I am starting to get muzzle blast sensitive after years of competitive shooting. I now suffer from ringing in the ears and my Doc has suggested curtailing the competition. This is a hard blow but I'll do it. I don't want to give up hunting however and I think the few shots I fire for sight in and hunting would be OK. I've decided to sell my other calibers and settle on one which hopefully has a much reduced sound signature and therefore minimum impact on my ears. I'll of course wear ear protection like I've always done when shooting. I've kind of narrowed down my choices to 2 maybe 3 calibers for hunting mule, whitetail, hogs and maybe the occasional moose. I'm kinda leaning toward the 7mm-08 but perhaps the .260 or the 6.5X55 might be better. My question is - Which of these calibers would have the least muzzle blast or is it so close that it really wouldn't matter which choice?? If thats the case than maybe the 7mm-08 might be the best choice because of the slightly better ballistics and the availability of good 7mm bullets for handloaders. I would be using at least a 22 inch barrel as a platform. Thanks for your input to my question. I'll make the decision based on the general concensus.
PSE,
Welcome to 24hr.
Have you thought about wearing electronic ear muffs ? A buddy of mine wears them while hunting for the same reasons you cite and he is really happy with them. They both amplify sound and cut out loud noises.
Tony.
Hey pse
6.5x55 swede over 26 inch barrel or longer easy on ears but will more than do the job.
Bearbeater
This is a subjective kind of thing, I know. I am also suffering from having "tender ears". Muzzle blast really bothers me these days. Of the few cartridges I have hunted with in recent years, I have noticed that for some reason, the .30-06 is one of the kinder cartridges. It seems to "boom" more than "crack". My absolute favorite cartridge to hunt deer with is the 7mm/08. I am convinced that it is nirvana for whitetail deer hunting. Howsomever, I have noticed that it seems to crack more like one of the 2.5" .357 magnum revolvers I used to shoot. That said, mine is a Remington Mountain Rifle that was ported by its original owner for use by his daughter. I am sure he deafened her. Anyway, I had the barrel lopped off behind the ports, and now I have about 20" of barrel. Maybe a 24" barrel would tame the noise. I have also found the .243 Winchester to be very tolerable to my ears, and the best I have found so far, and this will sound like a band-wagon nomination, has been the .257 Roberts. I came up with one of these in a Ruger 77 just a week before gun season this year. Threw a load together and took to the field. Opening day I took three deer and really never noticed the muzzle blast with any of the shots.
One last thing that may or may not make a difference. When I load for my 7mm/08, I almost always use ball powder, specifically BL-C2 or H335. I don't know if the use of extruded powder would make a difference in the muzzle blast or not, but it is an avenue I have not experimented with.
my dads old 26" barrelled 06 is a pussycat.....
A lot of the noise a rifle makes is from powder burning in front of the barrel instead of inside it. the longer the barrel the more powder you will burn inside the barrel, and the mellower the muzzle blast.
I seem to recall hearing the higher the muzzle pressure the louder the blast. I`d think you`re looking for a low pressure round in a rifle with as long a barrel as is acceptible. Maybe a 7x57 in place of the 708 or a 6.5x55 vs the 260 Rem. I would make sure I had the highest rated hearing protection possible to go with the rifle.
It seems to me that the smaller the caliber the higher the pitch of the crack. It's those high pitch ones that get to me.
My guess is that something like a .35 Whelan with a longer than average barrel might be a good way to go, depending on the game.
Any of the calibers you've suggested would be allright, but the further from your ears the better, try something in a 24in or longer barrel.
Given the 3 choices you mentioned, I'd go with a 7mm-08 and use at least a 24" bbl. A 26" barrel using a fast burning powder should give you low muzzle blast and plenty of pop for deer and hogs....
PSE, I've yet to see a definitive reference on how to control muzzle blast, ie., something by a doctor or an engineer. I have to believe, though, there are three factors to consider:
1) how much powder you are burning, ie. how much propellant gas you are making
2) what pressure all this gas is when the bullet opens the muzzle
3) how far the muzzle is from you ears
I know 3) is for certain, and the intensity falls off with the square of the distance from your ear. So get as long a barrel as you can possibly take. 28" was an old std., and I can't see any need for a short barrel. If you're using a single shot, consider 30".
Next, pick the caliber you need to do the job at the lowest speed you can accept for the ranges you imagine. The slower you push the bullet, the less gas you need to give the bullet its shove. If you can live with 200 yd, a starting fps of 2200 should do.
Also, use a short, high pressure cartridge. These have the best "expansion ratio" and thus have the lowest muzzle pressure.
For your stated game, I'd recommend the .358 Win with as long a barrel as you can get. Published loads show 3031 and H-4198 give 2200 fps to 250 gn bullets with the lowest weight of powder. For short ranges, the .44 Mag with 300 gn bullets should be relatively quiet and about as effective.
Karl
PSE,
This may be a shot in the dark, but I would try changing from ball powder in your 7mm-08 to IMR-4064. I know that ball powder meters very well, but I have found them to have an extreme amount of muzzle flash. Many years ago, I remember reading that that was one of the characteristics of IMR-4064. It was developed to have reduced muzzle flash. That just might be your answer. Hope this helps...the9.3guy
250 savage with a 24" barrel or 257 roberts
6.5x55 with a 23-inch or so barrel. it is just one of those special cartridges that works well with minimum fuss of any kind. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
PSE, Welcome to the Campfire. I second exactly what Cheaha said: 7mm-08, 24-26", 140gr. bullets, RL-15 or RL-19. RS
Many thanks to everyone who replied to my question. There are a lot of good ideas and options. As 2525 said however, there does not seem to be any medical or engineering studies on this subject which I find hard to believe as I think there is a good percentage of middle age shooters that probably suffer from this problem. I'm definately going for the longest barrel I can but the trouble is so many firearms companies only built the shorter barrels in the 7mm-08 or the 6.5X55 which are the two calibers I'm considering. In most cases a 22 inch is about the longest one can buy. I'm thinking of getting a Tikka T3 lite stainless which is available in either of these calibers (the 6.5X55 is a special order however). This will at least give me a barrel length of 22.5 inches. This coupled with moderate loads that burn fast powder should help I hope. Again thanks for the advice and a great welcome for a new guy to this site. I like the attitude here.
I am one of those who has lost a large part of their hearing, from both shooting and work place. There are some fire arms that are definately worse than others. 44 mag comes to mind plus all the other pistol ctgs that big or bigger. There is also something about the 270 that seems particularly loud not even to mention the other mags. I have never shot a 6.5x55 or a 7-08. I do know that my 7x57, 257 R, 222R and 250 sav don't hurt my ears if I forget to put in the plugs. I wear plugs or muffs when ever at the range, just forget to put them in sometimes. I would suspect that the 260 remmy would be a whole lot like the 6.5x55. Years ago, I was looking for a 257 R to hunt with and durned near bought husky in 6.5x55 cuz I couldn't find one. Any one of the 3 are good deer ctgs in my opinion
PSE,
At one time, Rem made the M-700 SS BDL in 7mm-08 with a 24" BBl. Perhaps you might haunt the gun shows and come up with one. Also, the new for '04 CDl has a 24" bbl, I believe. Hope this helps...the9.3Guy
Hi PSE, 9.3Guy mentions the Rem 700 cdl that just came out, in 7mm-08 with a 24" barrel. I think this is a seriously nice rifle, for a reasonable price. I really want one. Here is a link to info about it:
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700cdl.htmAlso, for a few more bucks, Weatherby makes all their non-magnum rifles with a 24" barrel, including the 7mm-08. Here is one of them:
http://www.weatherby.com/rifles/lw_accumark.shtmlAnd for even a few more bucks, you could just purchase an inexpensive short action rifle (new or used) of the company of your choice and have it rebarreled to whatever caliber and length you'd like, 25", 26", whatever.
I hope your find something that works for you. Good luck!
I'll third the nomination for the new CDL in 7mm-08.
Ear protection is the first thing to do. The electronic devices work well and also have better sound proofing than the tiny piece of 1/4" foam that some muffs have. Wearing both plugs and electroic muffs at the range works well.
A long barrel is really essential. It will increase the expansion ratio and get the blast away from you.
Faster burning powders make a lot of sense. In the .308 Win IMR 3031 is not only super accurate but pleasant to shoot for instance.
Silencers are legal to own! They are also legal to hunt with in my state. One of our club members has one and you can hardly hear any blast. You can hear the bullet going down range and also hear it hit.
I find a 7mm-08 with a 22" barrel and RL 15 very noisy. It's not a good choice.
Finally you can still compete with the .22 LR. I wear ear protection even when shooting match .22 LR out of a long barrel as it helps my concentration. There more .22 LR matches anyway and it's year round unlike big bore.
Silencers are legal to own! They are also legal to hunt with in my state.
Whoa. Pretty sure you need some sort of license to own a silenced firearm. There was some discussion about this a while back on the rimfire board.
Yes you need a liscense for silencers and they can be a real pain to get not to mention extensive. However another idea along those same lines. There is/was a company out of Utah, called American safe arms I believe, who have a muzzle break venting into a sleeve around the barrel. When they first started making them they got in trouble with the ATF 'cause it worked not only as a break but as a kind if silencer. However after some legal work they compromised and last I heard their breaks will drop blast about 4 or 5 decibles. Which definitely enough to notice. However the contact info I have dosent work anymor so I am not sure what is going on.
PSE, I wasnt going to add anything as most of the bases have been more than covered here. EXCEPT that wearing hearing protection while shooting the .22LR should be always worn. I know it doesnt hurt to shoot the .22, BUT it probably does as much if not more damage than your magnum, not due to the high decibel (db) level but more to the higher pitch of this round. Not to mention the fact that it doesnt hurt so we tend not to wear protection. Here are two interesting links I found on shooting & hearing loss. I hope everyone checks these out! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
http://www.ata.org/members_only/pdf/gunfire_noise.pdfhttp://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtmlThe first link shows & explains how & why unprotected shooting hurts us. The second has an interesting table that shows the Db levels of many different calibers.
Enjoy
Mark Tabor, PA-C
Physician Assistant - Certified.
Hi,
PSE: you say that you are getting sensitive, but that you have used hearing protection when competing....was it insufficient, or was it overpowered by the sheer number of shots?
BTW does anyone know how bad a shotgun blast is? I find the boom not to be that bad, and even cheap plugs cut out a lot more of the blast that a rifle's sharp crack.
Bog, did you look at the links I posted? They list Db levels for shotguns, rifles & pistoles <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for those links, MarkT. I have seen a copy of a page or two from Kramer before, but I was not able to locate a copy of the original paper. As with the last time I saw it, I am a bit suspicious of the data presented.
I can't see a 20 ga. shotgun being noisier than a 12 ga. of the same length barrel. The 20 ga. uses less powder. It may be, though, that these dB ratings are frequency weighted. The 20 ga. would likely have more higher frequency content.
I also have to wonder about his claim that a 20" 7 RM is quieter than a 24" .30-06. The 7 has a bigger case, a lower expansion ratio, a smaller bore (higher pitch), and a higher working pressure limit. This just doesn't make sense!
dingus, by suggesting the .44 Mag, I was not suggesting PSE go try a revolver. I meant a long barrel rifle in this cartridge. I have to believe that for work under 100 yd, this would be one of the quieter rounds PSE might use for big game.
Karl
2525, think of it this way: the 20 uses slower powder, which should increase the pressure all the way to the muzzle.
As far as your original question, I think the bigger the barrel diameter, the smaller the charge, the faster the powder, and the longer the barrel, the better off you would be.
The suggestion of a 44 mag rifle might just be "perfect", or, if you would like a little more power, the 35Rem. Great deer round.
For moose, I would consider the 358, or 35Whelen.
From personal experience, my 7mag rings my ears, my Whelen does not. HTH, Dutch.
Edit: just thought of the "perfect" chambering: the 375Win.
PSE
I'll have some data here in a few days that may help you make your decision........some loads have a secondary spike in pressure that is higher than the initial pressure......yes, bullets leaving the barrel at 50,000psi.......in calibers that you would not think....
Charlie
Thanks to all who are helping in my decision to get a quieter rifle. Thank you Mark T for those links. I am now communicating with Dr. Kramer via e-mail and he has been kind enough to give me some good advice with regards to hunting and shooting. Charlie Sisk - Thank you as well -I am eagerly waiting for your information. In reply to Bog - I have worn good quality hearing protection (top of the line Peltor muffs) most of my shooting career but perhaps it wasn't enough or maybe I'm more predisposed than most to tinnitus - I just don't know. I've run and RO'd many matches and been exposed to hundreds of thousands of shots but always wore hearing protection so I don't know the answer as to why I've developed hearing loss and tinnitus. I know I have to live with it and not do things that will make it worse but I love to hunt and shoot and it would be a great loss to have to give it up. I've been depressed about it for a while now but I think I'm going to try to hunt with a quieter rifle and take up .22 pistol or rifle competition and see how it goes this year. I guess what I really regret is not seeing my friends out at the range anymore. Unfortunately it would make me too miserable just to go out and watch and not compete so I"m not going out at all.