I know Dogzapper you had a write up years back in Varmint Hunter. Did your wife rack up many deer with it? An AI right?

Pros/cons? Brass choice? What accuracy can be had w/o turning/sorting?

Lastly, would a Ballistic Tip, Accubond, or TSX be a favorite bullet on deer in 25 cal?

Thanks.

Ain't complicated, a shorter 257 Roberts that fits nicely and you don't have to trim brass.

Put a good bullet where it belongs.

That said you'll get paragraphs.

I use two, neither an AI. I use plain old cup and core bullets for deer with them, 100 Hornady with the Ruger and either the 87 Speer Hot Core or 100 Speer Hot Core with the 1-14 twist Savage M99. At 2800-2900 fps I don't see a need for the premiums. The Accubond is pretty long and doesn't shoot well out of my .257 Roberts so I haven't tried it in the slower 250 yet. The 100 TSX shoots very well out of the Ruger, just don't see the need for it on deer. 75 Sierra hp is very accurate with either for varmints. The Ruger is much easier on brass. Not quite paragraphs, but close

My field experience with the 250-3000 has been positive. Ruger M77 with Leupold M8 4x. All factory loads and I've killed from woodchuck to black bear.

Short one here

100 grn TSX's in my AI at 3250+ fps will work on anything I choose to point it at in the Southeast.........

Dad's old 99 "doesn't go BANG! It goes "MEAT!" Still does with 87gr Hot-cores. M700 and Dakota 76 get 100gr Hornadys or ballistic tips. Very accurate, and one shot kills without exception. 75gr V-max at 3415fps from the M700 are devasting on groundhogs. Gonna try the .250AI M70 with 100gr BTs this year. Expect no surprises, just meat. If the deer show up.

I hunted for a year with a M700 classic in 250-3000. Used 120r Speer at 2,550 fps. Shot a 120# doe from the club's back porch at 330 measured yards, it ran 20 yds & piled up. I still have the rifle but mostly use a 257 Roberst.

Scott, I hear you. Even though I like the looks of the blue tipped bullets, it sounds moot for deer what bullet to use. I did figure the 100 BT might be some of the most accurate.

The Roberts, well.....I guess I liked the looks of the lil 250, seems to fit a SA well and the AI seems to live up to PO Ackley's positive words.

I have read solid feedback on the Kimber in Roberts....wish they had a 250 as an option, but their 257 is in a short action so it's handy. Had not though of the 110AB being longish, perhaps more like a 117-120. I figured a 250 would be well suited for 100s but you here a few guys liking the heavier bullets. Perhaps the many slow twisted 250s are what held more shooters back from the heavies, but then again, if the 100s have been adequate....

Any preference to brand of brass guys in the 250, or Bob for that matter?

Thanks all.

The Ackley 250-3000 case seems like a really nice fit for many of the short actions on the market. How does case capacity measure up between the 250AI and a 243 or 260 case? A 6mmx250AI should be a neat round for the longer 6mm bullets. Tubb has basically been there already with the 6XC, but that seems like a somewhat complicated affair.

I have five 250-3000`s. Two in Mod 20`s, standard cartridge, three in AI, two sporters, one on a 98, one a SA 700, the last set up for target work at 600 and 1K, shooting JLK VLD 107 grn bullets.
With the exception of the target gun, I have taken game with all rifles. IMHO the 250 kills out of proportion to it`s size, whatever that means.....to me, I have had many one shot kills with these guns. I mean DRT, in their tracks. Sierra 100grn BTSP is a good one as are others. Remington 100grn RN was another, cause I don`t think these bullets are made any more. I`ve got a few hundred stashed.
A few years ago in Wy. I killed a Mule deer buck, and antilope, with the AI, both hit behind the front shoulder. The deer dropped so fast I thought it had stepped into a hole, the lope was lying down, cought his neck into the chest...didn`t move.
I LOVE my 250`s and better yet know what to expect from them.

THERE IS NO BETTER CARTRIDGE OUT THERE!!!

Mr. 65BR;
Our youngest daughter shoots an AI built on a 722 action and an RKS barrel.

Thus far in our family it has accounted for 7 deer � 6 for her and one for me - both whitetail and mule deer which ranged in carcass weight from 70lb to 145lbs. They were shot at ranges estimated between 50yds and 200 yds. Each animal was taken with a single shot and was recovered either where it had been standing or within 30-50yds.

As well, I killed one coyote that was auditioning for a Darwin award, but that is a story for another time.

All animals were shot with 100gr Hornady Intelocks pushed by enough WW760 that they are going a bit under 2900fps.

We use both Remington and Winchester brass and thus far are satisfied with both enough that I�d recommend either.

Two of the deer were hit in the vertebrae which resulted in the bullet coming apart and only the jacket being recovered. The rest of the animals were through and through bullet penetrations resulting in lots of tissue damage in between the holes.

A good example was the last mule deer - an estimated 110lb carcass weight as the scale broke that night- which was shot at about 150yds. The bullet broke the right scapula on entry, then broke 2 ribs, severely traumatized the lungs, broke 2 more ribs and exited the left scapula.

Between our youngest shooting animals with the .250AI and the eldest using her 6.5x55, I�ve been forced to rethink the parameters of what one �needs� to kill a deer.

Hopefully that was some use to you. Good luck on your upcoming hunts.

Regards,
Dwayne

The .250 Savage kills deer and pronghorn just fine when it is aimed correctly; my wife and I have both used it quite a bit. It also works very well on varmints, but is a little much for all-day prairie dog shooting.

We have never tried the .250 AI, unless you count the .257 Roberts, which has just about exactly the same case capacity. It also works when pointed straight.

I feel a kinship to the 250-3000..I began life with a 25-35 shooting deer and elk, My dad used the 25-35 and later the 250 savage and he killed probably 40 or more elk with it..None of us ever lost one btw..

How dad came about the 250 Savage is a funny story...We hauled about 30 or so mules to Colorado every year from our Texas ranch and hunted elk then sold the mules at Chimney Rock when we came out. The Colorado packers would be waiting for us..One year the Game Warden was waiting for us and he took dad to the judge for using a 25-35, dad was mortified because he believed in obeying the law...He told the judge he had been hunting with that gun for many years and never gave it any thought..The judge dismissed the case and warned him to get a bigger gun..As soon as we pulled into our hometown he went into the Hardward store and bought the Savage 99EG in 250-3000 Sav. I said, "Dad, that gun ain't very big and not much bigger than the 25-35..Dad looked at me like I was nuts and told me I didn't know what I was talking about, so I shut up pronto..On the way to the ranch he also told me that he had checked every caliber in the store and most had 4 numbers but the Savage had 7 numbers, therefore anyone with any since at all would know it automatically was the most powerful rifle in the store! I kept real quite, I knew then that I had been outmatched! To top it off that little Savage killed elk like the hammer of Thor...all you had to do was stick one of those factory rounds in the heart lung area and they died..I shot a number of elk with that rifle, but elk hunting was different back then, the elk came out on side hills in the sagebrush. We shot at under 200 yards, got in close, only took broadside shots, so it worked..

As for deer, both whitetail and Muledeer, the 250-3000 is a match made in heaven.

Today I use a .338 Win with 300 gr. Woodleighs in the timber and the 210 noslers on the more open areas. todays elk are more skittish and head for the dark timber at the first shot of the season. Most of the elk I have shot in the last 30 years have been going away from me at a fast pace on a dark timber sidehill.

I had better edit this post to say that I still have that 99EG 250-3000 in fact I have two of them and I still use them from time to time..A great saddle gun and yes I would feel Ok hunting elk with it today but its not my pick..For deer I still use it and the 25-35

Great story Ray!
Over here we use the very similar 303/25. In a SMLE it's pretty much a 250Savage clone ... maybe just a step behind depending on how its loaded. Plenty of pigs, goats, kangaroos and deer have fallen to them. Interestingly, both the 303/25 and 303/22 probably have the Savage 99s in 22HiPower and 250/3000 to thank for their development.
Cheers...
Con

Stories like Ray's and others make it rough on my wallet. As to a 6 on the 250 case, the 6-250 and 6.5-250 have been done, duplicating I would think the 6XC and the 6.5x47 Lapua respectively. I could easily build a 25 BR or go with a 25/6.5x47L to get Lapua brass, but all things considered, rather have something brass can be obtained easily (as in mfg. in US) or made/formed from other brass if needed in a pinch so I am pretty set on a 250/ai but won't rule out a Roberts. I think the late Bob Milek bragged on it, perhaps it was his dad IIRC who used one quite a bit on much game.

Love hearing the reports on the mid sized 25s.

I saw a nice Ruger in Roberts, and knew it would duplicate an AI or close, same as the new Kimbers. That new Montana in Roberts does get my attention, but I have long felt a desire to get a 250 or 250 AI, likely building one. I love the 260 and 6.5x55, but just as I gravitate toward effective rounds that some consider small, that give me a very tolerable level of blast and recoil, allowing me many hours of fun at the range, and afield, so it is with my idea of a modest 25 cal. Something classic, nostalgic perhaps as the Swede, yet not taking a back seat in killing deer size game if you use a bullet so designed and steer it right as JB said.

I am going to have to dig out that article Steve wrote awhile back.

Kimber, any chance the Montana would be mfg in 250? That would be for me an outstanding package. I may submit that to them.

Thanks guys, looks like many happy campers liking their 25s.

I shot a whitetail doe about 2 years ago with a Savage
Model 110 in .250-3000. Neck shot at about 60 yards,
dropped in its tracks. I was going to buy a Savage 14
in .22-250 a couple months later and have it rebarreled
with the barrel from my 110, but Savage brought out the
14 in .250-3000 before I did it. I was preparing to
buy a Model 14 when I found a Remington 700 Classic
in .250 this past summer. Hopefully this year I will use it
for deer.

Ray, now I know why the .250-3000 works so well. It's all those numbers!

I learn something new everyday!!!!!


Id love to share a Campfire some day with Ray.Got lots of Storys about Grampa and his Mo.92 25-20.

The 250-3000 is a sweet cartridge. I hope it gets revived as it seems to be one of the most efficient cartridges around as far as performance on game for it's size. I have only used it in the 99 but someday hope to build an ultra light mannlicher bolt gun for it.

Perfect for Whitetail and average size Hogs. Seems like the ideal "Woods Loafer" cartridge.

Took out an old Savage 99 for antelope and it worked beautifully with 87gr Speer Hot Cores. Bang, flop. Rebarreled a Savage 11F with a 250 Savage barrel this year so I can shoot the longer bullets, looking forward to how well it will do.

Don't really see a need for the AI, myself.. maybe if I was hunting monster muleys or elk with it. But I'd probably just switch to a 284 or 308 for those.

I really like the AI performance, and it would be a nice SAAMI round if it fed well, and it might I don't know. Yet, for the use intended, I think a simple 250 would be nice not having to form brass. Not a big deal, but simple is often good.

Thanks for the report, I hear good things on those little hot cores in 87. Prolly many 14" twisted savages is why they get used, as well as their effectiveness.

Agreed, a light mannlicher would be sweet. Also, I like about anything from 6mmBR to 7/08, but mostly using 6-6.5s right now, but no 25s. It is sandwiched nicely in between those rounds.

I've had only one 250 Savage (Ruger 77 RSI) and am on my fourth 257 Roberts. I like(d) them both (as has been pointed out, the Rob and 250 Ai are the same cartridge). Both cartridges kill well (duh), but the Roberts is my favorite of the two and I plan on using my 257 to elk hunt this year stoked with 115 Partitions.

My wife is going to use her Roberts stoked with 100 gr. TSX on elk this year...
Wouldn't be the first one she's doinked with the Bob...
Ingwe

Ray, that was a great story! Thanks for sharing that one.

Anyone using the bob in short actions? Kimber Montana? Is accuracy adversely affected when bullets are seated to fit mag?

Will the Roberts hang with the 250 and AI, in accuracy? What brass are you guys using for the 257s?

+1 on Ray's post.

Interesting story Ray

"We hauled about 30 or so mules to Colorado every year from our Texas ranch and hunted elk then sold the mules at Chimney Rock when we came out. The Colorado packers would be waiting for us.."

2 years ago we camped at Chimney rock campground/ store/ diner and hunted the hills of Chimney rock. All of the big bucks were out in the evenings on Indian property, very few were on the ajoining lands.

I am thinking of saving for a Montana in 257 roberts, but may hold out for a 25-06 for the extra umph. I have a heavy bbl ruger 25-06 and like the caliber. Is the longer actioned montana much more weight? Their website bunches them together for weight....

Allen

65BR,

The Bob works fine in short actions, and has since the Remington 722 came out. In all short actions that I know of (and I have shot a bunch of various makes, both factory and custom) the throat is cut the correct length for the magazine. It will shoot right with the .250 AI in both velocity and accuracy if the barrel and chamber job are of equal quality.

JB, I will have to give the Montana Bob top consideration in the future knowing the throating will do fine. Be cheaper than a custom or close to it.

Thanks.

I'm looking for a 250 barrel for my Ruger lefty M77. I put away my Savage 14 before ever shooting it.

http://ershawbarrels.com/pricelist/pricelist.asp
Here you go.

Read "Elk Tactics" by Don Laubach if you want to have some fun. As I recall, he starts it off with a description of how his dad shot a big elk with an 87 grain bullet from a 250-3000 Savage 99 at around 200 yards and dropped him with one shot.

Wow, reincarnation must be real after more than ten years.

Bang....flop.

I have only actually seen a 250 Savage used by one man, a good friend of mine. He killed 3 antelope with it, all with 100 grain factory rounds. (I believe they were made by Federal, but I am not 100% certain)
All 3 kills were good and one was very good....a "half-stepper", where the little buck tried to take a step and fell. The other 2 went about 15-20 yards and then fell. But he over reached when he killed a rag-horn bull elk with it. That took 4 rounds, and we polished it off with a shot from my 303 British after we caught up with it. He had 5 round in his Savage and fired all 5, with 4 hits. I gave him my 303 so he could get the killing shot into it. The 303 bullet was a 180 grain Speer and that one went clear through and logged on the skin on the other side of the chest. The elk went about 150 yards total after the 2nd 3rd and 4th hits. For some reason he used the Winchester factory ammo with 87 grain bullets on the elk, even though he used the heavier 100 grain bullet on the antelope. All 4 rounds showed very shallow penetration and one that hit the shoulder blade didn't even get into the lungs. Since then he's used it with hand-loaded ammo and likes the 115 grain Nosler, but all I know about his kills with them are what he's told me, because since he started hand-loading for the rifle I have not been with him on another kill with his old 99 Savage.

My daughter and both grand sons have killed multiple elk with their 257 Roberts. All were killed with Nosler Partitions and Barnes TSX bullets and all were killed well and penetration was always OK. The 250 Savage with proper hand-loads is not far behind the 257 Roberts, so I am sure the 250 Savage would be OK if correct bullets were used, but shooting very small bullets for larger game is a shot for an expert, not a beginner.
For deer I think the 250 is as good as any other shell. For elk............well ...........you had better understand the "inside of the elk" and you better put the bullet exactly where it needs to go. Elk are big, so good bullet placement is not hard to do if you are not trying to do it from too far away to be ethical. ABut ahit with a 250 "around the edges" of the lungs or through the liver may give you one of those follow-ups that you will remember for many years.......and not fondly.

Are the small rifles used with success? Sure. At times and by some. We killed cattle with a 22 LR in the slaughter house, but because it works under perfect conditions would not qualify it as a good buffalo gun.

As for me, I think of the 24s and the 25s as very good deer rifles, but an expert elk hunter's elk rifle. I live in the middle of elk country so for me, if the shot is not perfect I can walk away and come back tomorrow, or next week or next month and sometime up to 2 month later, and "coming back" involves about a 20 minute drive. I can hunt them for 10-11 weeks each year so walking away is no big deal for me. For those that need to take time off work, travel a long way and spend a lot of cash on an elk hunt, walking away is not something they are going to want to do. So I would not recommend a 24 or a 25 cal for many hunters unless they are very disciplined, very ethical and excellent marksmen.

Some may disagree. And they can if they like, because it's their money, their tags and their hunt.

Nuf-said.

I have had two. One was a Winchester Model 54 and the other a Ruger M77 Ultralight with the tang safety. The Model 54 had been rebarreled and I ended up selling it to my brother. I still have the Ruger though. It's a great little round and I have shot a lot of pigs and foxes with it. My favourite bullet is the 100gn Hornady SP with H4350. I have tried H4895 and Varget but I always got the highest velocity and good groups with the slower powder despite the 20 inch barrel. I didn't take it out last year as I hunted with some newer rifles but I may have to take a meat doe with it this year.

The 250-3000 is a gem of a cartridge. I would not do a 250AI now and instead would go 25 Creedmoor, brass would be a simple necking up or down proposition and I have heard a 30 degree neck is more uniform in pressure than a 40 but do not have any hard facts to back that up.

The improved versions have almost identical powder capacities to the 08 case and only about 3-5 grains less than the x 57mm case. All of them seem just about ideal from 22 to 7mm in bore diameter and do 90% of what the 06 based cases do.

I got my first rifle chambered in 250-3000 about 50 years ago, an early 1920's vintage Savage 99G. Back then there were four common factory loads, two from Remington and two from Winchester. Remington cataloged two 100 grain loads, a round point Core-Lokt (RNCL) and the same 100 grain Pointed Soft Point (PSP) that they sell today. Winchester cataloged an 87 grain PSP and the same 100 grain Silvertip (ST) that they sell today.

Even 50 years ago the 250-3000 was mostly a handloader's cartridge, since it falls into the same dual-purpose category as the 243 and 244/6MM, a 75 grain factory load intended for shooting varmints might have helped it regain and retain more popularity.

After a hiatus of several years, Savage reintroduced the 250-3000 with a 1-10" ROT in 1970/71 and continued to catalog it in the Model 99 until 1981/82. During that same period of time, Ruger made their Model 77 in 250-3000, but I don't think that those rifles were a regular cataloged item until the 250-3000 was added to the 77 RSI in 1983/84. Other than Ruger and Savage, the only other American manufacturers that cataloged rifles in 250-3000 were Remington in the 1984 700 Classic and the Winchester/USRA Lightweight Carbine in 1987. For some unknown reason, Winchester/USRA made those rifles with a 1-14" ROT instead of the then current 1-10" ROT standard.

I think that the 250-3000 is a nice cartridge if you're a handloader, not so much if you're not.

From a practical perspective, I don't think that the 250-3000 is any better than the 243 or 6MM REM for any purpose that a person would use those cartridges for, but rifles and factory ammo in 250-3000 are generally less common and more expensive than 243s.

I have rechambered a couple of 250-3000 rifles to 250AI, but it never fed well in my Ruger 77 RSI, so I got a replacement barrel and rechambered it to 25 Souper. The 25 Souper feeds smoothly and they provide the same level of performance, so it is my preferred choice between the two. I rechambered a Savage 99 CD from 250-3000 to 250AI, and then on to 25-284 in order to maximize its performance potential.

I've owned two: a German .250-3000 double rifle built in the 1920s and a Remington Custom Shop Model 7 with a laminated Mannlicher-style stock. I took one deer with the Model 7. One shot (100 grain Remington factory load) through the lungs. Deer walked about 40 feet and keeled over. Bullet went clear through. Can't ask for better performance than that.

The .250 can be a very accurate round and is a great starter round for young shooters because of its light recoil. A lot of early Savage Model 99s in .250 have slow twist barrels that won't stabilize some of the longer 100 grain bullets. Neither of my rifles had that issue, but they were not Savage 99s.

You can do far worse.

My .250AI is on a M70 compact classic. No feeding issues at all. Of course, that can't be assumed for every rifle.

We have a Remington 700 classic chambered in 250-3000. I haven't used it in the woods nearly as much as my father has, but I fell in love with the cartridge even from a young age! It's been very reliable on whitetails for us out to around 350 yards with Remington 100gn PSP ammo, but we did have quite an interesting experience about two years ago with a buck.

I was sitting on a pipeline one morning and my dad was back in the woods about half a mile away. Around mid-morning, I heard a shot and was planning on continuing to hunt until I heard from him over the radio; but then I heard another shot, and another shot, so I figured I'd head that way assuming he saw a pack of hogs or a state-record buck on the ground! When I had pulled near the stand and started walking his way, he shot AGAIN and I was sure this was going to be the biggest buck I had ever seen. When I finally got through the brush, I saw him and was immediately dumbfounded. It was only an average size buck, and the stand was less than 100yds away from where he fell! Apparently, this was one of those Spartan deer that refused to die after taking the first round in the neck, then through the spine and out of his tailpipe, and one through the shoulder/spine. I can't remember where the fourth round landed, but one of them ended up chipping an antler in the ensuing chaos.

Have owned a total of 10 .250-3000 Savage rifles, including four 99's (including a take-down), a Savage Model 20, a Winchester Model 70 Lightweight Carbine, one Sisk custom rifle on a Remington 700 short action, a Remington 700 Classic, and a few I can't remember right now. The little cartridge kills deer-sized game very well (which includes pronghorns, where it works nicely).

It also kills elk, in fact a good friend has one that his kids have killed several cows with, using Nosler Partitions. Can't remember which weight, but it was either 100 or 115, and all exited on broadside lung shots.

I grew up in a family of hunters who used the 250-3000 on Whitetails and I guess I am a chip off the old block. A few 99s have passed thru my hands until I settled on one, a 99-A. Thru the years in a couple of Wisconsin deer camps I have seen a lot of deer killed with the 250 and killed several my self.

In a week moment recently, I picked up a Ruger 77 in 250-3000 and look forward to see how it shoots. I have good stash of Remington brass so I will blast away.

Oh, and here is my 99-A

I guess I’m like many here - have a particular fondness for the .250-3000 that started when I was about 12 when I saw my first cartridge (a W-W 100 grain silvertip) that was left on the window sill of an out building on my oldest brothers farm. I had no idea what it was as the only cartridges I knew much about were the .30-30, .270, .30-06 as these were the ones used by my brother and other family members. So the quest began and now some 50 years later I have 14 .250s in my accumulation of firearms - some of the “usuals” - Remington 700, Rugers ultra-light and RSI, Mauser, Savage 99s and 14s, and a few customs - Griffin & Howe on a Kurz Mauser 98, a Sako, and a Remington 700. I’ve pretty much used them on whitetails but have take antelope, black bear and elk and only ever had one issue - apparently the bullet didn’t land where it needed to. The load used most often was the older Nosler 100 grain Solid Base BT and WW760 powder. After all these years really can’t think of a better cartridge for whitetails for man, woman or youngster.

PennDog