Give me your best loads and experiences - decided to dip my toes in the 6.5 magnum world.

Will it really outperform my 6.5x55 by a noticeable margin?

I’ve mainly used Retumbo and RL25 for 140’s at 3200 in my 264 Win Mag. It’s probably about 300+ FPS over my Swede with the same bullets. But my 264 has 4” more barrel than the Swede does and weighs a skosh more.

I like the old 264 myself. Didn’t really find it picky at all during a few different load work ups if I was using the powders slow enough to make speed.

570, RL33, Magnum, H1000, Retumbo, RL25 and 26, etc all make great speed from it with 140’s.

I load 57 grains of IMR 4350 with a 140 ballistic tip for the two Sako’s I have. They both have 26” barrels, both sub inch with that load. That load was sub inch in a pre-64 model 70 also. I load a lot of IMR 4350, my favorite powder. It’s usually 30 degrees to 70 where I hunt. I don’t have to worry about temperature sensitivity.

I have H4350, H4831 and RL26 available for powder, Berger 140 hunting VLD, 125 Partitions and 142 SMK.

A buddy has one, a Bartlein or Brux barreled M70, and loads AA MagPro for his best velocity and accuracy w/156 EOL Bergers @ 2900.

H4831 might not be a barn burner but it should be good for 3050-3100 with the 140's and work well with the 125's as well.

RL26 looks like your go to and I'd bet you'll get great speed and usually good accuracy with any bullet weight in the 264.

What rifle did you get?

A new production M70 Super Grade - we won't talk about the wood....

HA! Alright..

They are pretty nice rifles anyway, nice wood just makes them nicer to look at during periods of slow action!

264 Win.MAG has been the sleeper for way to many years its an excellent fast cartridge ,probably the one problem i have seen is wrong barrel twist should have been 1-8 or less ? when Mule Deer chimes in he is the 24 HR. CAMPFIRE help expert and more. and no 6.5x55 Swede is a great cartridge but its not as fast as 264 Win. mag.

If you’re limited to those powders, don’t waste your time.
Your .264 will perform just like your 6.5X55

The .264 demands the slowest burning powders.

H1000 ?
Magpro ?

MagPro, Ramshot Magnum, R33, Retumbo, Maybe event Ramshot LRT, all assuming you're going to be shooting 140+gn projectiles of course.

I will disagree regarding RL26 and H4831 as being a waste of time, especially with the 125 Partitions and H4831 combination and RL26 with the 140’s.

I will agree that slow powders work well in the 264, yet there’s a limit as to how slow.

I used to shoot IMR7828 and 120 gr Barnes X bullets in mine. Also shot H870 with 140 gr partitions. Last time around I shot IMR8133 with 140 gr accubonds. A fun varmint load is the 95 Hornady V max with RL19.
Of the OP's powder choices, I would try RL26

While the 264 does benefit from slower powders the statement that it would be just like the 6.5x55 is hyperbole.

Mathman, I totally agree. Even with powders that don't get the fastest velocities, the .264 is not a belted, oversize 6.5x55!

I've played extensively with two over the years, the first a genuine pre-'64 Model 70 Westerner with the original 26", 1-9 twist barrel and the second a special run of Ruger Hawkeye stainless/synthetic with a 24", 1-8 twist barrel.

The Model 70 came along before some of today's newer powders appeared, but its best load with 140-grain bullets (which I prefer in the .264) was 69.0 grains Ramshot Magnum, for 3225 fps and sub-MOA accuracy. With the 130-grain Barnes TSX the best load was 66.5 Accurate Magpro, for 3311 fps and similar accuracy.

In the Ruger the best loads were the 130-grain Nosler AccuBond and 70.0 grains of Ramshot Magnum, for 3256 fps and groups averaging around .6 inch; the 140-grain bullets the powder charge that got the fastest velocities was 63.5 grains of RL-25 for around 3100 fps, and sub-MOA accuracy with several bullets.

But if I didn't have those powders would certainly be willing to experiment with what the OP has, especially H4831 and RL-26 with 140s, and H4350 with lighter bullets.

3200 with 120-130 grain bullets isn’t 3200+ with 140 grainers.

3200 with the light bullets is certainly attainable one of the powders the OP has.

I’ve done extensive testing with eight different powders in the 264 Winchester and just about every 6.5 bullet manufactured. If you want to get 3200 to 3300 ft./s with a 140 grain class bullet, you’ll need to be using the slowest powders available.

Find some RL-33 or N570

Velocity trued to 3230 at 1 mile.





550 yard group at development. Velocity 3100 trued at 1 mile

US869 is what I settled on - and it's right there at the bottom of the burn rate chart.

80 gr with push a 130 gr TGK to 3,300 fps
77 gr gets to 3,100 fps with 139-143 gr bullets

Elevation? Temps?

US-869 works well. I've also used WC-872. Temp sensitive and dirty but good velocity

5250 altitude.

What is your barrel length?

What manuals are y’all going by for these loads?

I run 140gr npt's to an easy 2800 fps in my hunting weight 6.5x55 Swede with RL-22 and 25" barrel, great combo, 160gr Woodleigh's run 3000 fps with RL-33 in a 26" barreled pre-64 264 WM, that said, and you may want to do the same, i went to midwayusa and ordered several boxes of 140gr Speer Grand Slams on the cheap, you can get them there or directly from Speer's website, thought was if Woodleigh never gets back up and going or i'm long ran out of their 160's, i'll happliy hunt all manner of light big game with those 140 Grand Slams at 3000 fps and live happily ever after.

We all have specialized cartridge/bullet/scoped rifle setups for large, small, dangerous, near or far, but imho a point and shoot rig to 400 long yards with 140's at 3K will get a lot done for me in a general game hunting rifle, good luck, it's a great and fun classic cartridge.

Mines been a great shooter with 140 ABs just a touch over 3200..

You've got that one dialed in and ready Buddy, i'd just sit the 140gr SGS on top of the same charge of RL-33 as the 160 Woodies and see where they landed, i dont think they'd be as tough as your 140gr AB's so i wouldn't be looking for 3200 with them.

I used to use 7828ssc in mine with success, before I "discovered" RL-33.
I've only ever shot 130 AB's out of mine.
Taken plenty of big deer with them, never recovered a bullet.
No hesitation taking a elk with that combination either.
One of my easiest rifles to load for, a pre64 Westerner with original 26" SS barrel.

26”




When you decide to own a .264 Winchester Magnum, you’ve just signed up to be your own ballistician.

Until recently, data was not available for the newer, slow-burning powders.

And wasn't for years. There wasn't any data for Ramshot Magnum when I started using it in the .264 in 2004....

Did you use 7 Rem Data to start? Just wondering. That has always been why I’ve liked have QL. Maybe not perfect but I could always figure out a place to start.

It was shortly before before QL appeared, if I remember correctly.

Used a variety of techniques, including measuring case-head expansion (which I'd already started to distrust, but can provide approximate info if used correctly). But the major "formula" was the one I worked out by crunching numbers from various pressure-tested sources: Any increase or decrease in bore area results in about 1/4 as much potential increase/decrease in velocity at the SAME pressure, using the same bullet weights. Used this by comparing the .264 with the extremely common data for the 7mm Remington Magnum.

Also looked at what data was available with other powders, and between the two comparisons came up with approximately how much velocity the .264 should be capable of with various bullet weights. Had already used this technique for coming up with .300 WSM data for an article in HANDLOADER, before any pressure-tested data appeared--and when tested data appeared my powder charges only varied by at most a grain of powder, and more often within a half-grain.

This includes the presently published data for Ramshot Magnum in the .264.

125 partitions at 3300 fps with 7828. Worked it up 25+ year ago. Always drops them where they stand

Winchester M70 Extreme Weather:










Sledge Hammer 117gn @3230fps:

I once bought a used push feed M70 with a 24" barrel. It was a solid 1-1/2 to 2" rifle with everything I ever shot through it. Just for fun one day I tried the now discontinued Sierra 85 gr HP working up to a case full of H4831. Bugholes @ 3600+ fps for 3 or 4 shots until the barrel got hot. Spread over time for cooling, 5 or 10 shots would go into 1/4" or so. It was fun for a while, but not terribly useful except for the odd groundhog inside 300 yds. The Swift was a better killer to longer ranges burning about 1/2 the powder. One day someone had to have that .264 more than I wanted to keep it, so it went DTFR. Never really had the urge to buy another except for a limited run Ruger 77 tanger that remained NIB in the safe for 20 years. Someone just had to own that one too after it became somewhat rare & collectible.

I bought one of these about 4 years ago and it's been a nightmare trying to find an accurate load. Half a dozen different powders and bullets and the only combo which I could get MOA results was with a 140 VLD and Retumbo.

All other loads with Nosier, Sierra and Hornady bullets were 1-1/2 MOA at best with some 3-4 MOA.

Barrel has a lot of tooling marks and needs to be replaced but just haven't done it yet. Most frustrating rifle I can remember in a long time.

But it is pretty....

Before you scrap that barrel, try the Tubbs bullets on it. It’ll be worth the 35 bucks to know if the barrel is shot or can be uniformed and smoothed out. They have saved a few barrels just like what you mentioned.

Love the .264. Old school cool that was handicapped by powders and twists. This one is a Howa 1500 with a Preferred barrels tube with a 7 1/2 twist. Puts the 147 ELDM into the group shown at 200 yds. It put this cow elk down with zero fanfare, in fact it was a little anticlimactic. A one and done deal.

^^^^^^^^^Good stuff Mbogo, that young cow has visions dancing in my head of fried loin with a skillet of potatoes, onions and jalapenos, and go ahead and dump a skillet of gravy from the drippings all over everything!

For Gunner…..

WOW

Lord help us, i just finished mug number three of coffee over four big brown farm eggs sitting on a slice of toast made from Wifes homemade rising sourdough wheat bread slathered with peanut butter, that slab of meat is making me hungry again LOL!

Reading my mind.

Nice shooting. The old 264 still has it going on.

Gunner, how long has it been since anyone was this mean to you? Made me drool too....mb

I guess I’ll keep being mean😁
This is known as Idaho surf and turf. The interesting thing about this elk was when I was taking her apart I noticed the one hind quarter was off colored. When I took the sirloin tip off, I realized she had a busted leg. The femur was totally broken in half with chunks floating around. I had no idea anything was amiss when I shot her. She was leading three others and did not so any signs of being injured. There’s no way the bone would have knitted with those chunks missing but she was still making a good living. That is until that ELDM reduced her to my freezer. It didn’t affect the meat either, she’s dang good eating.

Have at it mbogo does make a guy hungry and love those kind of photos....mb

Damn right Big B.

LOL MB, not very often ; ]

Mbogo, that looks great!

Great and timely thread, last night late in a pile of trade bait was a 10lb factory sealed plastic bag from Hodgdon in a cardboard box, it's full of H-870 powder, also got 3K Fed-215 primers, any guesses what those 140gr Grand Slams will be sitting on top of? LOL

I think 75gr will be a good spot to start with chrono, more old school hunting this season on the way with pre-64 Westerner and gloss Redfield 4-12x40 AO glass.

Run that over a chrono. It shouldn't be anywhere near 3200fps even with a 30" tube.

And what should it be great Swami?

3,100 fps isn't too hard for a 139-143 gr bullet in a .264 in a 24" barrel.

another 6" * 20 fps = 120 fps. 3,100 + 120 = 3,220 fps. It pans out for me.

I got $20 on rcamuglia that it's a chrono'ed velocity.

"Truing" is the first hint. Quickload projections are the second. I'll shoot some tomorrow through a 25.5" Benchmark over a 35P and get back to you.

You do that BB. I've shot my 25" bbl .264 Win Mag over my O-35, so I'm not guessing.

77.0 gr US-869 gets you there.

Yeah, I'll be interested in your results, IIRC 74 of h870 with a 140 npt was 3030fps in my 700 Ltd classic with a 24" barrel. Started working on an 8lb jug of T5050 for my 7mm rem mag the other day. Sure like slow burners...mb

Thanks MB, yes, slow burners need only apply in 264 WM, my 26" Westerner went 3241 fps with 78.5gr H-870 under the 140gr Speer Grand Slam, Fed-215's with COL of 3.300 inch, went to max to check brass/primer relation, all looked good, easy extraction, but settled on 77gr for 3189 fps, a lower velocity node was found there, not after max with these bullets, this speed will be plenty for what i want to do for sub 300 yard whitetail hunting.

Serious load, if you will for heavier big game is the 160gr Woodleigh protected points at 3000 fps over RL-33, i'll shoot these 77gr loads for groups when the winds calm.

Personally, I eventually found the 26 Nosler solves all the supposed "problems" of the .264--with no more perceivable throat erosion. Generally at least 1000 rounds can be fired before any noticeable reduction in accuracy--and it's easy to get 3300 with 140s in a 26" barrel.

But also eventually found out either the 6.5 PRC or .270 Winchester work well for my purposes, with noticeably less recoil, a wider range of excellent powder choices--and a similar reduction in other hassles, such as finding brass, especially good brass.

Of course, the basic definition of "rifle loony" will always mean SOME of us will be determined to champion cartridges such as the .264, which never became very popular in the first place, decades ago.

But am always interested in new variations on flogging a dead horse....

I used up a couple pounds of H870 in the 264 and in the 7mm STW back around 2001-2002.

With zero satisfactory results. The burn rate was just too slow for either of the rifles mentioned. I could not get enough in the case to make acceptable velocity. While I do not have any records of the trials, I do remember stuffing 99 gr of H870 into an STW case with a 160 gr bullet. It did not make 3000 fps.

The 264 (my rifle anyway) behaved in the same manner with H870 and a 140 gr bullet. Low velocity and powder granules in the barrel and action.

I had pretty decent luck with H1000 in both rifles. 67 gr H1000 gave 3200 fps with a 140 partition and 3000 fps with the 140 gr Sierra spitzer boat tail in the 264.

67 gr H1000 with the Sierra was my typical load, when I was not burning 120 gr or 100 gr ballistic tips over H4831 at 3000 fps.

John,
I always chuckle at the discussions of ctg A vs ctg B. Reminds me of the King Kong vs Godzilla comparisons.

I suggest deciding on the velocity desired for a specific bullet. For example it is pretty well established that a 7mm 175 tends to shoot accurately at around 2950 fps. So why not select a chambering that will give that level of performance and if it can be done with more readily available powders then so much the better.

I have a buddy who wants to move those 175’s much faster but he is stuck with a minimum of 26” inch barrels and hard to find powders and pretty big cases.

Me, I would get a 7mm PRC.

With rangefinders and dialing that 2950 is perfect.
R

Rick,

Well, yeah!

Part of the deal here is that Campfire members average around 65-70 years old, which has been demonstrated by some informal surveys over the years. This is the generation that grew up when the MAGIC in big game cartridges was due to increasing muzzle velocity--which is why they argue about 100 fps in MV, and also firmly believe in older cartridges that supposedly get another 100 fps, or whatever. Which of course was supposed to provide more "killing power" at any range, even when the difference dwindled to much less than 100 fps way out there, where such rounds were supposed to work their magic.

But such cartridges often resulted in powder problems--especially when the shooters insist on using older powders they grew up with. Yet they still believe there's always a solution, somewhere--even when they've beaten their head against all of this for years.

Of course, you and I are from the same generation, but I eventually lost interest in beating my head against a dead horse. Which is why after considerable experimentation I tend to use more "friendly" rounds, whether the .270 Winchester or 6.5 PRC.

But, but... a pre64 M70 Westerner with a 26" barrel in 264 is just so cool.... I covet one...

Hahaha. I don’t see anyone here “championing” the .264 Winchester, but simply trying to help the OP answer his questions. The OP’s thread title is literally “.264 win Mag”

I’ve had a .264 Winchester long before the 6.5 Craze or the introduction of the 26 Nosler. I spent a lot of time getting help from guys who knew how to make it perform to its potential. I’ve spent a lot of time and components testing powders and projectiles to find what I considered the best load combination.

If I was just now getting into the 6.5mm Magnum business, I wouldn’t choose the .264 Winchester because of all of the new chamberings that are easier to work with. You’ve stated before that updated load data with newer powders has been ignored.





Again, the OP is asking specifically about the .264 Winchester and not any 7mm cartridges

I had a .264 WM barrel put on a Ruger #1 about 28 years ago. This was before there were all the current 6.5s obviously. I shot it this year and it still shoots small groups with Hornady 140g SP. Would I have picked the .264 if the others were available then I don't know, but I do know I have a lot of brass and good loads for it so will stick with it until I shoot it out.

Exactly. Brass, nice die set, powders applicable.

I’m not moving into another chambering and buying a bunch of brass and dies for a modest gain. I’m quite happy with accuracy and velocity the old, decrepit .264 Winchester Magnum spits out.

😁

The 264 is the gun I couldn’t make myself buy but wished I had. Bad press and to much reading of the experts. A couple of buddies had them and made some very long shots back in the hold and hope days.

Never had one but wanted one for years. I was always worried about barrel longevity. Looking for 6.5-06 these days.

I'm waiting on somebody to revive the .256 Newton, the original 6.5mm barnburner. But I won't hold my breath!

Hunted with a very accurate custom 6.5-06 for several years, which would average around 3-inch groups with it's best load--at 600 yards.

A fine round though since it's a wildcat (or at least has been since A-Square went out of business) there are some quirks to handloading it. I mention them in Chapter 29 of the first Big Book of Gun Gack, "The 6.5-.284 and 6.5-06."

The 6.5 PRC is even closer to a short-action 6.5-06 than the 6.5/.284, and has several advantages, both in factory ammo and brass.

My Grandfather had one! He loved it until it was stolen out of the gun rack in his GMC

I still have the original ammo!

Thanks for the information. I'll check out chapter 29.

David

Same here. I didn’t find it all that fussy either once I realized 25, Retumbo, 33, etc really make it run.

Mule Deer,
I'm having a .264 Win mag assembled this winter. I was wondering if there is any evidence of inconsistent pressures with this cartridge like there is with the 7mm Rem Mag?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us here on the fire!
Sam

sambo3006,

No, the .264 doesn't seem to have that quirk! It's also easy to get to shoot well, if the brass is of consistent dimensions, especially the neck thickness--which tends to be a problem with 21st-century Winchester brass. That's why I used necked-down 7mm Remington Norma cases in my first .264 in 2004: Their necks were very uniform, and they worked very well.

The major problem I've seen with the .264 is short barrel life, as several people have already mentioned. This is caused not just by the large powder charges compared to the bore-size, but the shoulder angle directing more of the hot powder gas into the rear of the rifling.

The .243 Winchester is also known for short barrel life, due to its combination of shoulder angle and a short neck--which is why David Tubb developed his 6XC cartridge. It has only slightly less powder capacity than the .243, but a steeper shoulder and far longer neck--which extends barrel life considerably.

Many of the commercial hunting cartridges introduced in the 1950s and 60s had a combination of shoulder angle and short neck similar to the .243's and .264's, one reason many more recently introduced rounds have steeper shoulders, and often longer necks. Both tend to extend barrel life. The 26 Nosler's barrel life tends to be at least as long as the .264's, despite its much larger powder capacity, because its sharper 35-degree shoulder tends to direct more powder gas inside the neck, rather than into the bore in front of the case mouth.

Whether all of that is relevant to hunters who may only shoot a rifle a few hundred times in their life is another question! But it is a factor that's changed case design over the past half-century.

Thank you MD!
I have also considered the 6.5-270 Weatherby due to it's longer neck and shoulder angle configuration. I just don't think the increase in barrel life is worth it for the amount of rounds I shoot a given rifle per year. Also, I'm using an action that was trued by Longrifles Inc and therefore they are my choice for the barrel installation. They do not include this cartridge on their reamer list.

Nosler and Norma both make 264 Win mag brass, but it's kind of pricey.

I'm glad I bought a few hundred pieces before the prices skyrocketed.

If you need .264 brass, just neck down 7mm Rem Mag. WIth a factory chamber you won't need to turn / ream necks. With a custom chamber, you might already have to even with .264 brass.

Yep, the 264 Win mag is like the old school front engine nitro dragsters, burns rubber all the way down the quarter mile track, they'll both get you there, but, newer offering are more efficient, the 140gr Grand Slams are running 3200 fps and 3 inches high at 100, ready for some old school white tail hunting, blast, flames, dirty bore and all, it'll be great!

The old 4-12x40 AO gloss Redfield is still plenty clear for dawn/dusk hunting, it's AO is marked in yards and meters, period correct glass that right at home on the 26" barreled Westerner.

Yeah buddy! You aren't leaving nothing behind there!

^^^^^^^^^Going to be some fun stuff my Friend.