Recently I have started using Hodgdon Lil'Gun powder in my 22hornet and have been extremely pleased with the results. However, it has been suggested that more consistent velocity can be realized using small pistol primers as opposed to small rifle primers. Any observations on this?

Hi msc,

Some folks use small pistol primers in the .22 Hornet. In fact, there is a member of my rifle club that uses them all the time, but with cast bullets ONLY (and low pressures). But a lot of guys get away with things that seemingly wait around for me (so they can bite me in the butt).

Friend, if I did that, I'd have a problem instantly. Pistol primers have a softer cup than rifle primers. They are specifically made for the lower pressures and weak hammer fall of handguns.

Personally, I use Winchester WSR small rifle primers in the .22 Hornet. They never fail and accuracy is excellent.

Hope this helps.

I also use WSR primers in the Hornet, as well as CCI 400 BR's. Both do excellently with Li'l Gun. Shot a 5-shot group out of my Ruger #1B the other day with the 40 Ballistic Tip, 13.0 LG and the WSR that went just over .5, at just over 3100 fps. It won't win any benchrest shoots but will do PD's out to 300+!

I don't subscribe to the notion that gun topic writers know all the answers to all the questions. That said there is an article in number 209 of the Handloader Magazine about just what you have asked. The article was pinned by Ross Seyfried, and he states he uses small pistol primers in at least some of his 22 Hornet loads. I believe it to be safe to use pistol primers in the 22 Hornet at the pressure it works in. Most of the loads for the Hornet are in the low 40's and a 357 Mag also operates in the low 40,000 CUP. I also believe Lil'gun powder needs a rifle primer to light it off. I use rifle primers in my 38 super, so much for what the primer box says. Common sense goes a long ways here.

Dan

DFC, they may not know all the answers but they sure as hell know more than I do and I for one don't appreciate you putting 'em down or putting them on notice. I appeciate all they have to offer and the fact that they provide us with answers from their vast experience----for free, yet! What more could we ask? Your post could have done very well without the first sentence. It was aggrivating to me and I'm not a writer. I hope it doesn't cause any of the writers to leave the board or to even think twice about their value being here. Get off your high horse, will ya?

DFC,

That kind of suggests that Ross Seyfried knows it all.

I test-fired rifles for Kimber for many years. During that time, I saw a number of .22 Hornet rifles that blew up so badly that you could put most of the pieces in a shoe box.

After seeing this and personally shooting many thousands of rounds of this inherently weak case, I would be the absolute freakin' last person to suggest using pistol primers in 22 Hornet rifle loads.

The bravest handloader is the one who hasn't had an accident....yet.

Nope, friend, I sure as hell don't know all of the answers. I would suggest that none of us does and the best we can do is to help each other.

Steve

Mule Deer,
I also have a #1B in 22 hornet. With glass bedding, Sight rib relife and a canjar set trigger, my hornet will shoot .5 or under with it's prefured load, using 35 gr. Vmax, a max load of W-W 296 and CCI small rifle Mag. primers.
I've shot several "bughole" groups with this fun rifle.
Virgil B.

DFC, I have been shooting a Hornet for over 40 years. I have three of them presently and would aquire another in a moment if the rite one showed up. But under no circumstances would I use pistol primers in one. I can safley shoot my original Savage with the same loads my Ruger #3 and my T/C Contender get. Although I have loads worked up for each gun that each favors I can see no reason not to use the proper componants. Suggusting otherwise is just plain bad juju, some one is gonna get bit. If you subscribe to unsafe practices please keep them to your self.

Common sence you say. You seem to be lacking in that commodity as shown by your statement comparing the Hornet brass to the 357. That is like saying an aluminum pop can is as strong a piece of schedual 40 pipe...ain't gonna happen on this planet bub. The working pressures are just a number what is happening to the metal of these cases is dramatically different between the two. Hornet cases are very prone to brass flow where the the 357 is very stable this alone should raise some flags for you.

Have a life....



Bullwnkl.



Bullwnkl.

All I will say is that maybe DFC did not come across too well due to this being the internet, it sometimes is hard to get your point across the way you want to.
But I agree that I would not use pistol primers, and I appreciate the writers and others that give us free info, and appreciate the way Dogzapper responded and took the high road.
Bill

"You seem to be lacking in that commodity as shown by your statement comparing the Hornet brass to the 357. That is like saying an aluminum pop can is as strong a piece of schedual 40 pipe...ain't gonna happen on this planet bub."

I really don't think the aluminum pop can and the schedule 40 pipe is a good example.

I don't believe I was comparing any kind of brass! I only correctly stated the working pressure was approximately for both of them. Whether the brass flows or cracks has no bearing on the working pressure of the subject cases. I assumed anyone that read what I wrote would understand it without me having to explain it further. Had I wanted anyone to "read between the lines" I would have double spaced the typing. The fact that a 22 Hornet will blow up an action is not disputed by me.

"If you subscribe to unsafe practices please keep them to your self."

I did not in any way say I used pistol primers in my 22 Hornet loads, I did however point out that a noted gun writer stated in print he did. I do however feel that the practice is safe, unless the reloader has trouble reading the reloading manuals and is overloading, in that case he should use rifle primers and a blast shield.

Dan

Steve

I'm not suggesting anything. If you have a problem with pistol primers in the Hornet take the issue up with Ross, after all, he wrote the article not me. Its in Handloader Magazine, February 2001 issue, number 209. As a matter of fact, I'll mention it to him.

Dan

In a very real way, the cartridge case and the primer become a gasket. The "gasket" is all that stands between the shooter and an unbelieveable amount of hurt.

I blew up a rifle once, the very first Kimber 6PPC. It was absolutely not my fault, Sako factory ammo in a rifle assembled by unknowing dickheads. You wouldn't believe the burns, the pieces of steel in my right hand, the fractured slivers of laminated wood that pierced my left hand, the blood and the pain. I still wear the scars.

The only good thing, other than my escape from Kimber, was that it made me a safer handloader and it made me more capable of advising others by writing.

If I did use pistol primers in the .22 Hornet (and I most assuredly DO NOT), I sure as hell wouldn't write about it. A writer is, at least to some degree, responsible for his flock of readers. Writing about a breach of safety crosses a line that most of my colleagues would not cross.

Writing about it makes it OK for others. And that is wrong.

Friends, it isn't worth screwing around with any factor that would possibly risk the integrity of "the gasket." I know the pain.

Steve

PS The 6PPC barrel was blown a measured forty-two yards downrange. Go figger. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And on that most classy of notes, fully intent on claiming respite for the rest of us on the back of zapper's forbearance, this issue, and by that I do not mean the use of pistol primers in a Hornet, has now been officially cauterized.



Being a webmaster is mostly fun, always challenging, and sometimes daunting, but despite my best intentions, every once in a great while, despite my most strident supplications in private, I need to play the role of the heavy.



I have just done that, and not without some degree of contemplation over the last few weeks and tonight. Those of you with a not-so-long memory surely have figured out what and why.



Sometimes, very rarely, there just ain't no other way, and it was obvious where this was going, yet again , despite my private remonstrations. This one needed to be nipped in the bud, and now I only regret my earlier forbearance!



It's a damned shame.



Rick

Rick: All you can do is what you have to do.
We all appreciate this site and the people that frequent it and offer us advice and information free for the asking, that is why we all keep coming back.
You created a very nice place and I guess sometimes you have to deal with unruly guests.
Bill

Steve, thanks for the response. I didn't mean to set off a minor s**t storm. I thoroughly enjoy shooting the hornet. It is in fact a Kimber model 82 and that particular action is not so strong as to invite experiments in pressure. In fact some loads listed as safe using 296 would lock the action up tight. 680 and subsequently 1680 were about the only powders that worked until Lil'Gun. It started life as a Cascade model but has since been rebarreled and restocked and is now a very accurate custom rifle built to my specs. Isn't Lil'Gun amazing as to the velocity one can get using it in this tiny cartridge?

Yes, Lil Gun is fabulous stuff.

You should see Johnny B. shoot his T/C Hornet with the stuff. We had a pleasant afternoon shooting prairie dogs together a few years ago and it kept me scrambling with my .223 to stay with him. The man gave me a lot more respect for the Hornet and Lil Gun.

Steve

Rick, you are DA MAN!!! Thank you for your prudent, expeditious hot iron treatment of the antagonistic "bleeding" sore. You did the right thing.

John and Steve, keep the good stuff coming <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch

Does anyone here recommend blowing these out to a K or do you feel it is fine as is?

Just my $0.02 for the fire storm...

I have been using small pistol primers for years in the Hornet.
Both the "Standard" Hornet in a Mod 54 Winchester, & a K Hornet in a C-Z 527 American. I have found the Lil-Gun to be on the wild side as far as consistancy of burn... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Suffered through a seperated case on the K model with standard primer. The same load will hold a nice little group with small pistol primers... This lot # anyway... Go figure??? Try them and make notes! See what they do for your gun & loads.

Side note: One thing for sure, Lil-Gun changes a bunch lot to lot. More than any other powder I use. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Pat

Thanks for sharing that experience. I have read for many years folks recommending the use of small pistol primers in
the hornet. I think that the remington # 6 small rifle primer is
suited for small cases like the hornet. It is said to be 'milder'
than regular small rifle primers. bb

Steve, I just got back from the range where I was chronographing some Hornet loads. I had some loads primed with Fed 100 small pistol primers. I did notice when assembling the round that the primers felt soft when I "squeezed" them into the primer pocket with a K&M priming tool. What was most noteworthy, however, was I did have the firing pin pierce one round. Imagine that. I thought that was solid confirmation of your advice. Maybe Fed small pistol primer cups are softer than other brands. At any rate, the other rounds were loaded with Fed 205M small rifle primers and the results were 80fps average increase in velocity with a lower SD. WW brass, Fed 205M, 13grs. Lil"Gun, Hornady 45gr hornet bullet= 3035fps avg out of my rifle.

Not my party,but the "K" is the better mousetrap IMHO.

Make that WAY better.................

I searched the subject Hornet v K Hornet last night and found 6 pages of discussion about this from last spring. I understand the importance now of a properly cut chamber, an issue you emphasized. Who is the gunsmith that so many of you there use? Thanks.