It seems to be a matter of "religion" on the net that Leupold makes the best scopes.

Is there any evidence that Leupold is any better than Burris. Specs and warranties seem to be the same except that the Leupold 1.5-5 comes with a 20mm objective and the Burris equivalent, which is actually 1.5-6, comes with a 40mm objective. With an illuminated reticle it costs less. Even without the illuminated reticle, it should be better in low light conditions. For mounting on a magnum, why shouldn't the Burris hold up equally as well?

Don't look at the specs, look through the scopes. You'll see the difference........................DJ

Then there's the warranty......

Gave a 223 and 3-9 Burris to my rancher buddy in Wyoming.Got out there one year later,and riding around in the pickup and shooting had shaken the ocular lense loose......it was trashed.

That's about all I had to see.Game over for me.

I think they both are pretty fine scopes and what little CS i've used with them both are excellent.

MY first and only Burris was a 4x that I mounted on a 44Mag Marlin lever rifle. I think it was shot six or seven when the crosshair broke. First letter I received after returning the scope was that it was a discontinued model???????Just bought it NIB. They did repair it for no charge but I sold it as soon as I could.Rick.

I would not buy a toilet paper holder made by Burris! I will carry a grudge against them until I breathe my last breath.

I own 27 Leupold scopes and a pair of binoculars, in addition to Weavers, Swaros and Schmidt & Benders as well.

My 13 or so year old Leupold binoculars gave up the ghost after a tough career....I was entirely satisfied with them, but the internals were jumbled and it would not focus...time to get a new pair. After a long comparison, I decided on a pair of Burris, which I ordered. I gave them to myself for a Christmas present and shortly afterward (BEFORE New Years day)the Burris binoculars were "cross eyed" and failed to focus. For those few days they were treated with kid gloves and not abused in any way. I mailed them to Burris and the gentleman on the phone with their warranty department told me not to worry, he would be replacing them and they should cross in the mail.

Turns out he was a liar or forgetful. I have no idea which description fits. Two weeks later, no binocs...but I do get a letter from me saying that the 3-5 day old binoculars were not warrantied, and it would cost me $52 to get them back! Huh? Less than a week old and no warranty, plus its gonna cost me to get them back? I sent them a nice letter again explaining that I had talked to the head dog of the warranty dept and #1) did not receive the replacement he promised,#2) They were less than a week old and #3) How on earth could they not be warrantied?

Got a nice letter back from them saying "$52 please before we work on it". In the meantime I had sent back my 13 year old Leupold binoculars to them explaining that I was entirely satisfied with them, but the pair had reached the end of their functional life and if they needed the binocs for parts for other repairs, have at it and thanks a bunch. One week later I get the Leupold binoculars back from the factory and they are as good as new! The repair slip had Leupold's usual reply in the amount due section of the repair slip....."N/C" and a short note telling me to let them know if everything's OK.

I sent a copy of Leupold's repair slip to Burris and pointed out the differences between their warranty service and Leupold's. I also told them to keep their 3-5 day old piece of junk and refund my money, and I would be telling anybody I could how they did business.

Naturally, I never received my check, nor any acknowledgment of any kind from them.

The whole Burris factory can fall into a sinkhole as far as I am concerned..the sooner the better. Y'all have a nice day.

Both are great scopes but only one is affordable to most guys.

Well that didn't take long..

To my eyes the Burris scopes are brighter and sharper, and I have quite a few now...to go with my Many Loopies.

Burris Warranty does suck, however, and they are notorious for that. Too bad, too. They make a fine product for the most part. Their EuroDiamond line is excellent and moderately priced, given the quality.

Seems like the foregin made Burris scopes have lost some quality. I used to own several but am now down to 1 Colorado made 4.5-14...not sure what will happen when it fails...

The two Leupolds are good glass...only gripe is the power adjustment is stiff to turn..

When I was technical Editor for a magazine, I got more complaints/enquiries about Burris scopes than every other brand combined.

The consumer has spoken.

JW

Burris is owned by Beretta, that should tel you all you need to know about their customer service, really non customer service.

That's like comparing oranges and rotton apples. I don't know how many Leupold items we own. I am third owner for a spotting scope I once returned with a note simply saying the images were not overly crisp. I shipped it on a Monday, it was back on a Friday, and there was no charge. They replaced the entire front end.

I had a bad experience with Burris CS myself. Sent a 2-7 Compact in for flecks of stuff floating around inside. It took a couple MONTHS to get it back- but what was worse is that they did the cardinal sin of CS, which is saying several times "it's shipped!" when in fact it wasn't, and wasn't even going to be for weeks!

Oh, and the flecks came right back.

Burris Optics is a sponsor at Predatormasters.com and the guys there have received outstanding customer service from Burris - recently. Maybe recently something has changed and Burris decided to do something about the complaints of their customer service?

Now they have added Steiner to the mix. I wont own any more!

This always make for a good pissin' match!

I think I can be fairly objective on this issue. These are the two brands I run. Both make good scopes in my opinion. Here are some of my observations.

I have had at least 6 Leupold failures. To be fair, they have all been on either a slug gun or a 416 Rigby. I have never put a Burris on a slug gun. The posi lock signature safari on my Rigby holds up perfectly. When I have used Leupold service, they have been perfect.

My only Burris failure was a Signature 3.5 x 10 I head to send in for service and I received it back in about 3 weeks. I know some of you have Burris service horror stories. Perhaps I lucked out, perhaps they corrected their issues.

My one complaint about Leupys is doing the "Leupold dance": move 2 clicks, nothing; move 2 more, nothing; move 2 more; POI moves 10 clicks. My Burris scopes change POI when I move the adjustment.

Again in the interest in being fair, once you get a Leupy zeroed, it normally stays.

This morning I carried a Vari x III 2.5x8 on my slug gun and this afternoon I will carry a VX-III 2.5x8 B&C on my muzzle loader.

All in all, I prefer the dependability of Burris' click adjustments and ability to hold zero. But I'm not getting rid of my Leupys. BTW, my next purchase will probably be a Zeiss Conquest.

405wcf

Thinkin' you'll like the Conquest. The 4" eye relief models in particular are very friendly scopes to use. The 3-9x40 and 1.8-5.5x38 are two personal favorites. I have found them to track very reliably.

I will Mirror what 405wcf has said.

I run more of both than anything else. One Burris and 4 leupold failures (5 if you count a power ring that needed channellocks to turn, slight exageration)

Leupold CS was fast and perfect, Burris was perfect but slower.

I have likes and dislikes from each. I feel like you get a little better glass per dollar with the Burris, part of that is the way Burris sells it scopes and that you often buy them well below MSRP. I feel like the Burris are perhaps a bit tougher (at least the variables), but Leupolds are lighter and have more eye relief at least at the low end of the magnification range.


So far I have found the fixed scopes from both to be bombproof.

I have a couple of favorite scopes from each company. Leupold FXII 4x and 6x and 2.5-8

On the Burris side I really like the 1.75x5 sig safari and the 1.5-6 ( both the sig and ED)

Wondering if any of you have sent your Leupold scopes back to have them loosen the power dial and objective rings?

That really is a great scope!

I've heard several reports of Burris dealing positively with their CS woes. Seems to me that they have mostly been fixed lately.

All,

My experience with Burris has been less than ideal. But then, I've only owned one ... and that was enough for me.

I bought a Burris rifle scope with my own money (rare for a gun writer) and it died most sincrely dead on it's first trip to the rifle range. Perhaps it was the hard-recoiling .223 Remington that did it in

Anyway, I shipped it back to Burris Customer Service with the receipt and warranty. They contacted me and wanted a little over fifty dollars to service the scope. I called and asked if that was an error; I was told, "Nope, that's the way it is."

I waited for a couple of days and called back again, just in case I accidently got a grumpy person on my first contact. Again, I was told that the charge to repair my scope that had seen the recoil of perhaps ten .223 rounds would be over fifty dollars. When asked for clarity, the person said, "Hey, we're busy here; if you want your scope fixed, send the money."

I wrote Burris and advised them that if they were that hard-up for money, they could keep my new scope with my compliments. They must have believed me because that's the last I heard of it ... I never received any reply.

So, Burris got my money, lost a customer and, even worse, I was an active gun writer at the time. I swore NEVER to mention a Burris product, even though the magazine had them as an advertiser and it would have been PC to have raved about Burris optics.

Frankly, I never wanted any of my readers exposed to such customer "service" treatment. I tend to me non-confrontational, so my reaction was to simply ignore the whole affair.

Deep down, I was, and still, offended by Burris Optics' approach to business. By being greedy and short-sighted, a CS agent lost my business and that of some of my readers ... forever.

Maybe I should have given the idiots at Burris another chance to screw me. Naw, I'm not quite THAT stupid.

Steve

PS. For the record, I have owned literally hundreds of Leupold products, most of which I paid for myself (again, RARE for a gun writer). I have never had a single Leupold rifle scope, pistol scope, binocular or spotting scope fail on me. Frankly, I know Leupold's Customer Service is excellent, because folks rave about it ... I, however, have never had a failure, so I've never had to deal with Leupolds CS.

PSS. That dealing with Burris still pisses me off. You could prolly tell!!!

Amen Dogzapper.....sounds like you and I had the same customer service manager, although I was a little more forceful with my replies to them. I would have given anything to have seen their face when they received my second letter along with the Leupold repair invoice.

That company can rot and burn down for all I care.

Friend Steve -

I too have had such bad service from Burris, I'll never do it again.

I killed one of their scopes, twice. Took less than one box of factory 300WM.

I can't like them at all and probably will NEVER purchase from them again.

When I moved to Colorado several years ago, I thought it would be "neat" to support a CO company and bought several Burris scopes. That idea last about a year before I had sold, traded or given every one of them away. The handgun scopes on Contenders, in particular, gave me fits along with the short eye relief on a 338-06 Mauser. I recall visiting their shop in Greeley a few times, asking about the status on repairs, and being underwhelmed as well.

I tested an illuminated EuroDiamond model about two years ago with the thought that I might use it on a bear hunt. It died on the first trip to the range -- and no, it wasn't the battery. On the plus side of the ledger, I have one Fullfield II riding atop a 300 WSM with Burris' version of the LR reticle. That one has performed as it should. The vast majority of my scopes, however, are Leupolds.

It is settled. There is no "Vs" to it. It is a no contest in favor of Leupold.

JW

Personally I've never had anything bad from Burris.

However owning a Leupold has never been a bad descision. Something is just satisfying knowing that you have a good piece of glass that is backed by an amazing warrenty and customer service.

Any product, any company, is no better than it's weakest link. Customer service is the one place NOT to have the weak link. If you piss off the customer, the customer who has already spent money with you, he will never be back.

My daddy, with whom I never had a good relationship, was right about one simple business axiom:

You can give a guy a lot of haircuts ... but you can only SCALP HIM ONCE."

Speaking as a humble citizen and a retired writer who will never write again, Burris SUCKS, JUST SUCKS in the extreme. It will be a very pleasant day in Purgatory before I will spend one more penny on a Burris product.

Burris can kiss my butt.

The only worse CS I've received was on a Pentex camera. I bought it for like $300 and the camera failed on the first hunting trip to Alberta (worse, I killed my biggest whitetail ... 178 B&C ... and was forced to record the kill on a throw-away Red Chinese camera). So I got back in the States and had it repaired by Pentex Service ... you guessed it, $200 bill.

And the same camera failed the following year in Alberta and I did not get a photo of my second-largest whitetail.

I put the Pentex camera on a fence post and gave it a .280 Ackley enema. Blew it all to Hell with a single 120 Ballistic Tip.

Pentex can kiss my ass, as well.

Steve

I dont like Burrises upgrade tactics."we dont make that model anymore therefore we dont have parts for it, but for a certain amount of $ we will upgrade you to the new model"


If a product has a lifetime warrenty you shouldnt have to pay extra money to get the new model if the dont stock parts for service!

i have/had maybe 50 of each. a leupold 6x42 and the leupold 3-9x50 made very favorable impressions on me for clarity and brightness, and i like the 2.5-8x's for there eye relief...in the variable compacts i prefer the burris for eye relief..IMO the 3-9x fullfield II is more crisp and brighter then the vari-x II in the 40mm, and in the 3(.5)-10 range, the signature has better light transmission then the vari x 111...i like the size and weight better of the 4.5-14 vari-x III better then the signature 4-16x, but i like its optics better and extra magnification... i have never had the misfortune of having to use either companies service department for scopes, but have sent 3 leupold bino's back over the years for collmination issues which were corrected at no charge to me, with exceptional turn around time...when it comes to politics, i sit in a camp, but not scopes !!

Scott, I agree with you that Burris has some fine optics. But when it comes to customer service they have completely dropped the ball. I called last week over a problem with binos and was told by two different people I would get a call right back. I didnt get a call from either so I called back a few days latter.
Tired of the old song and dance "we dont make that model anymore" when you buy a product that cost over $700 (with a lifetime or 30 warrenty)and they wont fix a minor issue, I'm done with them!

I have no beef with Burris customer service and like a previous poster said: Look through them both and make your decision there. I have 4 FFII's and have no complaints, although all of my "first string" rifles wear Leupolds.

With so many opinions on this thread, I just have no alternative but to add that I have nothing to say about this terribly, terribly weighty matter.

Carry on!

That's gotta be a first..

Not really, RD.

John B and others will tell you, unless you are on the masthead of a prominent hunting/gun rag, Leupold is pretty stingy with opening up a writer accounts even for LOANER scopes let alone "freebies".

Even then, they don't send product out like popcorn-

They have always been much harder to get a writer account with than say Bushnell, Redfield, or Burris.

Actually, I found that firms like Zeiss and Swarovksi were much more willing to send test samples than Leupold.

That sure was the case 15-20 years ago. It may have changed, but I doubt it.

I've got Pentax, Bushnell, Weaver, Burris, and Leupold on my rifles.

Burris earned my respect a few years ago. I was just back from a hunting trip and cleaning my rifle. My son, who was pretty young at the time, was "helping" me. He flipped the gun vise and the rifle flipped onto the concrete floor FFII-side down.

I sent the scope back with an explaination of what had happened. I noted that I'm a bit of a rifle junkie and that I had no brand loyalty. It wasn't a warranty issue so I'd not have held a grudge if they'd have done nothing or charged me for what they did do (although I'd likely have switched to Leupold at that point). A tech called me from the service dept a couple of weeks later and said that the tube was bent, and asked if I'd like him to replace with a used tube. I asked how much for labor and parts he said nothing. I asked how much for shipping he said nothing.

They sent it back as promised and the scope has been working great ever since. Certainly earned my respect and I'm going to buy another couple sometime soon. That having been said, I do like Leupold and trust them for my big hunting trips and put them on my best rifles.

I love the Burris Ballistic Plex though...

I have several Burris scopes on some hard kicking Big Bores, and have never had a problem with one of them. Excellent eye relief to boot. Can't comment on their service as I've never needed it.

Have only owned one Leupold and the eye relief wasn't great, which for me is an important factor. My second son has a VXII,3-9 X40 on his .338 Win Mag and has experienced magnum eyebrow more than once.

A good friend has recently switched from Leupold to Burris. His comment was that Burris offers a better product for the money and more recent Leupolds were shaking loose, especially the adjustments.

Perhaps both companies have changed their products somewhat, maybe Leupold is not as good as in the past and Burris is better... I dunno, But I have no complaints about Burris and I sure like the eye relief of 5" on my fixed 4X's.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I like both brands about equally as well, but Leupold has them beat hands down in the customer service department. Had a bad experience with Burris on a scope repair once, hopefully it was an isolated experience.

I had a similar experience with a 1.5X6 Signature Series scope. The first time it fogged up on a nasty season opener and cost me a day worth of hunting to return home for a different rifle. When I got it back from Burris I remounted it and resighted it during the following summer and when I pulled it out in the fall there were several flakes of what appeared to be paint on the inner lens. Back again but who knows for how long.

I do have another version of this same scope on another rifle and have never had a problem with that one and it is a great scope on an elk gun. Great field of view and very bright under low light conditions.


270

I always thought that Steelhead might be wrong about his opinion of Burris...........now that Steve commented I stand corrected!!!

Ken,

I can't thank you enough and am sure I speak for everyone else on the Fire. What would we do without your measured insight and strong opinions???

Yes I have. They lubricated the rubber seals. Worked great. My only gripe is they left quite a bit of lube on the exterior of the scope that I had to clean off. I can handle that. I now lubricate my own Leupold adjustment rings. It's quite simple, really.

I sent a VXII 2-7X33 to the Canadian service centre because of the stiff adjustment ring and the sticky windage adjustment. Got it back in a week and all is good. The zoom ring is still much stiffer than I like. I'd be interested, Big Redhead, to know how you lubricate yours.

Since I own nothing but Leupold scopes, I can't comment on other brands. The only customer service I needed was when I left my adjustment covers on the bench when sighting in a new 2-7 - I told the rep what happened and he sent me two new ones N/C. I do have some stiff zoom rings however...



A primer on lubricating the zoom ring WOULD be useful.

I own more than a few FFII's, and sent one in to Burris CS about 5 years ago to have the parralax corrected. Got it back to my door in 10 days -- that's meeting the standard.

My suspicion is that Burris C.S. actually improved quite a bit, and then they were bought by Beretta, so that's the end of any improvement in that department. I'm not opposed to buying Burris now, but it's always with the assumption that it's a throw-away scope. FWIW, Dutch.

Guys,

I have a request into Leupold for the proper way to lube. I would rather not tell you something that isn't proper or would void the warranty. I'll let you know their response, but I can about guess that they don't want us doing it ourselves.

I prefer Leupold but a Burris would be my second choice. Probably doesnt make much of a difference either way but I have complete confidence in Leupold.

That sums it up for me.

WOW, before I bought my Burris 2-7x I looked up reviews and they were raves. So I ordered and purchased it, and have been fantastically impressed with quality, clarity and (to me) unmatched tracking. Now I'm feeling a little queasy if anything ever goes wrong; and down-right nauseous discovering that Beretta now owns them.

Guess I'm gonna be a leupy-dude, now.

Cant go wrong with a leupold

I sent back a Leupold 2.5-8x32 VX-3 handgun scope last week that wasn't tracking/adjusting properly on my .260 Rem. Encore barrel. I received a note back from them in the mail yesterday that had my name, address, scope serial number and said that I should have the scope back in my hands in 15 days. I also received an email that said the same. I sent in a Cabela's Premium Alaskan Guide scope the same day that wasn't holding zero and I haven't heard anything from them yet, they're getting a phone call tomorrow. I wasn't worried about Leupold's warranty, my experience with Burris and a malfunctioning pistol scope was a disaster, I'll never buy a Burris again. I'll buy a Simmons or Tasco first.

I bought a Burris Fullfield, the original ones probably 25 years or more ago or so. I had mounted it on a Winchester Model 100 in .308 I was sighting in probably 2 weeks prior to my trip. All of a sudden looking through the scope I see a x as opposed to a +. I called Burris in Colorado,talked with a service lady and explained my situation and the time constraints. She said to send my scope in to them for repair and she would send me a loaner right away. I received the scope very quickly and mounted it. The scope worked fine and I never had a problem with it and ended up selling or trading it. I have heard the horror stories for some time now and I am not really in the market for any glass right now. When I am ready to buy,most likely it will be a Leupold. You NEVER hear bad about them,often bad about Burris. I guess I do listen to others opinions,especially when they are often and the same message.

I sent my old (25years) Leupold 6.5x20 in last year to have turrets installed, when it came back they had replaced the objective lens, as it was defective. It was news to me, I never had any problem with it. I have a bunch of Leupolds, and will remain loyal to them. My brother has a Burris, ( can't recall the model) on a Savage 99, 250-3000 that you can't sight in because it runs out of adjustment. It worked fine on this rifle for many years. He sent it in for repair and they told him the scope is fine, their must be a ring or base issue. I installed it and could not get it sighted in, it also looks like it's full of water compared to my Vari x 111's. Their full of chit.

Leupold is the best. Amen!

Hmm.

I suspect that some of what has been reported here is due to the ups and downs of the Burris company. When Burris first started, their scopes immediately got a reputation for quality and toughness.

A number of years later Don Burris sold the company. Burris scopes quickly went downhill. The very first Burris scope I received from that era was defective out of the box, which didn't impress me much. Customer service also sucked.

However, a few years later one the original Burris people came back, and apparently kickd butt and took names. I have had excellent results from Burris scopes ever since, and have never had to use their repair service. (I have heard from a number of people that Burris repair and warranty service now are recently much improved. I would be interested in hearing from anybody who'd use either within the past couple of years.)

I personally like the Fullfield II's a LOT, and have them on several rifles. I recommend them strongly to anybody looking for a GOOD lower-priced scope.

I have also tested the American and Phillipine FFII's side-by-side, and if anything the Phillipine model is a little better. They are made on the same machinery, but seem a little smoother-finished. Optics are if anything a little better. And I have tested the Phillipine FFII's on rifles as hard-kicking as a .300 Weatherby with no problems.

I've also had one of the 1.75-5x Signature Safaris for several years. It's been on several hard-kicking rifles from .338 Winchester up to .416 Rigby, with no problems at all. The eye relief is great, the length of the tube is plenty even for very long actions, and it's one of the few variables that I trust completely.

My extensive experience with Burris has mostly been relatively recent, however, which may be why it differs from that of many people who posted here.

Nice to hear on the Phillipins FFIIs John...Ive got a couple of them ( six FFIIS altogether now...) and like them a LOT too...but there have been a few naysayers since they switched to the PI...
There will be more in my collection before its over...

John, nice to hear about your experience with the 1.75-5 Signature Safari.
I got one last year and it has quickly become my favorite scope.

Was really fond of my 1.75-5 FFII as well and wish I'd never have sold it.

BTW, the only time I've ever used Burris CS was 2-3 years ago when Burris replaced a set of binos my boys destroyed by tearing off the twist up eyecups. I expected to pay for a repair but Burris stepped up and sent me a brand new set gratis.

Tom,

Have the naysayers brought any back to the store? Or are they just grumpy because the scopes are made offshore?

Count me in the crowd of people who've simply had rotten results with Burris customer service. I sent multiple scopes to them, none ever fixed to my satisfaction - there was always a runaround. One pistol scope was sent back multiple times and the last time it was never sent back to me. That was several years ago.

Someone else said it well, "that company can rot and burn down for all I care."

I have a couple of FFIIs and wouldn't hesitate to get another. I used their customer service to have new knobs installed on a scope and had no issues.

Actually one has been returned for malfunction.....out of a total of hundreds sold...

That now brings the number of total Burris scope returns for my 20 years up to........3

I just bought a Burris Signature 1.5-6x40mm and installed it on my .375 Model 70. Haven't shot it yet because we're having a blizzard now. I installed this instead of the Leupold 1.5-5x20mm because I think it's a superior scope.

1. I need 1.5 as the minimum magnification, for DG. Both scopes do this.

2. The Burris has better "twilight factor" due to its larger objective and slightly higher magnification. The Burris is 50% better.

3. The Burris comes with an illuminated dot for shooting in Africa when the light is going. To get this in Leupold, I would have to buy a 30mm tube (and therefore spend another $100 on Talley mounts--the ones I have are 1 inch) or go to a clunky 3.5-10 scope.

In short, in this case I feel Burris simply makes a better product. I'll keep my Leupolds on my .458 and my .300 Wby. I think Burris has likely solved their customer service problems like Mule Deer suggests.

I've loaded up some 300 grain full-power loads for sighting in.

"2. The Burris has better "twilight factor" due to its larger objective and slightly higher magnification. The Burris is 50% better."

I should hope the Burris 50% is better! With four times the lens surface area it better be.

The true eye relief on the Burris would bother me on a 375 that might be shot at odd angles. I have yet to see a Burris come close to advertised eye relief numbers...
art

Burris scopes dominate Hunter Bench Rest competition and the new FFP scopes are impressive - well accepted in the tactical games.
Each has their hardcore followers, like I wish I could afford NightForce, S&B, or...