To quote Richard Lee's website:

There is no loading system that will load more accurate ammunition than Lee Collet Dies. We guarantee it in writing with every set. No one but Lee has ever dared to make a guarantee like this "Smallest group size or your money back."

I am considering investing in three caliber sizes and wanted to hear your experience opinions.

Also, does the crimp die work well?

I've good results using them for my 300 wm

I don't use the crimp dies but IMO the Lee collet dies work great and are one of the best buys out there.

I have never used the crimp die so can't offer an opinion on them but do use the collet neck sizer dies and like them a lot. I shoot quite a few different calibers and find that the collet dies seem to not work harden the necks as quickly. No lube is needed and they are adjustable as to how much neck tension you want (its not a big adjustment but it is there). They can be a pain to get adjusted correctly; I found a great post over on BRC on how best to adjust them and those instructions made it very straight forward. I'm using a Rockchucker and running the handle all the way to the end of the stroke so as to get a positive stop each time.

I had my doubts at first but now that I've had them a while and used them long enough to get to know them, I feel they are a worthwhile item to have on the shelf. I do still use both regular FL dies as well as standard neck sizing as needed.

Any chance of a cut & paste of that post or at least a link?

thx.

Yep, I'd like to see that too.

Been looking for it. I too wish to lay eyes on it.

I use these dies in almost all the calibers I reload now,and I really like them. I have run the loaded rounds on my RCBS bullet and neck concentricity guage and the ammo is indeed very uniform. In fairness,the one set of RCBS dies I have for my .270 does as good,although I prefer the Lee's for neck sizing only.
As far as crimping,the Lee FCD is the best I have used for crimpimg my levergun ammo. It's consistent and easy to use, I have no desire to try any others.

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

Here are the help videos.

I use one in 300 Win Mag - best I've seen for neck sizing.

Thanks Steve. Downloading a couple now.

Have both in a couple of different calibers and they work well. I have used the crimp die the most and it is by far easier to use than any combo seater/crimper die.

JasonB,

Did you notice any improvement in accuracy after using the crimp die?

I've used the crimp die extensively. I've not noticed an increase in accuracy, but I've definitely not noticed a DECREASE in accuracy, and I like having the security of the crimp. I use them with any bullets that have cannelures.

I don't, however, crimp non-cannelured bullets like Lee suggests that you can. I just can't get over the notion of adding a groove into the bullet with my crimp.

I have collet neck sizers for every cartridge I load for (that Lee makes one for, at least). I've even considered getting custom ones for the cartridges they don't normally make. They work beautifully, I don't have to lube cases, I don't work the brass as much as FL dies, the results are just as good as any other dies I've tried, and they cost a whole bunch less than any other neck-sizing dies I know of.

Richardca99,

Ever thought about comparing the accuracy of a crimped reload to a non-crimped? ....fishing....

In all honesty I never compared. I use their separate crimp dies for self loading rifles (also use their post size & crimp die on pistols) as a safety measure against set back on the feed cycle. All I can say for sure is the crimp the Lee die gives is far more consistent (and forgiving) than the RCBS combo seater/crimper I was using before.

Yes,I used the Factory Crimp Die on my 300Mag and 7mmMag and my group size shrunk from 1.5in to 1in.

Neil

Cool!!! That's the answer I was looking for.

nmitchell,

Do you use it on bullets w/o cannelure as well? If yes, have you recorded the same results?

I haven't tried it either beyond making up a dummy catridge or 2 to speed up setting seating depth. On that note, for anyone that has seen the crimp the Lee die makes (case mouth and on a non-cannelured bullet) and have also seen South African military ammo (there may be others, but this one comes to mind) is it just me, or do the crimps look similar?

The crimp die on my .30-06 shrunk my 168 gr. TSX load (over 58 grains of IMR 4350) noticeably. But it had no effect on the 165 Accubond over the same exact charge.

The collet is a nice little gadget in my book.. I went 5 firings on a batch of .223 brass before needing to bump the shoulder back.

The collet die is nice because it works on improved cases as well as standard cases.

Love the Lee Collet/Redding Body Die combination for sizing cases. Have one in every caliber they make. If you are not satisfied with the amount of bullet grip then you can order smaller mandrels from Lee for $5.00 each


however while corresponding with Lee via e-mail about the smaller mandrels they said that they did not recommend undersized mandrels because one of the keys to the Lee Collet sizing cases with little runout was because they did not size the neck down more than .001". But they did send them.

The way I adjust my Lee Collets is to run the lock nut up to the top of the threads. This will put the press lever in the most horizontal position


and make it easier to put the same amount of pressure on the lever everytime. It only takes about 25# and if you put more pressure on the lever or cam the press over then it is possible to pop the aluminum cap (don't ask me how I know ).

I have also used the Lee Factory Crimp Die and for me it improved accuracy



However, I don't use them much anymore because they will gradually decrease your case length from chamfering off the crimp repeatedly. After about 6 or 7 firings of the case the Lee Factory Crimp Die would not work because the case length was too short and it was out of the range the die would work in.

You can see the crimp on this load if you look closely


You do not have to crimp into a cannelure and even if the case mouth is pressed into the surface of the bullet it will pale in comparison to the amount of scoring the lands will engrave into the surface upon firing.

I have used the Collet dies for years and wouldn't be without them. Also use the crimp dies but mostly for handgun cartridges. They both work great.

Love the crimp die for 30-30 and 218 Bee in a lever action.

I have started using the Lee Crimp Die in a 30-06 while the gun already shot sub-moa with 165's accubonds and Sierra game Kings HPBT it shot a little over a 1/16th of an inch better when crimped. I did't experience any difference in need for triming brass. The Lee Crimp Die is about the easiest process to do in all of my reloading steps. If I am getting close to a compressed load I like the idea that I know the bullet isn't going to move. Buckfever1

I use the Lee faactory crimp die on magnum-level handgun loads. It produces a stronger crimp than the taper crimp in a typical bulletseating die.

Attempting to apply a heavy crimp at the same time as seating a bullet causes a bulge to form in the case just below the crimp. This bulge is sometimes large enough in diameter to not allow the round to chamber in the cylinder. This problem is cured by using the Lee factory crimp die.

You can also minimize the bulge to some degree by crimping with regular bulletseating dies if you seat and crimp in separate steps. Using two separate seating dies makes this easier by adjusting one for seating only and the other for crimping only.

I have. In fact, I have experimented with with their crimp die when I've been building loads that are "on the edge" of what a rifle might be able to function well with. An example has been the 64 Winchester PowerPoint in a 223 with a factory 12 twist barrel. I have been able to significantly tighten groups with their crimp die. There are other instances as well, but that load - with RL15 or 4320 really stand out.

Excellent information gentlemen. Every post is greatly appreciated.

Well, I can't find it easily........But........

Turns out I was smart enough to paste it into my own document for future use. It was done by a gentleman by the name of John Valentine.

Originally posted on Benchrest Central:

Using The Lee Collet Die.
I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed .
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product , it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in it�s base .
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press .
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases .
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
eg. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don�t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it�s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn�t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker , that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a limited zone. No lubricant is required on the case necks during sizing .
There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
This is not a problem once you learn how to use them.
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any draging effect . Normally you dont need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck . After a few cases it coats up the mandrel .
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.

I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilise the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. � 21/01/2002.

An RCBS Rockchucker is very good for a Lee collet die.
Are you sizing to a point where the press goes over center and kinda locks the handle inplace . Just like BJS6 is doing.
Your post does not give me that impression .
If you are using just handle pressure against the die without it going over center then you have no controll over the size pressure , no stopping point .
If this is the case then go back and readjust the die a small amount at a time untill it starts to go over center while resizing a case and the handle locks in place.
Then try a projectile in the case . If it needs extra sizing from that point only move the die a very small amount at a time.
If it stops going over center you have gone past the sweet spot.



Edit to add: found it on the new layout finally:

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?48671-lee-collet-dies-neck-tension/page2&highlight=collet

Great post shoot4fun. Thanks for putting forth the extra effort.

Lee Collet die and Redding Body die are the only way to fly, IMO.

the crimp dies have shrunk some of the groups with a 30-06 and a 308 win.
So far so good.

Rarely have I seen as much unanimity here at the 'fire as I see here concerning these Lee products.

Kinda cool!

It's possible to use a Lee collet die on cartridges other than the one for with they're designed. This is useful when Lee does not make a collet die for the case you want to reload.

The technique may involve putting a shimming washer around the case after it's inserted into the shell holder on the ram.

For example, I'm using the collet die for the 22 Hornet on 218 Bee cases. The length from the base of the case to the bottom of the neck is about 0.07 inches longer on the Bee than the Hornet. So the Bee case is put into the shell holder, a washer a bit thicker than 0.07 inches is dropped over the case, and the press operated to squeeze the neck of the case against the mandrel.

--Bob

Crimp dies have been used in several cartridges with varying results and where I have seen the most significant group improvement was loading for some 7x57's.

I use Lee Collet dies and crimp dies for three rifle cartridges I load for. Ordered a custom Collet for my 9.3x62 and it has worked out great as well.

Yep Ken. It is cool ....... and rewarding.

I have found the crimp dies take COAL out of the equation. A test at AR with standard 308 loads found an overall improvement of 10%,some better, some worse. The collet dies are also the lazy way of reloading,but you do have to F/L once in while. When the necks get too hard, the crimp comes to the rescue.

I have more Lee dies than all the other brands. Great value, and excelent results. Collet dies for .222, the Swift, .250 Savage, .25/06, and .30/06 work as advertised.

Some say they'll work with "Improved" cases. Is that true?
The cutaway photo on the Lee website looks as though the collet fingers would crush the body and shoulders of a straightened body with sharp shoulders.
Anyone experience this?

Same here for me.

I use my .250 Savage collet die for the .250AI. Works like a charm. I have factory crimp dies for the Hornet (Thanks for the recommendation go to Rocky Raab and others) and the .45 Colt. Excellent product.

Does the crimp die rest at the base of the neck and not against the shoulder? If that is the case and the shoulder has no real effect, would not every individual caliber be able to use the same die? ie. all 7mm's could use the same die.

Pardon my ignorance. You'll never know unless you ask and I'm not afraid to ask.

Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTUgytUGnM

These guys blabbing on here don't know nothing. LOL

378Canuck

Can you give a brief description of the video. YouTube is not dial-up friendly and that's all I can get where I live.

I really like the Collet Die. I use it exclusively. I have messed around a little with the Crimp Die, but have not developed any data that I would consider "hard" when comparing its use to not using it. I would, in general, say that it tends to increase velocities a bit, but not what I would consider significantly.

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/tips-for-using-lee-collet-dies/
Try this site-not so heavy.

I've used the Lee also but I seem to get better results using bushings. I fire form my brass to get chamber size and order the bushing (Redding)accordingly to get just the right neck tension. Then I have what I want -consistency. I anneal after 5-6 firings so necks remain soft and lose their memory to avoid uneven neck tensions. I use the Lee in my auto loaders.

The crimp die is cartridge specific. It holds the round as you run the ram up and the shell holder contacts the collet slide to push it up into the die to constrict and crimp the case mouth. Adjusting it deeper runs the slide higher into the die creating more squeeze. The top is open, so it has no effect on seating depth of the bullet.

Interesting! My experience with Lee neck dies and the Redding neck die with bushings was the opposite.

Using my RCBS case gizmo to check alignment, I found the Lee neck collet die gave just as good alignment as the Redding bushing die, and was not sensitive to neck thickness as the Redding neck bushing die was.

I disliked being forced to turn necks, or to get a different bushing for different brands of brass. So, I kept the Lee die, and sold the Redding neck die and all its bushings.

John

I found this result on my 338/378 weatherby and on my 378. May have something to do with the Weatherby neck. Haven't bothered to try the collet die on my 338 Lapua IM, went straight to Redding and bushings. However I use only Lapua brass which is some of the best on the market. It comes pretty damn straight and uniform on neck thickness.

Hej 378Canuck

Well, you could not get two more different calibres for "our comparison"!

Mine was a .222 Rem, yours the mighty .378 Weatherby.

I too (now) use nothing but Lapua brass in my .222 -- it is amazingly good!

Actually, as a 3 decade handloader, I hate to admit it, but I hate a devil of time even matching the accuracy of the Lapua FMJ factory rounds that I purchased to get the brass to reload.

My best tailored reloads with Norma brass just neck sized were still less accurate than those Lapua factory loads.

I have a .375 H & H so I am not a stranger to recoil, but I have fired a .378 Weatherby -- I salute you and your rawhide-covered cast iron shoulder!

John (Canuck in Sweden)

Actually it's not so bad after I stuck that 30+ oz NF scope on it and the heavy McMac-tupperware stock. If I run out of bullets, I could still club them to death with this thing. LOL

I will have to try these Lee crimp dies.Seems like everyone likes them.

I was very skeptical, but gave them a try when the last round in my 5 shot magazine in my .375 H & H would get pushed in the case by recoil because I was seating the bullets out where there was no ring to crimp on (with a conventional die anyway).

Three rounds in the mag were no problem, but this rifle held 1 + 5 shots and the bullet in the last round would start to move in spite of an undersized expander ball in my sizing die.

The Lee collet crimper die allowed me to crimp even on a smooth X bullet, fixed the problem of the bullet moving, and cost very little. I do not recall accuracy changing at all, but some have sure reported improvements.

I understand Lee crimp dies for pistol calibres do not use the fingers and collet, but I sure like the rifle dies (which do use this approach).

John

Things come to mind... I've never seen a long range shooter or BR shooter even THINK of using a Lee die.... and I"ve never seen either see the need for a crimp as a good thing.

I"ve run well over 100K rounds through ARs, maybe double or triple that even.... and never crimped one round.

IMHO there are better ways to skin a cat, but IF it works for you, then thats all you need to know.

I do have a handful of Lee dies collected over the years and I have done my best to not ever buy another.

I've never seen bullets slide back in the brass from recoil. You need to anneal your necks more often to remove the springyness(may not be a word). Like I said before after 5-6 firings they seem to spring open a bit after sizing. My findings. I don't know metalurgy but something seems to happen to the brass and it develops a memory. Maybe others with more experience know why or can explain it better than I can.

I am sold on the Lee "Factory" Crimp die especially on hard recoiling pistols and rifles..Never had a bullet even come close to moving on the hard recoiling 454 Casull and it helps big time with heavy bullets in the 45-70..I would hate to think of reloading either without it.

I have both RCBS and Lee dies and use the Lee's more often.

Jayco

I have used the crimp dies in several rifles that i couldn't get to shoot otherwise and got an improvement in them all. They were all auto's or levers or magazine rifles that had short magazines compared to how the barrel overall length was set.[mainly browning levers and autos] One 270 blr of a friends went from 4 inch groups at 100 to 1&1/2 just from crimping. I now crimp any rifle i can't get to shoot a reasonable group.
Fred

I've had fantastic results with my Lee Collet Neck Sizer Dies in 30-06, 7x57, and 257 Rob (which I use for my AI). As a matter of fact,I just got online to order custom sets for my 338-06 A-Square, 9.3x57, and 6mm-250.

They're wonderfully easy on brass and make it very easy to obtain near-perfect concentricity. I've loaded once-fired RP brass for over 10 yrs with 15+ reloads without cracked necks or the need for full length sizing.

I have only one of their crimp dies and that is for my 30-30 WCF. Again, a fantastic product that works just as advertised eliminating the "case crumpling" issues that I've had when over diligent using built-in crimps like those in RCBS dies.

The other of their products that I use extensively is their case length gauges. These chuck in a drill and, after being shortened a hair with a file, give you the perfect "trim to" length everytime, with perfectly squared case mouths. Of course you really only need to use these on factory brass in preparation for the first loading if you're using their collet neck sizing die.

On the whole I've found Lee products to be a great value, although other than these two particular dies I prefer other brands/models.

I use the collet die for my 300H&H I find that I get much longer brass life not full sizing. These always strecth right at the belt, the Lee die lets me keep the fired sizing and reset the neck. Well worth the money IMHO 300H&H brass is not getting cheaper. The crimp dies work well in my 44 Mag better crimp than standards. Some don't like Lee's, but for myself they work just fine.

Thanks to all. I just ordered collet and crimp dies for my .270 and 7mm Rem Mag. I hope to order a 6.5-284 set next year. I haven't got that one completed yet. lol....

You are dead wrong about the collet die,one of our Palma shooters does.

I've never used the collet die, so won't comment on that, but the crimp die is, in my opinion, the best way to crimp and it allows more versatility in OAL.

One thing I learned a long time ago was that running an expander ball dry thru a case neck was not a good plan.
So I got my hands on some Graphite powder and run a brush in it then put some in the neck. Works slick.
Keeps the work hardening of the brass down to a minimum and thats a good thing.
But from what I'm reading here (thanx to all the contributors btw) I'm gonna get me a collet die and give er a whirl.

I have never used the crimp die, but am going to get one for 45lc. But I use the collet die for my 308 Savage and love it. Just got a set for my 6.5x55.