I would like to know f the cartridge is proving popular or not - anyone here have expereince with it???

Whats a .338 federal....?

I had to sell one in a Ruger Hawkeye and I regret it. It sure shot great and I would like to have it back.

My Kimber shoots the 338 Fed great! Several one shot kills on elk, plus a couple of deer. Who cares if it is popular or not, I like it. I'm not going to go to Wal-Mart to buy ammo for it anyway.

Scratches my itch. Second one on the way soon.

Had a .338 Fed built on a Ruger 77 RSI in about '06 or so. I've shot a few deer with it, and carried it a lot in general, I just plain like it. Got a good price on a synthetic/stainless 77 Hawkeye .338 Fed; bought it for bad weather. Have shot a whitetail buck and a muledeer buck with it, and it seems to work really well too. Think I'll keep them both for the long haul -- they seem to have the parts and pieces.





Shot with two different versions of .338 Fed chambers, and they both seem to work out nicely. I eat a quite a lot of venison these days taken with these rifles, and it is pretty good...

Dennis

Hoping to blood my "faux" Kimber Montana .338 Federal on an Idaho black bear next month. Waiting for it to get done having a new coat of make-up applied and then it'll be time to slap Talley's and a Leupold VX1 3-9x40mm with LRD on it and hit the range.

My Tikka T3 Lite in .338 Federal shoots very well. I haven't worked up a load for it yet, but it will shoot 200 grain Fusions into an inch or less at 100 meters.
I haven't drawn blood with it yet but I have confidence that it will get the job done when the opportunity presents itself.

I just purchased a new DPMS LR338L (338 Federal)39" long and 7.9 lbs. Just put LaRue LT112 one piece quick release scope mount on it and will be ordering a Bushnell 6500 Elite 4.5x30 50mm scope in a couple weeks.purchased 140 rnds of american eagle 185 gr soft points. Soon I will be shooting it. Can't wait

I'm looking to get a .338 Federal, as well. It would seem to be a great combination of knockdown power and minimal recoil.

I think it would be tough to beat for bigger critters like elk and moose and bear inside of 400 yards, and it should flatten deer with little meat damage.

Lots of good bullets ro play with from 160 - 210gr at 2500 - 3000 fps. Sounds great to me.

Think of it as modern and improved 7x57

Dennis,

That is a sweet setup you have there! Very nice and definitely a keeper. One of those paired with No.1 RSI in 7x57 would be delicious, indeed!

I just bought a Sako 85 in 338 Federal. Can't wait to get it to the range and better yet try it out this deer season. My only complaint is the lack of loadings currently offered. Not that the choices currently aren't any good because they are. Just would like to see more choices. Where I hunt, the longest shot is about a 100 yards which will make this round a killer for sure. From what I read, the lighter bullets are getting the best accuracy.

Seattlesetters- if your looking for one, Euro Optics is selling the 85 Hunter like mine for $850. You will have a hard time finding a Sako brand new for that price.

Ingwe,
Think of it as a .308 with big girl panties.

DPMS offers it in their AR 10. That would be a good choice if you ever get pinned down by a herd of bears.
whelennut

In my rifle the 185 TTSX has consistently been the most accurate. TAC or 8208 XBR have been very accurate (no chrono on the 8208 yet) book loads indicate they should be similar. Have found loads for 210 Scirocco II and 210 Partition that are quite good as well (2000MR and Leverevolution). If I knew I were keeping the ranges down the 210 Partition would be hard to beat.

I have a Sako 85 in .338 Fed. I bought it mainly because it was something different that I didn't already have, however I'm glad I did. Mine shoots MOA with several loads using 210 TSX's and 200 Accubonds and RL15. I haven't tried any other bullets or powders yet, because I've had more than satisfactory results from those within the range limitations I plan to use this rifle for. I've only used it on feral hogs (and a couple coyotes while hog hunting) so far, but it anchors big boars with authority. Recoil is fairly mild.

My huntin buddy has a montana in.338 Fed. I have shot it and recoil is not noticeable to me. It's accurate, and hammers the deer. Hunting in the woods of NH, it makes a lot of sense.

I've got a stainless Hawkeye topped with a 1.5-6 Burris Euro diamond and it consistantly puts 3 Woodleigh 200gr PP's into 1" or a bit less at 100yds. 200gr hotcors over the same powder (AR2206H, H4895) shoot to a different poi but the groups are the same size.
I haven't shot anything that bleeds with it yet, but I hope to change that situation in the next couple of weeks.

In regards to your original question, I don�t know how to define popular for relatively recently introduced cartridges. Obviously there are sales as a measure, but I�m not certain any cartridge brought to the market today is popular by the standard of the old stand-bys such as the 30-06 or 270win. I don�t think the 30-06 or 270win would necessarily be �popular� in terms of sales if they were brought to market right now. Tradition counts for a lot in rifle sales. Just a situation where there are multiple options to meet any hunting or shooting situation you can imagine. On the Fed�s side, is the fact that it has plenty to deal with everything from deer to hogs, black bear and elk which represents the vast majority of hunting in N.A. In terms of velocity and energy it is very close to the 30-06. There is an excellent selection of bullets from the 160 TTSX through the 225 Accubond if you�re feeling adventurous (others include: 180 BT, 180/200 Accubonds, 200 E-Tip, 200 Bal. Silvertip, 185/210 TTSX, 200 Hornady Interlock, 185 GMX, 200 SST, 200 Hot Cor, 210 Partition, 210 Scirocco II, 215 Gameking, etc, etc). Brass is a non-issue, and never will be given its 308 heritage. Federal is now producing factory brass as well. Being Federal�s first rifle cartridge I suspect getting factory ammo will never be an issue, unlike the 338-06, or potentially the 338 RCM. There is not a huge selection of factory ammo, but what is available is quite good and covers about everything with 180s through 210 Partitions. I haven�t heard any bad reports of the 200gn Fusion ammo. It�s very easy to load for, the short size is good for short action rifles and the smaller diameter allows for more in the mag than the short/fats. On the bad side; 338 bullets don�t go through the air as well as skinnier bullets; you�re limited to the powder you can squeeze into a 308 size cartridge; and it doesn�t have the tradition other than as the 338-08 wildcat. Rifle availability was quite good, but has gone down. Starting this year, Ruger builds the Hawkeyes in 338 RCM vice 338 FED and Sako isn�t importing them from what I�ve read (still make them though). Kimber is the only one chambering it in a bolt action, and available, in the US right now (I think). That's my take on it.

How many companies are making factory loads?

Popularity is not really exampled in such a short time. In 10 years you will see if it has potential to survive and in 20 years, you will see whether it did, becuase the current shooters are not the people who determine this, it is up to the next generation of huters to determine.

Our whims are not the arbiter on cartridge longevity.

John

Sako makes a couple and Federal has the following:

338 Federal 180 Nosler� AccuBond�

338 Federal 210 Nosler� Partition�

338 Federal 185 Barnes� Triple-Shock� X Bullet�

338 Federal 200 Trophy Bonded� Tip

338 Federal 200 Soft Point Power-Shok�

338 Federal 185 Soft Point American Eagle�

Fusion 200gn

I'd think a guy could get lots of stuff done right smartly with those seven factory loads.

I'd be sorely tempted to use only the 185gr TSX if it shot well, though. I can't imagine there isn't anything you couldn't do with that load, pronghorn to moose, duiker to eland.

I was disappointed to find out Federal will not release the 200 Trophy Bonded Tip as a component item for reloading. The 185 TSX has certainly proven to work well, but the 185 TTSX has a much, much, better BC which is helpful for the 338 Fed at it's furthest reaches. Ballistically, the 185 TTSX and the 210 Scirocco II seem to do the best. FWIW, they'll be right around 2000 FPS at 500 yds if fired at elk hunting elevations.

Whelenut, that one really made me grin!

I recently received in trade a DPMS LR-308 w/16" barrel that weighs in at 11.5 pounds with full-20rd mag and Leupy compact 2-7x scope. I shot amateur-level in our gun club/locally doing CMP shoots when that was big about 10+ years ago, and now that I have been shooting with various types of firearms over the last few years, the AR-type gun really appeals to me, and despite the muzzle blast, I really love this gun!

I & my gun-pimp were musing about the DPMS in other calibers, and he stated that it was once available in 300 SAUM. I saw that it was not any longer, but 338 fed was. I cannot afford to do anything for about a years, but you know, with this lower in 308 for a SHTF scenario, plus a 243 or 260 upper and a 338 fed too....well, that would go a long way towards totally covering everything i was interested in hunting....ya know?

I'm Thinking of getting an AR in .338 Fed.


That will kill it.

I would give your left arm for a winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather in .338 Federal. grin...

It appears to be equal to the 7mm mag in a short cartridge and less recoil.

Huh....?

Dober

If you look at the load data for the 160 gr bullet in 338 Federal and the 7mm rem mag the fps is the same with the 338 having more ft lbs of energy

Wondering if I bought yours... If so, thanks a bunch! It's a tack-driving, critter-slaying machine with TSX 185-grain. I won't be parting with it.

Somehow, seeing the words, "big girl panties" in proximity to Ingwe's name is fundamentally disturbing... Whatever you do, do NOT further inspire him with any talk of leopard-print patterns...

It's some stuff the marketing types at Federal came up with to try and schlep their first proprietary cartridge...."it has the energy of a 7mm magnum" or some such.

They should have just told it like it is....the .338 Federal pokes a big hole in chit and hits critters like a ton of bricks inside of 400 yards, and does so with very manageable recoil and in a handy package that doesn't need a long
barrel to reach maximum performance.

IMHO, with modern bullets it really is a 21st century cover of the grand old .318 Westley Richards. And that's damn fine company to keep.

Does anyone have any real world knowledge about how this round does in regards to wasted meat? I was wondering about this while reading another post covering the topic.

Wasted meat... as compared to what?

I've shot a bunch of hogs with the .338 Fed and have not noticed any abnormal amount of meat damage. I've shot them exclusively with the 185-gr. TSX and have observed less meat damage than with, say, rounds like a 130-gr. 270 Win SP.

Meat damage is caused by bullets, not cartridges.

John

U seriously believe that the 160 out of a 338 Federal is gonna be the equal of the 7 Rem with a 160...? I've had no issues running a 160 out of a 7 rem at 3100 with what I would call a standard 24" barrel. What speeds the 338 Federale gonna run a 160? Be my guess with what I would call a normal 22" tube of 22" 2900 would be about top end speed.

Thoughts...?

Dober

My father won a sako 338 federal at an auction. He was exited at first because he thought it was a 338 win mag. He was so discusted when he found out it was a 338 federal and looked at the ballistics he hasen't shot it yet and it has sat in the gun rack untouched for at least a year if not more now. He is looking at rebarreling it to a 243.

The ballistics to me say "meh" so what. If all your shots are limited to 200 yards and you feel the need for a large hole using a bullet with poor SD then this is probabbly a good choice, but then again there are a number of other good choices out there that already do just that.

Not that it is a bad caliber, I just don't see what it has over other calibers.

Now in an Ar10 it makes perfect sense and almost seems made for an auto.

I've heard of over 3000 with a 22" tube, but I'm not going to suggest it's beyond a 7mm mag. Also there would be an advantage at range due to skinny 7mm bullets. Certainly would matter if looking for a long range rifle (>450-500yds). But it's also close enough that out to a few hundreds yards, the ranges where probably 90%+ of game are taken, I doubt one could measure much of a difference in the field. Barnes reloading data indicates 3089 fps for the 160 (albeit a 24" tube). I've found I can meet their data easily with a 22" though.

iaqmbrb,
I really like this cartridge. I think it is more efficient than my 35 Whelen. I think with 210 Nosler Partitions it would put a bears dick in the dirt PDQ!
I think Remington should put it in the Model 7, Browning should put it in the BLR and DPMS has already put it in the AR 10.
Not including the internet, the average hunter has no business shooting beyond the effective range of this cartridge.(IMO)
It should leave a good Helen Keller bloodtrail and any elk, moose, or bear should be proud to be harvested with such a cartridge. It is not all that different from Elmer Keith's .333 OKH, which was one of his favorites.
whelennut

What does a .270 have over a .25-06 or a .257 Wby? What about a 7mm-08 and a .308 ? A 7mm mag and a .300wm ???

Dude, face it... LOTS of cartridges overlap in every category out there. To say your father was disgusted with the cartridge is just plain ridiculous, it will cleanly take anything in North America. Poor sectional density, eh???? What do you plan on shooting and at what distance....Oh let me guess - another, "I shoot Moose at 1,500 yards..."

3k out of the lil 3 might be doable with a 22" tube but I think one would have to step on it a lot harder than one would to get a 160 out of a 7 Rem with 24" tube.

Just the way I see it, but I've not owned a 338 Fed as of yet. In the Montana package it'd be a heck of a fun lil round. But, I'd run a 180 NBT and call it a day.

Barnes lists the BC as .342 with the 160/338 and I'd say that's a generous number, but then I've not been one to trust the BC's that Barnes puts out either. This isn't a bullet I'd pick to run with a 7 Rem mag in a drag race either though.

Running a 160 Noz out of the 7 which is a pretty common 7 Rem mag bullet which has a BC of .475 and running the numbers with JBM things begin to get ugly real fast!

Sight em both spot on @ 100 (which IMO the only way to do a side by side test) at 500 yds the 338 Fed drops a mere 14" more, energy for the lil 33 is 1191 and for the 7 the energy is 1826 ft lbs. Which gives the 7 a edge of about 635 lbs which is almost 50% more than the lil 33 has in total...

Take it to 600 and 700 yds and things get even worse.

Now grant it not many people take game in the 400-700 yd range but some do and for me when I begin to comp rounds I take it to the max ranges I'd be shooting at game.

Bottom line to me and my way of thinking the lil 33 is kind of a cool round but when comping it to a big 7 things are gonna go so well for it.

Course one could begin to take into account the ability of the two rounds to penetrate on big big game (IE elk) and things will no doubt get even uglier. And I for one want two holes in game, they're not always needed but it sure does help from time to time.

A bunch of BG for sure but it is what it is.

Dober

If someone wants magnum performance, buy a magnum. Where I see the .338 Federal really shining, and my purpose for it is, a lightweight hammer for spot and stalk bears, with 300 yards being an extremely long shot. Would a 7mm-08 or .308 serve the same purpose, sure, but what's the fun in that? Everyone's got a .308..

I hear you GW, I've always had a thing for the 33's and would love to tote a Montana/Federale around for all that moves for a while.

I'd add Talley's, and a 6x36 Leo with dotz and a 180 NBT and rock on. Would love to sanction some elk/whitey's and bruins with it. Most likely even a yote or 3 would fall victum...grin

Dober

Great minds think alike, only difference is mine will be wearing a Leupold VX1 3-9x40 with LRD and I'll be shooting 180gr Accubonds (BT's on roids). It's in the shop getting Tefloned as we speak and will hopefully be done later this week.

Was yours the one that had the spider paint job on it?

Dober

I have a VX-3 2.5-8 with a B&C waiting for my Montana to arrive.

Dat's the one. Matte black Teflon is gonna be sweet with that paint job.

I'd like to have a 2.5-8x on mine, but ran outta $$$

I have a Burris FF II 3-9 with a B-Plex on my Ruger and I honestly think it's a better scope. Spent A LOT of time doing side-by-side (near, far, dark, bright, you name it...) . But since it's sighted in on the Ruger (it replaced the VX-3) I'm leaving it there until I see how the Montana works out and then decide what to do with the Ruger. Probably don't need 2x 338 Feds and a 338-06.

If'n I end up with one, it'll wear a Minox ZA-5 1.5-8x32 with BDC reticle and have a load worked up for the 185gr TTSX/TSX...whichever shoots better. All critters great and small will not be safe.... grin

I think the 338 Federal is pretty neat in that AR platform as a Pig rifle....I see those guys on TV mow them down by the flocks......looks like fun!

Hmmmm. Who chambers it in the AR? Haven't been paying attention to that, but now that you mention it...

Kentucky I dunno......have seen it on TV with Dick Metcalf and a young guy where they specialize using the AR platform for a lot of different hunting....

The 338 Fed in the AR provided fire power and rolls those piggies head over heels......looks like lots of fast action and piles of fun!

DPMS LR338L $1214 I purchased one last month http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=50

Is it time to just go hunting yet?!

How about a report?

I just want to see pictures of dead animals with big, .338-cal holes punched in them by guys running .338 Federals.

Alright there is only one way to settle this. We need to have a Campfire Feral Pig Safari. We should have 40 guys with 7mm Magnums and 40 guys with .338 Federals.
When they have shot 100 pigs per team then we have them butchered and see which pigs are deader.
I'm voting for the .338 Federal! I can feel the warmth of Elmers smile beaming down on us all.
whelennut

My thoughts, would be if the 338 fed is the equal to the 7 Rem mag then get them both to top end and see how they run...so lets take a look at what they're capable. So we zero em both at 100 even and rock on

338 Fed/160 BarnesTTSX(.342 BC @ 2900) 7 Rem mag/160 Noz(.475 BC @ 3100)

300 yd drop=12.6 300 yd drop=10
400 yd drop=28.9 400 yd drop=22
500 yd drop=53.7 500 yd drop=40
600 yd drop=88.8 600 yd drop=66
700 yd drop=136.8 700 yd drop=98

So lets see how they comp out in terms of drop

@300 yds the 338 Fed drops 2.6" more
@400 yds the 338 Fed drops 6.9" more
@500 yds the 338 Fed drops 13.7" more
@600 yds the 338 Fed drops 22.8" more
@700 yds the 338 Fed drops 38.8" more

Hmm how's the old equal game working out here, I'd say not so good when it comes to drop...

Now you also mentioned energy, a term that doesn't do a ton for me but we'll go that route as well

338 Fed 7 Rem

300 yds=1763 300 yds=2371
400 yds=1454 400 yds=2085
500 yds=1191 500 yds=1826
600 yds=968 600 yds=1593
700 yds=784 700 yds=1384

So now lets see how they comp out in terms of Energy

@300 yds the 338 Fed has 608 less Energy
@400 yds the 338 Fed has 631 less Energy
@500 yds the 338 Fed has 635 less Energy
@600 yds the 338 Fed has 625 less Energy
@700 yds the 338 Fed has 600 less Energy

So now perhaps we take a look at speed and how it goes for the two..

338 338 Fed 7 Rem

300 yds=2278 300 yds=2584
400 yds=2023 400 yds=2423
500 yds=1831 500 yds=2268
600 yds=1651 600 yds=2117
700 yds=1486 700 yds=1974

(not sure how far beyond 500 the 160 will reliably open?

So how do they comp out in terms of speed?

@300 yds the 338 Fed is 306 fps slower
@400 yds the 338 fed is 400 fps slower
@500 yds the 338 Fed is 437 fps slower
@600 yds the 338 Fed is 466 fps slower
@700 yds the 338 Fed is 488 fps slower


Guess we can look at this a lot of ways, but in terms of the 338 Federale being an equal to the 7 Rem I think I'll take a pass on that theory...

Just my thoughts on said subject

Dober


(side note, personally I like em both and could easily use em both but I am also quite aware of what they are and what they're not...)

And on a very side note, I could easily hunt most all that moves with either round and have no qualms about it.

The lil 338 that GW has put together is truly a rock star rig and I really like it.

But when it comes time to comp out the two I don't find em equal.

Dober

I have a 300wsm to do the work of the 7 . I need a .338 Federal to play with.

It does the same job as the .358 Win. that I just can't bring myself to keep around.

George

I hear you on the 300 WSM, mines gonna do some heavy lifting this year with R17 and 155 Scenars. M70/300 WSM with a 3-10 Leo on top with a M1 on it, with a Hunters Edge wrapped around it. It'll do I spect...grin



Dober

That's nice. I never made it any further than the 180tsx. Bugholes....

George

It shoots well, can't wait to take it to 1K this spring and see how it perks at long range.

Dober

What if we compared a Hornady .338 225 gr. SST with a BC of .430
Compare that to the Hornady 7mm 154 gr. spitzer with a BC of .433
Now what if we compared the .338 Federal to a 7mm-08.
It seems fair to compare the two cartridges of equal powder capacity and by using bullets of equal BC.
Now the .338 has the advantage of a bigger cross sectional area
and more weight. This would make me choose the .338 if I were hunting bear or moose or elk. I think we can expect the heavier bullet to break big bones and disrupt more tissue.
whelennut

That'd be fun to do, especially over across the pond with a ton load of time and a lot of bullets.

Course the SST isn't quite what I'd pick as a big bone breaker even in a 338 Fed....

I'd say use the bestest bullets each one has available for the job at hand. If one wanted to go deep and break big bones it's gonna be very very tough to beat the 175 Noz out of the 7's big lil or small.

You mentioned the SST in the 338 Fed with a BC of .430 so if you wish to comp SST's in the two small case rounds I spect a fair comp would be to use the 160 SST with a BC of .550 out of the lil 7.

One could get 2700 out of the lil 7 with the 160 and what maybe 2400 out of the lil 33 if both rigs had 22" tubes.

IMO what one will do the other will do when it comes to bruins/moose or elks. And at long range the lil 7 will once again hand the 33 it's bunz!

Up close with stouter bullets for going for the most penetration I'd still bet on the 175 Noz going deeper than any of the 33's will do if bullet construction is the same. And this to me negates the 33's bigger cross sectional area or whatever you called it.

Just the way I see it but the 7's big lil or small are incredibly tough to beat. And this is coming from a fella who's been a confirmed 33 nutcase for many moons. (wore out two barrels with .340's shooting game/targets and long range chucks so I'd say that qualify's me as a 33 nutcase)

Dober

I'm with Dober....as a LR cartridge,comparing a 160 from the 338 to a 160 in a 7 mag is like comparing an asprin tablet to a javelin....forget the ballistic table stuff,which Dober should not even have to go through to "prove" it up,though the tables do tell the story.

And zero them both 2-3" up at 100 and then back off for point blank range;even to 500-600 yards and the 7mm 160 will leave the 338 firmly in the dust.....

The 338 Federal has its' virtues but competeing with a 7 mag as a LR cartridge ain't one of them.

I don't think anybody was ever trying to compare it as a long range cartridge. And, the 160 TTSX would be quite possibly the absolute worst bullet you could choose for the 338 Fed to get the most out of it at range. At 500 yds a 210 Scirocco II would be going faster than that little flat base 160. The 338 Fed is not a long range cartridge, but it can certainly be adequate to 500yds if you choose the proper bullets.

According to JBM if we started the 210 Sci with a BC of .507 @ 2500 (which I spect would be about it for a 22" 338 fed) then at 500 yds it's getting close to the same speed as the 160 but not quite.

JBM shows the 210 running @ 1813 fps and the 160 is at 1831. Drop of the long sleek 210 would be 55.8" @ 500 and the 160 is dropping 53.7" so the absolute worst bullet is still doing a bit better...

Just more BG for breakfast..grin

Pick one and get after it, don't matter to me which one you use but I have a hard time finding the 338 Fed to be the big 7's equal. But, that's just how I see it.

Dober

2600 with TAC is what my 22" runs. Or, 2750 with 185 TTSX. I don't see the Fed as the equal of 7 either FWIW.

that be rocking, how much Tac?

Thx
Dober

Don't have notes here, but 46 sticks in my head.

seems a bit warm to me, but I've never worked with one just studied them from afar..be a heck of a yote load..grin

Dober

The 2600 with the Scirocco II is as far as I'll push it. Same load is ~2610 with 210 TTSX. When shooting in 100deg temps, hot chamber, etc, the primers show a tiny bit of flattening (edges aren't quite as round). No sticky bolt or ejector marks though. The 2750 with the 185 TTSX (48.5 TAC) shows no pressure signs whatsoever.

I like the 180 NBT, have you run it?

Dober

Yup. Have a few hundred of them in fact. 48.5 Tac gets around 2800, accuracy has only been okay (.9-1.2ish). I did try some IMR 8208 XBR and accuracy was excellent, but haven't been able to chrono yet.

Gracias

Dober

What twist rate are the factories using in the .338 Fed tubes?

I'd be for betting they're 10's

Dober

That's what I assumed too.

Here is the dpms specs

Description

Barrel:

18" Fluted Barrel
416 Stainless Steel Lite Contour
6 grooves, right-hand 1x10 twist,
button rifled
Custom Compensator
Lightweight Gas Block

Chamber:

.338 Federal

Method of Operation:

Gas operated rotating bolt

Bolt & Carrier:

8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated
and plated per Mil Spec
Phosphated steel bolt, heat treated
and plated per Mil Spec

Sights:

None (mounting optics only)

Weight:

Empty - 7.9 lbs.

Length:

39.125"

Upper Receiver:

A3 Style Lightweight Flattop
Thick walled, extruded from 7129-T5 Aluminum
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Right hand ejection
Dust Cover, Shell Deflector and Forward Assist

Lower Receiver:

Milled from solid billet of 6061-T6 Aluminum
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Semi-Auto trigger group (early 2008 model)
Two Stage Trigger (late 2008 - Current model)
Integral trigger guard
Aluminum magazine release button

Stock:

Skeletonized black Zytel mil spec w/trap door assembly

Handguards:

Standard length Carbon Fiber Free Float Tube




Each Rifle comes with a 4 round and a 19 round magazine, 1-Nylon Web Sling

Scope Not Included

Never once claimed the 338 Fed to be long range. Thats where my 264WM with a 30" barrel with 1 in 8" twist takes over. Where is your 100 and 200 yard numbers? The 338 Federal American Eagle 185gr soft point starts at 2750fps and 3105 ft lbs, 100 yds 2510fps and 2595 ft lbs, 200 yrds 2290fps and 2150ft lbs. Hand loads will better that a bunch.

You are right on the money. The 7mm mag and a .338 Fed are way too different to even start to compare. What Federal left out of that marketing comparison was the "at the muzzle" part. That being said stuffing a 160 in a .338 makes about as much sense as a 120 gr in a 7 mm, you really have to ask WHY??

Now Mark, crunch the numbers on a .338 Fed with a 185 TTSX going 2750-2770 fps and you will see that its very adequate to 500 yds, and arguably the best of the bunch for big critters from a standard SA. A 7 mm Mag its not, but maybe better described as "almost a .30-06", but so is a well loaded .308 - some would argue....

With all thats been said about the 338 federal, how do you guy's think it will fare against the .338 RCM? They are both short .338's, but it looks as if the RCM has a slight edge for speed/energy and also looks like there are some heavier bullet loadings available.
Bill

The 338RCM is pretty equal to the 338-06. It's +/- 200fps faster than a 338 Federal depending on handloads.

Since we be gakkin' and all, if a feller really wanted to go long with a .338 Fed, the 225-gn Accubond at 2500 fps (which should be doable, as long as COAL doesn't become a problem) wipes a light/ fast bullet off the game board.

Having run low-BC bullets fast with my .358, and tried them at longer ranges, I can tell you they suuuuck. It's the wind; it has it's way with them.

And of course a 7mm eats either's lunch AND steals their chocolate milk AND gives them an atomic wedgie for drill.

I agree. I just don't know if that long bullet will eat up to much space trying to make an adequate COAL. I'm thinking something like the 200gr Accubond or 210gr TTSX at 2600 or so might make real nifty 400+ yard bullets in a .338 Federal. It would be a helluva thumper and put big holes in chit with either.

JB found that either the 225-gn .33 cal or the 225-gn .35 cal Accubond had the ogive back in the case neck at 2.8" COAL- but I forget which it was!

Having flung a buttload of the .33-cal 225's out to 650 yds with my .338, I can report that they are a very constant, accurate bullet.

That is about model perfecto!!

Dober

Jambrb: Sheesh!
Quote from turd ingwe: "Whats a .338 federal....?"
Its ignorant turds like this that make this site LESS usefull, fun and informative.
Sorry that turds like ingwe are not mature enough to either make a "quality contribution" or just say nothing at all.
Shameful waste he is.
Now on to some real life, real hands on, real experience with the 338 Federal!
I have been shooting my Tikka T-3 in 338 Federal for more than 3 years now.
I love it!
My Rifle is accurate and has rather mild recoil.
I have shot groups (3 shots at 100 yards) as small as .760" with my rig.
I have a Zeiss Diavari 3x9 variable scope on my Tikka.
I use my 338 Federal for spring and fall Black Bear Hunting and for Elk Hunting in the thick cover.
I have three friends who also enjoy their 338 Federal Rifles for Big and Medium size Game here in Montana.
I would venture an opinion that the 338 Federal is NOT setting the world on fire but it has a following and is a usefull and accurate cartridge.
Factory brass has of recent become available and that will add to its appeal.
I plan on using my 338 Federal when I get drawn for a Moose and/or Bison tag here in Montana!
Beware of turds!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG- How many threads have you started that you have provided either incomplete and or flat out wrong info? Wouldn't that be a bit of pot and kettle regarding contributions to this site?

Ingwe is hardly ignorant. He's a good guy (for a turd, lol).

He was just joking...

VG: I have waited 6 hrs. to see if ingwe responded and I salute him for NOT.

1. He knows how to spell IAMBRB 2. He has a sense of HUMOR, and 3.His icon tells he was JOKING.

I think he is a higher class of turd.

JWALL (Jerry)
__________________

VEGETARIAN......Indian Word For Poor Hunter

Man, isn't that the truth.

For me, the main virtue the 338 Mexicop is the bigger hole it requires in the barrel of a Kimber MT 84M, thereby shedding another 1.5 ounce. Dat's it.

Aside from that, I see no virtue in the round over a 308 Win. I'd sooner run a 180 in a 308 Win than a 180 in a 338 Federale.

Is that a thread killer or conversation starter? It's a little late at night to tell which

I like that. I may call it the .338 Federali from this point forward....


Travis

I'd run at least a 200-gn bullet in a 338 Fed myself. When comparing cartridges of different bore sizes, holding bullet weight constant is usually a bit... non-illuminating.

Here is Barnes load data from there web site you have to go to the 140 gr bullet in their data to reach 3100fps in the 7mm rem mag. Barnes is one of the more accurate load data providers.



338 Federal
♦ Indicates most accurate load
Bullet Weight: 160 gr Case Trim Length: 2.005" S.D. 0.200
Bullet Style: Tipped TSX FB Primer: Fed GM210M B.C. -
COAL: 2.820" Barrel Length: 24"
Case: Federal Twist Rate: 1:10"
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
Powder (grains) (fps) (grains) (fps) Density (%)
♦ RL 7 40.0 2695 44.0 2923 99
AA 2230 48.0 2861 53.0 3089 105


7mm Remington Magnum

Bullet Weight: 160 gr Case Trim Length: 2.490" S.D. 0.283
Bullet Style: TSX FB Primer: Fed GM215M B.C. 0.392
COAL: 3.240" Barrel Length: 24"
Case: W-W Twist Rate: 1:9.5"
Bullet Weight: 160 gr Case Trim Length: 2.490" S.D. 0.283
Bullet Style: MRX BT Primer: Fed GM215M B.C. 0.439
COAL: 3.240" Barrel Length: 24"
Case: W-W Twist Rate: 1:9.5"
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
Powder (grains) (fps) (grains) (fps) Density (%)
H1000 59.0 2621 66.0 2842 93
 RL 25 55.5 2645 63.0 2856 88

My observations have been different from yours, I've seen more wonky stuff in the Barnes manuals over the years than other manuals by far.

Anyone who honestly believes that a 160 in a Big 7 is gonna top out at 2850 or so is sorely lacking in Big 7 experience..

I've been working the the big 7's since the late 70's and to date I've not seen one that wouldn't run a 160 at 3050 at a minimum max and most of them would do 3100 with 7828, H870, R25, R22.

So we can cherry pick all day long, what I tend to look at is what is real life. And in real life the Big 7 kicks azz on the lil 33 in a big way!

Now I do like oddball rounds and kind of like the lil 33 but if I bought one I'd keep it on the real.

My experience has been that there's a lot of diff tween manuals. You mentioned that you need to go to a 140 to get to 3100 and with the Nozler manual with a 140 I see a couple loads that go beyond 3300 (R19/3318 and R22/3340).

Both are good rounds, both can do some real work but the idea that the lil 33 is an equal to the Big 7 isn't something I'm gonna buy into.

Dober

Sorry to interfere in your thread but want to give you the vision of a guy from Europe who use the 338Fed for 2,5 years now.
First i want to say that i don't understand why hunters punch each other because of caliber choice or liking. You all know that, if usefulness was the only reason to choose a caliber the 30-06 would be enough for 95% of our hunts even in Europe or Africa. Except in France (for crazy laws)where the good old 7x64Brenneke would do the same job.
But some calibers are better than other in some firearms or hunting situations or people prefer one to the other, that's freedom of choice.

In Europe for sure the 338 Federal will never become a block buster because of different way of thinking and sometimes laws but it offer some advantages over the cartridges we use mostly in driven hunt, where game is more difficult to kill or stop because of adrenaline and often so-so bullet placement.
As we mostly use semi autos in driven hunts i try to convince Browning, Merkel or Benelli to have a model so chambered. Would be easier on the rifle than the 9,3x62 or the magnum we use and easier on shooter too. Wait and see...

1st: It offer the punch of the 30-06 in a smaller package
2nd: Can use short action
3rd: Offer more punch than the 308, bigger size bullet, and with heavier one a bit more momentum
4th: In driven hunt seem to strike almost as strongly as a 35Whelen or 9,3x62 with 200 to 250grs.
5th: Better trajectory
6th: Less recoil so people train more and shoot better

For a guy who stalk it's accurate and good enough for more than 350m with Accubond or TSX. But a magnum is not and must not be compare to. The 7-08 is not a 7mmRM nor the 260Rem a 264WM, a 358 is not a 358Norma Mag. To condamn it is like condamning the 338-06.

Having used it on Wild boars, Red deer, Corsican ram, Roes in driven or stalk hunts, i would have no fear to use it for moose or Euro bears with the right bullet.
Note that i handload the 338Fed with 250grs bullet (have a stock of Sako Hammerhead)to 2300 fps (warm load but safe in my T3)and that the little beast anchor boars very well even if the case is a bit small for such heavy weight.

Not a bad cartridge but one in a "niche" on an over crowded market. For me , rifle loony, it's ok and i like it.
have a good sunday
Dom

My 338F experience is nil, but I ass-u-me it's pretty similar to the .358, which I have used quite a bit.

The appeal of something like a 338F is that at moderate ranges it hits hard, kills well, and (I like this part) doesn't turn meat to jelly.

To come back around to the 7-mag, it is simply capable of doing more than a 338F is. Period. But- which one would I rather punch a deer in the shoulder with at 40 yards? The 338F, hands down.

So I could l could, I think, love a 338F for the same reasons I love my .358. But they'd be different reasons than why I'd love a 7-mag.

Just IMHO!

Me to and the fact is less people reload than buy ammunition for there hunting purposes..Call them the normal Joes.My favorite is Federal Premium...

7MM Rem Mag..175 Nosler/2750 fps/2938 FPE..Drop at 300..14.4" 100 yard zero
7MM Rem Mag..160 Nosler/2950 fps/3091 FPE..Drop at 300..11.5"

338 federal..210 Nosler/2630 fps/3225 FPE..Drop at 300..16.2" 100 yard zero
338 Federal..200 TBTip /2630 fps/3071 FPE..Drop at 300..15.8"

So the 338 Fed your shooting 30 grains heavier in lead with a .054 larger frontal area and a difference of less than 2" drop at 300 yards and less than 200 fPE difference at 300 between the 175 Nosler and 210 Nosler.....Ummmm

For the normal Joe that does not reload and wants a 300 yard Elk rifle,seems the 338 Fed fills the bill nicely compared to the much smaller 7 Mag(.284 versus .338)...

For those that don't reload and rely on factory ammunition for there hunting/shooting.

Jayco

If you put a 300-yard limit on things it does, I guess, level the field some.

But I personally won't settle for a RIFLE-imposed 300 yard limit. If conditions, or my own shortcomings, impose that limit on a given day in the field- fine. But for a general-purpose hunting gun I won't accept my hardware imposing such a limit.

Plus- wind drift is what gets you, and I can promise you those light .33's at moderate launch speeds are getting blown around pretty good!

Check this out. 7-mag shooting a 160 Accubond at 3000 fps, vs. the 338Fed with a 200-gn Accubond at 2650 fps. Obviously all this does is show what we already know- that the 338F is a short- to medium-range round- but since others are comparing it to a 7-mag....

I've long said that for the most part all rounds are equal to 300 yds...

Dober

Says "who"?

Quit reading....start loading and shooting...

..I have never owned a 7RM (out of many)that would not give 3050-3080 with a 160;and if you set the rifle up properly you will, indeed, get 3100 from it very easily and safely.

If you want a 160 at 2850, buy a 280....

Dober is, as usual, correct.

That was pure ballistics,Jeff..Doesn't mean it won't kill 'em at 301 yards either.

The fact is the vast majority of hunters don't shoot elk at over 3-400 yards, if even that.I have a picture of a great bull shot by Tony Makris at 275 yards with a 45-70 Double and a muzzle velocity of 1650 fps and a 420 grain bullet.He knows his rifle and is able to shoot it at pistol velocities out to dang near 300 yards deadly.

Sure the big 7 is faster than Superman and hits harder than a freight train but it is and always will be .284 in diameter as the 338 is just that.338..

.054 diameter difference is larger than the difference in the 375 H&H and the 416 Remington Mag...How many African hunters are going to tell either of us the 375 is as deadly as the 416 for dangerous game?

Awe..They all work but some just go crazy thinking the big 7 is the first and last word as an Elk killing machine..It isn't...And lighter and faster isn't always the best combo...

Jayco

I actually agree with you (mostly) Jayco. My main elk rifles have been a .338 Win mag and a .325!

And I loves me some .358...

But a 338F and a 7-mag are just very different tools IMHO. And the simple truth is, you could take ANY shot with the 7-mag that you could with the 338F; but the reverse is not true. The 7 can just plain do more.

BOBNH: 10/4 on the 7 Rem Mag. I can't remember when I got my first 7 mag and now have had several. ALL OF THEM would give 3300 fps w/139-140 gr. bullets with IMR 4350 & slower powders like IMR 4831 & IMR 7828.

3100 fps is CERTAINLY achievable w/ 160 gr. bullets with IMR 4831 & IMR 7828.

Having reached the velocities I wanted with those powders I have not tried some of the NEWER powders that I hear will do it also.

A quality CHRONOGRAPH is an indispensable tool to verify your own gun/s velocity and the VERITY of some handloading manuals.

I have a manual which shows loads WAY TOO HOT and more than one which shows load WAY UNDER potiential. We must compare more than one manual AND chrono to see what reality is.

JWALL
_____________

VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

A 7mm RM will do, as a rule, 3,000 - 3.050 all day long with a 160 (and more). That the various component makers don't acknowledge that is about liability with the aging round.

A 338 Federal and 7mm RM with a 160 are distinctly different cartridges, though each will obviously kill well.

I just happen to know what I'd rather be running past 450 yards, and it isn't the 338 Federale...

I've been thinking about building a .338 federal on an extra '98 action i have. I would like to have it custom throated to take advantage of the longer magazine on the '98 and use 250gr bullets. my intent would be to try and drive them to about 2150fps. anybody ever ran 250's with a longer COL? Its a military action that won't allow the longer 3.34" COL of the 338-06 without modification.

advntrjnky

Brown bear sow with very young cubs. She's aware of your presence, agitated and 35 yards away.

What's your poison, 7mm RM running 160s at any velocity or .338 Federal running 210s?

s.s.: Whichever is IN MY HANDS. Both will do the trick from a cool head. Hopefully encounter doesn't turn SOUTH due to the cubs.

JWALL
__________________

VEGETARIAN.......Indian Word For Poor Hunter

All said and done its fun yanking the 7mm RM shooters chain. So i'll yank it one more time as the 264WM rains all over your parade. I bought my 338 Fed for brush with no thought of ever pushing it behond medium range. I have a 7mm RM setting in my safe it is my sons and I find it to be hard on the shoulder after a sight in session so I don't shoot it. My 264 has mild recoil and I can push a 85gr HP over 3900fps do that with your 7.

264: What's the old saying? One man's JUNK is another man's treasure. . Sounds like JUNK to me. L O L ! !

Whatever melts your butter or floats your boat.

JWALL
_____________

VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

Funny, I don't shoot a 7mm Mag of any kind... I just recognize worthless posts when I see them.

Brad that wasn't directed at you Just the die hard 7 shooters.LOL

So its "pretty similar" to a .358 Win - not a bad thing, me thinks.....



And virtually the same as .308 Win (although you like the .308 better....)

So doesn't that make the .338 Fed capable of covering all the ground from a .308 Win to a .358 Win....seems like a pretty good deal to me.

I don't recall anyone ever said that. ...it's a good all round BG cartridge if you load it right and point it straight.....just like many others.

If it didn't work well you wouldn't see so many of them killing elk-sized game here and worldwide.

Don't yank too hard or you might find it's your own tail you're pullin'

The 7 RM is the cartridge that knocked the 264's nose in the dirt and relegated it to relative obscurity.....where it remains today, except maybe on Internet sites

Where I'd get a woody for a 338F would be in a very compact rifle for sneaking around in the jungle trying to shoot stuff at relatively close range. Like my .358. This plays to it's strengths.

Again inferring from .358 experience I think I could get a good 338F perking to at least 400 yds, but it'd be way down the list of cartridges I'd choose for a 400-yd shot. Things get wonky (by definition) out towards the margins of a cartridge's capabilities.

Then again a 7-mag at close range is not ideal either.

Jeff: I know two folks personally who have had the grizzly sceario referenced above....I am happy to say I have not BTDT..

..but an old Idaho pal found himself in a disagreement with a grizzly over a cache of sheep meat.She came for him at about 25-30 yards,and a single 130 Bitterroot from a 270 ended that circus.

Bruce_____ from back here took a longish crack at a grizzly up in BC IIRC with a 270,and due to angle, merely grazed the front of the chest.He went to look for the bear(a boar)who popped out of the willows at 35 yards or so.

A 130 gr Nosler Partition ended that one,too.

These were both real, not contrived, situations....

I could care less which of the two (7RM or 338 Federal)I was carrying under those circumstances...placement and good bullets would count for more than any bore size difference...and if I wanted a larger bore under those circumstances, a 338 bore would not be it.I'd have a 375...

There is an old saying about people that applies to rifle calibers also and that is.....A good big fighter will always beat a good little fighter.Sure Suger Ray can knock you out but Tyson will knock you out of the ring.

The same goes for Rifles cartridges or the big 7 would be legal in Africa but it's not as it ain't got enough oomph compared to the 375 H&H and larger.

Given the Grizzly choice above,the 338 would be my choice with the larger frontal area by .054 and all but exactly the same recoil...338/210 Nosler versus .284/175 Nosler....

I sure don't get why alot of the 7MM fans are so defensive about there choice...Could it be the dreaded little rifle caliber disease?


Jayco

Nope....some of us just don't care what other people shoot....we know what we can do with what we use....we only get defensive when folks say stupid shidt,or under direct attack....

Folks who firmly beleive in bigger stuff like to regale us with tales of the superiority of fractionally larger bore sizes and more corpulent bullets,and how we are doomed to failure if we aren't using something with a hole in the barrel big enough to fit a sewer rat...blowing on like bagpipes and telling tall tales of elk shot with 7mm's that make it over park boundaries and how a Big Bore saved the day......this makes for good entertainment,but can't be taken seriously.

Mostly, we laugh....and go on killing stuff. Happens several thousand times every year.

These silly conversations have been going on for decades....makes me wonder wwhich side really suffers from the syndromes and other disorders(?)

I likely will never get to test the theory on the troublesome grizzly; I have only killed two, so what do I know ......the folks I know to whom it happened did not have a chance to read the tables at the time to know they were poorly armed....they just shot well with what they had....that tends to work pretty well,mostly.

That's the way it is supposed to be,Bob instead of the name calling/ temper tantrums and the child like,I am going to put you on ignore for teasing me. If 'ya can't stand the heat,stay out of the kitchen.

We all enjoy the same thing and we all have our opinions which sometimes differ..Those sure of themselves and experiences give out facts to back up there opinion...Those not sure of themselves, dish out names and insults far from the subject because they can't back it up or don't have the experience they say they do.


As to the 338 Federal..For most it would make a hell of an Elk round for normal hunting and circumstances.Is it better or worse than any other cartridge, including the 7MM Rem Mag?????

It Depends on whose using it....Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Jayco

I agree with what Ken Water's wrote in Handloader about the 264 being a fine cartridge, but where Winchester erred was not making it a 7mm. And judging by what happened when Remington released the 7mm RM a few years later, he was right. Not including military rounds, it's got to be (or at least one of) the most popular cartridges released in the last 50 years.

Wasn't so much the headstamp or the chosen projectile diameter Remington fielded as it was Winchester's chosen projectile weights and Model 70 barrel lengths that "screwed the pooch" for the .264WM's future.


Regarding the .338Fed, I'd just as soon stick with the .308W.
For multiple reasons.

wtm 45: IIRC, when the 264 & then 7 RM came out the bullet diameter had more influence BECAUSE there were several MORE bullet weights and better bc & sd in 7mm than 6.5 (264).

Sometimes my memory has dark holes or cobwebbs, or rust but I'm pretty sure on this one.

The 264 has LIGHTER bullets but the 7 HAD & does have more heavy bullets. Back up to the 60s & 70s, we didn't have monos or bonded LIGHT bullets THEREFORE the heavy bullets had more APPEAL and practical applications than LIGHT bullets.

Today the monos or bonded bullets SURELY helps the 264 but the discussion IS about why the 7mm out sold and became more popular.

That's the way I understand it and I'm NOT anti 264 but even today I prefer the 7mm and I have NOT hunted a 7mm in at least 4 years.

Now back to the 338F vs 7RM, IF faced with ANY dangerous game I would PREFER the 338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM or larger cartridge.

JWALL
_____________

VEGETARIAN........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

I don't know how this degenerated into an argument about the merits of the .338 Federal vs. the 7mm Rem Mag. Those are two pretty different cartridges that excel at different things.

As an elk round, I'd be fine with either. Inside of 100 yards, I'd take the Federale.

Between 100-300 yards, I doubt it matters much. Some people like bigger, heavier bullets and some like velocity. Both would be terrific choices at these ranges.

Between 300-400 yards, both are still more than adequate, but I'd lean more toward the 7mm RM as it takes some of the guesswork out. If I had time with and knew the .338 Federal rifle I was shooting, I'd have absolutely no qualms about popping an elk with it at these ranges, though.

At 400-500 yards, I'd definitely want the 7mm RM. In fact, about 500 yards is as far as I would ever pull the trigger on any game, and even then it would have to be a darn-near perfect set up where I had a spotter with binoculars and wide-open terrain where we both could see the animal for a considerable distance after the shot. The only things I'd want to shoot at such distances would be very flat-shooting, wind-bucking numbers with minimal recoil such as a 6.5x.284 or .264 Win Mag running good 130s or 140s, a .270 Win or Roy or WSM using good 140s or 150s, or a .284 Win,.280 Rem, or 7mm Roy or RM or WSM or SAUM running good 160s.

I'd prefer the .338 Federal to a .308 Win as an elk rifle without question. I'd get the same trajectories as a .308 shooting 165gr bullets but with 200-210gr, .338-cal bullets and roughly the same recoil. Although the ammo availability hugely favors the .308, for elk, I'll take the bigger bullets and greater energy every time.

And the brown bear scenario mentioned before really doesn't have a right answer, IMHO. I was just using it to illustrate that there may be at least some situations where folks might prefer the performance of a .338 Fed to a 7mm RM, because it seemed as if some fine folks were saying that the 7mm mag wins hands-down, every time.

First, Winchester did not promote their 140gr at their factory velocity as having better SD/BC than the 7RM (which it did unless heavier .284 bullets were used which took away some capacity and velocity). They were promoting the 100gr loads, and that was considered marginal for anything bigger than deer/antelope at that time.
Second, Winchester shortened the barrel lengths, 26" should have been the mandatory for all .264WM chambered rifles. Shorten it, and you move into .270W territory with additional blast, recoil and powder consumption.

We are saying pretty much the same things, from different angles.

Biggest advantages of the .338F over the 7RM would be the overall rifle weight can be lower and more rounds on board.

But in regards to on game performance, monometal bullets keep the .308W right there in the same conversation with the .338F.

Pretty much sums it up for me. If you need to go beyond 500yds, give or take, the Fed is not the choice. Inside that it will make things dead, and do so in small package. We could probably add 20+ rounds to the argument but as long as it kills things as far as you can shoot, the rest is just preferences.

Neither. I own and shoot both, but I'd take something like my Ruger .338 RCM over either of these choices, especially when prowling around thick stuff.

Getting bake to the original Q...IMHO the 338F is a great cartridge. I put one together using a Savage model 10 action (I won the rifle in a raffle, so only a $10 investment) and had it rebarrel by ER Shaw with a SS 22" tube. It loves 200 grn Fusions and I have worked a load using LVR powder and 200 BT shoting 0.75" at 100. Next I will be moving to 210 grn Scirocco. It has the inherrent accuracy of the 308 parent cartridge and with more potential thump than you can out of the 308. It will be my primary rifle for Dec bull hunt (thus the Scirocco) with my 7mm STW as a back up or for long shots.

The way I see it the 338F and STW are alot alike, they both have/had a cult following with out Rem or Win carrying the cartridge. I just hope Rem doesn't decide to come out with a 330 Rem to kill the 338F like the 7mm Ultra did to the STW.

I'd want something different, too. A .404 Jeffery, perhaps.

The premise was an "either/or" question, though, between the .338 Fed and the 7MM RM. I was just trying to illustrate that the 7mm may not be better in all scenarios, that's all.

Any chance to chrono that? I've tried LVR with the 210 Scirocco II, but not any 200s.

KW: The 338 RCM is NOT one of the choices in the question.

IMO the RCM doesn't offer enough advantage over the Federal to choose AS you did, I pick 338 WM as minimum ALSO not a choice.

JWALL
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VEGETARIAN....... Indian Word For Poor Hunter

If bullet diameter means nothing then subtract .054 from the 7Mm Rem Mag(.284) and you get a sub .243 Cartridge.So does this mean the 243 Winchester is superior or equal to the mighty 7MM Rem Mag at .284?

Doubt it....


Jayco

Haven't chronoed yet, hope to next Fri. Litterature suggested 49.0 grn LVR will push a 210 Scirocco about 2622 out of a 24 " tube. So I am loading 48.6 grn LVR and hopeful to be pushing the 200 grn BT between 2575-2600 from my 22 inch barrel. That's the load that I am getting 0.75" at 100. I'll try to post fps next week.

I really want to get a minimium of 2550 out of my 22" barrel for the 210 Scirocco for my elk hunt. If I can, I should have enough energy (2000-ish ft/lbs) out to about 300-350 yard to take an elk.

It offers enough advantage, especially in a short, handy rifle, that I'd take it over the other two in a heartbeat. Alas, as everyone's quick to call foul, it's not a choice.

That being the case, I'd likely follow the Keitheian hypotheses and opt for the bigger hole.

"Keithian hypothesis"... love it!

I didn't coin that... borrowed from Capstick.

K W: I didn't remember that statement from Capstick. I have several of his books + some of E Keiths works.

It didn't take but a few seconds to UNDERSTAND "Keithian Hypothesis." Made me smile.

It seems to me we have less GOOD WRITERS today. I am not saying we don't have any, just less. I enjoy J.B. and respect his opinions and experience. I remember quite a few who were writing in the 70s-90s, I miss some of them very much.

JWALL
_________________

VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

PRM: "If you need to go beyond 500 yds the 338 F is not the choice"

I think you'll find PAST 300 yds the 7 RM is leading in velocity and energy and trajectory. I am NOT a 7 RM fanatic, I haven't hunted a 7 mm for at least 4 yrs but I have hunted it a lot and killed plenty of game with it.

The last 3 yrs I have hunted a 300 WM exclusively. This yr. 011 I'll be hunting an 06 & Tikka 270 Win. SO don't conclude that I think the 7 RM is the end all or best of everything.

IMO the 338 F is terrific w/in 300 yds. "Keithian" holes and all.

JWALL
____________

VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

Up where I hunt elk a 210 Scirocco II, or a 185 TTSX, will still be doing just under 2000fps at 500yds. Dead is dead. The 7 mag won't make it more dead. The 7 mag may have an advantage, but so would a 338 Lapua. But are they necessary, no. At lower elevations and/or longer ranges I would need something different than the Fed, until that's the case I'll be happy to hunt with the Fed.

PRM: I'm NOT arguing but are you sure about 500yds-2000fps w/338 dia. 185 gr bullet?

Again I'm not being critical, that seems optomistic w/those BCs. out of a short case.

JWALL
_______________

VEGETARIAN........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

According to JBM, a 185 TTSX starting at 2750 will be doing 2010 at 500yds. That's at 9000' elevation. Obviously not quite the same as sea level. But I don't hunt elk at sea level. I haven't measured that personally, but I will confirm the ballistics this summer relative to a B-Plex or B&C reticle. Down at 500' elevation it would be closer to 1800fps, still enough to open, but certainly the outer edge.

prm: OKAY, I'll accept that but it does surprise me due the bore size and light weight, aka ballistic coefficient.

If it's doing that I'll change my mind. I am interested and hope you update us. Good Luck, seriously.

JWALL
_____________

VEGETARIAN.........Indian Word For Poor Hunter

The Fed is not a long range rifle by any means, but there a couple of bullet/velocity combinations that are just enough such that I don't personally feel range limited by the rifle. It helps that it matches a B-Plex reticle almost perfectly too. Some bullets, the 210 Partition for example, just don't have the BC to make it happen that far out at lower elevations.

I've used the BP with my 338/06 to set things up to 500 with the 200's @ 2900 and or the 250's to 500 with speeds in the 2500 range.

BP's, Dotz, B&C's make things very easy!

I could easily run a Montana with a 6x36 Leo with dotz in it for all that moves here.

Be a heck of a yote rifle..<g>

Dober

Hmmmm. Now I'm perplexed. I checked the reference where I THOUGHT I remembered the "Keithian Hypotheses" term from -- a reprinted March '78 piece from Guns & Ammo by Capstick entitled "Oldies are Goodies." In that piece he actually references the "Askinian Hypotheses."

I'll have to keep looking for the reference, but I'm still pretty certain it came from Capstick, as did his succinct summation of Elmer's views:

"If you're fixin' to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember."

That's always been one of my personal favorites.

I have one in a Tikka T3 lite. Accurate, not fussy and a rifle I don't worry about getting dinged up. Took it out last year, 3 shots 3 deer. No meat damage to speak of none went beyond 20 yards. Using Barnes 185 TSX and 8208XBR. Works for me. It's not a 7RM, and never expected it to be. If I want long range then the 300H&H with a 180 or 165 will do the trick. May not ever be really popular but the 338 Fedral does what I ask of it and have no plans of getting rid of it for something else.

PRM, chronoed this morning. The 48.6 LVR pushed the 200 grn BT to a consistent 2590 +/- 5 fps. 48.8 of LVR was all over the place for some reason (all the same bullets and oal) from 2566-2606. 49.0 of LVR avgerage 2610 +/-10.

Factory Fusion 200 grn averaged 2730. All of this was out of a 22 inch barrel. The shooting was bitter sweet as groups were al over the place.

A 200gr, .338-cal, bonded, boattail bullet at that velocity is a rather formidable projectile.

That is great speed with the factory stuff. Hard to beat. 49gn of LVR is still pretty light for the 200 I would think. Not sure if it was compressed or you saw pressure signs though. They don't have book loads for the 200, only the 210, 215 and 225. The max for the 210 Scirocco II is 49, but then it goes up to 52 for the 215 Sierra. The 210 SC II has a very long bearing surface and generates higher pressures I believe making it difficult to compare to others (in my experience it generates higher pressures than 210 Partitions or 210 TTSXs). I also find accuracy tends to get better towards the upper end of the pressures for any given load (if it's going to get better).

seattle...the Fusion is absolutely going to be my plan B if I can't get a load worked up that I like for elk this season.

prm...No pressure signs with the 49 LVR and 200 grn BT, and no compressing but filling up quick. I've heard horror stories of the 215 Sierra not expanding at 338F velocities. I think my next trip to Sportsman's I'll be pick up more 200 grn BT and some 210 TTSX to start working on. What's the length like on the TTSX? is it going to take up alot of case space, I've never loaded Barnes stuff before.

Don't overlook the 185gr TTSX, either. It has better BC than the 140gr 7mm, and only slightly less than the 150gr 7mm TTSX. With the penetration it provides, it may be a very good all-around bullet in that case.

I did try the 210 TTSX. It is a very long bullet (1.478") and really eats into the powder space. I could never get them to shoot well. The 185 TTSX was the easiest bullet to get to shoot well for me so far. Will be trying it in a second 338 Fed tomorrow. It may be lighter than the 200 BT (Silvertip), but it has a better BC and retains weight and penetrates much better. (Note: the 185 out of my Fed outpenetrated the 200 CT fired from my 338-06 when fired into phonebooks...FWIW).

I'm about to start monkeying with the 225 DeepCurls and 2000 MR. Alliant lists 2625 using 225 Fusions. I'd be thrilled if I can get 2550 out of the DeepCurls with their .490 BC.

Those book numbers are very nice. I haven't been able to match their book numbers. Ex: with the 200 Hot Cor they list 52gn for 2725. I get 2620 with 52gn at 2.81 and a Fed 210 primer. Granted its a 22" vice 24" barrel that I'm sure they used, but that's a big difference. I did just notice today there was a large difference using the 215 primer vs. the 210. 52gn of 2000MR with a Nosler 210 Partition I got 2625 with the 215 and 2583 with the 210 primer (all are three shot averages corrected to muzzle velocity). Everything else the same. Let me know what you find out. Could be a very good combination.

badshot...I'm with prm. Getting book velocities almost never happens for me and like prm, I too am shotting 22 inch, not 24. That being said, I haven't seen any Deep Curls yet and I would be interested in the results you get. What are you hoping to hunt with this combo?

prm...40 fps advantage seems like a worth while experiment, and at about $3.50, not too expensive to try teh 215's.

The 215 example was really just to indicate that the book load for a 215gn bullet was 52gn of LVR, so you may be able to go up a fair amount from the 49 you were testing with the 200gn bullet (working up of course). I will say I can generally match the book loads for TAC, or at least be well within the consideration of having a 22" vice 24" barrel. A bullet that has impressed me is the 200 Hot Cor. The ones I have recovered from shots into phone books and stumps have looked like bonded bullets. The 200 CT and 200 SST come completely apart. Can't say that's representative of game though. There are no shortage of good bullets and powders to play with for the Fed.

First off - I like the round, ballistics, and what it offers for what it was designed to do.

BUT, I found a thread that said Sako cut chambers .007 oversized to allow for users to form brass from 308, 358, etc. and several Sako owners reported they were unable to get below 2" groups.

Wonder if that is/was a fact and if so if it was ALL 338F Sako's.

Anyone on chamber/throating being 'oversized' for handloaders and it's negative impact on accuracy? It would be interesting to know what chamber specs were used in various rifles.....or runs of a specific model.

Blueranger,

I've had mixed results with book velocities. For Barnes 160 and 185 TTSX, the book velocities were right on. I went one grain under max for both and was able to get 3050 and 2820 fps with Accurate 2230. I've had good luck with Alliant 2000MR and 200 grain bullets. Using 52 grains, everything shot right about 2650 FPS. I tried 200 SST, 200 Interlock, 210 Partition. My rifle seems to really like Hot Cors and Accubonds. I've loaded them with 52 grains as well but never got around to chronying them. I just figured they were about 2650.

Hot Cors are my primary bullet. The Deepcurls are just a cheap experiment. Anything north of 2500 FPS would be impressive with it's high BC and weight retention. They are supposed to open easily.

As far as hunting with my 338 Federal, it's primarily going to be a wild boar rifle since my land is in East Texas. Any bullet from my 338 Federal would do fine for this purpose.

Oh, I too have a 22" barrel.

Hi all,

First post here. I thought I would contribute some thoughts and experiences. When i read about the 338 and the supposed power, I took the reference to the 7mm simply as giving a reader a warm fuzzy feeling that it has enough power to play ball with bigger animals and it gave the reader a quick comparison power wise to an established round that everyone has a firm knowledge of. i don't think they are aimed at targeting the same audience.

I think both are overkill for deer. The 7mm rem mag I only think is needed if you are really shooting at longer ranges for deer 250+ yds.

I think the 338 federal is great as a under 200 yd or less black bear/hog gun. It can be put together in a more compact package and gives a bit bigger hole in animals that tend to have a bunch of fat to plug up a hole.
I built mine as a black bear rifle. T/C Prohunter with an MGM 19" barrel and 1.5-6 vx-3 on top. It is great to drag thru the brush. Since I didn't get a shot at a bear i took it out for deer season. 185 TSX went in in front of the near shoulder and blew through the far shoulder. The deer was at a slow run at about 65 yds. I was shooting off hand uphill. It laid down about 20 yds from the point of impact.

I think few of us actually need a super fast super flat magnum at the distances we shoot. My biggest complaint is half of the guys I know are shooting deer at 50 yds with a 7mm or 300 mag using discount bullets and are surprised when their cheap bullet has no consistency in expansion or just epically fails. Previously I hunted everything with a hand me down model 94 30-30 with open sights. so maybe i have a bit of a skewed outlook on life.

I haven't owned one, but i have had a reasonable opportunity to see what it can do in friend's rifles. And from what i have observed i would have to agree with a lot of the sentiment above - it is simply unbeatable on bigger and tougher deer (or big pigs) at non-internet ranges. I have been very impressed with the combination with the 185 gr Barnes TTSX. Bullet performance has been far more reliable than using 7mm and 300 mags at these ranges - which are generally less than 250 yards and often much closer (OK, i'm sure guys could have done better with their reloading and choice of ammunition, too). And i think the reality is, these are the ranges at which most real hunting occurs - not all, but most. And rifles are lighter and handier, and don't recoil a lot (although recoil is almost beside the point at these ranges). I have a 8x57, and it is very similar, but if i had a turnbolt i'd have the 338 instead for the shorter action and choice of 338 bullets.

It is certainly not a cartridge for folks who find ballistics at 700 yards is of some significance to them. It is a real hunter's cartridge. If you are after big deer at ranges of less than about 300 yards (and who isn't), i think it is simply your best bet.

Just a 358win with a pink bow on it.

The 338 Fed is capable of near pass throughs on Kudu and Gemsbok. Zebra penetration to the opposite shoulder. IMHO,the 338 Fed is capable of killing any NA game animal at 200 and under.

Emphasis on the humble opinion part,please.

Killed this 210 lb boar with a Ruger No. 1-AB in .338 Federal using the American Eagle 185 gr PSP. DRT...

passed one up one time. a brand new ruger 77 all weather, black synthetic stock and stainless barrel for $459.99. have regreted not buying it ever since.

Well, if you are serious, you have another chance. CDNN has some available for $399.99. I just had my dealer order one for my oldest son. He was so excited when he saw the ad, I just decided, why not? If it doesn't work out, it would still make a dandy platform for a nice .260 Remington or 7mm-08. But I am kind of intrigued by a bigger bore without the magnum recoil. I am very interested to see how it recoils compared to my .270 WSM. I realize it is not a long range caliber, but believe it will be very effective at practical ranges (under 300 yards), and a real thumper inside of 100 yards on black bear and such. Here is the link:
Check page 52

I'm wondering about punching out the barrel on a Ruger Scout Rifle...how much would you loose with the short barrel?

TFF

or a .308 w/ a Black Tie ?

Question ? Are the .338 bullets designed for .338Win Mag or 340Wby velocities too stiff for the Fed velocity range ?

I can't see the point of the .338 Federal for myself. Can't see any difference with a 30-06. But for those who .338 loonies, I just noticed that Midway USA is selling a .338 Federal upper assembly for the AR-10. Might be just the thing for hog hunters.