "shorter" letter that comes after it! Sometimes the spell-checker corrects this, sometimes it does "mot". Should be using my other computer, but I forget.

Mike Holmes

In the 1970's I put together the lightest 1917 I could build, 16 1/2" barrel stock with all the wood I could remove and drilled and milled as much metal away as I thought safe. It was a great still hunting rifle and killed a number of deer with it, Herters 220gr RN's. I sold it to my neighbor as he was moving out west, he thought it was the best bear hunting rifle he ever shot, he used it for bear, deer and elk.

This....

That was my initial direction with this rifle - do you ever miss that rifle?



Isn’t that the truth - folks up north would shoot a 12” carbine if they made them. Not sure most know how dense things get up here & the glacial spoils have really carved up the terrain into a jumble of ledge & boulders that makes simple traveling very tough at times. The guns that can be carried in many different ways seem to be about perfect imo

No, I replaced it with a very short barreled Savage 99 shooting 180gr RN's. The neighbor was my old trapping partner and I wanted him to have something I knew would work well for him.

Gotcha. Very nice!

PintsofCraft;
Top of the morning to you Pints, I hope you're keeping warm, well and dry so far today.

It's been an interesting read for sure and I'll try not to repeat too many answers but will comment on our own experience.

We've had an 18½" 788 in .308 for 40 years and while it does have a fair bit of muzzle blast to it, when I found a bit of extra thick bush this past season where I was attempting to root out a whitetail, with the permission of my wife who's it is, I dragged it out and was reminded why we liked it so much.

It's handier for me than the 21" walking around rifle I usually use during deer only season.

Others have mentioned working on handloads which gave less recoil and muzzle blast, which might be tougher in these times of powder shortages, but in my experience absolutely works.

If memory serves the best results for me when doing that with a 21" .30-06 as well as a 24" .308 Norma Mag were the nearly twin H4895/IMR4895 powders.

It was a pleasant surprise how much velocity wasn't lost with the .308 Norma Mag especially, but I'd have to go look at the books to see what the numbers were.

It's doable for sure though or at very least worth a try.

In summary I'd say that if the resulting rifle is what you'd like to experiment with then why not try it? They are - as is commonly read here - making new barrels everyday so it's not like you can't put something longer back on if you don't like it shorter, right?

If components were more available, I might even suggest lopping an inch at a time off and seeing where you like the balance best.

Food for thought possibly?

Good luck on the project whichever way you decide and all the best in all other aspects of life.

Dwayne

Good afternoon, Dwane!

We’re pretty used to this weather as I’m sure you are too. Hope your preparations are paying off & keeping you warm.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I keep going round and round about this & likely I’m going to chop it to 18 just to either satisfy my curiosity or create an instant regret. I’m prepared for either outcome. I’m well supplied with components and will enjoy conjuring up a matching load almost as much as the hunting itself.

Have a good one

Tim

here we go, I have a custom built 06 and did not measure the barrel but had it in my mind it was a 26" and when I started carrying i around with my new suppressor it was very unwieldy and long. so took it to have 6' cut off and be a 20" but when I got it back it was 18" I screwed up it in fact had a 24".man I thought I was screwed so looked at the reloading manuals and called Hodgens Powder Co and we came up with IMR8208xmr powder very temp stable and worked up a load with 152 Hammer Hunter Bullets and was very pleased I found a load shooting 2864fps and .300 inch groups at 125 yards.with the can on it balances very well and is not loud at all, I am very happy with the 18" barel