Phil,
I just re-read your great article in the June 2003 Handloader, "Handguns and Bears." In the article you mention using various Smith & Wesson revolvers, including a Model 629 Mountain Gun.

What are, and your family, using these days for handguns? Have you tried, or use, the new 329PD?

I'm looking at buying either a 329PD or Mountain Gun and am torn between the light portability of the 329PD versus the heavier, yet more controllable (and possibly durable) Mountain Gun.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bret

I'm not Phil, but I'll throw my $.02 in anyway - Have you shot either? I have a 629 Mountain Gun and it's pretty brisk with full power loads. I'd have to loose a pretty big bet before I'd let loose a cylinder full of balls to the wall loads from a 329.

I believe Phil had even settled on a slightly less than than full throttle load from his MG in the article. There is such a thing as too light in my book. The MG is already on the edge and the 329 is way over the top, in my book.

The 329 is absolutely PAINFUL to shoot with fullhouse loads and I can't see how any reasonable accuracy could be obtained (or any reasonable practiced proficiency could be acquired) with it, and barely controllable/comfortable with .44 Special loads.

Unless you are SERIOUSLY into very, very heavy recoil handguns, I wouldn't even think twice about the 329.

What is your And others opinion of the 480 Ruger... as Bear Defense and in general?

Just dumped the Ti Taurus a couple of weeks ago! Hard cast at 12/1300 not to bad, but full house very nasty. This was revolver with the ports. The torque on that thing was terrific.

Definitely no control for second shot at close range. Most of that due to the squeegee grips, which by the way will also rip skin from your palm side.

The blast from the ports was worse than the recoil with the heavier loads.

If you want the best in a handgun for Bear protection I would recomend at least a 45 Colt and 325 to 335 grain bullets at 1200 Plus FPS. The 475 & 500 linebaugh as well as the 500 JRH are even better.


In 88 the 475 Linebaugh proved itself on an Artic Grizzly that came in while I was working on a Moose kill and it literaly flattened that bear..

Check this out a man in Montana killed a Grizz after the bear had mauled him and returned for a secounf time. The mand was shooting a 41 Mag with 240 grain bullets according to the article.

http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2003/07/03/news/02maulingbzbigs.txt

400 grain flat point hard cast out of the 480 at 1200 FPS would be outstanding....

Didn't Phil mention that his daughter carries a .357 Magnum or am I misremembering that?

John Linebaugh carries a model 25 in 45 colt with 300 grain hardcast at around 950 FPS as his bumming around the woods load.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

You should, too.

Or, just get a Redhawk in 45 colt, and shoot same at 1,250 FPS without fear of anything that walks

That's what the article said....

I own a Rdhawk, and i have shot some hot loads thru it, darn fine revolver, i sold my SRH because the RedHawk did everything I needed. Les

I've shot a regular 629 with a 4" barrel with both 44 Special cowboy loads and full house 240 gr factory loads. Didn't have problems with either, but would anticipate that with either a 329PD or a Mountain Gun I would handload a 250 cast bullet to something less than full speed (with a 329PD being loaded even lighter, something along the lines of the loads that Brian Pearce had in Handloader 251, Feb-Mar 2009). I both handload and cast, so the loads I use are not limited to factory loads but could be tailored to the use and to the gun.

The Ruger Redhawk "Alaskan" looks about perfect for the job.

If you underestimate the 329, it will make you pay. I know this because as I type there is a 3/8" scar on my trigger finger from where the front end of the 329's trigger guard split my finger open during recoil. Load was a factory 240. I've since shot the 329 a bit with 300gr cast loads at 1000fps and it is a great gun. But it is a specialist's weapon and unless you are willing to invest the time it takes to become proficient you are better off with a the new 4" 45 Colt Redhawk.

I can't speak to killing grizzlies or to the 329, but I have owned a 629 Mountain Gun for years and put a bunch of rounds through it.

With hot loads, it'll get your attention but it's not unmanageable by any stretch. The rubber grip does stress my skin in the web area of my thumb. It gets red and sore after a while.

With 44 SP loads, the gun is a pussycat to shoot.

You might PM BMT here on the 'fire. I've seen him work his 629 MG, and it's pretty amazing.

Neat pistols. How effective on grizzlies, I have no idea and hope to never find out! I bought mine as a camping pistol but the bears around here are a lot smaller than that.

-jeff

The article didn't state it, but I wonder if the man were carrying a single action or double action .41 Mag.?

No matter, he, and it, did the job.

L.W.

JWP,
What are your thoughts on the .41 with heavier bullets; 240 grain softpoints and hard cast 250 grains and up?

Expat

The 41 mag with either the 230 or 265 grain flat point hard cast loaded the way Buffalo Bore loads them would make the 41 as high on the food chain as a 41 can be.. I have been shooting these in my 41 4" S&W and they certainly increase the penetration of the 41. These would definately be my choice in the 41 Mag.
The only problem is that the 265 grains shoot higher than the 210s or 230s and must be resighted for them.

I'm not a gunwriter or an expert on these matters. I have a .480 Ruger in a 5" RB that I bought before the first time I went to AK to carry against the highly unlikely chance I would have to do battle with a large bear. I stoked it with Beartooth Bullets 420gr WFNGC near 1200fps, load was later slightly reduced due to primer pockets that got a bit loose after few firings. The 1200fps loads where reliable but I did not notice the loose primer pockets right away as I was working my way through lots of new brass. The obstacle I see with the 329 is that I think you would have to be REAL careful about full power heavy bullet loads, the kind you might be wanting to use. That 5" RB is a bullet puller, you have to pay real close attention to expander plug diameter and the crimp you apply. I can't imagine a 329 with full house heavy bullet loads not locking up the cylinder. If you want full power I'd go with something a bit heavier.

Is this the article where he indicated a 22 Magnum with FMJ's was suitable as it penetrated well?

He seemed to feel that only CNS hits were going to matter.

IIRC he indicated he carried a 357 with Norma steel jacketed 180's for several years.

Apparently he got a Mountain gun when his daughter needed something to carry.

I can't get too excited about carrying a pistol I can't manage to shoot double action with my weak side hand. That 3229 PD would work but a 250 grainer at 1000-1100 is all I think I could manage and maybe not that.

I carry my 357 Titanium Tracker loaded with 180's right at 1100 fps. I believe that is enough for most uses. When I feel that's not enough I will carry a Deerslayer with Brenneke's or a centerfire rifle.

I have a 45 Colt Bisley that I could use too I suppose. I like 250/270's at 100 out of that a lot better than 300's at 1300 too.

Not that i'm more knowledgeable than anyone else,but i tote a .45Acp and 230 Win Hp's thru my Glock that i can control weakhanded and we have mountain lion and black bear,but your more likely to either find a snake or alligator than a warmblooded carnivore here.

Would be great to hear Phil speak to this. I'm a pretty big fan of his, I like the "been there, done that", as well as the matter of fact manner in which he presents what has worked for him.

Would also be great to hear from folks who have used the 329 with full power heavy cast bullet loads. It's my understanding, not from experience/ownership, that the owners manual states that cast bullets are verboten. Not to say that these revolvers are not the real deal, just seems to limit options a bit for those who would like the really powerful stuff.

Didn't Brian Pierce do an article on this revolver and loads in Handloader or Successful Hunter a while back?

He proposed some heavy bullet, slow speed stuff that was shootable, IIRC.

I shot my 329 three times with full power loads and did not want to shoot it a fourth time. It hurt. I do carry it every day in the woods or on the farm with reloads that have slightly more zip than a .45 ACP or with rat shot. It sure is lighter than the 629 I have carried for years. I have been up close and personal with a few black bears, wild dogs, and venomous snakes in my life and have never been overly concerned about how much my gun was going to kick in those situations. I have, fortunately, never had to come to blows with any bears. I hope I never do.

BTW --- Thanks to all for their comments and views on the 480R

Ok, I usually carry a GLOCK 10 mm loaded with 15 200 grain hard cast for a back up, or personal defence pistol, most times I camp or hunt far from camp, but if there was a reasonable chance ID see, or be hunting bear ID be carring my 450 marlin BLR loaded with 420 hard cast loaded to about 1700-1800fps as I can,t see useing any pistol as the primairy weapon on some threat that could and would given a chance ,kill you. now Ive have a dan wesson 445 10" super mag revolver, and while its noticably more powerful, its not nearly as handy or easy to carry as a back up, and while Id use that for deer,hogs,ELK or bear from a tree stand where theres some distance and chance to place shots correctly, for instant defence work at unknown ranges or conditions the 450 marlin caliber BLR and 10mm glock combo seems to me to be the better choice..... as going out looking to confront what could be a pissed off bear at spitting distances with a pistol alone seems foolish to me!
that and the fact the 10mm has done excellent work in the past on deer and hogs and seldom requires a second shot, I think its reasonable to assume that with 15 shots on tap from a relieable pistol and no intention of useing a pistol untill the rifles empty ,it seems like a decent choice.

What makes you think that a bear attacking you will give you enough time to fire 15 rounds. Maybe have enough time for one shot before the bear is on you. Bears that feel threatened enough to attack do not dilly dally around..

I don,t THINK the 15 round capacity has a great advantage, thats why I pointed out the 450 MARLIN cal BLR would be my first choice, as I said "if there was a reasonable chance ID see, or be hunting bear ID be carring my 450 marlin BLR loaded with 420 hard cast loaded to about 1700-1800fps as I can,t see useing any pistol as the primairy weapon on some threat that could and would given a chance ,kill you but I also don,t see the advantage of carring a heavy caliber pistol IF youve got the 45 cal rifle....which in my opinion makes more sence to carry for protection,and Id be far more likely to be carring that glock 10mm on my belt than a heavy caliber revolver as a "BACK UP" and while its not my first choice in bear stoppers Id rather have the 10mm in my hand with its 15 shots than a 44 or 45 caliber thats far more effective in theory, if that revolvers more than likey sitting back in camp because if IM carrying the 450 marlin carbine, that would be with me,and the smaller easier to carry glock would be fasr more likey to go along, given the threat/risk.
look all IM saying is if theres a reasonable chance your going toe to toe with a bear a heavy 458 caliber fast firing carbine sure beats any handgun for potential accurate shot placement and punch when your under stress, but having a back-ups not a bad idea.

Try geeting that rifle in action from a sleeping bag inside of a tent with a unwelcomed bera for a guest.. I tak a bore bore revolver thank you..

Hunting the North Slope Of Alaska

Also, I'm curious what holster(s) types Phil uses for his revolvers. Hip, or chest?

jwp475
your point about defending your butt from inside the tent at close quarters is certainly valid, but I think your under estimating the punch of a 10mm, while its certainly not a power house like a 44mag, 445 SUPER MAG,454 cassul or 500 S&W it does have the necessary punch to break thru a bears skull or drive deep enought to be fatal with the correct ammo at point blank ranges and while your correct that the larger caliber revolvers hit harder, either choice sure beats being unarmed,and either choice would prove fatal to the bear if you had the chance to start pumping shots into him,as fast as you can while repelling unwanted tent partners, so it comes down to shot placement,either caliber shot thru the skull or into the spine should prove fatal quickly,
yes, your more likely to drive a single bullet deeper with the revolvers, but if given a chance, the 10mm certainly would prove quickly fatal, Ive killed enough deer and hogs with my 10mm to know its certainly capable of shooting thru a hogs shoulders or head.(BEEN THERE DONE THAT SEVERAL TIMES)
double tap sells a 230 grain hard cast load at 1120 fps for the 10mm

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=158

while thats certainly not my first choice in bear repellants Id be pumping a near full auto steam of bullets if forced into that confrontation given the chance, and a single hit could reach the vitals

I think that if a nighttime attack was to occur that the ability to attach a tactical flashlight to the handgun would be a plus.

Here is an interesting article that illustrates that most any decent gun-in-hand that you can use well (and a flashlight) in a somewhat proven manstopper caliber beats no gun at all - and quite nicely in this case despite what armchair theorists may say - at least this guy, if not ideally equipped, was obviously somewhat in the ballpark with caliber and ammo and had opportunity to use the extra capacity:

Does anyone remember the video of the DNR guy that was pulled down from a release pen? When they were turning loose the problem bear,
it started mauling the ranger and he killed it with a 357 .
I think that if I had to get an animal off the top of me it would need to be a DA revolver of good caliber.
I wonder if an auto would work if it was pressed hard into flesh and hide ,while pulling the trigger?

IN 1960, I worked in Montana for a college summer job (Glacier National Park). We had a particularly nasty bear attack (a ranger, another ranger's son and a tourist) and I was on the rescue crew. That Saturday, I purchased a Ruger Flat-top 44 Magnum in Kalispell and carried it in a WW2 medic back-pack when I was working alone in grizzly country. I was treed by an old sow and I used the Ruger to put her down (did not tell anyone at the time since carrying in a National Park and killing an animal were felonies). Another trail crew dynamited a grizzly that kept coming into camp at night, was caught and not re-hired in 1961)

In 1961, I again worked in Glacier and was fishing in the backcountry (Lake Isabel) and had caught about 25 good-sized cut-throats. I heard someone behind me, picked up the string of fish and announced my catch. Just then I smelled a rotten mixture of decaying meat and vomit and just lowered the fish into the lake and waded in up to my waist (bears don't bathe and use Right-Guard, so they smell!). The Ruger was on the bank in my pack. The pucker factor went to 6 on the 5 point scale.

I traded the Ruger in the mid-60's for something more comfortable to shoot. It was light and with the heavy Norma loads then available, it was punishing - the web between my right thumb and fore-finger would bleed from the hammer's impact on recoil. Along the same lines, I've seen S&W 329's in the used section of shops and I'll just bet that they've only been fired 4-5 rounds! Today, I carry a 4" S&W 629 in the woods; it is light enough and the recoil is not painful.

Light weight is great for carrying, but painful for practice. On the other hand, when the chips are really down, you might not care about or feel any pain!

DJS - great stories, you should write these up for a magazine! Do you carry the stanard heavy barrel 4" 629 or a Mountain Gun?

Interesting story but with this line in it " As it turned out, the .40-caliber 180-grain Corbon hollowpoints at 1300 fps were enough to take down a bear in short order." I question what really happened at all. 1300 fps with a 180 in a Glock is a pipe dream. 1000 fps is a max load. Corbon doesn't even load a 180 40 S&W round! That's a hot load from a 10mm!

All this notwithstanding, there is no doubt that a heavy 40 cal bullet would do a lot of damage to a bear. Even a 9mm would be better than a fly-swatter!


Now that I re-read the story, it doesn't say that it was indeed a 40 S&W- I took that for granted- it could have been a 10mm indeed.
I have only seen a handgun used in bear defense one time where a round was fired. While fishing on Arizona's Black River, an aggressive bear ( a large one too) walked straight towards us and at 50 feet my buddy dropped his pole and unholstered his 45 ACP. At 20 feet he put one round into the water in front of the bear. The bear turned and trotted off- problem solved. I've had them stare me down but never had to fire a round thank God!

This always brings out lively debate. I don't have any experience with Brown bears, but I have extensive experience with black bears, and even been in two fights at bad breath range, while armed with a handgun.

When the time comes, the best you can hope for is 1-3 shots that really need to be accurate. If you get more, then great for you.

Cartridge and handgun weight needs to be balanced and determined by your ability to deliver fast, precise shots.

Everyone is in search of the ultimate lightweight powerhouse for comfort of carry. Might I remind you: A defensive gun must first be COMFORTING, comfort is very distant second.

If you have to carry a heavier gun, keep perspective. Handgun weight can almost always be offset by high quality gunleather.

Look to the gun for the comforting part; and look to the gunleather for the comfort part. But don't get the wrong gun to save a few ounces.

You know, America is the only place on earth that would think of carrying a handgun for defense against a brown bear. If you suggested a handgun for defense against lion in Africa, you would be called a lunatic and quietly lead away from the savannah. A brown bear could floss it's teeth with a lion, but we Americans think a handgun is sufficient...or at least we delude ourselves into such thoughts so we're not inconvenienced with a proper rifle. A PH I once met was mauled by a brown bear, after it had soaked up 4 rounds of .375 H&H and 3 rounds of .338 WinMag from both hunters, yet we still have those who go into brown bear country armed only with a handgun.

Kevin, I have been using a 475 Linebaugh since 88 the first year they were available. I have also used a 338 since the mid 80s and I love a 338. But do not dismiss the a 475 or 500 revolver as not being adequate to stop a bear as well as many rifles including a 338 or 375.


The bear on the left came in on me and one of my hunting partners in 88 and Jim shot first with his 338 and the I fired with the 475 and the 475 flattened that bear with a body shot. IMPRESIVE to say the lest and it left as large if not larger wound than did the 338





I know that smaller calibers have worked but I would rather have a bigger bore and resulting would channel..

jwp - congratulations. I happen to be a fan of the .475 Linebaugh, but I'm still not sure I would feel comfortable having it as my primary weapon.

In one of the fights I was in, stopped the bear with body shots from a .357 which did the trick just fine. The other one was stopped, much quicker with a .44 mag.

I know handguns can get the job done, but I'm still not convinced they're the correct tool for the job.

Regardless, a handgun sure beats the heck out of nothing.

Kevin over the years I have taken quite a few head of game with the 475 and 500 revolvers and as time goes on they never cease to amaze me with their performance on game. There is no dought in my mind that if loaded with a proper flat point hard cat bullet or a Punch bullet they will get the job done if you place the bullet in the kill zone (the same goes for a rifle). There are no free lunchs one must put the bullet in the correct location whether a rifle or revolver and for this type of handgun gun performance in a packable package they comes with alot of recoil...

Standard 4" S&W 629-3. I've written several articles for Smokejumper magazine in the past and still help out with the editing. I had some absolutely great summers in the early 1960's and wish I could knock-off 45 years and go back. I'd still be in Montana and Idaho!

So, did Phil ever weigh in on his choices?

Phil, is out hunting this time of year....

I believe it has been written in Rifle (I hope I have this right! Can't find the issue) that for years he used a S&W .357 Mag with a 180-gr Norma ammunition with a bullet geared towards penetration MC? (I think this load was discontinued). Yeah, I know, this freaks everybody out, but he gave some excellent reasons why this works.
He has given this revolver to his daughter.

He currently uses a S&W Mountain Gun in .44 Magnum I believe at the time the article was written.

Hi Frisco Pete,
Phil wrote about these in the June 2003 Handloader. Just wondering what his current ideas on the subject might be. That's the great thing about forums, such as these, is that we can learn from folks who have been there and done it.

I've been a big fan of Mule Deer (aka John Barsness) for years and its fun to see how opinions on things change as he gains more experience, or wisdom. From the 257 Ackley being a great and wonderous thing to it's better to just have a straight up 257 Roberts. I bought a 243 for use as a deer rifle based on an article he wrote in late 70's (maybe early 80's) and he has since drifted from the 243 to the 25's (though I'm starting to sense he could drift back in love with the 243).

So I really appreciate everybody's input and look forward to Phil chiming in if he gets a chance.

Link here by Phil. good read, and leave no doubt to experience and life's lessons.

Not specific to handgun protection , or is it?

As with anthing, daily life experiences, tools used, lessons learned, and being there as witness, evolves one's thoughts, idea, opinions.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=599&magid=47

edit: typo

I don't have a new perspective, but will add my continuing assessment of what works. I started with a Colt Model 70 and 7 rounds of FMJ ball for woods use, I've moved to a .45 Auto Rim loaded revolver with 230 grain FMJ-truncated cone / "Air Force" load, faster than the Hornady load I normally use in a 1911 pistol, by some 100 fps over standard. I have taken to carrying a 10 mm Glock loaded with a 15 round magazine of Winchester Silvertips, with a Double Tap magazine loaded with 200 grain cast flat points. We have a few black bears in middle Tennessee but being a lottery winner is more likely than a bear sighting. I carry the heavy cast bullets for horse and cattle injuries. In the revolver relm, I like the .44 Magnum 629 S&W Mountain Gun. I don't practic with the 325 grain Garret cast bullets as a rule, sticking to 240 grain SWC at 1000 fps for woods carry in the Eastern US. In grizzly country I carry a .45 Colt 5 1/2" Redhawk with 325 grain LBT-FN Buffalo Bore bullets at 1313 fps. I hunt with a 500 Linebaugh 5-shot Redhawk with 435 grain WFNGC at 1289 fps. If you aren't going to carry at least a .41 magnum with soft points for black bears or similar animals, go to a smaller caliber with heavy for caliber cast bullets and demand CNS levels of accuracy. The penetration is there with hard cast or full metal jacket rounds but not the shock. A soft point in .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum is enough for black bear, mountain lion and so on. Grizzly is another story. The really fragile self-defense loads are not ideal for 300+ pound threats. I don't see the need for hyper velocity to get a light weight revolver or pistol to work efficiently in .40 + caliber, just get the weight up and the nose flat and it will work well. I like the 10mm as a general utility gun at close range. Say what you like about the ineffective pistol, I am sure 15 rounds of hard cast 200 grain bullets will make their effect known in a few seconds. The .45 ACP can be effective if a heavy weight spring set is used and dedicated +P loads are used for certain action cycling. The Ruger Redhawks seem to be ultra reliable to me. If I spent time in a remote area, I'd consider the new 4" Redhawk in .44 Mag or .45 Colt as my first choice. A good shoulder holster will easily carry a 3 pound handgun comfortably, don't get carried away about light weight as the ultimate goal. I quit carrying my .44 Magnum 629 S&W with my rifle on a grizzly hunt after the first week. I kept my rifle in reach or my revolver at my side, not both. Once that decision was made, the reason to carry light was lost, togeather they weigh 11 pounds, individually they weighed 8.5 lbs or 2.5 lbs. A handgun allows your hands to be free to work or perform other tasks. A rifle is more powerful and effective at longer ranges. Your circumstances are your best guide.

Wonderful, just wonderful quote from Phil in that link:


It applies well to some who think that a poorly-placed .416 makes up for a well-placed .270.

Placement. Bullet. Caliber.

25 cutthroat? Did you have a van load of Mexicans to feed?

Has anbody had problems with the internal lock system on a Mountain Gun? I've seen lots of stories with it happening with the 329PD.

I guess another question I would have is the use of a Glock for a last ditch personal protection/camping/backup handgun. With the Tenifer finish and polymer frame, and the high reliability, I'm starting to wonder if they wouldn't have a place, too?

The formost virtue of a handgun is that they are portable and likely to be with you at all times. Any handgun beats no gun and a determined person with one should be able to survive most situations. My choice is usually my S&W 44 Mtn Gun as it is comfortable and familiar. I also occationally carry a S&W M-13 357 with hard cast 200gr Fn bullets. i wouldn't feel unarmed with a Glock, Ruger or other good auto but as we used to say in the military - the purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to a rifle.

I read "Bear Attacks of the Century - True Stories of Courage and Survival" by Larry Mueller and Marguerite Reiss (the book S&W packs with the 500 S&W Survival Pack). This book recommends that you only carry a double-action pistol of major power when in bear country. In many of the attacks covered, the victims did not know of the bear's presence until it was on them - it could be difficult to cock a single-action when you are being shaken like a rag-doll without loosing the gun, but you might be able to simply pull the trigger.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I participated in a bear-attack rescue in 1960 and a week later killed a grizzly that had treed me. I used a Ruger Flat-top Blackhawk SA and remember having some difficulty cocking it while hanging onto the tree and being shaken.

No fun and I never go into bear country (black or griz) unarmed

Just saw this thread.... I didn't read all posts, but have had a 329PD for a number of years. Its a bit rough with 300 hard casts... but I am now running 270 hard cast pretty warm. I zero the gun for 240 lead with 11 of Unique, and carry it with 270s in it, they hit a few inches higher. Its not nearly as bad as folks think in recoil. Though I don't shoot 270s often, I shoot the 11 of Unique a LOT in the gun and its about 1 inch or so at 25.
I wouldn't trade or sell the 329 ever, its so light that I carry it all the time or my wife carries it if I have a rifle and she is along with the camera.
IMHO unless you are carrying a heavy rifle you are going to be hard pressed to stop a bear quickly with any handgun. THat being said we hope they will bleed out(chance of a CNS hit in stress in my real world with any handgun would be luck)before killing someone... With that being said I've had some of the big pistols, and they are so bulky/heavy they used to stay in camp a lot instead of the added weight.
Hence the use of the 329... I was about to drop the coin on a mountain 629 when the 329 came out, glad I waited that long.

Jeff

Jeff, a 475 Linebaugh will put a Bear on the ground imediately in my experience.

I dropped the one on the left along with the Moose on the left with the 475 Linebaugh and hard cast. The came in on the Moose kill we were working on and he didn't care that we were thier. The 475 dropped him in gramatioc fashion

I won't argue, but I will say this, it was shot placement IMHO. I would be willing to bet one of my 300 or 270 hard cast would have done the same thing. But since I have not done it I cannot comment.
I can say if it was a choice between packing a pistol that heavy and large and my 329, I'd pack either my 329 or a 45/70 or larger rifle... I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
How fast was the charge? What distance did you end up shooting at IE how many feet? How many rounds did you get off? What was the angle and target size? Where did the bullet impact? Complete penetration I'm sure.
Jeff

btt

Someone had loooooots of time on their hands today!!!

nah,

One of they guys at work is headed to Alaska for fishing, and I offered to loan him my 686+. The "experts" here in WA state told him he "needed" to buy a 44 mag or bigger.

Just did a search after PMing Phil for his choice of handguns, and found this.

Thought it was time to kick the can again....

Odd I saw this thread tonight. Taking my dad on a road trip soon from my brother's house in Colorado up through Wyoming, Jellystone and parts of Montana.

Packing a G23 on my, but dad is concerned about bear so also taking my brother's 4-in. S&W .460 Magnum and some Corbon Hunters loaded with 350 gr. JSPs at a published 1,750 FPS.

Told dad bear attack is pretty remote chance since we're staying in hotels, but I know the .460 will prove better for defense against road-ragers in vehicles up to F-350 size; ought to penetrate from any angle.

686 would be a good choice with a heavy cast boolit.

I have handloads of 180 grain WFNGC, and buffalo bore makes factory ammo in the same.

Easy choice for me. Not so much for the "experts."

What a great thread! These are the reasons I love the 'fire. I don't care what hunting oddity you name, someone here has first-hand (many times LOTS of it!) experience. I don't know if I'll ever even get to the big bear country, but thanks to this and other threads like it, I almost feel like I have experience before I get there! ...almost!

I feel that the really big bores are great hunting/paper revolvers. SA or DA. For bear defense, I feel that multiple shots will be needed. That is why I would go with a small, easy to go to, SS DA revolver in .41mag stoked with Federal 250gr Cast Cores.

FWIW, not many bears in KS.

Me shoot a bear? Nope, but I do have a S&W 629 classic with the 5" heavy barrel, and it is tolerable with full power loads, and fairly controllable in double action. It's not bad to carry, either. I'm thinking it might be a very good balance between power, speed, size, and accuracy.