Mule Deer,

I was reading some posts on the Africa forum and saw a post you made that was something to the effect of one could probably hunt a lifetime and not see an appreciable difference between using a 7x57 and a .30-06 when using bullets of the same construction and comparable weight (I'm assuming you meant 160 gr 7mm vs. 165 gr 30 caliber and 175 gr 7mm vs. 180 gr 30 caliber).

I know 100 fps here or there does not matter much in hunting applications, but I was wondering what 7x57 velocities are typical for you with various 7mm bullet weights and how you came to decide on those velocities? (because in some loading manuals there is a very large difference between 7x57 velocities and .30--06 velocities for the same weight bullets). I'm guessing you are using "modern" pressure loads (perhaps ones comparable in either pressure or velocity to 7mm-08 loads?), and obviously the caveats that the loads are safe in your gun(s), etc. apply.

Also, what 7mm bullet weights do you typically use for different applications (pronghorn, deer, caribou, elk, African plains game, etc.)?

Thanks.

I have loaded bullets from 120 to 175 grain in the 7x57 for hunting over the years. They all work when pointed right, which is what I've found with hunting bullets in general. A case could be made for using, say, 120's on pronghorn or 175's on moose, but in the real world there isn't nearly as much difference as most people believe. Load a 120 and a 175 to maximum safe velocity (say 3000 fps and 2600 fps), sight them both in 2" high at 100 yards, and the difference in trajectory at 300 will be about 4 inches. If you know your load's trajectory, either will be effective.

But I have found that there is a signficant difference in wind droft between light and heavy bullets, which is not nearly as predictable as trajectory. So with many hunting rounds these days I tend to pick bullet weights somewhere in the middle.

Also, I like to use "standard" bullets, because they're cheaper, a lot of readers use them, and because there's no reason not to, if velocity is kept within certain parameters. Over the years I've found that at 2700 fps or so do, standard bullets hold together quite well on deer-sized game, and also shoot flat enough and retain enough velocity to expand all the way out to 400 yards.

So these days I am loading bullets in the 160-grain range in my Serengeti 7x57. The load I use with all of them is 46.0 grains of H4350, and muzzle velocity runs from 2650 to 2700, depending on the bullet. As a general load I use the 160 Sierra GameKing, which works great for sighting-in and deer-sized game. All the other loads shoot close enough to the Sierra so that if I decide to hunt wildebeest or moose or whatever, I can just put some rounds loaded with 156 Norma Oryxes or 160 North Forks in the rifle and go hunting.

So far this has worked fine. I haven't shot anything at 400 yards with the rifle, but have killed a couple of animals at 375 or so (with the Sierras). Have also taken wildebeest and moose with stouter bullets.

Nosler lists 46.0 grains IMR4350 as maximum with 160-grain bullets in their manual, and H4350 is generally slightly slower. I have not had any of my loads pressure-tested, but none show the slightest sign of high pressure, even in warm weather, and brass life is great. So I assume the pressures are OK in my rifle.

But maybe next year I'll go on a 120 or 150 or 175 kick. Who knows?

Just my two cents..... Excellent questions asked by Ramblin_Razorback and an excellent answer by Mule Deer.

I don't have a 7x57 but I do have a new .280 Rem, that I haven't tried working up handloads for yet, and this gives me some good ideas for my .280 Rem. (I'm talking about what bullet weights and types to try out; not about using 7x57 powder charges in my .280 Rem.)

Thanks for the posts!

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Don't forget there's 2 different factory pressure loadings in the 7 x 57. One, the lower one, is to prevent pressures of 50K or so in M 93 and M 95 Mausers and is noted as 7mm Mauser. The other, for 98 Mauser and other modern actions is noted as 7 x 57 Mauser or just 7 x 57. Makes a ton of difference which load you use.

Wayne

John,
FWIW - When I shot my first red stag with the 7x57, the 140 gn X bullet went through and dropped it on the spot. It immediately took me back to an article I read many years prior from J O'C when he shot a grizzly with a .30/06 and a 180gn Remington Bronze Point and recounted that he made up his mind right there, that if the 180 shot clear through grizzly, there was not point every going up in bullet weight.

Now these days we know that bullet construction is a far greater influence on penetration than bullet weight, but I came to the same conclusion with 140's in the 7x57 case after getting the same results on wild horses, even with lengthwise shots.

I do load heavier bullets and have killed smaller game that the aforementioned with those heavier bullets, but the reality is that little case is a dream to shoot and permits shot placement that permits effective kills out of proportion to the necessity, invented and perpetuated in the average rifleman's mind.

Having said that, I load two standard weights these days, 140 and 175. The 175's are loaded "because". We know what that means.

John

Now look at what you guys started, there will be a run on 7x57s. I would take the leap but I already did it once, it was a dandy short action model 70 with a shilen barrel. wish I had it back!

AGW:

What type of bullet was that 140 gr. bullet that dispatched that horse?

I had to kill one of my horses last year,the neighbor bought a mustang stud at an auction and it got in my pasture and broke one of my gelding's legs.

I killed him with what I had in the truck,which happened to feature a 140 grain bullet out of a 280. The balistic silvertip killed him like a lightning strike.

Britt

I had read recently in one of Mule Deers articles (It might be 2-3 months or 2-3 years old - I keep them and re-read them) about his preference for the 160 grains in the 7x75(275 Rigby)so I had planned on working up a load.

John - thanks for the starting point for the load. Would you say this would be OK for an old Model 98 Peruvian Mauser? Or do I need to watch pressures?

Just for kicks if a guy was buying a new gun in 7mm-08 or 7X57 which would you recommend?

I have used a lot of the 160 partitions in the 7x57 at 2750 fps or so for many, many years on all sorts of big game up to elk-kudu size with perfect results. This caliber is the low-recoil king of killing. I have one getting a new tube screwed onto a Mauser action as we speak, hope I wear out some more 7mm barrels. If I were buying a new 7-08, I'd have to try a Ruger Hawkeye, I believe. 7x57 would be a No. 1-A.

I inquired just this week to CZ about the chance that maybe some 7x57s were still available here in the states. All 15 that were left were sent to a dealer in Georgia, they are all gone. Guess I will have to look at a #1 unless Ruger chambers the Hawkeye in it next year.

Sorry wasn't clear, I meant which cartridge?

FWIW;

My factory 7x57 chambered Husqvarna rifles really like 150 gr bullets. Either the Norma factory load or a handload that a friend of mine made up using the Nosler 150 gr. Partition that is a little warmer than the Norma.

I think that barrel twist is very important factor in the 7x57. The same Husqvarna rifle that shoots .75" 3 shot groups with the Norma factory load will keyhole a 175 gr. bullet.

I would like to read what JB writes too. I have an intermediate length comercial Mauser action that is a .30-'06 just now, but I am about to convert it back to 7X57 (the cartridge it was designed for).

If I had a short action, I would say make it a 7-08 (i.e. 7X51). Intermediate or standard length action I would choose the 7X57.

Of course the 7X57 has it all over the 7-08 in terms of history and cachet.

jim

John,

Yeah, these days you don't need anything more than 140's in the 7x57, Along with the 140 TSX, Nosler will have a 140 E-Tip on the market soon, and there are dozens of other good ones as well.

But I had already gone through a 140-grain phase, and had a lot of newer bullets in the 160 range on the shelf that needed testing (156 Norma Oryx, 154 Hornady Interbond, 160 North Fork). Along with that, I like the way standard bullets work at 2700, and found that with my rifle sighted in with the Sierras, all the others would shoot close enough to work.

To everybody else,

I must emophasize that my 7x57 is on a strong, modern action, the "short" Montana 1999 action, which has a 3.1" magazine, just right for the 7x57. I certainly would not load it any hotter even so--and there is no reason, as the load used does the job. The load I am using is not a starting load, but a MAXIMUM.

I have already written many times about how I just don't bother with old Mauser military actions anymore. They are simply not as good as modern actions (either Mauser 98 or not) and the cost involved in making them into top-flight sporter actions is way too much. But if anybody is bound and determined to do so, I would take it to a real gunsmith to be checked out.

I sure hope Ruger brings the Hawkeye out in 7x57. Apparently they don't chamber it anymore in the 77 Mark II, which I regard as a very good rifle. I once owned one in 7x57 and it shot fine, and was about the right weight.

Ramblin_Razorback,

You really hit a soft spot by inquiring about the 7x57. But you specifically asked for a response from Mule Deer, so I waited patiently before barging in with my uninvited $.02. Mule Deer has replied now - not once, but twice - so here I am.

I, too, like the 7x57 with 160 grain jacketed bullets. I have worked with many other calibers that perform as well and kick harder, but none perform better.

Two bullets have performed admirably for me: Speer Hot-Cor spitzer and Speer Mag Tip. There really is no need to try other bullets, but I will anyway just for the experience (and in case I am missing something). These will eventually include the likes of 175 grain Hornadys and 140 grain TTSX.

I currently own 3 rifles chambered in 7x57, all Rugers: One M77R (tang safety), one M77 MkII, and one #1A. These are all superbly accurate rifles. The M77 MkII is one of the smoothest, most reliable and well-balanced rifles I have owned. It is definitely a favorite. I really like the tang-safe M77R and thought it near the top choice in my modest battery UNTIL I got the MkII. I only wish they had the excellent Ruger open sights. The #1A is...uh...well, you just have to own one to understand, I guess, and even then it doesn't really make sense. Repeaters are more efficient hunting tools than single-shots, but there's just something about them.

I stuff a couple more sniffs of H4350 into my 7x57s than Mule Deer. The tang-safe model will handle a bit heavier charge than the MkII, but I doubt the game will know the difference. If a guy can get 2650-2700 fips with a 160 grainer, like Mule Deer has said, then that guy is ready to kill a lot of game, and it won't rupture any blood vessels in his shoulder either (or detach any retinas). It will just drill a fair-sized wound channel deep into any animal, and if that wound is in the right place, the animal is quickly reduced to possession.

-

I love 7X57 posts. We have 3 of the little darlings. One of them is in the running for the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever seen. reflex264

I too love the 7x57. I'm currently on Lee Helgeland's waiting list for a custom G33/40. Waiting (somewhat) patiently.

My new custom M70 in 7X57 shipped today!! I can't wait to get it!

As a fellow left-hander, you can't just drop some half-assed hint like that without a more complete set of details.

When and where do we get to hear more about this? Who built it, what barrel, etc.?

About the only 7mm bullets I've used since I was 14 (60 now) are 139gr and 154gr Hornadys, both in my then new 7mm Wby and later in my 7X57s of various pedigrees from chopped up 93 mausers to fine combo guns.

I wanted to try something different in my well worn Husky, re-chambered to 7X57 AKL for antelope recently and brought out a box of low cost Speer 130gr FB HCs. I have whacked one speed-goat and two medium sized mulies with the bullet, and all went well. Still, I am a big fan of the 154-160gr range for the 7X57. Driven at meduim velocities, this weight in non-premium garden variety bullets works exceptionaly well with good expansion and penetration. The harder "premium" bullets are more for the 7 magnums, IMO, and don't expand sufficiently at average 7X57 velocities.

By the way...Mule Deer...I very much enjoyed the ten best guns article!

Without the 7x57mm I would not have an internet handle. I own a CZ 550 American in 7x57mm and with my handloads and the 162 gr. Hornady SSTs that rifle will spit three slugs into a nice little .481 inch cloverleaf at 100 yards. With the 160 grain Nosler Partition it opens up to just a tad more than a half inch. I use nothing but H414. I have owned 7x57s in Ruger configuration for years until 2001, when I bought my CZ. That combo has been excellent for elk, mule deer, whitetail deer, antelope, javelina, wild hogs, coyotes and even turkey in Texas. The way I figure it, if I cannot get it done with a 7x57mm, then I don't need to be doing it in the first place. Have a nice day folks. Tom Purdom

I second that emotion.

-

Horse(s) There wre several dozen taken with a range of rifles and bullet used.

It was the standard Barnes 140gn XBT. Muzzle Velocity was a little over 2900fps from my Rigby.

AGW

The 7x57 is a middle aged man's fetish. How old are you then make your choice.

AGW

My son came home recently after being asked by a local farmer to take out one of his cows that was tangled in an electric fence for a long period and was totally fubar.

He chose my Rigby 275 and some 175 grain Woodleigh Weldcores for the job. When he returned home he commented that for a little cartridge, it sure kills bigger animals easy.

Yes it does, my son.

AGW

For the one who asked.... I think that's reasoning for passing up on the light weight bullets. I would rather have drop than drift also.

I have a pet 7x57,built by Flaig's in the 1960s. I rescued it from a pawn shop in Meridian Mississippi. It looks for all the world like it was built for Eleanor O'Connor.

It has a very nice English walnut stock in the classic style with tasteful checkering,it is built on an Brno action and features a 2-7 Leupold in period Redfield mounts. I have not handloaded for it yet but it will put Hornady Light Mags and Norma factory stuff in neat little groups at 100 yards that run about an inch or a little better. It weighs about 8 pounds scoped and balances like a fine bird gun.

It is really pleasant to shoot,the man who ordered it and the people who built it both knew what they were doing. It shows signs of honnest use but no abuse and is fast becoming a favorite.

It really is quieter and more pleasant recoil wise than my 7mm-08s and 280s. I think this may be due to the lower presures and gas effect in the older cartridge.

It produces with these loads about the same velocity as the 7mm-08 but the larger case capacity must lower pressures enough that the 7x57 is more pleasant to shoot in guns of similar weight.

It's hard to beat a nice 7x57 for it's combination of user friendliness and effective killing on game.

Britt

Even elephants, too, apparently.

My mother just sent me a copy of any article from August 9th, 1935, from the Peru Tribune in Peru, IN. This is my hometown, and it was once the winter quarters for several national circuses. The article talked about the demise of a "mad bull" elephant named "Vance".



J. Omer was my Great Grandfather, and his rifle was a mauser in .275 Rigby. His house was filled with more than a dozen mounts of NA game animals. I figured he would've been really proud of having an elephant to his credit. Then again, he didn't exactly "stalk" it... and the taxidermists in small-town Indiana might not have known what to do with an elephant!

Someone should have told those hunters in Africa what a great elephant-killer the 7x57 was! (TIC!!!!)

FC

The builder is our own "Redneck" here at the campfire, this is the third lefty M70 he has built for me in 2007. I am a HUGE fan of his work! The rifle is a SS lefty M70 with a PacNor 3 groove in Winchester's fwt. profile. Lee trues up the action, reworks the safety (the smoothest I have ever had the pleasure to own) does a trigger job, chambers, crowns, bead blast etc. Lee worked with me and PTG to get the their match grade reamer throated to my specs.........

I have the McMillan Edge, Williams Obendorf 1 piece bottom metal, Williams extractor and Wisner magazine spring here waiting on it! Oh, and Talley lwt's and a 6X36 Leupy with the LR dublex.

I will post pics, review, etc. as soon as I get my grubby hands on it!

My brother used my 7x57 to take a nice 10pt buck this year. 139gr Hornady SPBT ahead of 50gr H4350. He was amazed at the mild report and recoil compared to his .270. The old girl does work.

Huntr,

You "owe" me a picture of the new build as well.

Doc

I have only had my 7x57 for 13 years. Built on one of those horrid M98 actions, barreled with a on sale Adams @ Bennet, triggered with a Bold and stocked in a Ramline plastic and scoped with a 4X widefield Redfield rebuilt by ABO. Oh yes also painted and slicked up by yours truly. Affectionatly called "Ugly" by yours truly this rifle has accomplished all tasks in all types of weather and is arguably the most useful rifle I have ever owned. I've used bullets that weigh from 139 grains to 175 grains and now generally use those in the 140-160 weight range, powders of choice are AA4350 and H414. It puts all these bullet weights close enough to poa that I can use them interchangably without resighting in. I can't pick out a favorite bullet because all have done just what I wanted, all shoot MOA or better (140-160 grain) and seemingly perform perfectly as I have recovered just on 160 grain Sierra and one 175 grain Hornady spire point, both of which negotiated many inches of spine. Originally concieved as a backup bad weather rifle Ugly has become the rifle the others have to follow in the lineup.

How could I forget!! grin

Merry Christmas to you!

....My 7X57 is a CZ550FS (mannlicher) I swapped (right here on forum) a Remington 788 varmint model in 22/250 for. We both got great deals! The 788 was worked on and shot Winchester supreme 55gr ammo into five shot groups under a 1/2"! The CZ I got for it was new in the box, and has proven itself at the range with 3/4" groups with Hornady light magnum loads. I haven't taken the CZ to the field yet but know it will perform just fine. My 284 Brown High Country is just so light /handy, and accurate the CZ has stayed in the safe. My complaint with the CZ is that is unnecessarily heavy! Does Mcmillian make an edge stock to fit it? Wish they made an ultralight mannlicher stock for it!

I have been a gunsmith for over 50+ years a nd never had a gun built for myself. I decided at a reunion to have one built by an old classmate Clayton Nelson. We decided on a 7x57 since that was the one caliber I had never owned. It was built on a 1909 Mauser and finished out to be one of the nicest guns I've ever handled. I had it built to specifically use 175 gr bullets. It's a light weight 7lbs even with irons. Very slim 22" barrel. With Nosler Partitions it will shoot 3 shot groups into less than 1/2" after that the barrel warms up rather fast. Nice dark walnut stock with Neidner buttplate and steel gripcap with ebony forearm tip.Custom pedestal rear sight with folding leaf and custom front ramp with front sight that folds down into ramp. Barrel swivel on bottom of barrel not a band. Custom Talley bases that are excellant. Used it in Africa and took quite a bit of game including several Kudu. Just about my favorite rifle of all time. Out to 300 yards I don't really need anything else.

Honestly I think that whatever can be said of the 7x57 can be said of the 308 Win too... good company IMO.

I have two,an M-77 MK II,and a #1A light sporter.
The 77 will put 3 sierra 175's into 1/2 inch if I do my part,and the #1 will put the same load into slightly over an inch.

I didn't go crazy on load development,just stuffed 44 gr. H-414,seated to factory load depth,got those results,and quit.

This load works great on our smallish Texas Whitetails,and our large tough hogs.

Jack O'Connor said he believed the reason the 7x57 kills so well is because it's so pleasant to shoot,and people practice with it more,and can shoot it better.
I agree.

A side note on the M-77 Hawkeye,
I just got one in 257 Roberts,only shot 2 factory loads so far.
Rem 117 RN,and Hornady 117 SST Light Mag's.

Puts both loads to same impact point into an 1 3/4 for 12 shots.

Most horrible trigger I've ever owned!!!
Still I think it has great potential.
Mike

I am in the process of putting together a prettier version of Ugly in 308.

Brad,

I agree completely about the .308. In fact, on every practical point it is probably a better choice than the 7x57, while doing the same things. But certain aspects of shooting lie outside the realm of practicality....

The 308 is argueably the better choice in every area but style points. The 7x57 is hard to beat for tradition's sake given it's history as a sporting round.


So I am at the crossroads,I have decided to build a custom full stock hunting rifle because I bought a nice full stock english walnut blank. I haven't decided for sure on the donor action because it depends upon the cartridge.


At the top of the short list are 7x57 and 308. The 308 will fit in a 2.8 inch short action of which there are many.The 7x57 really cries out for a 'long' short action of about 3.1 inches like a Montana or NULA neither of which are avaiable on every bush.

Decisions,decisions......


Britt

Britt:

Full length stock = 7mm.

Don't make easy stuff hard . . . .

BMT

And then we get back to the old argument of which caliber is the best. Hard choice to make as I like the 7-08 when useing light bullets but the 308 for heavier stuff. Good thing that most of us do not have to stop at one caliber! Long live the gun makers!

While the 308 works in short actions I don't realy like short actions. It's nice to have a little more breathing room as to seating bullets. In my opinion the only real bonus in using the 308 is the wide availability of brass of all flavers. Plus being a 30 caliber you have access to bullets designed for low to medium speeds designed for the 30-30 and the 30 carbine for playing and plinking.

I agree. That's why I have both!
The .308 in a Mnt Guide SS for a bad weather do-it-all and a blued / walnut Mnt rifle in 7X57 for a little more "pretty weather" hunting.

7x57!.....

-

Brad

7x57--- This cartridge with a full Mannlicher style stock, cries
for a 98 Mauser action.

I have four 7x57s -- three Ruger #1s and a custom Model 70 XTR FTW. Two are rare #1s, a 1B and a 1AB that I have not had time to even fire yet. The RSI and the Model 70 both shoot nicely but at different ends of the scale. The RSI prefers heavier bullets -- mainly 175s -- and the XTR is twisted for 140 gr bullets which it shoots into very tight groups.

Whenever I fully retire, I plan to wring out all of them at the range in an intensive way. I've got some Norma brass and some Norma and Lapua rounds to play with alongside the normal commercial fare. And lots of 7mm bullets in different weights and styles. I am realy interested in how the 120 Nosler BTs do on game.

Then there are the 7mm-08s to play with. The 1B SS/laminate shoots great already and the rare 7mm-08 1A is yet to be tested.

1B

"But certain aspects of shooting lie outside the realm of practicality...."

John, you said a mouthful there!

It's best to follow your bliss and not your brains... in the end the outcome is usually more satisfactory and long lasting.

Speaking of... I'm a complete sucker for Mannlicher stocked rifles some of the guys here are touting. I've only had the Ruger 77 version, a 250 Savage, 7x57 and 308.

I wish I had all three back and especially the 7x57!

That cartridge in a FL stock just go together.

Gee, I wonder why...?

I shoot a ruger #1 A in 7X57. Its a dandy little rifle.
It has a VX2 2x7 leupold on it. I carried it deer hunting last year for 4 days. never saw a buck. Got one a day later with my .270.
My Ruger shoots both a 140 grain t-shock and 140 grain B-tip, well under MOA. I shoot 50 grains of H-414, and it gives me a little over 2900.
I JUST BOUGHT ANOTHER 7X57. This one a 1936 small ring mexican 98. I will see how it does.
With heavier bullets I,ve had great luck with RL-19 over the years with A CZ I used to have, and the Ruger...tj3006
...tj3006

I currently have 2 7x57's 1 is a m700classic in a Borden Rimrock stock the other a FN/SAKO m98 action in a Brown precision stock. My favorite bullet is the Hornady 154gr Round Nose with 48gr of h4350 it's a really quick killer. I agree on using the old fasion cup bullets, they work great on deer & hogs under 2,700 fps.

Between those two I would let the rifle pick the cartridge.

You and only one other mentioned the 7mm-08 so far but it has not been discussed yet. I consider it a viable competitor to the 7-57. If factory load popularity is a factor then the 308 has those beat what with its wide range of ammo out there.

However the 308's have that slow 1-12" twist. What with wind drift being so important to longer ranges the 7mm bullets do have an advantage with the smaller rounds.

Since we can load them down but not up above maximum consider that a 8400 Montana in 7mm WSM weighs less, by quite a bit, than the old M70 Featherweight or even a 20.5" barreled 21h. They don't come close however to passing the ugly test.

As I try to choose an rifle/action on which to build a 7x57, it would be nice to have a list of which company's short actions will accomodate the 3.1" mag length needed,

So far I have ruled out the short 77Mkll, the M7 and 700.
The short NULA and MRC will work.

Can anyone add to either list? CZ? M70?

SOS

The number of actions made to fit the 3.1 lenght precisly is fairly small.


There are some vintage mausers that are the correct lenght,the mexican mauser is about right.

There are also plenty of 3.3 inch actions which are pretty close,the Ruger regular long action is not a bad choice, also many Mausers both commercial and military feature 3.3 inch magazines.

Another good approach would be one of the Husquavarna actions which although 30-06 length are very light and trim.

Yet another option that would work is`to take a model 70 action originally chambered for a WSM round,you can then have the bolt face and feed rails modified to feed the 7x57.The model 70 WSM action has a 3.1 inch magazine.

It takes bit of doing to come up with the correct size and length action for the 7x57,most of them have been built on actions that are 06 length thru the years.

Brit

Not a great deal of difference between the two,both are excellent rounds,7mm-08 was born as a factory round in 1980,the 7x57mm mauser was born in the tail end of the 1800s,lots of nostalgia and history come with this one,matter of fact the 7x57 is the cartridge that sent the USA to the drawing board to come up with what we know today as the 30-06.............

Savage99 said, "However the 308's have that slow 1-12" twist."

Sad to say, that is not entirely correct. The Colt, J.C. Higgins 51-L, Mannlicher Schoenaur, Marlin, Musketeer, Remington 722,740,742,780,700,40XB,788,600,660, Schultz & Larsen and Ruger M77 all have a 1 in 10 inch twist.

Te browning, FN, H&R, 300,308, Husqvarna, Mossberg 800, Savage 99, 110, 2400, SAKO, Stevens 110, Winchester 70,88,100, 670,770 all have a 1 in 12 inch twist.

Data from page 421 of the Speer reloading manual #10.

As long as we're discussing the .308, where's the problem with a 1 in 12" twist? Why is it too slow? I can push 220 gr. bullets (Sierra Pro-Hunter round nose) at 2300 FPS from a Winchester M70 and get sub-MOA groups at 100 yards. Seems to me it does quite well with a 1 in 12" twist. It should do just as well in a 1 in 10" twist as far as that goes. So much for the .308 not being capable of using heavy bullets in the 200 and 220 gr. class.
The reason you won't see factory ammo with 200 and 220 gr. bullets is because they do not move out fast enough to satisfy the general shooting public. After all, if it don't move out at 3000 FPS, it's bounce off the hide of a chipmunk, right?
Try working up from two grains below a max load of 44.0 gr. of W-760 and see what the results are rather than believing what you see in the gun rags.
FWIW, shortly after the 30-06 and 30-03 came out with 220 gr. bullet loads, people at that time felt the 30-40 Krag at 2000 FPS was a better elk rifle than the 30-06. The bullets of the time period didn't hold up well at 30-06 velocities. I see no reason why a careful stalker could not get close enough to an elk and use a 220 gr. bullet at 2200 to 2300 FPS and achieve success.
By the same token, there's no reason to not use a 175 gr. RN in the 7x57 at 2300 FPS on that same elk. I haven't seen any elk wearing kevlar lately. Just get close enough and put the bullet in the right place.
Paul B.

The mexican mauser I just bought is about perfect for the round. I can't seat the bullets out real far but I think long enough to add a little more oomph.
My#1 has a long throat and I can seta bullets way out there.
I would have gone shooting with it today but its wet cold and nasty in oregon today. But fear not the sun should make it anual apearence about augest.
...tj3006

I own 2 7x57s. A Mark X Mauser action with a laminated Mannlicher stock, 20" bbl and Leupold 2x7 compact. The other is a 700 Mtn. rifle, wood-blue with a 3x9 Leupold. In both of these, for Missouri whitetails, 139gr. Hornandys have did all I could ask of them. Finding myself in middle-age, having put on a few pounds, I will reach for the Mtn rifle more and more, but IMO what else could you ask for really.

I am enjoying seeing how many fans of the 7X57 there are.
If you toss in its offspring rounds it beacomes even more of a great round.
My favorite round for game through deer is the .257-R, and the 6MM Rem is one I have allways been wanting to play with, Almost no one in the US uses a 6.5X57 but I have a real prety custom on a yugo mauser that I have never hunted with. But I know damn well it would work just great.
And one day, I will buy an old 8mm military mauser and do it into a 20 inch manlicher.
I am a very proud american, but I love the european rifles and the rounds built for them.
...tj3006

At my loacal Academy store there are usually twice as many 7x57 boxes of shells stocked than 7-08. I'd say there is definitly a level of popularity the 7x57 enjoys.