So I have two 30/06 Kimber Montanas. Figured I'd rebore one to either 35 Whelen or 338/06.

I have a SS Hawkeye Whelen that I really like but dont have a 338/06 so leaning toward the later. I know theres not enough difference to matter so as a looney I could be convinced either way.

Purpose of the rifle is a light weight all around AK hunting/berry picking rifle. And of course to tinker with and pour over reload data etc.

The Montana I'm going to rebore has been cut to a looney length of 23" and has NEGC sights installed already. It works great as is but I like medium bores so what say the Campfire guru's?

Thanks and tight chains.

You want a 338-06? Do it, No justification needed.

But I am a 338-06 looney.

I'd do the .338-06 just for the 210 NPt if nothing else.

or TSX, TTSX.
or 200gr Nosler ballistic silvertip, Accubond,
or...

I’m on the 35 Whelen bandwagon. That being said, I don’t think the Montana’s have enough meat for a rebore. So I would go 338-06 for the above mentioned “good” bullets.
Good luck, Tom

My thought also. Kimbers usually have pretty skinny barrels so you may want to consult whoever you will have do the rebore before committing.

I had a pre'64 M/70 rebored to .35 Whelen 30yrs. ago, much bigger selection of bullets in .35 than in .338. Mine shoots everything accuarately, jacketed and cast rifle bullets also .357 pistol bullets.

Here is how I would approach this:go to your local gun store, and see what is most available in 338, 358, or 9.3 bullets. Buy up a large pile of which ever is cheapest. 338-06, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, all are very good rounds. Easy to load for, cycle good through most actions.
Charlie

OP didn’t specify if these were 84L or 8400 but I don’t think you are getting a 0.366 out of a 0.56 unless cut down a bit.

I’ve become one myself! I honestly don’t think a medium game hunter can dream up a circumstance where a 338-06 wouldn’t be effective - especially if the faster twists are considered.

I used a 338-06 several years ago to take this elk. Largest one I have ever taken. Guide estimated 1100 to 1200 lbs. Used a 225 grain partition. I ate elk for the next four years. And all my neighbors did to.

Damn, 1100# man what an elk. I killed what I thought was a fairly large bull weight wise, maybe 750 to 800# or so estimated with a 338-06 and a 210gr Barnes TSX.

I most likely will not hunt elk again at my age but if I could that 338-06 would be with me, and I actually own a 35 Whelen built on a Winchester model 70, thanks to Redneck.

Get both

Mine are all 1:9 twist. If my 338-06's will not get it done, I am going much bigger. Like the 416 Remington in my safe.

Charlie,
Nice bull! Congrats!

I have these on my shelf just in case I find myself in your situation.

Quit jacking your root and buy them all..

35 Whelen. You'll thank me later..

Hint

That’s the spirit!

I love the 338 but I also love the 358 and the bigger hole it punches. I have both the 338, albeit in a couple of Win Mag, and the 35 Whelen. My 20” Whelen is fairly light and very compact but it offers a hell of a lot of firepower in a small package. It wears an SWFA 1-4 IR in Warne rings on a bedded Pic rail, it has a Trigger Tech set at 2.5# and a B&C synthetic stock……it would be exactly what I’d be carrying when berry picking or jungle busting. My 338’s are awesome but I find that I’m reaching for my Whelen more and more. I found an old stockpile of Remington Core-Lokt in 250gr pointed soft point as well as 250gr roundnose which I’ve bought up since I was getting them for $30 OTD per box….I can’t buy brass that cheap so I’ll make my own fire formed brass from new ammo.

For a short range thumper you can’t go wrong either way. The 338-06, as you know, will do everything that you need it to do and given identical scenarios it’ll perform the same as the Whelen. It boils down to what you want and it sounds like you want a 338-06….which is too bad since the Whelen is vastly better. 😂

If you already have a 338 or a 358 the portability of using the same components or at least the same bullets can simplify things during shortages but otherwise you can’t go wrong with whatever you choose.

I think your guide is smoking some serious chit.
1100-1200 elk are like 7'6" men.
Some Roosevelt elk crowd 1000# but that is not a Rosey.


To the OP, my vote is for the Whelen

I wondered about that. Seems I read here on the campfire of someone reboring a Montana to 35 cal. Could have been an 8400. Mine is an 84L. Of course I've read all kinds of stuff on the campfire so who knows! Definitely plan to talk to JES to see whats possible.

Thats a dandy elk Charlie!

Thanks for the input guys. Pretty sure it'll be a 338-06 since I have Whelen already.

Alaskalanche described his 338/06 build on an 84L a few years back.
IIRC it was shortened to 21”

I believe alaskalanche has done a .358 Win and a .338-06 with Montanas. As I recall the barrel on the .358 was shortened. I don't recall if that was for minimum wall thickness or weight reduction?

I would go .338-06 just because it sounds cooler saying it. I have no experience with, interest in or rational use for either, I just think.338-06 sounds cooler.

I’ve had both the .358 Win and 336-06.

.358 is a JES FWT pre-64, 338-06 an FN Mauser I picked up on the Classifieds.

Liked both, sold the .338, kept the .358. Used the .358 more. No flies on the .338-06. Thinning the herd.

The .358 is unique as one can shoot .357 pistol bullets, jacketed and cast, plus an impressive range of rifle bullets. My current fav bullet is the 178 gr Shock Hammer. Impressive accuracy and terminal performance.

Guess I could have worked up more .338-06 loads, just got focused on the .358.

DF

When I was making the same choice I wanted a short barreled rifle and to shoot round nosed bullets so I went Whelen. No regrets and it has been a great rifle. Nowadays with the small number of RN bullets out there I would easily choose the 338-06.

Ah yes, that age old question that every rifle loony must face sometime during his lifetime. Should I go 338-06 or .35 Whelen? The decision could be life altering. Truth be told, either one would serve just fine. I six of one and a half dozen of the other type situation.

Truth is there isn't much more than a nickel's worth of difference twixt the two. For the most part, one will do the same on a game animal as the other. There is a slight advantage in range for the 338-06 but the .35 Whelen may hit just a little bit harder. Again, six of one and a half dozen of the other.
There's an excellent article by the late Finn Aagaard where he compared both cartridges in IIRC, Rifle magazine. He kept things about as equal as possible and while admitting that it made no real difference, he did go with the .338-06.

Me? I went with the .35 Whelen as I already had three rifles chambered as such. Two factory guns, a Remington 700 Classic and a Ruger M77RS. I also got a good deal on someone's custom rifle as an estate sale, an Oberndorf military Mauser with a nice stock in the classic form with elephant ivory forearm tip and grip cap, 1 in 14" 24" barrel and the rifle shoots bug holes with the 225 gr. TSX. I call it my very lucky elk slayer.

I always though about doing a 338-06 but the Whelen works so well for me that I've never gotten around to having one done. Anyway, I'd been craving a .35 Whelen so when the Ruger showed up and I shot it the stock cracked and the rifle tried to come out of the stock. I had a Ramline laying around so used it to fix the problem. I found out the screws were loose. About a month later the Classic showed up and I bought it, Both will run 1.0" to 1.25" with my handloads so good enough for the hunting I do. About 6 months later I found that custom and it seemed fit me almost perfectly so it came home with me. I shot a little better than the factory rifles with the largest groups at one inch or a little less with actory ammo or my handloads until I tried the 225 gr. TSX bullet. I got some .50" groups while woring up a hunting load for elk and the final result was the TX running from .375" to .75" at 2710 FPS.

So, if I should have to replace the rifles for some bad luck happening, I'd just do another .35 Whelen and never look back.
PJ

I have both a 338 06 AI and a 35 Whelen AI.

Give me the 338 06.

As I mentioned before buy them all quit debating in significant differences. Only way you'll be happy is to experience them is to have and use them.Back in 82 i bought a m70 xtr in 338 mag loaded 200 gr spitzers at 2900+ recoil is not insignificant nor was the blood shot meat. So I down loaded it too about 2800 and they died just as fast. Allways want a 35 Whelen and in 89 found a m77rs being cleared out bought it too . Shot several deer with factory 200 gr pspcl rem loads they all died. I had plenty of tissue loss so I started using 225 npt's at 2550 and they worked fine. One day at the lgs I spotted a Whitworth 375 and picked it up cheap , shoots nice and doesn't recoil as much as the 35 Whelen or 338 mag. Late in the 90's I found a custom 338-06 in an FN custom for a decent price. 200 gr Hornady SP's at 2700 and the deer died without too much tissue loss. Then I spent to much time with a woman and lonely beer while trying to keep up with reading JB's writing, yup ended up with a 9.3x62. In there on my loading bench is a pile of 50 ct bags of 200 gr NPT .308's I like and have more 30-06's than any other , haven't worked a load up for 2oo's yet for my 06's but I am going to and shoot some deer and whatever. I am figuring it will kill everything fine just like the others. Should have started reading Phil Shoemaker sooner. It was good enough for him so I am not worried about its results. Point is quit going through mental gymnastics, work up a load for what you have stop worrying about ones you don't have and go kill game...mb

This debate usually comes down to personal preference, pragmatism, or looneyism. Take your pick.

If you want a rifle in XYZ cartridge, get one. I have shot and owned rifles chambered in 30-06, 338-06, 338 Win Mag, 35 Whelen, and 9,3x64 Brenneke. I know this may shock you, but they all worked.

Having owned all of those was due to looneyism. After using them all, personal preference went to the 338-06. After 20 plus years, it is now leaning towards pragmatism. I have dies sets, lots of head stamped brass, and enough 338 bullets to last a very long time.

Had my choice been any of the other cartridges listed above. I can not think of one instance where I would have been disappointed.

Yeah this a looneyism situation for sure!

I've taken moose with 270,30/06, 338Win Mag, 35 Whelen and lots of them with a 375H&H. All worked just fine. I know that the difference between a 338/06 and 35 Whelen is splitting a blond one..

The 338 Win mag is the only one I dont have any longer. It worked great. I shot several moose and other critters with it. It was even my first guide rifle. When I got my 375 I just liked the cartridge and the rifle its self better. Didn't seem to recoil as bad either.

I'm going to go 338-06 just because I haven't before!

Thanks for the replies guys. I enjoy the input and conversation.

358win is maybe the most interesting when considering it an smaller engine and the possibilities with pistol bullets and especially heavier cast bullet. 35cal is about the point where there's enough weight/mass/diameter that cast becomes an viable option and the 358win velocity window is more friendly for that.

35 Whelen is where I'd go with things. Factory ammo is much more available and it's a more "efficient" round as well.

The 35 Whelen has a well studied expansion ratio - same as the 308 Winchester...and the 223 Rem. Same powder for 3 very popular calibers.

DING DING DING!

I hear CFE223 is the fuel for the 225 to 250gr bullet weights in Whelen. Haven't had a chance to try this combination out yet, but plan to. IMR-8208 XBR is wonderful fuel for the 200 gainers.

I had this 338-06 vs 35 Whelen debate with myself way back when I was in Engineering school. Studied up on both and did alot of comparison analysis. At that time I decided I liked the Whelen better. More useful for my type of hunting - close range.

5 years later, on a business trip to the twin cities in Minneapolis, working for Cummins Diesel at the time, I took a ride on down to Owatonna, MN (while all my other compadres did different after hours activities). Cabelas was open till 8pm so this worked out quite well. There on the used rifle rack was a Remington 700 Limited Classic in 35 Whelen. I couldn't believe my good fortune. It went straight to the purchase desk. The rest is history.

I've walked passed only a few rifles in 338-06. One was a nice, but heavy custom mauser. Nothing that really tripped my trigger. I still can't believe my good fortune, and this has been the only rifle I've seen for sale in 35 Whelen.

I went with the .35 because years ago I read an article on it and it got imprinted on my brain that I should own one. Since having had one a while I am impressed with the balance between power, recoil and performance. I like short, handy rifles for some of the hunting I do and my 20” Whelen fits the bill perfectly with plenty of snort should a longer shot present itself.

I guess I came for the nostalgia and stayed for the performance!

The ability to load pistol bullets for plinking and even close range hunting of thin skinned game has kept me a devoted .35 Whelen fan (and .358 Win and .358 Norma).

One of the things that turned me off of the 35 Whelen is recoil. I owned a Rem 700 Classic in 35 Whelen. For some reason it was brutal to shoot.

I sold the Whelen and went to a 338 Win Mag which was better to shoot, but went down the road also. Went to 338-06 and never looked back. Experience forms opinions and we go from there.

I have never understood the pistol bullet mindset. What is a positive for some, is a head scratcher negative for me.

I have loaded a few cartridges down with softer bullets and have enjoyed plinking/hunting with them.
338-06 -180gr NBT(disc), 200gr SST/IL.
270 WCF- 85gr TSX, 100gr NAB, 110gr Sierra pro hunter, 120gr SST, 130gr IL, 140gr BTSP.
375 H&H- Hornady 270gr IL.

Velocities were running 1950-2400fps.

Coming from a guy that has all three of the popular medium bores .338-06, .35W and 9.3x62, I can understand where a lot of you are coming from. I really like all three of those ctdgs. I mostly hunt the larger stuff and can say that either one will get the job done on Elk or Moose inside 300 yds.

It,s almost a draw between them but if I had to settle on just one it would be the 35W .. maybe the 9.3, or maybe the 338-06 ? Real good performers, all of them. It all depends on the Bullet weight you prefer for the task at hand... as far as i can tell.

Fair enough. I shoot 158 XTPs and cast bullets with enough TrailBoss to duplicate .357 magnum rifle loads. Basically no recoil, cheap to shoot (back when TrailBoss and LR primers were east to find) and it has worked well on treed lions and small game.

The Trail Boss shortage has certainly put a damper on my light load experimenting.

Most of my experience is with H4895, 5744, and was just starting to mess around with Trail Boss when it went unavailable.

Ken Waters wrote that the best way to improve the .35 Whelen was to go to the .338-06.

CRS
When I ran out of TrailBoss I started using Titegroup. I like Titegroup better. Try it, I think you will like it.

Will give it a try.

Thanks Charlie

.338 for me over .358. Way better for distant shots and the 225gn .338 bullet has better sectional density than the 250gn .358, the 250gn .338 has better sectional density than the 275gn .358 and if 250gn isn't enough in a .338 then there's the 300gn .338 bullet. With the 9.3's the 286gn is quite good for SD, but you can go 300 and even 320 grain in a 9.3...but they suc at long range.

I had this debate more than a decade ago but since I was rebarreling a nickel steel 1903 in a classic stock including a steel trapdoor buttplate, I went with the .35 Whelen. Then the advancement in factory loads for the Whelen, especially the Nosler loads, pushing the velocity of 225 gr to 2700 fps, it turned out to be a great choice. Shooting from a bench is not as pleasant as a 222 but I don't use it on gophers.

Get both so you don’t have a dilemma

Thats the plan I think. Already have a 35 Whelen SS Hawkeye. Was back and forth on reboring this 84L to a Whelen or 338/06. Doing the 338/06.

i just did a JES rebore on a Ruger #1 ,i went 35 Whelen.

Bet that’s gonna shoot. 3 groove?

DF

I first read of the 35 Whelen and .333 OKH (338/06) through Elmer Keith in the mid-70's. I was very keen on both, but had no money. Had a young family instead! Years later, I was in Bible School (Broken Arrow, OK)in 1988 when Remington came out with their Classic in the Whelen. Boddington shot that moose with it, and it started an itch. After that I found an article by Gary Sitton on a 20" 35 Whelen Ackley Improved. I liked the looks of the case and his idea of a 250gr going 2600. I had an invitation, to go on a combined business/hunting trip to South Africa in '95, the trip planned for Spring, '96. I wanted something with some thump, and was on the lookout for another 338WM ( had played with one, too heavy for Utah mountains and traded it for a Mountain Rifle in .280 which I had Ackleyed).

On the used gun rack was a Classic in 35 Whelen. I bought it, sent it off to Gary Stiles ( something about guys named Gary??) had rechambered for the Ackley. The Barnes 250X going 2550-2600 just went through zebra, Blue Wildebeast, Hartebeast, Oryx and Kudu like a hot knife. It made them S.S.F.F. (Start, Stumble, Fart & Fall!) right now! Impressed me all get out. Later hunts/rifles came with the 338WM/340Wby/338 RUM/375 H&H & 375 Wby. I had tried a 338/280 but got frustrated with the Remington Nickled cases, and had the rifle converted to 338WM. I liked the looks of the 338/06 Ackley, but with new powders, I cann get all I want out of the simple 338/06. Fortunately for me, I found a like new Wby UL-Lwt 338/06 A-Square, with brake, a decelerator pad and already bedded/floated. Scoped with my leupold 2.5x8, It weighs 6 3/4 pounds, kicks like a 7mm/08, whoopee!! ha My Marine Son in Law has several rifles I have gifted him through the years. An FN Mauser in 35 Whelen AI, a CZ 550 FS 9.3x62 and many others. He has killed elk with the Whelen and a big hog with the CZ. I can use either if i want, but I'm happy.

P.S. I first read about Keith's 333 OKH then 338/06 in the mid 70's. I had an old sporterized 1917 Eddystone ,my uncle gave me when I was 16. Back then, no one really wanted to bore/chamber it nor rebarrel it for fear of the Eddystone's brittleness. It shot great as is, so I just loaded up the 200 Sierra BT and shot it some more, but I really wanted the 338/06. Fate had me start out with that Classic Whelen!

Right!

I get terrific accuracy with the 185gn TTSX in my .338 Winchester so if you can attain the velocities often cited for the '06 version, I would opt for that for general use on medium game and have a few on hand with top loaded 250gn Partitions if you hunt where these may be useful.