Someone posted a link to a Varget Temp Sensitivity article here a year or so back... was a fairly technical article and a good read... anyone have that link?

Thanks

Not sure if it was an article, but Denton has done some extensive work on that topic. Perhaps a PM to him would reveal all.

I've seen Denton's excellent article, but that's not the one I had in mind...

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure%20Factors.pdf

I only used one rifle and one caliber for actual testing but had a hunting load for a 308 that was loaded with Varget and only saw 28fps average variation between 94 degrees F cold barrel shooting and 26 degrees F cold barrel shooting.

My old load with Rx 15 produced 73 fps variation and a load we had with W748 produced 124 fps variation all with the same conditions.

Far from a scientific experiment but I've been using Varget since the first year it came out and almost always shoot through a chronograph at the range and have had similar results ever since.

Almost all my rifles shoot nothing but Varget and velocities seem to be very stable through temp changes and with different cartridges.

Velocity is always excellent and accuracy seems to usually be very good.

From 223 Remington to 300SAUM plus in my 375H&H, Varget is my number one choice and I've never had reason to doubt it or change...

$bob$

That's pretty much exactly what I've seen with both powders.

Yep... I will admit that Rx15 produced slightly better velocity and accuracy was slightly better in moderate temperatures though. I had used Rx15 for quite a few years and must say it's a hell of a powder...

$bob$

Yeah, it typically igves higher velocities during summer range work and in some rifles is more accurate. BUT, if accuaracy is equal with Varget, I'll take the more consistent Varget over RL15.

73 FPS variation from RL15 over a 50 degree temperature swing? Did I read that right?

That's about exactly what I've seen...

Yup

$bob$

I'll save you the drama Brad...

Stick with 165 Partitions and Varget and you'll not likely see any shift in impacts between now and middle summer. I've chronographed that load from -18 (as cold as the Chrony display will work) up to mid 90's It's in the 2710's in the dead of winter, and in the 2730's in the summer

Also, the difference in speed between 45.5 and 46.0 grains ain't worth the extra wear and tear on your brass... Bumping up that last half grain only netted me 20 FPS in the Montucky, worse accuracy, and bigger spreads. 45.3-45.4 is where it noded up in my Montucky, at a year 'round avg of 2720 FPS, and pretty much groups under 3/4" in any conditions that aren't completely insane...

I wouldn't sweat it. Most stable powder I"ve used. WIsh they all were.... very low variations from 20s to 100s... and I did a group test a few times where in the low 100s in the shade we shot a 10 shot group, then shot another each time leaving the next round in the chamber 30 seconds longer. Group was almost identical, and impact location was identical.

If this is your question, you have too much time to spend on the internet and not enough time to shoot

So, what does a 73 fps variation equate to in differences in point of impact at various distances?

Dan, my last 308 (22") went 2,720 with 45.0 gr's Varget.

My current 308 (22") requires 46.0 gr's Varget (same lot as above) to get 2,720.

I've not shot enough Varget vs. RL15 to be adamant about it in this rifle, but so far the accuracy edge seems to go to RL15.

Hey, thanks for the input!

You obviously don't hunt at -30F and do your load development in the summer in the 90's.

But I'm not a fat old man that sits on the internet with nothing better to do than snipe at people they've never met and know nothing about, and on topics out of their depth...

Cake eater...

Dober

Well yeah!

Did you ever try TAC? I have 130's TTSX bullets flying nice with 47 grains of TAC in my Montana, deer are the intended target.

I load all my hunting ammo at about 60-65 degree's,the max I will see here where I hunt.I have tested RL-7/RL-10X/Varget/H-4198/H-322/H-110 and Benchmark at roughly 65 degree's and at around 25-30 degree's and can't see any appreciable difference in any of them..Yes,they all loose velocity but toss a coin which is worst that would make any difference in point of aim.

Extremes are not all that extreme.

Man..A guy has to do all this stuff himself or you will never know how it works..Gotta see it with your own eyes and theres no one to blame but yourself!!!!

Jayco

My experience has taught me that I see more diffs tween different lots than I generally do with differing temps and this goes for most of the powders I've done b4 and after with.

More than once I've see where lot to lot diff was 100 fps. (ouch)

Dober

Varget + 308 = good

I've long said that if a 308 won't shoot 47 Varg with a 168 then it's either worn out or just plain stupido..

Dober

Dober, you run 47 gr's Varget and 168's?

pretty sure that's what it was..hmm, maybe I should check?

Dober

Go get yer data

Only ask cause I've found my current 308 can handle up to 47 gr's...

My bad---short term cranial anal moment

It's 46 of Varg with the 165/168's

Dober

Side note, I fondled and slobbered on three tree oh eights today..

Won't be long

Dober

46.0 is the manual load...

47 can be a little warm with some 165/168's, but I haven't seen all that much variation in different lots of Varget. Certainly not like I've seen in many other powders.

How many queue's for 7-08 vs 308 at the Billings Cabela's?

I agree John, 47.0 isn't for every barrel or every 165...

I've seen the 46 load shoot so well that 4 me one more grain (what maybe 33 fps? isn't worth it to me. Now there was a day, that I'd of tried to stuff a lot more than that in it. But, that was back in my days of Presidency of the Red Liners club..grin

I saw 8 SKU's for the 7/08 and 44 for the 308--wowsa

Dober

Mark, depends on the barrel, no?

I wouldn't push to get another 30 fps with any round... but if accuracy increases and pressures are still fine?

Absolutely it depends on the barrel. And for sure if accuracy is better and pressures still fine then powder river let er buck.

Dober

I have a 250 Savage that really likes Varget, but not with book loads.

Those darn .250 book loads!

Only say that Dober as my last 308 used a grain less than book for max loads and my current uses a full book load (or more) to be where the other was! They're all individuals... but velocity = pressure IMO there's no free lunch.

Ha!

250 Savage "Book Loads" are two things that don't belong in the same sentence!

At least Hodgdon has the decency to give CUP/PSI for those weak loads!

Brad, that's exactly what more than one ballistic lab-tech has told me. In fact, during my last visit to a pressure lab, the tech said, "A chronograph is the home handloader's best friend!"

In this day and age I find it incomprehensible not owning a $100 chronograph if you're a handloader!

Don't worry, I'm not doing anything crazy. I'm working from Hodgdon's 6mm-250 & 250 Savage data, "The Rules", feel developed over the last 30 years or so, and using my new Oehler 35P.

Doing the figuring told me I should get approx. 3150 with a 90 gr. Sierra at 48000 CUP. That's almost exactly the speed my chrono registered, and the primers don't even look as flat as full on 308 book loads in my rifles.

I'm laying the groundwork for a possible switch to the 80 gr. TTSX.

Edit: Rem. 700 Classic

mathman,

Oh, I'm not worried about you--or me. I regularly exceed .250 book loads.

The latest version of Accurate 2495 is also a real good one in the .250. It's now being made specifically for Western Powders and is real good stuff. In a recent test of a Ruger 77 .250 it was more accurate than a half-dozen other powders in that burning range, including Varget and RL-15. Not by much, but it beat 'em.

Excellent info about the 2495. The last time I saw some at a gun show it was labeled Made in Canada. Is that the new source country, and is it a short kernel powder?

It is a short-kernel powder, but I'll have to check the canister of where it's made.

Western is selling enough powder now that they're able to get powder makers to work with them. There are some interesting things happening in powder manufacturing everywhere these days.

Rick Bin once posted that he stopped at book max. charge or max. listed velocity which ever came first.

I thought that was well said, and I bought a chronograph shortly after that.

The thing is, that chronograph really opened my eyes to the "magical" 7Rem Mag. I came to realize I had been shooting a FAT 280 all along.