Where will it be chambered in factory rifles?

Google was useless as usual.

Has it even been officially announced other than the saami certification?

This guy had one made -

https://backfire.tv/7mm-prc/

Says so in the link you posted.

Looking at the projected data, A 180 grain Hornady ELD-x is just entering the tran-sonic zone at 1.3 mach at 1400 yards. Looks good to me.

Read the linked article as well as couple others in the last couple weeks. Promised myself that I wasn't gonna do another build, and I'm gonna stick to that. 7PRC will find a home in the market, but I'm pretty well set in the 7mm department with a couple 280s, a couple 280AIs, a 7 SAUM and a 28 Nosler.

“Hornady revealed in an interview on the Backfire Youtube channel that they plan to officially announce the cartridge on October 26, 2022 at the NASGW Expo.”

I’ll work on clarity; my wife tells me I struggle on occasion.

Should be ballistic magic....

I think you should talk to Hornady and SAAMI about the B29. Think of all the money you'll make.

I'm thinking it would a modernization of the 7mm RM (a personal favorite), updated shoulder and no belt. Much like the 300 WM could use, no belt, 30 degree shoulder, .308 neck. Not necessarily better ballistically, just a better case design. Never liked the way belts stack up and take room in a magazine.

Yeah, I always hated that too. Knowing I could get 3 and 1/8 cartridges in the mag box vs 3. Really chaps my hide!!! Even in my pre 64's that hold 4 and my sporter m1917 that holds 5 magnum cartridges. If I could only get 5 and a 1/4 rounds in, that would be the schidt right there..

I can’t wait to neck down that case to 6.5, And have a “Real” 6.5 PRC

It'll totally kick the 7 WSM's azz . . .

And walk all over the 7 RSAUM..

If it's ballistic magic why would you need more than one shot ?

And likely be unobtanium for quite some time just like everything else . . . . . . .

I love new stuff, probably more than most, but I think I just waited 7-8 months to get ADG 6.5 PRC brass..

I do think Hornady will have a winner if they can supply enough components to keep one fed. I already have a 7 Mashburn, 7 WSM, a couple 280's, so it doesn't really do anything the others don't, but to a fella that wants a factory gun, set up right from the get go, with good factory ammo it'll likely be a winner.

That would be a damn fine cartridge in .277".




GR

And something new that Hornady will focus on to the detriment of more obscure cases that they jumped on when they became "hot" such as the 9.3 x 62 and 7 SAUM, etc. So we wait "forever" up here in Canada for even "regular" and familiar cartridge cases - till the next order goes out from a supplier that takes over a year to be partially filled! So I'm gonna wait "forever" for a rifle in 7 PRC and forever more after that for Hornadys ammo so I can create some handloads - oh wait (some more) for the dies, etc, while my .458 Mag is languishing for new components - I DON"T THINK SO !!!!!!

The hoarding that's going on now is the result of fear and greed! And just add to that a "new" 7 mm creation the NOBODY needs! Rant over!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

??? sarcasm??? lol

And what does it offer that you can’t find in an existing cartridge?

Like that it's a std. length action cartridge, w/o the rebated rim of the shoe-horned SA 6.8 Western.




GR

Ok, if you're going to take that approach, please tell me the benefit of a belt on any modern cartridge, I understand why it was designed for the 300 H&H but beyond that???

Here we go again!

I think it'll benefit from the standard chamber with correct twist, and suited to heavy bullets. About all of the other 7's in that category have to be built.

Not saying it'll change the world as we know it, but it'll do the same thing as a 300 PRC does with a 300 Win. Up until the PRC we basically had to build them and chamber them to work with the longer bullets and add faster twist barrels. The PRC's are a factory option without too much compromise.

Do the insecure Creedmoor bashers hate PRCs too?

All it is really designed to do is separate you from your money rfn....mb

I (and I would argue, the majority of folks) have far more use for a 7mm designed properly in all respects, than for a .458 Win. Mag.

Not many can deny that but it won’t keep the bitching about it below a dull roar…

I have 2 7mm weatherby, a 280AI and either 2 or 3 7mm Rem mags, but will own one of these in the near future. I was already planning on necking up a 6.5 PRC to 7mm and put it in a long action. This seems more better. If there is quality brass, the other 7mm mags will go away.

I'm of the opinion 7mm projectiles are Goldilocks for NA game. Hopefully Hornady can get the 7mmPRC off the ground like they did for 6.5C; a difficult task during an ammo and component storage....

True.
And true.

The belt doesn't hurt a damn thing. Is there a benefit to having one, no. IF you buy a good rifle, such as the ones I gave examples of, feeding will be excellent and you will have no other issues regarding the belt. Again, IF you say you can get more cartridges in the magazine box with a non belted magnum, like this 7PRC, you are smoking something. Really grasping at straws there. To be exact, the body diameter at the base is the same as the diameter of the belt on the 7mm rem mag, 7 mashburn, 7 WBY, 7 Practical etc.. etc.. So there is no gain or increase in the amount of cartridges you can put in the magazine. Also the feeding tendencies of these new cartridges is not as slick/smooth, due to having almost no body taper. When the WSM's first came out, there were many complaining about that, some companies struggled to get cartridges to feed properly, but companies keep producing them that way. Again, if you, "Never liked the way belts stack up and take room in a magazine", then it may be more of a rifle problem, because I've never experienced anything like that to complain about. Now, I'm in agreement with some of the posters here, that ammo manufactures should be focusing on what they already have out there and not waste precious resources on some new fad that may or may not be around too long. Only because right now we are dealing with component shortages, just the fu cked up times we live in. We've all seen the demise of a lot of other short fat cartridges because guys try them and find out their trusty ol 7mm rem mag does just as well. There was not really a lot to be gained by these new fandangled cartridges, based off of the century old 404 Jeffry parent case, except you could get long magnum performance from a short action rifle. That was the biggest selling point, and still stands as a good reason to go short/fat.
Not saying the 7 PRC is one of those. As per usual, Hornady does their homework and this one is twisted right (1 in 8"). That is where the WSM's failed to be superior right out of the gate. Winchester was stuck on old school mentality when it came to twist rates and such. Now we have new high BC bullets everyone wants to sling, so the PRC will have its place if you like using hybrid bullets and shooting way out there. No issues there, but don't tout it as being superior for reasons such as it doesn't have a belt. The PRC will have its place/niche for sure. The question is how many of you actually shoot that type of discipline to take advantage of such a cartridge?
Most all here are hunters, myself included. I'll bring up the thread about how many people actually shoot big game animals consistently past 400 yards, in the gunwriters forum here, that said they do not shoot at game animals at that distance. I don't have the exact numbers, but the majority there said they shoot most of theirs at less than 400 yards. So there is that.

A funny story to share: I go to the local range quite often and I see guys with some of these new PRC's and the new Winchester 6.8 Western. Many of these rifles chambered as such are extreme lightweights as well. A lot of these guys shooting 2" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. Kind of (exactly) like the guy I shot next to last year, at my clubs range, that was using a 338 Lapua magnum, all decked out. He was bragging that he was going to take a bear in the Hells canyon area and the shots would be over 600 yards. I got a kick out of his girlfriend watching through her spotting scope and ribbing him because, "that guy just shot better than you did with irons".. FN cracked me up.. Just because they are touted as being "long range" rifles, does not mean everyone can take advantage of those benefits. You can try for sure, but if you don't have the skill, you might as well be slinging bullets from more traditional cartridges..

Let's put this in a little more perspective for you:

I don't need no new-fangled Model T, my horse and buggy does the job just fine. What do you think you're some kind of professional race car driver?

7mm Magnum performance with the hassle of a belted magnum.

Std. length action cartridge, long loaded to keep the bullet out of the powder, 78 gr. of water, necked down to .277... think it's what the 6.8 Western should have been.

Won't be buyin' a 6.8W because of it, but would take a very hard look at a M70 chambered in .277 PRC.




GR

When the 375 Ruger was first introduced I predicted it would be the parent case for a bunch of 21st century cartridges. The 7mm PRC is just the latest example and a much welcomed one. I've had a Savage 110 action and stock waiting for a 7mm PRC barrel for over 3 years now.

I predict the 7mm PRC will soon be the top selling 7mm cartridge. 2 years, maybe 3.

Belts on a cartridge case are superfluous, they had their purpose but are generally useless for modern cartridges.  As much as the 7mmRM is a personal favorite, a beltless version would be my preference.  The 300 WM could use an updating as well, remove the belt, lengthen the neck and clean up the shoulder.  I do like new and improved but I'm also not against things that work.  If 7mm PRC ammo became readily available, I'd build one tomorrow but I'll wait for the ammo to show up on retail shelves.  On the other hand, I've tried most of the 6.5s and I'll keep my 270 Win as it was designed right from the start.  I do prefer my shots on game to be under 300 yards, under 200 even better, but that doesn't mean that I don't like accurate rifles and well designed cartridge cases.

So who's gonna be the first 'Fire member to build one on a Rem 700 / 700 clone?

They might not have to.

I’ll be honest, I want one! I’m going to give it a year or two though and see how am and brass availability is before I buy one though.

My favorite caliber has always been .284/7mm. I’ve sold 2 rifles my entire life a 7mm-08, and 7 WSM, regretted it tremendously. I did eventually replace the 7mm-08, but never the 7WSM. I think the 7 PRC will be my replacement 15 years later.

Given you have to use a long action to build one, and it’s a bit shorter and fatter than a 280AI but gets the same velocity …. It may help with OAL, but the reality is all those longer bullets are seated to far down even in the 280ai…

So - if your smith has a good 280AI reamer, it will probably mirror what the 7 PRC will do accuracy wise…

True.

I expect that several manufacturers will be marketing them shortly after the 'official' release by Hornady. From a clone standpoint, I suspect Christensen will have a couple offerings. Other than that, Savage will likely have a few variations, themselves. Probably a lot of 'customs' and 'semi-customs will be offered, as well.

FWIW, I spoke to Manson a week or so ago about getting a reamer and gages. I was told that delivery would be sometime in late Sept. I was told I was the 3rd call of the day and the backorders for the 7PRC are piling up.

.300 PRC?

Keep coming back to a 1:8 twist/long throated .270 Win., with 150 gr. ABLR's.

At ~ 3K fps at the muzzle, it would be a 600 yard elk, and 750 yd. deer rifle.

Probably about the same w/ the 165 gr. ABLR as well.




GR

Close, would be happy though with the 300 with the belt turned off, caliber neck and 30 degree shoulder. PRC is ''fatter" and has a bit more recoil.

BSA, you're a pretty inquisitive tuner of hunting rifles. Your bedding jobs and handloading is first-rate stuff. I know you're much more capable of investigating something, before you cast judgement.

Anyhow, this excellent 338 rcm/300rcm family of cartridges are an honest 4 rounds down kinda gun, in the ruger hawkeye platform. Ruger missed the mark on a very important, marketable advantage over the wsm's: 4 rounds down

But nah man, they(ruger/hornady) had to bllsht the collective intelligence of riflemen by claiming these cartridges were the equivalent of the 338 win mag in a short barrel. Which we all know was bllsht. The bllsht continued with some of the mediocre, cheerleader, yes-men gunwriter shills.

If a sub-MOA 7mm Weatherby won’t kill it, it’s not on this continent. The PRC’s might be more “inherently” accurate, whatever that is…. Have a ball!

It's likely less about terminal ballistics and more about the rifle itself combined with and advantage in "in flight" ballistics available. Large or small.

COAL and twist being set up for the 180 and larger bullets en vogue etc.

A pretty good overview - https://www.loaddevelopment.com/7mm-prc-hornadys-new-7mm/

This paragraph, quoted from the referenced article, is what has me on the fence . . . as I have a 7 SAUM on a Tikka T3.

"7mm PRC vs 7mm SAUM

Two very evenly matched cartridges, if you already have one, it would not be worth it to get the other as well. The 7mm PRC has a lower 30 degree shoulder angle, so it may feed from a magazine easier than the 7mm SAUM, and the 7mm PRC has very slightly more powder capacity so offering very slight muzzle velocity advantages, but hardly noticeable. With Hornady behind it, we should also see more available components and ammo for the 7mm PRC compared to the scarce 7mm SAUM. The 7mm PRC is basically the 7mm SAUM ballistic twin that get better factory support and marketing behind it."

WiFowler,

Whoever wrote that article is FOS in more than one way, but the biggie is the 7mm PRC has considerably more powder room than the 7mm SAUM, because its case body is the same diameter as the SAUM but almost .3" longer. (Also the 7mm PRC's shoulder angle is not "lower"--whatever that means--than the 7mm SAUM's, since they both have 30-degree shoulders.)

I am quite familiar with the 7mm SAUM, having handloaded for it for several years after it appeared, and took a bunch of big game with it from South Texas to northern Quebec. I never could get more than than around 2875 fps from 175-grain bullets with the best powders from my stainless/synthetic 700's 24-inch barrel, and the 7mm PRC is indeed capable of just about 3000 with the 180-grain Hornady ELDM--which has an extremely high BC.

I posted this in the action thread down in the custom rifles forum, but it probably belongs here also - for ease of reference.
Long action:
[

It’s definitely enticing with it being correct across the board.

7mm PRC? Cute little bugger.

Blasphemy! Say it ain't so!

John,

It seems to me that the 7 PRC is closer in capacity and performance to the 7 WSM than the 7 SAUM.

Yep!

Hornady's 180 ELD-M factory load is also one of the most wind-resistant I've ever fired--along with being VERY accurate. Spent a couple days last week shooting a bunch of it with several other gun writers at ranges out to 1800 yards. Unfortunately, can't reveal any more details for a couple of months....

That's great news!

I've been shooting that bullet for a bit over 5 years, into game like bull moose at a couple dozen yards and on steel beyond 2000. I've shot it from a bunch of 7 WSM, 7 RM, and 7-08 rifles, and I agree with you; it simply cuts through wind like a warm knife through butter. IME, it has worked well on game, and it's also one of the easiest bullets to get to shoot in a variety of rifles that I've worked with. Great bullet, and it'll be an asset in well-made factory ammo.

That’s great stuff. Who’dve guessed a wicked high BC from a 7 Rem sorta capacity cartridge with a well thought out throat and twist would kick butt

Who will be the first to offer a prefit?

Onr of the reasons winchester said they did the Western on a 6.8 and not a 7mm is they wanted a round that had heaviest bullets and highest BC in a short action. The 7mm heaviest and most higher bc bullets would not get decent velocity nor fit in a short action mag. At least that was in a gunsandammo article. The 7PRC seems to prove this out as Hornady went with more case capacity and longer oal and looks wicked with 180s. Makes perfect sense to me and looks like good round. So we now have “modern” incarnations of 24, 26, 27, 30 cal. When do we get the 25;)

Lou

Amazing, ain't it?

Mule Deer

I know can’t say anything about the new cartridge but was this testing with the new 700 model? Can share anything
there or off limits too?

Lou

Everything tested last week--including rifles and scopes--is top-secret until October

I figured


Thanks

Lou

Case capacity anyone? Full of water preferably.

Reported to be 78 gr. H2O.




GR

I've heard 78 grains Bill. Seems like a well designed rewrap of the 7 Rem Mag to me.

The 7RM was reported at 82 gr.

So a little more efficient.

Make a great .277.




GR

WiFowler: I'm not going to try to convince anyone that we "need" more new cartridges to fill some non-existent void in our shooting spectrum, the 30-06 pretty much covers anything we may need, it's done it all, but building new rifles and tweaking existing cartridges to make them just a little "better" is what entertains me and that's good enough for me.

All of this really astounds me. Warren Page had a 7 mm Mashburn in 1952 that would drive a 175 gr bullet at 3000+ within 65K pressures. His did then and mine does now. I have 2, one has a 1:8 twist barrel on it. The other a standard 1:9.5. Either will shoot/kill about any kind of game up to about 1200 lbs to as far as I what to try the shot.

Reinventing the wheel I guess, just because you can.

Ha. Go look up history on 285 okh. 7mm with long seated 180 western tool and copper….

Lou

Yep - the 7 Mashburn is so much more practical because brass and loaded ammo is readily available from large makers, and can be purchased everywhere.

Or not.

Real men want at least a 40mm PRC. Minimum.

Right next to the rifles so chambered!

So the rumor on the street is that Sig has a 7MM Fury on its way.

True that!

But, the Mashburn is cool.. If you are a reloader, most are, then not a problem. I would guess a guy could barrel up a Mashburn at a reasonable cost. Plus, if it is what I want, what is the problem. The 285 was also cool, but it did not perform as well as the Mashburn. Plus Page used a 22" barrel.

Nothing, but the 7 PRC will be the easy button to get you to about the same place.

I've always been tight, must be getting old too.


Once, a press release and salesma....gun writer's😉 "article"
would have had me at least pining for one.

There are 2 7mags in the basement, one 300Win. Pretty sure
none have hunted since 2007. 243, 308, Swede, '06 have
done everything needed.


A 6.5 PRC could maybe find a home if it was light, used, and came
like the Swede did. Dies, brass, bullets.
Oh, most importantly. Cheap.

Not a problem? It's still a lot more work to "be cool" while providing nothing that other factory loaded 7mm's already provide (without a belt).

Regardless, my response was to the guy thinking it's a reinvention of the wheel, which it won't be given factory rifles, ammo and brass.

My dear friend Dober, who started the 7mm Mashburn mania here, has had one for many decades. I've shot his. I completely appreciate his sentimentality for it given he had a personal relationship with Bob Hagel. But he's also extremely clear-eyed that it's that relationship that makes the round special to him. Without that he'd likely sooner shoot a big 7 loaded by a factory.

For me, pass the 308 or 270. I've got no use for a "Big 7."

Never even fired a 270.
Had one for several years, bought cheap, passed on to a kid.



But a fast twisted one has been on my mind.
Stupid. I'd never begin to have use for the bullets that benefit
from it. But........?😉

If I were building a 270 from scratch I'd just twist it at 1-9 and forget the rest...

I’ve never fired a .270 Win either. I won a Tikka T3 camo stainless .270 WSM several years ago and sold it before I ever scoped it or fired it. I just arbitrarily decided to jump up 0.007” and stick with my 7mm’s, etc.

A long time ago the Military determined that a ~ 150 gr. bullet, at ~ 2800 fps., was an optimum balance between rapid marksmanship skill development and 500 yd. effectiveness for the average adult - .30-06 M2 ball -> 7.62x51 NATO M80 ball.

... this would also include the .270 Win.




GR

Aside from being a factory round, the 7mm SPC has several of the present-day touches that make some newer cartridges tend to shoot more accurately, including:

1) A shorter powder column, which tends to result in more consistent pressures and hence muzzle velocities.

2) A 30-degree shoulder, which on shorter fatter cartridges from the 6mm PPC on up tends to result in more consistent muzzle velocities.

3) A parallel throat, just barely above bullet diameter, which tends to keep bullets straighter as they move from the case neck to the rifling.

The first two have been demonstrated many times in piezo pressure labs. The third has been demonstrated many times on targets.

This doesn't mean the average hunter should rush out and buy a 7mm PRC when they already have a good 7mm magnum (even one with a belt). However, it does mean that for certain purposes sheer muzzle velocity is not everything, even though that's still what many hunters believe.

One other "advantage" for any 7mm magnum, even older ones, is today's powders, many of which are far less temperature sensitive, and include a decoppering agent. These tend to produce more consistent accuracy over a range of shooting conditions. I know this partly because my present 7mm magnum is the "old" belted Remington, though chambered in one of the new "affordable" rifles that many traditional hunters love to hate, a Mauser M18. But it performs best with some newer powders like those described above--and also with some newer bullets.

I’m holding off building my next setup with the anticipation a 7 PRC will come to fruition late this year. I’m wanting a 22” barrel, threaded to launch 180s suppressed.


I know, I know, a 7mm RM is close but I’m willing to take a stab with the new hot rod if brass will be available.

Hmm. I have a 8.5 twist Bartlein sitting on the shelf. May have to look into this further...

That's exactly how I ended up with my first one. I kinda like it since it uses easy to source 300 Win Mag brass and forming isn't a big deal, the new PRC does just about the same, but uses box ammo.


I'd agree with that, and I'd bet Dober and even Bob said the same thing, if you want easy, stick with a plain old 7 Rem Mag, but if you wanted a bit extra set up for your desired bullets the Mashburn is pretty easy. I am a sentimental user of the cartridge for about the same reasons, Hagels writing and guys like Dober and Bob pushing on it a little.

Better look out, I am thinking Dober might be the first one suppressing his Mashburn... Modern stuff!

[/quote] Better look out, I am thinking Dober might be the first one suppressing his Mashburn... Modern stuff![/quote]

I keep in pretty close touch with Dober, and he apparently isn't using the 7mm Mashburn much anymore. He started having real problems with his shooting shoulder, which were at least partly due to shooting hard-recoiling rounds like the .340 Weatherby at rockchucks for practice. He had shoulder-replacement surgery earlier this year....

Plus, he eventually started down-sizing his big game rounds due to the shoulder problems--along with using different bullets. In one of our recent conversations he was planning to make his new elk rifle (he primarily shoots cows anymore) a .22-250, because he found out how effective it was with monolithic bullets. This isn't unheard of in older Montanans, even with cup-and-core bullets. A retired local outfitter I know mostly used his .22-250 for his elk hunting after he retired, partly because unlike the 7mm Remington Magnum he carried when guiding the bullets never exited, and most of his cow-hunting involves herds. He uses the same "varmint" loads he uses on coyotes, and shoots cow behind the shoulder. They go a little ways and fall over.

I keep in pretty close touch with Dober, and he apparently isn't using the 7mm Mashburn much anymore. He started having real problems with his shooting shoulder, which were at least partly due to shooting hard-recoiling rounds like the .340 Weatherby at rockchucks for practice. He had shoulder-replacement surgery earlier this year....

Plus, he eventually started down-sizing his big game rounds due to the shoulder problems--along with using different bullets. In one of our recent conversations he was planning to make his new elk rifle (he primarily shoots cows anymore) a .22-250, because he found out how effective it was with monolithic bullets. This isn't unheard of in older Montanans, even with cup-and-core bullets. A retired local outfitter I know mostly used his .22-250 for his elk hunting after he retired, partly because unlike the 7mm Remington Magnum he carried when guiding the bullets never exited, and most of his cow-hunting involves herds. He uses the same "varmint" loads he uses on coyotes, and shoots cow behind the shoulder. They go a little ways and fall over.[/quote]

He's an animal. He gets alot done with a bunch of stuff folks hand ring about!

MD, as I mentioned I'm on the fence. Like you, I have a 7mm SAUM. While I haven't loaded a lot for it, I have perused the reloading data. 2900 w/175 gr seems to be 'pushing' it, and then only when all of the stars are aligned. Your 2875 w/175gr is real-world proof of the 7 SAUM/175gr.

Time will tell. I'm sure there will be much more written and data collected before to long. That in hand, I'll make determination as to whether or not I 'need' a 7PRC. I can honestly say I've never made a decision to buy (or build) a rifle in any specific caliber based on a single writers opinion. And it won't happen where the 7 PRC is involved, either.

If I were to make a wild a$$ guess, I'd say Proof. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't already have a few few spun up and ready to go for various actions, right now, but are holding back on there release until the 'official' release of the 7 PRC by Hornady. Again, just another WAG.

Anti X, proof prefit, AG composite, TT special, Hawkins bm and rings of choice should put you around 6 pounds 10 ounces and $3200 if my coffee napkin is correct. Let us know how I did!

Sounds like a build sheet to me.

Where was that LA Mag Anti X at?

Pretty close to the numbers I came up with, though stock, BM and rings/bases might be different. Thought about a Bartlien 2b or fluted #3 in lieu of the Proof pre-fit. From what I recall in one of Aalf's threads, he mention that there was minimal weight savings between the 2b, fluted #3, and a Bartlien #4 CF, but 3-4 C-notes in price.

Be interesting to see if Christensen comes out with a Ridgeline FFT in 7 PRC and what it weighs - albeit probably with a 22" tube, vice 24 or 26. I know my CA Ridgeline FFT 300WSM, w/20" CF bbl, Swaro Z5 and Leupold Backcountry rings comes in at 7# 2oz. Ridgeline FFT would probably be a $2300-2400 proposition.

30-40 yrs ago I may have been impressed by a 7PRC, maybe. But we had the 7RM,Wby, STW, Imperial Mag and likely a few others around back then, too. About 35 yrs ago I bought a 7-08, it's done everything but a big bear for me, full faith in it. I turfed a 7RM back then in favour of a 338WM for areas where I hunted with big bears in them.

That’s been my thoughts as well. I’m almost tempted to rebarrel my 270 WSM to a 1:9 twist.

Just me, but if I’m rebarreling a 270 I’m going to twist it enough to handle any reasonable bullet that’s available. 1-7.5-1-8 min to handle the newer Nosler and Sierras. The extra RPMs won’t hurt hunting bullets.

Pac-Nor - only offers a 1:8 for a fast twist rate in .277", and that only in their 5R offering.




GR

I have a 9 twist on my .270 Win but don't require it. I think the .270 Win is best served by using 140's at just over 3000 fps so as to get a very good short to medium range trajectory using 140's with a bc over .5 such as the 140 TGK and 140 Berger Classic Hunter, they only require a 10 twist. The only hunting bullet I can think of that requires a 9 twist in the .270 Win is the 150 LR Accubond. To drive it at over 3000 fps in the .270 Win you need Reloder 26 which doesn't do well when temperatures get very hot. However in a bigger case such as a .270-7mm PRC I would consider using the 150 LR Accubond (if it shot as accurately as the Bergers or TGK's) and use a 9 twist or faster.

Redhawk Rifles delivered a Bartlein #3 SS, 7mm, 8T today.
Manson reamer and gages should be here Monday......

EXCELLENT!

👍

What action did you decide upon?

Still undecided. Defiance will likely get the nod.

Hodgdon lists a load for the 7WSM with a 175 Sierra SBT @ 2,966 ft/sec. That is almost exactly the same as the 180gr 7PRC @ 2,950 ft/sec. Even at 3,000 ft/sec, that doesn't give the 7PRC any advantage. Except maybe more powder consumption, more recoil and less barrel life

Doesn't sound very exciting to me. But ....... if you just have to have another PRC chambered rifle it may be worth it. Afterall; how many "Creedmoors" does anyone need?

Once again, somebody who thinks muzzle velocity is the ONLY difference between cartridges. It's easy to get as much or more velocity, just use a similar-sized or bigger case.

But there are two problems with comparing the 7mm WSM with the 7mm PRC. First, as I stated in an earlier post on this thread, the PRC's chamber has all the new stuff that "accuracy" cartridges include to help them shoot a little more accurately, including a 30-degree shoulder angle, and a parallel throat barrel above bullet diameter. In contrast, the 7mm WSM has a 35-degree shoulder, and a tapered throat. The throat in particular is NOT the best way to get the finest accuracy--which is what the PRC cartridges are all about, NOT the maximum muzzle velocity from a particular bullet diameter.

The other problem is finding 7mm WSM or ammo--and then hoping the brass is equal in quality to Hornady's brass, which for the past several years has been very good. Consistent brass dimensions are another "secret ingredient" in superb accuracy.

Defiance Deviant Hunter it is. Debated the Tenacity and anTi. Already have a Deviant Hunter SA Mag BF, as well as an anTi SA Mag BF. Like others, I had issues with scope/bolt handle clearance with the anTi. No issues with the DH. Bugholes.com had a couple DH LA Mag BF iin stock so I gave Russ a call. Should be at the LGS Friday. Reamer and gages from Manson came yesterday.

WiFowler, will these work with Hawkins M5 DBM or BDL only? "Remington style magwell with feed lips for hinged floorplates".

Are we talking the Deviant Hunter ? If so, yes, M5 DBM or BDL

From Defiance web site : "Works with hinged floorplates, detachable magazines or single shots"

I believe the anTi/anTi X work with BDL-Style and CENTER feed magazines.

FWIW, UPS notification says my Deviant Hunter from Bugholes.com should be here Friday!

That’s impressive!
Is it the GA hunter or regular?

I was thinking of the Tenacity, I should have been more specific.

AKWolverine - regular Deviant Hunter . . . Wish I could find a GA Hunter, they never seem to be available when I'm looking.

257Bob - Tenacity BDL mag cut works with hinged floor plates and single stack AICS magazines - so the same as the anTi/anTi X. It appears to me, that for all intents and purposes, the anTi is a Tenacity that's been machined to reduce a bunch of weight.

While all that may be true - I am achieving 7PRC velocities with 1/2moa accuracy at 400yds using prepped Win brass. And I'm using a nice short custom magnum action to get there. If the 7PRC can measurably out do that performance in a hunting rifle, I'll be the next guy to order one.

The only downside, IMO, to the 7WSM is that virtually no one makes high quality, commercially available brass. I could use 300WSM brass but it's a PITA to form and the Win brass has worked well.

The advantage of the 7mm PRC may or may not be the ballistics, or case design or whatever. The advantage of the 7mm PRC is HORNADY ! I'll say it again, the advantage of the 7mm PRC is HORNADY. The 6.5PRC and 300PRCs have been a gold-mine for Hornady. The 7mm PRC will be no different. Rifles will sell and Hornady will support them with ammo and brass. The same cannot be said for the 7 RSAUM or the 7 WSM. BOTH Remington and Winchester dropped the ball on those pretty much before they got out of the gate and nobody has picked up the slack.

Gotcha, thanks!

[/quote] While all that may be true - I am achieving 7PRC velocities with 1/2moa accuracy at 400yds using prepped Win brass. And I'm using a nice short custom magnum action to get there. If the 7PRC can measurably out do that performance in a hunting rifle, I'll be the next guy to order one.

The only downside, IMO, to the 7WSM is that virtually no one makes high quality, commercially available brass. I could use 300WSM brass but it's a PITA to form and the Win brass has worked well.[/quote]

That's fine performance!

A couple weeks ago I got to shoot a factory 7mm PRC rifle with factory ammunition extensively, at ranges out to 800 yards. Got very similar accuracy....

Which is yet another reason I've been fascinated in the advances both factory rifles and ammo have made in the last several years.

MD, without letting the cat outta the bag or breaking any NDA you may be tied to, was the factory 7mm PRC rifle fitted with a 24" or 26" tube?

I bought a bunch of a really good lot of 300 wsm Norma brand brass years ago. I found it really easy to form into 7 wsm. Just ran it into the resizer and formed a small shoulder part way down the neck just far enough to where the bolt would close snugly. Load it with a medium load and fire it and out came a perfectly fitted 7 wsm brass. I don't mind a bit of fireforming but I don't consider any brass ready for accuracy work until it's fired once. Even though I always full length size I only bump the shoulder a few thousandths.

I'm not a huge Norma brass fan but the lot of wsm I have from them is spectacular.

Bb

Sorry I missed this!

Didn't measure the barrel length, but believe it was 24".

Im starting to wonder if the PRC/CM accuracy miracle is more about folks using them with really good match bullets more than any other factor. I have not noticed the 6.5cm being more accurate than anything else I have shot but I have only used “hunting” bullets. I notice most of the folks who report super accuracy are using eldm, etc. Point being these were never offered in 7mm wsm factory loads. Im not sure if they are offered in 7rm or not. Another interesting point is the weatherby freebore saami spec is actually tighter than the PRC and kin and though accurate, nobody viewed those as miracles of accuracy. Of course wby rounds have that funky shoulder.

Lou

Lou,

Several observations:

Yes, today's 6.5mm "match" bullets tend to shoot more accurately than "hunting" bullets--but there are plenty of VERY accurate hunting bullets these days. As an example, the most accurate bullet I've tried in my custom 6.5 PRC made by Charlie Sisk is the 129-grain Nosler AccuBond Long Range, which will consistently put FIVE (not three shots) into less than 1/2" at 100 yards. And the bullets used in my 7mm PRC shooting were Hornady 180-grain ELD-Xs, their "hunting" ELD.

I have also tried plenty of "match" and "hunting" bullets in the 6.5 Creedmoor over the past dozen years, in several rifles. The finest accuracy in ANY of the dozen or so Creedmoors I've worked with occurred with the 140-grain Berger Hunting VLD--in one of the cheapest 6.5 CM rifles I've worked with, a Ruger American Predator. It grouped just as well in that rifle as the 129 ABLR in my custom 6.5 PRC.

Also, while the SAAMI minimum specs for Weatherby throat diameters are the same as for several other 7mm cartridges, they are TAPERED and longer than the 7mm PRC throat--and the 7mm WSM throat is also TAPERED more than the PRC throat, which has no taper before entering the lands. I would suggest you look closer at the details of the throat dimensions of all those cartridges.

The other factor with the Weatherby Magnums, of course, is throat wear--which happens quicker with cartridges that size. I have written a number times about how well today's Weatherby Magnum rifles shoot in the past 20 years, but throat-wear is still a major factor after a few hundred rounds.

Mule Deer

Will have a look at the throat angles. I was just looking at free bore section and noticed how tight the WBY rounds were. I guess my thinking was around you see ammo using eldx, eldm, bergers, etc in the “new rounds” and nothing else really. All very accurate bullets. The 6.5 creedmoor certainly turned the corner and now is getting power points, core-lokts, etc. Curious to see if the more accurate than average holds up with average bullets loaded in traditional lines. Any case, I like the 140 vld as well. It is what I used for last few years in my 6.5 CM.

Lou

In general, I haven't gotten the same sort of accuracy from Weatherby rounds with longer, high-BC boat-tailed bullets as in shorter-throated cartridges such as the 6.5 CM--or the 7mm SAUM. This may (or may not) be due to gas "blow-by" in the longer Weatherby throats, especially when more tapered.

Got it. Thanks MD!

Lou

Surely one of the greatest advantages in the 7PRC has to be the non-spiking of pressure that a 7mm Rem Mag is noted for. Consistency in pressure gains has to be a win for any handloader. I consider the 7mm RemMag as just about family in our household, but find myself these days reverting back to my 260 and 280ai. 99% of my hunting is covered by those two chamberings...but damn I love playing with other cartridges for pure curiosity :-)

Would a 7mm PRC reamer clean up the chamber of a 7mm Rem Mag? I have a Ruger #1 barrel in Rem Mag doing nothing..not sure if you could set the barrel back a thread on the No. 1

Then again since it's a single shot #1 could just long throat the 7mm rem mag and shoot longer than standard ammo if the extra performance is desired

http://www.40mmPRC.org

MacBros Evo

The 7mm PRC is quite a bit shorter than the 7mm Remington Magnum, 2.28 inches versus 2.5 inches, so no, a 7mm PRC reamer won't "clean up" the 7 RM chamber after setting the barrel back one thread.

If using a R700 action for a 7PRC build, would a 7RM/300WM or 7RUM/300RUM action be a better choice ? I really don't know if there is a difference in them or not.

Thanks

First read 7 PRC I thought a 6.5 necked up, but looks like length is added. I ain't nobody, I like the hell out of it.

Taking advantage of long for caliber bullets vs. available mag length without going to some carnivorous case for 5-10% velocity increase with a 50% powder consumption.

Long thought the 7mm Dakota might be a good 7mm Rem mag replacement, but after seeing the PRC's numbers, the Dakota seems to be too much of a good thing like the other powder wasters.

Gunzo,
I believe the 7PRC brass is longer than the 6.5PRC and shorter than the 300PRC.

Yep
Yep, and in fact the powder capacity is exactly between the 6.5 and .300.

Depends on what you want.

Except for the 7mm RM, hose cartridge kick a LOT more than the the 7mm PRC, because they burn a LOT more powder. The 7mm PRC's recoil is more moderate, and because of the excellent BC of Hornady's 180 ELD bullet result in very good downrange energy, plus less wind-drift.

I dunno what you mean by "better choice," but also don't know what you hunt. However, will not that cartridges that kick harder don't necessarily kill "better."

Will also note that Remington chambers the 7mm PRC is their newest 700s.

I think he meant the action itself.

No experience with the 700’s but the M70’s for a Rem Mag and Win Mag fed the 375 Ruger cases like they were made for them.

I’d almost think a RUM based might be too big between the feed rails but I have no first hand info about them.

Correct.. ..

If looking for a Remington action to build of off. Based on my question above.


Thanks

Thanks MD

Remington 700's will handle/feed just about any cartridge imaginable. I was NOT responding to that, but whether the bigger cartridges wpuld provide any other advantage over the 7mm PRC.

Once did an experiment with a .30-06 Remington 700, filling the magazine with a .30-40 Krag, .300 WSM and a .308 Winchester. They all fed well perfectly--though they obviously didn't enter the chamber. But the front end/ bullet did. Also ran the same experiment with a .338 Winchester Magnum custom rifle built on an FN Mauser action--and the .375 Rugers fed fine.

My point is that a LOT of people assume that 700s won't feed "correctly" with various cartridges, especially compared to CRF actions. But the opposite is true.

As a result my response was partly due to the question of whether the other rounds provide any "advantage." Which I assumed from the way he wrote the question that he was asking about "killing power," since the other cartridges he listed are "more powerful" than the 7mm PRC. I have taken (and seen other people take) a bunch of big game with all those rounds, and have yet to see a consistent difference in "killing power," as long as a good bullet in the right place.

Might also add that the biggest "advantage" any of those cartridges might have these days is the availability of brass and ammo.

My 7 PRC that is being spun up as I write this, is being built on Defiance LA Mag - not a RUM. We'll see how it feeds in a month or so. FWIW, my 300 PRC is built on a Rem 700 RUM action. Can't say one way or another whether the RUM action (ala a little bit different feed rail configuration) was/is actually needed - it's what I had available as a donor at the time. With the receiver cut for a Wyatt's extended box and follower, and the same installed, it feeds fine.

John, I took his question to mean which M700 would be a better donor rifle for the PRC (Win Mag/Rem Mag vs a RUM).

Probably so close it doesn't much matter either way on which will work.

I have a big RUM LA Defiance myself that I have sorta talked myself into doing in a 338 RUM. I have had the action for about 9 months and changed my mind about 3-4 times since then

Blasphemy for a rifle loonie . . .

I know man, hangin around the likes of guys like you, NYRiflemen, AKWolverine, etc really gets all kinds of ideas spinning around.. Tough to keep pace!

Thanks for the info