Starting this thread to avoid derailing the Close-In Deer Rifle thread.

I'm getting my feet wet hunting black bears. They rarely go over 300 pounds around here and most of them will be within 100 yards. I want to keep tracking to a minimum because I'm hunting on tree farms in western Washington and the brush is super thick. Season runs from August 1 to November 15, so I can probably afford to pass on shots that aren't exactly what I want. Methods include calling and still hunting.

I'm looking for input from the experienced bear hunters among us on rifles, cartridges, iron sights, optics, shot placement, training, preparation, or anything else that matters.

What do I need to know?

Thanks,


Okie John

Not as experienced as many…..but, am highly opinionated!

Learn a little about bear anatomy, use a quality bullet that will assure an exit wound (the more they leak, the easier the tracking if needed), and a slightly larger diameter round can’t hurt!

We’ve taken bears with, .270 Win with 150 Partitions, .375 H&H with 300 grain Sierra SPBT (which I would “never” recommend), a .338 WM with a 225 TTSX, and a 44 Mag using cast bullets. It doesn’t require anything special, placement is important….all of the other stuff is just a little added insurance! memtb

35 Whelen for every thing

We have killed Black Bears with a .350 REM mag, .308, .257 Weatherby and a 6mm REM. All neck shots and 1 behind the shoulder with the .257 Weatherby. Bears weighed up to 350 pounds. Oh, and a .358 Win

As stated, shot placement is key.

A lighted crosshair of some kind makes life easy. A black bear coming out at last light can be a challenge. The cross hair will disappear quickly when laying it on that pitch black fur despite being able to spot the Bear.

Thutty-thutty probably killed more than any other one caliber. Doesn't mean it is ideal. Just that it works.

Same as my close in deer rifle:
.35 whelen 7600.

Keeps life simple.

For blind/stand shots, last one I shot was ~400lbs, 6.5x55 with 140gn Gold Dots, full pass-through collarbone to hindquarter. Bear never moved, just exhaled and that was it. For a planned shot, whatever works for whitetail is going to work for black bear.

For brush busting, 9.3x62 hasn't not worked yet. 338-06 or 8mm-06 would be good, too, if you're into semi-wildcats.

The OP stated "brush is super thick" and "I want to keep tracking to a minimum." Marlin Guide Gun 45-70 would be a good choice. I have a couple of friends that guide Black bear hunts and that's what they carry. I'm sure anything mentioned so far will work. Just thought the 45-70 should be on the list.

I'm on board with the 35 Whelen. I think it's the perfect black bear round. 250gr Speer spitzerss or 220gr flat points.

Black bears aren't hard to kill unless they get riled up. A .30-30 or a .357 Magnum pistol work up close.

A .35 Whelen might be a good choice I had one but it went to a relative headed for Alaska.

A 12 or 20 gauge Ithaca Deerslayer smoothbore with a scout scope, loaded with Brennekes is near ideal in my opinion as I can still shoot a grouse if I get a chance.

358 Winchester and a fixed power shotgun scope.

I bought a Shaw barrel from MidwayUSA and put it on a Savage .270 win.
Speer 250"s out to 200 yds kills pigs VERY DEAD.

i use Starline brass and 45 grains of BLC-2 and a Win large rifle primer.

Its my pig gun here in Texas.

Best
Heavy

+1 for the 45-70, quick and handy in a Marlin Guide gun

30-06 or 308 with Partitions in 150 or 165gr. These are the only good choices; other than the 270, 280, 300 Savage, 358 and a bunch of others. I’d sure not stay home if a 30-30 was my only rifle.

i'd go with either the 30-30 or the 35 Remington. i have shot a 396lbs black bear with a 308 Winchester with 150 Hornady RN and IMR4064.

if i where to do it all again, i'd go with my TC Encore in a 23" MGM barrel in 444 Marlin and 280gr WFN GC with Reloder 7 or the Winchester m94 with Williams FP aperture sight in 35/30-30 with 200gr RCBS FN GC and 2400/tuft of dacron.

Same rifle as a close in deer rifle. I like a compact 20" or shorter bolt gun with a low power scope on it. Cartridge doesn't matter much, I like 308, but 7-08 or any other short action using bullets on the heavier end will kill them. No need for more power for black bear, it just makes for a heavier gun and the recoil just slows down repeat shots. With practice a bolt gun is just as fast for "AIMED" repeat shots and they tend to be lighter and more accurate. If you're doing it right you don't need repeat shots.

And just like for close in deer hunting laser like accuracy and flat trajectory are at least as important as in long range work. Where I hunt 20-100 yard shots through wooded areas are the norm. And 200–300 yard shots present themselves on rare occasions. More often than not there is only a softball sized area of the game animal visible at 20-100 yards. It takes a decent amount of accuracy to hit the vitals while missing the brush.

And don't discount flat trajectory. My 308, or any similar cartridge if zeroed at 100 yards won't be more than 1" above or below line of sight from the muzzle out to 130ish yards. A 30-30, 45-70, 44 mag or other lever action cartridge will be 3" to 4" above or below line of sight at the same ranges and are more likely to hit brush rather than shoot through the holes in brush.

You don't need optics to hit a deer or bear standing in the open in good light at typical woods ranges. But they don't ever seem to do that for me. A quality, low powered scope lets you SEE deer/bear in low light and helps you SEE the brush you're trying to avoid.

That's what I consider ideal. Doesn't mean something else won't work.

My pick as well. And it actually is my pick as this is the kind of Bear hunting I do and Marlin 45-70 is my arm of choice

.358 Winchester ,.35 Remington , 45-70 , Lever or pump.

I have the understanding that black bear and large hogs require similar bullet performance from an expansion and penetration standpoint. I think the average bear would require slightly more penetration while the average “large” hog will be a slightly tougher medium.

Based on my “research” on lots of test subjects, a 208 gr 30 cal Hornady ELD m driven at roughly 2700 fps, or about as fast as you want to push a 30-06, is the best answer. It gets the job done up close and has the legs to reach out as far as I’m good enough to shoot a stalking rifle. Delivers great penetration while opening up some nasty wounds. It’s not a meat saver, but it gives a large volume cylinder of destruction that prevents much movement.

The wounding tends to be so traumatic, even marginally shot animals rarely are capable of moving far. The sectional density is such that even with the violent nature expansion and fragmentation you get more than sufficient penetration. The best rifle is simply the one that delivers that pill the best for you. For me it’s a bolt rifle with CRF that feels good in my hands, has a nice trigger, and a good low light scope.

Ok. Bizarre post.

Many calibers will work fine, as always, it’s shot placement that counts.

Most important is where to shoot them. I suggest your bullet point of impact be a little further back than you would shoot a deer when broadside. Aim about 3-4 inches behind the crease of the shoulder. If they are facing you on all fours, shoot them in the head. Any deer rifle with a good controlled expansion bullet, like a partition, will do just fine. Bears with a lot of fat in the fall are less likely to leave heavy blood trails because the holes plug with fat and fur.

Perhaps it was a “bizarre post”. I wrote it while easing through a wooded swamp using a rifle as described writing somewhat stream of consciousness about why I was carrying the rifle I was.

What about it is so bizarre?

Yes sir that Rifle/Chambering is one of the most usable guns in my collection for woods hunting here in PA, WV, and New York.

To the OP, black bears arent especially hard to kill. No need to go to Magnum or Safari rifle territory, unless you already have one and shoot it well. My 260lb PA bear was shot at 20yds with 2 240gr 44 Mag Hardcasts out of a Ruger Super Redhawk while I was a driver amd went maybe 75yds and my 305lber was DRT at 60yds with a 180gr from an '06. DRT killed one in Maine at 40yds over bait with a 265gr Interlock out of my 444 Marlin. Good friend of mine has killed 3 over 400lbs here in PA with a 7-08 and 140 Partitions. None travelled far at all. Take a "deer rifle" with good bullets and make shot in the vitals and you will have a dead bear. I have seen them killed with rifles in 243 on up, handguns and shotguns.

More importantly I have seen them missed or wounded and unrecovered by guys thinking they needed to have a "big gun" that they dont shoot well or often!!!

I think it’s bizarre that a guy can post a response while easing through a swamp with a rifle. Also infers some darn good manual dexterity and stellar multitasking!

This one would be hard to leave behind on such a hunt. It's a Pre-64 .358 Win FWT with 3-9x40 Trijicon duplex/dot.

Current fav load is the 178 Shock Hammer over RL-7. I've shown this one before, am impressed with Hammer bullets and do like the .358 Win.

DF

Well, I guess a more accurate description would be I was walking a low levee road with swamp on both sides of me, but at the time of that response I didn’t foresee that being particularly significant.

That statement to me, plus the 100 yard shot screams big diameter and bullets that will completely pass through and leave big holes.

Bears are not that tough to kill, but can cover ground after the shot. Not something you want in thick cover especially with sparse blood. If It happens you want blood on the ground.

From my safe, I would grab one of the following:
338-06 with a 200gr NAB or Ballistic Silvertip.
416 Rem Mag with 350gr A-Frame
Marlin 45-70 with 300/350gr Hornady or 350gr A-Frame
Ruger 450 Bushmaster with 245gr or 250gr Hornady

A lever action with a 16" barrel in 358 might work. LOL

This is what I'm looking to avoid.


Okie John

It looks like you've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread already so I don't have anything profound to add. But I agree with CRS's opinion that based on your criteria, a larger more powerful bullet would be my preferred option over something lighter but still adequate. If I was reaching into my safe I would grab:

30-06
9.3x74r
375 H&H
405 Winchester

One of the other members of this forum, CZ550 (aka Bob Mitchell), is an avid bear hunter. He also has a penchant for the larger bores. He seems to enjoy writing about his hunts so you might find something useful in your research by scanning his blog especially if you reload like he does:

http://www.bigbores.ca/

Lots of 358 wins recommended, I'll add another one. My bear rifle for pa thick cover is a sako in 358 win 18" barrel fiberglass stock vortex 1x8 viper shooting 250 gr nosler partitions. Weighs 7 1/2 lbs

Any tube feed lever with flat nose jacketed or cast gas checks from 270 gr weight on up using Deep Curls, Barnes Busters, Swift A-Frames, Rimrock GC, etc. 45-70 or 444 Marlin would suffice nicely from 50-200 yards. Both have the ability to penetrate up to 60” from any angle and provide wounding that rivals .375 or .416 bottle neck bolt gun cartridges at 100-150 yards. Both provide substantial wounding and trauma with substantial blood loss. The other benefit is 5 rounds in a fast action, short barreled lever rifle. Can’t see a better close quarter set up than these two for large game in dark places.

Marlin .45-70 Gov't Guide Gun with Barnes TSX 300 gr. Bullets would be my choice for the scenario. Before someone now points out, that the .45-70 does not need premium bullets - quite true.

The 300 grains TSX .458 is an outstanding bullet in its own right for the .45-70. I have used it for years on countless hogs and what really caught my eye were the copious blood trails from the reliably fully expanded .458" bullet - goes out to close to an inch.

My load was scary accurate with 5 shots around an inch at 100 yards - way better than needed.

Fit a nice scope (Meopta R2 1,7-10x42 with lighted reticle would be my choice) and I find it hard to think of a better setup for the scenario.

Iv taken 3 black bears, using 44-77 40-70 Sharps and good old 45-70, rem 405 , bear was over 400lbs

My vote is .45-70 using a good handloaded 400gr FT or semi-hardcast 465-475gr. I've used Marlins and single-shots for those loads and bears have been flattened on the spot without CNS hits - and shot placement isn't nearly as critical as with smaller calibers. And I've used .35 Whelens and 9.3 x 62s and 7 Rem Mags and.... NOTHING has worked like a .45-70!

In fact, my last blog was about the .45-70 as my no.1 choice for punching well above expectations.

Another point I'd like to emphasize is that bear hunting is my speciality and I always go perpared for a worst case scenario - an in-your-face-charge! With too many experiences I've learned a couple of very important matters: how smart they are and how treacherous they can be.

It's the careless/casual hunter that gets mauled or killed by them!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

If I was going specifically for black bear I'd take my 350 RemMag out for some exercise. I have some 225gr Partition and 250gr corelokt loaded ammo on hand that should work fine. The rifle has a 1.5-5x20 Vari-X III mounted and should cover anything from "Oh [bleep]" range to 250 yds pretty well.

But any of the rifles I use for deer also work for black bear - 30/30, 300 Sav, .308 Win, maybe just move to heavier bullets in the 170-180gr range. Heck, one of my uncles killed one with a 38-40 Colt Lightning (many years ago).

We like 180,200 and 220 grain partitions in the 308 and 30/06. Always exit although bears don’t leave much of a blood trail. All our shots have been under a hundred yards, mostly using aperture sights.

If 358’s are good, here is a pair, both made in 56. I’ve never seen a bear in the wild, would cshit if I did.

My vote is for the 4570. I have seen several taken by others with that. My bears were taken with 7remmag 169gr aflame, 33806 210gr partition, 358win 225gr partition. Use what you shoot well and are comfortable with. Saw one that was shot with a 450 marlin. You could put your fist in the exit.

A 308 Win will kill any black bear at any range from your boots to 350 yards. Black bear aŕe no harder to kill than deer and are not bulletproof.

the .444 Marlin would be ideal for this application

That is why I think a bigger holes= more blood on the ground.

Perfect world, shot placement that breaks the bear down immediately would be best. Like a CNS or high shoulder shot. Unfortunately in the real world, pinpoint shot placement does not happen all the time.

Not as sexy as many of those mentioned, but a Savage 220 20ga slug gun should work well under 100 yards.

okie, In my previous post, I failed to mention that as we have a few bears…..my next will be taken with my S&W 460 XVR using my 400 grain cast bullets, or my Marlin GG 45-70 using my 430 grain cast bullets!

Either will give exits from any angle, and break, shatter, or puncture anything they contact during their quick passage through the bear……any bear! 😉 memtb

I've taken a few over the years. For the rifle, I used bolt actions. For the cartridge, I've killed them with a 270win and 150gr corelokts, 150gr partitions. I'd use the same today if that's what I had. Any of the larger calibers would also work well. I'd wait for a broadside shot and shoot for the lungs. No special training needed. Just put the bullet through both lungs. Black bears are not hard to kill Ime. Ymmv.

Google Cutting Edge and Hunter bullets. Lots of internal damage on critters. I like Hammer a bit more than CEB’s due to their design. Both have impressive terminal performance and are perfect .358 Win bullet choices for such animals.

DF

More about bullet then guns of cartridges.
I have killed them with handguns in 357 mag ,44 mag and 45 Colt
I have killed them with rifles in 270 Winchester, 30-06, 35 Remington, 375H&H and 45-70
I killed 1 with a 58 caliber muzzleloader and a round ball.
I have seen a lot more killed with all kinds of guns and cartridges.


My opinion is that any "deer caliber" with a bullet that doesn't break up badly is just fine.

Anything deer worthy works on black bears.

Most likely 270win and 308win are the least expensive hunting cartridges you can find. If I were limited to factory ammo for these I'd be just fine with Federal blue box I've seen a lot of things killed with it.

350 Legend in an AR

I’d be real happy with a .350 legend slinging a 180 grain PowerPoint, that’s what I’m planning on the boy using in 2025, I’ll keep using my #45 longbow. Bear have never struck me as particularly hard to kill if hit remotely well.

Well, the title of the thread was. A close in rifle for Black bear." Being a rather cowardly sort when it comes to animals with teeth that bite and claws that scratch I take sort of a dim view of guns that are potentially lightweight for the job at hand. My experience with bears of any sort come down an incident of one. Gun used was a .38 Spl. and as it was the only gun in camp it worked well enough. FWIW, the gun was an S&W 8/44 Outdoorsman loaded with 38/44 level ammo so is actually close to a .357 magnum. I'm very sorry I ever sold it but was lucky enough to find a replacement which I will never sell.

On a rifle for up close and personal, probably a Savage or BLR in .358 as I have both. My .35 Whelens are a bit too long for close in work and I have no plan to cut one down anytime soon. I could go with a .308 or 30-06 using heavy for caliber bullets. Close in to me is 50 or so yards or less so very flat trajectories mean little in this situation. Frankly, my favorite hunting rifles are my Ruger #1s and I've practice with them enough times that I can get off a second shot fairly quickly shot that be necessary. That leaves the choice quite open from 7x57 to .416 Rigby, although going from the lower to the upper on the list would be going from the sublime to the ridiculous. I do have a #1 in 45-70 and have a 330 gr. HP, 405 gr. flat nose and 510 gr. round nose, flat point in cast bullet molds and loads worked up. Probably anyone of the three would flatten a bear quickly. Then again I have a lightweight Ruger M77 chambered to the .375 Taylor. Same power level as the .375 H&H in a light package.
Back up gun roy be either Ruger 4 5/8s Super Blackhawk or Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley 5.5" using John Linebaugh's load data.

Biggest problem would be which one to choose. Somehow, I don't think eanie, meanie, miney moe is gonna work.
PJ

I’d go with the 458 SOCOM if using an AR platform. I’m not knocking the capabilities of the 350 legend.

.35 Whelen has worked for me. Where I hunted bears in Canada, the bear get into a swamp really quick, and tend not to leave blood trails.

180 Barnes ttsx in the 358 btw.

The 160 TTSX was the best shooting Barnes in my .358 Win.

DF

Ammo as cheap for the Socom?

I just put together a Kimber Montana in .338 Federal for doing exactly this.
Short and light for easy maneuvering through the thick stuff, but capable for longer shots if needed.

Close-in bear rifle? This Marlin 1895 45-70 would fit the bill. All though I could have have dropped it on this little guy and killed it. 😁

Didn’t know they made a 160 grain 35 caliber bullet. They do for .338

You're right, my bad.

It was the best shooting Barnes in my .338-06. Senior moment??

The 178 gr. Shock Hammer is my best .358 Win bullet yet, both accuracy and terminal performance. Expensive but worth it.

DF

225 Accubond in 35 Whelen even hit mid ship thus deer only made it 1/2 a body length and dropped deed

35 calibers are a hammers

I have a Marlin 45/70 SBL and have shot several Whitetail does. I know that is not a bear but have no doubt it would work great. I put a Leupold 2-7x scope on it. Seems a great close cover combo to me.

The year I got supplemental bear tag to my elk tag, I used my 50 cal Hawken cap-lock loaded with a 320gr Maxi-Ball. I also carried my Ruger SBH with my heavy handloads. Didn't need either one for bears. Turns out my tag was the best repellent available.
:-)

I'm with this guy. If I can't have that, maybe a BLR in 358.

356 Win in Model 94 Big Bore

On my only bear hunt (unsuccessful), I carried a .375-06 JDJ and a 9.3x62. My buddy carried a .35 Win and a .358 Win. The locals (Maine) made sport of us for bringing such "big guns". The guide's buddy killed a bear while we were there with a Jam-O-Matic in .308 and the guide uses a Browning BLR .270 with 130gr Core-Lokts for everything in Maine, including moose.

Thread was asking close in/close cover. No one is debating whether a 6mm on up to a 9.3mm would kill a black bear, the debate is what firearm and cartridge is best suited in close contact in heavy timber and thickets. That would entail open sites, or a red dot, or a very low power scope in 2.5x20mm, short barrel (16-20 inches) fast handling firearm. Taking an over scoped turn bolt with 400-500 yard bean field cartridge potential or scoped 24 inch, 9lbs 9.3mm turn bolt gun into dark places expecting a 50-75 yard shot is not optimal for said conditions. Any tube feed lever 30-30 WCF, 356 WCF, 375 WCF, 444 Marlin or 45-70 shooting FN jacketed or cast GC in open sighted, red dotted or very low power configuration would be a much better setup per the OP. One could use a BLR or Rem 7600 in 308 WCF as well if sighted properly for close cover work. I suppose anything could work, but it wouldn’t necessarily be the optimal close cover setup.

Thanks for bringing this thread back around. I have open-country bear hunting covered with a particularly accurate Model 70 Classic in 30-06.

I'm looking at calling and still-hunting. The references I've seen and the people I've talked to make me think that shots will be well under 100 yards. I've scouted the land and the brush is crazy thick. I'll be hunting alone so I want a margin of safety in the rifle and cartridge. I've also spent a lot of time shooting offhand for the last few months since that's the shot I'll likely get.

I can run a bolt gun well at speed so I've been thinking of a short 35 Whelen but this thread is making me think of a short 45-70 lever gun instead.


Okie John

I think you've narrowed it down to excellent choice "A" vs excellent choice "B". It's nice whenever you can flip a coin and win with either a head or a tail.

Personally, I would buy both just to be sure by doing an actual real world comparison. But that's because I'm always looking for a rationalization to acquire another rifle.

Now you've done it! We're going to get schooled on using a 6x scope for close-in hunting again.

A lot of good advise here. I’ve only killed 3 but been on many with friends that only hunted bear. Chased and raised hounds. Sadly all are gone. A dependable and familiar rifle with good bullets will get her done.
One friend wanted to experiment outside the box and bought a Benelli R1 semi auto .30-06. Seen him drop Mule deer at 565yds in Idaho with it. As a typical gun loony and was on a .3338-06 kick. He sent the rifle to JES reboring in Oregon and had it rebored to .338-06. He commenced to hammer several elk and large hog. The biggest was a fluke 411lb.’s at 12 yards. Usually in the 120-275lb. Range. He used the Barnes 210 grain TSX exclusively. An absolute hammer, accurate and perfect expansion. It also can be utilized with a 10 round magazine. No bolts or levers to run and surprisingly narrow and svelt. It has the Argo system, reliable as could be. If a semi auto is legal in your jurisdiction, it would be hard to beat.
He also left to higher grounds 3 months ago. Now a rifle loony who talked his rifle loony friend into acquiring “ wasn’t hard” more toys, has to help liquidate all.

Since you hunt solo like me most of the time. It is prudent to have total confidence in all your equipment. You are the only one who is going to deal with any situation. If murphy comes knocking and you are prepared, you will deal with it confidently. There are a lot of experienced hunters on this forum, heed their advise. Best of luck to you and safe hunting.

You, of course, don't have to take my word on it, but there's no comparison between those two: I've used both and certainly a .35 Whelen will kill any bear with a good bullet through heart and lungs (where're NOT talking a CNS hit that would only be by chance in a "shoot now in-your-face" situation) but it will travel some distance (variable) before it stops breathing. On the other hand, a good 400 - 405gr+ at 1800 - 2000 fps in .458" will STOP any bear right there with a heart-lung shot ( a flat-point expanding assumed). I've witnessed both scenarios being solo in those hunts, and I mostly hunt in close quarters like your upcoming hunt.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

OP glad you brought up this subject. Have been mulling over the idea of hunting bear in the western part of my state this fall. Kind of feel like I've been leaving an opportunity on the table. Think this will legitimize my decision to re-bore my M70 to 9.3X62. Will also give me the excuse to get the Trijicon 1-4x with the #4 reticle. I think CRS is on the right track here. Make a big, long hole that encourages leaking!

Bob I totally believe you and respect your opinion. While in Alaska a few years ago. A local friend hunts Brown’s with a tricked out Marlin 1895 .45-70 with Garrett 405 gr. HC bullets and hammers them, instant lights out. What’s not to like.

Thanks. This is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish.


Okie John

I have great love for the 9.3x62. I'm looking at the Whelen because I can load pistol bullets at reduced velocities for practice. Based on a little bit of experience loading them in a M-700 Classic in 35 Whelen, I could get in a lot of offhand training that way. Makarov bullets might work for that in the 9.3, but I've never tried it.

I got a 1-4 Trijicon on the fire a few days ago. It's on a 308 for offhand training right now and I'm delighted with it. I'm looking for a Whelen or 45-70 right now but the season opens on 01 AUG and I may just take the 308 with 150-grain Barnes factory ammo.


Okie John

Study black bear anatomy .. cross section pictures, etc. Stuff inside is arranged a little different .. heart location in particular.

Washington Coast Range / Olympic Peninsula ... so far as gear ... guns, ammo, optics ... use whatever you use for elk there. I'd say start with .270 and 150s. Smaller things kill both but there's more odds of error / failure. No need for a magnum but if you have one and shoot it well for elk, use it. You mention iron sights .. they can work but, just the same as elk hunting, if you're back under timber on a cloudy, rainy day, they can be mighty hard to see.

I've hunted deer and elk in western Washington for 30+ years but I wanted to hear from bear hunters. All of this is exactly what I've been thinking. I gave up on iron sights long ago. Illuminated reticles are far superior but thought someone might be able to make a convincing case for them.


Okie John

Have hunted black bears from the "lower 48" to Alaska, and guided for them some here in Montana. My biggest was taken on Vancouver Island in British Columbia with a 12-gauge slug gun--a boar which probably weighed close to 500 pounds. (The hide squared around 7 feet, and the skull measured 22 inches.)

Have grown very fond of illuminated reticles, or at least a fiber-optic front sight if using "irons." While black bears come in different colors, probably most are black or very dark brown.

On one occasion I was sent a scope to use on an upcoming black bear hunt, with one of those very fine "ballistic" reticles with multiple aiming points. I pre-tested it by hanging one of my black black-bear hides in a tree, and trying to aim with the reticle at last legal light. Couldn't even see the center of the reticle against the hide at 50 yards, so passed on using the scope. Told the manufacturer's PR guy why, and he got pretty uppity about it....

I have two friends who hunt Black bears professionally. Between the two, they've killed a tremendous amount of bears over the years. One uses a Savage 99 in .308 Win., And the other uses a Rem. 600 carbine in .308 Win. They've had no problems killing Black bears with their .308s.

I've only killed two Black bears and both with my Rem. 725 .280 Rem. with my 160 grains Nosler Psrtition handloads. I am no expert on Black bears but the .280 worked just fine for me. A good friend of mine killed a 300 pound Black bear with his .44 Mag. Ruger Super Blackhawk revolver. Two shots. DRT. He used a handload but I do not recall what it was.

FWIW.

L.W.

i have a 1936 Husqvarna m46 in 9.3x57 with 275gr WFN GC and IMR4895 that goes 1800 - 1900fps. i have a 2-7x Leopold scope. my gunsmith bent the bolt handle, D&T for a scope, 2 position Buehler safety, cocking piece and a speed lock striker spring (made it cock on opening). i've killed about 4 or 5 deer with it at ranges under 60 yards. the deer never take a step, so can't say on the tracking possibilities.

dang Europeans made a secret about the 9.3mm. but i showed them!!!





8x57 to 9.3x57

[img]https://i.imgur.com/WSr6Mjx.jpg?5[/img]

tdoyka, what a fantastic rifle! It's rifles like this that make me envious of Right handers. There are many new rifles out there that have limited lefty options but I can generally get something I want. What I can never have are the older classics that were never lefty.

tdoyka, what a fantastic rifle! It's rifles like this that make me envious of Right handers. There are many new rifles out there that have limited lefty options but I can generally get something I want. What I can never have are the older classics that were never lefty.

Edit: I can't imagine a better "close in bear rifle" that this.

dang lefties, they are pieces of......hey!!! wait a minute!!!! i am a leftie!!!

i owned a couple leftie bolt actions, but i prefer them to be right.

1944 '98 Mauser in 8x57



the only time i did not, was in Basic Training (US Army). my rifle was an M16A1 that didn't have a brass deflector. a M16A2, A3, A4 and M4 rifles all have it. i was at shooting range, minding my own business, when a target came up, i shot and next thing i remember is a burning feeling on my face cheek and the chin strap. i quickly got to knees, rifle was still pointed downrange and i said "ShXX,ShXX,ShXX..." while trying to dislodged the 5.56 casing. my drill segreant looked at me hungrily like a piece of meat at the slaughterhouse and he was coming to me with a look of pus ups, heel kicks and running in place (the old front, back, go). then i turned my head to the DI and pointed at my burn. he stopped, looked at me, said "carry on" and then he turned around laughing. then sometime later, he gave me a brass deflector to put on my M16A1.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImages/141085/964790932/wm_4083681.jpg

The Euro version of the 358Winchester. Nice rifle and perfect for it's intended use.

This one is perfect for a lefty and perfect for bear up close as well. 760 in 30-06 cut to 20". This one was sold but I missed it so had another the same done up. It's topped with a Leupold 1.5-5 but is drilled for a receiver sight as well.

Ah the M16A1. I learned to button that top button real quick. Nothing like a string on hot brass catching your collar and slow rolling to the small of your back.

SuperCub, I had carbine "jam-o-matic" in 30-06 for a while. Would far rather have had the pump. If the right one comes along.....

IIRC .... William makes a lefty safety for those rifles.

i had a 308 in Remington m760 but i sold her. my dad (RIP) gave me an '06 that is Remington m760 and my son has my grandpap's '06 in Remington m760 too. it's a PA thing.

Marlin 1894 .44 magnum lever gun with 250 grain cast WFNGC ammo.

Ron

There a lot of them in Ontario as well. I grew up there, so that's how I got into them.

That would be a good one.

back when i was 12yo almost everybody had either a Winchester m94 in 30-30 or a Remington m760 in '06. there was the 270 Winchester bolt action and 32 Winchester Special in m94 and a smidgeon of other calibers, but at the end of the day it was a m94 or m760. then around 1990s it changed to bolt action and a super-duper magnumitis. i never got into the mags, but i shot several of them. my first rifle was a 1972 Winchester m94 in 30-30. i can't tell you how many deer i killed with that same rifle. i put her back in the safe and i just plain forgot about her. then five years ago, i sent her to JES Reboring and it came back a 35/30-30. i put on a Williams FP aperture and 200gr RCBS FN GC with 2400/tuft of dacron and it goes 1726fps. i have killed three deer with the 35/30-30. 2 big does at 25ish yards and one buck at 53 yards. the velocity could go up to near 35 Remington, but why bother?

sighting the 35/30-30 in

I like my Ruger M77 stainless in 375 Ruger. It has a 20 inch barrel and a Trijicon 1x4 scope with a post and illimunited triangle. I also have a Marlin 45-70 with a peep site. I also had JES rebore a 760 to 9.3x62. All are handy in the brush.

358 Win or 35 Whelen.

I'm happy with my .375 WIN. 200 or 250 Gr.

HS 58

OGB: No need to look for a pump. Ahlmans will convert a semi automatic.
Curing 742 Chamber Rust ©

by Larry Ahlman





Maybe you've never heard of chamber rust -- the creeping cancer that destroys autoloading deer rifles. But if you own a Browning BAR, Remington 742 or a Winchester 100, it will pay to be informed.



Gathering your gear and packing for a deer hunt is lots of fun. But, it's hard to find fun when the hunt is over and you're putting it all back. Most hunters want to get this unpleasant task completed as quick as they can, so they toss their gear in the nearest closet. DON'T DO IT This shortcut could cause the demise of your favorite autoloading deer gun. The gun may have chamber rust and you're about to ignore it.



While walking the woods in rain and snow, moisture may have seeped down your barrel, settled around the cartridge and formed rust in the chamber. Fortunately, the rust needs a few months to get a good hold. If you clean the chamber promptly, you’ll have no problem. But, let it go a long time and the rust can wreck your gun.



If you have a pump or bolt action, it's not a problem. They can tolerate a fair degree of chamber rust. But an autoloader won't and here's why: Imagine inflating a balloon inside of a pipe and trying to remove it. You can't remove the balloon until you deflate it. This same thing happens in a rifle chamber. When the gun is fired, the brass cartridge expands and locks firmly against the walls of the chamber. During that moment, it's difficult to remove the cartridge. After the bullet is out the bore, the brass shrinks back to normal and the empty cartridge will easily extract.



With a bolt action or pump, the cartridge isn't extracted until after the bullet leaves the barrel and chamber pressure is gone. But a gas operated autoloader works so quick that it starts extracting the fired cartridge while the brass is still locked against the chamber walls.



Manufacturers overcome this problem with a unique bolt design that delays the cycling until the pressure is 75% gone. To handle the remaining 25% they smooth and polish the chamber to make it slick and easier to extract while the cartridge is under pressure. Correct operation of the gun depends on maintaining a polished chamber. If rust gets in, you'll have problems.



If rust is minor, the gun may still work, but not correctly. It will often fail to extract and frequently jam-- especially when a buck is in your sights. If rust is severe, the extractor can rip the back off the shell casing and cause the action bars to bend. If you continue shooting the gun, the condition can get worse -- even dangerous.



NO EASY CURE



Once chamber rust sets in, there's no easy cure. If it isn't severe, Ahlman's can hone out the rust and re-polish the chamber. However, our options are limited because we can't risk enlarging the chamber.



Manufacturers recognize the problem and try to warn consumers. Remington even packs a special chamber cleaning brush and excellent instructions with each new autoloading high power. But, if you're like most, you rarely read instruction books and you probably tossed the chamber brush. If so, that’s not a problem; you can easily make your own.



A 410 gauge shotgun brush is the right size for most chambers. You'll need to bend the rod so the brush will go in. Place solvent on the brush and give the chamber a vigorous brushing. Then run a cleaning patch through the chamber and examine the patch. If it looks black or oily, your chamber is in good shape.



The Browning BAR, Winchester 100 and Remington 742-7400's are excellent deer rifles. All they need is a bit of TLC in the chamber after the hunt and you'll get a lifetime of use from the gun. But if you neglect the chamber, it will be a gun that you won't be handing down to your grandchildren.



ONE SOLUTION



Once the receiver guide rails are upset on a Rem. 742, there's no fix. We can, however, convert it to a pump -- similar to a Rem. 760. Even with a badly rusted chamber, the gun functions very nicely as a pump. So good, that after hundreds of these conversions, we've never had one come back for further adjustments. The best cure, of course, is to catch the cancer early and send it into remission. But, if it's too late for this, converting to pump is a very suitable solution.



©AHLMAN'S GUNS • 9525 W 230TH ST • MORRISTOWN, MN 55052



507-685-4243 • 507-685-4244 • FAX:

TAG

OGB: Sakoluvr is correct. A black reticle on a future black bear rug is impossible to see well before the end of legal hunting hours. A scope may not be required but if you use iron sights make sure the front sight has a red face, white stripe or light gathering tube. I used Millett Sights RF00011 Dovetail Rifle Sight front Orange ramp. Make sure you know the correct height you need for your load. You can use a roofing nail in the dove tail if you cannot get the plastic trial post from XS Sight Systems. I assume baiting is not allowed in Washington but you might be allowed a smudge pot of honey set up.

375 with a 200 grain Sierra

I wish I’d thought of that.


True. No hounds either.


Okie John

That's a cool conversion, right there! The FP sight is perfect for that.

Here some olde school bear medicine.

Had friend kill a 500 lb boar with his BLR 243..100 gr partition.

For me I would prefer my 358 win...

7mm-08 loaded w/ 140 Gr.Accubonds seemed to work.


Ya!

GWB

I would take whatever rifle yuo are most comfortable shooting in a caliber say .277 or better as stated bears are not too hard to kill. I would focus tighter on the the bullet and optics (if you choose to go with a scope). For bears over bait in the dense woods I use either my 375 Ruger or 9.3 x 62 (both sport 19-inch barrels) and I shoot solid copper bullets in them. I like the solids as I can almost guarantee I will get two holes in a black bear, if you shoot a black bear with a solid or well bonded bullet you will get two holes with most broadside shots, you may only get on if you hit the shoulder but a solid will probably break the opposite shoulder.

For optics understand that the ranges are close in the woods and often the bigger bears will visit you late in the shooting day, like the last 15 minutes of legal day in a dense woods, not a lot of light. I have two Meopta 1.5-6 scopes on my woods rifles as they have great low light performance and I keep them at 1.5 so I get rapid target acquisition, the ranges are close so you don't need the scope to judge a size. A common mistake made is a hunter will sight the rifle in at max magnification and not turn the magnification down while hunting and bring the rifle up and all they see is black.

Short story long: focus on the optics on top of the gun than the gun, it is hard to kill what you can't see. Black bears are not hard to kill if you can get good shot placement with a good bullet of moderate to large calibers.

Thanks to everyone who replied. I'm seeing three schools of thought:
1. Any deer rifle will do
2. Classic medium, from 358 Winchester to 9.3x62mm Mauser
3. 45-70

Also lots of support for illuminated reticles.

Opening Day is in two weeks. I'm looking at a 22" Model 700 in 308, Trijicon Credo HX 1-4 with a green illuminated duplex reticle, and a 150-grain Barnes TTSX at 2,880 fps. I've got a good zero, I've scouted some promising berry patches, and I've been shooting a LOT of offhand.

Thoughts?


Okie John

Think that ought to do very well.

Very interesting! Thanks for this

Sweet!

My thoughts are that you are well armed for any Black Bear that walks the Earth. Or pretty much any NA big game animal as well. Get ‘em!

John, you know me. If you can't get it done with a 308 Win, it's probably not worth doing.

There's a very well-stocked hook and bullet emporium near the place I'm going to hunt. Most of the customers are locals, and in 30 seconds it becomes very clear that they know what they're talking about.

I asked the guy behind the counter what the locals use for bear under these conditions, and he basically said, "an elk rifle."

So, yeah. A 308.


Okie John

That is one cool rifle in an even cooler cartridge. Thanks for posting pics of some hard to find factory loads

To avoid this, take heed of this advice: "Most important is where to shoot them. I suggest your bullet point of impact be a little further back than you would shoot a deer when broadside. Aim about 3-4 inches behind the crease of the shoulder." It's a 5 (black) bear limit where I live and I've killed enough to see what happens when they're hit a little too far forward. I've seen bears survive hits a little too far forward that would have killed deer with the same shot. I've taken them mostly with a 308, but, 223 up to 300 Win as well, and like everything else, placement has trumped cartridge.

You will be well armed. I hunt in WA in the same types of areas you mention. I will say that I’m generally expecting to shoot a little further than 100 yards, but not much more than 300. I glass food sources from an opposite hillside. Your rifle will be well suited for any of that.

I thought I read here that Ahlman's wasn't offering this service anymore. Its clearly still listed, though.
Has anyone had them convert a semi recently?
With the current cost of 760/7600s, I have at least one donor in the safe. Unfortunately, as family has passed or stopped hunting they have trickled.my way.
George

I my simple book, this seems like a prefect set up for "about anything, about anywhere".

I would probably use my Siamese Mauser in 45-70 .

Or maybe my 6.5 SweedMore .