I have a wood/blue Hawkeye 223 that I have been trying to get a load for. I have been working up loads for the 40 gr Ballistic Tip as a coyotes, prarie dogs and other stuff load and with the 60 gr Ballistic Tip as a cheap substitute for the 60 gr Partition that I hope to use for pronghorn. I haven't bedded it yet, and I hope to do that. I put in a new trigger spring to lower the pull and that helped groups a bit.

The last three times I went to the range I noticed that it likes to throw bullets a little higher in the group some of the time. This time the camera went along for the trip. I can't really find a pattern to which shot is higher up in the group. It was between 80 and 90 when I shot today and the barrel was kept warm, though time was given to cool the barrel down between shots, so it never got hot. I cleaned the bore before the second to last trip and after going to the range today. It was pretty clean after today, so I don't think that is the problem.




The same load



I forgot in what order these went into the group. The other 60 gr TAC group had two shots close together and two shots close together and two and a half inches up.



I don't think it liked the Varget. The other Varget group was similar.


This was the load used in the 2nd to last time I was at the range. This is a little better than the usual. No pictures, but an earlier trip this load had two groups that were spitting images of each other, making J shaped groups.



I really don't have a clue what is going on. I quite frankly don't know if the rifle is throwing fliers or if it is stringing vertically. Is this a bedding issue or a just not the right load issue? Any advice is welcome.

I'm going to hazard a guess that maybe you're loads are kind of light. I've no experience with TAC, but I use a lot of Varget in the .223 and with both 60 grain Sierra HP's and 65 grain Sierra GK's I run 27 grains of Varget. I'd be interested in seeing what others think.

Bedding was the only solution for a hawkeye in 257.... for us. never have had much luck with rugers stuff unless you do quite a bit of work to it.

And as mentioned.... I'm running 25-26 with Varget and 69s... and IIRC 26.2 TAC with 77s in 223...

Your loads seem on the light side. Might try CCI BR4 primers with Varget.. And CCI 450s or Rem 7.5s with TAC... might help some.

The only time I've gotten patterns like this, the front scope base screw bottomed out against the barrel before it got really snug. Grinding just a little off the tip of the screw fixed it nicely.

You might also check the front action screw for the same thing.

I have seen defective scopes do just as you are experiencing. Have you tried another one?

Are you cleaning between groups? I had one rifle drive me crazy and it turned out it liked to shoot about 5 rounds nicely. But due to some pitting at the muzzle end of the bore, it fouled quickly and began spitting them just like what I see on your targets.

Remove the stock and look for the action and barrel contact points with the stock. Vertical stringing is a common problem caused by a poor stock bedding. Try glass bedding the stock and free floating the barrel. To improve accuracy of bolt action rifles one can do one or more of the following. Glassbed the action , freefloat the barrel, adjust the trigger,recrown the muzzle, lapp the bolt locking luggs, remove wood from under the bolt handle, float the magazine box between the action and floor plate. Keeping all screw snug and clean the barrel is a given. I got my first rifle in 1949 and since then have owned various rifles. I listed what have worked for me.

All the things that bracer has mentioned could be the problem or a combination of some of them.

Bed & float the barrel first, then shoot; depending on results, you may need a pressure point of some sort...........some guns shoot best floated, some don't.

Pressure points (even neutral ones) & wooden stocks don't always work, long term, but you can at least find out it's effect.

Tight screws are obvious, but still missed form time to time.

Do not overlook the necessity of not having the mag box binding when the floorplate is closed. This is a fairly common malady with factory rifles at a gun with that condition will never be a consistent shooter.

MM

How do you fix the mag box binding issue? Are you saying the mag box is longer than it should be in some?

What everyone above said.
I sanded out the forend lump in the stock that the barrel hits as my first order of business with my Rugers, making sure the barrel is free floating. I had no accuracy problems after that, so I didn't glass bed the action, and a few inches out the barrel channel in the stock. I do make sure the action screws are torqued properly however.
My accuracy load with 40 gn Sierra Blitz bullets is H-335 with Fed 205 primers. Don't remember the powder charge off the top, but somewhere around 27 gns. You'll have to test your loads to see what rile likes best if you decide to go with 335. Three shots into 1/2" to 5/8" at 100 using a V-16x set at 16x.
I'd bet some money your groups will shrink by free floating your barrel. With the three Model 77's, all shot great w/the barrel floating.

Yes, if it binds, it's too long for the stock; boxes are pretty consistent, if there's a problem, it's usually caused by the stock being a bit thin,

Fix it by filing the BOTTOM of the mag box until it no longer binds.

Sometimes you have to look very carefully to discern that it's binding as it's not always an obvious thing.

MM

All of the above can br problems, but I've found that amost all Ruger 77's (whether tang safety or Mark II) shoot better with the barrel free-floated. This is by far the most common problem.

You can do a temporary test for this by taking the barreled action out then, when reassmbling it, placing one of those plastic twist-tabs from a loaf of bread just behind the recoil lug, between the stock and action. Reassemble the rifle and test to make sure the barrel is floated by running a piece of paper between the barrel and channel.

If that doesn't cure the problem then something else is wrong, but you also won't be out a real bedding job.

Lots of good advice in this thread. I especially like JB's trick to see if free-floating will help before you do the whole bedding job. Now I have to go to town to get a 'load' of bread. I better take the pick-up. LOL

Nothing like a load of bread to take your worries away!

i am loading 26gr of varget with a 69gr match did notice a good group intill i got to max with varget

Thanks for all the advice! I don't know if the mag box is binding or not, but I have noticed that there is a space between the floor plate and the wood when closed. But I think it is just the spring that is doing that. The scope is a Pentax Pioneer and it adjusts well, but I will check it if the problem keeps happening. The two end screws are nice and tight, with the middle screw looser.

If the rifle needs to be cleaned every 5 shots, it is going down the road!

The barrel is floated now with a hot dog bun tab and and a bit of credit card. Thanks JB, that was a quick way to float the barrel. Some different loads will get worked up and I will head to the range tomorrow to see if the floating worked.

What velocity are you guys getting with your loads? Hornady lists 24.9 gr of Varget for both the 60 gr and 68 gr bullets and Nosler lists 24.5 gr of TAC and Varget for the 60 gr Bullet and 24.5 gr of TAC and 25.0 gr of Varget for the 69 gr bullet. I thought I was in the mid-range with my loads, but your guy's loads seem a little more than the books. Are manuals a little on the mild side for the 223?

Hodgdon goes to 26 of their Varget under the 69 grain Sierra.

I can only speak of the 45-70 and vertical stringing.One was primer used in cold weather and the other a bad hammer spring.

Jayco

All of the above. However there is one thing not mentioned. At least I don't think it was mentioned, because I didn't ead the complete thread.

What wasn't mentioned was breathing. Uneven breathing can cause verticle stringing. It is most prevalient among target shooters from the standing position, but it can affect your group size from a bench rest, also.

Don't know if this is contributing to the problem or not, but it is one more avenue to explore, and fairly easy to eliminate.

On the magazine binding issue. The Ruger makes clamping contact at both ends, the rear with the trigger guard and the front with the tab from front hinge. Just how much pressure should either of these contact points exert on the mag box? I've got one rifle where the front tab hardly makes contact at all and the mag box is actually too far to the rear, another where the box stands proud of the floorplate mortice enough to make heavy contact. Both are accurate rifles.

you may want to check that. i have notice that if i don't pay attention to how that box is placed into my stock that i will get what you just described. but if i go back and redo it and check everything then it will fit down in there without causing any pressure against the floor plate and i get a clean fit when closed and no space showing. it's to the point now if the floor plate doesn't close square to the stock i know the mag box is not in correctly.this holds true with all my ruger rifles i own. (centerfire of course)

JB, with respect to the plastic bread twisty, is it placed flat behind the recoil lug, lets say next to the forward action screw?
Or is it placed in a vertical position behind the recoil lug?
Thanks.

Not JB, but the idea is to lift the action up a little bit so as to remove contact from the barrel and forearm. The plastic tab is just a spacer to accomplish this.

Yes I get that. But I am wondering where JB wants him to put the "spacer". I am assuming on top somewhere adjacent to the forward action screw.

It would be placed on the action flat .

You want to raise the metalwork vertically in the stock..

Ok, thanks jim62, I thought that is the way it suppose to be.
JB wrote to put it "behind the recoil lug" so that was the reason for my clarification.

Well, one caveat about the recoil lug.

Some actions have pretty SHALLOW lug engagement. The Ruger is one of them. So are some of the newer Sakos etc.

Just make sure there is good contact with the existing bedding and don't go overborard with the shimming material.

Me, I don't even experiment with the floating. I just do it.

Not only do 99% of the rifle shoot better that way, as long as the action is well bedded, the floating pretty much cures any wandering POI problems down the road.

Unless the gun in question is an "Object d'Art" created to show off flawless ,skin tight inletting, a neatly floated barrel is the way to go on a hunting bolt rifle, IMHO.

I've done that with a XTR Fwt.. Improved it but still not good enough. I am playing around with some foreward pressure.
I did get a consistent two shots touching and the third 1 2/3 -2 inches away. Aussiegunwriter said that this means to seat the bullet deeper. I'll be checking that too.

Well, there are things wrong with many of the later New Haven built Model 70s that frankly, the most perfect bedding in the world cannot cure.

Been there ,done that.

They can be very frustrating rifles.

It does seem something's moving, doesn't it. All of the above bedding advise is good, and may reveal the "gremlin", but don't overlook the scope mounting system. The scope internals could be the culprit, but about the only way to find out is with another scope of known ability.
Good Luck,
Rick

By all means swap out the scopes. And check for anything loose.

Just don't do it all at once or you will not know which change made the diff.

I would swap scopes FIRST and eleminate that variable.

Then once I knew the scope issue was out, then start fiddling with the bedding.

In any case, it would be handy to have about 40 rounds of test ammo on hand.

Yes fellows, that is on the agenda. Its good to see "great minds" think alike.
Wouldn't that be a BREAK if it was the scope?