I have a Win 12 in superb condition. I'm trying to establish if it is original. It was mfg in 56. It has upgraded wood, and the coloring is lighter than you normally see on Model 12s. It has an extended forearm with 2 diamond-shaped patterns checkered into the bottom of it. There is no checkering on the pistol grip. I purchased this from an elderly gentleman. He informed me that he purchased it new back in the 50s, and I have no reason to doubt him, but I have never seen a model with only 2 diamond checkers and no checkering on the pistol grip. There are no other markings on the gun to establish it being a skeet or trap model, but its appearance leaves me to believe that it's not standard field. Will gladly send photos. Appreciate any help you can give me on thsi subject. Thanks.

Madis' The Winchester Model Twelve is the textbook on them. I have a copy, but there were enough variations possible to make definitive identification tedious. There were numerous "special" models.

jim

If a 1956 manufacture date should be in serial # range of 1,500.000 and low 1,600,000 serial # range. Please include first 4 digits of serial # t00. You need to add what barrel is on the receiver, plain, solid rib, dounut base vent rib, 2 pin milled rib and choke. If the gun has a vent rib or solid rib the forearm should be 3 diamond. The 3 diamond rib has side panel on each side with smaller diamond on bottim 18 lines per inch.

If the barrel is ribbed the he can be a superfield, skeet or trap model depending on barrel. Now without Pics the forearm could be original but if a plain barrel then it's not. Now look at the butt plate, should be a winchester spelled out running top to bottom with phillip head screws.

Look @ the forearm steel nut on front of forarm, 2 slots, look @ each slot for any marks the winchester forearm nut has been in the slot since its left the factory. Winnie has grease on the threads of the nut, they became hard over the years and the forearm nut hard to remove causing dents in the forearm nut slot when removed.

If you know how to take the front/rear assembly apart, listen carefully, look at the face of the front of the receiver that meets the barrel extension, the face should be shiney. Then look at the chamber ring in the receiver ( the barrel sits on the chamber ring when attached, if the chamber ring is shiney then the receiver has not been re-blued. When model 12's reblued these areas are left untouched to give it away. Even if the best counterfeit done, then the factory draw file marks run vertical on the side of the receiver, the draw file and buffing marks run length wise on the top of the receiver and turn rails on bottom of receiver.

Then check the top of the front of the receiver for "WP" winchester proof mark, if missing and your gun has a rib then could be a simmons gun. If original rib they're should be a "WP" proof mark below the rib next to the barrel extension, if it missing, not original.

The only exception to factory original is factory gun Ernie Simmons (simmons guns) bought from Winchester, put his ribs on them and sold thru his catalog. These are rarer than original winnie model 12's. Ernie had a close relationship with winchester and his people trained winchester empoloyee's how to install his dounit and round post rib. I just valadated a Simmons made 28 ga model 12 the owner sold for $6700. The early days late 1940's/early 1950's Sommons added ribs with out reblueing the receivers and the guns also had factory wood.

I was lucky to see 2 Wincherster Model 21's custom made for Ernie Simmons still in the factory boxes several months ago. The boxes were labeled "custom made for "Ernie Simmons".

I hope this will help you get started and ask away but Pics will help.

There are no Winchester WP proof marks on the barrel or the receiver but the serial numbers match 14190xx. The barrel markings are not your normal Winchester markings. It only reads WINCHESTER Trad Mark and dose not state that it is manufactured by Winchester Arms New Heaven. There is an address on the Vent Rib it is Marked Simmons Gun Specialties INC Kanas City MO. The gun does not have a Winchester butt pad it has a white Line Sure Grip Pigon Shooter Pad on it. Barrel is Mod and is 27 inches in length to the receiver.
Thanks for your input, Mike

Simmons did buy winchester parts and build the shotguns themselves. The fact the reciever has no "WP" suggests this.

Doc

mike,

Your model 12 built around 1954, it was a plain barrel 28" mod choke and WP proof marks covered over when simmons rib added. These models are just nice shooters.