These used to be recommended, when magnums were scarce and the .300 and .338 Winchester had not been invented, for heavy game like brown bear and moose in the 30-06 and even the 30-40.

220 grain bullets were one reason the 30-06 was said to be superior to the .308 Winchester. Barnes even made a 250 grain bullet for handloaders.

Now it seems that the heaviest .30 caliber bullets anyone talks about are the 200 grainers. A similar thing has happened with other calibers. When the .338 was new, people talked about 275 and 300 grain bullets for it. Now you tend to read about 210 and 225 grain bullets in .338.

Is the reason for this that bullets have been so much improved that 180 grain and even 165 grain bullets penetrate deeply enough?

imo two reasons - first, most people look for speed and the 220 is too slow for their taste. second - with the many great 180gr and 165gr bullets available, most folks see no need for a 220gr. just one mans opinion.

Too much idiotic insistence on maximum muzzle velocities and stupidly ignoring impact force.

Just because an idea is popular doesn't make it correct. In the 50's the 348 Win and '06 with 220 grain bullets were about the only things Western Montana Griz hunters used. I still find the 200 grain Partition is perfect for my uses out to 300 yards, and I'd need a GOOD rest to hold tighter than it's trajectory.

Wayne

A number of years ago, one of my hunting partners decided to hunt with something a bit different, so he loaded some old Winchester 220 gr. Silvertip bullets in his 30-06 for elk hunting. He had something like a 100 yd. opportunity on a bull that face facing him head-on, and at the shot, that elk dropped where it stood, and the 220 Silvertip went clear though that bull, stem to stern. I helped field dress that elk, and I can certain vouch for the effectiveness of that anitquated load.

If I ever decide, for the fun and education of it, to go with 220s in the '06 for any of my own hunting, I'll try the 220 gr. Nosler Partition first.

Now, do I think that 220 gr. bullets are necessary for any of the hunting I'd undertake with a 30-06?

No. Modern 180s and 200s will do it all in my opinion. In the old days, before the advent of much better-built hunting bullets, those 220s were used far more widely than they are now. Quality bullet construction has made them sort of obsolete, and when you really need or want a big, heavy bullet to do a big, heavy job, there are far more great medium-bore rifles available today then there were back in the days when you had the choice of a 270, 30-06, 300 Savage, 30-30, 7mm Mauser, 35 Remington in the form of a factory hunting rifle. Plus most guys back then had just one big game rifle for all purposes, and the 30-06 largely ruled the roost.

For my own purposes, today I'd rather just take a 338 Win. Mag. loaded with premium 225s or 250s rather than load 220s in the 30-06........

AD

With present company a notable exception, many gun writers today don't even know about the concepts of knock down power, "thump","wallop",retained momentum, projectile frontal area and whatever your granddad called it. The thing that sells, today, is "paper energy".

Wayne

I was a wee young lad when Dad was going to Canada for moose. I can remember him sighting in his Mauser '06 with those big old 220 grain Bunker Busters. Dad took a decent bull in '69 on one of his guided trips. The guide didn't even think he hit it, but Dad was certain he did-and the old man just didn't miss very often. The bull never flinched at the shot, and just trotted off indignantly. He went about 200 yardcs-the shot was true, right through the boiler room. Dad said the big bull never gave any outward sign of being hit.

The "outward sign of being hit" is when all four feet do a slow roll over the bushes. Happens right soon, too.

I can't remember who it was (Ken probably does) but one old-time writer used to call those 220s "Blue-nosed Whistlers" due to the generous gob of lead exposed at the tip - and the sound all the air made whistling through whatever you shot with them. You know what? He was right.

It is also true that bullets were nowhere near as well made then as even ditchwater-common cup and core slugs of today. The only way to get absolutely reliable performance was to hit things with a LOT of mass. There was very likely a strong carryover from blackpowder days, too. Remember, that was the era in which the .30-40 Krag was THE hot magnum of its day; it's most common bullet was a 220 roundnose.

Also overlooked is the fact that while the 220s kill like lightning, they also tend to blood-shoot a lot less good eatin' meat, without ceding impact to the lighter, faster, more ruinous bullets.

I'll never be able again to hunt anything bigger than a called-in coyote � if I did, I'd opt generally for the heaviest good bullet that I could get for any big-game cartridge � especially if I wanted a maximum of meat in the freezer and a minimum in the dump.

I believe EK called it the Peter's Blue Nose? Anyway, you simply cannot make a boat-tail, plastic tipped 220gr. 30 cal that will stabilize in most 30 cal 1-10/1-12 twist barrels, nor can you get 3,000+ fps, even in magnums, and everyone knows you need a premium, $1-2 apiece bullet with high energy figures to kill anything. Those bullets are obsolete, and we are much smarter and better hunters than our forefathers! In order to kill its meat damage, not holes through vital organs, that kill.

I have used 220 grain bullets from Hornady, Sierra, and Winchester in my 308 Norma Mag. They work real well and all are VERY accurate. In fact, no other bullet I've tried equals the 220 Sierras for accuracy out to 300 meters. At a MV of 2775, they shoot flat enough too.
I've shot deer and elk with the 220 Hornady out of the 30/40 Krag (MV 2335. Not a Krag rifle) and it works great. I will say, deer drop faster when I use a 150 in the same rifle but the 220s will penetrate no matter what angle and the deer will die.
I have an original box of Winchester Lubaloy 220's (for thin skinned game, it says on the box)in 30/40 Krag. I 've thought I should use these and my Krag carbine on a deer this year just to see if they will still take our modern animals. GD

The .30 caliber 220 gr bullets have gone out of favor??? When did this happen??

Just for the nostalgia and to do it the old fashioned way, I used the 220 gr Woodleigh round nose in my .30-06 on a plains game hunt in South Africa back in 2002. Handload velocity was 2460 fps. The rifle is a Ruger M77 MkII with a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5x 20mm scope.

Well guess what?.... Those 220 gr bullets worked just fine.







And if you think those 220 gr bullets in the .30-06 are going too slow to do any real damage here's a photo of that Warthog's heart back at the skinning shed:




And, I guess contrary to conventional wisdom, those 220 gr Woodleighs also worked just fine even on the smaller animals:







Actually, for hunting in the bushveld where shooting distances are not that far, I think you can do a whole lot worse than choose a heavy (high sectional density) round nose bullet at around 2400 fps. I've also used the 8x57JS with a 220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2400 fps and the 9.3x62 with a 286 gr Woodleigh RN at 2390 fps for hunting plains game in the bushveld. They all worked just fine. Besides, it's kind of fun being a little old fashioned!

Cheers!
-Bob F. [img]http://www.bunduki.com/bob/emoticons/beer2.gif[/img]

Cool pics, Bob!
I don't even have an ought six, but when I see these kind of pictures, makes me want to pack up my 9.3 CZ and fly to Africa...

Now, let's see.... where did I leave those two boxes of Woodleigh 240 gr bullets I've been meaning to try out???



Link to a pdf file describing the Woodleigh 240 gr bullet.

Woodleigh's web site:
http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

Cheers!
-Bob F.

If the supply is short then blame me as I have never bought any. Well maybe I shot some old loads out of the Krag I had.

Harald at "Blowing Holes in Wounding Theories" was talking about trying 220's. I did not follow up on it as, to me, the bullet gives up too much in recoil, trajectory and drift.

I use them because when I went to the local gunshop they had several boxes for sale at $5.00 per box. I bought them all.

I don't know what happened to everyne else's 220 grain bullets but I shot the majority of mine -- although I still enough boxes left to finish out my career. I think Nosler still makes Partitions in that weight and they are superb game killers.

I know that second-hand recommendations don't carry a lot of weight around here. But, if I may, I'd like to tell you a bit about my Dad.

He was born in 1905, (and died in 1995) he came to BC (out of the prairies) late in his teen years looking for work and he found it logging in BC's wildest places. His love of the real wilderness saw him making his living with a "portable saw mill" he put together. He travelled all over BC with that thing.

He hunted a lot, for sport and sustenance. He shot bears when he thought they were giving him "attitude", as well as when he needed meat, fat or thought he could use a good pelt. He said he shot "about 20" grizzlies in his life - and many many more black bears.

His preferred bear caliber was the 30-06, his preferred rifle (late in his life) was the Remington 760 pump "with extra clips in his pocket" - "just in case", and his preferred bullet for bears - the roundnose 220's.

He said that load "just flattened them", and he could never understand the desire of others for a bigger rifle in bear country.

I saw him shoot his last two grizzlies - same story - bang - flop.

No adventure, no dramatics - just like he said was always the case - "when you hit 'em where you're supposed to - with a good bullet".

Readers aspiring to accomplishments as great as those that contemporary writers write about remind me of something that Peter Ustinov quoted from one of his instructors at Sandhurst:

"Mister ______ sets for himself abominably low standards which he unfortunately fails to meet."

I started using them when trying to get my Winchester 1895 (30-40 Krag) to shoot. The lighter bullets weren't doing well in the accuracy department so I went with the original loading of a 220 gr roundnose at 2250-2300 FPS and the groups shrank in half. Deadly on mule deer and will be chasing elk with one in the future. Haven't tried them in a 30-06 but thinking about it. Have a Husqvarna that needs to make meat and that might be the ticket. Ryan

Great, I had just decided to use my 257 bob with 100 grn tsx for PA black bear, but the idea of going back in history and using my old '06 loaded with a 220 sierra sounds fun. Not to mention a lot cheaper than the tsx. The '06 even has a Lyman 57 aperture on it.
Talk about extremes but I feel just as confident with either to 200 yards on black bear, although up close and personal a 220 would feel better
I guess I'll decide that day what to carry.

I found a hundred of these a while back. I'm going to load them for my Grandfathers Winchester 95 in 30-40 Krag.

Doc

I'm looking forward to thumping something next weekend with a .30cal 130gr Barnes.

Way back, probably in the '50's, I read a Jack O'C article in which he suggested if someone wanted an accurate load to try 220 grain bullets in the 30/06 with 51 grains of I4350.
Two or three years ago I decided to buy a box of 220 gr. Hornady's. I started at 51 grains of I4350 and went up a grain at a time to 54 grains. The 51 grain load was way, way under 1" at 100 yards. Even the worst of these loads shot no worse than 1 1/4" in my Remington 700. Amazing that some observations even though 50 or more years old are still valid.

Jim,

"Way, way under an inch?" How much under an inch can you get until it start coming up with a negative number? Just joshing with you buddy.

There ya go! I was wondering when somebody would bring up the 240 grain bullets.

Remembering the story of Jim Bridger trying to shoot the glass mountain elk. For some reason I'm thinking he was shooting something like -2.7 MOA. Little known today is the fact that he used a B-29 AI.

Shootist - I just went and reviewed my shooting notes. They tell me the first time I shot the 220's conditions were ideal - late afternoon, perfect light and no wind.
The first 3 shot group with a 51 gr. charge went into .122", and yes, that decimal point is in the right place!
The other loads up to 54 grains opened the groups up gradually to a max of about 1 1/8". Since that time under less optimum conditions the 51 gr. load usually shoots between 5/8" and 3/4".
Switching topics, when we went moose hunting this fall the water level was about 3' higher than last year. There were virtually no margins around the water to look for tracks of moose moving along the shores.
One of our party took a 42" bull with nice palms. Another guy, while fishing in the early afternoon, trolled near the shore and came up on another bull he said looked like a twin of the one we took. No other bull tags so all he could do was admire him!

On another day my son-in-law called in a back meadow until noon. He came out for lunch and when he went back found moose tracks on top of his own apparently made while he was having lunch.

For my extended family WWII was the reason that the 220 grain load was replaced by the 180 grain in the '06. My grandfather continued to use the 220 gr bullet in his .30-40 Krag carbine, but all of his sons in law were definitely fans of lighter bullets after their wartime experiences. We grandsons were the beneficiaries of their move to the .300 Savage and the various flavors of '06 after the war. One of my uncles did choose the .300 H&H, but also used the 180s. My family all were handloaders too, and shot a lot of lead bullet practice loads as well.

jim

Reading O'Connor was exactly the reason I decided to try IMR-4350 with the Woodleigh 220 gr bullets when I was working up a load. I settled on 52.0 grs of IMR-4350 for a chrono average velocity of 2460 fps. The best 5-shot group I've fired with this load went right at 7/8". Most of the time it runs about 1.25" but I don't claim to be the best rifle shot around by any means.

-Bob F.

Bob,
If you have the powders to try, load some 760 behind that 220 Woodleigh. I have tried it in several rifles and it is common to get around .5 MOA with 3 shot groups using 57 grains for 2600fps. The same load with h 4350 gets 2550 fps in my 22 inch Featherweight.

I am thinking about a black bear hunt and this would be a good load for them.

AGW

OntarioJim,

Congrats on the successful hunt. No tags and a pile of ilness on my wife's side of the family have kept me out of the field this season so far. May hit it a little harder once the snow flies.

Was just joshing you on the groups. That is good shooting. The best group I have with my '06 is three shots in 0.29" and that was with a 165 BTSP Hornady. It can happen -- even with hunting grade bullets. (That group, as most of my groups are shot off the hood of my truck at a gravel pit. I put a boat cushion down for padding. That day the wind was gusting and it was pretty sunny = not an ideal day.)

Aussie,

Thanks for the suggestions! I have some 760 and H4350 on hand. I'll have to try it. To be quite frank, and I'm not doubting you, but I'm a little leery of getting 2600 fps with a 220 gr bullet in the '06 from a 22" barrel. But, also, I've never tried it.

I've never tried increasing my IMR-4350 powder charge above 52.0 grs but I think 2500 fps should be easily obtainable. Since H4530 is a little slower burning, as you know, 2550 fps should be attainable without much sweat as you stated. I've just never done much load development (in any cartridge) with 760 so I'm not too familiar with it. Still, around 2500 fps with a 220 gr is no slouch. That turns up a little over 3,000 ft lb of energy which isn't too shabby.

I haven't been doing very much load work with my .30-06 in the last few years since my trip to South Africa back in 2002. I've been fooling around with other cartridges. But, I need to dust off the ol' .30-06 rifle and take her to the range. I'll have to try your load suggestions. (Reducing the powder charge and working back up, of course.)

I also want to try out those 240 gr Woodleighs! I don't have any hunts planned in the near future where I really need a 240 gr bullet in the .30-06 but I just want to try them out for the heck of it. I might have to try them out on some feral hogs just to see what they'll do.

Cheers!!
-Bob F.

I just picked up some Remington .30-06ammo on sale with the 220-gr RN CoreLokt for $12.98 with a $5.00 factory rebate per box = $7.98 for 20 rounds. Not bad.

I have been using Sierra' 220 gr Rn in my .06 for longer than probably 1/2 the people on this forum are old, and don't plan to chnage. They have killed more elk than the average elk hunbter will kill in his/her lifetime

I'm thinking that most of use that the 220 30's were put to use for have been suplanted by the 338 win mag, for better or for worse.

I wish I could get 275 gr rn 358's, they'd be perfection in my 350 Rigby. Yes, I know woodleigh has 310's, but woodleigh was iffy on whether a 1-14 would stablize them, and I'm too cheap to buy a box of bullets that might not fly straight.

I believe Swift makes an A-Frame 280 358; kind of a RN, but may or may not suit your needs.

I still use the 200 gr. and 220 gr. Woodleighs and Noslers in my 30-06 and 300 H&H..At 2600 FPS and 2700 FPS plus respectively, they work fine on everything.

I loaded up a couple of boxes of 220 gr. Woodleigh softs and solids for an older client of mine to take to Africa as that was his only gun...He shot Buffalo, elephant and all his plainsgame with them, when he got home he gave me back the ammo I loaded. Guess what? He shot EVERYTHING with the solids!! Didn't have any problems killing anything. His only comment was "I'll be darned"

I just got back from the range; one of the rifles is an old Remington 30S with a Unertl 4X Hawk scope shooting 54 gr. of AA3100 under some old Hornady 220 RN's. Not an ideal deer load but it is going deer hunting in Wisconsin this month. I just happened to have those bullets laying around and they just seemed to go with that vintage rifle and scope.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, in what country can you take dangerous game without running afoul of the .366/.375 minimum caliber rules? I wanted to take a hippo in Zim with my .35 Whelen, but the PH (rightly so) told me about the 'rules' and (again rightly so) wouldn't ignore them.

Yes, there is the northfork 270 gr and the swift 280 gr, but I'd like a conventional cup core rn 275 gr from hornady. The 250 rn performs well out of my 350 rigby, but 2700 fps is really a bit fast for that bullet, and I'd gladly trade 200 fps for 25 gr of bullet.

Lott, I wouldn't be surprised if Hornady would dust off their 275 dies for 358 bores if enough of us hounded them. They are listed in older resources. I have often though that bullet would be a good size to use.

As for 220s, they are still around though not real popular. Remington loads them. So does Federal (with a non-component Speer 220). Hornady makes a lot of RN bullets. Sierra has pulled the plug on most, but still makes the 30/220. In plain-jane cup and cores, I don't think one is likely to do better than Remington's nice skived and scalloped, heavy jacketed Core-Lokt. That thing rolls back into a a nice wide, round nushroom with plenty of shank mass behind it.

Sadly the 358 market just wouldn't justify such a run, thought it wouldn't hurt to make a suggestion or two.

I remember the 275 gr Hornady from many years ago. It was a great bullet in the 35 Whelen!



Let's give it a try!

I would take a thousand 275s. I know at least five guys with 35s here. How many hundred thousand would Hornady want ordered to do a run?

Ted

I just zeroed my new model Winchester 1895 SRC with 220 gr. Sierras and 53 grs. IMR4350 for 2400 fps. Three shots went into 2 inches using the brass blade front and a Williams FP rear. Hopefully I'll get a deer or two with that load in a couple of weeks.
The 220gr. RN just seemed to be a natural for this rifle.

Anybody ever compare wound channels between the 220gr. partition and the 200gr. partition?

I am curious to know whether the 220's extra weight and SD are offset at all with respect to penetration by having more lead exposed at the tip?
Thanks!

I've tried just that. One big bull in the dark stuff in Western Montana I hit in the rump going dead away at about 50 yards. The 200 grain Partition broke his hip, traversed the guts and lungs and exited the brisket between the front legs. I didn't recover that bullet but the penetration was awesome.

Wayne

Just my opinion, but ....

In order for a 220 gr. bullet to fit into a useful overall cartridge length and not intrude too much on the powder, it had to be a round nose bullet. This affects down-range ballistic performance since spitzers have higher retained velocity and lower trajectories.

Since many hunters want a sexy looking, low trajectory, higher velocity bullet, lower weight bullets are in vogue.

Also, before the advent of today's premium bullets, only a heavy weight, heavy construction bullets would give deep penetration with expansion. Today's premiuum bullets are lighter and hold together.

The great thing is the 220 will do it at 1/2 the price. Yea I know range, trajectory and all that but 250 yds takes care of 90% of my hunting. And yes I am working up a load with the tsx too but I like the idea and numbers of the 220.

If you need a heavy bullet for a range beyond 200 yards, go from the 220 RN to a 200-gr Sierra spitzer. Same result.