I am looking at the .277/ 150 grain ( flat base) bullet.
I have not tried them in a long while, I had switched to the Grandslam. Elk are the primary quarry.
I am not a long shooter, BC is a non issue.
Have any of you done any generation, ballistic gel, or other tests?
Back to the future, me thinks. Let me/ us know your opinion, folks

Comerade, I call the Speer Hotcore "The Poor Mans Partition." They really hang together. I have zero experience with the 270 versions, but I have used the 150 and 165 in the 308 Win. Years ago I ran the 165 into phone books - it came out like an advertising photo. I took my heaviest whitetail with the 150, and 7x7 elk with the 165.

I'll be interested to hear first-hand accounts of the 270/150, but I suspect I'll learn they behave no differently than the 30 cal versions.

I don't have any experience on elk with them. However I have shot a ton of deer with that exact bullet. I have ever only found one in a deer. I would say partition like performance. It is also the most accurate bullet in my 270. I've been using them since 1975

In my recovered-bullet collection there's a 165 Hot-Cor spitzer from a mature whitetail buck that was angling away at around 125 yards. Muzzle velocity was around 2800, and found the bullet in the far shoulder. Weight retention was 84.8%.

Did have one 105-grain 6mm Hot-Cor leave its jacket at the entrance hole on another whitetail buck. Muzzle velocity was around 2900 from a .243 Winchester, and the range about 250--but the core kept going and broke the buck's spine.

Dad's been using them on white tail for years, usually at ranges measured in feet. We've recovered one bullet over the years from a walnut tree several feet from the deer. I've never weighed it; it is a pretty mushroom though.

Speer Hot Core bullets have served me well over the years. The 6.5mm 120 and 140, 7mm 130 grain and the 165 grainer in .30 cal are what I used most. I did have one odd incidence of a 6.5/140 fired from a 6.5x55 losing its core back in the late 90s, but I'd never judge a bullet by just one example. The jacket only penetrated a few inches on a hog, but the core continued forward and even exited -- and the hog was killed cleanly.

I still use the discontinued 6.5/120 in a 24" 6.5 BRM Contender. At a muzzle velocity of around 2600 fps, it performs beautifully.

Bobby,

I've only seen a very few cup-and-core bullets separate jacket and core, and in each instance the core kept going and killed the animal. Another was a mule deer buck quartering away at around 100 yards, and the bullet was a 130-grain Sierra GameKing started at around 3000 from a .270 Winchester. The bullet landed pretty much in the middle of the left ribs, which is where the jacket was found. But what remained of the core was found in the right shoulder. The buck collapsed right there.

Bob Hagel once wrote that once the jacket and core separate, "penetration soon ceases." Obviously that didn't happen with either of the those bullets--and the only other bullets I've found that separated had the core and jacket lying close to each other on the far side, where it obviously didn't matter either....

John

I have taken several decent sized whitetails with the 150 277 hot core bullets with complete satisfaction. Deer were on the ground in very short order, all bullets exited with good damage along the bullet path. Not a large sample but not one negative thing to say about them.

I killed a few Nevada and Idaho mule deer with them back in the 70s and early 80s. I don't have an exact number but I'd guess it was about 15.
I can't remember having anything bad to say.
Never recovered one, but the exits were in good straight lines, and all deer died from "very fast" to "instantly."

I only used one Speer bullet . A 243 Win. 100gr. and it worked well. One thing I can say is they are several dollars cheaper than Hornady and way cheaper than Sierra.

cant comment on that bullet but raven precision has .277 150 grain norma oryx on sale ...might be worth a look

John-

That's pretty much been my experience as well. The bullet that has separated the most for me has been the Hornady 6.5mm 123 grain SST when driven to around 2600 fps MV (impact ranges have been 120 to maybe 215 yards). I have in my possession several of them that separated, but in each instance, there has been ample penetration and a cleanly-killed animal. So I have no valid complaints in that regard and continue to use it with confidence.

On the other hand, I have several 123 grain SSTs here that have held together beautifully.





The two bullets below were each taken from large boar. They were killed just a couple days apart and at virtually the same range. Terminal performance was very similar, and both hogs were down in a hurry. But the bullets look vastly different as one is a mushroom and the other just the jacket as the core separated exited. Sometimes I think hunters over-analyze things and worry more about how a recovered bullet looks rather than appreciating the terminal performance it provides.

Worrying too much about what the bullets look like from recovered game is akin to up-armoring the spots where airplanes get hit and still make it back to base. If you put a decent bullet through the right spot on the animal (or airplane), it goes down.

I bought 2 boxes of .284 160 grain Hot-cors a few months ago. Haven’t loaded them yet. I figure they will work good in my 7x57 at 2650-2700 fps.

Ron

I killed 5 bull elk with a box of 100 160 mag tips in a 7 RM. back in the 80's. Shot fine. Excellent bullets.

20/elk?

They'll work fine.

Have mentioned this before, but am such an obsessive-compulsive bullet tested that once went to South Africa on a month-long "cull hunt," and one of the two rifles I took was a 7x57--which happened to group bullets in the 160-grain range into the same POI at 100 yards. So loaded several different bullets with the same powder charge, the 156 Norma Oryx, 160 North Fork Soft-Point, 160 Nosler Partition, 160 Sierra GameKing, and 160 Barnes TSX. Used them on game from springbok and impala to wildebeest and kudu. They all penetrated well at that velocity--one of the virtues of the 7x57--though perhaps my favorite as an all-round 7x57 bullet might be the Norma Oryx. It killed faster than the Partition and TSX, probably due to opening wider, and penetrated sufficiently on the larger, elk-sized game.

I'm pretty well convinced that Federal has loaded lots of Hot Core's in their great blue box ammo that is sold in the big box stores, etc..........Just my opinion anyway.
Looks like 'em and kills like 'em. Hot Core's are very well thought of in the hunting world mostly ( probably most who shoot them don't have a clue what they are and don't care ) lol and usually plenty accurate too. Go kill stuff with them!

The Speer Hot Core is probably my all time favorite cup and core bullet in 30 caliber; primarily the 165 gr. spitzer flat base. Roughly 16 deer from about 30 feet to 250 yards using a Ruger M77 RSI with 18.5" barrel. Velocity 2550 FOS at the muzzle. Als 2610 FPS from a 22" barrel Winchester M70. Only recovered one bullet and that was from the 250 yard deer.

I've only shot one elk with the Hot Core bullet, the 200 gr. spitzer flat base at a lasered 530 yards. Rifle was a Winchester M70 chambered to the .300 Win. Mag. Bullet was not recovered.

The only bullets I've done any shooting with in a .270 are the 150 gr. Sierra Game King and 150 gr. Nosler Partition. Mostly with the 150 gr. Sierra. I did use it in 2009 on an antelope hunt and at the hit the "goat" ran about 30 feet and died. Shot was at about 75 to 80 yards. Bullet passed clean through from just behind the ribs to between the neck and right shoulder. Very little meat damage.

I do have a fair amount for the 160 gr. Speer HC bullets for possible use in my 7x57 and .280 Rem. although the latter shoots bug holes from the .280.
PJ

The Speer Hot-Cor is no doubt my favorite bullet and has been for a very long time. I've been using them for over 30yrs with excellent results on game. I use the 120gr in the 25.06, 150gr in 308 and i used the 120gr in the 260 when they were available. They have always been plenty accurate and their price doesn't break the bank.

i use the Hot Cores in my 30 Remington (150gr FN) and 8x57 (170gr Semi SP) to kill deer. my dad (RIP) used a Speer 115gr HP in 7x30 Waters in his Contender 14" barrel and now i use 130gr Speer HP in 30 Herrett in Contender 10" barrel.

i used Speer's 150 and 170gr FN in my 30-30, 308 and '06 and they killed deer just as good as the Hornady bullets, that i used too.

for whitetails and black bear, use a cup-n-core bullet instead of a mono bullet. you are only trying to get a deer/black bear, not a guy with Level 4 body armor.

Raxorhog
I am pretty certain that the Federal Blue Box 270W 130 ammo is loaded with HotCore bullets. If so then I can report. For many trips for plains game I have taken a few boxes to leave for the camp rifle. I am guessing that over the years I left at least 200 rounds which have been used by hunters who don’t travel with rifles. Incidentally, I have recently been told that around 70% of hunters don’t bring their own rifles. This surprised me, actually shocked me.

Anyhow, my PH buddy says they work very very well. He says that they perform just as well as the handloads which I produce after much time, expense, and effort.

I do know that the 270W 130 gets around 3050 in a 22” barrel and that my carefully crafted handloads group a little better. BUT a well constructed 270W will shoot 3 shot groups into, on average, around .800” with that WalMart ammo!

I watched a mate shoot a chital stag (axis deer) with the 150gn 270 bullet at 100m. The bullet went through the chest and stopped under the skin on the far side. I thought it may have exited but the stag dropped on the spot.

RinB-

What I thought. I've used them ( Fed blue box ) for years to sight in rifles for myself and others. Bullets " looked " and acted familiar with the Hot Core's. I bought several boxes of Speer Hot Core 270 gr from Midway on a super discounted sale a month or two ago for my 9.3x62. They were discounted heavily and I have high confidence in them. Yukoner on here sent several ( in the field pics ) of what Speer's do to big game when field dressed. Impressive to say the least.

Thought it was intersting that the dark continent camp rifle is a 270 rather than a 3006 or maybe they keep both....................?

Razorhog

I picked up some Speer Hotcore .277/150's.
I went in looking for Nosler Partitions , the price of them was a little shocking and I reached to the side.
I have used the Hot Core bullet in the past, I cannot see how a Partition bullet is much more costly than a Hot Core to produce.
Partitions are fairly scarce to find , imo.
Partitions ( imo) work as well as or better than any other hunting bullet.
Not all hunter's are looking for a vld performing bullet, myself, I am more comfortable with a tenacious bullet.
One that I can afford to shoot on paper alot
The Speer 150 gr Hot core is affordable and deserves another try.

Anyone have any idea what bullet Federal uses in the 150-gr 7-08 blue box ammo? Speer doesn't make a commercial 150-grain 7mm bullet, but I wonder if they're making a proprietary Hot Core just for this load? I have several hundred of them from Rocky Mountain Reloading (pulled) and I know that Midway often offers "seconds" that looks like the same bullet. They shoot well on paper, but I haven't taken any game with them. Anyone have a clue if it's a Hot Core or something else?

RM

All my Dad ever used was HotCors. 130 gr in his 270. Never a failure. He started me on 87 gr in a 250 Savage. Killed way better than it should have. I have taken 3 different kids who have taken their first deer with a 250 Savage with 87 gr HotCors. Lots of excitement, but not with the bullet. Just killed within a few feet.

The 87-grain Hot-Cor was designed specifically as a deer bullet for the .250 Savage--NOT as a varmint bullet, which is what many "modern" hunters consider 87-gain .25-caliber bullets.

I recently bought a lifetime supply of them in case Speer decides to quit making them

I have visited both the Nosler and Speer factories more than once, and it's pretty easy to see why the Partition is FAR costlier to produce....

I understand what you’re saying. Much depends on what you’re hunting. In my case, and yours too perhaps, Partitions aren’t always necessary. Hot Cores and Interlocks are cheaper and work well.

In Canada, Partitions are the most expensive, regularly stocked bullets. Only the imports like Woodleighs (when they were still available) and some European bullets were as high priced.

Affordability does factor in to many of our purchases. There are situations where Partitions just aren’t needed, or too pricy given what’s being hunted.

I have never bought or used Nosler Partition bullets...ever.

Others in our group have and what was seen is that there is not a bit of difference as far as killing an animal compared to a Speer Hot Core.

All the animals died.

The question usually afterwards sitting at camp is "Why use the Nosler when the Speer does the same...everytime for a lot less money?

Best
Heavy

i use a partition when bullets start getting over 3000 fps anything under i would be fine with the hot core ...what velocities are you talking about where you see no difference

There was a Speer print ad, 1980s I believe, where they talked about how for whatever reason they had beefed up the jacket of the 165 grain, .308" Hot Cor. I think John Barsness found this one to be a pretty tough bullet.

I have killed a couple of does with the 87s out of a Savage 99F
250, and a few more with the 100s from 257 Robts Montana. I haven't caught one of either yet, and I haven't had to do any tracking.

I also load 180FN in 35 Rem for when I take my Dad's 336RC for its annual homage walks. Haven't shot any deer with it yet, though.

All three bullets were easy to load for and extremely accurate.

Gene,

Usually just under that 3,000 or just over that 3,000. At times higher depending on the load and cartridge.

Repeated time and time again..."put it in the right spot and the job is done".....what brand has made no difference.

An example is a 300 winchester owned by a young guy in our camp. He just started reloading around 2018 or so. First time he loaded it with a 150 grain hot core at over 3,000. Deer died 12-15 feet from where it was shot.
Same rifle same load a month later and this time with a partition same weight same speeds. Deer flopped around and died.

He laughed about it and said he would use them up and just use what as easier on his pocket book and available.

The end result is ALWAYS the same....the deer is dead.
The Nilgi is dead.
The hog is dead.
Blah , Blah , Blah.......

Nobody cared if the jacket came off or not......Hell, It was still dead.

Best
Heavy

That bullet happens to be the most accurate bullet in my handloads so far in both my 1 in 14” Savage 99 and my 700 Classic. The 100 grain Hot cores came in second as far as accuracy in both rifles.

The 250 grain hot core tied for the best accuracy in my 350 Rem Mag.

The only problem I’ve had with hot cores is with 105 grain in my 6mm Rem. The bullets didn’t open up. The pronghorn had 6 holes through the ribs before he dropped. That was a long time ago, perhaps their first production of that bullet.

A friend grabbed my 280 Rem off the seat in my pickup, loaded with 160 grain Magtips and shot through the shoulders of a cow at about 40 yards. It dropped instantly. I usually try to shoot near the heart with any bullet but that worked for him.

I’m starting to look at hot core bullets more and more due to: performance, pricing and availability. Can’t wait until fall to try a new load in a rifle I have not used for a while. It could very well be a 250 with hot cores.

My bench has stacks and stacks of Speer boxes.

Same with Hornady, Winchester power points when they are available I buy, also some Sierra not whole bunch though.

Then of course is PPU...lots of that too.

I do have Nosler BUT... only their ballistic tip stuff from SPS.

That's a lot of bullet for $0.46/pop.




GR

Heavy Docve,

You sound like you resent the fact that the Nosler Partition even exists.

Here are a few observations:

John Nosler did NOT develop the bullet for deer hunting. Instead he had a bullet, very similar to the Hot-Cor, fail to penetrate the shoulder of a bull moose in British Columbia. But he'd also killed plenty of deer, so wanted his bullet to expand on deer as well--which is why he designed it with a softer front core, and a harder rear core. This resulted in a bullet that has been popular among many hunters of "all-around" big game ever since.

Will also mention that I have hunted Texas at least a dozen times over the years, from the northeast corner to along the Rio Grande. Have used a bunch of different bullets, but the only Partitions used were 115's from a .257 Roberts, which dropped a bunch of pigs on the King Ranch a few years ago. Among the others were Speer Hot-Cors from Federal Blue Box ammo, used on whitetails during a mixed cull/trophy hunt south of Uvalde. Half were 100-grain .243s, and the other half 150 .308s. They all worked perfectly--as have a bunch of other bullets used on Texas pigs and whitetails.) Oh, and I killed my first nilgai, out of severa,) with a 250-grain Hot-Cor spitzer from a .358 Winchester, around 20 years ago.

But have also killed a bunch of big game around the world with Nosler Partitions, as has my wife Eileen, partly because we live in Montana, where we're often hunting elk along with deer--and in recent years may encounter grizzly bears, whether during our hunting or recovering game.

Have also hunted a bunch of other places where Partitions (or other deep-penetrating bullets) can be useful on game much larger than deer--some of them much larger than nilgai.

So are you pissed off that the Partition exists? Or that some people actually buy and use them?

Shot several bull moose with a 300 WM and 180 partitions with predictable results. Shot one small bull (at 200 yards) with the same rifle but a 180 hot-core and, while I ended up with a moose, it did not give the same level of penetration that the partitions had previously on shots broadside through the shoulders, FWIW. He hit the ground immediately (high shoulder shot) but was struggling to get up til I gave him another one in the neck.

I'd say that is correct. I bought some Federal blue box .25-06 ammo loaded with Speer 117gn soft points. Speer didn't offer that bullet either in its bullet line up.

I know for certain that both Federal and Remington have loaded Hornady Interlocks in some ammo within the past 20 years. (The Remington ammo was labeled "Core-Lokt.")

Boy, do I feel like an idiot!

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001645383?pid=179810

This has been an interesting read. Back in the mid 80s I was using 165gr hot cores as my 30-06 seemed to shoot them very well. I took a blacktail at a relatively close range, and thought by the wound channel, it seemed I had used a varmint bullet.

This experience made me move to Hornady and I haven't used a single Hot Core for anything but coyotes and paper since.

Maybe I should reconsider. It's hard to find fault with the Interlock though.

I like the Hornady Interlock as well as my go to cup and core hunting bullet. They just seem to shoot really well and kill deer and pigs dead. I like the .25 100gn, .26 129gn and .30 150 (308)/165gn (30-06).

But I have had good success with Speer bullets too but don't tend to load them much for some reason. Not because I don't like them but I just got used to loading Interlocks and Ballistic Tips. The only group that ever fired three shots touching (100m) was my .30-06 and the Speer 165gn SPBT. That bullet used to always shoot and was good pig medicine. My 30-06 loads have the Speer 180gn but I haven't fired that rifle for about 13 years.

I loaded the Speer 120gn SP in my M12 6.5x55 as well as some 120gn Sierras to try when new. The Sierras shot really well as you would expect but the Speers shot equally small groups. There was no way to distinguish the bullets looking at group size and yet Sierra seem to get the accuracy accolades, but the Speers matched them group for group.

And of course over here in Oz, the Speer 130gn HP has become the number one pig bullet in the .308. Despite being labelled a varmint bullet it absolutely slams pigs. Some blokes load it in 300 magnums but at 308 velocities it penetrates fine on pigs.

However, I could not get Speer 140gn SPs to shoot in three different 6.5mm rifles (6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5-284) and the same thing with the 7mm 145gn Grandlams in three different 7mm rifles (7x57, 7x64, 280). The 7x64 is a rebarrel job and is my most accurate rifle shooting Ballistic Tips and RWS bullets very well but it sprays the Grandslams into 2.5 inches. I guess some bullets were made on Friday afternoon.

So the Hot Cor is comparable to the Partition in performance on certain game?
Would it be considered to be a 90% substitute? Thanks.

At the risk of sounding pizzed off to some, I have gotten away from Partition's entirely for myself. I just don't see the difference between Partition's and Hornady Interlock and Speer Hot Cor on whitetails and pigs. I load for 243, 257 R, 270, 264 Mag and 30/06.....only one of these wants Partitions. And he'll come around in time.

A few more comments:

Stan V--There isn't any need to use Partitions on Texas deer and pigs--but as noted in one of my previous posts have killed a number of deer with Partitions in Montana and surrounded areas, both because I'm often hunting elk at the same time, and because deer get considerably bigger further north. Have killed two mule deer that weighed right around 400 pounds, one in Montana and another in Alberta. Have also seen cup-and-core bullets up to 150 grains fail to penetrate the chest cavity of northern deer when shot in the shoulder joint when quartering toward the hunter.

Elvis--The Speer boattails are not Hot-Cors. Instead they're formed the same way as most other cup-and-cores, by swaging the jacket around a piece of lead "wire." Their cores are softer than those of Hot-Cors--as a Montana friend discovered when he started guiding for moose and grizzlies in Alaska. His Montana elk rifle was a .338 Winchester Magnum, for which he handloaded Speer 225-grain boattails. He had a couple Alaska adventures with that combination before switching to 225 Partitions.

More generally, yes the 165-grain .30 Hot-Cor was beefed up years ago, because the original version wasn't quite up to some jobs. Which why the one I recovered from an angling-away shot on a whitetail buck retained around 85% of its weight. But it also didn't encounter any "heavy" bone while traveling from left rear ribs to the right shoulder.

Also might mention I, and often Eileen, during both our hunting and being invited by various manufacturers on hunts, have used a wide variety of big game bullets. This is one advantage of being "outdoor writers": You get to use a wide variety of products, often learning things you might not have otherwise. Offhand I can remember us using Hornady Interlocks, GMXs and InterBonds; Nosler Partitions, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds and E-Tips; Speer Hot-Cors and Grand Slams; Sierra ProHunters and GameKings; North Fork Softpoints; Combined Technology Fail Safes; Winchester Power-Points and Silvertips; Remington Core-Lokts and the bonded Core-Lokt Ultras; Barnes Xs, TSXs, TTSxs and LRXs; Swift A-Frames and Sciroccos (both versions); Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and Federal's Tipped Trophy Bondeds; Berger Hunting VLDs and Cutting Edge Raptors.

There have no doubt been some others I've forgotten, but my main point is that while Speer Hot-Cors are good hunting bullets, and will perform much like Partitions on smaller game, like any other cup-and-core they do not on larger game IF substantial bone is encountered. Which is exactly why Partitions were developed in the first place--along with the many other so-called "premium" big game bullets available today.

Oh, and these bullets were "field-tested" not just in Montana and Texas (where we've both hunted quite a bit) but in a couple dozen other states from the Deep South to Alaska, along with several hunts in Canada, Europe, New Zealand and Africa.

Mule Deer,

Thank you for sharing hunting experiences and the history of the partition.

All of us are free to choose what works.

i do not dote on the partition like some seem to.

I have nothing against the partition, I agree it works along with everything else.

I have family up in Iowa, Colorado and Idaho. They have used it along with other brands too.

A resounding YES, animals are larger the further north you go and a bullet design for that encounter could be needed.

I understand the potential bear encounter that may happen on an elk hunt so the use of the partition would be a consideration.

Again thank you for the shared experience.

Best
Heavy Dove.

I shoot the Speer HotCore 87 grain bullet in 1-14" ROT 0.257"l bore rifles, mostly in the 250-3000, because it is IMO the best commonly available 0.257" component bullet that stabilize in that slow ROT and provide decent accuracy and penetration.

I prefer to shoot ABs and Partitions in rifles and cartridges that are compatible with those bullet because the give me peace of mind. I know, based on my personal experiences, that they will reliably penetrate and expand every time. I had a bad experience of premature expansion with a couple of popular component bullets that I had use successfully for nearly two decades, but I lost confidence in them and moved on to the Partitions and later to the ABs.

Everybody has different experience that will influence their choices, my experiences influenced me to increase my use of Nosler bullets.

As w/ any cup-n-core, just keep it away from heavy bone.

Have used the Speer .277/150 gr. Hot-Cor literally for ever.

Was the first bullet handloaded w/ the ole Lee Hammer die, and still the bulk load today.

Like the current Speer Grand Slam (Mag-tip) in that weight as well.




GR

One of my "novelty" rifles is a little custom Mauser in the wild cat 375/350. It really likes the 235gr Speer, very accurate. But only paper so far...

I'm fairly certain recent production Federal Blue Box in 6.5 creedmoor is loaded with Fusion bullets, so being previously loaded with hot cores makes sense...

Thanks! I also want to mention, once again, that I've used plenty of Hot-Cors over the years, especially in eastern Montana, where there aren't any grizzlies--yet. (A few have been seen, increasingly, in central Montana over the past few years.)

One of the rifles I used Hot-Cors in was a pre-'64 Winchester "Westerner" .264 Winchester Magnum, with 140s handloaded to around 3240 fps from the 26" barrel. Used it particularly for mule deer doe culling on a ranch owned by a friend, during one of the "high" ends of the mule deer population cycle when abundant tags were available. Contrary to what somebody suggested earlier on this thread about not pushing Hot-Cors over 3000 fps, they worked fine, even at ranges as close as 100 yards--though all the deer were shot broadside through the ribs. The results were quick kills and 3/4" exit holes, regardless of range.

Good hunting,
John

I have always liked the Speer Hotcor bullet. The 150 grain bullet in my 270 was all I loaded in it for years when that rifle was used as a loaner. I used it some but mostly friends of mine from Texas would get into draws and back in the 80's and early 90's it was easy to draw tags. That rifle never failed to give good performance on Mulies,Antelope or elk using that bullet. I like the 30-06 more and first started hunting it using the 150 grain Hotcor. It killed 13 head of game in 1993 in one season using that bullet. The Elk though, hit in the shoulder running, it fell nicely in a short distance caused me to switch to the 180 gr. Hotcor. The 150 grain bullet barely made it to the inside of the ribcage on the far side. It did break the onside shoulder bone. A couple years later I made a very similar hit on another elk and that bullet ended up under the hide on the far side. I started using the 180 and 200 grain Partitions for timber hunting after that.

I also started using the 200-grain Partition for timber elk hunting in the .30-06 after occasional inadequate penetration from some other bullets. This was in the mid-1970s, when there weren't nearly as many elk in Montana, and on public land many if not most were in the thick stuff during rifle season.

It was also when Partitions were still lathe-turned, and they called the 200 a "semi-spitzer" or "blunt nose." They all exited--and killed well.

A couple years later Nosler started impact-extruding bullets, and the 200 became a "full spitzer," which I used for years until becoming a "gun writer" and having to try a bunch of other bullets.
But handloaded to 2700 fps it worked great not only on elk but deer and even one pronghorn--when I got my ammo mixed up. (The "deer" load I used back then used a 165-grain bullet that looked the same.) It worked fine on the antelope too, without ruining nearly as much meat....

I forgot to add I loaded the 8mm 170gn Speer semi spitzer in my Sako 8x57. It shoots three into under an inch at 100m, as good as 180 Ballistic Tips will shoot. And the 90gn in my .243 and the 100gn HP in my first .257 Roberts and .250 Savage. I remember the .257 100gn HP was a very good bullet on pigs but the wide hollow point used to catch on the edge of the recess in the rear of the barrel for the claw extractor.

I've shot a lot more Speer bullets than I thought I did. Oh and the 150gn SP in my Ruger #1 303. There's probably a couple more that I've forgotten.

Tag

Is the current Grand Slam the same bullet as the old Mag-Tip?

There you go again - confusing me with facts!

That I don't know. The "new" ones are one piece core as opposed to the amber box ones which were a two piece core, soft up front and a hard section in the rear.
I sectioned a 6.5 140 grainer last fall and the jacket is thinner up at the tip and then gets thicker starting about the end of the ogive carrying through to the base.
I believe the new ones are "harder" than the Hot-Cor bullets and can be driven faster. I could be wrong though.
My son and I recovered 2 165 GS's from bucks he shot with his .308 Montana and both were mushroomed well. One weighed 130grains+/- a little, that shot was straight on with the head down @ 180 yards and it took out about 12" of spine and stopped in the paunch in front of the hams. The other one was 112. The 112 caught the offhand shoulder blade and run up it and was caught in the hide. Shot was about 50 yards slightly quartering away. That shroom was sorta folded over. The load is a milder load but I can't remember the FPS @ the muzzle.

More of less, near as I can tell.

Same drawn fluted nose, thicker jacket, and cannelure, sans the old GS dual core and sheared internal lock.


Consider'em near enough as same.

Priced accordingly as well.




GR

That's my conclusion: The recent Grand Slams are basically Mag-Tips. (Have explained why in previous posts over the past few years.)

No, their performance is not equivalent to Nosler Partitions--though the second generation of Grand Slams (introduced around 1990) performed very similarly to Partitions. But Speer changed everything a few years later--to essentially the same construction as Mag-Tips.

Also, no, you cannot tell which is which by the "amber" box. Have found at least three different versions in the amber boxes. Which is one reason I quit using Grand Slams at least a decade ago. Still use Hot-Cors, because they've been consistent for decades.....

As usual, I'm late to the party on this thread. However, I've killed more whitetails (around 230 to 240 of them) with Speer Hot Cor bullets than all the rest combined. The majority of my Hot Cor kills have been with the .308", 150 gr out of a .308 Win at about 2900 fps; second most with the .277", 150 gr out of a .270 Win at something a little above 2800 fps; but I've also used the 6mm, 105gr IIRC (this one may be discontinued now); .257, 100gr; 7mm 145 gr; .308, 165gr; .311, 150gr; .308, 150gr FN; .338, 200gr; and .375, 325gr.

My experience with the .277", 150gr Hot Cor from my .270 is that they penetrate VERY well, expand well, and hold together much better than a Hornady .277", 150g SST. During a CWD culling on our property, I had one more deer to take to fill our quota. I shot a doe, over 200 lbs, going almost straight away from me at about 115 yds. Bullet entered the rear of left hindquarter, angling forward, hit femur and shattered it just below hip joint, angled upwards somehow missing the rumen, hit bottom of spine, clipped top lobe of the liver, angling down slightly, clipped shoulder blade, and exited front of right front shoulder. Needless to say, doe never knew what hit her and was DRT. I'm NOT a fan of the Texas heart shot, but the performance of that .277, 150gr Hot Cor was exemplary. We pretty carefully autopsied that doe and the bullet remained intact through all of that. The exit wound was about half-dollar sized.

Of all the Hot Cor bullets I've killed game with, I've been happy with the performance of every one of them. Not so, some of the other bullets I've used.

When was the last time you used a Hornady SST?

Just curious, as the SST (like the Nosler Ballistic Tips) had been "adjusted" over the years. In my experience more recent SSTs penetrate like Spire Point Interlocks. Can provide some statistics from a Texas hunt--partly a doe cull.

John, are you saying that Speer put Mag-tip bullets in GS boxes and GS's in Mag-tips boxes? I've never seen a box of Mag-Tips that I'm aware of. Not doubting you but I've never even seen a Mag-tip other than in the Speer manual.

As far as the amber boxes, the ones I have left are labeled GS. 30 cal. 180 and 165's. Whether that's what they are I'm not betting my life on it. They sure shoot and kill good for me though.
Have a good day.

I did not know all these details on the evolution of GS bullets. My observation when clients used them on elk in the 90’s and early 2000’s was they penetrated very well, and performed similar to a Partition.

When I tried the 150g GS’s in my 270’s twenty years ago I couldn’t get them to group very well and gave up because I had other elk worthy loads that were more accurate.

Just received some 130 gr Hot Cors and 2 boxes of 130 gr GS .270 bullets. Grafs in MO. has them now well-priced.

O'Connor had good luck with them decades ago-on all deer: the small Coues AZ deer and Muleys. I still use Partitions and Swifts on elk or moose-bear.
The 338-06 in a pre-64 M-70 for anything that really is big in Alaska...or a pre-war Model 71 in 450 Alaskan. Bear spray is overrated and requires a backup...

No, that's not what I said.

Instead Speer started changing the construction of Grand Slams until they were basically Mag-Tips. The original Grand Slams had a two-part core, with a harder rear end. This supposedly made them expand more like Nosler Partitions. But the jacket wasn't thick enough to support the cores, and they didn't work very well. Soon Speer changed the jacket, to something resembling the Hornady Interlock's jacket, with an internal ring inside the jacket between the harder rear core and softer front core. Those worked very well--much like Nosler Partitions.

But then they started cheapening the Grand Slams, to the point where the harder rear core disappeared, and the "ring" inside the jackets became smaller. At that point they did resemble the basic Mag-Tip design--but weren't as tough. I proved this to my saisfaction by shooting some 200-grain .30 Grand Slams, started at 3000 fps from a .300 Winchester Magnum, into a stack of dry newspaper--my standard "tough" test for big-game bullets. (How I came to use dry newspaper is explained in a long chapter in one of my Gun Gack books.)

None of the three bullets penetrated as deeply as 200 Nosler Partitions--and one of them separated jacket and core. And yes, those came in amber boxes.

Ok thank you for the clarification.
I'm going to section some of the "old" ones I have for a look see.

I shoot 180 grand slams in my 300 Weatherby and they kill deer like turning off a light switch.

The only dual core Grand Slams found are Speer factory loads.

They differ externally from the current production "mag-tip" GS in that they have a crimping groove above the cannelure.




GR

It's been about 10 years since I last used a .277", 150gr Hornady SST, and these were on large northern Missouri whitetails (300+ pounds), and were in my .270 Win handloads. Broadside shots were fine, but with quartering shots when bone other than ribs were encountered, they squashed like bugs on a windshield and didn't penetrate very much. Never lost a deer because of them, but had a few incidents where follow-up shots and/or tracking was required.

When the .308", 150gr SST's came out, they were horrible. The first three deer I shot with them, all broadside shots, the SST's failed to penetrate the ribcage. I got lucky and managed to track them down and anchor all three with follow-up shots. I shot up the rest of that box for target practice. Haven't bought any more of them.

I tried some of the .338", 200gr SST's in my .338 RCM on big Missouri deer and found that those are plenty heavily built. In fact, on broadside shots they didn't expand as much as I like, but the deer were DRT in 35 yds or less. I anchored a big buck that our neighbor had wounded (he shot it in the butt with a .243). I got a fleeting, quartering away shot at it as it crossed the end of one of my shooting lanes in a creek bottom, headed into a multi-flora rose and briar hell. I caught it just behind the last rib on left side. Bullet angled forward, shattering off-side front shoulder and exiting. Deer plowed its nose into the ground, DRT. I wouldn't hesitate to use that bullet and load on elk or bear.

I used some Mag Tips in my 30-06 and really had nothing but complete penetration and dead animals. Seemed a bit deeper penetrating than the same size standard Hotcor but not shaped very well.