Hello All,

I have been working on this gun for a better part of a year on trying to get good groups with the the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 143 grain eld-x bullet to no avail. I've tried at least a half a dozen recommended powders (faster and slower burning), amounts, and at least a handful of different primers (even the elusive Federals 210-Ms). Lupa Brass is being used as well, with a seating depth of 2.809. When I first shot the gun last year, the first 6 rounds were factory ammunition 1/4 MOA with the Hornady 143 grain eldx bullet. I know the gun has the ability to shoot well; but no reloads have ever shot well since. I am planning this coming weekend to measure the speed leaving the barrel as I've been told it should shoot around 2,700 feet per second. I've done cleanings and no cleanings between sessions to see if that helps too with no real visual difference.

Gun Information:
Weatherby 6.5 Creedmoor backcountry TI (1st gen)
1/8 Twist barrel
22 inch barrel
2 inch included factory muzzle brake
4.7 pounds
Swarvoski Z6 5-30x50 P BT


I doubt anyone has this specific round with this manufacture, but any tips on 6.5 Creedmoor reloading would be very helpful.

P.S. I actually have very little reload knowledge as a good friend of mine is the one reloading for me. He is an older gentleman with little to no computer knowledge so I'll pass along your responses to him. He's been doing this for at least 15 years.

Thanks in advance!

When was the last time you’ve shot the factory ammo in the rifle?

If it were me, I’d give it another go just to make sure everything is still good.

Double check your action screws, scope mounts and anything that has screws on it.

If you can post some pictures of your targets for reference that may be helpful as well.

Something sounds mechanical since if it’s any sorta decent load, it’ll usually shoot pretty well.

Have you checked bullet alignment with the case? If they're not seated reasonably straightly, then that can really affect grouping. If you don't have an alignment gauge, one easy way to see if that might be the problem is rolling the rounds across a smooth, flat surface. If you can see any "wobble" in the tips of the bullets, they're pretty far out of alignment.

Have you played with seating depth? Often high-BC bullets will group better when seated farther from the lands.

1. Measure a factory round to the Ogive if possible since they shot well then duplicate seating depth.
2. I never test a new rifle/load without a chronograph, like pizzing into the wind.
3. Are you sure it’s clean?

Otherwise poster above gave good advice.

Great post and suggestion. Sounds like a mechanical issue to me as well, or shooter error. The simple truth about the creedmoor is it's hard to make a load that doesn't shoot well. I have plenty and have never seen it. Sounds to me like the rifle needs to be confirmed it's good mechanically before going a single step further with a handload.

Front scope base screw contact on the barrel tenon?

STOP!

What kind of groups are you getting with the ELDX reloads?

Take this approach with caution. I hesitate to post this because you need to be careful and I don't advocate loading above normal data. I had a similar experience with my Creedmoor a Kimber 84M with a custome Brux barrel. It shot Barnes Vor-Tx with the 127LRX sub MOA by quite a bit. All the different reloads with all the different components were MOA+. This rifle has a very tight chamber and the Vor-TX shot 100fps faster than the Barnes data printed on the box and I was achieving max velocity with my reloads of the 127LRX at about 2.5gr shy of book max. I finally loaded to the same velocity as the factory rounds and got bughole accuracy.
You need a chronograph.

I'll make a couple more comments:

The reason I suggested checking bullet alignment is I've found that starting with the basics is the easiest way to eliminate possible problems. It's like checking if the battery cable connections are clean in a pickup truck that won't start, rather than replacing the battery.

Have found a LOT of handloaders, even "experienced" ones like the guy who's loading for him, often have no clue about bullet alignment. Its one of those basics that eliminates the basic possibilities, rather than getting into more esoteric stuff. And as I described, it's easy to check without an alignment gauge.

The OP Jared DID say the rifle shot six rounds of the factory ammo into 1/4 MOA, with him shooting--which seems to indicate there's no problem with the shooter or the rifle. (Of course, another possibility is the handloaded groups were shot in windier conditions, which is ANOTHER simple and basic possibility.)

Beretz mentioned some other basic stuff like checking screw tightness. Another simple thing to check is whether the guy doing the handloading is seating the bullets the same depth as those in the factory ammo--which is what I often do when a factory load shoots very well.

Wind flags are a no no in load development, as we all know it’s never windy and wind has no effect within 100 yards on group size.

😳😳😳

Agree MD the little things add up

If you are using a proper fitting seating die to the profile of the bullet .Alignment will improve . The EldX almost needs a VLD seating stem . That being said 5 lb rifles are more difficult to get to shoot off a bench accurately than say my 15 lb .260 is. Any flaw in technique is magnified,. If it does not shoot the 143 with the listed max of H4350 work on the above.........

Yep, a VLD seating stem can definitely help with ELD-Xs--or any other high-BC bullet.

But his rifle does NOT weigh 5 pounds scoped. And again, it grouped very well with him shooting the factory ammo.

I’d definitely try a little more of the factory myself after checking over the screws. Just to see if the scope puked or something went bad after shooting the factory and then trying to shoot handloads.

We still don't know what the poster was getting for groups with the ELDX reloads. He may have been getting 3/4 inch groups and considering those "not good" compared to the factory ammo.

He plainly stated: "When I first shot the gun last year, the first 6 rounds were factory ammunition 1/4 MOA with the Hornady 143 grain eldx bullet."

He opened up by saying:

"trying to get good groups with the the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 143 grain eld-x bullet to no avail."

Here's what I am thinking, and I suppose I could be off base.

We do not know what kind of groups he is getting reloading the ELDX. Are we talking 1/2 to 3/4 MOA groups out of a lightweight rifle or are we talking 2" groups? If it's the former, that might be as good as it's going to get with reloads. If he's getting the latter with reloads, but 1/4" with factory, then perhaps some troubleshooting is in order. That troubleshooting would begin with seeing if the factory loads can still deliver 1/4 MOA. If it does, then the reloads are the likely problem. If it doesn't then something in the scope/mounting system is the likely problem.

Again, I might be barking up the wrong tree John, but I think we need some information on specifically what the OP means when he says he can't get good groups.

MD is right. I took it as his Hand loads with that bullet we’re not performing as well as factory.

That is exactly the way I took it too. My question is how bad were the handloads?

Well I look at it this way also, the first 6 shots in a .25 was probably a fluke of nature and the rifle is now showing its true self. Popping quads for group consistently is a lot harder than you think.

Well, yeah, maybe.

But it also might be entirely moot, since the OP hasn't even logged in again since he posted....

Maybe moot, but IME a rifle take a few rounds down the tube to settle in. 6 shots isn’t even indicative of capability.

Popping quads ?

He shot 6 factory rounds that grouped “1/4 MOA”

He then spent the last year trying to match that accuracy with hand loads. No mention whatsoever of group size with hand loads,

That is all we know at this point.

He could be shooting 1/2” groups, dunno.

And then to have someone else loading your rounds for you, over a years time,

And you can’t get a Creed to shoot?

Doesn’t add up.

Conventional wisdom: One can always load better than factory.

Maybe not so much with the Creed. Factory ammo is that good.

And people wonder why the Creed caught on, great off the shelf ammo, budget priced rifles that sometimes outshoot high priced custom guns. Yeah, that’s been known to happen.

So Creed haters may just be jealous. Reckon that’s been know to happen. Hmmm….

DF

I agree. The op is very vague too. If he was having someone else load his ammo, that person would/should have it dialed in pretty quickly, unless something is wrong with the rifle. The op also does not state when the last time was that he shot factory ammo. I am still in full agreement with beretzs on this one. Did something go awry in the years time? A lot not adding up, but guys are wanting to jump in with both feet and say it's a handloading issue. Just doesn't make sense, when you start putting 2 and 2 together. Generally you need to start from the start. It's really showing some ignorance here as well, with some of these posters that should know better.

Sorry for the delay, everyone.

I plan to shoot factory ammunition this weekend and will post my results. The first link has two photos from last weekend. The type of powder and load amounts are in the pictures. Only one group seemed promising this past weekend, but still not ideal, and we will try to shoot close variations to that again. I will also make sure everything is screwed down correctly and any other tips given here. The gun is 4.7 lbs without the scope, FYI. I believe the scope is around 18 ounces. I will also try to measure the velocity too.

All shots are from 100 Yards on a secure bench that is bolted down to the concrete. I am using a lead sled that makes it very easy for the shooter, and I have shot very well with other rifles on it—the same shooting procedure from the beginning. The last photo was the first six shots that went down the barrel over a year ago with factory ammunition. I adjusted the turret once after the first shot that went high, and the following five were left untouched. The 1/4 MOA could be left to interpretation from this photo as there were more than three shots. I apologize for that original statement, as it may not be correct. The important thing here is it shot more than well, IMO.

https://imgur.com/a/jioZmgf (reloading)
https://imgur.com/a/fkUmXii (factory A over a year ago)

I would like to bring this gun on a Muley/prong horn combination hunt in the plains of Wyoming in late October. I hope to shoot a prong up to 300 yards, but I don't feel comfortable passing 100 yards with these inconsistent reload groups.

Suppose the Factory shoots pretty well again this weekend. I may stick with that until I figure out what's going on.

I wanted to see if the gun or the loads was the issue. Thank you for everyone's comments.

Ok, your factory target throwing out the one on top, the dispersion looks more like 1” not 1/4”. On your hand loads you had 1 with 4831 that the 3 look about ~1” and also 1 with 4350 ~1”. Basically all I see is the need to tweak a couple and shoot again.

Addendum

Use your chronograph and some wind flags on the reshoot.

I'd try bumping your charges some with both loads. They seem a little on the low side. 40-41 grains with the 143 always seemed like the place to be. Never tried H4831 but looking at other data it may be a bit low as well.

The Chrono will let you know where you can go though.

I don't think you're as far away as you think.

Yep, what Swifty said. Your factory group is pretty darned good for a lightweight rifle. Your 38.5 grain and 42 grain handloads are almost right there with the factory loads.


Of course with just a few 3 shot groups, you aren't getting really good data points. Assuming that either your factory or your handloads can repeat those groups with more testing, I'd feel perfectly comfortable using them out to 300 yards.

If you are going to shoot off of sticks, a bipod or a backpack on your hunt, shoot that way at the range too. Lightweight rifles can be a bit finicky about where you put pressure on them.

Yep, lotsa room between the 38.5 and 42gr H4350 loads to play. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the answer being in the low 40's and a little monkeying with seating depth.

But I also wouldn't fret the factory ammo - that's shooting pretty well. I'd be itching to see what it does at 300.

A gun that light has a pencil thin barrel, it;’s never going to win any matches, Only the first shot matters.

A little tweaking and you’ll have a 1 MOA rifle, which is way more common than most want to admit,

42.6 grains of H4350, and a Berger 140 VLD, Winning load for me.

Nothing personal but why a 5.75 lb rifle on a plains hunt?

I hate to be that guy, (but), Grab a Tikka for half the price and go slay things.

Agree with these yahoos.......

Yep, lotsa room between the 38.5 and 42gr H4350 loads to play. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the answer being in the low 40's and a little monkeying with seating depth.

But I also wouldn't fret the factory ammo - that's shooting pretty well. I'd be itching to see what it does at 300.[/quote]

Agree with these yahoos.......[/quote]\

Yep, after fooling with seven 6.5 CMs over the past 15 years, have generally found that 41.5 H4350 does pretty well--which was the load listed on the original Hornady factory 140 A-Max ammo...

Which is what I used with the 140 Berger VLD to shoot the very first 100-yard group with a Ruger American Predator--which is five shots, not three--as the fired cases indicate:

JaredTT, my cousin picked up a Tikka T3 in 6.5 creedmoor and was having some real trouble in the accuracy department. He was routinely shooting 1.5" groups. I watched him shoot his gun and emediately picked out what I considered to be terrible form. Some guns can shoot but not all people can shoot a gun. I shot two consecutive groups with his gun with bullets touching. While his gun shot like shiz with him behind the trigger the gun proved to be sniper capable when I was pulling the trigger. I can tell you that if your not putting "thousands" of rounds downrange on a continual basis it is certainly possible that this could be at least part of the problem. If this isn't the case than please completely disregard my thoughts on this. If your a bit newer to shooting practice shooting a bit more and if you can get under moa call yourself blessed for now

Thank you for all of your responses. The gun was shot again this past weekend, and shot about MOA with the H4350 in the low 40's. We plan to play around that number, and the seating depth. I like the flag and chronograph idea. Definitely planning using that too.

Due to the weight of the gun and thickness of the barrel, it makes sense I may not get better results. This was my first new rifle. I'll likely get a heavier barrel on the next go around.

Final update. Seems we got it dialed in. Here is the lastest group of H4350 in 41.3 grains @ 100 yards

https://imgur.com/a/cxNcil3

That'll work.