I own a fairly light model 70, #2 contour, Edge stocked 300 Win. Mag. with 24" barrel. I get the 168gr TSX to shoot about 3200fps.

I mainly hunt moose, sheep, goats, black bear, with some elk and deer in lower 48. I also hunt in areas that have brown bear and/or grizzlies at times.

I was thinking of a 300 Weatherby for a change and wondered if it was really ballistically worth it or if it's more for nostalgia?

I want a rifle all-up at 7.5 lbs or less; I would stay with a 24" barrel. Also for multi-purpose hunts.

What trajectory differences would there be between those cartridges? Any experience to share?

counterproductive, you give up a great design to get rounded shoulders and a couple more grains in the case.
Stay with the 300WM

Given what you have the potential difference would be a waste of time.

I have a pair of Roys and 3200 with a 180 is no sweat in either of them. You have to decide if the little extra is worth it. I doubt any critters would notice a difference.

You leave out the Weatherby Mk V ultralight if you want a 7.5# full-up rifle, I suspect mine is 8+ ready to hunt.

W/O the added 2" of barrel, I believe you would be wasting time and $ for brass bumping up to the Wby round.

Allen

Nope ain't worth it...Keep it a Win mag.

IME there's 100 fps diff tween the two. I'd stay with the Winnie the Pooh.

And just so you know the rifle you describe sounds absolutely wonderful!

Dober

Had quite afew of both.If you had a 300 Weatherby,I'd say"keep it"...if you had a 300 Win Mag,I'd say "keep it".

Yes you can make a 300 Weatherby go faster with a 180,about what you get with a 165...in the end it does not matter;they're both great rounds.

I all but retired my West German 300 Roy.Darn Winny with the gain twist tube exceeds it with lighter weight bullets.It's only feet difference in 180 or 200 grain bullets.

Seems to me when a 30 cal 180 reaches 3K it's all good no matter the brass cylinder fueling the bullet. Anything beyond that is fuel for the tiny gray cells only...

Mike: It'e the freebore and larger capacity of the Weatherby; it does better with heavy bullets.In working up loads I noticed I could not get much more speed with the 165 than I could with the 180......course if you want to load to Weatherby factory pressures, different story...

The last batch of 165 BT's in Weatherby factory ammo that I chronographed did 3430 from a 26" 300 Weatherby M70 barrel.

I agree with everything that's been said so far, partly because I am such an agreeable guy (right!). But also note that I am a .300 magnum slut, so have a .300 WSM, .300 H&H, .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby....

But if limited to one, would probably choose the .300 Win.

Well, maybe the .300 H&H.

It would depend on how practical I felt at that moment.

Obviously you missed the part about it having a 24" barrel, not a 23"

Wow thats moving Bob.Forget what my 300 Win Reloader 22 165gr NP numbers are but she ain't cruising that fast.

Should add my Weatherby has a 24 inch tube from factory.Wish it was a 26 myself.

Too funny Powerguy-the last time I had a 300 tube on my 700 it was a 23" Krieger. First I had it in Winnie the Pooh and then I had it rechambered to the Bee.

Dober

Great elk Mark, congrats


Sorry for the hijack

I have owned a few 300 win mags, a 300 weatherby, 300 rum and a 300 shorty.
Given one rifle to do it all in NA and everything in Africa short of buffalo, ele and rhino I would build a 300 RUM with the following blue print.
My rum is a model 70 mag action, 24" mike rock #3 barrel, Talleys lightweight mounts,Williams bottom metal, Jewell trigger, Leupy 3.5-10x40, Echols Legend/Edge stock. All up, short ammo it runs a hair under 8lbs. I wouldn't want to go much lighter with any 30 cal mag. It also spits out 180 gr bullets around 3300 fps give or take with loads under max. You may or may not get that out of a 26" tubed Weatherby but you still will have to deal with expensive brass, a belted case, and the down sides to running high pressure loads.

Oh man, is that a Panzer? Looks to have a significant carbon footprint!

Yes it is.Tiger Panzer MK VI.

Brad: Geez...sounds to me like a 300H&H...or it's rotund, vertically-challenged contemporary....



Mike: Yes a 300 Weatherby,all-up,will pack the mail!

5% more case capacity...? All that I can add that may help you to sort this out is when both those cartridges are compared to a 300RUM. The RUM has 18% more case capacity than the 300 Win Mag and 13% more than the 300 Weatherby. The possible difference in terminal effects of the 2........probably not so much.

From there, I wish you luck.......

Hey now, it ain't fat, just big boned...

LOL!

300 Cartman

Sam:Put the 300 WSM and the 300 Weatherby side by side....don't they remind you of Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwartzenegger in "Twins"?

Bob, you do kinda have a point.
I still like the little fatty.

Where did you get that 4350????


Ingwe

It's empty, I just keep it around for decoration....(grin)


Powder Valley actually had some in stock, oh about 6 months ago.

We used to sell that stuff...


Back in the day....


Ingwe

Sam: The little fatty is good....has mild manners,which I like

Ingwe, I'm saving the remnants of that keg for the 257 Roberts and plan on getting a stash of RL17 for the two little fattys.
H4350 is beyond tough to find.


Bob, yeah they're not too bad but I wouldn't enjoy shooting anything much more snorty.

Are you gonna blood that Bob this season????

Ingwe

If I don't get a deer by Thanksgiving, Bob is going back home for some whitetail action(we might just have to smoke a little alfalfa fatty buck).
Still want to get up to the Breaks again though, hopefully this weekend.

Sweet...

I love the breaks...LOVE the breaks...

Ingwe

Me too, just not when they're muddy!


Back to the cartridge gack.
I bet the 300 Roy has a fair bit more of a thump to it than the WSM?

OK...

More thump on which end?

Believe it or not, I've never shot a .300 WSM..

Ingwe

I was thinking on the recoil end of things.
Hopefully we can meet up one of these days and do a little shooting. I'm sure you just can't wait to shoot such a fine cartridge!


Better hit the hay. Early road trip over to Absarokee in the morning.
Later.

'Night Bud..

Ingwe

Ingwe: Of the 300 "magnums" it's the most user friendly of the bunch IMHO...a trait it shares with the 300H&H round,since they are very similar in charge weights and speed.It still recoils a fair amount but tolerably....good choice if you feel you need a fast 30 but want to dispense with 9 -10 pound rifles and/or the neck snapping recoil of the larger 30's.An 8 pound 300 WSM is manageable.

Hey Sammer, was up at the range over the weekend. In the 300 WSM Kimber, 64.0 of Rl17 is giving 3,030-ish with various 180's. I think the 215M's might be the way to go. The rifle is getting more and more consistent and accurate as it gets more rounds down the tube, and can't help but think the Mag primers are helping. 180 Partitions with RL17 are going under and inch. This rifle is even starting to like 180 Accubonds, with one H4350 group going under 1/2".

+LOL!

Your weiner gets bigger too. (grin)

Ha!

If shooting 200 grain + bullets my personal choice would be the 300 Wby. Something to be said about slamming elk with a 200 NP leaving the muzzle at over 3,000.

I have heard exactly that analogy many times Bob.....so in my book that'd make the WSM a good thing..

But without too many more analogies....I'm old school...and they don't get much sexier than the sleek .300H&H

Ingwe

Can I get some Chordite to go with that? (grin)

I must be a wimp, but the stuff you guys are talking about sure makes my shoulder and neck get a bit jumpy.

180s at 3300??? Do you get free chiropractic work or something?

For your intended use your .300 Win Mag should work.


I will add that 30 some years ago i shot 3 rifles to check zero for some
older guys. A .300 H&H, a .300 Win Mag Ruger 77, and a Mark V .300
Weatherby with a light 24" barrel.

The first two were a joy to shoot.

The lightweight Weatherby kicked the s$&%t out of me, literally picking
my torso up off of the bench. I shot it twice and called it good!

Conclusion to me was that a light weight .300 Weatherby was not fun to shoot.

Each person will apply their own law of diminishing return to your question.

I don't think that you will see a significant increase in field performance with
the higher velocity of the weatherby.

I don't think I'd be changing to a weatherby. Maybe if you were thinking 26'' tube and the higher velocity was a big goal.

Either way I think the big 30s are at their best with heavier bullets. I'm a big fan of the 200 Parititons. Espcially for the big variety in animals you are after and/or may run into.

I have a Tikka T-3 Lite in .300 Win, and it jumps quite a bit off the bench. I replaced the factory pad with a Limbsaver, and that helped but it is still no fun to shoot off the bench. I'd rather shoot my .300 Wthby with magnum contour barrel and an HS-Precision stock off the bench than that very lightweight Tikka!

I have had the Weatherby for many years. My brother re-barreled the Mod 700 for me when he was going to Yavapai Colleg's gunsmithing school. He also trued up the action, etc. and the gun shoots 3/4-inch groups consistently. I went with the Weatherby so that I could try to emulate either the .300 or .338 Win and shoot heavier bullets as fast as the lighter bullets from the .300 Win. Now, I realize it doesn;t make that much difference in the real world...and the Tikka is a joy to carry up the mountain.

After shooting a 300 Weatherby this weekend, I will agree.

What I said almost 3 years ago is still just as true today

I have a 300 win mag that u could shoot all day.Its a Stevens 200 with a muzzle break on it from Willams gun sights in Daveson Mi. Kick like a 243 or 25-06 shoot it with one hand off the bench with 180 gr winchester silver box group right aroung 3/8 at 100 yards .So I ask what more could u ask for

The cartridge boxes for .300WBY are cooler than the plain
.300WIN MAG cartridge boxes.

An awful lot of what passes for recoil is wrapped up in stock design and weight.Atvarious times in the past I've had 300 Wins and Weatherby's around and have hunted with both;toss in the 300H&H for good measure.

Back in the 80's I found the 300 Weatherby was the fastest even if by a narrow margin,but the H&H was the most manageable of the three in rifles of like weight.

I recently shot a 300 Weatherby on a M70 whose owner ditched the McMillan Classic on it and replaced it with an Echols Legend.It made a difference all right.

One other thought. For me its not the recoil for me thats hard to manage its the muzzle jump. If a gun recoils straight back its much easier to work with than a gun that dances around.

That's for sure B. One of the reasons I want the barrel weight out front and not in the stock or action. Also one of the reasons I still love my old Browns.

4 me, a stock of 26-28 oz with a barrel about .65" at the mzl is a wonderful combo with most all rounds. Especially the mags.

Dober

On a side note, I was at the range the other day and 4 of the 5 rigs around me had mzl breaks on them. Very glad it was time to leave...

And I'm not sure how to say this nicely and it don't apply in all cases but it appears that often those breaks are on guns who's owners don't shoot them very often. Um, was that PC enough?

Dober

Agreed. I owned a NULA in .300 Win Mag and the recoil wasn't awful, but for some reason I couldn't keep the muzzle down despite the straight stock. I eventually sold it for that reason. Also had a Mark V in .300 Weatherby that went about 8.5 pounds with scope and was doing something like 3300 FPS with 180 factory loads and muzzle jump was much less. Don't miss the NULA in .300 but do miss the Weatherby a little.

DMM-I still really like your idea of a Forbes 25/06

Dober

I agree and thats one of the reasons a Rem 700 with a Rem Mag contour barrel and a edge stock is a thing of beauty from a ballance standpoint..

One other thing. I have no first hand expiereance, but I have heard magnaporting really tames down the muzzle jump. I am kicking over having my RUM ported when its ready for its next tube, which should be soon.

IMHO the difference for big game hunting is that winning the Weatherby Award when that was a big deal was more likely to happen with the Weatherby cartridge in a Weatherby rifle.

Beyond that no practical difference except price and availability of cases.

That said given a choice between two otherwise identical rifles I'd take the Weatherby and I still wonder at the long ago purchase in .300 Win Mag by somebody else of a Colt Sauer which was available in either and fairly heavy as such things go. Maybe it was a choice of nicer wood.

The differences for big game between 300 Win Mag and 300 Wthby Mag, are $1 per shell, compared to $2 per shell. That's about it. And maybe 100-200 fps at best, if loaded with the heaviest bullets, otherwise they are identical.

the reloading specs on some 300 mag family cartidgee are exactly identical, even though the case volume is a lot different. For instance 308 norma mag vs. 300 wthby mag, exactly the same powder charge for 150 grain bullets, for some powders.

we're talking the same girl in a different dress

It's really a question that borders on nonsensical, because you can fire 300 Win Mag ammo, in a 300 Weatherby. If you buy a 300 Weatherby, you basically get a 300 Win Mag and 300 H&H included, free of charge- because it will fire all 3 cartridges just fine.

no different than shooting 38 special out of a 357 magnum handgun, with the shell headspacing on the rim. In the 300 belted mag family, the shell headspaces on the belt, the case just fireforms to the chamber. If the caliber is the same, and the case is long enough to put the bullet tip into the throat lead of the barrel, it will fire out of the gun.

if one already owns a 300 Wthby Mag, it makes absolutely no sense to buy a 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag, or even a 308 Norma mag. If you want to try out a 300 H&H or 300 Win Mag, you can just buy a box of shells and shoot them through your 300 Weatherby. They are all basically the same in terms of performance. If one wants to try first time the 300 mag family and doesn't want the wallop, blast, recoil of the 300 RUM or 30-378, the 300 Weatherby is the only choice, and best choice, for this reason.

I would not magna port any rifle barrel, the blast effect on your muzzle-side ear would be dramatic, and your ear would ring for 3 days from firing one shot, or worse. It would require earmuffs just to hunt with. The dirty little secret about porting any barrel is, recoil is reduced, but muzzle blast is greatly INCREASED. But again, it gives the firearms companies one more thing to sell you.

Dunno if it was PC enough, but I see that around here too....

Agreed. The only muzzle breaks I see are the ones sitting in gun racks in the local gun stores, gathering dust, because no one wants them.

A muzzle break usually means someone bought too much gun for leisurely target shooting or the type of hunting they actually do. IMHO, it's like putting a band aid on a cancer tumor. A gun like that may be perfect for 500 yd. and 1000 yd. professional competition, but not shooting paper targets at 100-200 yards in the back field, or old shale pit.

There's an old saying about guns that are too light and recoil too much, the old timers liked to say "it kills at one end, and maims at the other"

With muzzle breaks, the new saying is: "shoulders will heal, but eardrums don't"

I'd rather have a gun that recoils too much, and put a recoil pad on it, then one with a short barrel that's too loud and blasty. I know a few guys that hunt with big magnum handguns, and have to use earmuffs. Hunting with earmuffs on, can sort of take the fun out of it.

Ain't that the truth! ! !

You're actually recommending the practice of firing a .300 win mag in a .300 Weatherby?

I read something similar about shooting 7mm Rem Mag shells in a 7mm Weatherby. Not recommending the practice since I never tried it.

Actually there's a lot of difference. The .300 Winchester and H&H will shoot low and with less velocity than in rifles chambered for those cartridges. It's like shooting reduced powder charges in the .300 Wby. You'd probably be lucky to get 30-06 velocities.

The only reason to shoot .300 H&H rounds in a Weatherby is to fireform cases, the need for which vanished about 1950.

It always amazes me that posters don't think the 200 fps advantage of the .300 Weatherby over the .300 Winchester (Hornady Handbook maximum velocity loads) means anything and yet will ooooh and ahhhh about the .458 Lott's 70 fps advantage over the .458 Winchester.

Its not that's its meaningless, its just I am not going to put up with a weatherby cartridge to net a paltry 100fps. When I say 100fps I base this on a velocity of 3200 for a 180 with a weatherby and 3100 for a win mag with the same weight bullet.

These are great names... 416 Rigby, 375 Holland & Holland, 300 Weatherby, 220 Swift. Need I say more?

BW, I have a .300 RUM nicest gun! Mine is a Rem.700 SS, RMEF edt.3X9 Z,Mag/Na/Port screw off brake and a R3 pad. This rifle with brake is like shootin an 06. Huntin thred cap on and go. No one feels recoil when a heart beat is in the X. As for short mag. fade which never took off well why bother just get an 06, Lovein the RUM....later

YEAH-----

300 WINCHESTER Mag.

It has proven it's worth while others have FADED ! ! !

What happened to the 300 HH?

What happened to the 308 Norma Mag?

Others never got off the ground!!!

I don't know but would NOT be surprised if there are MORE Win Mags
In use than Bees

AFAIC the small gain in performance is NOT worth the $$$$$
Both for the Wby rifle, ammo, or brass.

On game I could never see a lick of difference between them,but "like" the Weatherby a bit better.

Nice long neck,fewer magazine constraints and since "most" 300 Wins are built on abbreviated (blocked) H&H actions,I figured why not use up the length?

Plus the 300 Weatherby with some factory and handloads will really make the chronograph chime.....from the 26" barrel of a rechambered pre 64 H&H,the Weatherby factory stuff did over 3400 fps with the 165 BT.....and there is something satisfying about a 200 gr Partition or AB at over 3000 fps....that'll work!

I handled a M70 yesterday recently rebarreled by Gene Simillion in an Echols stock and it ws about as nice a 300 Weatherby as I have had in my grubby mitts.It isn't mine but frankly I can't wait to shoot it....at least a little.That stock will make it manageable.

I use both and like both, but if I had to choose I'd go with my 26" Weatherby. I just hunt whitetails with them and use lighter bullets and as such the Weatherby does shoot flatter, but that may be do to the couple extra inches of barrel too.

Good to see someone on this thread who actually owns, and shoots, a 300 Wby.-

I've had mine since the mid-'90's, and used it for about everything you could imagine. It now sits in a McMillan Edge stock, and with scope and rings, tips the scale at 8 lb. 15 oz.
Recoil with this stock, and its Pachmayr Decellerator pad, is very manageable.
My current 165 gr. Barnes TSX handloads go out the barrel at a chronoed 3390 fps, as does factory ammo- zeroed at 300 yds., it is a hair over 2.5" at 100, and 8" low at 400 yards.
That's the prime reason I own and shoot the 300 Wby- it's darn flat, and very accurate to boot.
I've only taken one game animal with a .300 Winchester- that was a Spanish Ibex at an even 250 yards. Almost any rifle and caliber would have worked- but if that Ibex had been out at, say, 350 yards, I would have greatly preferred to have had my Weatherby in hand.
The area I was hunting in had very strict rules about shooting- two misses and your hunt was over. A wounded Ibex, not recovered, game over. And we're talking about a very expensive game animal.
I understand that a lot of fast .30's, like the Wby, UM's, Lazzeronis, etc. see use for the really big sheep, like the Marco Polo and Argali, in Mongolia and the 'stan' countries. Flat trajectory at long distance is likely the primary factor for their use.

I am with the others. Not enough to really matter and the 300 Win Mag is a GREAT round.

I have killed a ton of game with a .300 Roy, and it has always been my goto gun. Find myself liking the two Winchester versions more and more...

The animal you shoot will never know the differance. The real differance is only on paper and maybe in your mind.

I've had a 300 wby on a sako and a 300 rum on a sendero. Both were fast and accurate but that sendero had a super nasty fast kick with 200 nabs at almost 3200fps. I don't have either now anymore. If you can't do it with a 150gr mono out of a 30/06 at ~3000fps you need a bigger bullet imo. Not a faster one. I have now skipped the 30 cals all together (other than the 30-30) and use a 7mm rm for smaller stuff and a 338 wm for bigger stuff. The 338 wm btw weighs ~7.5lbs ready to hunt and is much nicer to shoot than either of my fast 30's.

When I decided to get a .300 I thought it would be a Win. I'm not a fan of belted cartridges but that's just me. I also read some where that the .300 Win. Mag. has taken more game then any magnum made. What turns me on with the RUM is it's a 30.06's big brother, and as .300's go at top of food chain.If Rem. never brought it out I'ed be carryin a Win.....later

The price of the ammo. Haven't seen any 300 Weatherby at Wallyworld yet for $20 a box. Not holding my breath for that also . On the killing end, i bet their aren't any animals that can see the difference either. Magnum man

Maybe if nostalgia is of interest. The 22-250 is really a better round than the swift, the ultra is better than the Bee and a 416 rem mag is much more practical than a Rigby. The .375... no warts on that one!

How is the .22-250 better than the .220 Swift, nostalgia, performance, etc., all being considered?

DF

I have the same question.

Are any rifles currently chambered for 220 swift? Is ammo widely available?
Besides that, the 220 brass I have dealt with absolutely sucked, not to mention the amount of case trimming required given the case design. Last but not least, there is very little actual velocity increase over the 22-250. IME anyways.

+1,000

Yep -

IF a Win Mag won't kill it.....


you need much more than a Bee!!

General reply, not at jwall.:
Always amazes, or confuses, me that guys pi$$ and moan about one to two dollars worth of brass and powder when this subject comes up. Same guys show up at range with $50,000.00 + diesel rigs, complete with lift package, steam ship exhuast pipes, and useless tires.
I wanted a 300Bee, so I got one. Vanguard SUB MOA with B&C stock, Decel pad, about 8 pounds with scope. Shoots great, and yes, no animal will know the difference.

Its not the price for me, I just dont buy into weatherby's and its not from lack of trying.

calikook -

All that matters is that You or I am happy.

This thread is about the differences for big game between the 2 cartridges.

I have NOT checked recently but the last time I did, the Wby brass was noticeably higher than Win mag.

No Harm, No Foul.

Jerry

I use W/W brass in my Ruger #1. Good stuff, no problems. Plenty of ammo available at my shop.

I'm not knocking the .22-250, as it's a great round. But, as you framed your statement, implying that the .220 Swift is somehow a lesser round, I was taken aback somewhat. The .220 Swift has a distinguished history and performance record. Mine is a keeper.

DF

I am sure yours is a keeper, but time has passed the swift buy and the 22-250 trounces it in sales.
The brass I spoke of was Winchester and they are the only ones who sell swift brass that I have seen and its a seasonal run at that.
I was in Gander mountain today and the didnt have a single box of 22o swift ammo.
The Swift IMO is sort of like the 6mm Remington Vs .243. The public chose the 243 and the rest is history.

calikook -

Just checked Midway.

***20*** Weatherby 300 Wby brass = $38.99

---50--- Winchester 300 W M brass= $28.99

FYI for ANYONE interested.

Well, I really lucked out. 100rds of new WBY brass in two 50rd MTM flip top boxes..........$5.00.

SHE appearantly didn't appreciate HE ran off with the secretary and stuck her with the bills from a failed business!
Women showed up at general club meeting and unloaded about twenty thou worth of guns, reloading, archery equipment, and cutlery for pennies on the dollar.

I hear ya.

But, as you brought it up, I have a .244 Rem (6mm) but no .243. So, maybe I'm a curmudgeon from the past...

6mm Rem, IMHO, is a better round, longer neck with no pressure variation issues. The public and the market may not always be right...

DF

I have a 6mm Remington too. Its inferior to the .243 only in that it barely fits in a 700 short action.

Well, if it fits...

Does that mean you have problem with longer bullets, etc.? I've never played with a magazine fed 6mm Rem.

Mine is a 40XB single shot. Of course, no problems there...

DF

From my experiences with eight 300 Win Mags (22" to 26"), a 308 Norma (21") and a 300 WBY (24"), you can only compare "apples to apples" if the barrels are kept to the same length. Otherwise numbers can easily be "fudged". Then, there are other matters, like freebore, tight chambers and barrels that can make a significant difference from rifle to rifle in either chambering.

Having said all that, I've had 2 rifles, a 300 Win (26") and a 300 WBY (24"), that gave superb results from each in velocity and accuracy. So, I've used that experience, which was considerable, to make an evaluation between the two chamberings for my own purposes. I have NO prejudices for or against either. I very much like them both.

So, here is my objective evaluation (for my purpose):

1) Given excellent barrels with tight chambers, the 24" Weatherby would make 3185 fps from 180s using either IMR 4831 or RL-22. It couldn't quite make the 3200 fps suggested by Hornady's #4. But it was superbly accurate. (But I did chronograph loads for a fellow club member who used the same IMR load in his 26" MK-V and it recorded an even 3250 fps... exactly what Whetherby advertised for their 180gr factory fodder at the time, from a 26").

2) My only 26" 300 Win was just as accurate as the Weatherby (1/2" - 3 shot groups at 100 yds), and slightly better in velocity. Top MV from that rifle was 3215 fps from 180s. (BTW, I believe BOTH should use 26" tubes. A 2" shorter barrel WILL lose 50 to 100 fps in each, and I fail to see how 2" in hunting where these are suitable is gonna make any difference in handling!

3) In my summation: I slightly prefer the Winchester for a few personal reasons, but I've concluded that apart from likes and dislikes over rifle styles, that the actual difference in performance between the two, given the above quality of barrels that are equal in length is about 100 fps in favor of the Weatherby using the same powders and bullets.

And, BTW, the 26" 300 Win gave 3000+/- fps from 200s.

And, for any doubters, consider this: Nosler's #6 shows up to 3160 fps for their 180s and up to 2972 fps from their 200s in a 24" test barrel for the 300 WINCHESTER Magnum! My velocities were from a 26", so if Nosler's manual is realistic, then the 40 to 50 fps increase I received from a barrel 2-inches longer is realistic.

And, my brass in either could easily be reused 10X plus. Never a loose primer in either!

I think (a 300 magnum in) either version could arguably be considered the best all-around rifle/cartridge combo for any big game hunting in North America.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

The 416 Rigby, the 375 H&H, and the 300 Wby. Nothing introduced since each came into being is much of an improvement. Newer stuff may be a little different but for the sportsman/hunter there has not been a big gain. I should have said the 220 Rocket rather than the Swift. It was an oversight on my part.

I have never been too concerned about cost or if I can get ammo at WalMart. If I have to rely on WalMart for ammunition then I should be using a 30/06 or a 308 or a 243.

Well?

Yes it does and your stuck with one seating depth with as well.

Hmmm...

What about an aftermarket box with a bit more length?

DF

Thats a option, but then you have to mill the action, and they record of longer moag boxes feeding correctly is pretty spotty.

I guess if I was going to build one, I'd use a LA.

My 6.5-284 is on a pre-64 M-70 donor that was a .243. I knocked out the mag block, used '06 ejector and bolt stop. Wouldn't need to do any of that with a M-700, LA.

DF

And oddly enough I hunted Africa with all three and for when I'm feeling "plebean" I do also have an 06 and a pocket T-shirt to fit in at Wal-Mart

Now my day is wrecked, someone had to mention Wal=Mart.....later

I'm off to Wal-Mart myself too!

Stick with the 300 Win Mag. The small increase in velocity is not worth the increased recoil, limited avaiablity of ammo, and dealing with the increased muzzle blast.

+1

I've hunted with them both, currently have an Ed Brown Damara in .300 Win Mag and am not in the market for a Wby.

DF

I can't believe this thread keeps going on and on and on....

According to one rule-of-thumb about internal ballistics (proven both theoretically and empirically) here's about a 2% difference in potential muzzle velocity between the .300 Winchester and Weatherby. That's about 65 fps with typical 180-grain handloads. Wow!

Yea, but Johnny! It's the name; it's faster (as you mentioned) by a twit. Trump card! , A marketing managers dream.

And so it goes.
George

Yep!

Which is exactly why the .30/.378 now outsells the "old fashioned" .300 Weatherby, according to one of my sources at Weatherby.

That's why the 300 Bee kicks butt on the Winnie the Pooh mag @ 301 yds...

Dober

I have had 3 different 300magnums, a 30-338, a 300 WM and a now a 300 bee. My favorite was the 30-338. From a reloading standpoint I like the Bee more than the WMag.

Well, at least some of us aren't on the "Ray Atkinson" thread!!


How 'bout a little credit? ?

Pretty paltry increase in velocity for having to deal with a Weatherby...

I hadn't considered that. Definitely a plus. Carry on!

A slightly off-topic question-
Are you more likely to find 300 wby, or 300 WM ammo, in remote parts of, say, Africa?

I've never been to Africa, but I would shoot .300 H&H in a Weatherby if needed and I would shoot .300 Win Mag if in a real pinch, and although the Win Mag in a Weatherby is not a great practice, it will work if needed.

If I had to pick one it would the 308 Norma mag...

The real life test is to look at two or more of the same animals. Each shot with a different 300 Magnum. Shot in the chest at the same distance. Can you tell a difference in outcomes?

Hell no,,,,pass me the good ol 06 please

Definitely!

My .338 win mag is magnaported. It jumps like a 30-06. I can shoot a box through it in a teeshirt and my shoulder hardly notices.

And I hope you pack your ear plugs out hunting...

Never noticed it to be any louder than my 06 directly behind the muzzle. You don't want to be to the side with out ear protection.

With regards to recoil. I like the .300 Mags too and for whatever reason have a .300 Win Mag M70 CRF Standard Sporter, A Rem 700 LSS .300 RUM and a .300 Weatherby Ultra Lightweight. All have 26" barrels. The .300 Weatherby is the lightest and for me it is actually the most pleasant to shoot. I think it must be the stock design.

Yeah, mine too.

My current 300 WM is M 70 Winlite, 26" bll. Believe it or not, it is very easy to shoot. (180 gr bullets)

I never notice the recoil when hunting, and that's the most important time. I bought this rifle in 08 and have killed several deer with it.

I 'PROBABLY' should not say this but... I have not missed a single shot with it. (so far)

Ed Brown Damara in .300 Win Mag.

Light, accurate and with Swaro Z3, 4-12x50 BT and Outdoorsmans turret set up for 180 gr. NBT/NAB's at 3050 fps, it's very effective.

DF

Thats a nice rig, Dirtfarmer.
Here is my favorite rig. A model 70 magnum action in 300 ultra mag.

And a couple of other 3 hunreds I have owned.

300SAUM


300 win mag

This summer, I picked up a M-70 Stainless Classic in .300 RUM. It's the donor action for a .404J build, the parent ctg. to the RUM family. I was careful not to shoot it, following the rule to never shoot a donor.

I may have fallen in love with it...

DF

Wow, that is a very nice set up! What a good rifle to have for just about everything.

The Weatherby had a 20 year head start, and a tremendous reputation before the first Winnie came off the assembly line... It was an obvious choice for those who had seen some of the world in the war and wished to travel and hunt far away places...

O'Connor and Page both had Weatherby awards before the Winnie was introduced... (R.W. always had a flair for marketing)

The Weatherby was the king of the hill, and rightfully so, for some 30 years... But the practicality, and business-like simplicity of the Winnie could not be denied...
Rising like cream, to the top of the bottle, the Winchester fast .30 made huge strides, even after being orphaned by the rifle that spawned it... The Winnie is the Labrador retriever of the magnum rifle world. it simply does what a rifle needs to do, with less fuss and bother than any other fast .30...

It baffles me a bit to consider that the H&H is so revered by many in the U.S.
The Winchester (and the Weatherby) holds the same attraction for most who abide in other parts of the world...

In the past, all it took for a cartridge to be revered was to have the right writer champion it. (Ok, maybe not all but mostly.)

I have zero interest in a H&H.

I don't have one and am not in the market for one.

It is a real cool old round, though.

DF

The sad thing, Ed quit making them. He's focusing his attention on his high end line of 1911's. Guess there's more money in those.

The 704 action is quite unique. Ed designed it to be controlled feed, but still have a round bolt like a M-700, sorta the best of both worlds. Even with steel bottom metal, it's very light and well balanced. It does have a brake. Ed says that magnums with light barrels are more accurate with a brake and he has evidence to support his theory. It has a Shilen barrel and a Jewell trigger from the factory. The stock is Ed's design, made by McM and sounds like Edge fill, although it's not advertised as such. From the weight, it must be Edge or equivalent. This is a very well made, well thought out rifle. The mag box is full length magnum and the throat works out perfectly for longer rounds. Just well done with top quality parts. Most rifles I acquire get tweaked or worked on by me. This one is pure perfection, absolutely nothing for me to do, even if I wanted to.

DF

76grs of RL-22 gets me to 3085-3100 in my 26" Sako 300 Winchester. 80gr of the same gets me right at 3250 in my 300 Weatherby. While I prefer the Weatherby, the Win Mag is the more logical choice.

The above load clocks at 3050 fps. with low S.D.'s.

I can push it faster, but this is an accuracy node, so that's where she stays.

Here's a piece I did, comparing the McM Legacy and the Ed Brown Damara.

Edited to add link.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4999702/McM_Legacy_vs_Ed_Brown_Damara

DF

I've owned ,hunted with,and loaded for multiples of all three(300 Win, Weatherby,and H&H)....shot them all a lot,too. I'd just as soon grab one as the other.

The 300 Win Mag did not come about because it represented any great technological advancement or improvement over the other two,other than squeeze comparable ballistics into a 30/06 length action.

Since most 300 Win Mags are chambered into rifles having H&H-length actions,I guess I have asked..."What was the point"?

It was cheaper to make the 300 Win Mag fit an 06 magazine rather than do the extra machining to a M70 to fit a 300H&H;the same logic spawned the 458,the 264,and the 7 Rem mag...all the "short" belted cartridges.Plus the cartridges fit in some of the Mausers and other military actions available in those days.It's a minor point but I hate short case necks and tolerate them because I have to....

Shorter bolt throw between an 06 action and a H&H holds no advantage at all if you are used to running a bolt.

The Weatherby is the fastest of the three,but it generally takes a 26" barrel to prove it.It will push a 200 gr bullet over 3000 fps,and a 180 will top 3200 without too much sweat although most go about 3150.A 300 Win mag with 180's tops out about 3100 and a 300 H&H comes so close it doesn't matter.70 gr of IMR4831 used to give me 3080 with a 180 from the H&H.

The 300H&H is a work of art...nothing feeds and functions slicker and with less effort from a staggered box magazine than the tapered case of a 300 H&H magnum. The Brits were into reliability and functional perfection under tropical conditions,unlike American designers, who like straight tapered "improved" cases loaded to sky rocket pressures,and where max velocity yield is the name of the game.

Mostly this is nit picking...I have hunted with all three and they are all great cartridges.One of my favorites from years past was a 300 Win Mag on the M70 H&H action, 24" Krieger stainless,set up for a 3.5" OAL with 180 bullets...it would do 3200 with a 180 but I ran it 3150.Been equally happy with those rifle chambered 300 H&H and Weatherby also,all M70's...what you can do with one, you can do with the other.

5 pages so far, what's that about one page for every 20 fps diff........

Dober

Some great loads...I have all three calibers, but the Win. is also found in three different rifles in the safe..my favorite is the old Model 700 in the Win. for only one reason..the miles we have traveled together, the places we have been and will likely not see again, and the memories of the game taken with the old custom BDL..When I built the rifle in 1970, I intended to make a .300 Wea. with no freebore..when I compared the loads, the Win. was almost a twin to the Wea. with no freebore, plus brass was cheaper...I love them all..from coyotes to elk, they are great killers and very accurate..

Yeah, Dober.

But look at how much fun we're having...

DF

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about two of those rounds (the H&H and Weatherby) when I bought the 300 Win Mag.

I have owned 4 model 70 classics in 300 rum and everyone was a great shooter with the factory barrel.

Trying not to think about that...

Was afraid that would be the case...

Guess I want a .404J more than another .30 cal big boomer.

DF

The other two is tha Ooriginals...

Well from a for just being able to buy a box off cartridges if needed most places are going to stock 300 Winnie's, from a just plan cool factor, there is the 300 H+H, just lay in 500 or so cases and you are all set, for the coolest boxes well Roy did a great job with that tiger on th box. I shot a 300 Roy for a bit in the 1970's All in all I never warmed up to any of the 300's including the 300 WSM I currently own. A 7mm RM dose every thing I need to do and then some, common sense would have me shooting a 30-30 for the kind of deer hunting I do these days. but when dose common sense have anything to do with these sorts of threads. If I ever was to jump on the 300 band wagon, it would be the Holland and Holland version and 200 to 220 gr bullets oh wait a minute I shoot a 338 with 225's and 250 gr bullets never mind!! You are missed Emily Litella !

And with further refinement came the 300 Ultra, which is better in every way than the rest H&H, Win Mag and The Bee...

Ben yes the RUM is the fastest....recoils too much for me.

Bob nailed it. My hunting partner hunts with a M70 Sporter 300 RUM. It is set on a B&C Medalist with a Zeiss 4.5x14. It is a BAD MF'er off the bench, or prone. I've shot a bunch of 300 Win's and WBY's in that weight range and they weren't in the same league of recoil. It is fast!

It is really a sweet cartridge, throw a brake on the rifle and it is a cream puff to shoot. I just don't need much more out of my 300's than what a WSM/Win Mag gives me.

Beretz my pal has a 300 RUM with a MB....I run for cover when he breaks that thing out at the range Standing behind him or to the side I can feel the concussion down to my ankles.

Those things were invented by the Devil.

You aren't kidding. The same buddy has a Sendero with a brake on it, 300 RUM as well, and the concussion you describe is about right. It is a killer cartridge, that is for sure.

Can you define "better"?

Actually JorgeI I feel that the important part of what you're asking is the "you define".

Point being, what makes these rounds better is largely an individual thing and isn't a one size fits all. Personally for me of the big 30's the one that's more better (4 me) is the WSM cause I can build it in a lightish package. Yet it's still has just enough weight to it so I can shoot it a ton and feel on top of my game with it and yet it's light enough for this mid life fella (53) to carry on the hunts that are toughest for me.

Just a thunk or two

Dober

shooting nearly identical remington 700s chambered in .300 win and .300 wby, the weatherby beat me up off the bench, and the winnie seemed tame in comparison.

the only real difference in rifles was that his factory m700 .300 wby had a slightly heavier scope, and my custom barreled m700 winnie had a slightly heavier contour barrel.

we were both shooting 180s loaded to max velocities from the same manual.

If someone puts a muzzle brake on any rifle,that tells me they have to MUCH GUN!

John yes. The 300 Weatherby (depending on powder choice)operates with charges in the mid-80's and the 300 Win in the mid to high 70's......you go up in powder charges and you get a corresponding increase in recoil and blast from the larger case.

This is nitpicking but at some level you reach the tipping point in recoil and blast that makes one "tolerable" and the larger cartridge a bit over the top.

I think one reason the 300WSM has become so popular is that (like the 300H&H),you get within 75-100 fps of the Winchester and 150-200 fps of the Weatherby,but with lighter powder charges,which means less recoil and blast,so I agree with Dober and if on the market for a 300 Magnum today(considering my age I'd grab the WSM or a H&H and run with it.A 180 gr bullet at 3000 fps is a formidable game getter.

Years past for me the 300 Weatherby was the limit in a 300 magnum and if I were going to tolerate more recoil than that I wanted more bullet weight and diameter rather than more velocity.

Balancing all this stuff with manageable recoil and rifle weight is why I became a 7 mag fan.

All this is interesting! I have been through the paces you guys are marching to some years ago. I liked .300 (and .338) magnums from both Win. and Roy. Loved M70s in H&H.

I just turned 75 and no longer use a magnum of any diameter - except for an inherited 7 mag. that I keep because of sentiment, and it is on thin ice. .30-06, .308, and even .30-30 are my cartridges of choice these days for .30 bores, and the first two work even at long range. They kill stuff dead "close or far".

My last M70 .300 H&H was in my possession about 30 minutes. Bought it at a good price, took it down the street about two miles and turned a profit of $400 plus a new 3-9 Leupold.

I am NOT making fun of you. As said, "Been there, done that," and it was fun! Would I do it again? Yes, as surely as the sun came up this morning. jack

That is a very, very well-reasoned personal definition of defining "better" and if I were looking to go the light package route that would certainly be my choice. Bob also makes a good argument regarding the 300 Win Mag in that if most are made on long actions, why bother and not just get an H&H or a Weatherby unless of course, operating costs is an issue. I think the best of the WSM family is the 270 as it does give you a substantial edge over the 270 whereas the 300 WSM does not over the bigger 300s.

I can get 3250 out of my Weatherby and 180gr bullets with about 80 grs of RL 22powder as I stated, with the 300 Win Mag 76gr H4831 gives me about 3100 and the H&H gets me to just over 3K with 71gr of RL22. I have no idea what the RUM gets as I have a phobia with anything with the name "Remington" on it but the increase over the 300 Weatherby yet with even more powder.

One can also define "better" as case life, recoil and of course "killing power" and the last I really don't think anybody can really define that. I will tell you that in my view the difference in killing efficacy betwixt them and the 06 is significant and I don't care what the 06' cultists say! . And again I'll say that from a practicality POV, the Win Mag and WSM are the logical choices.

JT/jorg: You can tell the guys who have been around a lot of 300 mags and this all takes time and effort to be able to wade through so much excruciating minutia and have it all make sense..LOL!

I guess we have all had fun doing this or none of us would have bothered.....I especially like the "shooting game" part!

The RUM is better because you don't have to deal with Weatherby anything, the case is a modern beltless design, the accuracy potential is better in my limited experience, gets 100fps+ more velocity,the rum is cheaper to shoot if your limited to factory ammo, and ammo/brass are easier for me to source locally.
The rum does recoil pretty good, but if you can shoot a Bee well a RUM will be no problem.
I recently had Eddie Fosnaugh put a brake on my RUM for something to play with and it now kicks about like a .270. My perception of the noise is its about the same as the 7mm Weatherby I was also shooting that day.

To me, the Damara is about as light as I'd want to go with a .300 mag. The WSM's sound good, but how light is light? And, from what I hear, feeding can be a problem with some of them.

I've used the .300 Wby. and don't think I'd want a harder kicking .300 than that the Bee. I do like my .300 Win Mag. With the turret, accuracy is king for long range shots. The real fast ones may buck the wind a little better, but with good bullets/high B.C's, a lot can be accomplished in the 3,000+ fps range.

IMHO,

DF

"modern beltless design"? I think you better check into the who came first chicken or the egg theory. 100 fps? and how much more powder? Factory ammo? no doubt the Weatherby's are more expensice. Recoil's not an issue with me so that's a wash. As to accuracy potential, well, that cn be quantified but again how much better do you need that MOA or in my case half MOA?

If your using powder burnt to justify any magnum your barking up the wrong tree. Factory ammo for a Weatherby is a mail order proposition for me. I can get RUM at Dunham's, Gander Mountain, etc.
BTW the RUM case is a modern beltless design. You can say its based on the 404 Jeffery, but its really not identical in the way a 300 Weatherby is based on 300 H&H. Some people will say that belts are no big deal, but it sure is nice not having that ring of stretched brass just forward of the belt that often happens with factory chambered rifles.

Dirtfarmer,

The first .300 Winchester Magnum I shot was a NULA Model 28 weighing right around 7 pounds with scope. It shot VERY accurately and didn't kick too much at all, even with 200-grain Partitions at 2900+ fps.

But the NULA stock fit me very well, and I was younger then....

I really like the RUM. I have owned several 300 RUMS and all were more accurate than any Win or Bee that I have owned/shot. Maybe it has been luck of the draw or maybe the case is more accurate.

I think the key to shooting any 300 mag is you have to shoot it. You can not take it to the range and shoot it 3 times before season and be used to it. It takes trigger time to get used to the recoil and blast. Once you are used to the recoil and blast though nothing kills non-dangerous game like a fast 30 caliber in my opinion.

Dink

Not trying to be a smart a$$ jorge, but where is the logic? 40.78 fps/grn, 92 rds per/pnd, with the Win@3100, 40.625 fps/grn, 87rds per/pnd, with the Bee@3250. 150-185fps gain for 5 rounds? Not much to make any difference to me.
Thanks.

calikook - from a handloading pt/view only. Now figure in the cost of brass. The bee's cost won't settle the national debt but the difference is noticeable/significant.

The ONLY point I was trying to make was that beltless cases came BEFORE belted and besides belts have abslolutely zero effect on the discussion at least to me they are a completely transparent issue when it comes to cartridge performance or reloading. The bottom line is aside from the cost of brass and the added powder required to get you that extra 100 FPS, there is really no difference in the hunting fields.

Yes, better is very simple. Weatherby designed the 300 Wby in 1944, long before the Winchester magnum in 1963. It is true that he was improving the H&H chambering, but still long before the 300 Win. mag.

The 300 Ultra-Mag still doesn't equal the 30-378, close enough to call, but still way overbore. You have a case of diminishing returns here, the 300 Weatherby does sit in the best spot in the 300 line up because anything less is not enough of too much, and anything more is too much of not enough...

Works for me Shrapnel! Oh and tell your buddy Mike I love my Webleys!

The Damara is 6.9# without scope, so it's a bit heavier than the NULA 28. I've never handled a NULA, but am intrigued by what I hear and read about them. Melvin Forbes seems to have perfected the light rifle with his stiff stock/full length bedding, vs. the conventional stiff action/free floated barrel concept.

And, I fully appreciate your statement, "...and I was younger then..."

DF

Well said...though have noted my threshold denoting "too much" continues to recede with time...

Never heard it put quite like that. Had to read that one several times...

DF

As I said on page 10 or 11, I got a hell of a deal on some brass. But that doesn't make or break any decision on caliber. Do people really wear out thier brass that fast?

Always funny that guys will put a $2000.00 set of heads on a hobby race car, spend $200.00 to play golf, but whine about $2.00 worth of brass.

JMO, not looking for a fight here. Got to go to work, everybody have a great day.

Nor am I fussing or trying to fight.

Earlier in this thread I posted current prices on the brass.

From memory - Wby brass was $39.00 for 20

..............Win brass was $29.00 for 50

The cost of the brass is my biggest gripe/complaint. Beside IMO, the 300 WM is TOO close to notice any diff. IIRC Mule Deer posted there was .02 (%) diff. in the cartridges.

Have a goodun!

You can buy 300 WBY brass from Remington at a much lower price and they work fine

Just for curiosity, how about a price?

Those I listed are current from Midway.

That's where I bought them from last year. Nickel plated too.

I heard it best said, as the difference between the Weatherby and the Winchester is about 25 yds of Point Blank Range...

Like Spinal Tap said about the amplifier, "this one goes to eleven".

Wish I could find another jilted exwife though, that brass was CHEAP!

All things considered I would rather not deal with a belt for the reason of the case stretching ahead of the belt that occurs with most factory chambers, and the fact a belt serves no real purpose.
And your 100% right there isn't much difference between any of the 300 magnums, but since we are sorting fly chit from peppar I prefer the RUM for the reasons I mentioned.

Ah the heck with this, I'll take a 7 Mashburn Super with a 175 Nozi and go fill arks....some more...

Dober

To heck with all the magnum crapola... build a lightish 30-06 and go hunting.

Well, there is that,too....for the renegades among us.

Thing is that 175 NPT (3100 fps) will pretty much stay with a 300 Roy-180(3200 fps) for trajectory out to 600...I don't look at energy charts much but I think the two are rather close there,too.

Don't know about the bergers and such....a guy could shoot to find out.

just saying.

Didn't I once give you a bumper stick for your truck?

Dober

Yeah, but there's a couple of wrong numbers in it... replace the 27 with a 3, a 6, and an extra 0.

Refresh my memory, I can't recall what cal did you use to fill your ice box last year?

You were one smart elk hunter last year...grin

Dober

Ha... well actually, shot a bull with a 30-06 and a cow with the 270... was shocked of course, they both worked.

Amazing--especially with the .270. Everybody knows no .270 bullet has an adequate ballistic coefficient.

Hey guys,

This hair splitting is of the level of an argument over rearranging deck chairs on the RMS Titanic!

Ask yourself this. If you see two dead Elk could you tell which one was killed by which 300 Magnum?

Another question. When does it make sense to go to an all you can eat for ten dollar Steak House and ask for $20 worth?

Ah, I have to call BS on the 270 story.....Everyone knows they bounce off...

Pass the .30-20mm Lahti, and hold the the wussy stuff...

Which one hit the terra firma quickest...grin

Dober

Well, the spine shot 270-cow of course!

The outcome woulda been the same trading places for sure. I just have an irrational affinity for the 30-06.

See the .270 puts them on the turf quicker...grin

Side note, as we both know there's absolutely nothing irrational about the .06. If everyone in the free world that I grew up with hadn't been such 06 fans and would of been .270 ones instead no doubt I'd be more of an 06 fan myself.

Can we say obstinate...

Dober

This thread is officially hijacked.

.270? If you really want panache go with the .280 Remington. Ive done a far bit of work with one, including moose and it has always did the trick. Mine is currently stoked with 154 Horny flat bases, and I have kicked over taking it elk hunting this year.

Nah, the 280 is for Americans that really want to be Europeans.

BW, when you headed this way?

That's about it in a nutshell.

My rancher buddy Jim told me the only reason he became a 7mmRM user is he was sick and tired of hearing nothing but "30-06" and "270" growing up... yeah, he's obstinate too.

Guess I was lucky to grow up in a non-hunting family... I had no such prejudices, so chose the best. Naturally.

B: Nah....BTDT a few times. I got bored....

I couldn't tell the difference and neither could the animals...

Yeah, I did one 280 as well... I never could find any true love with metric rounds.

Blasphomous!

Everybody knows the .280 is the coolest... I'm taking mine this weekend! Grin

Wed morning. I plan on leaving after I sleep a few hours...coming off a night shift..

Drive safe my friend... call me if you have time.

Wow.....22 pages.

Simply put, this is the absolute truth. The original question was between a 300 Win mag and a 300 WBY mag. Mashburns and all the rest of the sub 30 caliber junk is not allowed. Furthermore the reference of not enough and too much is applied to the 30-06 which, like it or not, is the benchmark by which all calibers are measured...

When this was stalled at somewhere 'round 16 pages I read the entire thread. Got some catchin' up to do.

This may eclipse the 260 Rem vs 6.5x55 thread.

The rule of thumb on the Campfire is the less actual ballistic difference between two rounds, the longer the thread.

LOL, never thought of that. Absolutely true and a great observation.

So,if I was to start a thread about the .270 Win and the .280 Rem,being almost two peas-in-a-pod it would go for infinity?

None of the .270/.280 Campfire threads has ever been formally closed. They're still wandering around somewhere in cyberspace, searching for a conclusion.

My guess is that someday a real rifle loony will post on one of the threads again, and we'll once again ride toward infinity.

What people do to kill time.

Now if you really want some imigination to read, toss in the 7x64 and stand back.

Anyone for a .240 Weatherby Vs the .25/06?
Only those who have also shot the 6mm/06 can answer.

25-06 is mo better..

How about a thread on the 7mm-06 vs. the 280 Remington?

That's not fair.......such a worthy comparison should also include the 7mm Remington Express, you know that!

No,no,no, start a thread about the 7.62x51 VS. the .308 win VS. 7.62 NATO.

Yeah .308 you know it.

My best use for a .308 was to take off the barrel and put another caliber on the action...

Having gained a little more experience, I would say that the 300 win mag, in the right rifle and hands, has more advantages.

Anyone else feel the same?

Mark wad always right when it comes to best choices. It was always objective appraisal on his part.

Probably the same folks who would argue that the 300 Roy is so much better than the WinMag are the same ones who would say there is no difference between a 270 and the 280 Ackley...

Thank you.

No..Not at all

I *think* (correct me if I'm wrong) factory speeds for 150 grain bullets are:

.300 WM - 3290 fps

.300 WTBY - 3550 fps

.300 RUM - 3450 fps

The RUM seems to be seriously underloaded.

I took my new chrony to the range yesterday and was able to get 3500 fps from my Win. Mag. From the pressure signs, I wouldn't be comfortable using that load, but 3400 fps is very realistic.

Fastest handloads for the other two I've seen listed are:

.300 WTBY - 3650 fps

.300 RUM - 3874 fps (!)

As far as my limited experience on plains game is concerned, I think the more the better on the big stuff (eland, giraffe) (and 200 grain premium bullets) but for the rest, .300 WM is plenty.

I've killed plenty of BG with both of these carriages and the differences in the way they kill amounts a piss hole in the snow.

Bob,

I'd like to think if you had posted this on page 1 it would have been the end to the thread, but we both know differently. I've done the same, but probably to not nearly as many critters. That said, my Remington KS 300 Wby is like an old friend and I think that matters more than caliber.

Bob did post on the first page of this thread when it started in 2009, saying pretty much the same thing but in a different way.

Just wondering if some of the people posting here now realize the thread started back then, came back in 2012, and is now dragging itself gutshot into 2015.

It might or might not be worth noting that the original poster (brooksrange) hasn't posted on it since starting the thing.

if you google .300 Win Mag vs .300 Weatherby, this thread pops up at the top of the list, it will live forever.

It happens ALL too often, but I've never read such a funny description of the phenomenon.

AKbob/Mule Deer: Hell no I didn't even think back that far LOL!

Consider my post retracted and please ignore.

Bob (inNH),

I didn't realize how old the thread was or that you had posted back in 2009. My point was only to 1) give you credit for many years of hunting and a passel of critters, and 2) agreeing with you that there is very little to no difference between the two under field conditions.

But what the hell, truthfully,there isn't always a lot of new ground to hash.

If this had been a 338 WM vs. 340 Wby. thread it would've been DRT.

First result from google:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/96534/Re_338_mag_vs_340_wby_mag

Only 8 pages. Definitely more knockdown power with the .338 caliber pills.

AKbob: No there isn't! LOL!

How dare you diminish the opportunity to rebeat a dead horse.




(It seems no small irony to me that the 300 mag 'differences' get nitpicked to death while they "ain't enough difference between the 338 Win Mag and the 340" to warrant the bigger case - while the 338 case is substantially smaller than the 300 Win Mag case………..but we just lean hard on the 338 and all is good! )

About $20.00 per box!!! memtb

Man, I can't believe this!

Back in the 80's {I think}The invading Californicators into Colorado, all wore Bumper Stickers saying "If You ain't got a 280,You ain't got Schit"
[minus the C , of course]
Anyone remember that ?

This is one reason this thread still lives!!

Might as well turn this into a train robbery ,

280 - 160 gr - 55 gr 4350 - 24" bbl - 3000 fps = Elk Medicine

Since the first left hand 700 hit the market .

What's always interesting to me about these threads is nobody ever posts an instance where they shot at something with, say, a .300 Winchester Magnum and the animal ran off wounded because it wasn't shot at with a .300 Weatherby.

Or the shooter decides not to take the shot because he was only packing his .300 Winchester instead of his .300 Weatherby.

Or the elk laughs at him as it runs off over the mountain, hollering, "If you'd just been carrying a .300 Weatherby instead of the wimpy Winnie I'd be headed for your freezer and taxidermist!"

I'd be willing to bet that many many other calibers would do just the same...

Yup!

Bullet location and bullet performance count for everything. The former being most important.

But what would we do in without all of the possibilities? After all, we are loonies, and proud or it.

Steve

You pay for performance bud.

I took several elk with the 300 Win Mag. The first wast taken with 150 gr. Remington factory ammo because my reloads were in plastic aftermarket boxes and they would not ship my 200 gr. reloads in them. I got off the plane in Jackson Hole and the only factory ammo I could find was the mentioned Remington 150's. Hit said elk broadside thru the ribs and lo and behold the big SOB dropped. Found the very flattened bullet under the hide on the far side still containing some lead. Range 90 yards. The rifle has a 26 inch barrel, shoots mighty fine for the guy I sold it to (don't know why I sold it as I am building another) and he is very happy with his rifle that he uses for all his hunting with 150 gr. Remington factory ammo. Go figure. Would I prefer a Weatherby over the Winchester round, no.

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JB, these criteria should be the filter for every silly 'comparison' thread that comes along.

There has long been a shortage of animal categories to equal the perceived cartridge categories.

Couldn't give me another Weatherby anything.

I used to make fun of a friend who used the 300 Wby for deer, but if you are a one rifle hunter for many years it was the ultimate flat shooting hard hitting king.

Mine is a Vanguard with a 24" barrel and it shoots 180 ttsx's very well. Is it worth the extra powder and brass cost? Hell I don't know but I haven't been out pricing 300 winnys to save money. I paid less than $400 including adding a Timney trigger so I think I am money ahead.

My cousin has a relatively accurate 300 win and he thinks it would be nice to have the Weatherby. I think he sees the 600 yard gong getting hammered and assumes it is that extra 125 fps. The fact that elk haven't run off after being hit may play a role as well. I don't have the heart to tell him none of that matters. I never thought id own a weatherby but looking at ballistic tables as a kid I thought they were top of the heap. If I already owned any of the big or fat 300's it wouldn't be worth it to change.