I'll preface this by saying that it is probably not possible to know less about Kimber rifles than I do.
But, I have been looking around at the possibilities of a lighter rifle for deer an elk hunting. have read lots of posts here concerning the accuracy of Kimber rifles. Some reports are talking about 3- 4 inch groups at 100 yards, and some attribute this to poor technique. others to shortcomings in the rifle.
My question is, if technique IS the problem, how precise or how accurate is that rifle going to be under field conditions? One day, I might be shooting over my backpack, the next shooting from a sit and another time resting the forearm on a branch while hanging onto a tree with the other hand.
Thanks for any input.

Fred

I made my longest shot ever on a whitetail with my Montana 325 WSM. It wasn't that far only 346yds but I had no worries about the rifle being up to the shot. It was prone off a bipod.

Concentrate on trigger control and have a smooth grip on the forend and you should be fine off the bench or in the feild.\

I'm sure a bunch of others here can show you pics of piles of critters they've used their Kimbers on.....................dj

It's not all poor technique. There's a lot of rifle to rifle variation.

I have a friend who bought a .308 Montana for his wife. He's a good shooter. It beat him so he called in the cavalry, a mutual friend who is fanatical about accuracy and a very good high power shooter, so he ought to be able to make a .308 sing. The best the two of them could get out of it on a repeatable basis was about 6 MOA.

On the other hand, my .308 Montana shoots pretty decent, nothing to brag about but certainly does what I bought it for. My last 300 yard group went about 3.5 inches. Good enough.

Tom

My 84M classic 308 shoots very well with 150 grain TSXs and Varget - within 1 MOA. Granted, it is the third 84M I tried, but the other two were 7-08s, and from what I read, a lot of the Kimber accuracy issues are with that caliber (7-08). I would not hesitate to get another 308 if needed, and I'm thinking about trying an 84L in 30-06.

I have a .270 WSM that is picky about the loads that it will shoot, but it shoots the ones that it likes very well. It does this off the bench, over a day pack or with shooting sticks. I don't shoot off hand much anymore, as my ability to do so has deteriorated with age and I can't cite any relevant experience on that topic.

I think that the talk about technique is a bunch of BS. If I have to hold the rifle a certain way to get it to shoot then it will either head down the road or get a new tube.

I currently have 3 kimbers and all shoot well from the bench and field positions.

While the sample is small, I know of 4 different Kimbers that were no more than tent stakes.

I know they are not even in the same class as a Kimber, but I would seriously look at a Marlin XL-7 in 30-06. For $350 you get an adjustable trigger, pillar bedding, thick soft recoil pad, floating bolt head, and a nickle plated safety. At 6.5pounds with the 22" barrel it is a lightweight gun and will shoot just as well as guns cost 2-3x the price.

If you can't bear the thought of a $350 30-06 from Marlin, I'd look into the Savage lightweight hunter in 6.5x284. At 5.5pounds with a walnut stock it is a thing to behold. And it cost at least $200 less than a 84L or Montana.

I bought a Kimber Montana in 300 WSM last year. It has never been a bad shooter, but I took it to a local gunsmith and had him adjust the trigger to approx 3#. He also stippled the stock for added grip.

My last 5 shot group, off the bench, at 100 yards was right around an inch. I was using 180 gr TTSX reloads that I had worked up.

I will take that any day from a hunting rifle.

donsm70

Royce,
No one is going to be able to predict the accuracy of a
Kimber rifle. Certainly not any more than buying a Ruger, Winnie, Remmy, Browning, etc.. The fact is that each rifle is an entity unto itself. Each purchase is a gamble with some more so than others. Pick the features and price range and go with it.

I have had quite a few Kimbers and can say they were overwhelmingly a pleasure to shoot. I still rely on them over all the others.

My Montana in 308 shoots consistent one-inch groups, but it was a royal PITA to get it there -- and despite what some would declare to be gospel, it's not all about technique with these rifles. There are often reasons why phrases like "playing Kimber Roulette" became cliches. As with any other purchase, you pay your money and take your chances.

bigwhoop
If you read my post, I don't think I asked anyone to predict the accuracy of a Kimber rifle. The crux of my question was "are Kimbers finicky to shoot under field conditions".
If you sight in a Kimber from the bipod, and then shoot at a game animal with a bipod, you are pretty much replicating range conditions.
The reason the question was raised in my Kimber ignorant mind was that I often see people telling other people that the reason their Kimbers don't shoot is because is because they are more demanding of a flawless bench technique. It would seem to me that if they are that susceptible to changes in bench technique, that they would be even more susceptible to field conditions where a person might be shooting from the sit one time, uphill over a rock the next and downhill over a down jacket the next day.
The measure of a hunting rifle to me is not whether or not it can shoot pinhole groups under ideal conditions, but whether or not it can put bullets within 3/4 of a minute of angle from the point of aim at 20 below zero and 60 degrees above zero under field conditions. (That is another way of saying that it will shoot 1 1/2 minute of angle under field conditions).

Fred

I have a Montana in 7/08. I have trouble shooting tight groups off the bench. I don't have good technique, or bags, or even a good bench. It has been easy to hit with in the field however. Elk at 200-250 yards, deer at 300, a coyote at 300, even a squirrel at 75. The only way to truly find out how the rifle works for you is to try it.

My son has a Montana in .243. Off a bipod, it will put 3 Barnes TSX bullets in 5/8" at 100 yards. He's used it on two mule deer bucks, one at 350, and another at 250. In my experience, they are nice little rifles.

Dude, I gotta believe that 243 Montana is one sweet rig!

So many rifles, so little money...

Question: For those of you that have owned Kimbers that would not shoot to your satisfaction,what did you do, send it back to Kimber, sell it or trade it. If you sent it back to Kimber, did they solve the problem or return it with the explanation that it shot within the shooting industry specs. Which is about 3moa if my memory is correct. I am thinking about a Kimber so I certainly would like to know how the problem of a poor shooter was solved. Thanks

My experience was limited to just one Montana in 308, and the answer was a lot of experimentation with ammo. It didn't like much of anything until I tried some 165-grain Fusions. That turned out to be a marriage made in heaven, so I quit while I was ahead. That's all I ever feed it now.

Haven't had a Kimber that didn't shoot. Some took a little effort to find a load it liked, but I didn't have to give up on any, unlike two Remingtons I've had.

My Kimber Montana 300WSM is hard to shoot from the bench. It likes to be held a certain way, and the recoil can be a little more than I like. In the field, I don't notice the recoil at all, even from the prone with a bipod. It shoots slightly less than 3/4" 3 shots groups with Federal 150 Fusions. I expect I will be able to equal or beat that with handloads.

Any lightweight gun may be particular as to how it likes to be held on the bench, to shoot the best. I believe JB suggested that he has taken to putting something soft on top of the sandbag under the rifle and that helps alot. I am going to try that.

It makes sense. If you shoot in the field, with your rifle rested against a post, your shot is often thrown. If you keep a hat, or your hand etc between the post (rest) something soft, the shot flies true.

Buy a Kimber, I think you will like it.

I've had 5 centerfires, 2 84's and 3 8400 wsm's. All 5 shot and shoot weel under an inch. The 308 took the most load work but also now shoot the best. If I shoot a 1/2 in group with it it's because I did something wrong. With the load it likes it is a 1 hole 3 shot rifle. It likes harnady 150 flat base interlocks and varget at 2900fps. It and a 300wsm are montanas. the 270wsm and the 257R and selects. I sold a wood 300 to fund the 300 montana. Thinking about an 84l.

Can you give a bit more information on the load you are using? How many grains of Varget? What brand of case? Primer?

Thanks.

Fred,

Apparently few people are going to respond to your original question. It isn't due to your lack of writing skill. Instead I'd guess it's because the worth of any hunting rifle anymore is nowadays based on benchrest groups.

If you want to try a light Kimber from various positions and rests, I'd be glad to loan you one.

Fred, my 7lb 257 Roberts shoots great from any position. Easy to shoot(thicker tube than a .308 84) and is very accurate(bench, bipod, shed window, truck mirror, hood etc).
A 7lb 300WSM will take a little more attention...(grin)

Made my longest shot ever on a game animal this past September with my Kimber Montana .300 WSM. Shot was 486 yards on a Utah buck antelope. Ranged him with my Geovids, checked the drop chart, doped the Leupold, got a good solid rest, and sent 165gr Barnes TSX on it's way. One shot and he never took a step.

As far as Montana's go, I have one bad one (7mm-08) out of three, but my .223 and .300 WSM shoot great. I want like crazy to find/own a good shooting 7mm-08 Montana, but am still a little gun shy. Not sure why, but Kimber had major problems with .284's. When I sent mine back and talked to them on the phone they said anything 7mm was on hold indefinitely. Don't know if that's changed or not.

My Kimber, 300 wsm was amazing in Africa. It wasnt an amazing shooter on paper, at about .8-1", but it was on FIRE on animals. 10 animals in 12 shots and I only had to shoot one animal more than once and that was my fault.
Notice the one piece of brass:
My best shot of the trip. 374 yards, with out turrets

Royce,

While my .325 Montana does it's best work when benched "just so", I have not seen ANY finicky stuff when shooting from field positions or a bipod or pack. To the contrary actually.

[quote=Royce]The crux of my question was "are Kimbers finicky to shoot under field conditions"./quote]

It's a good question and the answer in my limited experience is NO. I only own two Kimbers, both Montanas - one in 7mm/08 and one in 300 WSM. I only recently acquired the 300 WSM and did so on the basis of my complete satisfaction with the 7mm/08. I have not yet shot the 300 WSM.

The 7mm/08 is not finicky to shoot from the bench and has shot very well under all field conditions I've had it in (and the field conditions have varied from +70F to -5F, including changes in elevation from sea level to 11,000 ft.) It has performed flawlessly and was an absolute joy to carry up and down mountains.

It's been so nice to carry and shoot that I've preferred it on my last two hunts for elk over a custom Mod 70 280AI that is a great handling rifle, an absolute tack driver, and is proven to out to 425 yds on elk in the past. In the most recent two elk hunts I've taken both rifles with me (because I'm driving from Anchorage to Idaho/Montana to hunt and want to have a back-up along in case something happens to one rifle/scope so I don't find myself 2500 miles from home with all my gear packed into camp and suddenly SOL and unable to hunt.) But when the time has come to saddle up or walk out of camp I take the Kimber 7mm/08. It kills just as well as the 280AI.

Fred,

When I shoot my hunting rifles from the bench I try to simulate how I would use the rifle in the field. I 'hand hold' the rifle at the bench. My forward hand holds the stock and I rest that wrist on the bag. My trigger hand might touch the rear bag.

I aim by calling my shots. Remember where the first shot went off and aim the second at that spot. Two shots are enough for that and hunting too!

Keep a record of what happened as the first shot impact is most important.

My four Kimber Montanas do very well in the field. They are just as good as any of my other rifles that I have spent a lifetime sorting through. I like these Kimbers as they are light, SS.Syn, and function so well.

I use other rifles as well when the distance and weather favor them.

To add here is a target shot at 100 y. with the bipod on and off from a 7mm WSM Montana.

Kimber Montana 8400,270 Winchester. The photo is my 13 year old son and his first antelope shot at 200 yards off shooting sticks. The antelope was quartering towards us and he shot it in the shoulder. The exit hole came out the off side middle. This rifle shoots MOA (minute of antelope)from field positions by a child.





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Fred,
I've got one of the "original" Kimber 84M Classics in 7mm08 and it shoots just fine off the bench and even better in the field. It doesn't feed so well but once I get a round in the chamber we're good to go.
This rifle was actually out of my possession for quite awhile and I "tested" a number of other 7mm08's (Rem. 7's, & 700 BDL & Mtn , Ruger 77 MkII LW, Tikka WT Hunter, etc.). The Kimber was the most accurate of the bunch.
I think a lot of people have trouble shooting light rifles "off the bench" regardless of manufacturer.
My field accuracy w/ the Kimber has been excellent; because the rifle fits me & balances well in my hands (the MOST important criteria in my opinion). My best example would be Antelope hunting this last season. My wife wounded a doe and I shot to finish it (which I did). We paced it off and the doe was well over 200 yds away when I shot.......offhand. I'm not that good, but because the rifle fit and was light enough to balance well, and the trigger is a crisp 2 3/4 lbs., .....well you get the idea.
Hope this answers your original question.

Great picture! Love to see the younger generation getting it done and having a good time!

That right there is why the man is one of the best in the business. Solid grasp of the obvious....


Now for me... The Kimber is in a league of its own when it comes to actually shooting one. Things like a slender fore end and open grip, and a big fat trigger shoe that makes you use your fingertip (not the 1st distal joint) with your thumb on the top of the grip... You could never shoot a benchrest rifle from prone with a sling as well as you could an 84... You just can't make a rifle FEEL right.

Oh, I shot an Antelope buck in '09 at just over 450, prone with a sling, with my 84 Montana, a fixed 4 Loopy, AND I had a witness

My 2010 season (only animal not shown was cow elk taken at 180 yards) all with Kimber MT/308 Win:

401 yards:



304 yards:



200 yards:

Well, it appears the Kimbers do work well in the field.

Fred

No.....none of this stuf above is at all possible.....I refuse to beleive any of it...

To me that's a question about the shooter, not the rifle, and I can't tell you whether any particular person will do well or not regardless of how mechanically accurate the rifle is.

With my .308 Montana, if you take a pretty darn firm hold on it, then it doesn't matter so much what rest you have ... day pack, bench, out the truck window, etc. But if you hold it loose, as light as it is, even though that's sort of intuitive, it won't shoot so well.

Based on what I observe with my gun, I'm fairly sure that during recoil if the stock is held firmly, the stock flexes and the barrel basically pries itself away from the stock maintaining it's "free float", but if laid loose, the stock and barrel occasionally make contact causing some fliers. My intent is to open up the barrel channel just a hair. I'm reasonably confident that's going to fix the "problem." That waits for warmer weather ... early April before spring bear season is good enough.

Tom

Tom, if you mess up your Montana I might just have to drive down there and MAKE you buy a 30-06. I'm just sayin'. Do NOT MESS UP YOUR MONTANA!

Nice set of pics Brad!

I did extensive testing this past Fall as well. The little rifle passed no prob even though I missed a yote 4 times, it was running pretty fast towards the last shot though....(grin)

I really like the Kimber rifles.I like how they handle and feel.I guess I have just been unlucky with the ones I had.My guess is they will shoot just fine from field positions which after all is all that counts.

Fred,
I guess we can type and show you pics all day. The best test is for you to GET one and try it for yourself. I'd take Mule Deer up on his generosity if it is at all practical. Keep us posted.

Ha! That's reminds me of me...

I have a Kimber in 270wsm. After trying many factory and handloads (over a years work), it would not shoot any better than 3 moa. With a new barrel and a trued action it now shoots well with ANYTHING I feed it. It is now my favorite rifle. The 270 wsm Kimbers have a bad reputation.

Not all "270 WSM's have a bad reputation"!

I have had a Kimber Montana chambered for the 270 WSM for quite a while. For the most part it has shot well enough. I did shoot a big deer with it and therefore it has some sentimental value as well to me.

Of late the case bodies from my handloads have had soot on them. I changed the primer and powder and the results are even better now.

I got the new RL 17 cause it says its a short mag. powder. With a 130 Sierra, 215's and 60 grs it put 2 shots into 3" at 100y. with a vertical dispersion. No soot.

Sixty two grains made a 1/2" group. The primer and pressure signs looked normal.

Sixty three grains 1".

Sixty four grains went in one hole at 110y.

With WLRM's and 4350 it made 1" groups the same 130 Sierra.

Its the one on the left.

My kimbers 4 shoot very well and do it when ever I'm able.

True that not all the 270 wsm Kimbers shoot bad. but from gunsmiths and others it seems that it is the caliber of trouble.

One 'caliber' is similar to another. The cartridge is just another. It should shoot the same as others and the law of averages says that it does.

I have fired my Montana 338 Fed three times this year, and three animals are no longer with us. I don't think that there is any difference in shooting technique with a light rifle as opposed to a heavy rifle. A shooter must realize that as the rifle becomes lighter, his mistakes become more detrimental.

Ok, let me put it this way...maybe Kimber has spotty quality of their .277 barrels or... problems with the chamber reamer in 270wsm.

Quality components + Quality assembly ='s Good Accuracy.

One without the other results in dissapointment.

There are no shortcuts and no magic.

If a rifle does not shoot the problem is with one or the other,or both.There is nothing that keeps a 270WSM from shooting well other than the above factors.

I bought a Kimber Montana 270 WSM last month and it will shoot .5" groups with Winchester 130 gr. ammo all day. I haven't tried anything else but plan to try 140 accubonds before next deer season. I have lots of rifles and this rifle just feels right to me. I'm very happy with the Montana 270 WSM!

Hey Jeff, I could say the same thing about what you're planning to do with your .325. If you screw that up, I'm gonna come up there and make you buy a .270.

Tom

Maybe Kimber had a run with a few bad examples but as a generalized statement that's still not true.

I have 2 Kimber 270 WSM's. One is a drill. 3 shot 3/4" groups at 200yds aren't uncommon and bugholes are the norm at 100yds when I hold it right. The other is a 3/4 MOA or sometimes better rifle after I took out a slight bind in the floorplate.

Maybe later on Kimber had a few that weren't quite as good but I'd suspect a gunsmith that wanted to rebarrel a rifle as soon as I would bad .277 cal barrels from Kimber.............................DJ

The 7mm08 classic that I own will shoot 1" all day long from bench or field with Winchester or my handloads. Don't worry you will be happy if you don't listen to the haters.

Spoken like a man that shoots "stuff". I like it.

I like your "Coyote Blind". ...........................DJ