I have a fairly heavy gun for open/long range use (280AI). Want a shorter and more nimble gun for brush and medium range hunting. In a bolt rifle with a 22" barrel, would a 7-08 loaded with 160gr. bullets have close to as much knockdown as a 308 with 165's? For some reason I have the idea that I need more knockdown power for woods hunting. Know the 7-08 would be slightly more versatile for field hunting. I guess the question would be, which would you prefer for a second/lightweight gun?

Either one will ventilate deer quite easily.

You know there's no such thing as knockdown power from a rifle you could shoot and not be knocked down while doing it, right?

If you picked up identical rifles, not knowing the chambering, neither you, nor your quarry would ever know the difference.

My personal pick would be the .308, simply because I have a ton of brass and components.

+1

that 7-08 with a 140NAB will let the air out of em just fine. And it will give ya 2 holes just in case no one informed the deer it was supposed to drop upon bullet impact.

FWIW, I like the 7-08 as much as the next fellow, but...

How could the 7-08 be more "versitile" than a .308?

Considering the fact .308s shoot everything from 110g varmint slugs to 180 Elk busters , I don't see how in the heck the 7mm-o8 can be called "more versatile".

A guy would have to be drinking the 7mm Koolaid pretty deep to believe that nonsense...

They both smack deer really well....at any sane distance.

My preference ... the 308Win with a round-nosed projectile. Odd thing, but the RN projectiles seem to 'hit' harder, but I think its just they start opening a bit quicker. A bonded RN or flat-nosed projectile is almost perfect.
Cheers...
Con

There is not a nickel's worth of difference between the two cartridges. If you want a real "woods' gun, get a 45/70.

If you don't reload, then a .308. Otherwise it's a toss up.

I'm with the you or deer won't know the difference crowd. Some of the claims that I read on the internet from the 7mm08 crowd are ridiculous and to get some of the velocities claimed those guys must be pushing some really insane pressure or smoking something . Now having said that I like the 7mm08 for what it is and in your case that's probably the way I would go as you already have a 280 so I would guess you already have a selection of 7mm bullets available. So to get it up and running you need a set of dies and a bag of brass. As to versatility I believe you would be splitting hairs but the 308 does handle heavier bullets a bit better with it's 180 gr and maybe 200gr the 7mm tops out at 175 and really the 7mm08 is running out of case capacity with that weight as is the 308 with the 200. IMHO the heaviest practical weights for the two is 160 gr in 7mm08 and 180gr in 308 . Again I doubt the deer or elk could tell the difference. By the way I have a 308 my buddy has a 7mm08 in similar rifles. The deer try and avoid both of us.

I have a 308, love it, shoot 130 grain reloads in it, no need for heavier on deer. The little 7-08 fits better for the WT game shooting the 120's..if your strickly a deer hunter and not all anal about .3 inch groups find one of those old blue wood handled model 7's in 7-08...

This all sounds vaguely familiar...I'll check back in 150 pages...when the fishin and wimmens pics start...

Strong language will kill a deer.

Pick the rifle that fits you the best, and then shoot the hell out of it.

Broken record but my 2 cents

I own 2 rifles in 308 and am very happy. I suspect I could own the same 2 in 7-08 and be equally happy.

I've noticed that, too.



Now ya talkin'

I was thinking the same thing.

Pervert!!!! But I like the way yer thinkin. Steve

Short and nimble medium range brush gun? Your talkin' 30-30 & 35 Rem levers. Someone mentioned the 45/70 and it will drop anything bigger in North America.

7-08 is a fine caliber but a tad expensive if you have to buy ammo off the shelf while out on a hunt. Sometimes ammo gets lost and you may want to choose something you can find at Wal-Mart.

+1

Both are fine, but add me to the 308 crowd.

Either will work great for what you want.

Since you're running a 280AI, it might be handier to load for the 7-08 if you are rolling your own.

Continuity in bullets can be handy sometimes, and I like the .284 projectiles. I'm also a big 7-08 fan, but more on the lighter side of the bullet spectrum than you are talking.

Were I you, I'd be thinking about 120 TTSX's and working up loads for both rifles with that bullet.

If I wanted real "knockdown" in the brush, I'd bust shoulders with those.

DJ

I knew it...I knew it......




Casey

I'm assuming you handload? that said, you already own a 280AI, so I'd go 7mm-08 and I'd use 140 Partitions. Then again, I prefer 7's...

Also helps you streamline you components a bit as you can interchange bullets.

There is zero difference in the way either the .308 or 7mm-08 will kill deer as I have used both in the past.

God luck!

CLB

I'd go 30-30

The 29-08 is far superior to either.

I sold my 29-08 so I could pic up a 31.5-06.

I'm late to this thread, but here's my take...

First sentence: True.
Second sentence: My personal pick would be the 7mm-08 for the same reason. As far as components go, you can neck down the .308 brass to 7mm. 'Course, you're stuck with the .308 bullet component as is.

Of course, everyone knows the 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679-08 is the absolute best.

Steve

Mule Deer,
Wasn't the B29 a short magnum? I thought that it was supposed to fit the same actions as a 29-08 but with a fatter powder column for more velocity with no increase in recoil.

29-06 Rules!

But bullet selection is limited.

I really love this stuff. But does anyone truly believe there's a difference in how these two rounds perform on whitetail deer?

ar15a292f,

The B29 was closer to a .294 Winchester. It totally field-dressed deer and elk on impact, but the 29-08 only 3/4 dresses them.

This is true. I shot a deer and as it was running away the skin fell off and the guts fell out of it.

Horrifying sight.

+1

C'mon -- join the fun!

Steve

I have both and feel that they are equal on whitetail. I use the .308 because I don't reload and have a Sav 99 lever chambered for it. My Mod 99 likes cheap Fed blue box and Win white box in 150gr. Good luck.

Same here, I've got thousands of 308 cases and a lot of 30 caliber bullets. I've also got tons of 7mm bullets, but I'll pick the 308 most days. I like the larger heavier bullet for up to 300 yards.

I once had a Rem Mod 7 stainless with 20 in. barrel in .308.

I also had a Rem Mod 7 stainless with 20 in. barrel in 7mm/08.

I shot a whitetail buck with the .308 and it traveled about 20 feet before dropping dead. Later that same season I shot another whitetail buck with the 7mm/08 and it traveled about 15 feet and dropped dead. (both were shot through the lungs broadside)

I decided that the 7mm/08 was a superior deer cartridge and sold the .308.

With a 308,after you kill a few deer with it,you only have to hold it up for them to see,and they die.A 7-08 is new enough that it probably won't get this kind of respect.You can tell that I'm a 308 guy,but either will work just fine.Recoil should be about the same,the 308 has a wider selection of bullets and is easier to find ammo for,and the ammo is usually cheaper.Theres not a wrong answer here,good luck with your choice. Lightman

The .308 Win and the 7mm-08 are my two favorite deer cartridges. I've shot a number of deer with each of them, with the exact same result: dead deer. The deer could not tell one whit of difference in what they'd been whacked with. Nor could I. Get the rifle that appeals to you in either caliber, and then go hunting. There is no difference in performance. None.

Bonefish:

You say you are looking for a nimble, 22" rifle for short and middle range deer hunting and you are considering the .308 Win.
You have just given yourself the best excuse in the world to find a Savage 99 in .300 Sav. (Very cool). Also available in .308 Win, but not quite as cool.

But you did say you were looking for a bolt gun and you are considering the 7-08. That gives you the perfect excuse to find a Model 70 Fwt in 7x57 (again, very cool).

Or you could be Very Practical, if only slightly less cool, and just buy yourself a new Marlin XS7 in 7-08 with the camo stock and go forth and shoot stuff!
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/centerfireBoltAction/XS7c.asp,
Have fun!

I don't have a lot of experience with whitetail hunting, but I can tell you that both the 7-08 w/139-140gr cup&core bullets and the .308 with 150gr & 165gr cup&core bullets will kill caribou with boring regularity.

I agree that there's not a nickle's worth of difference in their performance with medium weight bullets.

I have hunted caribou in thick woodlands along rivers and on the open tundra at 200+yds and the critters didn't know the difference between them. They died right there.

Just my $0.02

Ed

JM,

Where can I get one of those 31.5-06's? I am feeling the need for a big bore.

Ed

Everyday Hunter, You're right. I should join the fun and not pretend to be smarter than I am. So my pick is the 7mm08 because it's darn near perfect for whitetail deer. I know this because I once read that the 7mm bullet is the sweet spot, not too large, not too small, just right. Moreover, the 7mm08 is the most efficient of all the 7mm rounds. I read that too, though I'm not to sure what it means. Someday I hope to shoot a deer with my favorite deer killer, that is after I buy one.

Superior knock down power is achieved with an F150@60, not in a 160gr. bullet.

I vote for a 7-08, 21", using 120's or 140's. Your 280AI will LOVE them as well.

I've used both 7-08 with 140s and 308 with 150s or 165s. Both worked very well and put two holes in each deer. What you need to pay attention too when in the woods is having the right glass and low magnification. I used a 3-9x40 for several years and went to a 1 3/4-5x20 on my 308. Most any caliber will work great in the woods as long as the rifle is quick to handle and get on target and the glass is low power. Most deer encounters are on the short-range side and I never shot a deer over 50yds and frequently less, much less.

Should'nt be any harder to find 7-08 that he has yet to own than the 280AI he already owns.

Having a well-balanced gun that's quick to the shoulder is FAR more important than the chambering. That being said, in your case I'd go with the 7mm for convenience, since you already have 7mm bullets.

That's one of the reasons why I have a shorter, lighter 308 to go with my longer 30-06.

My thoughts exactly. I assume you're already reloading if you're running a 280 AI. I busted a doe with a 7-08 this weekend and it worked great!

My take on all this malarky is someone needs to get a life. Unless you want to load 30-30 170 Flat Nose for the SPLAT effect in the 308, there's nothing to choose from.

However, in case you run into a Virginia Yeti who would like you for dinner, you should carry a 416, which will also kill most whitetails with only one shot.

Wayne

POST YOUR LOAD!

Yep! It's the old 270 vs 30-06 deja vu. Like dancing angels on a pinhead. No answer.

Wayne

Atta boy! You dun guud!

Steve

If you want more knockdown power in a woods rifle why not a 338 Fed? A slightly bigger hole can't be a bad thing, and plenty of oomph to put two holes in a deer. Run some 200 Hot Cors, or 200 Hornadys and you'll have a deer thumpin' machine. Should you find yourself in an open field, it'll work there too. But nothing wrong with the 7mm-08 or 308 either. Condsidering a 7mm-08 myself, but I already have the 308 and 338 Fed...

Now, to be totally impartial to the two, you should have shot the same buck with the two cartridges and THEN made your decision. Your protocol is incomplete due to the difference in testing medium...

PRM, if you had a 260 or 7/08 you may not want the 308, as they kick less and kill well, that said, the 338 Fed is HIGHLY likely to satisfy when it hits vitals. I like the medium bore just because - see it as a practical round for common ranges.

I'd run a 338F purely for a deer/hog and big game rifle. No paper punching other than sighting in, and no varmints save a random 'yote.

Still for shooting enjoyment, can't ignore the shootability of the smaller bores w/less recoil. The 7/08 is not bad, but a 260 and 243 just makes you WANT to spend more time and shoot more ammo at the range. Not a bad thing.

308 to me = cheap bulk ammo, and scopes calibrated for it, if you desire. ALOT of rifle options as well. Practical yes, but I just don't need one since I have a 260 and 6.5x55.

If I did have a 308, or down the road, for deer, it will be fed one bullet.

130 TTSX. Lighter recoil......deadly on game.

I guess I'd go with the 308, I like 30 calibers, and it seems the 308 doesn't get the respect it should. It's awfully close to the 30-06 with the lighter bullets and that's good enough for me.

Neither, the 270 kills a little quicker.

Still no girl or fish pics...

I'll check back later......

Just for you...

P.S. Word is she uses a .257 Roberts for whitetail.



Which reminds me, wish I had a picture of her white tail...

I love the 'fire......

Bonefish,

IMHO, 7-08 and .308 are functional equivelants with one having very slight edges over the other in various categories but neither clearly "better".

So I'm gonna go off the rez here and say, the answer to the question you are asking is: none of the above! Instead, find or build a quick-handling .358 and then, and only then, will you have maximized what you called "smackdown" at woods ranges from the .308 parent case.

It really is just that good.

The .308s I've owned have been more accurate than the 7mm-08s I've owned. The .308 is cheaper to shoot.

I currently own a 7mm-08 and wish it were a .308 so I didn't have to buy 7mm bullets.

6 of 1/2 dozen of the other.

300 savage

Ok I'm pretty new to the fire, but this has turned into the best topic I have ever seen on a forum. Some BS argument about ridiculous calibers that is a blast to argue over mixed in with T&A. I think it should be someones responsibility to include pics like that ever so often in every topic section. I'm looking at you moderator.

I love my .308, and the whitetails have hated it over the years. Plus I would venture to guess no one has mentioned this, but when the apocalypse hits you'd be better off with a 308 because the bullets are going to more readily available- you have to think outside the box when questions like this are posed. Those damned zombies aren't going to kill themselves . . .

7mm-08 appears to be increasing in both chambering and ammo availability: Cost Effective Medium Game Cartridges

It seems like there once was... sometime in the deep dark past... a 7-08 vs. .308 thread that you woulda LOVED. It was "ridiculous argument" defined. Even included some BigStick! And plenty of T&A in the last 25 or so pages.... grin...... and limericks, too.

But you get props for mentioning zombies. Can't BELIEVE that'un didn't make it into the last thread.

WestofPecos, thanks for the link. Lots of interesting stuff there if you click on their title or use the menu to the right.

We aim to please.

Zombie T and A!



Match this, Tractor Girl!




She'd eat Fridge Girl alive - literally.




Porch girl, meet Perch Girl! (see, she's "perching" on a rock..., oh hell, they're not funny if you have to explain it.)

I had no idea zombie chicks were so busty...

You know someone has to do it dont ya???????? POST YOUR LOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This one's for you, Jeff...

Let's split it.....303 Savage

Both in one photo:

Being a traditionalist to a certain extent, I'd prefer a 7 x 57 over a 7-08, but for no good reason other than nostalgia. I think a .308 is marginally more versatile, mainly on paper.

Both are great choices.

Jim in Idaho, for that I'm glad to be in Idaho with you Man! I might not make it to ever read another forum again . . . . I'll take which ever one you guys don't want.

She's doesn't seem to be using good fly casting technique. That's okay, I can teach her how to properly operate a rod...

Oh yeah, I choose 7mm-08.

BMT, you just HAD to go and bring her back in to it...

GUILTY!

Yowsa.

Sigh. I love a good 7-08 vs. 308 thread.

Keepin it clean, this time...

308 because ...............thinkin........i own one....that sound good?

And a 7x57 is slightly more versatile for field hunting. And it is classy.

Quite a few years ago a hunting buddy and I were New Hampshire and killed 8 pointers on the same morning. When we checked in the deer one of the questions asked was, what type of weapon was used and then what caliber? My buddy checked his in first and to the above questions answered; rifle, .308. When I checked in mine my answer was; rifle, .308. The clerk says to us, what's with you guys and .308s. I said what do you mean. He says, I've checked in 10 deer this morning and 7 of them were killed with .308s. Being my usual smart azz self, I said to him, well I would think you've answered your own question.

If loaded for long-range work, the .308 will run RIGHT with the 7-08 in terms of wind drift.... contrary to what you might hear....

In terms of energy and flatness, here's a comparison of what my software kicked out as the two flattest factory loads. Note that the .308 holds an energy edge out to, I dunno, 450 yards or so?

Anyway peas in a pod. I post this gack only because sometimes whatever differences there might be get a bit... magnified by Internet rhetoric.

Jeff, cut it out with the gack, you're ruining a good thread.

BMT............carry on sir.

So for all practical purposes neither the deer or the shooter can tell the difference.

dead or dead

I was going to stay away from reading this thread as it's just another one of those 30-06 vs .270 BS threads.

BUT ........... then I saw the pictures.

It's been a while since the Military Sniper Rifle Thread died. Could this be start of another one?

Keep up the good work boys ! ! !

Lee24 was the catalyst for the last great thread and now we have JeffO posting pictures of graphs and what-not. Maybe?

No offense Jeff. I just hate to see all this on topic discussion. I love it when a thread degenerates.

Definitely the pictures improve when the thread degenerates. "I just hate it when THAT happens ..."

Tom

Jeff,

Can you do something similar but with a knockout factor graph?

More precisely a 36 D with a 36" waist vs 36 C with a 38" inch waist.

Kimber 7
Who is the Blonde!!!!!
AMRA

You need to knock about 10" off the waist numbers.

That's getting into wildcat territory not the generic .308 vs 7-08 debate.

Now here is a graph I'd like to get behind.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Oh Yeah !

Good graph.

Ahh Grasshoppa... when you can snatcha the pebble from-a my haaand, then you will know about thread degeneration..... lol....

Besides you wankers are experiencing premature degeneralation.

FIRST we get a good pizzin' match going THEN in swoops BMT et al with the half-nekkid-wimmins pics.

There's an etiquette to this stuff. Sheesh!!

WANKER, WANKER ????

WHO YOU CALLIN' A WANKER?

Pizzin' match begins right here and now.


..................................
..................................
..................................
..................................



pizzin' match over and done.

Moving on ...

More girly pics please.

Jamie Eason, at your service...

Did I mention this was the best thread ever. . .

I try to never contradict another's opinion, so will merely offer this on the off chance you are unaware of it. If you have an entire weekend with nothing to do, it gets "interesting" somewhere about a quarter to a third of the way in.

Us Military Sniper Rifles

The 308 with 150 grain flatnose 30-30 bullets started at 2850 or so will kill a whitetail, bang flop. Kills em, guts em, skins em and grinds the meat, all at one time.

Wayne

We talking 308 norma? How's that one doing for you peepsight?

in the woods or on the prairie, you will, on average, put your deer on the ground quicker with a faster bullet...
say the .243 w/90 speer spitzer....
a simply kick azz deer load and quite accurate in most rifles is that bullet with a max load of imr 4895....

wow...

that works too...

I am going to accept that there is no real difference between the two for knockdown. I just want a smaller and lighter gun. Thanks for the responses. I shot a 200+ lb buck yesterday with my 280 and he ran 50 yards straight down a hill in the woods. After dragging him up the hill, I may go with a howlitzer for knockdown. Do wounded deer ever run uphill, toward the truck?

With the same exterior size, the 308 barrel will be an ounce or two lighter than a 7-08. A 358 would be even lighter, with a little more "knockdown."

Bruce

Bonefish: Seldom run uphill. Similar to montezuma's REVENGE!

Since we inflicted pain on them... they try to be as much PAIN IN The BUTT as possible to us.

CONGRATS:

JWALL

Bonefish,
I feel your pain I bought a sako 85 kodiak in 375 for this purpose. 260 grain AB's and BT's. There is only one problem for this it's a little much on the recoil side for Zombies. It's not a problem if there like Romero's Zombies but if they are the 28 days later variety well a little faster recovery time is needed I feel.