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There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.

I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.
Hmmm, Must be a Conspiracy …

I foolishly shot up my last flat that I had squirrelled away, practicing for grouse season .

🥴
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Hmmm, Must be a Conspiracy …

I foolishly shot up my last flat that I had squirrelled away, practicing for grouse season .

🥴

A noble purpose, but a stupid move. wink

I have been scrounging under the seats and in the door pockets and center consoles of my Jeep, my 1/2 ton truck, my 3/4 ton truck, my old suburban, my old Nissan Pathfinder, my Polaris Ranger...X2...and RZR, as well as closets, unmarked ammo cans, hunting coats/vests, drawers, garage, boxes in the loafing shed, and in the cargo container.

I have enough for a good grouse hunt.
I've noticed the same. Plenty of 12 gauge locally, even 16s and 28s are easier to find. Only thing worse is 410s they're nonexistent
There seems to be a smattering of #8 shot, but that bounces off mature late season chukar.
L2S : I don’t know about your hunting area, but for me inconsistency of that sort in loads might just add to the hunt. Ha
You can find it behind the Hodgdon 4350.
Originally Posted by luv2safari
There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.
I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.

Bruce, I was going to PM you the location of some 20ga FS almost in your backyard, but your Inbox is over the limit. You need to empty the mailbox if you want any more messages.
A gunshop employee recently told me that most of the 16 and 28 ga. ammo we're seeing in the stores right now is from pre-Covid manufactured stock. Because the demand was never as great as it is for 20 ga., it didn't disappear completely.

Interesting, but I can't guarantee its accuracy.
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I have two cases of Nobelsport 1oz #8 coming. Found on ammoseek.com. $120 a case with free shipping, more than the stuff our club sells, but I really like those.

Other sources I shop were out. Going rate for 12ga 1 and 1 1/8oz loads local and online seems to be $100 a case. If you can find .410s for $20 a box, and you need them, better jump on a few.
I wish someone would start importing Hull cartridges.
Bruce, I have a bag of #7 shot, that's my main size for sharptail, chuckar and incidental hun. Last I was in Sportsman's they had a bag at a price that made my eyes cross and my willy shrink......
Originally Posted by luv2safari
There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.

I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.
Plenty of 20 ga. shells in Scheels Missoula today.
[Linked Image from mecoutdoors.com]
Here in Amarillo TX I can buy all the 20 gauge I want. But I can't remember the last time I saw any 410 shells on the shelf. I've ordered it online but sure haven't seen it locally in a long, long time.
Depends how bad you want it.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/20-gauge?sl=2%203%2F4&ss=5
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
[Linked Image from mecoutdoors.com]

Leave it to Dan....he always has the answer!!
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Depends how bad you want it.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/20-gauge?sl=2%203%2F4&ss=5
Well that didn't work.

You get the idea.
What load? There is all kinds of slug loads, some steel in bigger shot size, and a bit of bizmuth around, some 5-packs of turkey ammo, but try to find decent upland loads in 5 & 6 shot. It's as scarce as 410 ammo.
Originally Posted by GrouseChaser
Originally Posted by luv2safari
There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.

I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.
Plenty of 20 ga. shells in Scheels Missoula today.

Any of it in lead shot 5s or 6s in field, high base, or 3" in those? Nobody has them that I can find, at least here or online.

I'm glad I also shoot a 16 gauge.
You can narrow it down to shot size.

I did 20 gauge, 2 3/4" #5 shot. Comes up with Remington Express XLR, Federal Prarie Storm and others.
Originally Posted by MAC
Here in Amarillo TX I can buy all the 20 gauge I want. But I can't remember the last time I saw any 410 shells on the shelf. I've ordered it online but sure haven't seen it locally in a long, long time.

I was gifted an old Mossberg, bolt action .410. The main purpose was for turkey hunting.
I could find some 2.5" #8's, but 3" with ANY shot size are absolutely nonexistent! 😖

I ended up having to purchase two 5 packs of Feferal 3" .410 with #9 TSS! That crap is $6/shell! 🤯

P.S. - but it is a blessing to be able to find 16 gauge ammo again. Selection is kinda slim, but bullets is bullets!
https://battlehawkarmory.com/product/fed-pfx258fs5-prstrm-20-2.75-1oz-2510-upl
I was lucky enough to score some boxes of Golden Pheasant before the worst of the crunch set in. Probably a lifetime supply, given the bird-shooting prospects these days. Also have turkey loads, slugs, and some buckshot, purchased and given to me.
https://grabagun.com/federal-prairie-storm-20-ga-6-shot-25-rounds-2-75.html
https://shopbfam.com/product/federal-pfx258fs5-prairie-storm-20-gauge-2.75-1-oz-5-shot-25-bx-10-cs
https://ammo.com/shotgun/20-ga-ammo...ot-lead-20-gauge-ammunition-from-federal

If link works scroll down to the 3rd offering, 20 gauge, 2 3/4" #6 field loads.
Originally Posted by luv2safari
There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.

I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.

Not the case here if you use #6 or #7.5 lead.

There is even a little variety of 28 and 410, but 16 is nearly impossible to find except for buckshot, slugs, and Federal #6. Fortunately #6 works well in my Heym combination guns, Mossberg 942KA, and Remington 870 and 1100.
Originally Posted by MAC
Here in Amarillo TX I can buy all the 20 gauge I want. But I can't remember the last time I saw any 410 shells on the shelf. I've ordered it online but sure haven't seen it locally in a long, long time.
Same here.
Even during the highest point in the ammo shortage, I could still find 28 ga shells when nothing else was on the shelves. I am seeing 12s coming back and once in awhile see a box or 2 of 20 but not often. 410 and 16 are no shows around here.
I must do more gun shows than you
L2S, Shotshells in any gauge aren't a problem for me, find them all the time. Have mec 600 jrs in all the gauges for loads I want but can't buy. What I need is a new Gordon or English Setter pup. Buy that young guy you take hunting a new 20 ga Mec 600 Jr so he can keep you supplied..mb
Sell one of those EXTRA, SPARE...etc vehicles and invest in a reloader.......make all you want.

yawn
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Are those Chukar ? Never seen one hereabouts
here you go
https://www.reedsgunsandammo.com/ammunition/federal-20ga-game-shok-6-2-75in-25rds-h2006-029465072667
I have two cases of it, but can't shoot a shotgun anymore
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
You can narrow it down to shot size.

I did 20 gauge, 2 3/4" #5 shot. Comes up with Remington Express XLR, Federal Prarie Storm and others.

Good load, 20 gauge and #5 shot.
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Are those Chukar ? Never seen one hereabouts

Top are sagehen, and the last two photos are dusky grouse (blues).

Thanks for the link. I'll get a few boxes. I use mostly high base ammo for our chukar, but this is a good dusky grouse load. wink
I posted links from 2 places for some Federal Prarie Storm up above.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
https://ammo.com/shotgun/20-ga-ammo...ot-lead-20-gauge-ammunition-from-federal

If link works scroll down to the 3rd offering, 20 gauge, 2 3/4" #6 field loads.

Thank you for the links. I bookmarked them.
That outfit ships quick, they also have some great ammo deals if you poke around on their site.
It is starting to get back to normal here. Just a guess, but I've noted an uptick in interest in 20 ga shotguns and folks are buying ammo as soon as it hits shelves to feed them. I found the best prices and a good supply at the shooting club where I shoot. $14 OTD for 1oz of #7 1/2 shot @1250 fps. It is Clever brand from Italy. Never heard of it, but the guy at the club says it is pretty good. I'm shooting a round of clays in a couple of hours and will know more then.
The shortages have this time changed forever how a lot of people by ammo. Instead of buying a box or two they buy a flat..Not because they are shooting more...but they are finally understanding having ammo when you need it is your responsibility not some retailer to provide it...mb
Scheels in Fargo ND has #8 STS loads by the case for 109. Federal top gun for 99. They have almost every other 20 gauge ammo you could ask for. They also have a good selection of 16 and 28 ammo, and a full line of 12.
Hi-base and 3" 5s and 6s are what we shoot most of here, and those are not on shelves, nor are they in inventory at the online sales...or they are limited in some cases to 2-4 boxes.

MB, it sure is the job of retailers to supply what the consumers want and need. THAT'S their business.
L2S, it's only their business to sell what they can get. Some production manager or admin turd decides what is made and that choice is allways gonna be what turns over the fastest. Specialty loads like you want aren't stocked anywhere but pheasant country here in the Dakota's. Get online with Scheels or maybe Dakotamart in Pierre SD, or Cabelas in Mitchell SD. Your best bet that I can see...mb
I saw a bunch of 20 gauge shells in Walmart yesterday. I guess I should go back and buy some since there is a shortage.
Originally Posted by JamesJr
I saw a bunch of 20 gauge shells in Walmart yesterday. I guess I should go back and buy some since there is a shortage.

You should, and if you actually own a 20ga, buy them all…..
Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
L2S, it's only their business to sell what they can get. Some production manager or admin turd decides what is made and that choice is allways gonna be what turns over the fastest. Specialty loads like you want aren't stocked anywhere but pheasant country here in the Dakota's. Get online with Scheels or maybe Dakotamart in Pierre SD, or Cabelas in Mitchell SD. Your best bet that I can see...mb

Honestly, I can’t believe anyone is still depending on stores for their needful things these days. I was in Costco yeserday hoping to score some lump backfin (no dice), and decided to buy some of their Columbian coffee beans. Again, no dice.

If you’re out and find what you want, sure go for it, but waiting, wishing, and hoping it’ll show up just doesn’t get you the goods anymore. Costco online has the coffee I want.
Our Walmarts around here seem to have enough to get a guy by in 12 and 20 with a smattering of 16 and 28 thrown in. No boutique loads, but I could hunt about anything from dove up to geese with their offerings if I had to.

Rogers has some, but all in case quantity.

Kent Fast Lead in 6's and 7.5s
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/Ult-FL-Upland-20g-23-4-1oz-8

Rio Royal Pheasants in 6's
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com...4-1-oz-royal-pheasant-copper-plated-shot

Winchester Super Pheasant in 5's
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com...easant-copper-plated-diamond-grade-loads
Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by JamesJr
I saw a bunch of 20 gauge shells in Walmart yesterday. I guess I should go back and buy some since there is a shortage.

You should, and if you actually own a 20ga, buy them all…..

Given that about all I use a shotgun for is for turkey hunting, I've probably got all the shotgun shells I'll ever need,
Originally Posted by Troutnut
I've noticed the same. Plenty of 12 gauge locally, even 16s and 28s are easier to find. Only thing worse is 410s they're nonexistent
410 bore are tough. But every few months you find some if you are looking. If you are lucky its a good gun store and will see you cases.

Good luck.

I'm feeling a bit caught too. Even though I haven't shot a shotgun in years we only have less than 10 of those half cases of 12 left laying around. Wife demanded more buckshot so we bought 400 rounds of that a few months ago.

20 I've not even looked for. Though last times I was in an Academy they had every gauge except 410 bore.
Originally Posted by Cheesy
Our Walmarts around here seem to have enough to get a guy by in 12 and 20 with a smattering of 16 and 28 thrown in. No boutique loads, but I could hunt about anything from dove up to geese with their offerings if I had to.

Rogers has some, but all in case quantity.

Kent Fast Lead in 6's and 7.5s
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/Ult-FL-Upland-20g-23-4-1oz-8

Rio Royal Pheasants in 6's
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com...4-1-oz-royal-pheasant-copper-plated-shot

Winchester Super Pheasant in 5's
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com...easant-copper-plated-diamond-grade-loads

People buy shotgun shells in less than half case quantities. The 250 round flats? I never really realized that I guess.

Maybe turkey shells but even if I wanted that I would be tempted to buy a flat to last for life.
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Are those Chukar ? Never seen one hereabouts

Sage Hen
Hit up the Wal-Mart in Midlothian, VA. Shelf full of 20 gauge.
Was in a Walmart back in late summer, walked through and they had 20 ga Estate brand. Price label said 1.49. Waited 10 mins for someone to come the sporting goods counter to ask them to verify the price. Dude looked super annoyed as he pointed to the price label and said “it’s right here man”. I asked how many I could buy and he said he had bunch, while looking even more annoyed. I said I’ll take them all. Kept a flat for myself even though I rarely shoot 20 ga and passed the rest on to friends and family.

Stupid fooker. I am assuming someone had them miss marked. Don’t even feel guilty.
Originally Posted by JamesJr
I saw a bunch of 20 gauge shells in Walmart yesterday. I guess I should go back and buy some since there is a shortage.
Same here. I picked up 3 of the 100 pack Federal #8's last time I was there. It all depends on being there at the right time.
Originally Posted by Switch
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Are those Chukar ? Never seen one hereabouts

Sage Hen

Top picture are sagehen

The next two photos are Dusky (Blue) grouse.
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Are those Chukar ? Never seen one hereabouts

These are chukar, the Devil-birds.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I always thought if a guy had #7 he could do very well on a lot of stuff.

Denser pattern than #7 but a little more energy than #7 1/2.

Might even work good on pigeons, IDK.
Checked out SW and a few Academy stores here recently. Zero 20 gauge and 410.
Back when I hunted pheasants a lot in PA, 7 1/2s were my favorites in an IC choked 12. Not sure why they seemed to do better than 6s, and patterning was a thing I never tried in those days, but they seemed to work very well. My brother OTOH, liked 6s or the 6&4 combo loads.

My 1oz 8s came yesterday. Oughta last me a few months since I shoot 12, 20, and occasionally .410 on clays once a week; usually two or three rounds. Almost out of .410s, and not sure I’m willing to fork over the bucks for more just yet.
Big bird hunt this weekend with Hatari. Fortunately I have plenty of 20s and 28s for the festivities..
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Bruce,

When I did an intensive project on the 28-gauge around 20 years ago for Handloader magazine, I came to the conclusion that #7 shot was the its best all-around shot size for most upland hunting. Did load smaller shot for smaller birds, like doves and quail, and did use #6 on sage grouse. But hard #7s worked great on anything in between, including pheasants. In fact my favorite 28-gauge load for roosters used 7/8 ounce of 7s, which crumpled them out to 40+ yards--and yes, they were all wild birds. It;'s reason I still have a large supply of high-antimony #7s in my collection of loading components.

Found afterward, of course, that the same hard 7s worked great in larger gauges as well. In 2021 did another Handloader piece on lower-pressure loads for older 12-gauges, and killed roosters out to 50 yards dead in the air with an ounce of the same hard 7s. The reason, of course, is pattern density: The hard shot's big enough to penetrate well, but the increased density makes it more likely some will land in the right places on the bird.

It's no coincidence that in Britain the most popular shot size for driven pheasants is their #6 shot--which is the same size as American #7s.
Plenty of it here.
https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/Ammunition/Shotgun-Shells/gauge/20
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
[quote=luv2safari]

It's no coincidence that in Britain the most popular shot size for driven pheasants is their #6 shot--which is the same size as American #7s.

MD: Thanks for this. I have two flats of Eley 12 gauge 2-1/2 inch shells with No. 6 shot and wondered what the US equivalent would be. Rem
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Here's the size of the grouse we have. #6 and #5 shot are the correct medicine. I wish America would wise up and start loading #7 shot, not that neither fish/nor fowl #7 1/2.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Bruce,

When I did an intensive project on the 28-gauge around 20 years ago for Handloader magazine, I came to the conclusion that #7 shot was the its best all-around shot size for most upland hunting. Did load smaller shot for smaller birds, like doves and quail, and did use #6 on sage grouse. But hard #7s worked great on anything in between, including pheasants. In fact my favorite 28-gauge load for roosters used 7/8 ounce of 7s, which crumpled them out to 40+ yards--and yes, they were all wild birds. It;'s reason I still have a large supply of high-antimony #7s in my collection of loading components.

Found afterward, of course, that the same hard 7s worked great in larger gauges as well. In 2021 did another Handloader piece on lower-pressure loads for older 12-gauges, and killed roosters out to 50 yards dead in the air with an ounce of the same hard 7s. The reason, of course, is pattern density: The hard shot's big enough to penetrate well, but the increased density makes it more likely some will land in the right places on the bird.

It's no coincidence that in Britain the most popular shot size for driven pheasants is their #6 shot--which is the same size as American #7s.
Full choke for the 40sh yard #7 pheasant kills?
Tag gun shop in New Milford Pa. had a pretty good selection of 16 and 20 gauge shells on the shelves today. Didn't notice if there were any .410's or not.
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Tag gun shop in New Milford Pa. had a pretty good selection of 16 and 20 gauge shells on the shelves today. Didn't notice if there were any .410's or not.
Any clue if they ship?
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Tag gun shop in New Milford Pa. had a pretty good selection of 16 and 20 gauge shells on the shelves today. Didn't notice if there were any .410's or not.
Any clue if they ship?
Check their web site. Taggunshop.
Is a reasonable to think the reason is the Brits when shooting driven Pheasants, are most often shooting incomers with the breast and vitals exposed? While they do turn and shoot some going away, the majority are incomers. In addition driven pheasants in Britain most often fall on relatively open grounds and there are multiple Dogs for the retrieve. Finding cripples is often not as much of an issue as here. Then there is the crash from 30 to 40 yards up, which is mostly rare here.

A going away wild Rooster is much different than an incomer or a crosser.

Just purchased 4 flats of 20 gauge 7.5's for practice and one flat of Bismuth 5's for hunting. Bismuth because in the course of a day you may go from a lead area to non-tox required.
battue,

I have mentioned exactly that difference in shooting angles and ranges in many of my articles, and at least one book. If I recall correctly, one of the quotes I mentioned somewhere came from a Brit who criticized Americans for "shooting pheasants right up the fundament."

But have found high-antimony #7s VERY effective in killing wild American pheasants at typical "fundament" angles and ranges. And have used them considerably in gauges from 28 to 12. When I do find shot while processing birds, it's usually under the skin on the far side of the bird.

Also have a bunch of Bismuth loads on hand, both factory and handloads, in various gauges, and tend to prefer 6s or 5s there. But as I have mentioned elsewhere, have been using Bismuth since 1996.

Did considerable experimentation recently with hard tungsten shot, in both 20 and 12-gauge, and reported on it in Handloader a couple years ago. It's extremely effective--and extremely expensive.
Might add that I've shot "driven" birds in various places here and there, including Argentina and South Africa--which including wild guinea fowl, which are twice the size of pheasants--as well as on typical pheasant drives in places such as South Dakota. Just about as many birds were taken going as coming. Have found in all of those that pattern density, especially with harder shot, has been more important than other factors.
I wish we had birds to hunt.
I bet it's been a decade since I've put a grouse up close to home.
Of course that would lead me to having a shotgun collection! crazy
Is there a scarcity? Seems to be a lot in my cabinet
Sometime in the past you wrote a large Bird like a Pheasant will easily fill a shotgun pattern of large shot. Which made a lot of sense. Ever since I have used nothing but 5 or 6's on Pheasants. And often on the smaller stuff also. I understand the theory of filling up the pattern, but have found if I point well, few will find their way thru the swarm, and 5 or 6's are the Campfire hammer of Thor.


My Stepfather tolerated my Mothers farming roots and subsequently their little 8 acre residence had a variety of farm animals. A Pig, Rabbits, Pigmey Goats, some Pheasants, fighting Chickens from her Dads time. They were fun to watch sparing. A Peacock was in the mix along with two horses. Then 4 Guinea hens arrived and soon there were around 20. Nothing came up the driveway without a loud greeting. Often from the top of the barn ridge. Eventually there were more and they decided to branch out further down the road to another residence. Which didn't go over all that well. laugh

The rabbits were for eating, but were allowed the run of the place. I was the one called to do the killing when they wanted a meal, but their eating didn't keep up with the mating. Which caused another problem.The Pigmey Goats eventually got confined when my Stepdad came out and they were on the roof of his car. It was a hoot to visit!!!!!
Battue,

Don't know if I ever wrote exactly what you state, "a large Bird like a Pheasant will easily fill a shotgun pattern of large shot," but did point out in my Handloader article on the 28-gauge that one reason it works so well on larger birds is they do indeed get hit by more shot than the smaller birds many people think the 28 works best on.

That article was based partly on deciding to use the 28 as long as possible during a Montana autumn--where the upland birds hunted tend to get progressively bigger and tougher later in the season, due to dove season closing, pheasant season opening and birds maturing. That was also back when sage grouse season lasted as long as the other upland seasons. When the 28 started "failing," I'd put it away and use larger gauges.

But I never did. Found it worked great on pheasants out to at least 40 yards, eventually deciding a handload of 7/8 ounce of hard 7's did as well as any other 28 load. Used an ounce load of copper-plated 6s on sage grouse, and the longest kill was 47 yards on a mature rooster. (The 7's also worked fine on all three of our "forest" grouse--ruffs, blues and the Franklin's variety of spruce grouse--as well as on Huns. But the pattern was a little thin for doves, except at the closer ranges typical earlier in the season. Generally I used 8's or even 9's then.

It was a lot of fun--and eye-opening!
That most likely was where I got it. You were also correct on TSS shot. It ups the smaller gauges into another level. However yes expensive and most likely not needed for the ranges I'm comfortable shooting.
Originally Posted by battue
You were also correct on TSS shot. It ups the smaller gauges into another level. However yes expensive and most likely not needed for the ranges I'm comfortable shooting.

Yep! I don't need it either, but it sure is impressive.

But was almost equally impressed by hard 7s a couple of years ago, even in 12 gauge. Was doing a Handloader article on lower-pressure handloads for older 12s. Had somehow ended up with three guns to play with, a Greener Damascus-barrel made in 1895 with 2-3/4" chambers, a Sauer sidelock hammer gun made in 1911 with 65mm (2.56") chambers, and an R. Lisle British boxlock with 2-3/4" chambers, one of those "Birmingham guns" finished by a smaller maker, with what looks like a Webley & Scott action and typical British "half" and full chokes in the 30" barrels.

Used different loads in all three, mostly Bismuth in the Greener because it was the heaviest, tightest choked gun, which I used more after the waterfowl season opened, due to also encountering ducks in my most frequent pheasant hunting area around a big reservoir. Took roosters with all three, but perhaps the most impressive kill was with the Lisle and it's full-choke barrel, using a load featuring an ounce of 7s in Federal paper shells, originally worked up for one of Eileen's light British guns to keep recoil at a tolerable level.

We were hunting a strip of standing wheat, and getting near the end when a rooster and 8-10 hens flushed toward a shelterbelt of poplars beyond the end of the wheat. The rooster got up maybe 25 yards from me, and by the time I pulled the trigger on the full choke barrel he was just entering the shelter belt--but dropped immediately and tumbled through the branches, obviously dead in the air, and the Lab grabbed him a as he hit the ground. The range, as near as I could pace it off from where he flushed to the trees, was just about 50 yards. Was very impressed both by the number of pellets in him, and their penetration--just as I had been by the same brand of 7s in the 28-gauge years ago.

But as always, more experimentation is called for!
Iv'e used TSS a couple times in the 28. Hit a few and missed a few also. However hits were impressive, and what you mostly saw was the head flop and the wings quit beating, before they came to ground.
Originally Posted by luv2safari
There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.

I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.

Even Walmart carries 16 gauge ammo now. I see a lot of 28,16 and 12
Originally Posted by battue
Iv'e used TSS a couple times in the 28. Hit a few and missed a few also. However hits were impressive, and what you mostly saw was the head flop and the wings quit beating, before they came to ground.

Yep!

But that's also what I saw with the high-antimony lead 7s....
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by luv2safari
There's none in the stores and little or nothing online.

I have an easier time finding 16 & 28 gauge ammo.

Even Walmart carries 16 gauge ammo now. I see a lot of 28,16 and 12

That all depends on where you are. It lucky when you find any decent 12 ga ammo in the ones out here, let alone 20, and NO 16. Also, this is mostly trout fishing territory, so Walmart has no stock of anything trout and lots of bass.

No LGS carries 16, and they shy away from stocking much 20ga. This is chukar country where high base #6 rules, so they stock 7 1/2 and 8 shot field loads.
crazy

I find a better selection of the 16ga ammo I need on line than I do 20ga.
RST seems to be slowly getting up and running again...Would be a good idea to keep checking their website.

Just looked and they list 16 gauge 2 1/2 inch 5’s in stock.
If you think 20 bore shotshells are scarce, try finding slugs, especially sabots. And if you find them, it will melt your plastic, five to eight dollars each. Some are available on GB, not cheap and plus shipping. Haven't seen any in my LGS for nearly two years and those were not sabots. Of course I live in slug and buckshot only country.

Back in old times when I was working at Gander Mountain, just a few weeks before trout season opener, we got in two aisles of walleye and pike stuff. Walleye and Pike would be closed for two more months. PA's trout opener was almost as big a holiday as buck season opener.
Bfly
In the current situation....which many in the know say is not going away soon.... the game has changed. 20 Gauge offerings are out there. You can wait until the season and hope you find something, or you can get it now. Most likely you are going to have to pay dearly either way.


Here is your 20 gauge 5 and 6's. I bit the bullet and bought 250, which should last me a good while for hunting Pheasants. Two years ago a friend waited and paid $20 plus a box for the cheap stuff in Mitchell, SD and was glad to get it. Have close to enough target loads for practice, and even they are not as inexpensive as in the past. So if I'm still here next season I won't be scrambling around.

Gas alone for a Grouse trip and two trips to SD is a couple K. Factor in food, lodging, etc and shells are mostly, as a friend says, another bag on the Queen Mary.

It's out there...get it now or hope you can come hunting season. 2 3/4 and 3 inch.. 5,6,7,8's.

https://bossshotshells.com/shotshells/bismuth/?Per_Page=24&Sort_By=disp_order&gauge=20%20GA
Walmart here in MI has Express 20 gauge 6's for $18 and change. They had Fed 28 gauge and some Game Load 16's. Quite a few 12ga target or field loads. One LGS has 410.s but they go dear. The rifle and rimfire choices are many. No doubt certain specific loads are scarce, but there seems to be no general shortage here. Dunhams has even a bigger selection. Prices, I fear, are up to stay.
Originally Posted by Blackfly1
If you think 20 bore shotshells are scarce, try finding slugs, especially sabots. And if you find them, it will melt your plastic, five to eight dollars each. Some are available on GB, not cheap and plus shipping. Haven't seen any in my LGS for nearly two years and those were not sabots. Of course I live in slug and buckshot only country.

Back in old times when I was working at Gander Mountain, just a few weeks before trout season opener, we got in two aisles of walleye and pike stuff. Walleye and Pike would be closed for two more months. PA's trout opener was almost as big a holiday as buck season opener.
Bfly

I’ve observed the frantic search for fancy sabot slugs on here for a while, re-enforcing my resolve to never get involved. Meanwhile, though it’s been decades since I used them in the field, I still play with Foster and Brenneke smoothbore types from time to time and still believe they serve a purpose for those who still have to use them, or who are blessed with overlapping deer and small game seasons, just a Francis E. Sell described back in the 60s. Just about any slug will be accurate enough for 50 yard shooting, and select examples have been perfectly fine to 100 yards.

Meanwhile, regulations allowing certain rifles in formerly shotgun-only states threaten IMO, the entire shotgun slug market. As more shooters switch over, sales will drop, which will cause a contraction in the availability of both slugs and guns designed to shoot them. Anyone who enjoys using slugs or that hunts in the places that don’t allow the new specialty rifles might want to either stock up or begin to cobble together the gear they need to roll their own. Another option is to switch to an inline or other ML.
Just bought a flat of Federal 7.5's from these guys..$98 shipped/250 count

Link is for heavy field #6 shot

https://www.gricegunshop.com/fedh2026-fed-game-shok-heavy-field-load-20ga-2-75.html
Grices is a shop you would like. I used to stop in there pretty often when i lved in PA. I hate to think how much plastic I melted there.
Bfly
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