I'm new to loading for the 30-30, and using a Redding A series FL die set. So far the only bullet I've loaded is the Hornady 160 FTX.

I tried the usual set-up for the seater die, put a case in the shell holder, put he ram is all the way up, screw in the die until it contacts the case, and back off a full turn. The directions with the die didn't say anything different.

That didn't work, couldn't seat the bullet down far enough in the case, even with the seater stem screwed down as far as it would go. So I set the die down as far as I could, almost touching the case but it still won't seat the bullet down as far as the cannelure, it's about 2 mm short. The loaded rounds cycle in the action and the bullet doesn't stick in the lands but it seems odd that I can't seat down to the cannelure.


Anybody else run into this? The 160 FTX was made for 30-30s so it doesn't seem likely it's a bullet issue but maybe it is. I can swap out a longer seater stem from a different die or get a different one from Redding, just curious why this doesn't work out of the box.

Hmm. No, I had no problem seating them, but I was using Hornady dies.

Guy

I didn't have a problem with 160 FTXs either, using RCBS dies.

I use Lee 30-30 dies... just about have to bottom out the seating plug, but they do seat to the cannelure.

Need a longer seating stem (channeling my inner Cap'n Obvious here)

Are you sure you have the correct 160 FTX bullet? There were 2 versions. One for 30-30 and one for 30 Marlin Express.

Or as others have said, your seating stem is for traditional 30-30 bullets and not pointed ones.

Damn, wish I'd thought of that! Maybe they gave me the wrong stem.

Thanks for that, I didn't know they had two differnt 160 FTX's but I checked the box and I have the right ones for the 30-30, #30395.

I also have some Speer flat points, just seated one and with the die and stem cranked down as far as it they'll go, the case mouth just barely reaches the bottom of the cannelure.

Think I'll call Redding and ask them to send a new stem.

Another question, do you guys crimp yours?

I crimp using a Lee Factory Crimp die - cheap and works great!

Same here... Lee factory crimp.

I'm assuming you're using a Redding shellholder??

Yep, I crimp mine with a Lee Factory Crimp Die also. It’s the only rifle cartridge I crimp, as they are run in my M94 end to end in the tubular magazine.

I also trim all the cases to the same length every reload, that way the crimps are consistent.

Cap'n Pay Attention was snoozing, my bad

Smoke, shellholder correct as stated above?

Thanks for the replies. I've never loaded for a lever action with a tube magazine, do you guys crimp because you had problems with the bullets slipping, or just as an SOP?

I had that problem with my Redding 350 mag seating die. I called and a longer one was sent.

I screw the die down until it touches the case holder and the seater works fine.

If you have a tube mag lever gun, it's a good idea to crimp. If they are point to base and without a crimp, some could get hammered into the case mouth and raise pressures. If you are shooting them from a single shot or bolt gun, it doesn't matter as much and it's a matter of accuracy whether to crimp or not.

Does your seater have a crimp function?

No problem with RCBS in 30-30 and 32-40’s with 165’s. Can you email Redding, ask their advice?

Longer seating stem of 30-06. I assume the stem is longer??

I've got a couple 30 cal dies, only one way to find out

Turning the seater die down until it contacts the case and then backing off a full turn is a normal procedure when you DON'T want to crimp. I (and I think most 30-30 shooters) do a crimp into the cannelure of their 30-30 bullets. So to do that you would actually screw the die down until it contacts the case, then a little bit more. Doing that might solve your "can't get the seater stem to push them in deep enough" problem.

Follow the instructions that came with your Redding dies on "seating with a crimp" or words to that effect, and I bet they work fine. I use a Redding FL die set for my 30-30 and it works great and shoots MOA.

Good luck with it.
Rex

smokepole;
Good evening once more sir, I trust the day behaved, your weather is tolerable and you're well.

Initially I was going to answer that if it's .30-30 bound for a tubular mag I always crimp. The condition being I used to load for a Savage 340 as well and want to say it was 130gr Speer HP in it.

Then I recalled something wandering around in my memory that I did an experiment way back in the day with some .308" RN bullets - likely Speer because we used to get them relatively cheap in Oroville, WA back when that was still a thing. They had no crimping cannelure so were perhaps 150gr or maybe even 165gr, again sorry I'd have to go through 40 plus years of reloading notes to find the weight.

Again based upon semi-geezer memory here sir, what I did was load up a bunch and then would shoot them and measure the last couple from the front of the magazine tube to see if they'd moved. I do not recall any issues with them doing so.

That said, when I went back to running "regular" .308" RN or FP bullets meant for the .30-30 I did go back to crimping. Old habits and all that.

When I'm loading subsonic 170gr cast bullets with Trail Boss I don't crimp either, but they're usually loaded one at a time dropping one in the top.

I want to say that I did crimp the regular velocity cast bullet loads however.

Hopefully that was useful and not as confusing as it seems when I've re-read this.

Good luck with the reloading and the shooting with a fine old round.

All the best.

Dwayne

Dwayne,

Thanks for jogging my old memory: Have written in various place that I gave up crimping .30-30 bullets many years ago, for the same reason you mention: It didn't make any difference in several lever-actions....

We've been having the "January thaw" here for a while, but you know how those things go. Even I can remember 2-3 years ago when we were having a mild winter--and then set a local record for a low March temperature on the 2nd of -34 F., which is pretty darn close to -34 C. as well!

John

John;
Good evening thanks for the reply.

Now that you mention it, I recall reading at least one article where you mentioned that and thought, "yah, that's what I found in the 94 that one time".

In this instance and in many others, I am somewhat hesitant to reply because my "sample size" is often awfully small.

Not blowing smoke up your kilt here, but I've always appreciated how you articulate the process you've gone through to arrive at the findings you then report. Hopefully that made sense?

All that to say I can usually follow along when I read.

Glad to read your weather has given you a bit of a break too.

It's been pretty warm in the valley here and yesterday instead of going ice fishing I broke out the rototiller and gave one garden patch a couple hard passes. Of course it snowed a wee bit last night, but is raining again now.

I remember that cold snap in March up here a couple years back too, though we didn't get that cold, but it wrecked the buds on a few trees that had budded early.

Thanks again for the reply and all the best to you and Eileen.

Dwayne

Thanks for the replies Trex, MD, and Dwayne. I'd like to get away with not crimping. This first round of loads was done with new brass so I didn't FL size the cases, just ran the expander ball down far enough through the necks to round them out (yes MD, I read your stuff, thanks for the tips) so I think the neck tension might be a little light for a tube magazine.

I'm thinking on the next loading I'll size in two steps, first run the expander ball through the neck, then remove it and FL size without it. Hopefully that will give me enough neck tension to work with the rifle. It'll be interesting to see how that works this first time, and then with multiple loadings on the brass.

smokepole;
Good morning once more my cyber friend, I hope that this Friday is starting as smoothly as possible for you.

As the morning coffee was kicking in here, a memory from a hunt a couple seasons back was twigged and I thought it might be helpful to share it.

Photo for illustration.



At one point in the dim past I worked over a pair of lever .30-30's which were mid '70's production if memory serves. When I say "worked over" I mean the butt stocks are bedded for perfect fit to the rear of the receiver and tang, an aluminum tube is installed into the butt stock where the tang screw goes, the fore end socket is bedded to the front of the receiver and floated forward for minimum contact and then the barrel is relieved so it doesn't touch the magazine tube anywhere other than the muzzle.

The purpose of the experiment was to see how accurate I could make a lever gun which would be a truck/camping/fun sort of arm. Once I got both of them dialed in smoke, I didn't shoot groups but will say that the Marlin on the bottom was able to hit clay pigeons at 100yds with multiple shooters as long as one was inclined to shoot. That's not off a bench either, that's standing and shooting unsupported.

An offshoot of that was that I had a fair bunch of Speer 130gr FP loaded up for rock and clay pigeon shooting with the Marlin and that ammo stayed in the safe when a friend wandered by and decided he needed a lever gun for his wife and began stacking brown bills - yes our funny colored currency - until I relented and it went home with him.

Fast forward many years and a buddy who I hunt with sometimes bought an angle eject 94 from the early '80's. This was at the beginning of the beer flu and .30-30 components were unobtanium up here.

I gave him a bunch of brass and then offered some of the 130gr Speer FP loads for him to try in the Angle Eject since there was no shortage and they didn't work in anything I had at the time. He tried them, they worked very well and the rest of them went home with him.

One morning when we were on the mountain wandering about looking for a whitetail, one of them tied up his rifle with the cartridge stuck between the magazine tube and the lifter - to the point where we began to disassemble the 94 on the tailgate of my pickup. We got it unstuck finally and finished the hunt.

Upon returning home we measured the COAL and found it was just a tad too long. I forget how many thousandths it was - not much - but apparently enough to hang up in the rifle. Of course the rest of the batch was measured and at least another one or two was just that wee bit too long.

All that to say sir, sometimes a lever gun will be funny about feeding ammo where the COAL is a bit to short, but beware that if it's too long, that brings unintended consequences as well.

Hopefully again that was useful to you or someone out there.

Have a good Friday and weekend.

Dwayne

If you've got a pair of dial calipers around, you could take the neck expander out of the die, chuck it up in a hand drill and spin it while pinching a piece of fine sandpaper around it until you reduce its diameter .002" or so. To smooth it out afterwards use a piece of Scotchbrite on it while it's spun in the drill.

Wear a glove. It's going to get hot during the sanding process.

Thanks Dwayne and Briz, I might try that with the drill.

[quote=smokepole]I'm new to loading for the 30-30, and using a Redding A series FL die set. So far the only bullet I've loaded is the Hornady 160 FTX.

I tried the usual set-up for the seater die, put a case in the shell holder, put he ram is all the way up, screw in the die until it contacts the case, and back off a full turn. The directions with the die didn't say anything different.[quote]

IIRC, the directions say to screw the die in a bit deeper - not back it off.
Might be - this is the problem.

Your seat stem should have #20 stamped on it. If that checks out, call Redding and they'll send a new seat stem to you that contacts the bullet ogive higher, seating the bullet deeper. It'll be a #6 or 7. I'm at work and can't remember which they sent to me for my 30-30 seating die. You are correct to back the seating die off one full turn for no crimp.

Thanks, I will check that out.

Aahhh - evidently not enough coffee yesterday.
I was thinking sizer even after you said "seater"!
My stupidity on display!

No worries Mark, if that's the biggest mistake you make this week it's a great week.

Thanks for the help.

Yes. My dies are a 50 year old set of Pacifics.

Just grind a 1/4" off the bottom of your die.

Good idea. And if I don't get good groups with the rounds I load, I'll cut off the end of the barrel in 1/2 inch increments until it shoots good.

Crimp for tubular mag guns as a matter of course. Trim to length first to get uniform crimps. 30-30s seem to grow more than some others and a case a little too long will crumple at the shoulder when crimping.

Papag: Why not just crimp with a Lee taper crimp die?

Never seen a taper crimp die for 30-30. Do you mean Lee factory crimp die?

Not a .30-30 round, but rather the .25-20 Winchester. First round went downrange from the levermatic, but the second would not feed. Removed the rounds and found this.



Not crimped, figured that recoil wasn't significant. Apparently neck tension is?

Yikes! (Yet another reason to stick with single shots, hmmm? Haha!!)

Pa: Yes the Lee Factory Crimp die.

That is why I like Savage 99, no need to crimp! ;-)

Holy cow! Some of that.25-20 brass is pretty thin, gotta wonder if it didn’t squeeze down enough. Not such an issue now that we’re usually making them from.32-20’s.

I always put just the least little bit of crimp on.25-20’s.

Fact! That gun is somebody else’s problem!