I just read a comment on Tom Rivers Simple living that the 30-40 Kragg can be safely fired in the 303 Brit. Wow! Does anyone have experience with this? Mule Deer, in the very recent past, told us the 30-40 is copied after the .303 British. HMMMMM! Perhaps Mule Deer knows.

I've owned, and own both, and see no earthly reason to do it. If anything .30-40 brass/ammo is harder to find than .303 British. Then there's the discrepancy in bore size - accuracy wouldn't be anything to write home about. Have you compared cartridge dimensions? If so you would see that while they're close the Krag is a bit larger in diameter at the shoulder and a bit longer in OAL making the prospect of the Krag cartridge fitting into the Brit chamber really iffy. (But Brit chambers can be found with outrageously large chambers so there's that.)

In the past when Krag brass was totally unobtainable guys would run .303 brass into Krag sizing dies and then fireform to make cases that would work. Not ideally, but they would work.

I would have to be pretty desperate to try what you suggest.

Only one way to find out.....do it and report back here with the results.

Seems like a bad idea and potentially dangerous advice.

According to Bearrr264"s grandfather, rifles chambered in 32 WIN SPL were popular in rural/frontier Canada because people could shoot 30-30 in them in a pinch.

I've heard that for years so I tried it. Accuracy was terrible even at 25 yards. At 25 yards I might hit something. Past that no way

I believe the key word there is "simple".

What could possibly be the goal of such tomfoolery? Both rounds have gone from being pretty much everywhere in my younger days to near unobtanium. Barring a Zombie Apocalypse with some poor schlub finding himself unaccountably with a jungle carbine and a pile of .30/40 Cor-Lokts, even my fantasy-machine brain can’t come up with a reason to even contemplate such nonsense. Very doubtful that under SHTF conditions anyone is gonna score .30/40 ammo while scrounging, unless they hit up gnoahhh’s place😜

BTW, and pardon the drift, but ammunition for most things is commonly available, and priced commensurately with the Biden economy, sometimes much better. A contentious general election is in the works. Think about the goings-on preceding the last one, and the effect on supplies and the market. I’d never suggest that anyone fill up their garage with a bunch of stuff they’ll never use; that’s foolish and irresponsible, but so is letting yet another shortage catch you without needful things with which to defend yourself and your family, and also to pursue your hobbies. Times are tough for some, but almost anyone can find a few bucks in their discretionary fund to lay in a bit now and then.

I got a 30/40 Krag Springfield that has bullets, but needs a better stock.

I can’t believe how much I like shooting this deal.

Any advice out there?

This does not reflect well on yet another You Tuber expert. Beware the "tube", there is no vetting system as to content, competency or sanity.

What is wrong with the stock? If it is original then leave it as is. If it has been "sporterized" then get ahold of the CMP and see if they have a stock. Murray Gunstocks also make them.

After the war, a lot of 8 mm ( .315) mausers were brought back to the states. It was common practice, I guess, to run a 30-06 reamer in them I had one and it would kill deer at 50 yards or so. Also had 7.65 Argentine mauser that I shot 30 cal bullets when the .312 bullets were not available.

Heck of a lot better than a 12 gauge round ball back then and a lot less recoil.I killed deer with all three many years ago

Haha! Yep, I tend to go overboard when it comes to brass, powder, and primers. (Bullets not so much because even though I do actually shoot jacketed stuff, when I have to, I guess, I also have a couple drawers-full of bullet moulds and know how to to use them.) If the "shortages" persist, or get worse, it'll be business as usual for me - at least for the next ten years at the rate I'm going. Hell I might not be around ten years from now anyway.

I've had Krags in my life for well over 50 years now, have always kept good supplies of brass for them and do so now. Some of the stuff is old pre-war brass and even it too is still in service here, albeit for squibb loads and mouse fart loads. (And "squibb doesn't mean "stuck in the barrel" either, except in erroneous application of the term that has taken root in our vernacular . Look it up.)

Who is CMP?

The stock isn’t made for it. I think it binds the deal up when I run the bolt.

I think it’s a carbine……..or made to be bubba carbine.

It groups well, but I think it’s zeroed for 300 yards +

I need a taller front sight.

I agree with you. The two cases are difficult to find as are the rifles. I just saw, last night, Privi Partisan brass for sale on the internet. It is expensive as is everything today. The fellow who commented on Simple Living has both the US Kragg and .303 Britt. I've shot rifles since age ten and in 2023 saw my first Kragg in my life time. It appeared to have never been fired. The stock and bluing were perfect with no damage to the rifle. The action was so smooth it was unbelievable. It was a gift to a man from a friend who inherited it from his father.

Pretty common for late 19th/early 20th century milsurps; a lot of them had sights zeroed way out there.

Tom Rivers did not make the comment. It was made by one of the people who watched his video. Mr. Rivers seems to be a level headed, common sense guy. He also really likes the
.303 Brit for hunting. IIRC, the guy who commented is from Canada and owns the two mentioned cartridges.

https://thecmp.org/

Richard's Microfit offers a semi inlet for the Krag.

I have read somewhere that after WW1 Remington/Peters made an 8x57 factory load with a thick softer jacket that was 0.323", but could be safely fired in 0.318" bore because the bullet would swage down without excess pressure. I've never seen that ammo that I recall, but it seems like a good idea at a time when both bore diameters could be encountered.

Civilian Marksmarksmanship program

I have a box pretty old Remington 8x57 ammo, and have fired it a little, and pulled bullets from other rounds. They are pretty blunt 170-grain soft-noses, diameter .321".

I suspect they may be the same bullets Remington used in their .32 Special ammo, because the muzzle velocity is similar, so the pressures are probably pretty low, so .321" wouldn't be a problem in .318" 8mms.

Questions like this are for entertainment only. Surely no one takes them seriously! Then on the other hand, many do not function with normal brain wave activity.

Sometimes I think that when older military arms were sold off as surplus to US businesses, the civilian world did not actually understand what they were dealing with. That's not a criticism. European arms were not well known on this side of the Atlantic.

In addition to the longer throats and wear, those old Commission rifles could be fed commercial .323 bullets, at reduced velocities. One of the methods to make oversized bullets shoot and not generate overpressures is to use a longer throat. These reduced pressure factory loads were pretty much a US phenomenon. There was a difference between CIP and SAAMI pressure maximums. Probably still is.

A week or two back the fire had some bozo promoting using 308 in an 30-06 because he saw it on a You Tube video more of the same stupid reasoning

i have two of the sporterized Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag. i also have two more Krag actions sans bolt. the first rifle is a hand-me-down rifle that was my great grandfather's. Grandpappy, Dad, Uncle (all of them RIP) had the Krag at some point. it was given to me by my grandpappy. when i die, it will be giving to my oldest son. i load the (actual weight 173gr) 165gr Ranch Dog with H4198 that goes 1926fps. it is a deer killer and every one of the deer goes DRT. i have killed 12 - 13 deer, while my son has killed 6 - 7 deer.

i have enough brass that my kids' kids' kid will have it. my brass is old Remington, old Winchester, New Grafs and old 30 Army. i have done a Redfield 102 K no drill aperture sight. some reason, i had a hard time lining up my sights and the target/deer. it is not my fault the sights or target/deer are blurry... (i have prescription glasses now). besides, my original sights had a peep sight that you could flip up. i could not see the front sight let alone, the target. i also put the original sporterized stock on it. i still have the Bishop's stock that my grandpappy did back in late 1950 - early 1960's.

1st krag
[img]https://i.imgur.com/72PElHf.jpg?1[/img]

1st krag with "original" stock


1st Krag with redone stock




2nd krag needed some love


2nd Krag


2 Krag actions sans bolt

None of the FED/REM/WIN 8x57 170 grain factory loads have been loaded anywhere near the potential of the cartridge. IIRC, FED/REM/WIN 170 grain factory loads produce performance close to that of their 170 grain 30-30 factory loads.

Well, with lots of old guns out there in various states of repair, you’d see how the lawyers would react.

Can’t say I blame them.

DF

Just like Charlie Sisk said a while back.

The 8x57 is under appreciated.

Same/same for other European military cartridges like the 6.5x55 and 7x57, loaded light compared to Norma and RWS. I'm actually a little surprised that European companies load the 6.5x55 as hot as they do in consideration of the Norwegian Krags. I know that I load my Norwegian Krag light, but run my sporterized Sweds hotter than recommended.

Right there is the quintessential American deer rifle. It put a lot of meat on the table for the guys who simply couldn't afford a fancy-schmancy Winchester/Savage/Remington in the teens-30's. A Krag could be had for about $5 cash money versus a new factory rifle for 5-10 times that. Seriously important for a fella making a couple bucks a day with a wife and kids to feed. To "sporterize" a 30" barreled Infantry rifle all you needed was a hacksaw and a file, or spring a couple bucks more for a cavalry carbine and save yourself the bother. Some outfits specialized in cutting down Krag rifles to carbine length for resale, again for just a couple bucks. U.S. military surplus ammo was everywhere for about $10/1000, and life was good. Difference in performance from a .303 British? None so's you'd notice.

Today I mainly shoot Lyman #311284 220gr. cast bullets. At 2000fps they duplicate the old standard military and sporting load that garnered the Krag's reputation as good medicine for anything on four legs that needed to be eaten.

My Swede is an FN Mauser with a Shilen barrel. With good brass it’ll handle .270 pressure. With those ya bout gotta hand load.

DF

Off topic but...I just read a photocopy of an article in Harpers Magazine, dated back in the '50's, kind of a cameo piece on an arms dealer by the name of Sam Cummings, founder of Interarmco in Virginny. One example of his business acumen...he bought 500,000 Lee Enfields for as low as 28 cents apiece. He sold many of them at retail for 24.95. Now that my friends is a business model. Sam claimed in the article that he had enough small arms in his warehouses to equip 40 divisions.

That brings back memories. Hadn’t thought of him for years.

DF

I've been to Interarms a couple times, a loooong time ago. It was in No. Virginia about an hour from where I grew up. It was something to behold.

Legend had it that Cummings took it a step further with his Enfield deals and had them shipped in the bottom holds of freighters, consigned as ballast, which greatly slashed his shipping costs.

Civilian Marksmanship Program.

So far I haven't commented on this thread, because the original post (as others have pointed out) is ridiculous. Just because the .30-40's design was strongly influenced by the .303 doesn't mean .30-40s will chamber in .303 rifles.

While the rim's are basically the same diameter, the base of the .30-40s case is nominally. .4877" in diameter. The .303's is .4554. Aside from other factors such as bore diameter, it would require a REALLY oversize .303 chamber to accommodate a .30-40 round.

But the cases are similar enough that the "same" powder charges will work with the same bullet weights in both rounds. Have owned several rifles chambered for each, including a pair of Ruger No. 1s, and my favorite handload in each is around 48 grains of H4350 and a 180-grain bullet, which gets just about the same velocity and fine accuracy in both rounds. (This powder charge is over "maximum" in some manuals, but have never had any problem with it in stronger .30-40s, though tend to stop a little lower in Krags.)

There are some chamber adapters out there, originally to convert Garands to .308, but they have to be removed with, IIRC, a stuck-case remover, which might destroy them. There are other converters and inserts around too, though I’ve never tried one. I’ve been tempted by the .22 Hornet one for my .410, also the .22 one for my .44 Low Wall.


http://mcaceak.com/shotgun-inserts.html

Interesting thread, really like the Krags.
I sure wish my 6.5 Norwegian shot a decent group, I think the throat is shot out.

My only Norwegian 1912 had a great bore and throat, and grouped very well. (It had been "sporterized," but still had the issue military sights.)

You mean like, will a Remington LRP work for reloading a Winchester .30-30?

My dad used to tell of a pioneer neighbor that used 303 British ammo in a Winchester 1895 in 30 US. This was back in the depression and people used what they could scrounge. The 303 would appear to be about .060 too long to the shoulder but the rifle may have been worn. Also an inventive type could run the right size twist drill into the chamber. 30-40 ammo was never popular in Canada back then.

Slightly off topic, but havent guys rebarreled Siamese Mausers to 30-40 Krag?

Yep, and .45-70, and .348, and.....just about any large-ish rimmed cartridge that's of a length to fit in the magazine. The big attraction for them in that regard was their slanted magazine box which was designed for fat rimmed cartridges.

You might enjoy this:

Mine has been sporterized, so it didn't bother me to install a Lyman aperture sight on the receiver.
The original rear sight had already been changed out.
I was hoping for a 200 yd rifle, but doesn't group at 100, I have tried a variety of off the shelf ammo.

I would like to try some 160 g round nose loads, but need to buy a set of dies.

The reciever is in nice shape, I want to say its stamped 1913, 3 digit serial number.

Yes, I happen to have one.

Nothing wrong with 160 gr in the Krag Jorgensen, but if you can get the S&B 156 gr, they're cheaper too, and they work very well with a variety of powders. I suspect the profile of the S&B acts as a bore riding nose. The bore diameter of my 1894 KJ is .257...yours may vary.

My only 30-40 Krag and 303 British rifles are Winchester 95 carbines. The 303 probably walked across the Canadian border from the eastern townships of Quebec into either northern NH or VT by some woodsman who worked for the Brown Company in Berlin, NH, and sold it when he needed beer or brothel money.

The nicest Krag that I ever owned was a Mannlicher-stocked rifle that Vermont 'smith Wilbur Hauck put together. Sadly, I had to sell it to pay the bills back in 1983 when my first marriage failed and my ex-wifes's goodbye gift was to cash advance our joint credit card account to the tune of $5K at 21%.

My only Krag is a sporterized Norwegian, #921xx, don't remember what year it was made and never knew what its original configuration was, as I bought it this way.

3 more rifles that I must not need, as I haven't shot any of them within recent memory.

JOC's first deer died via a sporterized 30-40 Krag that he'd bought from a hobo for $1.50.

You can read about it on pages 96 thru 98 of The Hunting Rifle.

Back to the OP. The 30-40 Kraig had a service life of less than 7 years before it was replaced by the 1903 Springfield, later to become the 03-A3. They were sold off cheap and a lot of folks bought them as a deer rifle, shot it and put it away dirty without cleaning it. Corrosive powder ate the bore, and there aren't too many on the market with good bores.

The 303 case is 2.222 oal is 3.075 bullet dia .312 Mpa 365.00
30-40 case is 2.314 oal is 3.089 Bullet dia .308 Mpa 325.00

Yea, it might chamber, but the .312 bullet in a .308 bore will cause pressure issues. The higher operating pressure of the 303 compound the pressure issue.

Can you fire a 303 Brit in a 30-40 Kraig? Probably. Is it dangerous? I might be bold, and I might be brave, but you're first!

Haven't read the thread yet, but I would point out that it would have been better to start it on Sunday, which is the traditional day for sermons.

I would look for a better bad idea.

H. M. Pope – Last of the Great Gunsmiths by Lucian Cary

Harry Pope has always taken the same attitude toward more important matters, he was asked, after he became famous, to select the barrels for an American rifle team going abroad to shoot a rifle match. The conditions called for military rifles and at the time the military rifle of the United States was the Krag-Jorgensen, The Krag was made at Springfield Armory which was then, as now, a first rate shop. However Springfield was having trouble in keeping the interior of the Krag barrels to specifications. The theory was, as it still is, that a bullet with a hard metal jacket should have the same diameter as the groove diameter of the barrel in which it was shot. The standard diameter of the Krag bullet was .308, and so was the standard groove diameter of the Krag barrel. However, Krag barrels were coming off the machines bigger than .308, sometimes as big as .315, and the bigger barrels were not accurate. Pope went to Springfield Armory with a pocket full of buckshot, a machinist’s hammer, a hardwood punch and a micrometer caliper. The superintendent greeted him with courtesy and asked him what he wanted. Pope replied that he wanted a bench with a vise, a cleaning rod, and a rack of new Krag barrels, so the superintendent showed him to a bench and had a man wheel in a rack of barrels. Pope put a barrel in the vise and laid his hat upside down under the breech end. He tapped the buckshot into the muzzle with his wooden plug, so it filled the barrel to the bottom of the grooves, he then pushed his lead slug through the bore with a cleaning rod, caught it in his hat so that it wouldn’t be mutilated, and measured it with his micrometer caliper. “What are you doing?” the superintendent asked. “Measuring the groove diameter of the barrel.” Pope replied. “But you can’t do it that way.” “Why Not?” “Because the lead expands when it comes out the end of the barrel.” “Well now,” Pope replied, “I’ve never heard of that. Have you got a gauge with a hole in it of known size?” The superintendent found a gauge with a .300 hole in it, and both Pope and the superintendent checked it, and then Pope drove one of his buckshot through the hole in the gauge and then handed it to the superintendent. The lead slug hadn’t expanded after going through the hole, it measured .300. Since the superintendent was an honest man, he admitted that Pope was right and he was wrong. When Pope had finished his job of selecting twenty Krag barrels, two for each member of the team, with the groove diameter of .308. The superintendent showed Pope the elaborate and expensive gauge that Springfield Armory had been using to measure the inside of the Krag barrels, and Pope showed him why the gauge was so inaccurate that it couldn’t be relied upon to tell the difference between a barrel with a groove diameter of .308 and one of .315.



i have a late model (1903) Krag that was dirty as all heck. it took me 5 or 6 days to make the bore bare steel. i had cupronickel shavings, black gunk, brass shavings, black gunk, brass spirals, black gunk, bluish-green patches, black gunk and black gunk. i measured the lead slug at .3085". i know i have good one. it shoots (.311") 165gr Ranch Dog with H4198 that goes 1926fps. i have killed 12 - 13 deer with the Krag. i've seen a '96 Krag that has a .3135" bore.

most of the Springfield Armory Krag's barrel are clean. but i've seen the Krag with a sewer pipe barrel.

100 yard target/bench with a Redfield 102K aperture sight. every one them are (173gr actually) 165gr Ranch Dog



[img]https://i.imgur.com/eqVnKIw.jpg?2[/img]

7 - 10 are a group, 1 - 6 are sighters.



my great grandfather bought the Krag for $2. Great grandfather, grandfather, dad, uncle (RIP guys) had the Krag. it was given to me by my grandfather. my oldest son will have it next.

No doubt, there are good Kraigs out there. They are butter smooth interesting rifles but, (OP) would you shoot a 303 Brit out of a 30-40 Kraig? Military FMJs are not hand loads. I repeat myself, "I may be brave...." It may work once or multiple times, but you're asking for trouble.

Back to the OP, he asked about firing a 30-40 Krag in a 303 British.
It's not a good idea, but it's not what you posted.

ooops!You're right, my bad. In that case, I believe the answer would be NO! The 30-40 is a longer cartridge.

Is Krag brass thicker than 303 brass,rim?

303 British ammunition and 7.7X58MM ammunition look similar to each other also

The most "interesting" thing I've seen in this thread (at least so far) is how many people can't spell Krag--the common name for the round, even though the U.S. military didn't call it that.

Krag comes from the primary designer of the Krag- Jorgensen action--Ole Herman Johannes Krag, who was in charge of the Norwegian military armory in Kongsberg, not far from Oslo. His main assistant was Erik Jorgensen.

Ole's last name was spelled Krag--not Kragg or Kraig, or another I have seen more than occasionally on the Internet, Craig....

Thanks John for verbalizing my pet peeve #57!

Yeah, the Army labeled it after the model years (1892, 1896, 1898, 1899). Note that the Navy didn't use the Krag. They went in an entirely different direction but that would take us too far into the weeds here.

Cartridge was known as .30 Army, and it was civilian makers who named it .30-40 after caliber and powder charge (smokeless in this case, not blackpowder) as was customary at that time. Most if not all headstamps of the era said .30 Army on them though (except government ammo which was headstamped only with initials of the arsenal where it was made and the month&year).

The .30-06 was called .30 Government early on in its lifetime, to differentiate from the .30 Army. (Small historical trivia: for a really short time when the .30 Gov't came out, in some circles it was called the ".30-45" denoting a step up in powder charge over the .30-40. You'll sometimes see the .30-45 referenced in writings from the earliest years of the century, and some loading tools were so marked also.)

Like this Ideal (predecessor of Lyman) de/re-capping tool:



You can see the stamp that shows what it was intended for, .30-45 (It doesn't work for the .30-40):



I actually used it this evening to de-cap 100 .30-06 cases.

The government's answer to the same tool. Made by Frankford Arsenal in 1909, works a treat for '06, .30-40, and .45. (Issued to military units for the purpose of reloading spent cases to create reduced load practice ammo.):

And AKA .30 US.

Yep. Sometimes you needed a score card to know who the players were!

One of the oddities (or at least I think so) is that only three countries ended up adopting Krag-Jorgensen rifles for their military. The first was Denmark, with an 8mm round. The second was the U.S., and the LAST was Norway with the 6.5x55.

Some of this appeared as Chapter 51, "Several .30-40 Krags," in the first Big Book of Gun Gack. But I have also mentioned that the cartridge most American call the 6.5x55 "Swede" was co-designed by the then United Kingdoms of Norway and Sweden, though they each used a different rifle, Norway the Krag-Jorgensen and Sweden various versions of Mausers. But it would be too complicated to call it the 6.5x55 Norwegian-Swedish Krag-Mauser--which is one reason SAAMI "officially" calls the round the 6.5x55 Swedish.

Did the 30 03 ever have any other names/ designations ?



BTW
Perhaps they should remarket the 6.5 Swede as the 6.5 Kragmore!

Spelling and grammar have fallen out of fashion, and those who gently point out errors are Nazis, it seems. I guess we’re living in the age of White Ebonics (I misspelled that just now, but took a few seconds to correct it).

I don't know where he comes up with this stuff...my 13 year old grandson informed me last week that the .50 BMG will go into a 12 ga chamber. I of course replied, nonsense and horsefeathers. He said he saw it on YouTube. I have one of those NRA promo .50 BMG bottle openers...sure as hell, it will fit sloppy in his Browning Superposed...kinda sorta. Great possibilities here in the urban gang warfare world, H&R Topper and one free .50 BMG for 100 bucks, amaze your Homies, act now, supplies are limited.

Yeah
I've seen a lot of bs stuff on yoofloob while looking at
various gun and reloading videos.
The reloading has a large percentage of bs as far as
just bad wrong information.
My only worry is that a beginner doesn't have the
knowledge to be able to sort out the manure from
the diamonds. I sometimes wonder if some of those
videos are misleading on purpose trying to get the
uninitiated to make a mistake for the sake of some
stupid prank

There's a lot of literature about the U.S. Krag rifle and most of it is fascinating reading (for a rifle loony anyway who really digs the history of how we got to where we are today). The first book that dealt with the Krag in what I would call a "modern" style of practical info about the design of the rifle and the practical usage of it was written in the late 1890's and first printed in 1903 when the Krag was still in front line service. Its author was Dr. W.G.Hudson, and titled "Modern Rifle Shooting from the American Standpoint". It's been re-printed occasionally over the last 120 years and can be found today in digital format in the public domain right here on the good old Internet. It would behoove anybody with an interest in Krag rifles to read it - and it's a quick read, being a rather small book.

Dr. Hudson was an interesting cat. A medical doctor who seems to have spent a lot more time messing with rifles than he did doctoring. He was renowned in shooting circles for his marksmanship skills and general handiness around a rifle range, and contributed greatly to bullet design and ballistics - not unlike a certain MuleDeer in our midst. (For those cast bullet shooters among us who are familiar with the Lyman mold #311284, it was Dr. Hudson who designed it. It's a 220 grain bullet that was cooked up specifically for the .30-40 Krag, allowing for duplication of the old standard factory/gov't load of 220 grains at 2000fps but with a cast bullet. Still a very popular .30 mold today.)

I have a 1st edition copy, Dr. Hudson's personal copy in fact. It cost me dearly because the seller knew what he had. I stood there at that gun show table and tried to bargain, unsuccessfully, but left with it with a smile on my face. Coincidentally I also came away with a couple of Ned Robert's personal range notebooks from 1909 and 1911 in which he recorded test results with a specific M1903 Springfield. I couldn't afford supper that night! (If anyone in our midst owns that Springfield, serial # 144079, I would grovel at your feet for a chance to buy it!)

I hope you at least had enough $$ to spring 4 a highball.

Doesn’t matter. Got an 1895 Win for each cartridge. And I can read! 🤣

Which one do you prefer?

kaywoodie;
Top of the morning to you my cyber friend, I hope all is well in your section of Texas.

If you or anyone cares to comment, I'd be curious to know how many 95's were made in .303, truly even a rough guess.

The reason I ask is up here in what one would think might be where we'd see them, I can only recall seeing two or possibly three 95s in .303 over a lifetime of looking at as many unique Winchester rifles as possible.

In many historical photos from BC around the turn of the century, we'll see photos of 95s for sure, but most I run into which are still in family hands are in .30-40. I can name a couple off the top of my head - rarer carbines - which are .30-40 and the one 95 I owned for a brief while was a rifle in that chambering.

A shooting and gunsmithing mentor who passed years back had about 8??? 95s in his collection, including a first year flat side, but since he was a collector at least a couple were .38-72 and .40-72 which he liked as they were odd to see up here.

All the best and thanks in advance.

Dwayne

Greetings Dwayne. Hope you and your loved ones are doing well!

I do not know off top of my head and my copy of the new 1895 book is trapped away in a box up in the barn somewhere. I’ve only seen a couple in my cruising around as well and one is up in my gun safe.

Cheers to you and happy new year!!

Bob

kaywoodie;
Thanks for the reply sir.

If you ever find the book and happen upon that info, please feel free to drop me a line here or on FacePlant.

When I looked up the list of chamberings, I realized that I can't place a single instance of 7.62x54 Russian - well maybe one at a gun show one time, but I can't say that with certainty either.

Funny enough as well, I'd say that .30-06 is likely tied with .30-30 as the most popular chambering or better said ammo boxes at the hardware stores when I was a kid - well along with .303 because nearly every farmhouse had a LE or Pattern 14 somewhere. Despite that, I've only seen a handful of 95s in 30-06 up here - well the older ones at least Bob.

The new Miroku ones we do see at the gun shows from time to time, but after looking at the asking price tag, I can't recall looking at one any closer.

Not that they're not worth whatever the asking is or was, just that it isn't a number I'm comfortable spending on a new production rifle.

Thanks again and have a great Sunday.

Dwayne

To me the epitome of a turn of the century (20th century) hunter is a steely-eyed rugged cuss standing on a rock with a mountain vista behind him - wearing jodhpurs, knee high wool socks, calf high lace-up boots, wool shirt, fedora on his head, and a cartridge belt with sheath knife around his waist. Clutched in his hands is an 1895 Winchester, of course.

I’m sorry Angus. I like em both. But I’m really partial to the .30 US

On another note I have a very old box marked .30-220. For Springfield and Winchester rifles

As a kid I read a 1915ish book entitled The Ringnecked Grizzly. The protgonists went on a long hunting trip, two adults and two teanage boys. They carried 95s in .33 Winchester among other period arms. I'd love to read that book again!

You realize, I occasionally dress in this fashion while afield. 😉

Figured you did!

Umm, perhaps the reason for the steely eyed visage with a rather unpleasant cast, with obvious beads of perspiration, was he was tired of trying to pack a '95 by it's awkward balance point...invariably right on the #@*&%! hangy downy magazine thingy. Not to mention, it was heavier than a dead Mennonite.
If you again look carefully at the painting, several hundred yards out in front of ol' steely eye, there is gentleman of a more pleasing countenance, dressed in less flamboyant costume, bounding over boulders the size of an oxen, cool, dry and contented if not smug...clutching ever so lightly a 99 Savage in .38-55. You will note upon closer inspection, he needs not carry a showy knife nor a Mexican like display of cartridge belt.
I much lament the lack of observation of some on the wrong side of the Rockies.

99s do balance nicely right ahead of the lever.....but can sure freeze your hands on a cold day! I think that fellow had a .303 Savage, though.

I don’t have issues packing my 1895’s. I enjoy packing them. I think it one reason both the .30 US and the .303 standard rifles have 28" barrels.

Was gonna say, “Sounds like Bob”, but rascally old gnoahhh might just be trolling you a bit….

Moi?

Me, I'm an East Coast kinda guy. Woolrich coat and jeans for stumbling around the woods. (No tree stands for me either, fear of heights has always kept me out of them.) Single shot rifle, or Krag or Springfield clutched firmly in hand with a couple spare rounds in a pocket completes the ensemble. Shoes are optional.

I don't know if I would say I know more about this subject than most, but I think I probably do. I have owned rifles chambered for both. I have fitted and chambered at least a couple dozen 30/40's and as many 303's. When I was 14, I pulled the bullet from a 30-40 cartridge, dumped the powder into a vial, then did what I had to in order to get the case to chamber in my #4. As I recall, I had to reduce the diameter of the case at the shoulder (I rolled the case between two pieces of iron), trim it to length, then turn down the diameter of the rim by about .005" (I chucked the case in a drill and trimmed the rim with a file). Once the case would chamber, I reloaded the powder charge and bullet and fired it. It formed perfectly. For no more than 2 hours labor, I had a perfectly serviceable 303 case! At that time, I could buy all the 303 ammo I wanted for 3 bucks a box (that was 3 hours work for me, mind you). I only did it to see what was necessary to make it work. If there was any pressing reason to do so, I could chamber a rifle so it would accept factory ammo for either one, but I honestly can't see the point.
The bottom line is this; the cartridges do not interchange.
Duane, I don't know how many 95's were made in 303, but I've seen quite a few, and rebarrelled some. One of the rarest I ever saw was one which Mick McPhee showed me. It was a flat side, factory engraved, with a three digit serial number. It was marked "303 English" on the barrel. It had been left with a guide from Lilloett, as a tip, by his British client, in the early 1900's. The bore was a bit frosty but it shot OK. GD

greydog;
Good afternoon and belated Happy New Year to you and yours sir.

Thanks so much for the post, I very much enjoy reading both of your experience in early firearms modification and you sharing what you've seen.

That flat side 95 would have been so cool to see!

Like my late friend who had a fair sized collection, I wonder what's become of the collection now and I hope Mick's stuff went to good homes.

I'm not sure if I've not seen as many .303 95's because I've not done a lot of the bigger shows like Kamloops perhaps?

That said greydog, as often as I could, I'd have our eldest daughter as my gun show partner and if something wasn't on either of our lists, we might bypass it so there is that too.

Somewhere in the collection is a partially full box of 1954??? British surplus .303 ammo - I want to say it's a 32 round box maybe? Anyways it's asking price is $3 and change with an Army & Navy price tag.

All the best to you and yours in 2024 and thanks again.

Dwayne

Kamloops, in the '70's, was a pretty good place for unusual guns and that time period was kind of the tail end of the availability of a lot of stuff.
By the way, I'll have a couple of tables at the Kamloops show this year (my first attendance in close to twenty years). If you make it, be sure and drop by. GD