Is there any situation in the Contiguous 48 where the 220 grain Nosler Partition in the 30-06 is not the perfect choice ?

BPCR?

Jackrabbits & squirrels??

1-14" twist 30/06?

Antleope and mule deer in Wyoming or Montana off the top of my head.

BMT

Camp Perry?

Maybe. I've been using the 200 Partition for as long as Nosler has been making them. Nothing I've shot needed a second one, and the 1 in 10 twist lets me shoot em into bug holes. Now, in answer to your question: If you forget Silvertips that hunt people in the Bob Marshall Wilderness, no.

Wayne

Are they harder to kill than the Idaho ones ?

.

Some may prefer the 220 grain Sierra Matchking for Camp Perry, but think the Nosler might hold its own.

.

So it ain't perfect. Nor is it perfect for PPC, BPCR, duck hunting nor squirrel hunting. I can keep going if you'd like?

Is this a serious question?

If so, why?

To the contrary, the Idaho Antelopes have Kevlar fur. The 7.62x51 Green tips (armor piercing) are minimum for Idaho Antelope. The 220 partitions will bounce off Idaho Antelope. . . . . .

BMT

Probably . .

But I do know that the 30-06 with 200 grain partitions at 2550 fps are darn near perfect on the "wet side" of the Cascades. Buddy shoots them at Deer, bears, Elk, and anything else he wants to (in season, of course). Everything dies real fast.

BMT

I was over getting a VIP tour of the Nosler factory several years ago. During the tour, we stopped by for a lengthy stay at the underground range. The bullet being tested at the moment was a sample lot of the .308" 200-grain Partitons and they were shooting them in the .300 WinMag railgun test rifle (ULA action).

I witnessed Gail Root shoot four consecutive groups in the 0s with this combination. If memory serves, the smallest group was .03" and the largest was .07"; just one hole, slightly larger than .308".

Gail told me that the bullet was consiltantly accurate and was probably the "most balanced" projectile in flight that existed.

Freakin' unbelieveable.

I'd never use them personally, I'm a fast/light bullet Ballistic Tip kinda guy, but the accuracy of the heavy Partition is both interesting and fascinating.

Steve

I have used the 200 Partition a LOT in both the '06 and various .300 magnums. It not only works on elk at any range but I have also used it on Montana pronghorn and mule deer, and they died promptly. I suspect the 220 Partition would work the same way, even if it does start a little slower.

WOW.

My buddy did choose that load beacuse it sho so well.

BMT

I've taken a rabbit with a 220-grain Partition in the 30-06. It was a textbook example of a one-shot stop.


Okie John

Dogzapper,
Just curious, but were they shooting at targets to look at then, or the system they've been using for about 10 years now, where there is no target..........They use the a computer system that measures the approximate bullet impact through lasers and sound displacement I believe.

I was sorely dissapointed when I took that tour to find out that they rarely ever verify that the bullets are going where the computer said they were.

One of the reasons to hang around this site. Never know when you can learn something.

Battue

DZ and Mule Deer-the 30 cal bullet I used the most (aside from the 165 Sierra HPBT) is the 200 Nozler. Not so much cause I felt the need for the heavy dog but mainly caused it flew so darn good that I felt like super man when I used it....<g>

My experience has been that is one hellish accurate bullet!

Dober

Yep. I have shot many cloverleaf groups with it, especially in .300 magnums. It also kind of puts the hurt on large wild mammals....

But you know, it's just so--how can I put it?--"old school." I mean a 60-year-old bullet design, with a soft point. And even though the partition is moved a little further forward than that in the 180 Partition, it will probably only retain 70% of its weight. Or at least that is what I hear. I have personally never recovered one....

My thoughts have always been 'one caliber, one weight'. Need a heavier bullet? Go to a bigger caliber. I mostly shoot 150's in my 06 carbine, 165's in my long barreed '06. 180's in my .300H&H. 200's in a .35 Rem. and 286's in my 9.3X62. These weights for caliber seem ideal to me. Have I got it wrong?

Not if it makes sense, as someone here once said, you only need make yourself happy!

Dober

Trolling a bit JB?

The reason it's still around after some 60 years ("old school") as you put it, is because "Form Follows Function." It's function is to make dead critters out of live critters under a vast range of distances and conditions.

Unlike garbage like the 8 track audio tape, the heavy for caliber Partitions will not soon dive into obsolescence.

Wayne

heck I hear tell that Nozler is gonna make their 220 semi with a plastic tip......<g>

Heck of a yote rifle I say!

Dober

What we really need is a 250-grain 308 caliber Nosler Partition. Load 'em in a Krag. Then we'll see some real penetration.
.

Damn, if the 'yotes op in the H. Hills are getting so big that we need a plastic tipped 220 Partition to drop em, I'm taking a 50 BMG on my next calling trip.

Wayne

Matt,

Paper targets ... paper targets. Very impressive, one-hole paper targets.

Gail has been gone from Nosler for fully eight or ten years; he moved to the SW and joined his wife in a web biz. I miss him a lot.

The visit I'm talking about must have been eleven or twelve years ago. It was a time when I was really delighted to be freshly retired from my money job and writing about gunny stuff. Boy did that honeymoon end!!!!!!

Steve

Steve,
To retire simply means to willingly, and knowingly, sack your boss. I hope you realize that your contribution to others has not ceased. Spill your guts man, and re-live your life though those who would willingly and appreciatively listen.

I already booked a front row seat.

John

Save a seat for me, I'm ready!!

I've only been hunting with my 300 win for a few years now. I only shoot one bullet; a 200 NP. I really don't think I'm going to switch to anything else. I like having one load that will work for antelope to an almost any angle shot on an elk.

THAT must be why I like the 200gr Partition in my 06AI's so much.......


Casey

I sure like the 200gr partition in my 300 Ultra, it is about the only bullet I shoot out of it.
It shoots very well at 3100+.

The 8mm 200-gn Partition is also a steller performer, on paper or longer-range targets at least. It may well be the most accurate bullet from my Kimber.

-jeff

My 300WM loves the 200 NP, I have pulled my best groups with that round, And it does a heck of a number on anything you shoot with it!

Geez, I'm glad to hear that two years of praising that 200 grain Partition on this forum isn't being dissed by at least a few guys that have been up to their elbows in elk blood.

Wayne

I loaded a box of 30-06 using 220 gr partitions and 4831 for a friend to use on his woods bison hunt. One shot was not good for the 2200 pound bison at all.

Since then, he has used some of the rest of the box on other hunts, and they are not good for moose or bear either.

Ted

Ever use the 200gr Speers?

I've never shot the 220 gr. Nosler Partitions but do use the Hornady 220's. Try anywhere from 51 to 54 grains of IMR4350 and you might be amazed at the tight groups they will shoot.
I also use 200 gr. Speers and they shoot very well also.

Laffin this morning.

Thanks SH.

Bob

"Yea, I know. But I like the lighter weight bullet because it shoots much flatter and hits just as hard."

Nope!!! Here's the plain truth.

Bullet 200 yds .. 300 yds .. 400 yds .. 500 yds

150 NP ........ 0 ... -7.6 ... -22.4 ... -45.7

200 NP ........ 0 ... -8.4 ... -24.3 ... -49.0


The above are for the 150 grain @ 2900 f/s and the 200 grain @ 2700 f/s as per their web site.

The difference in trajectory is WAY less than one MOA, and when they arrive at 500 yards, the 200 grain has 26% more energy.

OK, we need a different excuse NOT to use what the experts above have tried to tell us. What'll it be this time?

Wayne

I looked at it a bit differently being as I am bored and can't sleep....

I used the 150 NPT @ 3K which I feel is realistic for the most part and can't really do much more. And I used the 200 NPT @ 2600 which I also feel is top end but doable from what JB tells me.

I also sighted them both in dead nuts on @ 100 as I feel this is the way I feel best gives bullets a side by side test. IMO sighting @ 200 doesn't, but that is just my way.

So:

150 Noz @ 3K = 100=0
300= -11.6
400=-26.8
500=-49.2

200 Noz @ 2600 =100=0
300=-15.9
400=-35
500=-63.9

Kind of interesting isn't it how playing with the numbers a bit this way or that changes things isn't it?

I'm still for using dotz and I'll still use the 200 over the 150 any old day.

Just a thunk or two on a late night.

Dober

I never liked seeing the .30/06 used of ballistic comparisons. It kept me away from the cartridge for around 20 years after I first tried it then saw all the articles promoting indoor mouse loads coming out of Petersen's stable.

It wasn't until Remington approached my editor in the early 90's and requested that I review one of their rifles that I tried it seriously, and pushed it to see what it would do.

I have been a user ever since and still like the elcheapo stuff like 180gn Hornady's @ 2800fps which is easy to achieve in most rifles, even with 22 inch barrels. Hits hard and is easy to shoot.

Guess that is why it has been around so long.

JW

For any single application, there's probably a cartridge that can do it better than the '06. However, if there's a whole bunch of different applications, over a wide size range of critters, it'll make a pretty decent showing for it's utility.

Wayne

I really like the heavy bullets in the old war horse. All of the .30-06's I have owned simply love the heavy weights. My last kill was with a custom model 70 with a 27" pipe. I was shooting 200 grain Speer Hot core bullets at 2,700 fps behind a stiff load of RL22. I was hunting wild buffalo in the rugged mountains of Utah. After several days of REALLY tough hunting and lots of sho leather, I finally found a couple of buffs at 8,500 feet in the steepest, nastiest stuff you could imagine. I couldn't close the distance and the shot was 520 yards up hill. I dialed in the turrets and hit the switch. Bullet caught the 10.5 year old buff behind the shoulder and it dropped, rolling 75 yards down the mountain (very steep mountain) and got wrapped up in a big pine tree. The bullet broke two ribs going in and one rib going out. Full penetration with a .50 piece sized exit hole. Several witnesses could not believe the .30-06 could do something like that at such a long distance. Of course, I had no doubts whatsoever, having done it several times. Love the round! Flinch

Mark,

If instead of comparing 200 NPTs with 150 NPTs sighted in at any particular range, you select instead the maximum point blank range for each (3" maximum above a scoped line of sight in each case), the 150 ends up sightes in at a longer range than the 200 and the diference in trajectories becomes much greater.

It's even greater if you compare 150 spitzers with 220 grain round noses.

Short of bison, moose, or big bears I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for the 220 grain bullet. I have killed a few pronghorn and deer with 150 grain Sierra cup-and-cores loaded to about 3000 in the 30-06 and found the penetration and expansion adequate for the purpose. My guess is that a 180 or 200 NPT spitzer would be ideal for elk.

I recently ordered some 220gr Partitions, will use them in my aperture sighted 30/06 Husqvarna for playing backup with all my newbie black bear hunters this spring.

Heresy!!!

Peepsights and heavy for caliber 30 caliber Partitions? Nobody can hit anything without at least a 16 X 60, diamond studded, see in the dark, radar guided, digitally enhanced, TACTICAL, CAMO, scope. Even if there is a hit withthe 30-06 using a Partition, it will just bounce off.

Wayne

Personally, I find it difficult to imagine a purpose in North America for which the 220 grain bullet is not well-suited.

-

It might be hard to imagine, but if the object is to wound a fine animal so that it will hobble off and die a painful, lingering death, the heavy for caliber Partition is NOT well-suited for that use.

Wayne

I am loading up box of 30-06 with 220 Partitions and another with 220 Woodleighs and plan on using one or the other during this spring's bear season in my 30-06 as my back-up piece.
In the past, in test media the 220 partitions from my 30-06 penetrate virtually identical to 300 gr partitons from the 375 H&H.

I have killed as many bears with my 30-06 and 200 partitons as I have with the various 375's and while the 375's sometimes (? !) seem to put them down a little faster - the difference is not much, nor as evident, as most people suspect.

I am not suggesting that the 30-06 is an equal to my 458 as a backup rifle - because it certainly is not - but when used by someone who can shoot it the 30-06 with today's best bullets is a perfectly suitable rifle for use on big bears.

I'm a great fan of the 30-06, considering it perhaps the best all-round caliber for B.C. and perhaps, North America.

Prior to Barnes all-copper bullets, I was a proponent of heavy-for-caliber for all truly "big-game" animals.

Now - I'm not so sure.

I would guess (this is a bullet test I haven't done) that a 200 grain tsx and even a 180 grain TSX would either equal, or out-penetrate a 220 grain Nosler Partition. But, that's nothing more than a guess, based on what I've witnessed with other bullets and other calibers.

Has anyone done any real comparison on these great 30 caliber bullets?

Thats some good info. I recently stepped up my Black Bear rig to the 200 grain Partitions from 180's. Just looking for more consistent exits. If it performs well, it could end up replacing my .375 for Brownies...simple is better, right?

Just a note for all you youngsters out there that were born after WW II.

In the late 40's and early 50's, when I was just starting to hunt big game, there was a Grizzly season in Montana. This was before the magnum era, and those who hunted the big bruins usually carried the '06 loaded with 220's or a 348 Win with 250's and both were equipped with receiver sights.

Today we have more powerful rifles, but those guys and their "dirty oh six" felt pretty well armed.

Wayne

I even heard that folks back then felt WELL armed with a Garand and Sherman tank.

Took a cow elk with 220s out of my 06.

No bullet recovery. Nice hole in, nice hole out. Lung blood all over the place. Dead elk. That's how it's supposed to work, right?

-Jake

I’d take a 165 or 180 grain TTSX over any 200 or 220 grain in the 30/06 and never look back.

jwp, I doubt you ever will see any difference but all of us are affected on some level by nostalgia and when it is backed up by long experience it is hard to change. My favorite load for the 30-06 and .300 mags over the past 35 years has included the 200 gr Partition

I'm sure a Nosler 220 would work just fine on anything in NA as the nose is very soft. I had a rebarreled Mod 70 FWT in 30-06 in the mid 90's and killed a big cow elk with it and the Hornady LM 180 load. It worked fine. I then had an opportunity to go to South Africa , so thought, for grins I'd load the 220s. In that particular rifle, which was throated normal, and in that Mod 70 action I had to seat them pretty deep. Only problem was the load that it shot the best ( don't remember the powder now...) was compressed so my dies left a deep ring/distortion in the nose. Yeah, they shot well, but I was too spooked to use it. I found a used Mod 700 35 Whelen Classic locally and had it reamed to the Ackley, and shot the then new to me Barnes 250X at 2550. The Waters Parted, so to speak. I did give that 06 to a Missionary friend of mine there and 5 boxes of the then available Federal High Energy 180 NPT which went 2970 in that rifle! He shot everything including eland with, how do they say it..".aplomb", ha, so its a great round indeed. I always, since, in any 06 I've had, worked up a good 200 PT load, sometimes a Speer or Sierra 200 but always the PT. So easy to find a good load and great penetrators in an easy to handle caliber ( caveat: "Unless" you were to use my deceased Father in Law's Sears Ted Williams Mod 70 knock-off with the hard plastic buttplate....brutal barely describes it...with 150s!)

No doubt, the 220 works for you and others and always has. For me the flatter trajectory of the TTSX and their excellent terminal performance make them for me an all round choice for any and all game.

In the 80’ I loaded the 200 grain partition.

I'm just a damned noob but I haven't found anything yet that a 165gr NP out of an 30-06 wouldn't anchor and being the wimp that I am the 165's feel softer on my delicate shoulder.

Flatter trajectory can be a help if you are unsure of distance but the effects of wind is a tougher proposition and the heavier Partition works great for that.

Yep, and the 200 Partition actually has a pretty decent ballistic coefficient, especially for a non-boattail softpoint.
Bryan Litz's tests indicate the BC is actually slightly higher than Nosler's published G1 of .488.

I've killed quite a few big game animals with the 200 Partition, including a number of elk, and only one didn't exit, a finisher on a facing-away bull that entered the pelvis and penetrated into the chest. Looked for the bullet, but never found it.

Must be something wrong with me, I use 150 Partitions in my 06’s.

What velocity are you getting from your 165s?

I posted the above 10 years ago in this thread. Still using the same rifle and the same load. It's still working. I'm too lazy to try anything else.

If I need to tote an 06, I am going to put a 220 grain Partition in it....

Some of us have to have the latest greatest thing to feel we have all our bases covered..

Some of us on the other end, use what worked 30 years ago or more and its still doing
the same job as today....

I wish Hammer1 was still posting. Some of the stuff he tried out was fun to read about. His reloading/shooting 'house' was a source of envy for me.

Is there a 7mm bullet/cartridge combo that approximates the 200PT / .30-06 performance?

Hagel found the 175 Nosler out of a Mashburn went deeper than any other combo... So something like the 280 would do the job..

A chronograph measured 2800fps. I picked the accuracy load from the Nosler book and it worked good enough on the first try to not bother messing with it. 1/2-3/4" every time I take it out unless I screw up.

For many years me and my kids used a 30-06 to put 200 grain Partitions into moose and caribou, they killed very well and shot through every thing. In the 80's I started using 180 grain Barnes X bullets in the 30-06 and they also killed well and shot through every thing. Almost all of our first shots were broad side and under 300 yards. A couple of years ago I switched to the 168 grain TTSX bullet, so far only one caribou has been killed and it was a pass through and died quickly.

Will the 168 grain TTSX kill as well as the 200 grain Partition, ya got me and I won't shoot enough critters to prove one bullet kills better then the other. But, I won't be a bit surprised if it penetrates as well, with less recoil. We hunters are blessed to live in the age of the "super bullets" and Nosler started it for us Americans when they introduced the Partition. But, time and technology marches on. That being said, I am sure hunters will be driving Partitions long after I am gone.

That is still a wicked combo. The 175 Partition or BBC is pretty danged tough on elk.

I was thinking prairie dogs. Not sure if there would be enuf expansion. On second thought the penetration should be good enuf to make up for that.

I have about three boxes of the older llathe turned 220's that I intend to use on a bison this fall out of my Winchester 1895. Pretty sure they will get his attention.

Lefty C

Wow a thread ressurected from 2008!

Just further proof there is life after death. I think some threads need to be restored from time to time. The potential change in thought twixt now and ten years ago can be enlightening.

No one mentioned this but shortly before his passing, Finn Aagaard did an article on shooting deer with a 220 gr. bullet, the Sierra RN IIRC. Picture of the exit wound was a lot larger than I would have expected from such a heavy bullet in the 30-06.
Paul B.

Yup, High SD topic, for sure

that 220 RN that Finn A used, was most likely Cup'n Core construction where heavier is better for penetration. And mushrooming with sufficient remaining velocity.

The more modern Mono-Metals & Hybrids like lots of velocity on the other hand. Being less dense, they don't need so much SD to be effective ballistically.

I've never used anything more than a 160 NP from the .280 - Love it !

I can sure see a 175 NP being truly wicked from a 28 Nosler though.

I have had the Woodleigh 240gr RN shoot well in the last 3 30-06s I've played with! While I never got to kill anything with it, I could always get 2400fps out of it and 24" barrels. (WW cases, BR2 primer, 50.6gr H4350 3.3" COL, crimped with LEE FCD) Always around 1 to 1.25" for 3 shots. Never killed anything with them but man oh man...