I can't help but see the great numbers of gun magazine pics showing people with their rifles resting on their shoulder. It looks unsafe and sloppy. Something I would discourage in a youth firearms safety class! Is gas so high that they can't afford a sling? Even that blackpowder guy has it on the shoulder in the recent NRA Hunter.
What is the deal here?

My guess would be muzzle control. It's hard not to know where your muzzle's pointing when it's darned near in your hand...

Besides the poor African tracker is usually in the front, so it's apparently best to have the muzzle pointed at him.

Watched a recent show where they loaded the double rifles, placed them like so and headed out. All the time the muzzle was pointed at the tracker in the front. That from a well known writer.

Gotta love it.

Thats' funny! a lot of truth to that.

It must be custom to do it. I'm in Africa therefore I carry the rifle on my shoulder. It looks cool for pics anyways.

Notice how when an animal is down and it's time to pose for pics they squat 3 feet behind the animal and have the muzzle pointing at hunters head?

Think about the saftey and exposed triggers behindd the shoulder. Absalute minimum control !!!! and maximum exposure.
I doubt chambers would be empty for D/G.
Woodchuck

I've often wondered the same thing, and since they DON'T seem to use slings, I suspect it is because most big caliber rifles are so damned heavy that you need to rest them somewhere.

Probably because it looks cool and is what clients expect from their "African Experience."

Where does the PH typically walk? Way at the back?

- Tom

BTW, what, exactly, is a "PH"?

PH=professional hunter. A guide, in North America.

It's a dumb way to carry a rifle. You have no control if you fall.

I carry mine (in Africa or elsewhere)slung over my shoulder. If game is near, I carry it in both hands.

DG rifles are not that heavy. 10 pounds or so.

So why do they carry them so? In the old days, they had gunbearers. The gunbearer walked in front, rifle butt pointing backwards, so you could easily grab it from him and shoot. Nowadays, no gunbearers but the habit lingers on.

Professional Hunter, he's the guide. The others are usually trackers and skinners.

It seems to me that the African Carry is due to the weight of the rifles, usually 10-12 lbs, or more. For dangerous game you don't want a sling interfering with bringing a rifle to shoulder in thick cover during a charge. That's the theory anyway.

Here's another thought. If the rifle is over the shoulder and the PH is holding the barrel, he might be better able to use it like a club!

On long walks, where I haven't a sling to use, I frequently change the carry to rest muscles. I have carried over my shoulder and find it is not uncomfortable. I have never ventured afield with an 11 lb rifle however!

I just always make sure to use a Gunbearer any time I'm hunting with a rifle...

Mine just comes from the folks at Kifaru!

If you get a copy of African Rifles And Cartridges, by John "Pondoro" Taylor you will see the same explanation that IndyCA35 gave. The gunbearer carried the backup rifle, usually of very big caliber. The hunter wanted him in front so that if the backup rifle was needed it could be grabbed by the wrist and put into play very quickly. Taylor also thought it was well to keep the guy with the backup rifle where he could be seen, instead of turning around to find that an angry beast was charging and the gunbearer had left for a safer location, still in possession of the backup rifle. Embarrassing situation.

Don't get me started. During 3 weeks in Chewore I lost count of the times I found myself staring at the muzzles of a 470 double.

Finally the PH adopted a sling, ostensibly to please one of the trackers, who had witnessed the death of a tracker by AD some years earlier.

That said, it IS a comfortable way of changing carry position. Just make sure there's no one in front of you.

SOS

After watching a few Africa hunting DVD's, as well as the cable TV stuff, I've seen some truly appalling muzzle discipline, to include the "African carry" noted in this thread. Makes me thankful that the PH we'll be with in a couple months, is a gun nut, and watches where his rifle is pointed(verified by several friends who've already hunted with him).

Jeff

Or, short people can place the recoil pad under in their armpits and use the rifle as a crutch!

In our hunter safety classes, we try to instill the thought that a muzzle is never ever pointed at another individual regardless of the state of the firearm (loaded or unloaded, closed action or broken open). To safely violate this, the carrier has to keep asking himself whether a unit is loaded or not and have absolute confidence in the safety and sear if it is. The person in front of the muzzle obviously has to put his life to the hands of the carrier.

I can not envision the day that I would tell a student it was OK to point a muzzle my way as long as the arm was unloaded. I've been around about 4 unloaded arms that went off. Fortunately, they were all oriented safely.

I see the practice arising from two issues. 1) being to damn lazy to practice safe firearms handling, and 2) a complete lack of respect for the people looking down the muzzle.

Anyone who handles arms in that manner around me, will find themselves walking alone in short order. There are any number of carries one can employ, regardless of the marching formation, that will not endanger those around you. If one is going to pursue game in those environements, he should have enough conditioning to haul a 10 or 12 lb unit. One never sees them carrying anything else except binocs. Maybe they should come to north America, strap on an additional gear pack, survival gear, lunch, and water, and go climb a mountain in the snow. Just my rant, 1Minute

I'm another that will not tolerate any firearm pointed at anything that isn't to be killed, etc.
On the other hand, the most useful, and fastest carry position I know of is another african carry. Carrying the rifle with a sling, muzzle down and upside down. Or muzzle up. When I'm tracking, or still hunting, that's how I carry mine. Very quick. Just drop your off shoulder, grab the rifle by the forend with your off hand as you do, and rotate it up into position. Smooth and quiet too. E

Funny how we all differ. I don't believe a sling belongs on a big game rifle.

Slings are useful for carrying a rifle back to camp or vehicle, in the dark, on a trail or road. Or when traversing long distances on the tundra or prairie with no game in sight.

Hunting rifles belong in the hands, when hunting. My PH asked me, after a couple of days of hunting, why my rifles had sling swivels -- because I had never used the sling once. He said one of his biggest issues with American and European hunters was that they constantly slung their rifles, and thus were never ready to shoot in the bush. He never had that problem with me .

I do like the Kifaru Gunbearer for packing in and hunting with a pack. It's like carrying the rifle in your hands, without having it in your hands.

The "African Carry" bothers me a bunch, and is safe only if the hunter is alone. Its biggest flaw is that the muzzle is always pointed where the bearer's eyes are pointed. This is a bit disconcerting when such a person turns to speak to you...

Dennis

My slings, with the Uncle Mike's QD swivels, are kept in my day bag until the actual hunting is over. Click-click and I'm ready for the trek back to camp or to free my hands for carrying a cape or rack or whatever.

Wayne

Well, I�ll go uncomfortably out on a limb and say, I love the �African Carry.� However, my rifle is NEVER pointed at another human being. I have a few guns that have no sling swivels and are likely to stay that way, since I�m really into old vintage guns. When afield, I carry a lot of different ways, but there�s no such thing as an OK way to point a gun at another human. The �African Carry� is great when muscles get tired.

If you�re going to carry that way, you must do so while you and your partner(s) are walking abreast, or you�re the person at the front of the pack; otherwise it�s strictly forbidden. There�s just no excuse for pointing a gun at another person. If you�re going to carry over the shoulder, then you really have to keep your head in the game, or be hunting alone. Most of my hunting is alone, so I don�t have to worry too much.

In 6 trips to Africa, I've never had a rifle pointed at me, either by a PH, a tracker, another hunter, or a game scout. They are all very conscious of where rifles are pointed at all times.

They carry them that way because they don't use slings for safety's sake. When you are hunting where dangerous animals roam, you don't want anything (i.e. sling) that might catch on a wait-a-bit thorn or any other ground flora. Another reason you will never see a PH's rifle with a scope.

Try walking 10-12 hours a day, and see if you don't carry a rifle on your shoulders occasionally. Most of the time, they are carried in their hands - sometimes on the shoulder. A typical PH can care less if he looks cool - sheesh.

I did, and more than one. They weren't 4.5-14's, but they were definitely riflescopes.

All Leupolds, incidently... .

Dennis

Funny, I've walked plenty of days 10-12 hours hunting (sans sling) and the rifle never made it to my shoulder. Must be an equatorial thing.......

I agree that it shouldn't be "slung" when you're hunting, but there are a lot of placed that I have to hike several miles into that require some climbing and a rifle pretty much has to be slung then.

That's what I meant, if actively hunting the rifle shouldn't have a sling, even when walking whilst hunting.

I generally have one in my pack, but can't really remember the last time a put one on a rifle.

I rarely take them all the way off unless I am using the sling to pack a critter over my shoulder with it- as I have done on pigs a few times

I've hunted Arizona and I probably wouldn't need to take one off there either. In a rainforest though, everything graps ya.......

Truth is, I've NEVER liked a slung rifle. Weak hand craddle carry is my method 99% of the time, cept when using it as a walking stick.

I use a sling for shooting; if I'm walking I put the gun on my packframe.

I used a sling for about 2 weeks as a kid when I first started after eastern wood chucks. After missing about 2 shot opportunties, I decided I was out there to hunt, and have not used a sling since.

This fall I hope to use about a 14 lb Sharps on elk. Given the price of the sights on that rifle, there's no way I'm going to let the muzzle or tang pass through the woods unattended.

When the hands get old and arthritic, I may change my tune. If I'm out there to pack an elk or moose back to camp though, carrying the rifle out seems like a piece of cake.

The last issue for me is that there's always a risk of falling in snow or on steep slopes. With the rifle in hand, I can control where it goes in about 95% of those instances. Attached to my torso, I have no such control. 1Minute

I bring a sling along with, but never use it while actually hunting. Walking in and out in the dark is when it gets used, or with an animal down.

I really hate those "Safari Sling" things. Couple guys I hunt elk with were into those things for a couple years there. Talk about a device that just about automatically results in poor muzzle control...

Personally, I use a sling quite a bit. Rifles got heavier about the time the hills got steeper. After years of carrying a rifle at port arms or thereabouts, I realized I wasn't the kind of rifle shot to take a deer on the rise like a quail anyway, so why carry them like I was? When I'm still hunting, it's at port arms again, though.

Ste..,

Same here. The Army tought me a sling was for marching but in Indian country your weapon belonged in your hands. May be why Africans carry the way the do . . . a lot of crawly, bitey, stompie, gorrie, turn you into biodegradeable mush critters in their world.

O

I've seen more than one silly magazine article along the lines of "How to Get Your Slung Rifle into Action Quickly When You Spot Something to Shoot". My sling stays in my pocket or pack unless I need it while dragging a dead animal, climbing a tree etc. My rifle stays in my hands or rarely at shoulder arms.

Funny that you say that- I had never used a rifle as a walking stick before this past October on Kodiak.

Wow! A lot to do about nothing, the arrogance is outstanding at any rate...How one carrys a gun is his business as long as its safe, and I can certainly carry a rifle in African fashion without pointing it at anyone, if you cannot then you can't chew gum and walk....At least I know where the muzzle IS!!! Also you should take the depth factor of the camera in consideration, it does not show angles very well...

During the course of a hunt I will carry my gun in various ways, because if you really hunt and walk a lot of miles you pretty much have to keep changing around to keep from soreing up...

A sling is an abomination of the city dweller...I have seen more game lost by folks fumbling with a sling and not being prepared for that window of opertunity...A sling will also wear you out in the neck and shoulders...When I hunt I am ready for the shot..

As to PHs shooting iron sights, whats the problem there, I shoot iron sights more than scopes on dangerous game..I was raised on iron sights and can shoot them better than I can a scope up to 100 yards when shooting off hand..Try it you might be surprised how accurate they are if you learn to shoot. Scopes are better beyond 200 yards for me, no doubt about that.

I just think there is a lot of folks without much practical experience makeing comments about things they have no real on the ground knowledge about, at least it seems that way...

I keep my horse tied out back, so I can make a quick get away and I probably should make a run for it now!

I've done all of the above for years. Frankly, when I'm traveling, not hunting, I use a Kifaru Gun Bearer only if I need both hands free. I might be using trekking poles, or I might be doing some standing glassing, etc.
I've done lots of quick shooting with a rifle sling. If you carry it upside down, muzzle down, it comes up and gets on target just as fast as the Woodsman Carry, i.e. cradled in the weak arm.
A properly adjusted shooting sling will cut your group size at least 30%. That's why all of my hunting rifles have sling swivels and a sling setup for each of them.
While the military style shooting sling tends to be slow and can cause some fumbling, the CW setup reduces speed not one bit. That's why all of my big game rifles have them.
I find it very advantageous to use a sling, african style, muzzle down, while tracking or still hunting. That allows me to use my binoculars to look through cover and, hopefully spot him before he sees me. If I can do that, I get to shoot him in his bed or as he gets up casually for a look around. Not when he suddenly breaks cover and gives me just a few seconds to shoot. The toughest shooting I do is on game that takes me by surprise and gives me seconds to shoot. I'd much rather see him first and be able to take my time, or at least be fore warned. E

I don�t like shooting game while they sleep either so I wake them up first. LOL
Seriously ditto on the carry method. Good advise.

Does somebody remember the name of that famous WH who accidentally killed his long time and much appreciated tracker, while progressing with his rifle on the right shoulder in "traditional African carry" ?

I have been carrying by this method since I had my older brother's oversized BB gun at age 5, and have never stopped, but I am damned careful about muzzle direction. I just find if to be more comfy than a strap digging into your shoulder, and if I grab by the muzzle, I find it super-easy to carry and keep the muzzle in a safe direction, and have ever had any issue with safety.

By contrast, I have seen a non-friend that I had the bad fortune to be hunting with "Barney-Fife-it" taking a gun off his shoulder that was carried via the sling. Glad I was some distance away and the gun was not facing me when he did that.

I guess you can be safe or unsafe, depending on you the individual

Everybody is different i guess. I do the african carry thing quite a bit but I dont point the gun at anyone. I change up the carry method all the time. I also use a carry sling often, rifle upside down and muzzle up on my left side (right handed). My left hand stays on the rifle. Very comfortable. Very quick to get on target.

FWIW Ive seen many folks doing the weak hand cradle carry and point the rifle at their partner also. That doesnt make the method of carry wrong, just the hunter.

I'll refrain from giving the name of the one I know of, since he's still active in the industry.
SOS

Yep, and if I'm hunting with someone I won't carry it that way.

Of course we all know that I never have a round chambered, which doesn't remove the need for muzzle control.

Damned if I didn't turn on the TV over the weekend and watch The Shootist, which is John Wayne's best movie as far as I'm concerned.

I've seen this movie a bunch of times but this was the first time I noticed Wayne, carrying his Winchester in his weak hand, point the muzzle seemingly right at Ron Howard's chest, while he's asking "young Gillum" to take his horse down to the livery. And even if the camera angle is slightly misleading, it had to be close enough to dammit.

Thought the Duke would have known better.

- Tom

I have been watching a whole host of new hunting related TV shows on Direc TV's ch 611, and I have seen several that regularly point guns at the camera!

It's natural to carry heavy tools on the shoulder, like picks, shovels, belt-fed machine guns. It provides some variation when carrying a break action shotgun open and unloaded, especially one with 30 inch barrels.

When I carry a rifle or shotgun on the shoulder loaded, it is muzzle up, with my hand on the grip. If anyone else's muzzle even comes close to pointing at me, I don't hesitate to push it away with my hand.

What a concoction of contradiction and ignorance.

-

Safety applies to shotguns too. I've gotten tired of looking at pictures of skeet and trap shooting champions because of the resting of the muzzle on their foot. And then to see the leather "flap" that is sold that lets you rest your muzzle on your toe.

Stupid is as stupid does I think is the saying.

D

I truly hope to hunt pheasants/quail, etc with the cold carry guys!! Especially if they hunt with an over/under!!!

Likewise here. I've also had three instances where I've taken one away from somebody on repeat offence.

Throughout this whole thread, some of you good folks are TFF......and you probably don't know which ones you are.

But thanks for the show.

Sorry Big Redhead, didn't mean to touch a nerve, just thought it was time for a little humor!

I've never been to Africa or been around anyone carrying "African style" so I can't comment there but the big game pics with the rifle pointed at the hunter/guide freak me out every time. Every once in awhile, somebody will remember to at least leave the bolt open but it's still a silly/stupid way to pose for a pic!!

Likewise. I should learn to KMBMS.

-

I returned from South Africa about 3 weeks ago & hunted a number of concessions with my PH & trackers. On more than one occasion the truck(s) raced to get ahead of game being pushed by trackers & either myself or another hunter would hop out & stalk toward on coming game. Rifles were loaded so a quick shot could be had on the way to the next drop off point. I felt very uncomfortable with safety & expressed my concerns to the PH, who is a personal friend. I have hunted with him before & this tactic was not used. I shot my animals in a traditional manner mostly with an assistant PH. I always stalk with my rifle at the ready with out a round in the chamber. I have never had a problem chambering a round as the shooting sticks are set up.

Just an aside; Uncle Mike's swivels are now made in China out of old pots and pans. If you want high quality and tough swivels, look here:

GrovTec

The bottom line has always been, if a man doesn't feel he is safe caring a loaded rifle in his own two hands - he shouldn't do it. Hunting and the use of firearms has and will always have inherent risks. You have to be careful and observe everyone else in your party as well. Situational awareness is part of the game.

back to the original question - i read many years ago the "african carry" came about for two reasons. 1. guns were heavier and it was easier to carry said rifle on the shoulder as opposed to a rope (as a sling). 2. the gun on the shoulder could be brought to use quicker that were it on a rope/sling. slings get caught on stuff.

Your second point is the main thing. The African PH I hacve hunted with most (and who has the most experience of any of the PH's I've hunted with) says, "Hunting dangerous game with a sling on the rifle is suicidal."

This is because most dangerous game hunting these days (primarily buffalo and elephant) takes place in thicker cover. Since everything in Africa has thorns, a sling will catch on everything, whether or not is over your shoulder or not. It's stupid to have one on the rifle when you have to shoot very quickly in very thick stuff at something that may be coming your way from a matter of feet, not yards.

If anticipation of an encounter with dangerous game is the issue, in my view there is something better. A two hand hold in the forward "ready position" is lightning fast. Its what we used in no-knock entries or high risk encounters. The forward sling carry that the military uses also has the rifle poised for fast engagement and is safe when in front and close to your body.
The "African carry" looks like you are in "code green" - completey unaware of your threat level - be it a Cape Buffalo or an armed attacker. It looks like you are anticipating "Miller Time".

Never hunted Africa, but I would follow, what years of actual hunting experience has taught those that hunt there.

My experiences, hunting elk, deer, antelope and black bear, don't equate, with hunting cape buffalo and elephant in the thick stuff.

I would think a quick detachable sling would be ideal. When the thorns are so thick they are sticking my sling I would be wearing brush pants rather than the shorts that most of the photos show of hunters in Africa.

In general theory, I can entirely agree with this statement and sentiment by your PH. However, in practice and personal experience I would disagree.

While having the rifle at port arms and ready for an encounter with a dangerous animal (human or otherwise) is entirely the corrrect way to go, not all of your time afield, in fact a very small amount of time afield, will be spent in anticipation of a close encounter of the dangerous kind. In fact, much of your time, even in thick country, is spent tracking the animal and one knows in most instances when you are getting close and need to prepare for action. During the time spent tracking, I personally see no need to constantly be in a state of anticipation and 100% readiness and alert. I believe this would be extremely tiring and that no one could do this for very long, even the best of hunters. Yes, you need to be ready at all times to encounter your prey, but 99% of the time, I highly doubt you will need to face a charge or fire your weapon the instant you first see the animal.

In my experience hunting Cape Buffalo, although very limited, both myself and my PH used a sling on our DG rifles. When we encountered buffalo, we obviously had the rifles off the shoulder and at the ready, anticipating a shot. This happened many times and I don't remember a single instance when either of our slings were hung up on brush, trees, etc. and we were always in the thick Mopane. In addition, when following up a wounded buffalo and anticipating an immediate encounter with an angry bull, my PH, who was a veteran of the Rhodesian war, actually wrapped up in his sling in a manner similar to a hasty type sling arrangement. By the way he wrapped up, I could tell that he did not do this just to have the sling out of the way, but to provide a more stable off-hand shot should one present itself. If he felt the sling was in the way or useless, he had more than enough time before starting the follow-up to remove the sling from his rifle had this been the case.

My conclusion, FWIW, is that this is another instance of different strokes for different folks. What works for one and makes complete sense to him, may not work or make sense to another. I've used a sling on my rifles from the time I started hunting rabbits with .22's from age 10 on and find them useful. I've yet to be convinced that they are a hindrance. Likewise, with the African carry, I think as long as the person exhibits proper safety practices and muzzle control, I can see nothing wrong with this mode of carry.

Test

My PH friend (also a veteran of the Rhodesian war, in fact one of the original Selous Scouts) hunts more in jess than mopane, though he hunts in both. Even thick mopane is quite open compared to many of the places he hunts.

One of his points is that when hunting really dangerous game, you do not always have the choice of when an animal might take offense. Charges are NOT always the result of the hunter in question wounding the game; in fact many charges are from animals that have been wounded earlier (whether by hunters, snares or other animals), or by mamas with young. Carrying a rifle slung when in really thick stuff amid such unpredictable possibilities is not a good idea. Or he does not believe it to be, and most other PH's agree.

But as you said, different strokes for different folks.

I beieve there is a lot of room here the "different strokes" concept; in all ways, though, total and complete consciousness of the muzzle direction should be foremost in the carriers mind.

I've had my greatest problems in bird hunting in large groups in SD where you may get thrown in with many you don't know to form a small army of walkers and blockers. I've made more than a few comments through the years to this stranger or that who acted as if their shotgun barrel was a laser pointer. Of late, I avoid those situations. Many times I've used the "African Carry" in the bird fields when moving from area to area with my SxSs but always with the action broken so all could see it was unloaded and be and feel safe.

On my one trip to Africa - Namibia - it was so brushy you didn't know if you would come upon game at 30 yds or 100 so there was no place for a sling really and in practice at home a sling was problematic on the shooting sticks taking expensive seconds to get all cradled properly.

My PH walked just in front of me and requested my rifle to be loaded but not carried "high" (cradled) because of the sun glint (truly it wasn't shiny). I'm a lefty and he always seemed just ahead of my left shoulder. I ended up finding that if I carred it low in my right hand with the muzzle backwards I met my safety standards and could grab it quickly with my left hand at the grip and get into action effectively and quickly. Of course, this was for plains game and no dangerous game was involved.