Which companies would have been among the top custom barrel outfits for .25 caliber barrels in the 1950's and 1960's?

I'd be for thinking that Marquart would be one of them but that is just a SWAG.

Dober

I don't know about particulars but I always saw Douglas or Shilens on custom rifles when I was a kid (in the 70's). They were the rage back then.

MtnHtr

Buhmiller, Sukalie, Douglas, Pfeiffer, Johnson and Hart were some of the early guys, and a few more I don't recall offhand.
My step Dad had a custom 257 Roberts built right after he returned from WW II, in 1946. It had a Buhmiller barrel on it. I still have the barrel.

Don

Edit to add: I forgot about P.O. Ackley. He made barrels during that era. My first custom rifle was built in 1957 by P.O. Ackley and had one of his barrels on it. It was a 7mm Ackley Magnum. Shilen followed these guys, and did make fine barrels in the 60's; not sure if he made many barrels during the 50's though.

Thanks for the input folks. My dad bought a nice late 1950's - Early 1960's custom Mauser in .257 Wby yesterday and I am trying to figure out who made the barrel. Since its not marked "made by" anywhere its likely gonna be a "Moose Hunt" but I gots to try to satisfy my curiosity.

One peculiarity of the rifle/barrel is that the caliber is marked on the bottom of the barrel shank and the caliber, .257 Weatherby is burned into the barrel channel of the pseudo-Weatherby style stock.

Did Flaig make their own barrels?

Here are some pictures. The barrel measures 1.145 inches at the shank with a shank length of 3.93 and tapers to .788 at the end of the forend and .626 at the muzzle.



[img]http://[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/hillbillybear_2006/257weatherby003jpg.jpg[/img][/img]



[img]http://[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p170/hillbillybear_2006/257weatherby002jpg.jpg[/img][/img]

The first thing that I notice with many rebarrels is that the caliber often seems to have been stamped on the barrel with very little concern given to alignment or uniform depth. Anyone else notice that? Best, John

Yep, the stamping of the caliber is the worst thing on this rifle. Could be the reason they put underneath

Dude, is Elvis getting freaky with those pillows...?

Could be

" Did Flaig make their own barrels? "

I believe they used Douglas barrels.

I would rate Buhmiller in the top rank of 1950 barrel makers. Eric Johnson of CT was a master of .22 LR barrels and perhaps others.

It was the bullets of the day that were no good until Sierra started up in the late 1940's.

Sam May, who owned Apex barrels, also built many great barrels.

No, Charley Flaig told me in the 1950's that Douglas made all of his barrels.

Obermeyer began making barrels in '62.

As an aside, does anyone have copies of the literature/barrel contours from the barrel makers of this era?

fwiw

PO Ackley's equipment was inherited by Paul Marqaurt of Prescott, AZ and then passed on to Morrison who resides in Hereford,AZ.

Some Navy target/snipers favor the Morrison barrel.

I still have one of Marqaurt's barrels, a cut rifled stainless.

[quote=bucktales]Did Flaig make their own barrels? [/quote


They were made in Germany.I should qualify that.The 3 Flaig Rifles I have the barrels were German.The 15 Dad had were German.I dont know if all were .

I thought that Dennis Bellm bought Ackley's business>

Didn't Bellm marry Ackley's daughter? He was at the business the day I went down to visit P.O. in Holiday, Utah in the mid 1960's.
I also thought that Bellm inherited Ackley's business.

Don

Thanks to everyone for the information.

Don't know what Ackley's daughters second husbands name was but I think her first was Pete Ruiz of Trinidad. Flaig used to advertise their barrels as 'Boehler Stahl' I think indicating German steel. I had a couple of their ribbed barrels that were very nice. In 52 I had a 257 Roberts barreled using a Pfieffer which was supposed to be one of the top at that time.

Anyone ever hear of a barrel maker named Hobaugh that made barrels in Montana? They were supposed to be made of a pretty hard alloy

Two of my most accurate rifles were made by Wm Sukalle, one in 257 Roberts and one in 270 Win. He did the stock work on these, too, and while they are nothing exceptional in terms of figure, the rifles are among my most pleasing to use hunting. Both will group subMOA, 5/100.

Mr. 10at6:
Regarding your question on the Montana barrel maker named Hobaugh.

A good friend of mine, now deceased, had a Ruger No. 1 with an octagon barrel in .416 Ribgy. He pronounced the name of the barrel maker �HOE-BAH�, and that could well be the maker you mention. I seem to recall him saying he was one of the few that would do an octagon barrel at that time, which I believe would have been done in the 70�s, but can�t be sure of the exact timeframe.

Most of the rebarreling done for my friend at that time was by a gunsmith in Tonasket, WA, so a Montana barrel maker would make sense. Unfortunately, the gunsmith has now passed on as well, so I can�t verify the information with him either.

As well, and this is a rather large, �IIRC�, I believe Mr. Ed Nixon wrote that the barrel maker of his custom .338, made on a BSA action was a Montana maker named Hobaugh. I�ll try to remember to check through my old magazines to verify that later.

My recollection on custom barrel makers only goes back to the mid �70�s. We mainly heard about Douglas barrels up here then, with the occasional �serious� shooter getting Hart or Shilen.

Thanks to all for the information.
Regards,
Dwayne

10at6, I have a Hobaugh barrel on a Sharps Borchardt, 30" half octagon, 45-120-550, made circa 1965, fitted by Luft Brothers of Spokane, all work done on recommendation of Elmer Keith, block bushed and barrel is for heavy nitro loads. For forty years it has sat unfired in my gun rack.

Another anecdote, I collect classic Krag sporters, and about five years ago Jerry Fisher agreed to build one for me. We wanted to locate a prewar or early postwar .30 barrel, I advertised, haunted the gun shows, wrote a lot of letters, emails, made phone calls, no luck, settled on a modern Krieger. Rifle is a beaut. Then just last year a Buhmiller .30 blank showed up at Amoskeag auction, I bought it, but too late for the Fisher Krag. Have to think of something else.

Bill Hobaugh built good barrels for many years out of Phillipsburg, Montana. He died not all that long ago, if I recall correctly maybe 10 years, give or take.

JB-one of the few that got away from me that I wished I'd of netted was a Sako action custom by Iver Henrickson with a Hobaugh tube on it.
That was a neat lil rifle, it was a 375 and just a delight. I found it up in Ronan Sports and Western and really wished I'd of snagged it!

Dober

The Borchardt I just mentioned was blued by Henrickson.

Bliss Titus of Heber, Utah and Sharon Rifle Barrel Co. in Kalispell, Mont are a couple more that could possibly fall into that time frame. Titus might be a bit early but Sharon did make barrels in the sixties if I'm not mistaken.

How could you go so long and not shoot this masterpiece? Stuff like that will get your Rifle Loony card revoked

Mea culpa.

Fellow Campfire Members:
In an effort to get my facts straight, I checked the article by Mr. Ed Nixon.

He stated there that his .338 wildcat on a BSA action was barreled by a gunsmith and barrel maker named Mr. Fred Buhmiller who lived near his northern Montana ranch.

We can apparently add Mr. Fred Buhmiller to the list of �50�s and �60�s barrel makers and my memory stands corrected.

I wish a Happy Easter to you all.
Regards,
Dwayne

Fred Buhmiller was active in the 40's and 50's. I believe he sold his business to Sharon in the 60's and spent a good deal of time hunting in Africa. I read somewhere that he killed more elephants than any American : 195.
Sharon got involved in importing muzzle loaders and ultimately went bankrupt.
John

BC30cal

Did you mean John (sometimes referred to as J.R.) Buhmiller? I have looked in all my early Gun Digests and can find no Fred Buhmiller listed anywhere as a barrel maker.

John Buhmiller was mentioned above and I am assuming that's who you mean. BTW, John was the one who went to Africa. You can read about some of it here

Don't forget Ackley's shop foreman John Van Patten who moved east to Milford,Pa. with a rifling machine he built while still employed by Parker.

I meant John Buhmiller. I don't where I got Fred from. It was late when I posted that.
John

Mr. Idared:
Thanks for the clarification that you and Mr. John Duarte supplied for the correct first name for the Kalispell area gunsmith and barrel maker, Mr. John Buhmiller.

As mentioned, I based the answer on a story by Mr. Ed Nixon entitled, �Trophies to take With You�, which was published in the May 1987 edition of Peterson�s Hunting.

In the story, it actually does give the first name of Mr. Buhmiller as Fred, however it also stated that Mr. Nixon was supplied by Mr. Buhmiller with, �some super bullets that he�d proved in Africa.�

I suspect that a proofreading error turned a John into a Fred for the Peterson�s Hunting article. I�m satisfied that the mention of the African experience and the location near Kalispell combined with the Gun Digest reference material you�ve mentioned makes him the same man, given an incorrect first name in the 1987 article.

Thanks for the information as well as the link to the article in Smokelore, I really appreciate it.

Regards,
Dwayne

When I was 10 years old my dad ( Bob Blake) purchased Bill Sukalle's barrel makeing equipment in 1967 in Phoenix,Arizona.It was on Washington street about 13th street. The name of Bill's machine shop was Desert State Machine. I remember Bill very well as he taught my dad how to Gundrill, ream and rifle barrels. The sinebar hook cutter machine was an amazing thing to watch in operation.It still had the over head reversing flat belt drive system that was from the line drive of earlier years! My dads buisness was Blake Barrel and Rifle Co. I had learned from my dad and Bill how to use the equipment and make gun barrels and do reboring. We opperated the buisness for a few years,untill we quit making barrels and continued to do only gundrilling that we still do today. Me and my son still run the buisness and have plans to put the rifleing machine back to use. Bill said he bought the machine from "Ole Man Savage" of Savage Arms. It was Savage's personal machine that Savage used for his personal use.

Paul was one of the best, all right, but he didn't make any barrels smaller than 7mm. No one surpassed his 7mm to .45 barrels, and few were his equal.

His equal for smaller calibers at that time was another Prescott barrel-maker, Rich Carns.

Both Paul and Rich made a number of barrels for me.

One superior feature of their barrels was their complete stress-relief. Paul stress-relieved Rich's barrels.

I love reading this historical stuff. I remember nearly all of these names being mentioned by Jack O'Oconnor in his many articles written in the '50s. He also mentioned in many articles his suggestions for tuning the M70 Winchesters so they would be accurate. The quality of the bullets now available are what seem to show how good those rifles really were.

Jim

Flaigs used two barrels as I recall, Douglass (WV, USA) and Boller (European). One was marked Flaig's Ace and the other was marked Flaig's; I don't want to say which was which as I can't remember and don't want to put out any bad poop.

I have a rifle built by Bill Sukalle in .300 Winchester, I remember Bill and his shop before his time was taken up when he was doing contract work for NASA which took up all of his time. He was truly a master barrel maker and really did some fine work on Mausers. His picture can be found in ROY DUNLAP's book GUNSMITHING. I also remember ROY DULAP from his day's with the Palma team and writing for the NRA he was a great gunsmith and rifle builder, along with a high power shooter.

Every time I hear the name Flaigs I remember stopping at the store whenever on the way to meet my girl friend at the time in Pittsburgh. What a candy store for gun nutz it was. I don't think I ever saw a place to compare.

Sinebar, welcome to the 'fire. It's a wonderful thing to not only own a piece of history, but to have the knowledge and ability to use it.

I bought a Sukalle sporter here on the Campfire Classifieds 2-3 months ago. My bore-scope shows one of the smoothest bores I've seen. It's as nice or nicer than the top barrels made from today, including Krieger and Lilja.

The rifle is made on a military 98 action, and the barrel is stamped ".257 Rem."--meaning .257 Roberts. The date code indicates it was made in 1948.

I've been too darn busy testing other rifles to shoot it yet, but am going to try to this coming week. It has a K4 Weaver in a Griffin & Howe mount and the results should be interesting!

bucktales--I have a Flaigs sporter built on an FN 98 action, with a round to octagon full ribbed barrel. The bottom of the barrel is marked "Flaig's, Austria 9-19-52". It is chambered in .300 Holland and Holland.

If your European barrel is marked Flaig's, I think it is safe to say the Flaig's Ace is the Douglass.

A.O. Niedner of Dowagiac, MI was a famous barrel maker of a slightly earlier period, the 30s and 40s, as was John Dubiel. Another maker not previously mentioned is Hart. And I seem to recall that Melvin Johnson may have supplied barrels during the 50s.

Anyone remember Star "diamond lapped barrels? Not a premium barrel by any stretch (about eight bucks apiece for blanks in the late sixties to early seventies)They were a remarkably consistent barrel. Douglas was always a popular barrel; Hart was a real premium barrel.
Bauska barrels worked better than they looked. Buhmiller barrels were very good.
We used to be able to buy barrel blanks from Sako and they were good barrels. Same with Schulz& Larsen. GD

The gentleman that got me hooked on guns, hunting and shooting, had Bliss Titus barrels on many of his custom built rifles. This fellow was left handed. He had Remington 721 and 722 actions converted to left hand actions. He then had Bliss install barrels. I met this man in about 1959. I watched him shoot a Bliss barreled 220 Swift and put three shots into an area smaller than a dime at 100 yards and that it for me. I've been pulling triggers ever since. By the way, I was nine years old and he told me "that group is not so hot, you should see what the pros do". My friend also had what he called a "Baby .270". It was a .30 caliber model 99 necked down, shortened and barreled to .277. Could it have started life as a .300 Savage?

Gregory, originally that 99 could have been in 303 Savage, 30-30, 300 Savage, or 308 depending on model and year. After rebarreling, might have been a "270 Savage" if he wanted it to work with minimal change to the rotors/etc. That's basically a 300 Savage cartridge necked down to .277. With a good gunsmith, could have been made into other 270 cartridges also.

Met an old gentleman at the range this past weekend who had a 1936 Oberndorf Mauser action with an "Apex Match Grade" barrel in .243 Winchester. Had what looked like a very old Weaver scope with no internal adjustments, the external adjustments were in the rear mount.

Pretty neat rig.

I used most of the barrels mentioned way back then..The ONLY barrel I liked back then was Douglas, they had the modern equipment of the day, that none of the others had IMO...

Only Douglas has survived those days and its still a darn nice barrel, in fact still my second choice for hunting rifles but its a distant choice from Lothar Walthar that I use today almost exclusively...

Back then a 2 inch 3 shot group rifle was the exception, not the rule. Today its pretty easy to produce a 3 shot one inch gun, and a 5 shot one inch gun is relitively common.

Sure do! Had a 358 Norma barrelled up with one on a 98 Mauser. Shot just fine.

Ted

Gregory; The 270 Titus was a necked down 300 Savage and was originated by Bliss Titus as far as I know.

Shilen started business in 1955.
Butch

I don't think so. I've kinda studied up on the Flaig rifles and barrels and from what I've read he used barrels marked Bohler and later on used Douglas barrels.

Hmmmm, as I recall Sukalle was/is Butch Searcys father in law or something like that, guess it runs in the family. At least one of the famous old timers was his father in law or some kin.