I favor the .300 savage in my model 99. I will put it up against any .308 ever made. Dont understand why the .300 savage got such a bad rap...perhaps its proponents are dying off and the model 99 is no longer being made. ( a real shame that.) .250-3000 Savage is another good one...killed off by the .243 I expect.

Another good obscure/wildcat/fading away is the .338-06. I had high hopes but only weatherby chambers it and it is now the age of the short magnum. Anyone that does have a .338-06 sings its praises but it is probably a dying round.

My newest baby is the .264 win Mag. I confess to being a 6.5 afficionado from way back, but I love this cartridge. It is like a .270 on steroids. Great choice of bullet weights and just flat out shoots. Another casualy of the short magum craze.

I would like Mule Deer's take on this. He did a great article on this a while back. Anyone else got a take on this??? Mr. Howell??

I don't think the .300 Savage got a bad rap at all. More to the opposite in that it's very well thought of. It's just that the 99 was a top rifle pre WW11 and then the autoloaders became popular due to our army using them. Add the .308 Win to the market, which is just like a .300S, and that's the story.

I like the 6mm Rem Intl. for competition to 200 yds and the .358 Win for woods hunting. Other rounds would do well also.

I have tried the 264 WM and am trying one again. It's not easy. More rifle problems than cartridge so far.

Swede,

My .300 Savage is a Savage M20 (later model). I have several .308 Win rifles, and look on it as the successor of the Savage cartridge.

I like 6.5s too, my first was a 6.5X55. I shoot a 6.5-'06 now (my Western deer rifle).

I don't know if they rate the label "obscure", but they certainly are less common than many.

jim dodd

For you Savage 99 guys, I handled a model 1899 Savage in .303 at a local shop last week.

.300 H&H Magnum! My first real mag rifle and it is easy
on my rotator cuff while doing fine on bigger game at
reasonably long range -- no two canyons away but well within
my skill levels. I just don't need an ultra, or ultra short
mag and this old classic is just my style! Pity they aren't
made by the major companies anymore.

A Ruger one in a 26 inch barrel would be a real winner.

1B

It's weird, but I'm getting to really appreciate the 6.5-'06 Ackley. The 125-grain Partition at 3,200 flat is looking good for most any big game beasties I'm likely to bump into.



For many years, I was a real .338-'06 fan (wrote my first article in Handloader about it). All of my African animals, up to and including eland, were killed with a .30-'06. For the last couple of decades I've actually done the bulk of my killing with the .280 Ackley.



Hey, maybe it's time for a change, and right now the 6.5-'06 Ackley is looking very, very good.



Steve

I like the 257R, 250 sav, 6.5X55, 7X57Mauser, and 358 win. I think that the 308 and cal's based on that case, having ballastics of near the 06 took a lot of ctg's out of the game. Most of the old ctg's were 45,000 psi. The 308 is 55,000+. These new short mags, are at 65,000. Let's face it, velosity sells guns. I don't think that most people realize that you couldn't blow your nose on the real differance between the 300 sav and 308. I think that a 250 sav with a 1 in 10 twist barrel is a much more versitile ctg than the 243. I would like to see a 338/08, and 25/08. A man with a 7X57 is pretty well armed except maybe for the griz bears. I guess that in the last 20 or so years, game animals have gotten harder to kill. dingus

In the truly obscure category, I'm becoming enamoured of the 9x57 Mauser. I have two of them now, and would like to have a Euro break-open single in 9x57R, just for grins. The 9x57 served the .358/.35 Whelen role admirably on several continents for donkey's years, and is still as functional as it ever was. A 200 gr bullet at 2400 fps or a 250 at 2200 fps will pretty much kill anything killable, at least in my world. Another fading round I am working toward building a rifle for is the wonderful .356 Winchester...which produces pretty much the same effect in light, handy lever rifles.

I also have a Zoli combination gun featuring a 7x57R underbarrel -- the old Mauser round is actually fairly common and has a steady constituency -- but its rimmed cousin is a bit hard to come by.

Lately I've been doing a lot of prairie dogging with a .225 Win. (Sav. 340) and taking a goodly number of deer using a .25-35 ( Sav. 1899 and Win 94). I have a dream of going on a hunting trip with a bunch of like-minded friends using nothing but 100-plus-year-old rifles. Mine are 1895 Savage in .303 Sav, and several 1899 Savages in .303S, 30-30, .25-35, .32-40, and .38-55. along with the Win 94 in .25-35.
How many here still hunt with the Win 71? With this recent interest in old cartridges, I'd like to see the old .348 chambered in something new--as well as the .32-40 and .25-35. Steve

7x64 Brenneke. Mine's a Sako 691 with a S&B 6x42 I bought in Norway. I make no secret of being a total 7mm slut and this is a good one. The ballistic (and darn near case) twin of the .280 Remington dating back to I believe 1917. If this one had crossed the pond and caught on the .270 Winchester wouldn't have stood a chance! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's funny how much I read over here about the 6.5x55's use on Moose in Scandinavia, and it is popular, but I see lots more of the "serious" hunters over there, the guys who live it like us and go abroad such as to Africa, with the 7x64.

Steve, I fully agree with you on the 225 mine is built on an Martini weighs in at 19 pounds. I too would like to do a hunt with rifles at least 100 years old. My favorite presently is a Remington roller in a very obscure cartridge 12.7x44r. I also have a Savage in 303 it is really a parts gun and a couple side by side 12 guage shot guns built prior to 1903 as well as an original 1858 44 Remington revolver. I would like to try my 6MM Lee navy on antelope, I bet that has not been done in a real long time.

Bullwnkl.

Wy Swede,

You had to ask! The 9.3x62, 9.3x74R, and 9.3x57, of course. Did you expect anything else? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, in reality, I like about anything except the .223, .243, .270, .30-06, 7mm Mag, and .300 Winnie. Course after thinking about it, I mentally counted at least 12 rifles of the above mentioned calibers stashed away in my hoard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What the Heck? I am a hopless rifle crank! I admit it! I have a problem! What are the 12 steps?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, the .250 Ackley Improved is my first wildcat, but so far, I really like it. I guess it could be called obscure. Getting 3150 with 100gr Hornadies, which worked good on the only deer I've killed with it, and 2938 with 117gr Sierras. I believe it will prove to be more satisfactory for me than my 6mm was. Come to think of it, I guess the 6mm was kinda obscure compared to the .243.

John

I'm in love with the .280.

WyomingSwede
Just cant beat the 8X57 and the 9.3X62.......
Charlie

My favorites aren't so obscure anymore, 45-70, 38-55, 220 Swift and 264 win mag. As for 9 3GUY, I think the first step towards recovery was admitting you have a problem, the second step would be getting rid of "all" of them, I can give you my address to send them to and you will be a happier man <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

The popularity of the 225 on this thread surprises me. That would be one of the first on my list. My "love affair" with it started when a local store "dropped off" over 50 boxes of red and yellow box ammo at the local dump a number of years ago. I then found an old M670 Winchester to shoot it in. I'd like to get a Ruger #1 barreled or rechambered to 225. It ain't necessarily better - it's just good.

I'd also like to get a 30/40 Krag in a #1.

I like the 300 H&H and am fascinated with the 35 cals. The 358 Win is on my rack and the 358 Norma will hopefully join it. The 350 Rem Mag in a Rem Model Seven or short Ruger 77 would really be icing on the cake.

Steve, those old 71's were a real game getting rifle. The 358 win is almost a dead ringer for it ballastically. Back in the 50's and 60's, this was the gun the alaskian guides used. That case was wild-catted to a number of 375, 40 and 45 cal ctgs. That was one serious rifle, and maybe one day I could afford at least the browning copy. dingus

My two favorite deer rifles are a Savage Model 99 in 358 and a Winchester Model 88 in 338-08.
Two excellent rounds for anything this side of 200yds.

My current favorite is the 356 Winchester. That round was my introduction to the Model 94 Winchester, as I just couldn't bring myself to buy a 30-30 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll take either a 356 or 358, depending on action.

My second favorite, the 308, certainly isn't "obscure", it just doesn't seem to get much respect on many of the forums. Folks want something different than the masses, and the 308 has been around too long <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

An obscure round that I really want, but don't have yet, is the 9.3x62 Mauser. Beats the 35 Whelan nicely IMHO, and that is coming from a 35 fan...

Dogzapper,

My 6.5-'06 is not the improved version. I thought about having it Ackley Improved, but the original chamber was cut with a Red Elliott reamer by local gunsmith and friend Rex Hinman; Rex died this year. I bought several boxes of Swift .264/120 grain A-Frames when the bullet was introduced, and that should work for a long time.

jim

I have a 256 Newton that is fun to shoot. Since Remington has decided to breath life into the 99.9% dead 6.5 Rem Mag, maybe they could do the same with the 256 Newton in the 700 Classic.

I kinda like the 284 and 358 too, but I doubt that Remington will ever chamber them.

Jeff

I wouldn't classify my favorites as obscure, as factory brass is available, and some most are a factory chambering by someone. I guess they would be best described as "not mainstream."
.22 Hornet, 250-3000, 6.5X55, 7X57, .300 Savage, .300 H&H, and 9.3X74R.

Jeff

6.5x54 MS, 375 2 1/2" Flanged Nitro Express, 450 3 1/4" BPE (45 Eley), 45-75 Winchester (NWMP cartridge) and 50-95 Winchester (the first American express cartridge used in both India and Africa with the '76 Winchester rifle) - although I haven't shot these last two yet, I'm hoping to in the next few months - reloading components have been hard to come by.

John

280!

358 winchester.

But I be a po boy so all I got is mainstream boring calibers...
like those ammo sales on 30.06 and 308 and 223

7.62x39 cheaper than dirt, 1000 rounds delivered to the door for 90 bucks. How can you beat that?????????????????

akjeff:

Nice selection!

I still miss my Remington Rolling Block 22 Hornet, 30-40- Krag carbine, and 8x57 Mauser. If'n I had more money, I'd get the 348 in the Model 71.

BMT

W S,
My favorite rifle,is somewhat obscure;the 30/40 Krag.
I also sorta like the 300 Savage and the 22 Kilbourne Hornet.
Frank

Thanks, BMT.

I can't believe I forgot to list the .348 Win.! I have a shooter standard grade rifle that's in terrific shape, but unfortunately, a previous owner added sling swivels. They are fine rifles. The 71,along with its cousin, the 1886, are my favorite lever guns. The '86's are pretty out of sight price wise though.

Jeff

Hi dingus,
I've got two of the 'real things'--a deluxe and a standard--no long tangs though. An engraver over in Cody has offered to trade his engraving on one (any pattern I want) for the other one. Don't think I'll take him up on it. Yet. I'm also looking for one of the Brownings for a shooter since I no longer like to take these into the field. Steve

jbmi, have you run your 338-08 over a chronagraph? I have a mod 88 that I have been toying with the idea of doing that to. did you re-bore or re-baarrel? dingus

Ditto on the 1886 Winchester. I have a lightweight takedown with deluxe checkering in .33WCF. Shoots like a .30-30 with THUMP or the .338 winmag at 300 yards. Darn Hornaday for discontinuing bullets.

Make mine a 33 Win in a 1885 hiwall, or a 35 Whelen in a hiwall. Why are hiwalls so danged expensive?

Live well.

Although not terribly obscure, mine are the .284 Winchester, .280 Remington, .300 Savage, and .257 Roberts.

I like the .22 Hornet, K Hornet also. .338-06 I just recieved about two weeks ago & love it! 358 Win & the 6mm Rem are some of the best to go along with the .30-06 which just keeps pluggin along...

Pat

....450 ne for its political significance, and it role in the development of descendants .470 ne, .458 win. mag. etc...

40-65 winchester. I guess this was the first "custom" rifle that I fiddled with. Navy Arms rolling block action. Had a guy in Florida barrel it for me (Riley Richards I believe).Purchased a ROUGH inleted 2 piece stock that was a bear to finish and had a good friend make a brass forearm cap for it. I really haven't spent enough time to work up any good loads for it yet. Have shot it many times. All loads so far were made up with black powder and cast bullets (about the only option with .408 diameter bullets) and were very pleasent off of the bench. One off these days I'll get off my butt and work up a decent load and take it to the deer woods!

I bought a browning 71 off gunbroker this summer, have not shot yet.Would like to get a .405 winchester.( I collect roosevelts books)Would like a .250 savage, and .22 hi-power.
wayne <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

.218 Bee, .25-20 Win., .25-35 Win., .250 Savage, 7x57mm Mauser, .300 Savage, .348 Win.

38-55 highwall and #1, 50 AE lowwall <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, 30-40 # 3, Rem mod 7 in 35 Rem 358win and 350rem, and 416 express in a mod 70 classic.

Just barely bought a Win 71 .348.......Haven't started to reload for it yet. This is the epitome of lever actions as far as I'm concerned. Just above the 86 and a step or two above the pre 64 model 64. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Can't wait to take it elk hunting this fall.

Have an original BLR in .358 that my dad still thinks is his. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Love both those calibers.

I have a '52 Marlin 336A (24" barrel 2/3's magazine) in .35 Remington that I have fallen in love with since I got it last May. One shot, one buffalo! But only 40 yards. Not a hunt, just meat for our firemans raffle.

I'm rebarreling a Marlin lever to .32 Special. So my favorite guns are in somewhat obscure calibers.

22 hornet, 222 Rem, 7x57, 300 Savage, 35 Rem, 348 Win. But I think when it's all said and done the're still be more of these "obscure" rifles around than some of these new super duper short mags.

250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 7.62x39 (handloaded, 308 cal.), 7x57 and 6mm rem. The 250 Savage is way under rated as a young hunters cartridge.

.218 Bee, .250 Savage, 6.5x64mm Mauser (not Mannlicher, though it is also great), .300 Savage and H&H, .30-40 Krag, 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R, .405 Winchester, .416 Rigby. Ah, hell, I like 'em all!

351 Winchester self loader for my 1907 Winchester Semi-Auto rifle.
Bill

I had a Marlin lever gun chambered for 25-20 (recent manufacture-not an old one) that I foolishly let go, and I've regretted it eve since. It was just so darned fun to shoot. I never tried it on deer, but would think if you were careful it would work on close shots. Hunting ground hogs was a real adventure, as it didn't exactly have a flat trajectory. Just a fun little gun to play around with. My meat gun is an old 300 Savage. Keep the 308's and make mine a 99 any time. I also have shot the 225, and found it to be a good round.

7x57, 300 H&H, 411 Hawk, 500 Jeffery, 32-20 Win. Working on a 275 H&H!!!

it's nice to see others have recognized the 7x64 and 9.3x62

both show that new isn't necessarily progress, the .270 then .280 weren't improvements on the 7x64, and the 7 mags were insignificant improvements on it

the 9.3x62 squeezes everything possible from the '06 case if you want a big bullet

I've also got some of the later released cal's I mentioned, but they were essentially reinventions.

I finally got fed up with trying to locate cases and in a moment of madness sold a Mauser 98 that had been rebarreled and chambered for the 10.75x68 Mauser. At original ballistics it was a nice, mild to shoot big bore, loaded up it would equal the factory 404 Jeffery. Much under appreciated, I dont think I'll forgive RWS for stopping its production of cases.
Cheers...
Con

9.3x74R

Had a 92 Winchester in 25-20 that was grandpa's... Gave it to my son, Ernie, named after his Great Grandpa Ernie, for a highschool graduation gift.

My present "classics" are a 700 classic in 257 Roberts, a 22 hornet in a #1, and a 220 swift in a Ruger 77V

Virgil B. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

.22 Hornet, 7X57, .300 H&H (all-time favorite), .358 Win, 9.3X62, and .375 Weatherby

Putting all my all time great German cartridges in the "obscure" box! Many thanks!

Serious: The old European 6,5�s, 7mm�s and 8 mm�s are hard to beat (if at all) by most "modern times" 25�s, 6,5�s, .270�s, 7 mm�s, .30�s, .338�s and .375�s.

9,3�s are still state-of-the art, the 9,3x62 plus the 8x57 still *the* rounds with the best energy-per-gram-powder ratio.

I think it�s only commercial reasons (higher prices for ammo and components) that hinders popularity of these fine rounds your side of the big pond.

Don�t get me wrong, though: As a writer and outfitter, it�s part of my life (and living) to play with new guns and ammo, even with "obscure" rifles like weak Lever Actions and obscure he-man magnums.

Roe Deer

...fwiw, the 9.3x74r, now more than 100 years old, has of late experienced a tremendous resurgence in popularity, especially amongst euro hunters of big game and boars...

...in fact, the 9.3x74r is the only way to go if you opt for a medium bore double rifle in a rimmed cartridge, and many ph's have stated that they see little difference between the 9.3 and the .375hh mag. (rimless) on dg up to cape buff...

...

.257 Roberts, .30-40 Krag

.32-20, .38-40, 7x57R

None of these are nearly so obscure as they were. Obscurity isn't all bad, though. Bass Pro Shop discontinued the .32-20 a few years ago, and sold their inventory of Remington ammo at 1/2 price. Get the shopping cart! The ammo is gone now, but I have a lifetime supply of once-fired cases. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

.224 Weatherby magnum and 8mmRemington Magnum. The first is the most accurate round I have ever shot and the second always deserved a better reputation than it developed.
Stay well,
Paul

Not sure it qualifies as obscure, but the 219 Donaldson Wasp is fun.

Hammer

I really like the 50 70.Got a Sharps 50 70 that has been in the family since 1895.Don't know how old it is.At 100 yds it is a very accurate rifle.In 1995,I commerorated the rifle's 100th year in the family,by dropping a spike elk with it with one shot.Fortunatly,my grandfather when he got it from his grandfather,he stocked up on 50 70 cartridges.The cartridge I used was a very old U.M.C. original cartridge.The old timers really had it right.slow moving heavy hitting big slug,totally devastated the animal.A lot of you hunters I know have shot big animals with 270's, 30 06 and so on.Shot the elk and the bullet went right through it,and the animal continues to run.This animal went down immediatly,it's lungs were soup no exit hole 3 broken ribs.My father and I have always talked bout re-loading for that old sharps.But we both feel that we could never quite duplicate those old cartridges.

I recently aquired an 1891 Argentine Mauser sporterized in 7.65x53mm and it is a fantastic shooter. I recently took it to the range and shot 3\4 to 1" groups with 174 gr FMJ. Of course my favorite obscure cartridge is the 32-40 winchester.

MarkT, we think alike, my friend.

RSY

8mm Rem Mag, 180 grain at 3200 feet per second easy, 250 grain at 2800 feet per second. 338 Lapua Improved.

Doc you're a lucky man! You ever decide to get rid of that rifle call me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! I hunt with a Pedersoli Quigley Sharps, globe front sight and Soule Vernier rear, in 45-70. Shoot a 535gr. bullet with blackpowder and smokeless both. Of the different bullet molds the 535gr. is my favorite. But that ole 50-70 has shot alot of game in it's day and you can duplicate those loads. These modern cartridges like you say, don't even compare. I've got a hankering to try the 50-140 also.

The 35 Newton, this one was thee original Ultra Mag.
The man was way ahead of his time.

375 flanged 2 1/2" case nitro express - the pre-pre 375 H&H.

John

If you try that 50 140,let me know how it goes.That is one mighty impressive cartrige.I usually hunt with a 45 70 marlin.I know there are modern flat shooting cartridges out there but I enjoy huntining with the big bores.It is nice to know there are some of us out there.Later.

My favourite "obscure" rifle cartridge in my Merkel drilling with it's two 12 ga. bbls. is the 9.3x74R, handloaded with the Nosler 286gr. PT. bullet a 2375fps. This has become my second favourite cartridge after my .338 Win Mags. of which I have five. I also have had and intend to replace a Mod. 71-.348 with 250 gr. Barnes originals, this would be my other favourite among "obscure" cartridges.

These medium bore moderate velocity rounds with heavy bullets are consistently better under my hunting conditions here in B.C. and I prefer them while walking in dense forest in country peppered with piles of warm, steamy bear [bleep].

Elmer was right about this and today's super bullets make these rounds even more effective.

Black 38/55,49/65 and the new old 50/90. New powder 7/57 ,9/57 and trying to get my new wounder cart 8x57R360. Still trying to find load data on this one. Only data i found was for bp rifles. The drilling is nitro marked.

Quote: "...8x57R360. Still trying to find load data on this one. Only data i found was for bp rifles. The drilling is nitro marked..."

Remember this is a .318" thing (do *not* use .323" bullets).

Cases are easiliy formed from 9,3x72 R (not 9,3x74 R) RWS brass (just run through sizer, cut to length, deburr...).

A minimum of 2,3 gram to a maximum of 2,4 gram Rottweil powder R904 or Norma 204 or Reloder 19 or IMR 4350 or H4350 or H450 are good for 530 to 580 meters per second with the .318" 12,7 g Soft RN e.g. from RWS.

Odd numbers should be reason enough for you cowboys to get international and metric soon.
(1 gram = 15,432 grain, 1 meter = 3,2808 ft)

Roe Deer

How about the good old .35 Whelen. I've also got a Whelen AI. I love my 7x57 too. All of course are in Rugers. One custom #3, a custom 77, and a #1 RSI. in that order.

Rugernut

30-06 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My favorite obscure is .240 Weatherby Mag. at 300 yards a puff of dirt will be up hardly before you can feel any recoil.

My favorites coming out of obscurity are 6.5 x 55 and 6.5-06 Springfield.

I am glad my all time favorite has nothing to do with obscurity, the .270 Win is a classy all american classic.
But contrary to the most popular 130s, I like 140 grains. Sweet