I think Santa will be bringing my son a rifle chambered in .243 Win for Christmas. For the time being, he will be shooting factory ammo to hunt deer (and maybe black bear if you think this cartridge/ammo is up to the task).

According to the Barnes ballistics data, the 80 gr. TTSX Vor-Tx ammo is moving at 3350 fps. According to Federal's website, the 85 grain TSX is traveling at 3200 fps. I'm assuming recoil will be about the same, but if one were noticeably lighter, that would weigh into this decision as well.

Assuming that both loads shoot comparably well, would you shoot the Barnes Vor-Tx 80 grain TTSX ammo or the Federal Premium 85 grain TSX ammo?

Thanks.

If I was going to shoot a lot, I would be shooting the cheapest 100-grain Federal ammo from Walmart for less than $15 per box. I'm quite sure that ammo would work for deer, too. I've shot some good groups with that cheap Federal ammo in .243.

For bear, I think I would use one of the TSX/TTSX loads you were mentioning, but I don't have a preference to give.

CoalCracker,

My experience is that the Tipped TSX's open up more violently and consistently than the hollow-point TSX's, which especially helps with smaller-caliber bullets.

The 80-grain TTSX should also recoil slightly less, though whether the difference will be noticeable is debatable. The 80 will also shoot flatter over normal hunting ranges, and I doubt there would be any noticeable difference in results on game.

John, This is music to my ears. Early-on in my reloading/hunting "career" I noticed the variability in terminal performance of jacketed lead bullets. Years before I ever heard of Barnes Bullet Co. I liked the idea of a "pre-programmed" monometal bullet that would perform over a broad velocity range. But the popular horror stories of poor accuracy and excessive fouling that plagued early designs kept me from trying them, not to mention the higher price (I know, I know: bullets are a very small expense relative to the total cost of hunting, but in the early years I HAD TO save money wherever I could, as I'm sure many can relate). But now, with the advent of the TSX and [particularly] the TTSX, I think the time has come to "drink the kool-aid" and take advantage of the mature technology. I will be doing just that in the coming years, Lord willing I have "coming years."

I have shot two deer with the 80TTSX. It works fine, but don't expect some giant hole or anything. It puts about 1/2" in and 1/2" out at best. Whatever you hit in between will be broken.

I think that it is pretty difficult to tell the difference in performance between the 85TSX and 80TTSX in terminal results, as the diameter is simply too small to open up all that much anyway.

That being said, I'd not hesitate to use one on most any deer or black bear.

I've seen some pretty good things out of the factory Federal Fusion 95 grain, if that is cheaper.

I would shoot a lot of Federal Blue box ammo just for the costs and switch over to the Barnes for hunting if you must. No need to be shooting 2 per shot, to punch holes in paper or woodchucks in prep for hunting season. Its a special Christmas when a youngster gets a rifle. A 243 is a very nice gift indeed.

Thanks. You are reading my mind. My son has been shooting a .22LR, but has no experience with a centerfire. Before next hunting season, I would like to have him shooting the .243 comfortably from the bench and various field positions.

This will likely require more than a box or two of ammo, and so I'll be looking for some less expensive factory stuff for training.

My dad and I reloaded when I was a kid, but I never did enough shooting later in life to justify going out and getting all of my own reloading supplies. I guess now I have a good excuse to gear up and/or dust off my dad's stuff and do some relearnin'. I have relatives that would be happy to load all that I need, but I hate to impose. Paying for factory ammo, in quantity, just may be the incentive I need.

Lee kits are not much money .I got one 20 years ago and strill use it . I watch guys with rcbs and hornady layman stuff all great stuff as reloading goes but i'll stick with my lee for 75.00.Just need powder, bullets a tumbler ,primmers

I didnt get to shoot anything with them this year but the 80 gr TTSX Vortx ammo grouped better than any factory load I have ever shot from my 700. The deer being the cowardly lot they are failed to cooperate though...

+1, good for you and your son. Getting back into reloading will help with the cost and add some special quality time for you and your son.

Having just fired Fed 100 Powershok back to back with Federal 85 TSX Premium weekend before last: the 100s do kick a bit more. Great, accurate ammo with either weight. Matter of fact the Fed 85 SGK-BTHP is a light kicker and will kill a deer like anything else.

You didn't say how big/old your boy is, but you need to get him off the bench with that .22 and killing some small game before he goes after deer. Gotta have some stress inoculation before he tries to kill a mammal bigger than he may be.

My experience is that if you don't tell kids or other novices about recoil they tend not to notice it if introduced to it slowly. I just ran across the newspaper outdoor page clipping where my then-12-year-old youngest son shot his 1st deer with an M7 CDL with a 200-grain CL out of a .350 RM. Gotta get it scanned in.

If it's legal in your state, use a .223 with purpose-designed deer bullets: 60 Nosler, 63 SMP, 64 PP, and weight TSX.

Good points, all. My 11 year old son accompanied me on this year's deer rifle season hunt. We were fortunate enough to take a buck on the first day.

Presently, I do not have a .223ish rifle. However, a relative, who also happens to own a .35 Rem. as do I, has loaded me some .358 cast bullets at about 900 fps for my Rem 760. The LOP won't be proper, but I've been told that these loads have felt recoil about equivalent to a .22 Mag.

I think I will have my son shoot these from about 25 yards before the .243 just to get him started with a scoped centerfire.

I'm thinking spring gobbler and small game will be on next year's agenda before any deer hunting.

I'd be very happy w/either load 80 or 85 Barnes on deer and similar sized game.

Likewise, the 95 Ballistic Silvertip load 'Noz 95 Ballistic Tip' in the Winchester factory ammo, is a good option as well.

Many others will kill fine, but the above bullets are my favorites as I have zero doubt they will penetrate from most any angle and reach vitals w/authority to take them out.

No doubt, many 100 cup/core likely will do very well when steered properly.

DakotaDeer,

It isn't hard to see the difference in terminal performance between the TSX and TTSX when the TSX doesn't open up at all. I have seen this a few times with small-caliber TSX's, but never when using TTSX's.

Also, the few TTSX's I've seen recovered have indeed opened up noticeably wider than TSX's of the same approximate size. The same is true of other plastic-tipped monometal bullets, such as the Nosler E-Tip, so it seems to be a characteristic of plastic-tipped monos.

JB - good point, no pun. Do you feel it's a 'impact speed dependent issue' or hardness of metal on THAT specific bullet? Or simply tip design?

I have heard in the past that occasionally a target grade bullet like SMK HP will have it's tip close on impact and fail to open, or well. It would seem Barnes has done enough testing and/or researched 'bullet failures' to makes some conclusions on this, whether or not that was ever made public.

Not questioning failure to expand, just wondering what was the cause do you believe?

Do you feel all factory ammo will or switch to the TTSX to maximize success in the field - in bullet expansion?

The only reservations I have had about the latest Barnes has not been accuracy or fouling, it's simply 'will they expand enough at longish distances' so its nice to hear your pointing out the differences between the TSX and TTSX.

Thanks for the insight.

65BR,

Barnes worked out the design and metallurgy problems of the X--Bullets long ago. I suspect that the cause of some small-caliber TSX's not opening is due to recoil-battering of the tiny hollow-point in the magazine. Partly this is because I have yet to see an over-.30 TSX not expand, and they have MUCH larger hollow-points, which would be hard to batter closed. (Though I have heard of the bigger TSX's not expanding due to low impact velocity.)

The TTSX's not only have the plastic tip (which helps expansion in any kind of bullet) but the hollow-point under the tip is much larger than on the standard TSX's.

So far I am really liking the TTSX's in smaller calibers, both due to the expansion and because they fly noticeably flatter past 250-300 yards.

JB - Thanks for sharing your knowledge. There is no substitute for real-world results. I think a box of 80 grain TTSX's would make a nice stocking stuffer.

JB--thanks for the info on bullet construction and performance. Have you been able to shoot anything yet with the 243 ETip?

My main point is that the small cal monos don't leave much of a hole anyway, so I haven't been able to see much difference between the 80tipped and the 85standard. Both kill well so far as monos go.....As to BC on those two bullets, I've calculated only about a .02 difference in favor of the tipped.....

I'd still like to see a Barnes design that blows the petals off on purpose once inside the animal, similar to the GS Customs (from what I've read). To me, that would give the benefits of both a high expander and a mono. Ross Seyfried once wrote about scribing the jacket on a Partition to force it to shed the front core and then penetrate like a wadcutter--I think that might be doable with a TSX also.

I think that would be a mistake on sub 100g slugs meant to be used on big game.

The whole point of a mono-metal slug is controlled expansion to promote weight retention and sectional density of the slug for penetration. It's hard to "retain" what is not there to begin with- ie weight.

If you start with a 100 gain slug and blow off 1/3 of it, whats left is not that much mass less for solid penetration on for raking shots.

Such slug would be fine with another 25-50 percent more weight but on bullets like the 80 to 85g TTSX slugs, I think they are about perfect as is.

If you want a quick opening slug for lung shots, any of the good Cup and core slugs work just fine, unless deer have recently been issued Kevlar vests..

JB - thanks sir for the info.

DD - I see your logic wanting 'secondary shrapnel' but also wonder when it sheds mass how might that affect total penetration and if that's desired.

No doubt, many variations of how different bullets act and kill. Some 'energy dump' all internally, others 'exit leaving a good blood trail' where desired, etc. etc.

I do suppose if a typical mono kept 100% and missed a good vital pass thru - shrapnel might increase collateral damage and put the odds in favor of a quicker kill.

You may be right that a small cal would not be the place to experiment with this, but as to an 80 grain losing 1/3 of its weight, well we'd be right at 53 grains left over, which from what I've heard seems to penetrate pretty well

If you want to dumb down the terminal performance of a 6mm to to the point where the only part of the slug driving forward weighs 50 grains, why not just hunt with a .223 to begin with?

Four loose petals at 7 grains each would do a lot of damage, inside the deer....while the other 50 could blow on out the far side.

Quick kills on lung shots or bone shots, best of both worlds idea....

My 6 year old son is receiving a Santa Rifle this year in the form of a Winchester Stainless FWT in 243 as well. I just finished loading up rounds for load development using the 80gr TTSXs and H4350.

I will post what this does on paper using an M8 6x42 with a Heavy Duplex.

Our big kids week at camp is the week after Christmas...I'm hoping he gets his first Deer with her that week.

Robert

Sounds fun! The 80TTSX works fine, just like you'd expect with the two I shot this year.

All this 243 talk around here lately is killing me. I guess I am going to but one, hopefully this weekend if I can find what I'd like at the gunshow we are going to.

Dale

The .243's a fine round. In fact, it's almost as good as the .257 Roberts!

Almost


ddj

Almost as good, but a heck of alot easier to find ammo for, seeing as I am not a reloader.

Dale