I bought a Rem. 700 Classic this past spring in this chambering. The rifle has a 24 inch barrel, and shoots very well after I beded it. In working up hand loads, I`ve been impressed with the results, and wondered if anyone else has simular experiences. In particular, with 150 grn bullets, using TAC powder, reaching close to 3k and with 4064 and 180`s, close to 2900 fps. None of the usual high pressure indicators present in either load.
Comments or added results?

Thanks

My experience with the 8x57 and 8mm-06/8mm-06 Imp. has all been with military mausers,and it's all been uniformly very good.
I've found that the military barrels,assuming they are in good shape and the actions are properly bedded,shoot very well.
I have found that it is possible to safely go over the loading manual maximums,which are set intentionally low due to all the old warn out mausers around.
125 gr. bullets , if you can find them,can shoot accurately enough to be considered serious woodchuck loads.Most 150's do well,especially the old Hornady RNs,again if you can find some.
You'll find that the European factory stuff is loaded considerably hotter than the domestic ammo.The Privi Partizan 196 gr. loads are usually very accurate,and very effective on game.
My experience has been mostly with IMR 4350 and 4895 but my loading logs are packed away from a move several years ago.As stated above,if you are careful in your reloading,you are likely to find you can safely exceed the manuals and achieve some pretty surprising and pleasing results with all bullet weights up to around 200 gr.

Try the Remington factory 170-gr CoreLokt ammo, which is slightly undersized and lower pressure for the older 8x57s.
I shoot it in my 1888 Mauser. It is all you need for deer and hogs inside 200 yards, and a pleasure to shoot.

Steve...I`ve an 8mm06 AI also on a 1909 Argintine,love it.
The 8x57 tho did pleasantly surprise me. Working the cartridge/rifle up to it`s potential was fun, and showed the 8 to be no slouch!
I`ve been expecting folks to suggest I`m way over pressure in arriving at these velocities, but again, no adverse pressure signs.

One of the 8-57's that I am shooting now has a carbine barrel length and showed low velocity and very low pressure with its inital work up. Since then I have increased the powder charge to over book max. and the result has been excellent accuracy and still moderate pressure signs except that it has not been over the chrono since.

Mine has the typical 'mauser' throat and the bullets are seated way way out to a COL of 3.25" due to the action being too long with a 3.4" box. My load is the 180 Ballistic Tip over IMR 4064.

[quote=CGPAUL]Steve...I`ve an 8mm06 AI also on a 1909 Argintine,love it.

Clayton, what velocities do you get with the various bullet weights?

I had a customized (military) 8X57 mm 30 years ago and was very impressed with its performance. It us truly one of the most under-rated cartridges around, generally attibuted to the low pressure loadings offered by US manufacturers. The 8mm-06 should be even better, just as the 338-06 betters the 30-06.

4064 works very well in my .323 Mauser 98s.

Wayne

Sam....In the AI..4895 with 150`s, both Horn and Sierra, gives me over 3100FPS. Sierra 175`s are a bit over 3k. Again, this is with a 24 inch Douglas and is the 8mm-06AI. I`ve shot these loads for over 20 years, deer and Elk. I found the 150`s were excessivly destructive on deer, so went to the 175`s.

Sav.99...would be interested in a velocity read with 4064 and the 180`s. This was the load that really impressed me in my 700.
Nice looking rifle BTB.

How about you Wayne..any numbers? just for discussion?

I'm running 180gr TSX's at 2625 with 48gr of IMR-4064 from a 21" barrel.

From what I recall of the inital workup the velocity from the 20.5" bbl. I don't expect much variance from 2600-2700 fps. The charge has been worked up to over 48 grs but as I mentioned the seating depth or COL is 3.25".

I have some Rem 185 on the bench I hope to test this wkend, loaded with 50 grns. of 4064. COL is 3.125. I use a drop tube to keep the charge at neck/ shoulder junction so the powder is not compressed too much. This combination produces some nice 100 ydr groups, at round 2850fps.
I don`t think I would feel under-gunned for elk.

The usual pressure signs don't kick in until about 70 KPSI. If you are content with that, then you are alright.

I had an 8x57 which I instrumented. At safe pressure, I was never able to exceed about 2750 FPS with a 180 grain bullet.

Have you tried the 195g Hornady or 200g Partition. Both are very accurate in my IMP with the 195g a real tackdriver.

My wife fed me with Elk for several years with the 8MM Mauser with Remington 170(Memory?) bullets.Her favorite rifle.I had her switch to my .270 but she does not like it.

Like the 30-40 Krag,the 8mm puts 'em down if you do your part.Way to much is put into Velocity/Energy and ballistics rather than shot placement and knowing your rifle and it's limits.

Jayco

Sam...no, I have not tried 195`s in my AI. I have shot the 200 Part.with good results.
The 50grn 4064 load I shot today I got out of Ackleys Vol.I handbook. He suggesed max to be 52 grns with the 180 at about 2795. No info on the gun used to develope this load. Working up to Ackleys listing in my rifle showed presure with 180`s at 51 grns. My velocity here exceeded Ackleys max listing.
Today at the range, I shot Horn.150`s and the Rem 185`s at 300 yrds.Both print at same POI at 100yrds. I came up 4 min.and both printed the same POI at 300.
I`m still impressed with this old cartridge...tho in a modern firearm. It`s nice to know many? elk have fallen to it.

Steelhead...I`ve not tried them, TSX`s. How did they shoot...problems?

Been shooting 150gr Speers and Sierras over IMR 4064 in my 8x57 M98s for many years. Most loads are in the 48gr to 49gr range with that bullet weight and they've worked very well on whitetails here in PA.

Ever since I discovered how accurate and deadly the Hornady 125gr bullet was in my 20" barreled M98, that's all I shoot in it now, for deer. About 52 grains of 4064 works pretty well for that one. R-P brass, CCI 200 primers in all.

Was mighty tempted to buy a new M700 Classic a year or so ago when one of the local distributors has them on close out for around $400. Then I figured I didn't really need another 8x57.

I use Hornady 195gr. and Rem. 185 gr. Core Lokt. RL-15 Powder and Fed. Gold Medal Match Primers. Works good for Me. Mauser 98 Sporterized.

CGPAUL,
I have the same rifle. I've never used TAC powder but my favorite load has been the 180gr TSX in front of 49gr of Varget. This produced 2755 fps and 1.25" groups. This is fast becomming my favorite rifle.

CGPAUL,

I also have a Rem 700 Classic in 8x57JS. A 180 gr at 2900 fps seems a little hot to me. I haven't done any load development with bullets lighter than 195 grs, though. I use the following table as a guideline when working up loads as to about what velocities can reasonably be expected with various bullet weights in the 8x57.



I chronographed some of the S&B 196 gr SPCE factory ammo from my rifle and the instrumental average velocity was 2647 fps. (Factory spec is 2592 fps as shown in the table.) Extreme spread was 31 fps with a stand deviation of 10 fps.

Back in 2005, I used a 220 gr Woodleigh RN in my 8x57 at 2400 fps (chrono average 2402) on a couple of Warthog and Impala in South Africa. It worked like a charm. I did most of my hunting with my CZ 550 in 9.3x62 on that trip but took along my Rem 700 in 8x57 as a backup rifle.


Warthog - Rem 700 Classic in 8x57
The 220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2400 fps knocks the snot out of Warthogs!
(He went about 10 yards after my shot and this is the position we found him in.)


Here's an article that you may enjoy:
Remington's 8x57 Classic
by Layne Simpson
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/classic_062804/

And some 8x57JS load data:
http://www.realguns.com/loads/8x57mmjs.htm

The 8x57 has become one of my favorite cartridges.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Denton
I had the same results. 2675 fps with a 200 grainer is about 72000 for me. 2600 is the low 60's, a fine critter killin' load
Charlie

It's all that, and a bag of chocolates.

Anyone use & like the Speer 170s?

I don't know about 170s, however, 50-51g IMR4064 and a 150g Speer Spire point is ~2900fps. This load closely duplicates the original military specs for the 154g 8mm of WWII. The only thing I wonder about, and haven't checked, is the twist rate of the Remington 700 vs the k98k.

I think the 8x57 is underrated.

Good luck.

June 6th, the WWll German infantry loading was a 198gr Schwerer Spitzgeschoss-HEAVY pointed bullet. The WWl loading in the GEW 98 with the 29" barrel was the 154gr at 2900fps. Murderous at range and penetrated cover distressingly well.

Bob..thanks for the interesting articles..
This rifle is going with me to Wy. in a few weeks. Hope to get either deer and/or goats.
I had fun working up various loads in this rifle...and the thing I really like, should I convert to 8mmAI, Remington has given me more that enough room in bolt throw and mag. length to best utilize longer bullets in the 06 case!
It`s also interesting to note the differences in rifles by the experiences of othere in load developement. I`m not a hot-roder, but due think one should get the most out of "load developement" for their particular gun.

This is one thread that I found real interesting. I became a fan of the 8x57 when I started handloading for one. Ten years ago I picked up a K98 as part of a trade at a gun show. It's one of the German built ones that were rebuilt in Yugoslavia after the war, ( see page 128 of "Mauser Bolt Rifles", by Ludwig Olson). and they also ground all the original German markings off. But at least they did a nice rebarrel job on it. The thing absolutely loves Sierra 8mm 150 gr. spitzers (Sierra #2400) in front of 53 grains of H-380 for about 2697 fps average from a 23 inch barrel. That should be a safe load in any sound 98 action as my old Sierra manual (the 50th anniversary manual) lists 55.1 grains as max with that combo. Good luck with yours in Wy. in a few weeks. I was out there last October but I was either totin' my 25-06 or my 300 WSM. The 8x57 should do O.K. with decent handloads as the factory hunting ammo ain't worth squat 'cause they don't load it to anywhere near what that cartridge is capable of, probly cause of product liability concerns with some of the older worn out junk that some people shoot.

Sorry, just seeing this. Nope, no problems and they shot just fine.

I've posted this before. I did some wet newspaper testing before I went on a Red Stag Hunt to Argentina. I was useing a 8x57 196gr. S&B SPCE and a 300 Win.Mag. Fed. High Energy 180gr. Nosler Part..
The Partitions penetrated further but all had spewed Their core.
The S&B's were not much farther behind The Partitions, and seemed to hold together pretty well. One had a mushroom about the size of a large Quarter - Very Impressive. Needles to Say, I ended up taking The 300. Just couldn't stand the thought of My cherished Mauser getting Lost.

Yes, I`m very satisfied with the way this rifle/cartridge performs with 150 Hornadys at 300yrds. Will you believe me when I say MOA. So, I`m hoping for a shot or two.
I also tried Rem 185`s at three. Both bullets print same POI. I would love this combo for elk, but may have to wait a year or so.

Steelhead...any excessive fouling? or has that problem been lessened with the TSX`s? I think bullets in this weight range are perfect for the 8x57. Proved that to my satisfaction last wkend at the range with the 185 Rem`s. I`m going with 150`s because I`ve got a bunch already loaded.

Nope, but of course I'm kinda biased on Barnes bullets. Use them in damn near everything I shoot.

150 gr. Hornady interlocks (Hornady #3232)are another bullet that my barrel likes. I've had good results with it using various amounts of IMR-4064. Those and the previously mentioned 150 gr. Sierras are the only 150 grainers that I use now. Some of the heavier bullets are accurate but at longer range they don't shoot as flat as the 150's. For deer or antelope the 150's should be the ticket as a good 150 grain bullet in the right spot will work on critters like that. This year I put a Leupold scout scope in an S&K no gunsmithing mount on the old K98 so now I got an 8x57 "scout rifle". This fall I hope to whack a whitetail with one of those 150's. Now that more of the southern tier counties in western NY state are open for rifles maybe I'll get a chance.

I`m going to try the TSX`s. I`ve shot Barnes befor, just never got attached..
The Hornady 150`s turn a gallon milk jug filled with water inside out at 300. Just a few more days!!
I`m taking my 250AI as a back-up.

I recently scoped one of the Remington 700 8x57 that I bought a while back. The only load I've tried so far is 150gr Hornady SP/IMR4064/WLR/R-P cases, my standard load for my other (mil-surp) 8x57 rifles. I went up to the book max of 51.0gr. with out problems, all the groups under two inches. For the other rifles I load 49.5gr., which shot better than the other charge weights in this rifle. 0-5/8" three shot group from a bench @ 100yds. 0.5 gr. up and down shot 1-5/16" three shot group from bench @ 100 yds. I haven't wrung it out yet to see if it will keep that up, just good inital results. This load ran 2790fps in the Remington, 2720fps in a Turkish with a 28" barrel, and 2660fps in a Yugoslavian with a 24" barrel. The best(not average)groups with this load were 1-1/8" @ 200yds from the Turk. I count on 1-1/2" @ 100yds for three shots with this load from the Turk with a Williams receiver sight and 1/16" brass flat face bead front sight.

Youper...your only bout 90 miles away.
Any reason for the velocity range in the three rifles? Maybe cause the military guns have been shot a bit?
I pulled the pressure point out of my Rem stock..and glass bedded..helped with accuracy.
My load with 4064 is used with the 185 Rem bullet. I found TAC powder to give excellent results with 150`s both accurate and close to 3k MV. I went over published Max load with the TAC. No problems in the Remington rifle. No doubt these Max loadings are held in check because of the bore size difference in older military arms.

I had the 8-57 ZB Brno over the chrono again last week with an increased load of 4064. I am not posting the grains as this rifle seems to take lots of powder yet still gives low velocities barely breaking 2600 fps with 180 Ballistic Tips. The barrel is 20.5".

I tried RL-15 with less accuracy and similar velocities.

Now its loaded up with RL-10 which is a little faster than IMR's 3031. Accuracy is still good and now the primers are no longer round. The chrono was not along for this last test.

When I tried 150's early on in this particular rifle the accuracy was only fair. Thus the 180's.

CGPAUL: You are almost certainly in the UP then, because it is difficult to be 90 miles from me and not be there. As far as the velocity goes, the mauser bores are a bit worn but also the lands on the mauser barrels are wider than the remington. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Today I went to the range for a more rigorus test of the load and the two rifles. The weather was overcast with temperatures in the mid 50s and twenty to thirty mile per hour winds straight from the target. I shot five groups of five shots each from the bench at 100yds. I would shoot one group with each rifle waiting to a count of 60 between shots then check the targets while the barrels cooled. The remington has a weaver k4 scope on it, and the mauser sights were described in my previous post. For targets I used lavender colored 3" sqaure postit notes on white paper. They contrast pretty well against the white paper, and against the black reticle. With the remington I aimed at the bottom left corner of a postit. With the mauser I put the top of the bead in the center bottom edge of the postit. The target was too small to see well with the metalic sights, and was much better suited to the scope. The groups from the remington averaged 1.9", and those from the Turkish mauser 2.4".

I found the variation of the point of impact of the groups shot from the mauser intersting. The remington ranged from 2-1/4" high to 3" high, and from 0-1/2" right to 0-1/2" left. The mauser ranged from 0-3/4" left to 0" left/right, and the elevation from 2" high to 5" high. Clearly the target provided better aiming regarding the windage than the elevation, because the metalic sights had a little less windage variation. A bigger target might have tightened up the variation in the elevation, but also this may show an elevation problem using a bead type front sight. I say may because I recently completed some tests with a Lee-Enfield with a blade front sight. The point of impact of these groups also showed more variation in elevation than windage, so there is likely a shooting technique problem.

Ok here is my help with 8x57.

Specifics are WWSuper brass trimmed to 2.238
CCI 200 primers
IMR 4350 50gr
200gr Speer Hotcor
OAL 3.070

The one shot at 100 yds was with a clean barrel, the remaining 4 shots at 200 yds were soon afterwards.

I just finished shooting this yesterday.

Youper...I live in Niagara...born and raised in Norway.
Anyway..just back from Wy. deer and lope hunt..was lots of fun. We took five deer and a goat. Wyoming F&G was selling left-over tags at $29.00. We, son, brother-in-law, and I each bought one.
I got my buck first afternoon in a draw, he was coming stright down the thing to me. I was on the rim laying down, the rifle rested on a bi-pod. I hit him a bit high in the back..needless to say he droped right there. Bullet penitrated into body cavity, was not recovered. The shot was about 75 yrds. My second deer, a flat-top I shot at a lazed 200 yrds. She was quartering towards me, I hit her right at the shoulder/neck junction. Dropped right now. I didn`t recover that bullet either. (these were 150 Horns). I missed a shot at 352 lazed yards...operator error...I put on a minute more elevation than I needed. Windage, and we had wind, was dead on, shot right over her. the bullet hit the boulder she was bedded by and left a big white spot. Goats were scarce on the ranch we hunted, my son took a doe with his 8mmx300WSM, and goats and deer carried no fat. The buck I shot was aged by F&G at 3 1/2 yrs, was a fork horn still in velvet. F&G said that was because of poor forage caused by the prolonged drought. All in all tho, a fun trip, and the 8x57 performed flawlessly.

CGPaul: Thanks for the update on your Wy. hunt. I was wonderin how the 8x57 would work out there. Glad to hear the 8x57 performed flawlessly, and I still got a bunch of 150 gr. Hornady's waitin to be loaded, and it's nice to hear that you were satisfied with them as well. I'm gonna feel a little more confident this fall if I get my 8x57 aimed at a whitetail

22250, Thanks...TAC powder and the Hornadys proved a great combination.

Sounds like a combination worth a try. Today I discovered that 150 Hornadys also work real well with IMR-3031. The 8x57 cartridge seems to like powder that's a little faster than what I would have guessed I'd wind up using in it. Runnin 47.7 gr. of 3031 behind one of those Hornadys in carefully prepped brass with a Fed. GM-210M primer. It's half a grain below max in my Hornady 6th edition manual, Copyright 2003. I couldn't believe the 100 yd. groups I was gettin with an old military bolt gun. Too bad I didn't have the chrony with me today. Made up 20 more rounds tonight in some brass I had all prepped and primed and ready to go. Gonna punch some more paper with it plus get some velocity readings. I might just have a new go-to hunting load. Still wanna try some TAC, though. Next thing you know I'll be lookin around for one of those model 700's in 8x57. The more I play with this cartridge the more I like it. I don't even worry about brass. Got a Redding form and trim die so's 8x57 brass can be formed from 30-06 brass if need be. In fact, that's the brass I was using today.

22250....I`ve not gotten to 3031 yet. I worked up my load with TAC using the crony and watching for excessive pressure. Reached 3k with no problems with 150`s. If I remember correctly..always a problem..the original German military load with 150`s produced a velocity in the 2900fps. area with Mauser`s most famous creation...I should have just said "98".
I really like the 700 classic...and form much of my brass the same as you. Did buy 100 pieces from Rem. for this project tho...getting lazy in my old age.
And as you, I really like this cartridge, will use it during the Wi. deer season. Might just load some 185 Rems...just for fun.

If a 150 30-06 is good for deer, the 150 in 8mm must be better!

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