I have a question, initiated because of a thread in the deer hunting forum about butchering deer. Several of the people who posted there indicated that they won't use just plain butcher paper to wrap their meat. If they do use butcher paper, they wrap the meat first in Saran wrap or something simlar; others use ziplock bags or vacuum seal their meat.

My wife and I normally fill up at least one 15-cubic foot freezer with game meat each year. In fact, we have three 15-cubic footers: one for Eileen's special stuff to use in her cooking writing, one for this season's meat, and one for the meat we'll eat through the year. This last freezer usually contains meat at least one year old, and sometimes 2-3 years old.

We do use a vaccum sealer on gamebirds and fish, freezing them before sealing, which prevents the problems inherent to too much moisture. We've found a vacuum sealer to work great for this purpose.

But we wrap big game meat in butcher paper only, wrapping tightly and using enough paper so there's a double layer over every part of the package. Even with 3-year-old packages we never have a problem with freezing burn--yet a lot of the people on the bucthering thread talked about freezer-burn when using butcher paper.

Are we just lucky? I can't imagine the expense, let alone the time, necessary to vaccuum seal or Saran wrap or ziplock several big game animals every year. That's one reason we use butcher paper. The other reason is that it's always worked fine.

So what are your experiences?

John,

We use both the vaccuum sealer thingy and butcher paper. Most of the times I am doing the work and I just wrap it. I would prefer to double wrap (2 sheets) but often I don't.

I find that with single wraping and with some double wrapping I can't get much more than a year out of the meat b4 some freezer burn begins to creep in.

Each Sept I go thru and clean out the freezer, both by giving away any extra meat and by actually cleaning it out. So I most likely can't be much help on this one.

Best to you and E for a super 2009!

Dober

As a kid and into my teens, my Dad always used butcher paper.We always lost some meat to freezer burn, esp. if it was in the freezer much over a year.So he switched to Ziploc bags.Thats all I use for big game now.Fish gets vacuum sealed.I've had stuff in the freezer for a couple years with no freezer burn.Small game and game birds are usually cooked by me or family shortly after harvest, so we don't usually freeze them.If I do, then I use Ziploc bags.My wife doesn't eat any of the small game, so when I harvest it a lot goes to friends or family.

As far as expense, I only kill 3 or so deer a year, so its not really that big of a deal.If I lived where you do, and could hunt elk, etc., then cost would probably come into play.

John,

Funny you should ask. A couple of weeks ago, we de-frosted/cleaned/organized our deep freeze, during what I thought was a cold snap(now it really is a cold snap!) While doing so, I found a couple packages of MT pronghorn steaks from last Sept, that were somehow missed. They were just well wrapped in butcher paper; no Saran Wrap, and were in perfect condition. Cooked them up for dinner, last Sunday, and they further reenforced the notion that antelope is one of our absolute favorite game meats...they tasted great!

While I personally vacuum most everything we process at home, it ain't the only way to fly. I find it is superior for fish and fowl, but plain old butcher paper works great on meat. Vacuum packed meat is handy, when taking some game on hunting/camping trips, the vacuum bags don't leak blood all over the cooler.

Jeff

Mr. Mule Deer;
We use whatever commercial grade paper we can buy off of the folks who made our sausage, I just checked the 2 rolls in the pantry and the tags says �McNairn Poly Paper�.

The meat is wrapped in that paper as you described. Our custom is to label each package with the animal, year and shooter, as part of our family tradition is to thank whoever pulled the trigger for supper. They also get a double vote if we come to an impasse on what the meat is being made into for that meal.

On a good year like this was, the girls and I have a large (20cu�?) freezer pretty packed and sometimes packages get shuffled to the bottom accidentally. I recall finding a moose roast that was 3 years old that had no freezer burn at all and tasted no different than when it was in for 6 months. Packages of deer meat sometimes end up being in there for at least a year and a half with no apparent negative result that we can see.

Anyway, sorry for being longwinded as usual, but to answer your question, our experience seems to be the same as yours with regard to freezer burn.

I should also note that while I resemble a coyote in what table fair I�ll attempt to consume, my wife and our girls are much less adventurous eaters. If freezer burn was detected, the cook for half the week- me � would be "informed".

Happy New Year to you and yours John,
Dwayne

IMHO, it's all in the "wrap," meaning if there's no air gaps between meat and paper, wrap, or bag, it probably doesn't matter much which method's used. I feel I can get fewer gaps using plastic wrap and then freezer paper so that's what I do. May not be any truth to it, but it makes me sleep better at night.

I'll have to check out that other thread.

I wrap mine in plastic wrap and then butcher paper. I have not had any problems, including meat that was 2-3 years old. However, that's about the only way I've ever done it, so I don't have much to compare it to.

I do know that a vacuum sealer is really nice for fish, but it is a ton of work.

In my limited wraping experience I have gone to plastic wrap in conjunction with freezer paper. In hind sight I think the plastic is covering my thriftyness of paper useage ( not double coverage)and poor folds on ends. Used to use paper only and did have some packages that showed no freezer burn after 2-3 years. Makes a person wander if its all in the wrapping or maybe where in the freezer it located.

I have been using pint and quart plastic bags that require a twist tie to close for years (I just bought 3000 more) then wrap in frezzer paper. dYou can remove the air better with these than with zip locks. Works for me.

I put my fish in plastic containers filled with water. They come out still quivering, well fresh anyhow.

Its all about removing the air--more than what it is in.

If small game gets a little old or some frezzer burn, I boil it in water till tender, salt and pepper to taste and eat it like cold chicken. Actually that is now my prefered method for squirrels now.

If large game meat gets a little old or frezzer burnt, it goes into the crock pot with an onion and a can of cream of mushroom soup.

Don't throw much out around here and the dog only got table scraps--currently no dog, so no table scraps.
JMHO
Tim

We have used the Saran wrap with butcher paper over it for several years. I think as others have mentioned, it is easier to get a good seal with it.

The meat never used to last a season but the kids are grown now and I get to hunt more.

Thanks to all for your answers.

One thing I thought of after my first post was that we use chest freezers for our daily eatin' meat. These stay colder when opened, because the cold air stays in there, instead of falling out and being replaced by moister, warm air, which is what happens with upright freezers. Along with meat surfaces that aren't right against whatever wrapping is used, moisture causes freezer burn, because the moisture turns into ice on the surface of the frozen meat.

Our one upright freezer--the one for Eileen's special stuff--doesn't get opened nearly as often. Plus, she often does wrap the stuff that goes in there with Saran wrap AND burher paper, or vacuum seals it, because she knows it might have to last longer.

I know a lot of people prefer upright freezers for the convenince of finding stuff (which is why Eileen bought hers) but they aren't as good for keeping stuff long-term.

MD,
I'm like you, I use nothing but freezer wrap, and have had game meat stay perfectly fine for up to 3 years with no adverse effects. I agree that there is a lot to be said about the wrapping technique to make sure that the meat is tightly wrapped with no air pockets inside.

What he said.
I think you have to address what "feezer burn" is in order to come up with a deterent for it. My belief is that it's caused from air next to the meat drying the meat out. If you put a barrier between the meat and the air, you won't have freezer burn. Like using Chap Stick on your lips in the cold.
We bone our meat, so there are no protrusions to allow air pockets next to the meat, then use clingwrap and then freezer paper, and it doesn't burn. I've only seen meat freezer burn when it had air next to it.

Frostfree freezers have always had a reputation for causing meat to freezer burn more than conventional non-frostfree freezers, because they replace the air in the freezer regularly. Frostfree freezers were developed to keep people from having to de-ice their freezers, but they have the drawback of drying things out.

MD,
My parents and I have been doing just as you do for well over the 35 years that I can remember with very little freezer burn ever. Besides removing as much air when you wrap as others have stated, I think making sure you have at least two layers of paper over all of the meat is the key. The only time I've ever had a problem is when we've gotten sloppy with the wrapping and only covered portions of the package with just one layer of paper. One other thing that I've always wondered about that could have an effect is whether or not your freezer is "Frost-free" or not. The frostless freezers act as dehumidifiers (I think) and might effect how much freezer burn you get.
Test

Bulletbutt,

Exactly right on both counts. Freezer burn is indeed caused by meat contacting air. We do the same thing with our meat: bone it out so it can be wrapped smoothly and tightly.

Frost-free freezers will make freezer-burn even worse. This is part of the reason why the freezer compartment in most modern refrigerators is a bad place to store frozen meat. Not only are they commonly frost-free, but they're not nearly as cold as real freezer. Plus the air falls out of them when they're opened.

All of our big freezers are NOT frost-free.

One story we tel occasionally is how we once found a package of cow elk steak that somehow had hidden itself in our freezer for NINE years. (How it did that is something of a mystery.) It had a couple touches of freezer burn, maybe a cubic inch all together at the corners, but just cut those off and cooked it. It was fine....

Well, I put down a total of 14 animals this year, all of which I cut and wrapped myself. (I consider the meat cutting part of the hunting process and have only had a few animals commercially processed over the years all due to warm weather considerations.)I've been doing this for twenty years or so and average about 10 animals a years.

The above statement was so you would realize that I have some experience in processing wild game and I'm not just BSing.

Paper wrap on cut meat: I'm just not very good at it and so despite years of struggle and practice I went to vaccume sealing all my cut meat.I found that it was quicker for me to vaccume seal the meat. I also cook all my wild game as roasts or stews, as such I leave the meat in as large a piece as possible and this is generally irregular in shape and difficult to wrap without air gaps. I have friends that also process their own and wrap the meat and have mixed success with wrap. Tecnique seems to be everything.

Paper wrap in ground meat: I grind and make my own sausage. I wrap the one pound meat balls in plastic wrap and then wrap them in coated paper. This has prevented freezer burn even after several years in some cases. I think with ground meat you are able to get an air tight fit with the plastic and if you use good technique with the paper you have a very tough, air tight little package.

The wrapping technique that I use for ground meat and my friends use for all their cuts is the one on the back of the Reynolds butcher paper wrap box. In short, roll the paper down tight, and fold the remaining ends tight and tape. I've seen other folding patterns and tried a few but the one on the package seems to work the best. (Though not as good as vaccume sealing for irregular cuts.)

I buy or scrounge a roll of those bags you get in the produce section of the grocery store, and put all the meat in that, forcing all the air out of the plastic bag before twisting the top closed, then wrap it up good in freezer paper. We have good results with that on all our moose meat and venison. Game birds go in plastic freezer bags, but they usually get devoured pretty soon after harvest.

Been doing that for years, but we usually eat through a moose in a year, or several deer. Anything left over when the next years game is processed get thawed and made into sausages.

First off, Happy New Year to all, and all the very best everyone in the new year.

Mule Deer,

My experience has been similar to yours. Most of the game meat in my freezer's are wrapped in brown paper and most of the time there has been no freezer burn.

My game meat is sometimes commercially done and sometimes I do it, it depends on how my year is going wrt work.

I think someone hit it on the head in this thread regarding no airspace around the meat. I will take extra care with that in the future.

This may have been said already, so forgive me if that's the case. The easy way I have found to avoid freezer burn? Go to your local grocery and buy a roll of the plastic bags they use in the produce / bulk foods section. Meat goes into one of those, then butcher paper.

I have had meat in a freezer for 4-5 years come out in the same condition as when it went in. And the roll of bags are a lot cheaper than a vacuum sealer!

I appear to be in the minority here, because I find vacuum sealing meat and fish to be much easier and faster than wrapping it. I generally get at least two uses out of each bag, sometimes three -- on game meat. Fish taints the bags and they can't be cleaned to suit me, so fish bags only get one use. I don't mind the cost of the bags, because I like the result so much. I have eaten meat as old as six years without a problem.

I bought my Tilia Foodsaver Pro at Cabela's in 1992 -- when that could only mean I had gone to Sidney. Nebraska . I have run several truckloads of game and birds and boatloads of salmon, halibut and rockfish through it since then, and it's still working fine. Foodsavers were made in Italy in those days; they are made in China now. If you want the original Italian-made vacuum sealer -- buy a Vac-Magic, sources for which you can find with an Internet search. The Italians know a thing or two about food, and their food-handling equipment is among the best in the world.

My wife prefers upright freezers; I prefer chest freezers. So we have one of each . The fish and game lives in mine.

Dennis

Was taught to use two sheets and double wrap.

It works great.

We process tons of stuff on a regular basis and live on it through the winters. I find meat easy to deal with and far less inclined to freezerburn than fish. We often double wrap in heavy plastic and then wrap in plastic coated butcher paper.

We have also settled on a particular folding sequence to reduce air migration in the packaging. The plastic-wrapped item is centered in a piece of paper and the top edges are rolled down tightly to the meat. Each end is then folded to a point and the tips are folded DOWN and then the ends are folded UNDER the package and taped.

The folding creates as many air locks as possible and has made a significant difference, IOE.

A couple points about what causes freezerburn, too. The chest freezer is the only way to go for long term storage. But it has a potential issue. The top of the chest freezer and its gasket make a great air lock. The air in a just-closed freezer will start to cool and therefore shrink. Note the apparant vacuum the next time you open your chest freezer. Ours sucks the gasket down hard until the seal breaks.

The lower pressure in the freezer drops the vapor pressure of water a lot. I believe the boiling point of water in a vacuum is something like -66F. Ever wonder how freeze drying works?

Keeping the stuff very cold works better than almost cold. We always turn the freezer down to the lowest setting.

Freeze it fast to prevent the crystals from slow freezing which affect texture (more with delicates like fish).

Accept the fact some stuff is too delicate to store long. Halibut, black cod and salmon are bulletproof in the freezer, but lingcod and most rockfish is inedible at 6 months. The rest is somewhere in between.
art

I started out using a single layer of freezer paper and never had any problems if the meat was consumed in 12-15 months. Then I got a vacuum sealer and thought it would be the ticket. It was a PITA trying to get the moisture out prior to sealing, and some (even though I thought was dry) freezer burnt in a couple of months. This year I went back to freezer paper. Much more convienent, and plain works. When I know meat will be in the freezer for over a year, I usually have it made into hot dogs or some other sausage product because it stays better, and taste good.

Shootist, thats my system now as well. If you ask the guys in the produce section in most grocery stores, they will sell you a roll of them.

My neighbor cuts and wraps meat, he was a butcher for 26 years, and is now the meat manager for the entire NW division of a grocery store chain. He knows the business. The produce bag trick was something he's been doing a lot of years. Another thing he told me was to stick to freezer paper, and not butcher paper. And as has already been mentioned, use a real freezer, not a frost free one.

I gave up vacuum packing a long time ago. I never could vacuum seal meat and have it stay airtight for over 2 years. I wrecked a lot of meat that way, and went back to freezer paper, and double wrapping.

But as a rule, if I find meat in the freezer in the 2+ age range, it gets sent to my dads house and ground into sausage (he makes some good stuff) If I find meat old enough to have a Voter Registration card, I use it for trap bait in the winter.

Actually, what I use is freezer paper.

I've been using the Reynolds brand of freezer paper for many years, because that's what is normally sold in local Montana stores. When used to tightly double-wrap meat, it's kept the meat of various packages free of freezer burn for 3-4 years.

Thanks for all the information, guys. I found out what I wanted to know, and am now going to bow out of this thread.

Vacuum only for us. More work? naw. Been using them for 12 or so years. Never had trouble till our original Foodsaver started wearing out. We put a lot of pounds of game and sea food thru it before it wore out.
Bag material is pretty cheap at places like BJ's or Costco.

I posted this link on the other thread but I think its informative enough to warrant posting a second time: Freezer Burn

Although I know that frrezer burn is basically a result of the meat dehydrating during storage, I still find it amazing that this can happen when the water is in a deep frozen state.

Earlier in the thread, frost free freezers were mentioned. To be frost free they must dehumidify the air in the freezer compartment. Couple that with the fact that neither butchers paper nor the various plastic wraps/bags are made from a truely airtight material, and you can see how meat packages can start to dehyrate during storage, with the plastic bags used in vac-packers being the exception...

I typically use the double wrap of butcher paper, rarely get some freezer burn, but when it does, it is usually because of a poor wrap job on my part

I wrap with 2 layers of saran and then vacuum pack. This stops the moisture migration. On the food/cooking forum, somebody mentioned to use a baggie without the tie. I will try this. When useing the Vac., in the freezer, You may have to periodically check to see if the package has been punctured. Other than that, I have not used wrapping paper since the vacuum sealer and do not intend to. This process is efficient and works very well. Simply, Wraping paper cannot seal as well as a vacuum seal and to Me, it is a lot less work.

I use saran wrap + freezer paper.


My opinion though is that it has more to do with the number of times the door is opened (air exchange) than with packaging technique.

we have a dedicated meat freezer (15 cu-ft) that usually has 500+ pounds of boneless meat in it - and nothing else. It only gets opened to grab a package.

I've had meat 3-4YO that was no different than 4 months old.

oh, and auto defrost is poison (for the same reasons).

YMMV.

Could be Lefty,never thought of that. I think that the saran gives you a very good primary seal. Close to the skin and, once frozen, it would be hard for air to attack

I've used both paper and the vaccum bags in the Food Saver. Both have given fine reults, I've never had freezer burned meat in either.

I admit and like Dennis have evolved to using just the vacuum sealer. Part of it is the ease/speed of use and my slight laziness as I grow older. But part of it is because my lovely wife didn't grow up processing her own meat as I did and it's much easier for her to use the Food Saver while I butcher. Makes the whole process smoother and more enjoyable (grin) for both of us.

I have to admit though $$ is the only reason I can find to ever want to use paper anymore. The vacuum sealers are so quick and take out any doubt of air ever reaching the meat. If the cost ratio was closer I would see no reason to ever buy another single peeice of butcher paper. JMHO.

Bill

oh how i wish that i had a need for 3 reezers to hold all my game meat...
for me, one modest sizedchest freezer holds everything... we generally only put up half a beef at a time and that's in the spring... 2 or 3 deer in the fall and i've usually got room in thr freezer...

we seldom keep meat for a year... double wrapped meat has always been fine for us....

i use plastic wrap cause i aint very good at getting a good seal with just the paper all the time.....the plastic wrap is easy to get sealed right and lets me sleep better......if i was better with just the paper i would prolly skip the wrap....

We just use the quart and gallon freezer bags but use cheap water to fill the bag and take the air out. Very seldom have one leak but use news paper between the layers of packages just in case and have plenty of freezer space.

I use plastic wrap and butcher paper for game meat.

For fish I use a commercial vacuum sealer.

I also can both game and salmon.

I'm AR about meat packaging. For deer, I quarter out the meat after the hunt and then wrap the heck out of it with Saran Wrap and then double Reynolds Freezer Paper. We have a frost-free upright freezer...and I've had no problems with meat up to 2 years old. I take quarters out as I need them and grind into burger or make sausage.

Wow:

I have 4 kids. We kill a 4-H pig every summer.

The meat is gone by April (168 pounds over 8 months = 21 pounds a month).

We also eat 4 whole turkeys each year plus whatever I bring home.

Freezer burn is NOT an issue.

BMT

Also known as a drugstore wrap.

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/fnw613.htm

Any game meat that i usually get per season gone before a year is up so i really cant comment on freezer burn. My butcher uses wax paper and only one layer and i have never gotten any freezer burnt meat. This year i used a different butcher and he wrapped, the meat in saran wrap and then butcher paper, but he is not a professional butcher while the other guy is.

I really make an effort to eat my wild game meat before a year as it seems to be a lot better in texture and taste.

If wrapping tightly and not having a frost free freezer you can be fine for a long time. I hate frost free freezers.

Even with vac seal a frost free freezer will eventually ruin the meat due to its constant freeze thaw cycles. Its less likely, and takes longer than wrapped meat but it will kill it.

As long as non frost free freezers are available I'll buy them only.

I don't know the technology about it,but I have use the Reynolds freezer paper for +40 yars and my parents used it when I was young. Can't say I ever experienced freezer burn.
I don't use anyhing special but have always used what is clled the butcher wrap , which is putting themeat at the corner of the paper and wrapping diagaonally.

I have never had frost free freezer though

Frost free also tore up my capes quicker than normal when I was still full time taxidermy! Of course they were not wrapped or vac sealed.

I married a Yankee that never hunted, fished, or saw wild game being processed. I use a vacuum sealer & she helps grind & package. I am frequently reminded that she missed the vow about Get Gory when we were married 40 years ago.

saddlesore,

That's exactly how I learned to do it many years ago, and have never had any problem with freezer burn. We must have gone to the same freezing school!

The processor we have used for years couldn't take my hogs from this past week, so I scrambled for an option. Found another that is open year round, makes their own sausage and has their own smokehouse on site. I was impressed....they don't vacuum pack, they wrap in freezer paper. I'll have a fair comparison soon.

We double wrap in butcher paper...I just gave away the last of a 3 year Bison and it was good..I think it is best to eat all your game within 18 months however, as in our case its a never ending replacement and I just don't hunt until its used up these days. We probably eat 3 or 4 deer a year but that is being eaten by my daughters family also..Just myself and my wife would be hard pressed to eat 2 deer a year these days..My family actually prefers deer to elk or any other wild meat.

John,
I buy my freezer wrap and plastic wrap from a nearby shop that also supplies resturants in the area. Seems like last year I paid approx 30.00 for a roll of plastic wrap 20" wide about 6" dia. Also about the same for a equal amount of freezer paper.
I double wrap everything,Plastic and paper and after three years it is good as new. Also the wide wrapping gives good coverage and easy tight wrapping.
My wife at the urgeing of a friend bought me a vacuum sealer and I have to say the jury is still out on it. The bags are much more costly than the bulk wrap and I have seen some burn with it. In fairness to the sealer I saw some of the meat that I raise on a meatsaw and any sharp bone may punchure the bags where double wraping may insure no air.
I butcher 2 hogs, 4-6 sheep, and 2-5 deer a year for the last 20 years so have opinons on what works.
If you aren't buying paper from a commercial source you are paying too much for a smaller sized paper/wrap.

Ed

I've spent my life in the restaurant business and am very familiar with the causes and prevention of freezer burn:

Primary Causes: Air penetration and temperature fluctuations

What is it: Water molecules working their way to the surface and freezing. As the water molecules work their way out and freeze, it "dries" the meat, makes it tough, burns the surface, and hence makes it taste like crap.

Prevention:

1. Get as much air out of the packaging as possible. Multiple layers of wrap is far less important than the quality of the first layer. Again, the primary objective is eliminating air from the packaging and/or preventing air from entering the package.

2. Minimize temperature fluctuations in the freezer. The biggest culprit is the defrost cycle. Occasionally "Manually" defrost your freezer. Automatic defrost cycles happen too often, and hence, causes frequent temperature fluctuations. This is a much bigger culprit than occasionally opening the door to get something out (much less an issue than in restuarants where the walk-in door is openend repeatedely throughout the day). Defrost only when you have to and take the unit off of the auto mode if possible.

3. Ensure adequate air flow in your freezer. If you use a chest freezer like I do, put a small rack on the bottom so that meats are not on the bottom of the freezer. Allow air flow around the entire cabinet (bottom, sides, and top). The more air flow you have, the more consistent the temperature will remain.

Hope this helps!

I was waiting to see if one person was going to describe the method of wrapping I've been using for years..........

I've wrapped it all with that method, less fish, and never had a problem once, with meat lasting as much as 5 years.

I'm itching to get another vac system, since the ex made off with the last one, but it was kind of on the slow side.... Excellent for fish though.

I spent the better part of my youth digging in a chest freezer and swore I'd never own one of my own. So far I've managed to adhere to that rule and don't see it changing anytime soon................grin.

Yep, we do the "corner" wrap as well, but we have ALWAYS used cling wrap under the butcher paper. We get the bulk rolls from Sam's Club. We've had deer in the freezer for several years that will get buried occasionally and we'll get it out and it's just fine. I've never NOT used cling wrap.

I've lost meat from saran wrapped meat, vaccuum sealed meat, and paper wrapped meat. I have to agree it's all in the seal. The worst I ever had was from my 2005 AR buck I shot. I was visiting my mom for Thanksgiving, and got to hunt on my cousin's farm where I shot a nice little 8 point. I took the meat to the local butcher shop in town, and over paid them. I ended up paying them $97 for the deer to be processed and wrapped. Three months later, I PCS'ed from MT to MS. I stopped at my mom's to pick up some of the meat, only to find over half of it freezer burned. This was only three months after it was picked up and supposidly
"professionally processed".

Growing up, my dad always processed our meat when we shot a deer. He always wrapped it up in freezer paper. I can recall some meat getting freezer burn, but it was usually a package we forgot about and found 2 years later.

Same way we wrap meat. I figure the plastic makes the seal and the freezer paper is mostly to protect the plastic from holes and tears.

While doing a chest freezer clean out this fall I found some wayward deer steaks from 2001! I figured that I would chop them up and feed it to the dogs. Half the steaks were from a mule deer that was wrapped in plastic plus butcher paper. The other half were from a whitetail wrapped in just butcher paper. I was amazed at the condition of the mule deer steaks. I thought about eating them myself. Hardly any signs of freezer burn at all. The whitetail steaks were pretty much completely covered with freezer burn. I'd of had to be pretty hungry to even think about eating them, although the dogs didn't seem to mind. It convinced me that plastic is pretty cheap insurance against freezer burn.

I had a very disappointing experience last year. I shot a bull in January in CO, quartered it, cooled it (not hard!), and took it home in a cooler in four big pieces plus two, long thick backstraps.

I was going to be very busy the next four days so brought it to a local butcher shop to have the quarters processed in the cuts and burger we wanted. But the backstraps were going home with me.

I cut them in about four lb. chunks, wrapped then tight in wax paper and double wrapped in regular butcher paper. They then went in our upright freezer in our garage. Not one escaped freezer burn, bad freezer burn, and within months. Each piece had to have the burned meat carved off of it before we could use it. I've not experienced this before and don't quite know what went wrong. The freezer was gone into only once or twice a week. I've gone this route with elk, deer, pheasants, etc. for years and at most have had small spots of freezer burn after a year and a half.

What went wrong?

My son and I both use a vacuum sealer. I just bought one to replace the last. From now on I'll only buy one with a separate "seal only" capability. The new one has it and I find it much better if you make bags from a roll.

My friend has prepared and packaged meat for many years and has just retired from commercial work. Each piece is vaccum packed and wrapped in freezer paper. According to Ken, this maximizes the probability that the piece will be in best condition and free from burn. I do not know of any piece so treated that burned within a three year period. Bones were not removed, other than for burger meat.

deer and elk are vacuum packed. i've found some 4-5 years old and it was still great. fish fillets i place in a zip bag filled with water - squeeze out the air. squirrels and duck breasts also in water filled zip bag. shrimp treated just like fish.

Long time reader, but hardly ever poster.
Figgered' I'd add my two cents

Lots of good advice on wrapping and packaging has been already posted but I'll add a couple of ideas worthy of consideration.

1. No matter what method you use for wrapping, it will make a difference in the quality of frozen meat, with regards to how fast it freezes. IE: Flash Freezing. The quicker a piece of meat or fish freezes the better. It helps to prevent the formation of ice crystals in the meat which wiil degrade the end product once it is thawed. All of the juice that you see when thawing something is caused by the formation of ice crystals bursting the cells of tissues. Busted cells = juice = dryer meat/fish. Fish is far more susceptible to degrading from slow freezing and the formation of ice crystals than meat is. The whole revolution in store bought frozen foods was founded on this principle (flash freezing) by Birdseye. Idealy, meat/fish should be as cold as possible before puuting it into the freezer. Put it in the fridge or an ice chest, whatever to get it as near as possible to 32 degrees before starting to freeze it. Then place it in a single layer and allow as much airspace as posible to help freeze it fast as posible. An upright freezer with racks works really good for this. Idealy, it should get rock hard in two to three hours.

2. Store your frozen meat in cardboard boxes or plastic tubs in the freezer. By separting and organizing what you have it makes it easier to find and prevents the packages from being tossed around and then tearing or busting the airtight seal. Vacuum bags bust fairly easy, butcher paper - not so much. Non-frost-free chest freezers are best for long term storage but, if you only have an upright or frost-free freezer, putting your items in a tightly packed carboard box will prevent freezer burn from the freeze/thaw cycles.

I've been a hunter and fisherman all of my life and have at one time or another have tried just about every method of packing and freezing you can imagine. What's worked best for me is:

For meat: Either wrapped in plastic wrap and then butcher paper, double wrapped in butcher paper, or vacuum packed. Any of these methods will work if you do it right.

For fish: Vacuum packed and flash frozen is the absolute best. Like JB said, freezing your fish first then vacuum packing avoids the issues with water and sealing. If you dry your fish with lots of paper towels and use a long enough bag this will also avoid the moisture/sealing problem and will allow a slightly tighter vacuum pack. Both methods work.

For birds: Ziploc bags or milk cartons or plastic containers and fill with water to seal out any air.

The key in any of these methods is getting all of the air away from the surface of whatever you freezing and keeping it away. Freezer burn is essentially oxidation just like rust on steel. Keep the oxygen away from it and freezer burn is eliminated. PACK IT TIGHT AND SEAL IT.

I realize if your butchering an elk or moose it's very difficult to have enough room to freeze it in a single layer. Sometimes I pack, wrap, freeze in stages to try and not dump everything in the freezer at one time. With deer and fish it's a little more practical. Flash freezing does make a difference so if possible give it a try.

My two cents and a little food for thought.

You shouldn't wait so long between posts. That's alot of good info you've shared.

Well since I got a good response to my last post (Thank you Bulletbutt) I'll share another one. A little bit off topic - but were still talking about frozen food.

If your thawing out a package of frozen meat/fish that isn't too thick, an inch or so, and want to have thawed for dinner in a relatively short time try this.

Microwave on a very low power setting until it is starting to get a little less than rock hard. My current microwave has a max power of 10 and I use a power setting of 2 for thawing. The automatic defrost setting on my microwave does'nt work worth a schit so I do it manually. Three or four minutes on power setting 2 works about right. Don't thaw it out all the way. The problem I've had with every microwave I've owned is that the meat/fish will start to cook on the edges if you try and completely thaw it. Once it gets to where you can bend it but it is still slightly frozen, place it in a large cast iron or thick aluminium frying pan. DON'T put it on the stove with heat, just let it sit in the pan and turn it over after one side thaws.

It works on the principle of heat/cold transfer. Iron, steel or aluminium tranfers heat or cold faster than air.

Thawing a piece of meat or fish this way you can have it ready to cook in ahout 30 to 45 minutes without cooking the edges or without taking up the whole sink to thaw it in water and drowning it and losing flavor.

If you don't microwave it first, it will still thaw in about 1/3 the time it will take just sitting it out on the counter. Frozen shrimp will thaw out in about 30 minutes if you only do one layer (line the pan with foil, turn once). This also works great to bring a refrigerated steak or whatever to room tempature before cooking. Line a pan with foil, season your steak, set it in there for 20 minutes, turning once, and voila, room tempature seasoned steak ready to cook. (Room tempature meat avoids the purple in the middle) I know most of you know this, but I had to had to start learning somewhere.

I'm sure some of you reading this already know about these tricks. There not my original ideas. They used to sell a magic metal thawing device in an infomercial on tv for about 20 bucks. The frying pan you have in your kitchen works just as good.

I am not a gunwriter or the greatest hunter of game but:

I AM A DAMN GOOD COOK (with a warped sense of humor)

fish head

I've got to put my two cents in, too. (If someone's already mentioned this, I missed it.) re freezer burn, one thing that really helps is having a chest freezer rather than upright. Put a freezer thermometer in each, then leave the door open and see how long it takes for the temp to rise. I tested that out years ago when I was writing a fish cookbook; the upright drops cold out the door immediately. It takes many minutes--even in summer--for the temp to start rising in a chest freezer.
The result is less up and down of temps; less possibility of freezer burn.
For the record, muledeer and I have 'lost' steaks from some animals in the freezer, and when organizing again pre-rifle season, they surface. (There was this one cow elk, that had a real penchant for doing that. Year after year. I guess it was a mistake to dub her Elvira. I know the last piece that surfaced was close to 10 years old.) We've 'found' meat that's 5, 6 7 years old, and with double wrapping carefully with freezer paper, which is all we do, we have to trim an edge here and there. (freezerburn)
mizwhitetail

I will add a little something to what mizwhitetail wrote, which related to what fish head wrote:

We have two main chest freezers. What we kill this year goes into one that is separated by boxes into various catagories, and is generally kept very full. That meat is generally "saved" for next year's consumption, so rarely gets disturbed. It is also always quick-frozen by scattering new packages among the frozen ones.

Even the meat (and fish and birds) that go into our everyday freezer are separated by boxes, and so rarely bashed about. We just take a package of burger or steak off the top, instead of stirring it up, looking for steak or pheasant or fish. This keeps the seals on our wrapping (of whatever type) very tight.

Which is pretty much what fish head is talking about. Wrap packages tightly, freeze them quickly, don't stir them up, and keep them well-frozen, and what's inside will last a long time.

This is a little off subject, but I'm trying something new to me and I'll share it. Maybe some of you have done it, or would want to try it.
Some time ago I read something by a "chef" that interested me: He said to let steak sit in the refrigerator a few days after it's thawed, allowing the blood to drain away from the meat. He said it'll tenderize the meat, more so than if it just sat there in its juices.
I remember he said not to use a metal pan or rack for the meat to sit on, and I finally devised a rack out of plastic to fit in the bottom of a plastic Rubbermaid container with a snap on lid. It looks like it will allow the blood to drain off the meat really well.
Of course, as soon as I made one, I found a new Rubbermaid "Produce Saver" in the grocery store that comes with a rack and is just right for the amount of meat I'm dealing with. They hold 5 cups and have a green lid, if you go looking for one.
I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this. Do you think it would work, or just make for dryer meat?

B2T

Hmm. I haven't heard of that one, but meat does age even after it's been frozen, if we leave it in the refrigerator for a few days. There's no reason it shouldn't, because the same enzymes are present.

We do tend to drain meat of the extra blood if we do that, and then dry it further before cooking, which results in a better browning on the outside. But I have no idea if leaving it in the blood has any effect on tenderness. I'll have to ask mizwhitetail: She has all the latest meat research in her files, and might have seen something on that.

Re: the chef who says meat will age in the fridge after being thawed, if drained. The only caveat would be that it wasn't frozen in rigor. And I'm sure the chef would say the same thing since the good beef processors would never butcher and freeze beef while it's in rigor. (Cheap beef may be tough for other reasons, but not that.) On the other hand, I've heard some stories about guys processing and freezing their game animals too soon (while the carcass was still in rigor) and all the scientific journals say there's no way to cure that. Not fridge aging after thawing, not long slow cooking. It's stays pretty tough when you do that.
One of my editors admits he did it last fall with a young cow elk. He was so excited that he'd gotten an elk close to home without having to work as hard as he usually does, that he decided to butcher it next day. He's been butchering his own animals for years, and he knows it's not as tender as it should be, and he knew why it wasn't when he told me the story.
mizwhitetail

Well, if my new method shows any promise, I will post it. I'm skeptical of improving game meat by taking the juices out of it, but if it makes it more tender that will be good to know.

Venison ages WELL if kept at about 34 degrees for at least 16 days, and probably much longer. This is called "dry aging," I think. The finest beef is aged for a couple of months (saw this on "Best Steak" on the Travel Channel TV.)

But...you don't cut it in steaks until you're ready to eat it. Why this is, I don't know. The best venison I've ever eaten in my life was aged about 20 days, and it was excellent. I'm not a deer fan, either.

It is, I think, a process where the enzimes break down and it's kept in a limbo bordering on decay. Same with cured ham, too...it's better after a couple of years.

The venison was extremely tender and crusty and black on the outside, just cut it away. The meat smelled fine and fresh. It can grow a green mold on it, but you just wipe it off and eat it so long as it doesn't smell decayed.

Gravity will drain the blood out in the fridge, just put something to catch it beneath the meat and don't place it so no dripping from above gets on it.

I don't think it will age properly if frozen, but if you have a lot of meat, what choice? Just put some back for dry aging.

Hey, fish head here again

I'll throw in a couple of more opinions on the last few posts.

With regards to aging, blood in the meat, tender vs not, etc.

Gene L has it right when he's talking about "dry aged beef" . It is a method that fine steakhouses use to get the most tender, tasty steaks.

Aging after an animal is hung, cut, wrapped and frozen it's a different story. IMHO, there is a different set of conditions in a fridge once meat is thawed, especially if it has been cut into steaks.

To properly age meat past 4 or 5 or 6 days, it must hung whole or in quarters in an optimal enviroment. Tempature, humidity, air circulation, everything must be exactly right. A piece of meat/steak left in a fridge for a couple of weeks will certainly be rancid. I realize Bulletbutt and Gene L are'nt talking about aging for weeks, but rather just a few days. IMHO, I will venture a guess that leaving in the fridge for a couple of more days won't result in a more tender piece of meat. It will be interesting to hear your results. I've never tried it, although I do know that buying a beef steak or pork chop from the store and leaving in the fridge for more than a few days usually winds up not with it not being as tasty as fresh. Too long in the fridge and it gets tossed.

In my younger days I came up with the bright idea of trying to age some deer quarters in an old fridge. Sounded good, seemed like the right thing to do. After about 5 or 6 days it started smelling a little funny. We cut it up and wrapped it anyway, and let's just say it was slightly "gamey" (understatement). I found out from that experience it's better to just let hang in the garage for a couple of days. A refridgerator is just not the right enviroment for aging meat wether it's fresh or frozen and thawed. Too much humidity and poor air ciculation makes for a bad piece of meat.

I'm not trying to bash your ideas, I'm just relaying my personal experiences. So, no offense, OK?

Tender and juicy vs tender and dry?

More to follow, I gotta go walk the dog. He's driving me nuts.

fish head

Sorry, but meat doesn't have to be kept in the carcass or quarters to age.

This is was discussed on another thread (I think in "General Hunting") not too long ago. I brought up a test mizwhitetail and I did with a big, old bull elk I killed last November. The shoulders, hindquarters, backstraps, filets, neck meat were all cut off the carcass after three days of the bull hanging in the shop of the ranch where it was killed. The weather was still perfect for aging when I brought it home, so we kept the pieces in our garage/shop.

After a four days (a week since he'd been killed) we decided to see how the meat was doing, so cut off maybe 15 inches of one of the backstraps, then brought it inside and cooked a couple of 1" steaks from it. They were still kind of chewy, so we left the rest of the chunk in the refrigerator, inside a plastic bag. Every day we'd cut another chunk off and eat it, and it definitely became more tender for another week. At that point the elk had been aging for over two weeks total, and it was definitely time to butcher, so we did it. He isn't the most tender elk in the world, but he's pretty darn chewable--and the meat in the shop aged at just the same apparent rate as the mat in our refrigerator.

We have also performed essentially the same experiment with steaks taken out of the freezer. They do get more tender as they sit in the refrigerator, though we haven't drained all the liquid off them.

And no, aging doesn't have to be totally controlled, as in a walk-in cooler kept at 34 degrees. The temperature can be up to 50 degrees or even a little more. Warmer temperatures just accelerate the aging process--though obviously the meat can't be kept as long as when the temperature never gets above 40.

Obviously some of the people posting here don't know where the original question came from, and why. My wife Eileen (mizwhitetail) just published the latest of her 8 game cookbooks, SLICE OF THE WILD, which deals with everything from the moment of the shot to recipes. It includesncluding field care, aging the meat, butchering for your specific purposes, and recipes. Included is all the latest meat science from various sources.

The reviews so far (the book has only been out a month) are saying that it may be the best book yet on the topic of big game meat, partly because it includes the science, instead of speculation. I would suggest that those who are speculating about all this stuff could read all about aging and other aspects of meat in the book.

I started this thread on freezer-burn because we have never had a problem with it. We live off game, with three 15-cubic-foot freezers (two chest and one upright) that by the end of each fall are all filled with big game, birds and fish. We do vacuum-pack some stuff (especially birds and fish) but we only use common freezer paper on big game, the kind that's plastic-coated on one side, and simply double-wrap tightly. We have never had any problem with freezer-burn in over 25 years of doing it this way, even ith meat that's a couple of years old, so I was curious about why and when freezer-burn might be happening with other folks' meat. This started several months ago, so I was kind of surprised to see this thread revived in the past week. Thanks again for your responses.

OK, nuff said. I guess I should buy the book.

I've noticed that venison that has been hung in the garage for a week, butchered, frozen, then thawed and refrigerated for a few days is slightly more tender and flavorful than meat which underwent the same process, but was not refrigerated.

It's an interesting subject to me. It's alot easier to understand the whats-and-whys when there are good reference materials out there like Eileen's book. I found it very interesting, and plan to give copies of it as gifts to my friends.
Every once in a while something like this thread will come up, and some really good info come out. It's not an argument, it's sharing experiences. I appreciate the views...and the book.

MY FELLINGS ARE HURT !

Cold shoulder, add a few flames, I think I'm suffering from " freezer burn".

Didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings!

...but every time one of these threads starts, Eileen or I end up practically writing the book all over again, because the same misconceptions come up every time. Instead of doing it again, I suggested a more expensive (but less time-consuming) way of getting the best current info.

I hope I didn't hurt your feelings...you were a big part of the "really good info" I referred to above!

JB; You are expensive, but it's money well spent. I just ordered two more copies of the book for gifts to friends.

We got the order and the books will be on their way! Thanks again.

I was watching one of the TV chefs a couple of months back and he preached this as being very important. He liked to defrost beef 36 hours ahead of time to let it drain and "set"...He didn't mention anything about flavour, but apparently a "dry" steak fry's a lot more consistantly than one running with blood/juice. He also advised removing the steaks from the fridge an hour or so before hand and allowing them to come up to room temp, by which he meant a cool storage type room rather than a warm kitchen. Again this was more to do with the cooking side than "aging" or flavour.

fish head,

A fridge works fine for hanging game, and certainly beats racing the warm weather to get a carcass butchered. Below is a Roe carcass hanging in a fridge in my shed.



That fridge is just big enough for two Roe or one 80lb Fallow pricket carcass. A lot of stalkers over here use double door coke chillers and while ideal for 4 roe, they are a bit lacking in height internally for anything bigger than a Fallow pricket.

I'm looking for a larger unit myself, but I don't have the space nor the ��� for a proper walk-in chiller.

I generally hang my carcasses about 10 to 14 days with the temp set just above freezing. The important thing abut this fridge is that it has a built in fan to circulate the air, and this runs constantly as long as the door is shut.

Good air circulation is cruial and for best results the carcasses must have space around them to allow the air to circulate.

The other thing is that carcass must be in good condition when it goes in..if you gut shoot a beast, drag it through a swamp after doing the gralloch and then transport it home over the hood of your car, don't be surprise if the meat is poor quality.

Regards,

Peter

JB, Mizwhitetail, and Bulletbutt

I apoligize for hijacking your thread. I was just trying to join in on the conversation.

JB, you are the last person I would ever want to disagree with, or get in a pizzin' contest with, over any subject on the Fire. I sincerely have nothing but respect for all of your contributions here. My experience with big game and hunting, pales in comparison to you and your wife. I value your opinions more than my own and I was unaware of some of your findings as posted above.

I'm OK now, my feelings have recovered. I just wanted to add a little humor in the feelings, cold shoulder, flames, freezer burn post. I thought it was funny.

Bulletbutt, no problems on my end here.

fish head

fish head,

It was funny!

One of the things that makes this forum great is everybody chiming in. But sometimes we're going over the same ground that another thread (either here or elsewhere on the Campfire) has already covered. That was the primary point I wanted to make.

Good hunting--and eating!

Well, to continue to beat a dead horse, when you age it in the bag, it's wet aging, and it's pretty good. When you age it in the air (cold air but not freezing) it's dry aging. And to dry age, you can't steak it out. Or shouldn't. Anyway, the black crust that builds up takes away some meat so your steaks that started out an inch end up about 3/4".

Here's a link for dry aging beef. I think the process is the same for venison, at least the venison I ate. http://www.askthemeatman.com/is_it_possible_to_dry_age_beef_at_home.htm

Good eating and good hunting. Ms. Deer, I will definitely buy your book although my larder of game is paltry indeed. I just hope you have a squirrel recipe.

JB

Again, I'm going off topic but I know you will find my post here.

Thanks for the reply. As far as good hunting and eating goes, I'm currently eating one of the tenderest, mildest flavored, tasty mule deer I've ever had. I got him late sept. in Utah on a muzzleloader hunt during less than ideal conditions. Daytime temps were in the upper 70's, nights were OK, but with proper care I got him home in excellent condition, aged it, butchered it and vacuum packed it. I'm not a total newb. Eatin's real good on my end.

It was a 2 1/2 year old 3x3 that was my first muzzleloader buck. I saw bigger, pulled the hammer back on a 4X4 three times, but never had the right shot (too far, running behind bushes, and again too far). Next to the last day I decided to bring home some meat when the right opportunity presented itself. Good decision on my part. So far, one for one with the muzzleloader.

I just moved to Colorado last year after spending 14 years in Anchorage. Last fall was my first chance to hunt in the lower 48 in a long time. Muzzleloaders were never a great option for Alaska - no seasons (other than a very few special hunts) long shots, BIG GAME, only one shot, bears, etc.. It just always made more sense to carry my model 70 .300 win mag.

Best wishes,

fish head

fish head,

Congrats on your muzzleloader deer! Personally, for eating meat, Eileen and I both prefer a 3x3 (which is usually a 2-1/2 year old) muley buck to any other. They have a lot more meat than a forkhorn (1-1/2 year old) and, and it is still tender and has even better flavor. In fact the best mule deer we ever put in the freezer was a 3x3 that Eileen got one year just at the very beginning of the rut. He was so good that his meat disappeared from the freezer long before it should have.

I can see how a muzzleloader would be a problem in Alaska. We don't have a special MZ season here, but they are the only rifle allowed in certain areas next to towns, which is where I end up using one now and then.

Where did you move to in Colorado? It's a great hunting state. I've hunted pronghorn, whitetails, mule deer and elk there and always had a great time. Some parts are a little too crowded for me, but then again many parts aren't.

Best,
John

JB

Fort Collins is where home is now. Urban, but not too big. My backyard faces the foothills of the Rockies so in some ways it's like Anchorage. Not as pretty though.

Next year I'll be hunting Wyoming deer rifle season and the following year it will be Colorado. Probably deer and elk. I still have not had time to properly scout a good area for Colorado so I'm putting it off for a year.

In wyoming I'm hunting an area that my huntin' bud has been to before. It has taken two preference points to get drawn for that area as a non-resident. It should be a real good hunt.

Best wishes and good hunting to you too.

fish head

A big problem I have is that my group hunts elk in New Mexico in Dec. and Jan.. We made the mistake the first year of handing our cows in the meat shed overnight. Well, we had to transport back 3 skinned elk in the stretched pose. Good thing we had a crewcab with an 8 foot box! We got a lot of stares driving thru Kansas City!
It can be very cold in New Mexico that time of year and equally cold in Minnesota. So, we now must skin and debone our elk within the same day. So the animal may not even get into full rigor by the time we are deboning it. Consequently I let the meat thaw in the refrigerator for at least a day. I just made an elk post roast today after it sat for 36 hours in the frig, in its "juices". Ten hours in the crock pot on the high and then temp shift setting yielded a very tender meal. I used golden mushroom soup after I browned all sides. The one previous was with onion soup mix.
Wild game on the grill must be watched carefully because there is a short window between tasty and jerky.
I should get the book as JB and MizWT bring a lot of credibility and hard work to our sport.