Can anybody tell me about the 30 cal 180gr. Mag Tip bullet made by Speer.I bought this box of bullets by mistake a long time ago.Would they be a suitable bullet for medium sized white tails out my 30/06?

The Mag Tip is a cup and core bullet made by Speer's Hot Cor process. The inside of the jacket is scalloped near the tip so expansion is supposed to be easily initiated even at modest impact velocities. The jacket in the shank of the bullet is supposed to be heavier than that in the regular Speer bullets, the idea being to slow the expansion once the easily started tip has mushroomed.

I have a nice load for my 300 Savage using the 150 grain version, but I haven't killed anything with it yet. It reads like a good deer bullet at sub-magnum speeds though.

mathman

Thanks mathman,that's what I wanted to hear.I really was wondering if it was a bullet for the magnums or for more sedate speeds such as the '06 on down.

I just looked in one of my Speer manuals where they said the shank portion of the jacket was roughly 45% thicker than the same portion of an equivalent Hot Cor spitzer. They also gave specific mention of the fact that the fluted jacket assures expansion even at 300 Savage velocities.

Maybe someone who has used the 180 on deer at your expected velocity will chime in.

mathman

AH...The Speer .308 180 grain Mag-Tip is my current "go to" bullet for my .300 Savage model 99 EG. It is my bullet of choice for Black Bear here in the dense woods of western Washington State where I killed one last fall with a shoulder shot and the the bullet held together while also breaking the spine....the finisher shot in the lungs passed all the way thru but the shoulder shot I recovered and it weighed 143 grains (about 80% retention) and I think it would also be a good bullet for Elk and Deer. I hope to find that out this fall.

I originally chose them as they are a short 180 grain bullet that feeds well in my short magazine rifle and short little .300 Savage case and have since found them to be a great bullet for my purposes!

I have shot a lot of them into test media as follows; A double folded over water soaked fleece jacket, a two inch thick water bottle then a 3" dry phone book backed by 5 water filled gallon milk jugs and they hold together everytime and penetrate about as deep as Nosler Partitions I have tested while retaining more weight and costing half as much!

They are basically a Speer Grand Slam without the heel lock. I have sectioned them and have noticed the cannelure is a mechanical lock like a Remington Core-Lokt and unlike normal Speer Hot-Cor's that dont have cannelures. If you look at one of the 180 grain bullets you will notice a machine cut just above the cannelure, that acts as an expansion stop, as in my testing I noticed that the jacket folds over at that point and slows jacket expansion.... a good idea that seems to work well in my experience!

I only shoot them in a .300 Savage but my brother uses them in his .300 Savage, 7.5x55 Swiss, .308 Win and his 30-06 and likes them also.

The B.C. isn't the greatest at .349 but good enuf for 300 yards without losing too much performance IMO.

I like them so much I just ordered 1000 more of them!...

Using the Hot-Cor process, the cannelure lock, the 45% thicker jacket base and expansion stop ring makes for a tough bullet at a great price!

I also would like to hear what the gunwriters say about them tho as my experience with them on game is limited to one black bear but they shoot accurate in my .300 Savage loaded up to about 2500 fps in my hunting loads and hold together great in my test media.

My long winded 2 cents worth

What's your load for 2500 fps with a 180?

mathman

I once made a perfect back-strap shot on a cow elk about 100yards away. i was trying to hit the base of her tail and got the back-strap. Anyway, the 180gr. Mag Tip penatrated 11ins. of the strap hitting nothing but soft meat. Then the core left the jacket for another 3ins. and stoped. It did put the elk down for a finisher. This was out of an 06 starting at 2600fps. Pedro

I WAS using Varget and using Lymans top load (41 grains) in the 48th edition manual but was getting 2430 average not the 2500 it said in the manual so I asked my brother to load some up with Reloader 15 as he had some and I didn't....

He tested them and was using data from Speer's #13 manual which gave 43 grains RL15 as the top load. He used 42.5 and a 180 grain Sierra RN and got an average 2481 fps with 10 shots from a 1953 model 99R .300 Savage. I asked him to send me 10 of those loads to shoot in my 1950 99EG.

They both have 24" barrels. I shot them and got an average of 2542 fps with the same 42.5 grain load! The fastest was 2560fps!!! I said HOLY $HIT and went and bought some Reloader 15 that day....BUT!!!!

I did notice a tiny bit of resistance ejecting those rounds tho and decided to work up from 40 grains in .5 grain increments till I got the first signs of excessive pressure...

I got to 42 grains and started to feel the smallest bit of resistance on ejection so I dropped to 41.5 grains and all is well but that is MAX in my gun...your mileage may vary.

The difference in velocity must just be the barrels of our respective rifles I guess?

I also noticed a speed increase of about 20 fps when I used the 180 Speer Mag-Tips compared to the Sierra 180 Rn he sent me to test. The Mag-Tip has a longer bearing surface and in measureing that I found the cannelure ever so slightly exceeded .308....Gas Check?.....

So MY hunting load is a Speer 180 Grain Mag-tip, 41.5 grains of Reloader 15, WW cases, CCI 200 primers and a light crimp in the cannelure to even out the start pressure curve and I weigh each charge to get exact 41.5 grain weight. This is a slightly compressed load with the 180 grain bullet seated to Speer's recomended 2.535" OAL.

I get 2510-2515 fps average from 10 shots conistently with a standard deviation of about 17-22 fps with NO signs of excessive pressue in MY gun...again....your mileage may vary! It is a pretty warm load.

as an aside; the Speer manual says THEY used 43 grains of RL15 in a 20" barrel 99E....I WOULDN'T TRY THAT IN MY RIFLE!!! Hell I'd probably get close to 2600 FPS but its not worth the risk!

99Lover,

Thanks for the data. I'm running a Remmy 700 Classic and it really likes 40 grains of IMR-4895 under 180 Speer BTs in R-P cases. I get 2400 fps and great accuracy just like my older Lyman (46th) manual suggests. Using Hornady's data for Re-15 I get about 2600 with a 165. I just might see if I can creep up on 2500 with the 180s. I can typically run a 2.7" overall length.

mathman

It ought to be easy in a newer bolt action to get 2500....Hell, my old Lever rifles older than ME...(just barely tho :))

I doubled checked my Lyman 48th edition manual which says 41.5 grains of RL-15 is max when I was working this up and it gave 2498 fps with the 41.5 grain load in their test rifle...About exactly what I get...

I average 2490 without the light crimp and 2510-2515 fps with the crimp....I use the crimp as it lowers my SD... as does the hand weighing of the powder....Good luck and safe shooting!

Still would like to hear from some gunwriters on THEIR experience with Speer Mag-Tips!!!

I've been loading the 180's in my Cousin's '06 for a few years now. Lots of deer have hit the freezer because of them! I'd not want to use them in a higher velocity cartridge, but they do a fine job on Wisconsin Whitetails when fired from the '06, for sure.

I had an internet friend on a now defunct website that was determined to kill a moose in his home state of Vermont with his Ruger 7x57 and was testing out several different bullets. I had bought a box of 175 gr. Mag-Tips in 7mm for $10.00 from a guy who was more or less selling out his reloading supplies.

So I sent Vermoose 20 to try out since I had never loaded or shot a one. My rifle was just a few serial numbers away from his so we had similar rifles. All I asked for were his results and opinions about the bullet. He shot them into wet phone books and stuff and claimed them to be about the toughest bullet he had ever seen as they would not expand well until he loaded them up to higher velosities in his 7 Mag. He came to the conclusion that they were designed for the 7 Mag. speed range so I have never loaded a one as I have only a 7x57 and a .280.

I don't need them in Arkansas, just bought 'em cause they were cheap and thought I might want to elk hunt sometime. One of my friends calls them the "poor man's A-Frame".

Maybe I should try them out at moderate velosity just to see what they will do to a 10 year old pine tree! Don't know what else to shoot 'em at around here. Oh I forgot.....Hogs! Brimfish

My old Speer Number Nine manual shows that very bullet nicely expanded after being fired into "wet-lap" paper pulp from a 7x57 at 300 yards. There's a photo on page 203 of the manual.

mathman

I don't know about the "Poor man's A-Frame" but at lower velocities they seem like a pretty tough bullet.

When I shoot the 180's out of my .300 Savage into my test media (which I outlined in my 1st post in this thread) they hit at about 2450 fps which you should be able to get out of both your 7x57 or .280....they expand well for me and penetrate to the 5th water filled milk jug after goin thru the 2" jug, 3" dry phone book, and soaked fleece jacket....about 30" total... My guess is those 175grain 7mm Mag-tips will kill Hogs dead!...Sectional density is .310 on that bullet...should penetrate well!

Would like to here from the gunwriters that have used them on game...

Sorry, I'm not a writer (yet?) but I have used the Speer Mag Tip bullets on deer. I've used the 180 grain from a 30-06 and the 160 grain from a couple different 7x57s. They are indeed excellent deer hunting bullets. The exit holes tend to be just a bit smaller than those left by the standard Speer Hot-Cor spitzer bullets of the same weight. Every deer shot with them died. I will say that in my Ruger #1A 7x57, the Mag Tip does not shoot quite as consistently as the pointed spitzer, and to a slightly different point of impact on target, so I must adjust the scope just a bit when going from one bullet to the other. This year I plan to try the 30 cal 180 grain Mag Tip in my 308 Kimber. We tried the 165 grain spitzer last year and of two deer shot with that bullet, neither exited. I will admit to you, however, that the shoulders of both deer were absolutely smashed by the 165 grain bullets. On my wife's deer, both shoulders were literally smashed to bits. I've never seen worse damage. My deer was shot in the ribcage and the far shoulder was smashed. I'm hoping the Mag Tip will be a little gentler on the hamburger and exit. Yeah, yeah, I know we don't have to hit them in the shoulders. But try as I may, I remain imperfect. Sometimes the bullet doesn't land just so. That is why I like to hunt with tough bullets that penetrate deeply if the shot strays a bit. Does that make me a bad man? Wait, don't answer that.
_

I loaded them for a few fellows that used them in their 300 Win Mags, and one that liked using them in his 7MM Mag.
They work well and the recovered ones always showed a nice mushroom.

Resurrecting a cool old thread for the 300 Savage.

Glad this reappeared as I have 4 boxes of 175 grain 7mm Mag-Tips and was kind of apprehensive on using them for southern W/Ts out of my 7x57. I had reserved them for my 7x64 thinking that may be the best option but, if 180s work in .300S then 175s should work in my 7x57.

Interesting thread.

As was mentioned above, I also got the impression that the Mag-tip was similar to the Speer Grand Slam(which is/was considered by many to be a great elk Bullet).
I used to shoot 160gr Mag-tips in my 7mm Rem Mag because they were so darn accurate in that particular rifle. Shot several whitetail with that bullet at 2,950 fps muzzle velocity(w/impacts on deer inside 150 yds). Never had a problem. They seemed to behave much like a Nosler Partition from what I could tell(Bang/flop). Good bullet that I found was easy to get to shoot well when other more promising bullets wouldn't group well. Never recovered one as they always left an exit hole.

They'll perform just fine in the 30.06 as fast as you can push them.

Leftybolt

They were one of my favourites, the 180 gr Mag Tip held up fine on moose at impact velocities of over 3100 fps. If I found some locally I would surely buy them. They were a tough bullet at prices just above the typical cup and core bullet.

I always wanted to try these. I cut my teeth reloading with a Speer manual that came with my Rockchucker master kit. I had it it set up on a utility workbench in the bedroom of my apartment when I was still in the military. I used to read over all the flavors of the Speer line and listen to others bicker about bullets at the gun shops. The mag-tip was always highly touted. I could never get grandslams to shoot worth a darm. Hot cors were okay, boat-tails a little bit better. I recently picked up some 150 hot cors for a 270 on sale, hope they do better than past experiences with them. The one hot cor that always shot well for me was the 7mm 145. It worked well in a couple of 280's. What kind of accuracy did the Mag-tip produce for those who tried them?

The 180 gr Mag Tips I mentioned shot very well in my old 308 Norma with several powders, almost anything went under 1" from what I remember. My cousin shot the 160's in his 280 Rem and they shot well too. Looks like they still make the 150 gr 30 cal Mag Tip, I remember it was a pretty tough bullet out of my 30-06 back in the day.

Have some 150 Hot Cor's as well that hopefully will bag a deer this fall for me in a 270 Win.

Yeah, gonna have to give them a whirl. Some online sources still have the 30 cal 180's available. Let me know how the 150's do in the 270 for you.

The 7mm ones worked great out of a 7RM on smaller deer. In shooting into a clay bank the bullets performed similarly to Nosler Partitions. I would not hesitate to use them on deer or elk sized game. The jackets are the same as the old grand slam it just does not have the dual core of the grand slam but I heard that Speer has omitted this on at least the smaller caliber bullets now. Curiously they did not reduce the price of the GS to that of the mag tip.

These worked well on hogs too and I like to use a slightly tougher bullet on them. I don't think they give up all that much in the ballistic coefficient department as the air friction at the tip is turbulent flow anyway. I think the hot core process helps keep the lead in the jacket too. It does not bond them but it is an air tight fit and there are no residual lubricants either like swaged bullets can have.

Per Speer's website in the FAQs: Speer Bullets - FAQs



In the Speer Reloading Manual #14, they go into a little further description than that answer above and added that "Further research showed that the jacket profile was more important to terminal performance" ... and that they redesigned the jacket to beef up the shank, and made heel folds between the base and sidewalls to create a pocket. The ternary Hot Core is then added and flows into the heel pocket for a combination of a mechanical and friction grip. These changes improved retained weights in test media by ten percent compared to dual-core Grand Slams and improved accuracy overall. Grand Slams are finished with a long protected tip so the ballistic coefficients are higher than the Mag-Tip.

When I read the description of the Mag-Tip in Speer #14 and compare to the Grand Slam, the only differences I see are the the Grand Slam has the mechanical heel lock (sounds similar to Hornady's InterLock) and a higher BC, longer protected tip.

ternary-alloy core

What is this? I am pretty gun geeky but have never run across this term before?

Three component. If I were guessing, they would be lead, antimony and tin. Be a good time for someone in the know like Mule Deer to chime in. Incidentally, I've wondered if there is a difference in Speer's antimony content vs other manufacturers and whether their lead cores are any harder. The reason why is it seems like Speer's manual lists lower velocities for equal weight bullets for a given cartridge than other manufacturers like Nosler and Hornady. That and I've seen posts here and there that Speer's bullets tend to generate a little more pressure. Maybe that is more a function of Speer's bullet profile and bearing surface though.

One other peculiar detail about the Mag-Tip I notice is that in the pic shown for its description in Chapter 3 of Speer #14, where they describe all their bullets, above the cannelure is another, narrower groove ring just before the nose begins its taper. However, when I look at load data in the back where they show pics of all the bullets in each weight for each cartridge, only the 30 cal 180 gr Mag-Tip exhibits that extra groove. One other bullet I see that second groove ring on is the .35 cal 250 gr Grand Slam. I think that bullet has been discontinued though. All the other Grand Slam and Mag-Tip bullets just have the regular cannelure.

Found a pic of it:

.[/quote] Maybe that is more a function of Speer's bullet profile and bearing surface though.[/quote]

I think longer bearing surface is it and possibly a higher copper content (stickier) jacket. Some data show the Hot Core separately from the boat tail which I assume have similar alloys but different bearing surfaces.

The old 7mm mag tips in 160 & 175 had the double cannelure or cannelure and crimp. You could see ridges inside of the jacket so looks like a mechanical means of holding the jacket in. It seemed to work as the mushroom would frequently stop at the fold/crimp.

When Speer announced they were being discontinued I bought up as many boxes of 175gr 7mm as I could find. Always wanted to hunt with the classic load that Bell, etc used.

From my research that machine cut is a physical barrier to over-expansion. The Mag Tip is designed to easily initiate expansion on impact, open to its design maximum then stop at that point & plow on thru.

Beautifully designed bullet, I use them in my .308 Savage 99E carbine.

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Hi,

Old thread indeed!
I can say I used, and use, in my 7mm Mauser rifles the 160 and 175 Mag Tip bullets. At 2750 and 2650 p/s respectively. Great bullets for big game in the 7x57! In my experience they work very much like the Nosler Partition on big red deer and wild boar around here. Never recovered one! Always exited with a good damage inside the animals.

PatagoniaHunter, yes it's an oldie. The Speer bullet thread got me going, as I've chosen the 180 grain .308" Speer Mag Tip as my close range hunting bullet on my peep sighted carbine. I'm hoping to recover a bullet this fall out of a black bear or elk if I'm so fortunate.

With it's thicker walled lower shank and that machine cut to stop over-expansion it should make a picture perfect mushroom. My muzzle Velocity will be in the 2400- 2500 fps range running Varget in the .308 Winchester.

I'll fine tune the load over my chronograph once the range opens back up this summer.

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Sounds like a good bullet for low recoil loads in an '06.

In my -06, the150gr HC MT has been my go-to for years. It seems to be "just right". A lot of critters have sure come to it.

hackleback, have you recovered a few bullets?

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I wish I had bought a whole lot more then I did. I used the 180 grain 30 cal in 30-06, 300 Win and 308 Winchester and my friend Don used the 165 grain in 30-06 and 300H&H.
In all the game shot with them by the 2 of us I never saw a bad result. Some better then others, but no bad ones.
Now they are gone. I wish I'd bought about 4000 of the 165s and maybe about 1000 180s now. As good as any cup and core bullet I ever used and better then probably 90% of them and in our rifles all of them would shoot sub-MOA with Don's 300H&H shooting the best at 7/16" with his best load.

Interesting read from a German hunting forum.


https://jasw.de/speer.html


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