Does anyone have any info on the 35 apex magnum?

Hi everyone I am new here but thought this might be a good place to start looking for some more info on my 35 Apex Magnum. What I know about the rifle, my grandfather had it built in the mid to late '50's by either John Buhmiller or Lee Brown in the Flathead Valley which is in NW Montana. Grandpa got the dies from the gunsmith which were custom made then he got some custom made from RCBS (I have inquired about this rifle and they tell me they have no record of the calibre) which states 35 Apex Magnum RCBS 1967 stamped on the head of it. I have an Apex rifle company or rifle barrel flyer that came with the gun but has no reference to the 35 Apex magnum. I have had a gunsmith look at it and we measured it and it is just a hair longer than a .358 Norma Magnum with less taper (if i remember right) and we calculated that it had about 6% more case capacity than a .358 Norma. My granfather had it loaded hot (too hot I found out) and that rifle was chronagraphed pushing a 250g round nose at 2900fps out of a 19.5 inch barrel using (my grandpa's load they worked up years and years ago) 67g of IMR4895. I have since changed the load due to expanded primer pockets, flattened primers,extractor marks on the brass head. Anyway i have to make brass out of 300 Winchester magnum and its a lengthy process but i would like any information regarding this rifle/calibre. Any help would be much appreciated.

P.S. I have looked thru numerous wildcat books such as Ken Howell's, P.O. Ackley and many more and have found nothing on this rifle.

With these old hoary wildcats, it sometimes pays to contact reamer makers and ask what they have that may fit the bill on records. When I enquired about the '350G&H Magnum', Dave Manson send me 3 reamer spec drawings of what they had listed as '350G&H Magnum'.

One is a pure neck down of the 375H&H case. Whilst another is an improved shape with case length of 2.8", a third has a length of closer to 2.850".

Hard to say what was being done back then. There is references in the Speer Manual (#4 I think) to shortened 35 magnums for standard length actions like the 35 Ackley Magnum and 35 Mashburn Magnum. The Apex may be a derivative of these?
Cheers...
Con

Thanks for the info, i never thought of contacting reamer makers about wildcat cartridges. On another note it may be a derivitive of one of those magnums you listed. Mine is a standard length K98. Again thanks for the help.

Found this info on the .300 Apex:

"A 300 Apex is a short belted Magnum very much like the #2 Short Ackley Magnum or the 308 Norma Mag. I usually size 338 brass in my dies and then fireform and trim them to 2.5 inches. I use 150 Nosler Partitions at 3200 FPS. It is my go to bolt action rifle!"

Sisk rifles also lists both a .300 Apex and .300 Apex Mag in their chamber reamers available, so you now have a challenge I guess figuring out which one you have.

RCBS lists 300 Apex Super Magnum, and 300 Apex Magnum in their Load List of Cartridges RCBS Cartridge list to confuse things further.

And this:

"The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions" by John J. Donnelly has some information on the Apex. It is essentually a .300 Win. Mag. with the shoulder set back .104" creating a longer neck. The case length is listed as 2.615" while the Win. Mag. is 2.620". You could probably modify a .300 Win. Mag. sizer to work by shortening it to size up to the belt. The book suggests you make the cases from .300 H&H brass then trim & fire form. I think Win. Mag. brass would collapse if you tried to push that sharp shoulder back. You could also use a .308 Norma Mag. sizer if you had one--juat back it off .025". Either a .300 Win. Mag. or .308 Norma seater would work fine. .30/.338 dies would work, too, if you backed the sizer off. To answer your question: the advantage the Apex had over the H&H was that you could put it in a standard length action like the Mausers and Springfields that were so cheap back in the day. Also, since nobody could test anything, you could claim any velocity you wanted and (at least in your mind) have a rifle faster than your friends. The above book lists the case capacity in grs. of WATER as follows: .30/.338=84.41: .308 Norma=85.78: .300 Apex=86.93: H&H=88.82: .300 Win. Mag.=90.36."

And this(They list the 35 Apex Magnum):

http://www.loadammo.com/product/cartridgelist.htm

So Charlie Sisk,RCBS,or (www.loadammo.com) may be of some help.

I appreciate the help but i have also found info on the 300 apex magnum, I have a 35 apex magnum. 338 is too short to make my brass as is 358 norma. 300 winchester is long enough (i have to trim when i am done making brass) after i run it thru a 338 sizer and then step up to the 35 apex dies. then i anneal, and fire form the brass with a light load with magnum pistol primer with media and a wax plug to hold it together. thanks.

These guys list the 35 Apex Magnum and offer free tech support:

www.loadammo.com

http://www.loadammo.com/product/cartridgelist.htm

Thanks for the link EZEARL, it is much appreciated. I have been looking for an actual cartridge dimensions pic/drawing to compare the "cast plug" my gunsmith took of my chamber and got measurements from.

FWIW (likely not very much)

The 1954-1958 issues of Gun Digest show an "Apex Rifle Company located in Sun Valley, California. (Just up the street from Burbank.) The last given address was 7670 San Fernando, Sun Valley, 3, Calif.

JM & KR Enterprises used to be at that address, but apparently they are out of business.

Richard's Microfit Gunstocks is just up the way at 8331 San Fernando in Sun Valley.

A post about 2 years old on another firearms forum indicates that the company was founded by Sam May, and moved to Flagstaff AZ in 1976, with the current owner being Steve Webb.
A place to start asking about ctg drawings.

Good luck.
--Bob

Great info, the address of the Apex Rifle Co. rings a bell, as for it being out of business and resold or named in AZ were some great leads for me to pursue.

Thanks,

HeavyGunner

HeavyGunner Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders by Parker O Ackley
states the following 35 Apex Magnum is the same case as the 300 Apex necked up to 35 calibre. He states one should see loading data for 35 Ackley Magnum and Standard Twist is 14" Loadings for
200gr., 250, 275 and 300 are given if needed be happy to copy for you. Cheers NC P.S. me if needed

Dude COOL RIFLE!

You gonna post pics?

Great! that is the break i have been looking for! I cant thank everyone enough for their help on this quandry of mine. Which P.O. Ackley book is this in? I had my father look thru his and he said he didnt see it but it could have been overlooked or in a different Ackley book. Again thanks very much.

I will try and post a picture tonight or this weekend. On another note how do i put a picture on my posting? I tried to put a picture on my avatar and it wouldnt let me. Can you simply save it to my desk top and drag and drop it?

HeavyGunner E-mail sent let me know if received ok.
Cheers NC

Got the email, thanks NC.

HeavyGunner. Pic.'s are in order. Please let me know how things turn out and what loading you finally settle on!! Cheers NC

Thanks, I am looking forward to comparing the "new" loads you sent me with the loads i have used and the load i have tried. I will keep you informed of what worked and probably some chronograph data that we collect.

Heavygunner,

Welcome to the Campfire!

One thing you should be aware of is that Ackley's loading data (which is now 50 years old) was often, um, optimistic, and rarely pressure-tested.

If your .35 Apex is indeed based on the .300 Winchester with the shoulder pushed back a little, as with the .300 Apex, then .358 Norma Magnum data would provide a very good start, especially with today's powders.

Note indeed taken on 50-60yr old loading data, but yes my rifle is based on the 300 win mag. I had a gunsmith take a "cast" of my chamber and thats where we started when it came to making some brass. I have been cautiously using the 358 Norma data as a place to start and so far it has given me a good place to start. I am going to try a load using a 225 accubond with 4350 (cant remember offhand what the charge was) and see if we can make this rifle shoot. As I stated earlier in this thread, I was using 67g of 4895 topped with a 250g rn and unbeknownst to me I had lots of overpressure signs which a trusted gunsmith friend of mine quickly pointed out. thanks for the info you posted.

Anybody have any pointers on posting pics? I am somewhat computer literate but am having no luck.

Look here. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/696239/1/How_to_post_your_photos

Nothing too fancy here, just a '98 with a 19.5 inch barrel and a pretty little piece of wood topped with a 4x Leoupold.

Thanks like2shoot, very helpful.

HeavyGunner Love the wood on that rifle very neat in deed.
Let use know what loads you finally settle on. Cheers NC

Beautiful wood and that rear sight is great!

I think those "express sights" as my grandfather called them are pretty cool also. thanks for the comments.

Beautiful wood, classy express sights, great choice in glass, classic action, VERY COOL cartridge in a rifle carried by your grandfather.

What more could one ask for? VERY nice.

Thanks to everyone for all of the compliments. It has been fun sharing this little piece of history with you all.