Back in 1969 when I was in sixth grade I shot my first deer with my grandfathers 7x57 with a mauser action. Used this gun untill I was a 9th grader and my folks got me a 7mm Rem mag. Seeing all these 7x57 posts makes me want another one.
My problem is I nothing about mauser actions .... anyone want to take me to school?
What to look for, what's the differance between the Mark X, Fn, Husquarna, and any others I should look at.
What's the differance between a small ring and a large ring and why is one better.
Any good books to read?

Thanks, Greg

Some good starting places:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=351/k=/t=0/guntech/

http://www.mausercentral.com/forum/

http://www.98mauser.com/

Bruce

Simple question, complicated answer, because the Mauser was such a popular action that it was widely distributed and copied - indeed, most modern bolt actions (with the exception of the multi-lug bolts) are modified/simplified Mausers designed for easier manufacture (i.e. cheaper).

Mauser went through a series of models. Prior to 1893 all their models had a protruding magazine except for a couple black powder models which are mainly of historical interest.

The 7x57 cartridge was actually introduced with the 1893 Spanish model, but the last, and best, Mauser was the Model 98, which was made in large ring (receiver diameter 1.4") and small ring (receiver diameter 1.3") versions. Usually you can tell the difference between large and small ring receivers by looking at where the ring joins the left sidewall - with large ring receivers there is always a step-down to the left sidewall, whereas with small ring receivers there usually is no step-down. The one exception to this that I am aware of is the highly prized Czech VZ-33 and G33/40, which do have a little step-down. The large ring Mausers are considered better for magnum cartridges, but either large or small ring is quite adequate for the 7x57, and the small ring is a couple ounces lighter. There is also an intermediate length action which is about 1/4" shorter than the standard 98 which is well suited for the 7x57.

The Model 98 was originally produced by Germany, but sold and adopted by many other countries. It is the model that gunwriters mean when they refer to a "modern" Mauser action. It was built not only in Germany but also Czechoslovakia (Brno/CZ), Belgium (FN), Yugoslavia, Mexico, etc. It is a strong action not because of its metallurgy, which is carbon steel, but because of its design. Properly adjusted it is one of the most, if not the most, reliable actions, with excellent gas handling in the event of case rupture, which used to be more common than it is now. Its large claw extractor and fixed ejector system are the comparison standard.

As a sporting action, its drawbacks have to do with its bolt handle and safety, which in unmodified military form are poorly suited for scopes (remember that when it was designed, rifle scopes were basically non-existant), and its direct acting double-stage trigger, which while simple and reliable, is heavier than many modern riflemen would prefer. These are the areas where most modern Mausers are modified. In addition, in many modern Mauser actions such as the FN (Belgian) and Zastava/Mark X (Yugoslavian) the left side of the internal receiver collar is milled out as a production shortcut, which compromises gas handling, although the likelihood of cartridge rupture in modern ammunition is very low, so it is more a theoretical risk than a practical one.

So, good modern modified sporting Mausers include:

FN (Belgian) - also the basis of some J.C. Higgins, Western Field, Browning, High Standard, and early Husqvarna models. The Browning and FN versions are somewhat pricy, the Husqvarnas (model 640) a little less so, the private label brands, e.g. J.C, Higgins (Sears) and Western Field (Montgomery Ward) least expensive.

Zastava (Yugoslavian) - Interarms Mark X, Remington 798, more variable in quality than the best actions

Brno (Czech) - 21H/22F (small ring) and ZG-47 (large ring) - pricy particularly as collector interest increases.

The Husqvarna is a special case, because early post-WW II rifles were built on FN actions, then Husqvarna developed their own (small ring) action on a modified 1896 Mauser action, which does not contain a number of the safety features of the 98 Mauser but because of its superior steel is considered as strong as any modern action.

Some military Mausers (can be sporterized with modified bolt handle, aftermarket trigger, low scope safety) include:

GEW 98 (large ring German)

VZ24 (large ring Czech)

Argentine 1909 (large ring, made by DWM in Germany, prized for its exceptional finish and trigger guard bow floorplate release)

VZ33 and G33/40 (small ring Czech)

98a carbine (small ring German)

1910 and 1936 Mexican (small ring Mexican) - designed for the 7x57 cartridge, slightly shorter action than standard 98.

For reading material, Ludwig Olson's "Mauser Bolt Rifles" (available from Brownells) is considered the standard text.

Another good reference which covers many bolt actions including Mausers and many others, is Frank de Haas "Bolt Action Rifles"

Thanks Jlinn222, I've been going to ask the same question.

I've never studied the Mausers, but keep thinking I want one. There was a commerical Mauser in 7x57 that sold on gunbroker last night for $500, it had the stock styling I was looking for, but I don't know enough to feel confident in a purchase.

Whats the difference (visually) between the 98 and the other earlier Mausers? I'm sure somebody that knows would think they're as different as daylight and dark, but what is it that you should look for that tells the difference?

Will do some studying tonight on the websites provided as well.

98 or Pre-98:

Since some of the military spotting features can be changed, one of the most reliable methods is to look at the rear of the bolt.

The 98 bolt rear is larger diameter than the rest of the bolt body, and there is a safety lug on the bottom. The pre-98 bolt is the same diameter at the rear and there is no safety lug. In the photo, the 98 bolt is on the left.

Bruce

bcp is correct that the 98 has a third safety lug which is missing from the earlier Mausers, however you have to get a look at the bolt for that. The most obvious visual difference to me is the bolt shroud/sleeve, which is at the rear end of the bolt. At the front of the bolt shroud on Model 98 (just behind the bolt handle) is a gas-deflecting flange which is larger diameter than the remainder of the shroud/sleeve. This is a patented feature of the 98 which is absent on older models. Looking at the silhouette of a 98 vs, say a 93 or 95 Mauser, if you follow the bolt sleeve forward from the rear it forms a straight line on the earlier models but has a little bump up on the 98 just before you reach the bolt handle.

The Husqvarna models that were modified from the 98 Swedish Mauser also have this flange (which was presumably copied from the later FN streamlined bolt sleeve that lacks the sleeve safety), but what the Husqvarna lacks is the internal gas collar in the receiver ring. That was also a patented feature of the 98 system, and among other things makes the 98 easier to rebarrel, according to gunsmiths, than any other bolt action rifle.

After having messed around with a lot of Mausers over the decades, I'll start by saying that Jlin222's long post is a very good overview.

Now I'll provide my own opinions, based on my experiences:

1) It's silly to use anything except a 98 Mauser action.

2) It's also silly to use anything a commercial action such as FN or Mark X these days--unless you just want to spend the money in order to say you have a sporter on the 1909 Arentine action, for instance.

When military actions were really cheap this was different, but these days a good (no pitting, desirable model) military 98 action can cost as much as an FN or Mark X, and you've only just started. It makes more sense to buy an action that's already scope-ready, and may even have a decent trigger and safety.

While FN's are more finely-finished than Mark X's, it doesn't take much to polish up the problem areas of a Mark X (generally the slot in the tang).

Plus, an older Mark X has a good hinged floorplate, and a decent adjustable trigger. You may or may not want to replace the trigger-safety with a Winchester Model 70 style safety on the bolt shroud.

Many FN actions, on the other hand, have non-hinged floorplates and pretty funky triggers. Both work OK but aren't as nice as the Mark X hinged floorplate or trigger.

Very often you can find complete Mark X rifles for $350 or less, sometimes even in 7x57. The Mark X barrels were pretty darn good, and if you find a 7x57 it would probably shoot very well.

What Husqvarna did with what they called their "improved mauser action" (or 1640 action) was take the 96 small ring action and bring it up to 98 standards, but with modern (1950's) metallurgy. The result is a very strong action in a lightweight configuration. This action has a safety feature that the 98 lacks and that is both front locking lugs are solid. There is no split in one for the ejector.

I have an old Herters J9 rifle chambered in 6mm. I would like to replace the stock. It is built on a Zastava Intermediate action. Comparing it to photos of a Mark X, they appear to be almost identical. Any thoughts? Below is a photo of one that was for sale here at the fire

The safety on that one looks just like the Husqvarna safety. Are they all like that or did someone install a Husky safety?

mausers are over rated, but people still build rifles and spend an insane amount of money making an old beat up military mauser action into an expensive rifle, to me they are insane, why anyone would take for instance a VZ 24 that has been road hard and put up wet, sloppy bolt when opened, scrubbed receiver ring by some overzealous communist and try to make it into something, its polishing a turd, IMO.

the nicest mausers at least IMO are the huskies and the browning safari's these guns are normally in excellent shape, the bolts not sloppy ala VZ 24 and beat up military actions. the bolt release on the husky can be covered making a very clean looking action, the ones I have seen were also a very deep nice blue.

with that said the best refinement as a hunting rifle of the mauser is the winchester model 70. the winchester has a 3 POS safety and that big claw extractor and the modern things we all like on a hunting rifle, a close second is a ruger, gun snobs will laugh at these comparisons but keep in mind they are the same ones saying the new south carolina model 70's suck and are not anywhere near as good as the pre 64's even though many pre 64's look like they were machined with an old butter knife.

So I have two very nice 1909 actions. They are stripped, so no collector value is involved. I bought them many years ago for $150 each, with thoughts of building a 7X57 and 257 Roberts. They would make an ideal three gun battery when added to a 375 H&H.

I see on Douglas' website that I can have them barreled nicely for $460. I'd like a three position safety, the bolt handle forged, the receiver drilled and tapped for scope mounts, etc. Who does a good job on these actions? Or, is there someone who specializes in this type of buildup? I plan to stock them myself.

Thanks for the info guys. That's what I like about this place, people are all willing to share what they know.

Greg

I disagree, I have quite a few rifles in my 2 gun safe's. Only one mauser but it is my favorite because I have never seen another like it. it is an Interarms Whitworth single shot (not a mark X). also has an awesome 8oz trigger of unknown origin.
If it came down to selling this action or my new $1300.00 BAT I would sell my BAT because I could buy another.
RC

Jlin222-

That was a very good write-up!!!!!!

Good job!!!

I enjoyed reading it......Thanks!

Well, shoot!..... I guess I'm just going to have to throw this one in the trash bin then.







-Bob F.

That Herters J9 looks a lot like an Interarms MKX because it IS an Interarms MKX.
As a functional sporting action, the Mauser 98 is far from overrated. It is simple, rugged, and reliable as a stone. Although the design is over 110 years old, it is strong enough to handle cartridges far larger than those for which it was designed.
I have been gunsmithing professionally for nearly 35 years and was a reasonably knowledgeable amatuer before that. In that time, I have never seen a mauser with a broken firing pin but, if I had, I would have been able to strip the bolt and replace it without any tools. I have seen one broken extractor on an old, rusted mauser which didn't look like it should even fire. The chamber was so rough, the owner regularly used a chunk of wood to beat the bolt open to extract the shell. I've never seen a broken bolt stop or ejector.
Having said all this, Mule Deer is right; it doesn't make economic sense to build a rifle on a military action. You have to want to do it to pay for the modifications or you have to do it because you like to and can.
The Model 70 Winchester is related to the mauser in that they both have two locking lugs up front. That's it.
On a tenuously related subject, I have a copy of Advanced Gunsmithing by Wayne Vickery who was a gunsmith in Boise in the thirties and forties. Now, Vickery was a customer of my grandfather's automotive shop in Boise, Idaho so they were well acquainted. In 1941, when he was 15, my father got his first high powered rifle. This was a '93 Mauser which was re-barreled with a new Remington barrel chambered in 7x57. In addition, Vickery altered the bolt handle and installed a Lyman receiver sight. The total cost, according to the note Dad made in the book, was $25.00. GD

I could get to like Mausers if the recoil lug was made three times bigger and moved to the front of the action and if the tang area was much bigger. Sounds like I just described a Model 70

There is no standard Mauser '98 action. There are many variations within the category "Mauser '98".

Paul Mauser developed and patented a number of ideas that became the '98, including the magazine and ammunition clip. He developed an entire series of Mauser rifles (Models 67/69, 1889-91, 1893, 1894-95, 1896 and finally the 1898). Each was an improvement over the previous one.

Many nations adopted the Mauser concepts and the US was required to pay patent infringement payments to Mauser for the Model 1903 Springfield rifle (clip and spitzer bullet).

Adhering to the Mauser concept of internal (to the stock) magazine, controlled feeding, stripper clip, etc., the main variations include action length, receiver ring diameter, metallurgy, etc. Between manufacturers, interchangeability of parts (except for the K98k of the German military) was frequently not possible due to variations.

I fondly remember the 1950's when I could walk into gun shops and buy a WW2 Mauser rifle for $10-20 depending on condition. And, I'd have my choice of 50-100 rifles at "Ye Old Hunter" (Interarms) in Alexandria VA.

Bob,

Or you could send it to me. I have a special trash can for junk like that!

I think I have only ever heard 2 complaints about the model 70 action and that came from target shooters.

1. There are no decent triggers available - well, there are now!

2. The flat bottom action is not as easy to glue into a bench rifle stock as the round bottomed Remington - as a hunter, so what!

I have both, like most people. I have seen more issues meaning jamups, misfires, sloppy bolt movement, bad triggers, poor erganomics relating to the bolt, feeding issues coming from model 98's that every other action combined.

But I own them.

Nothing like a slick push feed I guess. I have a PF .458 that is as slippery as a honeymoon erection. Sold it once and bought it back.

JW

No, no, no,
Don't throw that in the trash.. I'll PM you may address so you can send it to me. I'll pay postage too..

I like Mauser 98 actions built up into magnificent rifles better than any other action.
Using a military action for a rifle build requires a fair amount of money, when compared to a commercial 98; for example the commercial FN and Interarms MkX actions. When adding up the cost of bringing a Military 98 up to equal the commercialy action, the total costs involved far exceed the cost of the commercial 98. So, in the mid 1980's, I bought three Interarms MkX actions new for $165 each. My thinking was, someone could give me free a military 98, and by the time I had a new bolt handle welded on, getting new bottom metal, having it drilled and tapped, buying a new trigger and safety, and sending it out for re-heat treating, then polishing and bluing, I'd have well over $1000 in the finished action.
It didn't trade.
I haven't changed my mind on that subject, as commercial 98's are hard to find, but they still trump the costs involved with upgrading a military 98 when I can find one.
YMMV however.
Don

There are lots of military Mausers in the $200-300 range that someone else has already paid the high cost of converting it to a sporter. Many were done for hardware chain stores, etc, that have a new commercial barrel, bolt handle, and stock, action drilled and tapped, surface ground, low scope safety, etc.

That's where I would start if I wanted a budget Mauser rifle.

Bruce

Hmmmm..... What am I to do? Decisions, decisions!

-Bob F.

So what is this "re-heat treating" I hear about? Re-doing the case hardening, or through hardening? I am rather curious, since I heat treat steel (or at least specify it) for a living.

All that I have been involved with is through hardening. A number of older Mauser military actions tend to be soft--another reason for using a good commercial action.

As I understand it, actions like the 1909 are glasss hard on the surface (.010"-.015"), then fairly soft beneath. According to the Brownell stuff, you only need to reheat treat if you heat an action too much or in the wrong place, thereby annealing it.

Anybody know who does color case hardening. I really like the look of that, especially on a Mauser sporter.

Sorry but I must beg to differ. The original intent of mauser was to make the most goof-proof battle rifle possible for the time frame. I think he succeeded very well. The fact that it also can make a darn good sporting rifle is just icing on the cake.
I've had the vaunted Pre-64 M70s and frankly, I think they suck. One, even the Featherweights were too heavy. I have several rifles based on FN Mauser actions and a couple on milsurp Oberndorfs and DWMs and I would not take a truck load of Pre-64 M70s for a singe one.
Usually I try and find someone's attempt at a custom where most of the work has been done and go from there. My latest is a 1909 Peruvian mauser that someone made a beautiful stock in the style of the latest winchester Featheweight with excellent checkering. The only thing wrong was it still was in 7.65x53 Peruvian. A quick trip to my friendly gunsmith to rebarrel the gun and I now have a very accurate Mauser in .308 Win. Total cost? I got the rifle for $150 and $450 for the rebarrel. I didn't even have to replace the trigger as it already had a Timney installed.
Frankly, and this is just my opinion, yours may not agree, but I think the Pre-64 Winchesters are just a bit too over rated. I've had a few including a Featherweight in .308, a 264 Win. mag. Westerner (26" barrel, not the 22" abortion.) and the .375 H&H which while it was accurate, I needed wheels to haul it around. Not to worry though, I got darn good prices for them when I sold them off.
The only two M70s I like are the latest Featherweights (before Big W moved down south)in .257 Bob and the 7x57. You can add the synthetic stock XTR in .270 that thinks it's a target rifle. Those three rifles shoot and shoot well.
Pesonally, I'll stick with my Mausers. There are three that if I ever have to sell off my guns for any reason will stay. My J.C. Higgins based custom in 7x57 Mauser and my Oberndorf in .35 Whelen. The third is also a J.C. Higgins in 30-06 given to me by a friend just prior to his death from stomach cancer. It's in it's third stock, the original a custom job that was broken in a fal, the second a cobbled up job usng a spare Higgins stock that came frome the one used to build my 7x57 and the Butler Creek stock Ihave on it now. Those three are my pets, period! However, as Elmer Keith once said, "I prefer to let any man scratch his own fleas in whatever manner he chooses."
Paul B.

Allow me to post my understanding of Milsurp Mausers.....

I divide them into WWI and WWII mausers....

While there are a large number of them made and a lot of very good ones I'll further divide them into German made, Czech made and the others...

Again...there's a lot of excellent Mausers made in Mexico, Poland, and Yugoslavia.....but the ones I look for are Czech and German large rings.....

There are a few superb small ring mausers too.....

That said, I do not want nor will have anything top do with Mausers of the model prior to 1898.....and a lot of folks will disagree with this too!

WWI Mausers often didn't have the luxury of good heat treating and often none at all.....the result was receivers that allowed the bolt lugs to push against them so hard with high pressure cartridges such as the .270 that the lugs were actually embedded in the metal of the receiver. Mr. Burgess worked a process with a Washington company to heat treat these actions.....the company is Pacific Metallurgical in Kent WA and if you send them your 1909 etc (WWI) actions and merely ask for the "Burgess treatment" you'll get your action heat treated professionally to the specs Mr Burgess worked out with them. This amounts to about .015 deep carburization and harden and draw to roughly 37 Rc.....

37 Rc isn't hard at all....but Burgess discovered it was sufficient to prevent the setback associated with some Mauser receivers.

IMO WWII receivers had the advantage of the heat treating just described and don't really need the "fix"....WWII receivers start IMO 1924 with the VZ-24 in Czechlosvakia.....German made receivers of that era and after should also be good to go!

Many gunsmiths check for hardness but don't have the right equipment to check for superficial hardness...(case hardening) and they misrepresent the action for that reason.....One should only trust hardness testing and heat treating like this to professionals.....simply heating the action and quenching might be a serious error and actually be damaging to the metallurgical structure.

I never allow the bolts to be re-treated as the problem with Mausers is almost exclusively in the receiver and the fewer times the bolt is heated and quenched the better I like it...

I have 13 Mausers so treated and have no problems with any of them.....from 6mm Remington to .375 H&H...

Today I shy away from WWI Mausers....and I must agree with JB when he says to just avoid the entire issue by buying a commercial Mauser.....(post WWII)....mostly by FN and Zastava

I understand many of the Husqvarna Mausers are excekllent too but I have no experience with them.

Since there has been some discussion about the merits and demerits of the Mauser 98 and other actions, let me state my opinion and the reasoning behind it. To set the perspective, I am a shooter, not a hunter, and an admirer of fine design and engineering. Because there are a lot of issues to discuss, this is a very long post, and I will break down the discussion into different design aspects, with selected comments on other bolt actions.

Breeching. The Mauser does not completely surround the cartridge with steel. There are unavoidable gaps due to the extraction and ejection system. In this aspect it is inferior to, say, the Remington 700. However, due to the thinness of the extractor claw, the cartridge does protrude less from the end of the barrel than most other bolt actions, by 0.025� to 0.050�, as pointed out by Stuart Otteson in his book The Bolt Action. Overall, the cartridge is very well supported by the Mauser action.
In terms of gas escape in the event of a pierced primer or cartridge rupture, events more common then than now, the Mauser has multiple design features to protect the shooter. Jack O�Connor relates an incident in The Rifle Book where he was shooting surplus ammo in an Waffenfabrik Mauser action. �I was shooting prone when there was a tremendous flash and an explosion right in my face. I opened the bolt and only the rim of the case came out. The head had completely blown off and a tremendous volume of gas had escaped to the rear. With a Springfield that would have resulted in a bulged magazine that would have shattered the stock, and the rifle would have been in a very sad state of repair. The Mauser, however, took it in its stride and was not harmed in the slightest. I had only to get out the remaining part of the case and go on shooting.�
Jack Lott, in an article on the Mauser 98 in the Guns & Ammo Annual 1990 also reported that a friend of his experienced a pierced primer while shooting a Springfield and �got an eyeful of gas and could have been blinded.� He concluded, �the ability to handle gas from pierced or blown primers is on no other action as thoroughly design-controlled as with the M98.� Note that in some commercial Mausers such as later FN and Zastava, the gas control aspect is significantly compromised by the cost-saving short cut of machining a slot on the left side of the gas control inner receiver ring. Also note that the pre-64 Winchester 70 breech is a copy of the Springfield design.

The modern Husqvarna actions are, as I have noted, based on modified and improved �96 Mauser actions. While they have some improved design aspects and greatly improved metallurgy, they lack a number of the gas control design features of the 98 Mauser including the internal receiver gas collar and the venting system. In his book Bolt Action Rifles, Frank de Haas comments that the Husqvarna breeching system is �not so much different from that used in the pre-1964 M70 Winchester,� and further that Husqvarna �regressed in designing the gas-escape system. They would have been better off duplicating the venting system used on the M96 action,� which of course, was further improved in the Mauser 98.

Feeding: The Mauser is, of course, a controlled-feeding design. While there is debate about controlled-feed vs. push feed, it is notable that Mauser went from a push-feed in his earlier designs to a controlled-feed for maximum reliability in a military situation, to prevent double-feeding in a short-stroke situation due to operator error. It is true that modern semi-auto and auto rifles use push-feed design, however cycling in these designs is automatic and not prone to manual manipulation errors as it is in a bolt action.
Incidentally, the controlled feed design allows the magazine to be emptied simply by cycling the bolt back and forth without lowering the bolt handle, because the cartridge is engaged by the extractor as soon as it leaves the magazine and before it is fully chambered. This is perfectly safe even with the safety disengaged because the bolt cam prevents the firing pin from moving forward while the bolt is cycling, and the firing pin also has a safety shoulder which blocks the firing pin from moving forward when the bolt is unlocked. This method of unloading may be quicker and easier than releasing the detachable magazine floorplate found in some Mauser actions.
The feeding action with the cartridge sliding up under the extractor hook also helps clear the bolt face of any dirt or debris that may have lodged there. Here is Jack Lott: �Another problem that the nonrotating Mauser extractor prevents is that dirt of debris can get into a recessed bolt face as on most recent bolt actions, preventing bolt closure. This happened to me when I tried to chamber a .308 Winchester round in such an action and it wouldn�t close. I removed the bolt�and noted an unburned cylindrical powder granule lodged in it. �I couldn�t help think about how this would play in the African bush while I was engaged in a bit of lion, leopard, buffalo or elephant �roulette.�
What is not as well appreciated is the care that Mauser took in every aspect of feeding. Mauser was very proud of his patented magazine design. Not only are the feed lips of the Mauser machined into the receiver (rather than, say, a part of the magazine), but he actually designed the magazine and follower for each individual cartridge. On page 127 of Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles by Jon Speed, Walter Schmid and Reiner Herrman, there is a table of magazine box dimensions for Mauser rifles by cartridge. For 21 cartridges, there are 14 different magazine boxes, sometimes with dimensions differing by only fractions of a millimeter. This is sometimes neglected by gunsmiths when a Mauser action is rebarreled for a different cartridge, which may have different dimensions from the cartridge the action was originally designed to work with. The result can be problems with reliable feeding. In all fairness, it should be noted that John Barsness had a Mexican Mauser which gave feeding problems after it was rechambered to .257 Roberts, even though this action was designed for the 7x57, the parent cartridge of the Roberts. In theory the two should be perfectly compatible, but Murphy�s Law strikes again.

Extraction. The wide Mauser claw extractor is unsurpassed in reliability. Here is Jack O�Connor from The Rifle Book: �Extraction is probably the most positive of any bolt-action. I cannot remember ever having failed to extract a case that remained in one piece - something I cannot say about most other bolt-actions I have used.� The extractor has a undercut projection just behind the hook which fits into a rotary groove in the bolt, and actually forces the hook harder into the cartridge rim the more difficult the extraction becomes, a design feature exclusive to the Mauser. Note that an earlier Mauser design (1889) used an extractor very similar to that used in modern Sako actions, which was abandoned in favor of the non-rotating claw extractor.

Ejection. The Mauser fixed ejector has been criticized because it requires a slot in the left locking lug, weakening that lug. Many favor the Winchester Model 70 design, which is located in the receiver and does not require a slot in the locking lug. However, here is Jack Lott: �A serious design problem exists in the Model 70 ejector�which folds down inside a slot in the receiver� The blade is so deeply placed in the narrow receiver slot that is is usually surrounded by gummy grease and dirt, which it attracts readily. Unless this slot�[is] kept clean�the ejector blade will rise�too slowly and fail�to eject. This is what happened to professional hunter Campbell Smith of South Africa during a rhino charge�.I subsequently had the same thing happen with a Brno ZKK-602 rifle� [which] has an unslotted left lug and a Model 70-type ejector��
He further comments, �The reason that M-98 ejector is more positive is that its blade is shorter�and is not confined in a narrow slot. The only slot it moves through is through the thin receiver left sidewall. Thus, there is little chance dirt or gummy grease and dirt can prevent its near-instant moving in place� No matter how gummed up, I have never had a problem with the M-98 ejector caused by slowness to move in place or failure to do so.�
Don Heath in an article in African Hunter, also noted problems with ejection with rapid bolt manipulation in the Ruger M77 Mk II, which shares a similar ejector design.

Ignition. One shortcoming of the Mauser compared to contemporary bolt actions is its relatively slow lock time. Stuart Otteson calculates its lock time as 5 milliseconds, compared to 2.5 to 3.0 milliseconds for the Remington M700 and Winchester M70. On the other hand, as Otteson points out, the lock time of the Mauser is still faster than any action with a hammer such as lever, pump or semi-auto rifles. The potential trade-off is reliability. As Finn Aagaard wrote in Rifle Sept. 1988, �While I have very rarely experienced misfires due to light firing pin strikes with modern speed-lock actions, I have never had that happen with a Mauser Model 98. If the primer does not ignite when clouted by a Mauser�s striker, it is dead.�
Another shortcoming of the Mauser is its direct-acting double-stage trigger. Although it is a very simple and reliable system � two parts, two pins and one spring, most nowadays prefer a single stage trigger. Mauser themselves offered a single stage trigger as an option on their sporting rifles. IMHO the old Winchester M70, which is nearly as simple as the Mauser, is as reliable a single stage trigger as has ever been designed. The fact that it has been copied in the Sako L-46 and Dakota 76 actions, among others, is further evidence of its quality.

Thumb notch. The Mauser has been criticized because of the thumb notch in the left receiver sidewall, which was designed to assist in clip loading the magazine, a function of its military origins. This thumb notch weakens the rigidity of the receiver, and in late WW II military actions has been a site of fracture of the action. What is not widely recognized is that the thumb notch is also a part of the gas escape management system. This is because the bolt has gas escape vents in it which allow any gas that enters the bolt from the firing pin hole to escape rather than push the firing pin out the back end of the bolt (the firing pin also has a shoulder to prevent it from blowing out). The bolt vents open into the left lug raceway when the bolt is closed and locked, and the thumb notch provides an escape route for gas from the bolt into the open air and away from the shooter�s face. The shooter is further protected from gas by the front flange on the bolt sleeve. Commercial actions eliminate the thumb notch at the cost of some compromise in gas handling.

Magazine floorplate and release. The original detachable floorplate was designed to be released with the aid of a spitzer bullet nose, and is also found on early post-war FN and Brno commercial actions. The detachable floorplate is very positive and secure but obviously much less convenient than the hinged floorplate.
On their sporting rifles, Mauser offered an optional hinged floorplate with either a lever release or a button release in the forward part of the trigger guard. The button release was also seen on the Argentine 1909 � one reason for its desirability as an action to be modified for sporter use � and has been widely copied not only on commercial Mauser copies such as the Santa Barbara and Zastava/Mark X, but also the Dakota 76 and custom bottom metal for various bolt actions. However, some versions of the hinged floorplate have been reported to be less reliable in heavily recoiling rifles � for example, professional hunter Don Heath reported in African Hunter magazine that the Mark X was �famed for springing the magazine floor plate open and dumping the contents on the firer�s feet.�

Scope mounting. Another acknowledged weakness of the Mauser is with respect to scope mounting. Of course, the Mauser was designed before scopes were in use - Kahles, the oldest firm still manufacturing rifle scopes, was founded in 1898, the same year the Mauser design came out. The main problems here are the bolt handle and the safety. The bolt handle can of course be modified for scope mounting, either by forging or by welding.

Bolt sleeve and safety. The bolt sleeve has a flange on the front which helps deflect gas from a ruptured primer or case away from the shooter�s face. The bolt sleeve lock, which prevents the sleeve from rotating when the bolt is open, is simple and positive. By comparison, here is Jack Lott: �The Model 70 bolt-sleeve lock is similar to that of the �03 Springfield and it is more exposed, more complicated and less foolproof than that of the M98. I and others I know have had this bolt sleeve lock�s detent fail to engage its slot in the bolt root and allow the cocking piece to rotate 90 degrees, jamming the action and damaging the rear tang. Its weak coil spring and external exposure to dirt makes it even more prone to sticking. The M-98 bolt sleeve lock, on the other hand, is internal and utterly foolproof.�
The original Mauser safety, mounted on the bolt sleeve, is ingenious and positive, using a minimum of parts to directly lock the firing pin (actually the cocking piece) and bolt in the full safe position, while allowing bolt manipulation in the intermediate position. The intermediate position also allows the bolt to be disassembled without any tools for cleaning, an important military consideration. However, because it pivots vertically, it is inconvenient for scope mounting. Commercial Mausers such as the FN originally offered a two-position scope safety which, while pivoting vertically, was limited to either the right or left side to allow scope mounting. The Brno ZG-47 had a unique bolt sleeve safety that pivoted like a hammer and locked the firing pin and bolt. These bolt sleeve mounted safeties were succeeded by a safety button generally located on the right side which locked the sear, a less positive system than the original. Some aftermarket safeties have imitated the Winchester Model 70 system which pivots horizontally on the right or left side, and locks the firing pin. This is a more positive system than the sear locking safeties, and appears to be the most popular in custom Mausers.

Fit. The Mauser has been criticized for rattling with the bolt open. This was not due to sloppy machining � tolerances were deliberately kept loose by design for maximum reliability in dirty/muddy conditions. Mausers do not rattle in the closed, locked position. Most modern bolt actions have closer tolerances that are more impressive in the gunshop. While no hunter would deliberately (I hope!) carry a dirty, muddy gun into the field, stuff happens. As John Barsness wrote in Rifle Sept. 2002, �I�ve hunted with over a dozen different bolt actions, and believe me, none work like a 98 after they�ve been out in the rain or dust for awhile.�

Steel and Heat Treating. Mausers are believed to have been made of forged, low carbon steel, and had local hardening of the receiver ring and rear bridge lug areas on the receiver, and locking lugs on the bolt, while the remainder was left unhardened for toughness. Frank de Haas in Bolt Action Rifles writes that �receivers of the pre-WWI era, especially the small ring type, tend to be somewhat softer than those manufactured in the 1920s, �30s and early �40s. I have observed that receivers made late in the WWII period, or those dated �44� and �45� are sometimes either very soft or hard, mostly the latter�.There seems to be no evidence to indicate that any re-heat-treatment of a soft M98 receiver will improve it or make it stronger. It is inadvisable, therefore, to have this done.�
Jack Lott has also written, �M-98 actions are not supposed to be hardened throughout. I have shown various critics how a tungsten-carbide scribe or a Swiss needle file only glances off when one tries to scratch inside receiver lug recesses. Some actions are insufficiently hard and have �set back� � meaning that the locking lugs have indented the locking surfaces in this recess�.I�d junk that action and obtain another , rather than re-heat-treat it as some do.�

Conclusion. As may be evident by now, I am something of a Mauser fan, but this is not based on blind faith or esthetics, but rather on solid engineering reasons, as I hope the above discussion has demonstrated. Yes, it has shortcomings, but its virtues are numerous, and the shortcomings are easily correctible. In the discussion above, note the overall emphasis on reliability. Anecdotes have been cited, but of course, anecdotes don�t prove anything. However, the point of them is not that other rifles fail, because any mechanical object can fail, including a Mauser, or to pick on any other action, but to illustrate how the Mauser was designed to minimize as many potential failures as possible. This is not to say that other bolt actions are not reliable, but rather to say that the Mauser was designed to be as reliable as humanly possible, given the technology of its time, and those basic design elements in large part have yet to be improved upon.
An unmodified Mauser is not cost-effective these days, unless one is willing to do his own gunsmithing work, but it is still one of the best, if not the best, sporting bolt actions around on a pure design basis. Because of its popularity, there are abundant aftermarket parts which allow it to be customized to taste � albeit at a cost. For the cost-conscious looking for a Mauser, a commercial action is obviously the way to go, with a Yugoslavian (Zastava, Interarms Mk X) or Spanish (Santa Barbara) less expensive than a Belgian FN/Browning as a general rule. Another option is that many military Mausers were modified in the past with scope-adaptable bolt handles, single stage triggers, etc. Often these �sporterized Mausers�, done by amateurs or local gunsmiths, are available at bargain prices.

A final anecdote - in his article in African Hunter, Don Heath reported on the Zimbabwe professional hunter proficiency exam in which candidates used their own bolt action rifles on the range and in the field, including Weatherby, Ruger M77, Winchester 70, Remington 700, Browning A-bolt, CZ/Brno, Interarms Mark X (Zastava), FN Mauser, and original Oberndorf Mauser. The FN and Oberndorf Mausers came out the best - �worked great as expected�. He also described the early Brno rifles, which were essentially sporterized Mausers, as �absolutely tops.� All the other actions had one functional shortcoming or another. Somehow I don�t think that was an accident.

Now, that's funny! You went from the 1889 .308 to the 1952 version. I have an original Argentine 1909, as you say, in 7.65x53mm. The .308 is just the 7.62x51mm, or .003" smaller bore diameter, and a case that's .118" shorter. My Argentine shoots Sierra's 150gr SPT at 3003FPS into 1.25" at 100 yards, 5 shots, with open sights. You could have saved yourself $450 on your rebarrel job by just reloading the Peruvian to it's full potential. There's no moss on Peter Paul Mauser's first smokeless cartridge design. He got it right 60 years before NATO adopted it.

JB, Vapodog, thanks...

I specify a few hot work tools with case hardening and yes it requires a specialized tester to get readings. Usually when a tool comes in I check it with a knife blade - if the knife won't cut it I figure they did what they were supposed to do



Okay, since some of us are not of the Mauser cognoscenti which model is that one ? An original sporting rifle?

vapodog,

Thanks for that posting. I'm learning a lot more here from you and others.

Jlin, that is an awesome post.

Thanks for taking the time to share that.

Yes, it's an original Oberndorf Mauser Type B sporter. Made in 1930-31 going by Speed's book and the serial number.

I found it on the Internet for $350 in a small gun shop in Florida. The rifle was in sad shape. (The seller did not misrepresent the rifle. I knew what I was getting.)

The barrel was completely gone. Full of rust and pits. The bottom metal was military and the bolt was also military. The bolt serial numbers did not match the action. The original stock had been replaced with something that resembled a 2x4 more than a rifle stock.

So, with all of the collector value gone, I was hoping to use the action as the basis for a custom rifle. And, as Mule Deer stated earlier, I realized this was not about being economical. It's merely for the heck of it and to see if we could bring the old girl back to life once more. I discussed the project with my gunsmith (Todd Johnson) and turned the rifle over to him.

The original chambering was for the 8x60 (.318") cartridge. The rifle was sent to Dan Pedersen's shop and he installed a new barrel, matching the profile of the original barrel exactly. He also installed the original sights and barrel band sling stud on the new barrel. The new barrel is chambered for the 8x60S Mauser (.323"). (Surprisingly, Grafs sells Prvi 8x60S brass!) Dan also installed a new custom bolt handle from the Fred Wells shop on the bolt (that's the bolt handle in the pics above). Dan also inspected/checked the action and found it to be very straight and true and in surprisingly good condition.

The rifle isn't finished yet but it's come a long way from when the photos were taken. The stock is now fully inletted and shaped. All it needs is to have the oil finish applied and hand checkered. The metal work is done and it just needs to be rust blued. The rifle will have new sporter-style bottom metal (also with a straddle floor plate). The bolt has been fitted with a 3-position, side swing safety.

When my gunsmith finishes the rifle, I'll be sure to post some pics on the Fire.











Cheers!
-Bob F.

BFaucett is a classy guy....he not only recognizes classic Mausers and appreciates them but he seems to have the where-with-all to resurrect them.....and then humbly presents them for eye candy for the rest of us to appreciate...

It's costs me nothing and I get to see very fine rifles...now that's a bargain...

Thanks BFaucett!

Thanks, Jlin. I let my rifle maker talk me into a 98 Mauser action for my last custom rifle. He said they work when other actions fail, especially from dirt and crud in the action. I appreciate that as I've been known to hunt for long periods under dusty and cruddy conditions.
I've seen bolts lock up on a few rifles, especially when a primer is blown from a really hot load. Yet, I've ejected w/o much extra effort two cases with such blown primers in a Mauser and a Ruger Tang Safety action. I was impressed to say the least.
Thank you for your very detailed and informative post. E

I'll do a huge amen on that.
From time to time I see such Model 98's for sale, but by the time I see them, they are LOOOONG gone..

Nice piece in the works..I'm having an 8x62 built right now!

Greydog- based on your comment, any after market stock that'll fit an Mark X will fit the J9? I'm not too educated on mauser actions. With this being an intermediate action will it fit the standard long action stock. Bell and Carlson list their Mark X as below. Will this stock work for the Herters J9?

2197-___ Interarms MK X, Long/Short Action
Sporter style, fits current model long or short action with magazine
area block - .22-250, .243, .25-06, .270, .308, .30-06.

Yup

On hardness and heat treating. I worked in a gunsmith shop during the early 60s, when a large number of 03 Springfields became available.

Scopes were becoming affordable and popular, and my job was to drill and tap these rifles and bend the bolt handles down, cutting and re-crowning barrels, turning machine marks out of the 03A3 barrels, plus a lot of bluing. I also installed low scope safeties.

There were also many 98 Mausers around, and their owners wanted scopes and low scope safeties on these, too, along with the military sights removed and the steps turned out of the barrels.

Most of my work was on 03s, but I did do a lot of 98s. As best as I can remember, the WWII Mausers were very hard, much like the nickle 03A3s.

The exception was the 1909 Argentine. These were very soft and easy to drill and tap. Again, as best as I can remember, the outer surface was about the same hardness as the interior. I did not have to use two or three cobalt drills to punch through that hard outer case, as I did on the German 98s and 03s.

This was a long time ago, and I can't remember the different models of 98s, but as this was the early 60s, just 15-18 years after WWII, I am thinking that most of the 98s were war souvineers. Seems like I do remember that most of them were made in the late 30s and early 40s.

A cousin still has one, in original condition, that my uncle, his dad, brought back from WWII. Next time I see him, I will try to find out the origin of it. I have a CZ 27 that he brought back and gave to my mother.

Some of the 98s might have been Czech made, but I can't remember.

Actually, at that time, all I knew about 98s was that they were the German military service rifle in 8mm Mauser. I didn't know about all the different manufacturers, but my boss had one, I believe it might have been a Brazilian, in .30-06. As far as I know, it wasn't rebarreled, but made originally in this caliber.

There were also Jap 99s coming in, and I mounted a few scopes on these, too. The best I could do on these was make a very high scope base, and mount the scope high enough that the bolt handle did not need bending.

For some reason, I don't remember why, we didn't bend the Jap bolts.

This is a picture of a 98 I put togather, in about 1964, for my own use. It is an FN commercial action, Douglas barrel, and chambered for the 7mm Wby. I still have it.

The stock is from a blank I purchased from Bishop.

The scope is a very old Kollmorgan Bear Cub in 4X, with a 26mm tube. Weaver bases and rings, about all we used on the 03s and 98s.

Yup, my choice. Basically, I'm well set up for the .308 and too damn many other cartridges. Actualy, the truth of the matter was I'd planned on it being a 7x57 but the magazine was too shortfor the bullet I wanted to use. So. I went with the .308. Anyway, the barrel on the gun wasn't in the best of shape anyway so I probably would have had to do a barrel job regardless. I'm happy and that's what counts.
Paul B.

I bought a Husqvarna M98 (1948 vintage as best I can tell and a "Hi Power" according to the Canadian Government whose fancy firearm system know everything though the rear sight doesn't look like the HI Powers I've seen on the net) in 9.3x62 (Thanks John!) a few years ago because I specifically wanted an iron-sighted bolt action rifle. I also wanted a Mauser with the original flag safety. To me, they're incredibly easy to flip off (from the middle position, of course) as you mount the rifle and the added bonus is that your thumb ends up on the right (meaning left) side of the action where it belongs.

Unlike a lot of people out there (apparently) the fixed magazine doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I don't really like a floorplate that you can pop open with ease. I'm pretty much certain that the military Mauser floorplate will never spring open by accident, another positive for me. I also wanted to be able to load via stripper clip. Mighty convenient in your pocket and doesn't rattle. Sadly, the clips I've found so far don't work (sorry Ted, same with yours).

Now, the bottom metal and trigger guard will never be described as having smooth, flowing lines nor will anyone claim that they are pleasing to the eye as they came from the factory. However after some turning the action over and over in my hands and some judicious marking and remarking of the bottom metal, I contoured the trigger guard's sides and relieved the rather blunt transition from the trigger guard to the bottom metal. I also gently rounded the floorplate and eased the front and back to make them more graceful. Had I gone all the way and rust blued it afterwards (rather than the cold blue that I had to do because of time constraints) it would have been perfect. When it got it's new stock (a semi-inlet from Brownells) and was finally finished I was pretty happy with it. Now, I'll likely get bored some day and strip the rifle and reblue it preperly and might even venture into making a new (and really nice) stock for it, but the point is that not everyone wants a new rifle. I would never have bought a "modern" Mauser for this project as it just wouldn't have suited me, and some one would have ended up picking it up on the Exchange and I'd be back at square one.

BFaucet,
those are nice pictures of the project.
Are the parts that were added to the new barrel Brazed? I remember reading about doing the bands with epoxy but yours looks a bit diff.
Again very nice project and cool to see an old one brought back to life.

I really have no idea how they were attached. I'll try to remember to ask my gunsmith.

-Bob F.

Is it better to just buy a new mauser action or have an old one rebuilt? By the time you buy the rifle and have all the work done is it about the same price as a new action?

Jlin: Great post!Thanks for doing that as I can tell it took considerable time.Sorta jogs the old brain as to reasons why the 98 is still,after all these years,possibly the top choice as an action for a BG rifle.They don't make them like that anymore!

So...What's a Mitchell M48 never issued 8mm Mauser with all the accessories worth?

those are really a rip off, all you are paying for is a bunch of phony documentation. although I haven't checked recently I could get m48's which is what those are for about $125 bucks a couple years ago.

If you run across any more at a $125, please PM me. I'll take every one of them. Seriously.

$125 Mausers? - that was then, this is now. If you want to go back 50 years, you could buy very good condition Mausers for $19.95 to $25.00 (depending of markings) at a number of sources (check back copies of AR).

What is the difference between an M48 and the other military issue military Mauser 98s, the ones used by Germany and other countries?

I bought some M-24/47s three for $150 a couple years ago. I had trouble getting what had in them for actions alone.....

The M-48 is about the same.....a shorter M-98 and IIRC made in Yuglslavia.

They just are not what the custom Mauser builder wants!

I did buy a M-98 GEW (German made in 1940) recently for $175... It needs a trifle cleaning up but is a very good donor rifle. At that price it was a bargain!

Thanks for the summary, Jim 222. You wrote that?

I'm a hopeless Mauser crank, I have been scarfing up whatever commercial 98's I can find, including the store-brands -- which were pretty darn nice rifles on the merits. I now have a lifetime supply of build platforms.

It would be a simple matter to haunt pawnshops for a while, find a nice Higgins or Sears and then get an A and B from Brownells for a "home brew" sporter.

Very interesting and informative thread - thanks! It got me to thinking about one of my safe queens that I purchased in 1968. It was part of a shipment of guns sent to a Kmart type store that was just opening. They used all kinds of strange guns to fill the racks.

This particular rifle is a FN Mauser in 30.06 made for the Colombian Army. I noted from the discussion that military models are not the most desirable.

My question is this, should I just get rid of it or would it be usable as the basis for a good rifle?

I'm hoping that the photos I just took are attached.
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/mngunner/4660881911/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/mngunner/4660881077/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/mngunner/4661500276/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/mngunner/4661499788/[/img]
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/mngunner/4661498264/[/img]

The photos require permission for viewing

The FN Mausers were fine guns and the .30-06 made for Columbia is (was) used for Magnums by a friend gunsmith years ago....

I have not personally used one but wouldn't hesitate doing so.

Be warned.....by the time you get a finished rifle.....the piggy bank will be milked severely. One can easily invest a grand in bolt handle change, safety change, trigger change and drill and tap for scope mounts.....then add the bottom metal.....

Now add a barrel and a stock.....the sky will seem unlimited.

BobinNH and Dave_Skinner,

Thanks for the kind words. I did write it, but of course based on the expertise of others, many of whom I quoted in the write-up.

CRounds

I would say that the discussion has concluded that military Mausers are less desirable ONLY in that converting one to commercial standards is MORE EXPENSIVE than starting with a commercial action that has already had changes made such as scope-ready bolt handle, single stage trigger, etc. Commercial actions, in many cases, have their own compromises, such as less good gas handling, etc. that I discussed in my post, although those compromises are no more than many other actions have. Certainly, your FN Mauser is a very high quality action, but as vapodog points out, converting it to a sporter could be an expensive proposition unless you are able and willing to do quite a bit of the work yourself.

Jlin222;
Very well written. Word smith as a vocation or avocation?

Avocation, although I have a few published articles in audio/stereo DIY magazines and some published articles in medical journals.

Hopefully I fixed that. I tried using Flickr because Photobucket seems limiting. May have to try them instead. Sorry for the confusion.

Jlin and Vapodog - thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your insights. Still don't haven't decided what to do, but I'm leaning towards selling a couple of other safe queens to finance a custom rifle project. Just because!!

THEN the question becomes -- what caliber!?!?

The photos are werking now.....and the action you described is exactly the one I was thinking of.....

Turning a Mauser into a fine sporter can be done in many different ways....ranging from fairly cheap to beastly inexpensive

Here's an example:

Safety conversion....a timney flag safety will allow you to use a scope and will cost less than $50 and you probably can install it yourself....or you can have a smith install a LaPour three position safety for about $300.....(wow)

Trigger can be "shimmed" and used "as is"....cost is only some of your time.....or add a Timney for about $50....you can do this yourself too!

Some smiths will weld on a stylish new bolt handle for roughly $100.....or you can find someone to forge the one you have for less than half that.

A new A & B barrel can run about $150 installed.....ir you can specify another barrel for up to $600.

You can get an overmolded synthetic stock for about $100.....or a wood masterpiece for well over $1,000.....

My point is that a custom Mauser will vary immensely in price depending on what you want.....

Probably a minimum is about $500......and you can go to $10,000 if you want!

Can you guess which number I'll tell my wife?!?!

I may indeed try to work on it myself. Any advice on books or DVDs?

I had a VZ 24 worked on by ER Shaw.
They machned off the stripper hump, d&t, removed the old barrel, and installed a low swing bolt handle for about $125.00 plus shipping.
Yoe can spend a lot more, but you don't have to.

_______________________________________
Enjoy life--it has an expiration date

When Germany invaded Yugoslavia, they took over the Slav factory at the Zastava State Arsenal. Zastava was producing the Model 24 Mauser at the time and the Germans installed Model 98 tooling to make the Model 98 rifle which was used by the Germany military. Following the war, the Yugoslavs kept using the same tooling and stamped the rifles with the Yugo Communist crest and Model 48 markings.

An interesting footnote to this relates to the Model 24 rifle. At the end of WW1, the new nation of Yugoslavia was using 6 different rifles and they needed to standardize on one; they favored the Mauser system and since the Germans were prohibited by the Treaty from exporting weapons, they turned t the Belgians and FN who was producing the Model 24. Belgium was receiving a Mauser factory as part of WW1 reparations and sold this factory to the Yugos, who started producing the Model 24 (IIRC, the first several thousand were made by FN before Yugo production started up).

Following WW2, the Yugoslavians converted the older Model 24 into Model 24/47's by shortening the barrels from 29" to 24" and making a few other minor changes.

I once had a friend whose father was in the US army in WW2 (D-Day Normandy through the end). He brought home a military FN rifle (military stock, bayonet lug, straight bolt, etc) that had no military markings on the receiver, bolt and trigger guard. It just had commercial FN markings. The barrel did have a Nazi proof mark, but that was it.

He could only speculate that this rifle was made using a previous (to invasion) action and it was mated to military parts. It was in beautiful shape. I've long wondered what happened to it.

Great post. I will only add that if one is knowledgeable and searches enough there are some darn nice custom and factory Mauser's out there to be had for very fair prices. That said, there is also also lot of junk. I managed these two Walther Model B's, a 7x57 and an 8x57, at very fair prices while I was living in Alberta a few years ago.

Looking through some magazines, I saw advertisements for Rigby, Purdey, H & H, and Westley Richards bolt action rifles utilizing Mauser actions.

The prices were in the $20,000.00 and up range. Surely, these are not converted military actions.

Does anyone know who makes the commercial 98 actions for these manufacturers of high end rifles?

Many years ago, the might have used the commercial FN and Brevex, but as far as I know, neither of these companies manufacture actions any more.

Be nice if FN started back making them, and at a reasonable price.

Mauser big game rifles can be bought, they are very expensive

Found a Herters J9 in 7mmRM at the gun shop today. Barrel is pitted and someone sanded the barreled action to apparently remove some surface rust, stock is serviceable but not pretty. Price was right though and it came home with me. Thinking about sending it to IT&D for a quick rebarrel to 375 Ruger. Mag box is 3.4 inches inside. Any issues when doing this conversion, or any problems with the J9 I should be aware of?

Using the way back machine... In the 1970's there were some mauser 98 type action being made in spain and imported in the US. There were some issues with case hardening. They would fit the price point of the Herter's rifle. Buyer beware.

IT&D will let you know if it is treated well or not. have him check the hardening.

This is my 7X57 Mexican mauser.


This is my favorite of all my customs.
Butch

Beautiful rifle Butch. Here's my 1936 in .275 Rigby. Haven't shot it in awhile since I can't find ammo.

Actually mine is marked 275 Rigby, but will use 7 Mauser ammo. I had a lead on some 275 headstamp brass, but it didn't turn out.
Butch

I believe those were sold under the name Santa Barbra. It may have been the same action sold by Herter's on the J9 rifle.

O

I will use a mil-surp action for a custom as quickly as I will use a factory action. For me, building a custom rifle isn't about saving money, it's about having a rifle built exactly like I want it.

Terry

heard you could use 7x57 ammo in a .275 rigby in a pinch.

Strictly speaking the "military mausers" were not heat treated. Rather, they were case hardened which consists of creating a very hard "skin" on the surface of the 8620 steel used. The skin is at least 5 thousandths thick and may be 10 or 15. This created a very slick surface which wears well but maintains a maleable core. Considering the ammo available and battle conditions, the receivers were designed to bulge rather than blow. Also the std pressures were 48,000 CUP and under, which did not require as deep a hard skin as more modern ctgs.

The comment that the pre WW2 actions were military junk displays a total lack of knowledge re mausers. Actually the pre war actions were some of the very best ever made if not the very best. They were produced on the same productions lines were the sporting rifles were made. They were all nearly perfect in fit and finish. The Germans had strict controls on the number of firearms which they could produce imposed as a result of the terms of the end of WW1. So they built new factories and trained a large number of gunmakers. The rifles produced prior to large scale increases in production were gone over by about 3 or 4 times the number of men actually needed.

Of course some of the actions seen today have been abused but there have never been better quality mausers made ever, even today. The FN's comml actions are harder but they do not compare to the best of the pre WW2 "military" rifles.

Sweet!

That is pretty. Doubt I would take it out hunting though.

RinB,
Right on and a good post...

IMO the Mauser action is the premier action for a custom rifle. I like the Chilean 1935, the small rings such as the G33-40 or 1935 German Customs version of the G33-40, and there are the 1908s and Mexicans. Lots of others but these are my favorites..I test and action before I soften and reharden it..Some don't need it, as Jack Belk says hardening some Mausers is akin to painting a tin barn, it serves no purpose..Not sure thats right and its an argueable point, but I have never had a Mauser I used develope headspace or blow up..some were hardened and some were not.

The best Mauser ever built? The Commercial Brno mod. 21 and 22 hands down. they don't need customizing.

I will have a pretty nice Mexican 7x57 for sale on the classified today or tomorrow..I took it in trade and its pretty nice for a hunting rifle.

The Herters I picked up is fortunately marked as a CZ. Wasn't aware there were problems with the Santa Barbra heat treat though, guess I got lucky.

I realize this is a pretty old thread but it's the best one I've found regarding various Mauser types so I'll tag my question on here and maybe someone else will enjoy reading this one like I just did.

I was looking for info on the FN commercial mausers because I just found a nice one in 270 for sale locally for $449 but they already offered to go $400 plus tax. I'm trying to get it for $400 out the door but might cave and take their offer which would be about $450 out the door.

At this point, I can't provide info like model, date, proofs etc but can describe it somewhat.

Metal condition is good, wood is good with no cracks but the finish is spotty in places. Checkering is very fine and well done with an interesting border line about 1/8"out from the rest of the pattern. In the grip panel area, the bottom edge near the grip cap has a distinctive row of circles just inside the border that are about BB size.

Bore looks really excellent and the action is slick and solid. The trigger is single stage, crisp and about 2-3 pounds if I had to guess.

Oddly, there appeared to be no tear sight and no provision for one. It has a 2 piece Weaver Scope base but no scope. I suspect it may have been intended to have a rear peep. There were two holes on the right side rear receiver ring about half hidden under the wood. I guess you'd have to remove wood to install the peep?

Any info or"enabling comments" will be appreciated.

Since when is spending money silly? No luggage rack on a hearse best I can tell. Also, I have a very nice 7x57 Swede built by Jim Wisner that, well, seems near ideal and little more than folks are spending on their fantastic synthetic wonders...

the lightning cuts on a g.33/40

Not sure if this is a 7x57 or 7mm rem mag, or 7mm something else ( question to the seller should resolve that), but here is a Mark x in 7mm something.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=393530783

10+1 capacity,ummm don't think so. And the seller does not list caliber,I would avoid buying that as the seller is clueless.

Bump for a good read.

I got my first Mauser, 7x57, when I was 14 at auction for $10 in 1965.


Now I have ~ 15 different types of Mausers.



Here I am sporterizing 1903 Turkish Mausers


Brazilian VZ24 7x57 Mausers



Here I am sporterizing a Brazilian VZ24 7x57


Brazillian 1908 Mausers


Sporterizing a 1903 Turk Mauser from 8x57mm to 223 Remington


Me developing a steel bedding process for 98 Mausers that uses standard bottom metal as the front pillar.

You're looking at an FN Deluxe, I believe. The funny little circles on the bottom border of the checkering give it away. I had one, but never fired it and sold it to a gunsmith that worked with my son at Gander Mountain. The stock on mine had been relieved for the receiver sight and then filled again with a little chunk of walnut; not a perfect color match, but an excellent fit.

Like all FNs, the Deluxe is an excellent rifle. As far as I know, all were made with the "H" collar in the breech, which makes them easier to manufacture, but compromises the gas-handling ability a bit, and annoys purists. Personally, I'll take all the FNs I can get, whichever collar they've got. Currently I've got two: a "C" collar 1948 .270, and a Sako High Power .30/06 built sometime in the late '50s or early '60s that has an "H" action, as all of them built after 1948 or so do.

If you like the rifle, get it and refinish the stock and/or metal as you wish. They're not especially rare or even valuable as the current crop of shooters thinks they're too heavy, have slow lock-times, and in general are obsolete and not suitable for shooting the wings off fairies at 1000 yards. That's okay; leaves more for me. They're great bargains and I see them on Gunbroker for not much more than the much plainer, but also excellent J.C.Higgins rifles sold by Sears and the equally solid, if sometimes a bit rougher, Zastavas imported by various outfits.

$450 is truly a steal.

I have a Mauser 99. It used small ring mounts, but has a three lug bolt.

There's a lot of information on Mausers in this blog!
I own a couple of the books mentioned. I've had several Mausers. My first rifle was a 8mm which was rebarreled with. 6mm Sharon barrel. That rifle was the only rifle I've owned with a failure to extract. The extractor pulled the brass of the base of the cartridge.
The next Mauser was a 7mm that I reamed out to 280. It had a distinctive double diameter neck. I was young and wasn't aware of the different specs. I had a Romney trigger and after market stock. I sold (gave) the rifle to a friend when a buddy dropped an elk in its tracks. ($100). It was his first rifle.
I had another action that a friend of a friend screwed up with a grinding wheel. It went in the trash.
I now own a 33/34. Someone did a polish on the action that removed much of the lettering etc otherwise it looks like a military rifle- original stock, trigger, sights etc. it will stay that way.

I'm neither a Mauser hater or lover after my experiences. I own 700's, 722's, 721's, 70's, 7's, Springfields, 77's and a Ruger 416 Rigby.

My least favorite is a 7mm RM - a Ruger Red Pad 77. The stock is an extremely poor design. I'm not sure which is my favorite of the others. I like the 70's and the 700's.

The most accurate are the 700's, but the 70's are good too.

I'm glad for differences.

I know it's from 6 years ago, but dammit I like my "polished turd" VZ-24...

Even if I never fired it, I'd always want one around just to look at. Nothing in bolt guns compares to all that lovely machined, forged steel.

Springfields are a bit prettier, maybe. Might have to pick one of those up someday.

Seems like finding an old beat up pre 64 model 70 would be the way to go. You would have a much better chance of building a rifle you could get your money out of.

You can't make this stuff up.

Only on here can you find it......

Not sure I've ever seen a pre64 M70, even a beater for under a grand. Good commercial Mausers, on the other hand can often be had for $400 on up. A lot of those are good to go as-is for hunting, or for a few hundred bucks, can be put in better stocks. The M70s do have the advantage of the existing nice safety, and for me at least, simple good trigger. Mauser triggers run the gamut from very good to truly awful. Many also don't like the slide-off floorplates on many FNs, but I'm fine with them.

Add to this reading list Stewart Otterson's book "The Bolt Action". Otterson was a patent examiner and firearms enthusiast and the 2 volume set examines the history, specifications and dimensions of a number of actions and, includes detailed drawings of each. Excellent reference books.

P64 M70 $850 in classifieds

I have seen a few old model 70's that guys have refinished. If the stocks been cut, that doesn't matter. That old walnut can be made to look real nice. Then if an original stock comes along, it can be swapped out. The value goes way up, making it easy to sell. It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you needed money in a hurry. I would much rather have a 70 than a Mauser. If you tell someone you have an old Mauser to sell, your not going to get much interest. If you say pre64-70, you better get out of the way! You end up putting money in rifle that you can't run fast enough to get someone to buy.

Sporterized mausers are pretty cheap in these parts. I've bought them for $175.00 etc...

"It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you need money in a hurry."

That's true of Winchesters, generally. They all have enough of a cult following that at any given time, there will likely be someone fairly local that has the money to invest in a Winchester. A sporterized Mauser, even a really nicely done custom one, or for that matter, a commercial Mauser, will probably take a lot more peddling to get it sold.

Personally, I find military rifles that someone else has "sporterized", to be affordable bases for using rifles. That is, if they haven't been screwed up too badly in the "sporterizing" process, and, of course, have decent bores.

And how do the ZKK 600 stand in everyone’s eyes?

Old thread but a great one.

Some of the best made imho. I’m very biased for all things cz/Brno...but it’s only because i appreciate their quality. The only rifles I own at cz/Brno at this point

This was a great post...except the stupid comments about the vz24.

How close are they in size are they for fitting a stock?
Say a 1909

This thread has arisen from the dead.

Yup.....it's nine years old.

No wonder some people claim many Campfire members are living in the past....

Could be more of a fact than a claim.

Guess I resemble that remark.

Ha!

DF

DF,

There apparently is an "age factor" on the Campfire. Somebody (was it you?) started a thread within the past year, asking the age of members. Quite a few responded, and the average was late 60s.

Wasn’t me, but I do resemble that profile.

Like has been said, be nice to old farts, you may be one some day.

Well, seems we’re well represented in those ranks.

DF

Welp, old thread or not, I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for the CZ version. Either in this thread or the Mauser forum. Seeing as I own two CZ's I guess my next purchases will be a bottle of single barrel and a therapy dog.

CZ controlled-feed actions strongly resemble 98's, with many of the same or similar features--but they are not strictly Mauser 98 actions.

I personally really like the CZ 550, having owned and hunted with several a LOT....

My favourite rifle is a cz 750 s1 m1. ( basically a 550 ) It is a finely made rifle.

OK, scratch the dog, but I'm still buying a bottle of single barrel.

Ahhhhh Haaaaa….listen up here....you young whippersnappers...just get an ole Mauser and glue up some wood and break out the checkering tools, throw them all together, and you'll have a bang stick ready to put venison in the freezer.....and with a modicum of style too I might add.

We don't need twelve pages of talk about it either.....maybe I can find a few images.....

One thing I have noticed over my decades of writing for various magazines (and not just on firearms, but a wide variety of subjects, including fishing) is that readers often aren't looking for new information. Instead they're looking for confirmation that their favorite stuff is mentioned. In fact, they'll often look through magazines on grocery store racks to see if the table of contents lists any articles about their favorite rifle, fly rod, big game animal, or whatever--whereupon they buy a copy to see if the author "agrees" with them. If the author does, then he's obviously a genius, or at least agreeable.

Which is why so many gun magazines still run articles even on cartridges or rifles that have been around for a long, long time, say the .30-06 or Model 94 Winchester. There will always be plenty of potential readers who want to hear more about the wonders of their personal favorite--or complain if it isn't mentioned....

One of the great virtues of Internet forums is if their favorite isn't mentioned, they can mention it themselves.

Heck I must be old, and senile.
So much of the stuff we discuss has been hashed for decades.
So much, that most is familiar.

So.. I'm reading this, and it isn't untill I see BobinNH that I realize how
old it is. Or, that it's not just familiar. I have read it before.
More than once.

John, that just reinforces your by line quote from Shrapnel.

Ha!

DF

HA...im so guilty of all of that MD! Im in my mid 30s through


The CZ 550 is the best of the Mauser derivatives imho. Let me explain...

1. Actual CRF with undercut bolt and extractor tongue (only one other than a Mauser)
2. No cut through the left bolt lug for the ejector
3. Better saftey...the last versions were a 3 pos inline that is both positive and quite
4. Surface hardened only for safety in case of blowup
5. Open trigger design
6. Double square bridge with dovetail and locator/recoil lug
7. Forged and machined bottom metal
9. 1 pc bolt
10. Both standard AND true magnum length available (no short action though)
11. Takedown button is both functional and attractive
12. Very safe for both primer and case head gas leakage...deflecting design like the originals with venting through bolt, thumb slot and a deflective bolt shroud
13. C ring action

Opinions will vary...but when it comes time to check off the list of important features...the 550s get the most tics

Its also the best looking

Alas...they don't make them anymore. Im living in the past...its true

Quak,

I believe some gun writer published an article in SPORTS AFIELD a few years ago, making most of the same points. It could also be mentioned that the barrels are normally VERY accurate.

Which is why I did a lot of hunting for around a dozen years with a 550 9.3x62 and a 550.416, as probably have done my last buffalo hunt--and if I haven't, have a perfectly good .375 H&H. But the 9.3x62 is one of the few rifles I'll keep as long as I continue hunting....

MD,

Id love to know what that article is...id buy the back issue in a heartbeat.

As far as the barrels go...everyone I've ever owned shot damn well and a had very concentric chamber and throat. I always hesitate to mention accuracy as everybody brushes it off because finding an inaccurate gun online as you know is often hard. They are hammer forged BUT are hand lapped which is very obvious to anyone who's ever looked down the snout of one with a bore scope or cleaned one.

Ive got 3...all old models they never sold in the US and all in 308. The only big game rifles i own any more...i sold everything else because i could never bring myself to use them with the 550s in the stable.

"2. No cut through the left bolt lug for the ejector"

Does this mean a rising extractor, subject to dragging on fouling, brass bits, rust and all other assorted boogers rather than just standing tall for all?

Are there failures associated with the split lug?

Weaker is weaker my friend. I’ll take no cut in the lug 6 ways to Sunday

Well, this thread is definite proof of of life after death.

However, I made my thoughts on the subject back on 5/28/10 and nothing since then has given me reason to change the opinions posted. Still. I find that the comments post since my original post have been interesting and entertaining. Let's keep it going.
Paul B.

Mauser sporters I have in the safe.

91 Argentine, 7.65x53
'09 Argentine, 257 Roberts
'36 Mexican, 250-3000
1912 Steyr, 7x57
VZ-24, 7x57AI,
DWM, 6.5x55
'48 Yugo, 6mm Rem
Siamese, 45-70, 30-40 Krag

I like Mausers.

Very true. I don't buy a magazine to learn about a new cartridge or rifle. But if I see an article about the 30-30 or 30-06 advertised on the cover I will buy the magazine.

This thread is a living example of why I hoard old magazines and books, the info is still very valuable regardless of datelines!

Mike

PS
Mine are VZ-24, Mark X, and a stock Swede.

For the record...CZ rifles are all Mauser to me...its the lineage.

Make mine a Mauser/CZ!

I do like the smaller CZ versions, never had a full size.

Full size magnums are great for what they are intended. I always get a kick when folks say...its a little heavy for a .400 whatever.

My standards all weight about 7 lbs and are very trim

Is that with scope?

No sir...but that’s with 23.5 inch barrels and steel irons

I built a 7x57 on a mexican 36 a few years back. It was a budget build but worked pretty well. I have a hoard of old mausers. Several FN commercial 98s, some 08 Brazilians, some nice 09 argentines, and a Steyr build 1939 that seems very well made. I've always planned on building something on some of them but keep building stainless rem 700 style things.

Some mauser builds I'd like is a 416 ruger, a 9,3x62, and maybe a 7x57 AI. I'd rather a 280 but the mag boxes are a bit limited.

Bb

My next would be 9,3x62. Such a cool ole bird

You would like this one, an AHR CZ custom 9.3x62. I traded for it, would NOT have paid what AHR charges out the door.

DF

If a stock was cut for a 1909 Argentine Mauser, would a ZKK 600 fit? Or could the stock be made to work correctly......