I'm possibly looking to purchase the CZ-USA CZ Bobwhite G2 Project Upland 20 GA 28" 3" Side-By-Side Shotgun. I found this from Chuck Hawkes:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/hatfield-cz_shotguns.htm

I do not know much about Huglu or Hatfield and am somewhat confused as to which is which. I'm aware the SxS is made or comes from Turkey. Looking to purchase as a collectible. I believe that Chuck hawkes states in his synopsis the the G2 barrels are 'painted' and not blued. Is this the same for the Project upland? I seen one today but did not inspect the firearm. It did look good and the price is reasonable online.

A.) Does it have the Anson & Deeley Boxlock? From the CZ website, it shows 'discontinued' 2023. Again, I'm not versed with this brand shotgun. Any and all information is very much appreciated.

CZ Website: https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-bobwhite-g2-project-upland/

Here is quickie with some pics. Tell me what you guys think ? The only thing that concerns me is made in turkey.
[video:vimeo]https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/813668408[/video]

I bought a CZ Bobwhite, in 20ga, way back in 2005.

The gun has functioned flawlessly, and it has been shot quite a bit. We (my son will grab it when he hunts with his buddies) have shot steel, Hevi-Shot and TSS, all without problems.

It handles nicely, balances well and the barrels appear to be regulated properly.

All in all, a nice sxs. A very nice sxs when price is factored in.

Thanks very much for the input. However, upon conferring with Randy Wakeman, I've decided 'not' to purchase. Randy stated: "There is nothing collectible about it. In fact, the walnut is not well-figured at all. Huglo is not a quality gun. CZ has a nasty habit of discontinuing models". I respect and value his opinion.

If you want a "collectible" sxs, you will probably need to fork out more money than CZ costs.

* Yes, that's a given. The prices have gone up so high it's just not worth it. Moving into a different group of people. The return is difficult to obtain with the exorbitant prices.

There are over 20 pages of CZ Bobwhites listed on Gunbroker for sale. Only some are 28ga., but most are less than $800.
I own three (two 20's and a 28).

I've had zero problems with mine, and I've killed more birds with my first one than any other shotgun I own. I've taken it around the world because if it ever got lost in luggage it wouldn't break my bank. And I hit and hit and hit with it.

No reason not to own one IMO, except maybe as a "collector" unless they actually have now been discontinued. Buy it, shoot it, collect it!

"There are over 20 pages of CZ Bobwhites listed on Gunbroker for sale. Only some are 28ga., but most are less than $800".

'Not for the CZ Bobwhite G2 Uplander' > You're referring to the regular Bobwhite. I'm always looking at Gunbroker and GunsAmerica. According to Randy, they're not a collectible for that is specifically my field. The Uplander is more like $1300.00 - $1400.00 on Gunbroker but they can be had for $1100.00 on 'Gundeals'. If, and maybe if the Uplander was $800.00 then I would purchase. Most all the features are the 'same' irrespective of the alleged upgraded wood and fake side plates. In addition, the Uplander wears a black chrome finish whereas there were problems with the finish coming off just by using a rag to wipe down. CZ confirmed this by phone to me. I'm also aware of problems they experienced with the wood right at the outset, 'confirmed by CZ'. I've been looking at this for nearly two years. There are no automatic ejectors and the break open is somewhat stiff. AND, I belive that Chuck Hawkes stated CZ used a blow torch for that finish. The fact is many gun manufacturers are catering to the 'tactical' "junk" because that is what is selling, just like all the tactical pistols incorporating a picatinny rail and immersed in plastic: not for me. That is just the way it is. Thank you for the courtesy.

Synoptic,

My wife Eileen has owned a Huglu/Hatfield 28-gauge since 2004, when she came across the Hatfield booth at the SHOT Show--which if I ecall correctly before CZ started importing Huglus. (For a while Kimber also marketed Huglu shotguns under various names.)

The Hatfield company orders "rebranded" guns from various manufacturers. For quite a while they mostly sold Spanish-made guns, but switched to Turkish-made guns after Huglu guns started being imported here.

They're pretty good guns, but as the guy who runs the gun department at a local sporting goods store I frequent once noted, "You probably don't want to buy one for shooting Sporting Clays every weekend."

Eileen's28 is still working fine, but she owns a dozen shotguns and also uses her others frequently for various kinds of hunting and shooting.

The Huglu shotguns were also imported by DeHaan in Rigby, Idaho for a while and labeled as DeHaan's. He had some high end custom order versions with upgraded wood and engraving as I recall.

I sure would believe anything Chuck Hawks says.

"I believe you are correct".

"I sure would believe anything Chuck Hawks says".

That fact is a given. Randy Wakeman is adjoined to his work. I always refer to Chuck for the utmost details and facts. He has not ever provided or written anything amiss nor are his white papers ever off course. * And, Randy is versed in forensics, none better.

Yup,two peas in a pod right there.Any ass hole can have an opinion right or wrong on the innanet. Too bad most of theirs are biased towards what ever they are pimping at any given moment. Of course there are fools who just lap up all their bullshit.Carry on.

They are not and will never be collectible. As MD pointed out, as an occasional use hunting gun it will likely deliver very reasonable service. As a sporting clays gun it will likely need care in short order if it's like any of the others I have seen.

https://sendvid.com/x5nly826

I deleted the Vimeo link.

John, I have shot one of the CZ All American trap guns every Sunday, for 4 years now during our trap league. typically at least 100 shells a day. the gun still locks up tight and lever is still right of center. it's a hell of a lot of gun for the money

gitem 12,

Thanks for the information!

Am not familiar with that model. Do you know if it was made by Huglu?

The guy at the local gun store was reporting feedback from customers who'd bought various CZ doubles over the years, both SxS and O/U.

"Do you know if it was made by Huglu"? > I believe so. Who else would manufacture it?

Dunno--but as with Hatfield, CZ may have imported guns made in various countries. As have others, including not just "gun" but optics companies.

Are there any markings as to country of manufacture?

Would love to see a photo of the action area, especially open.

I have a CZ Bobwhite G2 20 ga, it is a very nice bird gun, very well made, also have 6 CZ rifles and they are awesome.

It says Turkey on the receiver or barrel. I did not take note of the specific markings for I got a rag and wiped the front top of the barrel and there was some black on the cloth. There was a problem with the black chrome as stated by CZ customer service. It may have been dirt but it just looked too black. The only photos I took are displayed in the video or posted here. I believe at this juncture, the point is somewhat moot. As to the knowledgeable people and a few here, they say its not collectible. A few are turned off at the Made in Turkey (Shotgun World). Randy Wakeman apparently took a disliking to it and I regard his commentary as a most valuable asset. Your take.

I own several CZ rifles, and have owned a bunch more. All I know of are made in their plant in the Czech Republic--which is how they are marked.

The CZ Bobwhites are made in Turkey. They are NOT made by CZ. They are imported by CZ-USA. (The same guns have been imported by several other firms, which was stated by various folks earlier in this thread.)

This thread is getting to be a lot like a thread on Zeiss optics, where quite a few believe they're all made in Germany. This hasn't been true for over 20 years....

"The CZ Bobwhites are made in Turkey. They are NOT made by CZ. They are imported by CZ-USA." Thanks very much for the courtesy and support.

I believe that you are correct. This is the CZ Bobwhite G2 Project Uplander. So, in this respect are the firearms that are made in Turkey worse than those coming out of the Czech Republic? Thanks very much for the courtesy and support.

CZ has been among the most respected rifle manufacturers in Europe, if not the world, for a long time--though lately they seem to be "aiming" more toward the "affordable" market.

In general the Huglu guns are regarded as also aimed toward the affordable market. Whether this is an indication of overall quality of the guns they make I don't know. But I do know that in the post-WWII marketplace, the trend has been for all sorts of companies to "outsource" their products, instead of manufacture them at company headquarters. And there are manufacturers all over the world that are capable and willing to manufacture products to a certain price-point. A good example is hunting optics, where even Zeiss has been having binoculars, spotting scopes and rifle scopes made in other countries--while still continuing to produce them in their German factories.

Thank you very much for the detailed information which has been most useful to me. Speaking of the item I was interested in the (CZ Bobwhite G2 Project Upland-20 Ga.), what would you pay for the shotgun? You know the gun business is strictly business. Again, the PU can be had for about $1100.00, yet your reply is truly accurate with 'outsourcing'. Sometimes that aspect could be good or bad. I've seen the item and the inletting and quality are fairly good, irrespective of maybe some black chrome on the receiver possibly wiping off. CZ would cover that and they would accept a return, they say. As to Randy Wakeman taking a dislike as well as Chuck Hawkes white paper is reason enough not to purchase. But, if, and maybe if I could obtain the shot gun (Double Triggers) 'Old School' for $800.00 (maybe not) or possibly $900.00 would you purchase? At this point, I would not purchase for over $900.00.

i also a CZ 20ga. side by side very nice shotgun , my problem is my son liked it too so i don`t have it anymore . dang kid !

All hail Huntz " the Nailer" right on the head huntz dead ctr...mb

I bought a Turkish CZ O/U a couple of years ago, their Redhead Premier All Terrain, a green coated 20 with mechanical triggers. I really wanted that gun to be my do-it-all shotgun, but it had issues (I hope those who’ve heard my whine about this before will forgive the repetition).

First, the action was so tight it was about all I could do to get it open. I endured that for a while, expecting it to ease a bit, but it seemed rather to grow worse. In addition, patterning (with a red dot mounted on the rib) revealed that the barrels shot 8” apart at 40 yards, totally unacceptable for a turkey gun. I initiated a repair order and sent it to CZ USA. The tech fixed the action issue, apparently by doing what the factory should have done in the first place, filing-to-fit. As to the patterning, he test-fired it at 20 yards and found it was 4” apart at that distance, and even sent me the targets. You don’t need to be mathman to figure out that 4” at 20 will likely be 8” at 40, and while he didn’t actually say so, I expect that means it meets their requirements. Not mine, so it’s gone. The episode demonstrates to me that QC ain’t a priority at Huglu, and CZ USA isn’t going to do much to correct issues with the ones they import.

Meanwhile, my neighbor bought one of their hammer guns, and loves it for rabbits. It will never see a pattern board of course. Another friend has a stunning special edition 28 SxS, a real showpiece, and has offered it to me at a really good price, even offered to let me shoot it, but I’m not tempted.

Synoptic,

Whether you want to buy the gun for $800 is up to you. I've owned some other Huglu guns, including a .410 side-by-side which worked fine. The main reason I sold it was deciding I liked the 28-gauge far better for a "sub-bore" shotguns.

Also owned and hunted with a semiauto 20-gauge marketed by yet another gun company, which worked fine for the 3-4 years I owned and hunted with it--and is still working great for the grandson of a friend of mine, who it eventually ended up with it.

Whether or not that applies to ALL Huglu shotguns is another question, but it seems like the majority work pretty well. If they didn't, they wouldn't still be available in the U.S.

John

Thanks John for the support.

Many guns not seeming to be collectable still have their values increase through the years...so, to me, you either buy a gun that may have some providence for collectability, or you pay up front for some 'limited availability' or quality for collectability.

Or, you just buy what you what you want and go shoot it and enjoy it for what it is, a tool used in the sport you shoot it at. And, later, your family hands it down and becomes cherished by them.

YMMV but I think that a side by side i that configuration would be a fun gun to have. My safe is filled with O/U's though, with the exception of one stoeger sxs - owned by my dad - so priceless to me.

-John

Very well stated and I certainly agree with you. I've thought about those things you make mention of. I'ts too bad that I cannot see the shotgun when purchasing online. Sure, I could send it back to CZ but wish not to indulge in the hassle. The gun shop has one but their price is far too much at $1399.00. That's just a rip off. If it were Italian or German, I would purchase. However, as John pointed out quite clearly 'outsourcing' has become a way, not only CZ but many others. Thanks very much for the support.

The world of collectible shotguns is expensive, complex, and pitfall laden. Repairing the old collectible SxSs is very expensive, and most always not worth it. Fatal problems in shotguns can be hard to identify and so you have to be sure of what you buy. There are a lot of problem guns masquerading as bargains. New collectible SxSs are going to be well north of $5000 and probably closer to $10,000 and more.

If a person wants to collect SxSs that will appreciate, he will need substantial experience in the market, or a knowledgeable person to guide him.

Buying a perfectly serviceable shotgun for hunting is a different matter and can be done with the usual amount of research.

JMHO

Well, that is understandable. I've conferred numerous times with Randy Wakeman and he really took some offense to the CZ brand as being discontinued on a yearly basis. I've contacted CZ-USA twice regarding the details of the Uplander Bobwhite. Naturally, the CZ is not a Rizzini, Fausti, or Beretta. However, if I could obtain the shotgun in a 20 ga. for the right price, I will. There are some issues, the metal is of a lower grade as before the Pandemic according to CZ. And the chrome bluing (Black chrome) is wiping off with a rag as dully witnessed by the gun shop owner. He agreed for it was him using the rag for the second time. He was selling for $1399.00 allegedly marked down from $1699.00 as I would not ever pay either of those prices. He said he would call CZ and see if they would take a couple of hundred off. More so, he is probably going to call his distributor. Again, the CZ Bobwhite Uplander can be had for $1076.00 by a few people online, yet one cannot view them. I pointed this out to the gun shop person (Owner's son) and he said they're probably taking a loss for he said he paid $1176.00. How true that is is unknown to me. I would not pay more than $900.00.

Cz said they would return my money if they could not re-chrome, replace with compatible model, or offer a refund. I explicitly stated I did not wish to have any refund or compatible model. In turn Cz said they then would refund my money. The item is discontinued as of 2023 and most likely there are none. He was laughing so I'm not keen on being entrapped. Your take?

" . . . Your take?"

Due to the inherent SxS design, i.e. soldering two barrels together and making them shoot to the same point of aim, it is impossible to make a good SxS for cheap. This is exacerbated by the low demand for these "old fashion" guns, which only increases per-item manufacturing costs. Accordingly, to make a SxS for cheap, compromises are inescapable and will include poor assembly or cheap design, and usually both. Thus, the economy SxS will be heavy, won't swing well, the barrels won't be properly regulated, the action will be too loose or too tight, low quality wood, low quality wood finish, and other poor fit and finish issues, etc. And, a poorly made gun won't appreciate in price.

In other words, if one wants to play in the SxS sandbox, he either has to pay a higher price than other shotgun designs, or accept a low quality gun. CZ makes great rifles and handguns (I own many of both), but CZ does not make (or market) great SxS shotguns. CZ sells serviceable budget SxSs, with the compromise and resulting potential issues noted above. I am not saying that you can't take a CZ SxS hunting and have a good time. In fact, a hunter will shoot just as many birds and have just as much fun doing so with a CZ as with the most expensive Purdy or Holland & Holland. The old analogy that you get the same gallon of milk at the grocery store whether you drove a Toyota or a Porsche applies.

Though prices have risen lately, look to spanish brands for good SxS value, although there are spanish makers who produce economy (i.e. potentially problamatic) guns, so a buyer still has to be careful. Turkey is producing many affordable SxSs, now, but a buyer has to be very selective to get a reasonably good gun. A buyer can find decent SxSs priced fairly on the used market, but it takes a lot of knowledge to get a good gun with no issues at a fair price. For example, used SKBs can be a good buy. But buying used is tricky because, due to the expense of repairing a SxS, many people just dump their problem gun on Gunbroker (I've fallen victim to this ploy more than once). In the mean time, read the many books written on SxS guns (for a start, Michael McIntosh was a respected and prolific author on the subject, for example), and talk with experienced shooters and collectors.

JMHO

I have a pair of the dehaan sxs,s a 20 and 12, left hand versions, besy i can tell theres 3300 rounds thru the 12, over 2100 thru the 20, no issues

Also a 20 o/u , left hand gun, over 6000 rounds, i shoot it few times a week, and did shooting sporting clays 3 or 4 days a week for a few years, never a hiccup,
Its my main hunting gun, rides on tge handlebars of motorcyckes, scabbard on the mule, ect. It goes everywere,,,

Out of my wheelhouse so far I'm up a mountain,
but I gotta.....🤪🤪🤪🤪

Even though I'm only commenting on reports from others.



Watch some YouTube videos on Turkish pumps and semis.
The guys who test them hard see them fail.
Almost certainly.

In my almost worthless opinion, if they can't copy an 870 and make it work,
I'm not into their 2 barrel guns.


But they sure do tempt. A 28ga double for a week's paycheck!

What do you want from a gun? How much does the money mean?
To some, any SxS is the same as a Purdy or Merkle.
To others, they will end up seeing it as hundred$ wasted and they still
don't have what they want.

I recently went through the same process. Looked hard at the CZ bobwhite. I wasn’t concerned with collectibility but wanted a solid hunting gun with 2 triggers straight grip and screw in chokes. After researching all of the available options from CZ to Dickenson to Fausti and FAIR, I settled on the FAIR Iside as the best bang for the buck. $1700ish.