How do you handle a classic double barrel with a tang safety in the field, shotgun or rifle?

I've always carried rifles and shotguns of various action types with an empty chamber, but never used a double in the field. Range work is easy: empty until ready at firing station.

So how do you handle a double with internal hammers safely, beyond the basic four rules? Say a Browning or Beretta 686. Walkabout with empty chambers, action closed? Broken in the crook of your arm? Chambers loaded and safety on?

If I don't have one in the chamber, I'm not hunting.

I have shotguns and a double rifle with tang safety. If I am actively hunting, where game may appear at any time, I have rounds in the chamber, action closed, safety on. I am of course mindful of muzzle discipline. If a shot presents the safety comes off as the gun comes to the shoulder and "bang" (or perhaps "bangbang") - it is the work of a moment.

If I have to cross an obstacle the gun is opened and the rounds come out. The same when the hunting is done.

That's an idiotic statement.

Load, engage the safety and start walking. Simple..

This.

How so?

I'd like to see some one load take, off safety, and fire at a rising pheasant, quail, or grouse with any sucess.

As stated: load, engage and start walking.

Encounter and obstacle, unload, cross ,reload. .

Always practice safe muzzle control

And if walking about with the barrels broken open and presumably with muzzles pointed at the ground, that greatly increases the risk of dirt and crap getting into the barrels. Should one stop, remove cartridges, peek through the bores, reload, slam shut, disengage automatic safety, mount and shoot at a bird rocketing away, by now about 200 yards away?

Load up, engage the safety, and keep your wits about you in regard to muzzle and trigger control. If incapable of doing that, may I gently recommend knitting as a pastime?

Seriously? You're not hunting if you wait to chamber a round when you spot the 300 pound bear you want to shoot?

same here. About the only variation is if I am dove hunting with my young sons I'll break the barrels open while we are just sitting waiting for the birds and just snap them closed as I stand to shoot.

Agree, with doubles.

When hunting with pointing dogs, I sometimes carry with the action broken, shells in chamber, gun slung over my shoulder. Dog goes on point, plenty of time to close gun and walk to the dog.

Same for magazine rifles...

Not here but that's just me.

I agree with this too. If I can walk around with a loaded striker fired pistol with no safety in a holster, I feel that I can hunt with a loaded long arm with the safety on.

UNLESS....it's a 700

Pressured wild roosters don’t wait around.

Load, safety on, start walking.

Load, safety on and start hunting.

Have never understood hunting with an unloaded firearm.

If the possibility of sighting game exists, my gun is loaded, safety on, muzzle under control, which is the only safety that can really be relied upon. Rough terrain, fences, etc, the gun gets broken.

How, by swinging against a tree or rock? (Sorry, couldn't resist. )

I like to do most of my walking with a cold chamber. If game is in sight, hot chamber with safety on, same if walking really likely cover with good footing. This is why I like a pump shotgun; I often carry it chamber cold, hammer down. I can pump a round in nearly as fast as I can release a safety when the sharptails flush.

Empty chambers? Why am I even afield?

One thought was walking around with action broken open but charged chambers and safety off (this assumes no auto-safety).

Closing the gun could be done in the same motion as shouldering to fire.


This is how I run a pump as well.

The big 4 works for all guns...when followed like it is religion. Many gunowners should not have a round in the chamber, or a gun


mike r

Safe gun handling is paramount.

Your primary safety is between your ears.

If you can't handle a loaded firearm with the safety on safely you shouldn't be out hunting period or carrying a firearm period. Philthygeezer you should stay home and do what your wife tells you to do instead of being on a forum with men. Or did your spouse direct you to ask this question ?... mb

Ypu asked "how"? Well 99%++++ of upland hunters have the shotgun loaded, closed and the safety on....However, you are allowed to do as you please if that doesn't suit you...It will not change the percentages of "how".. Pumps or breakopen shotguns. You will be safer walking around, however you will miss many opportunities. Depends on how personally important that would be.

And if you have to ask the question, then you have limited experience in the uplands with other hunters???? Nothing wrong with that being the case, however the implication is obvious.

I do it various ways, depending on the gun, bird and cover. In thick cover prefer to hunt with round (or rounds) chambered, and safety on. Prefer a non-automatic safety on doubles, and most can be easily converted by removing the "auto-link." Want to shoot again after reloading, if that's possible (and it often is with some upland birds, early in the season) , without dinking with the safety again.

But have also hunted quite a bit in more open country with outside-hammer doubles. With some I could NOT cock both hammers with my thumb, so was limited to cocking one hammer--and then trying to cock the other quickly IF a second shot was possible. With those I usually hunted with the gun open, with both hammers cocked, then snapped it shut while mounting the gun. This worked well on more open-country birds, but not so much in thick cover.

But my most recent hammer double, a J.P. Sauer 2-1/2" 12-gauge made in 1911, is not only delightfully light and lively, but I can cock both hammers while raising the gun. This seems pretty safe to carry--as did the Model 97 Winchester pump I've hunted with the chamber "hot" for many years, leaving the hammer on half-cock.

But outside-hammer shotguns aren't very popular anymore....

Agree with both of your sentiments and have practiced such my whole life. Yes I have carried rifles and shotguns with rounds chambered, but sparingly and always depending on the situation.

Beyond religiously following the big four rules, Each firearm type has its own quirks with respect to safety. Load five in a Colt SAA for example. Many shotguns don't lock the firing pins, for another. I am not familiar with doubles beyond a few years of regular trap and skeet with a Beretta double. Hence the question about best practice with respect to that action type.



Ok, notwithstanding that I agree in part with your first sentence, I'll play:

This attitude is exactly one of the ones that produces negligent discharges. I've watched this kind of dumb in the field both privately and professionally, and it still raises the hackles on my neck. The biggest idiot I've ever met in my life with respect to handling firearms said, "...of course I know how to handle a pump shotgun, I'm a man...". I wouldn't let that moron anywhere near a shotgun after that. He'd never handled a firearm, but figured his tallywhacker was all the training he needed.

If invited out with you I would probably stay home for my own safety. Humility breeds safe handling, not the mouth-breather arrogance you just put in writing. I know many women on a pistol team that would probably shoot rings around you, and more safely.

Is that the response you were fishing for? Perhaps I read your post wrong and if so, then I apologize.

--

A very good friend and hunting buddy had two NDs in a row with a pump shotgun while we were scooching through brush together. Fortunately he was in the front both times (the second time in front on purpose). He carried it one-handed with round in chamber and kept inadvertently wiping the safety off. Trigger would either catch on twigs or he hit it somehow. He blamed the gun and complained that he didn't know how he kept wiping the safety off. I told him empty chamber or I would beat him senseless with the gun.

At 19 years old I could nail five pop cans in four seconds with a Winchester pump. When on walkabout in grizzly country, I carried magazine full and hammer down on an empty chamber with safety off. IMO that is the right way to carry a pump if you're not dialed in and tracking hares or trying to flush grouse. People aren't perfect and this may save you when you're frozen, tired and stupid at the end of a long day of exploring.

My 686E doesn't have an auto-safety and I prefer it that way as well. Nothing else I use puts itself on safe, so I would rather it be my habit than the gun's.


I think I'd be fine on solo walkabout with charged chambers, on safe. If hunting in a group I might choose times to leave the action open and walk with charged chambers. I admit to not trusting the tang safeties (mind you I don't 'trust' any safety to keep myself and others safe). They are right where you might handle the gun and inadvertently wipe them off.

I don't have any exposed hammer doubles, but have an Encore that I think would be fine with a loaded chamber. The hammer doesn't rest on firing pin, and I doubt it would be easy to cock by accident.

Yep. No experience at all running doubles in the uplands with other people around. Lots of solo and duo walking with pumps and bolt action rifles. Lately mostly a target shooter. Not much hunting.

Getting a pump into action from an empty chamber is very quick. Might miss an opportunity or two, but probably wouldn't miss a few others. :-)

Growing up, doubles were things we thought only rich people owned. Getting my 686E was a nice moment.

What type of shooting will you be doing? Getting into Bird hunting?

Doing a little bit of daydreaming about grouse and pheasants, but I've wondered about double gun handling for a couple years now, including for dangerous game rifles.

Strangely, I never thought to just ask about it on the forums until now.

Some double rifles will discharge, with the safety on, if you drop them on the buttstock. An Appy I had got his arm blown off by a .500 Nitro Express when a client dropped it the year after i hunted with him. But in Africa, you'd better have rounds in the chambers if you're walking around. Control the direction it points. And unload it when you get back into the hunting car.

Shouldn't be much of an issue if you would be hunting over Pointing Dogs and only shot over walked up points. Over Flushers or walk ups, it will cost you opportunities.

Thanks for this. Most of my past grouse hunting was with a .22, though I did try shotgun a few times. No dogs. Shotguns were mostly for ducks.

One occasion I left my shotgun at camp and walked a couple dozen yards into the bush to take a dump. I think about four grouse watched me from the trees with my pants down. I went back and got the gun but couldn't find them again.

Good grief! I understand that dangerous game necessitates charged chambers and extreme carefulness. I guess this is an example of what happens when everything goes wrong. It's well and good to state 'always keep it pointed in a safe direction' and 'never put your finger in the trigger guard', but that doesn't cover tripping, falling, or other clumsiness.

A guy I know slightly once shot his African PH in the back as they were hunting Cape buffalo. Luckily the guy was using solids in a .458 Winchester, which of course made a lot smaller hole than an expanding bullet, and the client survived.

The rifle was a Model 70 Winchester with its vaunted 3-position safety, which once again suggests that the most important firearm "safety" is not located on the gun, but between the hunter's ears.

Have hunted over pointers where we hunt with the barrels open then close them when we have a point . Usually load and locked and awarness of barrel and partner position.

Mule Deer: Cautionary story! I agree that the most important safety is between your ears. Seems like the Model 70 bearer didn't get the basics right. That muzzle is the most important thing to me. If that's squared away, then at least an ND will likely only be an embarrassment.

While I don't trust any safety, I do like having ones that aren't easily wiped off. Trips and falls can happen too, and a good safety might come in handy then. Or an empty chamber.

I also like bolts and doubles because one can check for barrel obstructions pretty easily from the rear.


Sidepass: That sounds pretty safe.

I suppose the PH, later on, could draw some comfort from the fact he was hit with a .458 solid instead of a soft. What a good deal! 😉

Hunting pheasants in a group is probably the most dangerous hunting you will ever do. Keeping the line straight and everyone pointing muzzles in a safe direction. When someone drops to retrieve a bird they need to be disciplined & verbally let folks know as they rejoin. Better with good dogs but another moving obstacle to keep track of in the field.

I like action open with shells in or loaded safety on pointed slightly forward left at the ground where I could trip stick my finger in the trigger guard and slide the safety off alll 3 & still just shoot a hole in the ground. But I’m not who I worry about so I prefer to be at the end of a line.

Fast & furious dove hunting in the imperial valley from a fixed position in public fields I’ll have it loaded safety engaged pointed skyward - I have lately become verbally blunt with hunters headed into the middle of the field right before shooting time who put themselves at risk & cut down everyone’s shooting lanes. These days I’ll move to a safer field with fewer birds & hunters since I don’t trust idiots from LA who learned hunting from tv shows to be safe.

Had the safety of my 1896 W&S Screw Grip disengaged since it was slick and super tight, I had great difficulty engaging/disengaging the safety. For 2 decades, I walk around with shells in the chambers but the action open. Single handed, over my shoulder, cradled over my arm/s, the action stays open until a bird is in the air. It takes a split second to close it followed by bringing it to shoulder.

Alan