At 30'06 velocities, how do these compare as to penetration and expansion ? Does the TB spread wider like some bonded bullets do ? Does it open well at extended ranges ? E

E, from what I've seen the TB will open wider. In theory the Partition should penetrate a bit more, but I've never tested them side by side to know for sure. I do know the 30-06 and 180 Partitions go together like peas and carrots.

I have just under 1,000 180 Partitions on hand which might let you know what I think of the bullet...

Thanks Brad. I am familar with the Partition in .243, (95-100 grs.), and the 7mm (140-160 gr.). You're right. They work well.
I've only used two TB's. Both on the same buck. Seemed to open like an X or a TSX. But that was really too small a sample. E

The following is more of an opinion as I don't kill enough animals or do enough bullet testing to prove it with much certainty. I have killed at least three times as many animals with a Partition than a Bearclaw if that matters.

The wound channels with the Bearclaws are slightly wider than the Partition.

As to penetration, I believe the Bearclaw penetrates better as I have only kept one bullet in an animal I have shot using them and have found severl Partitions.

The Partiton seems to kill deer slightly faster while the Bearclaw has worked somewhat faster on elk.

Oddly, the bearclaws open extremely well on light game like coyotes and badgers.

My experience with the TBBCs is limited to their .22 cal 55 grainer...shot a pile of deer with them...full penetration, worked great.
The NPT is something Ive shot a LOT of in various weights and calibers..it is one of the few sure bets in life. It ALWAYS works...period-amundo.It is the best compromise between penetration and weight retention....

Likewise, the NPT is easier to find and in more variety...

I've yet to find a hunting bullet I prefer over the Nosler Partition. YMMV.

Gotta agree with ingwe.

I've used the 55 TB a fair bit on lopes/yotes and deer. It was effective and realitively fur friendly..grin

Dober

I have shot a few animals from deer to elk with Trophy Bondeds in all their versions, from Jack Carter's original to the present Tipped TB with the grooves and nickel plating.

They all expand wider than Partitions, but in my experience the Federal version is an improvement over the original, because it expands to a flatter front, instead of the ball that Jack's version often ended up in. The flatter front tends to cut a bigger hole and kill quicker than the older version.

The latest, grooved version does the same thing inside animals, but in some rifles is more accurate due to the grooves.

In my tests in media, penetration is about the same as a Partition of the same weight, due to the wider expansion of the TB. Based on experience with other tipped bullets, my guess is that the present plastic-tipped version would expand a little more reliably at longer ranges, but I've never shot an animal beyond 250 yards with any of them.

How about if you comp them to a SAF?

Dober

My experience is much as above although none were in a 30-06.

In a 375, I find the TBBC penetrates further and leaves a big wound channel. Seldom recover a TBBC.....may penetrate further than TSX even.

I wish I had a bunch of 55 TBBC, .224 but the few around are grossly overpriced.

Mark,

In my tests the A-Frame and Partition also penetrate about the same, when comparing the same bullets at the same velocities. Again, it's because the AF retains a wider mushroom.

This also about what I've seen in game, with one exception when a particular batch of AF's came apart badly. That was apparently an anomaly due to a manufacturing defect, because I've never seen it before or since.

U been able to get the AF's to shoot well? They shoot well in my 338/06 and did in a 25/06 I had. And my 340 liked em but haven't done much with them for years.

Thx
Dober

Yeah, usually they shoot pretty well. They also don't seem to be as touchy as Scirocco II's.

Thanks guys. Much appreciate the information. E

I bought some of the Federal High Energy 180 grain TB bullets in .30-06 when they first came out. I was shooting them out of a 27" barreled custom Model 70. Velocity was 3,030 fps. average! YES folks, that trounces every factory .300 Win Mag. ammo I have ever chronographed. Groups hovered around an inch, or a bit more.

My first victim was a big Wyoming Shiras moose. First shot at 175 yards centered the shoulder. He was in full rut and had two cows with him. He jumped in the air and the second bullet hit a couple of inches above the first. I wanted to "try" to recover a couple of bullets, since they were new. I put 4 bullets in that bull in less than 30 seconds. He was definitely dead on the first one and was tipping over when the 4th one hit him. All 4 bullets were clustered in a circle about the size of a soft ball in the front shoulder. Lots of bone was hit and I only recovered one bullet, just under the skin on the off side. It was a text book mushroom and weighed 172 grains. The other three exited with nickel sized exit holes. The innards were completely scrambled and both shoulders were broken.

My buddy took the same bullets to Africa, although they were 160 grain and 7mm magnum. He shot zebra, wildebeest, kudu, tsesebee, impala, baboon and a bunch of other critters with the bullet. He recovered one out of the zebra (broadside shoulder shot), one out of the wildebeest (sharp quartering away) and one out of an impala ram (broadside shoulder shot). All were text book mushrooms. The interesting bullet was the impala. He found the bullet laying on top of the sand where the impala was standing when he shot. It had exited, just barely and fell out on the ground.

The PH wasn't a 7mm fan at all and wanted him to bring "an African rifle". By the end of the trip, the PH was REALLY impressed with the 7mm magnum and TB bullets. He was jabbering and calling all his other PH friends about this "new" bullet.

The clients in the past had brought typical cup and core bullets factory loaded in the 7mm and penetration REALLY suffered. That was why he was down on the 7mm. It wasn't the caliber, but the bullets that were the problem.

We have killed a few elk with this load as well with perfect results. With the new plastic tip, they are even better.

Having shot a few partitions at elk, I find the wound channels in critters MUCH smaller and less traumatic than the TB bullets. The partitions have penetrated "a little" better, but only because once the front nose lead blows off, they go through like a semi wad cutter. Out of the 4 elk shot with .270, .30-06 and 7mm mags., I have not been impressed at all with partitions. Sure they died, some took some tracking, which I never did with ballistic tips or TB bullets. They all went quite a ways before tipping over. I will take the TB bullets 3-1 over the partitions. They retain their weight, crunch bone and still look fabulous. I like what they do to critters. Flinch

Flinch,

I had similar results from the High Energy 180 Trophy Bonded .30-06 load from Federal. It chronographed around 2940 from the 24" barrel of my NULA .30-06 and grouped under 1-1/2", plenty good for most elk hunting.

However, my experience with Nosler Partitions on elk (and other big game) has been very different from yours. My wife and I have shot around 10 elk with Partitions from 150-grain .270 to 200-grain .30. So far none have gone more than 45 yards before falling, and most much less.

We have also taken two moose with Partitions, and they haven't gone that far. In fact the quickest kill I've seen from a lung shot on a bull moose was on the average Shiras bull my wife took with a 150-grain from her .270 Winchester. The bull was angling away, and Eileen put the bullet in the rear of the rig-cage. He took a step and folded up. We found the bullet in the far shoulder.

I shot a big bull in British Columbia with a 286-grain 9.3mm Partition, and he stumbled a very short way before falling and rolling downhill. The bullet didn't tear a huge hole, but he'd fallen by the time I got the second round in the chamber, and I'm pretty quick with a bolt.

M D - Maybe I know, but I can't remember, Who makes the trophy bonded bullet FOR Federal.

If we can't buy them AS components, what other bullet would be comparable?

THANKS Jerry

I'm not sure.

The first Trophy Bonded bullets for Federal factory ammo were made by Jack Carter, but after a short white Federal started making them, with some changes from the original. Federal was making them in Anoka when I visited their factory 15 years ago. Possibly Speer makes them now, since they're part of the same overall company, but I visited the Speer factory a couple of years ago and never heard or saw any indication of that possibility.

This has pretty much been my experience as well with the Partition,although I have on occaission also seen what Flinch is talking about;and it has mostly happened with some heavier Partitions which sometimes behave "tough" on shots where just ribs and lungs are hit;and I've seen it mostly with 160 gr 7mm's on deer sized game,and even 180 gr 30 cal on deer and elk....where they take a broadside through the lungs and skeedadle a ways.....never far really and results are frequently a lot different when they are placed on bone somewhere along the way......but IME this has been more the exception than the rule and I have not had a problem finding anything;I chalk it up to the smaller frontal area of the expanded Partition.......mostly I have had good luck killing animals with Partitions pretty much where they stood...

But this is puzzling sometimes as I have had coyotes nearly blown in two from various Partitions in different calibers...so you know you're getting some expansion there alright....

OTOH and IME the 140 from a 7 mag and 130 270's tend to be fast killers from what I've seen on deer sized stuff.Their easy expansion and deep penetration suits me well enough that they are standard fare in a 270 or 7mm for me.

I have not gotten to Aframes or TBBC's and likely won't because I laid in a lifetime supply of Bitterroots (the bullet that TBBC's and Aframes were invented to emulate)years ago;but sounds like they are much the same and seem to expand to a pretty broad frontal area and I have seen the kind of "crunch" Flinch is talking about....especially from magnum hulls and high velocity....they make a mess due to early expansion to a broad frontal area, and break everything between the holes, penetrate well, although at closer distances you might recover them,and at longer distance where velocity has fallen off,they will exit.....in any event they have given me a higher percentage of quick kills than anything else.Friends who have used the Aframe and BBC in Africa report very good results with both,and it seems they are peas in a pod.

IME these heavy jacketed bonded core bullets seem to like all the velocity you can give them; the more the merrier far as they are concerned,which is why I go no heavier than 130 in 270 or 140 on a 280....and like the heavier one's in a magnum hull, myself.

Bob,

Partitions normally blow a big crater for several inches beyond the entrance hole, where the front half of the bullet has expanded violently, and then cut a narrow channel after that, where the bullet continues penetrating with its relatively narrow mushroom.

This "expansion" crater tends to be bigger with higher velocity, the reason lighter Partitions tend to kill deer-sized game quicker. Over the years I've noticed, for instance, that the 100-grain Partition tends to kill quicker than heavier bullets in .25 caliber rifles, though the 115 is no slouch either in the bigger .25's. Same deal with the 130's and 150's in the .270, 140's and 160's in the 7mm's, and 165's versus 180's and 200's in the .30's.

The same thing applies to the TSX and E-Tips, except more so. Monolithics kill much quicker when they have some zip to 'em.

These days, however, I tend to use more violently expanding bullets for deer-sized game, simply because they kill quicker, especially the Berger VLD and Nosler Ballistic Tip. The Ballistic Tip is a great deer bullet, and many are also good on bigger games, as Flinch noted.

I'm also using more bonded bullets on bigger game, for the same reason. So far my two favorites are the AccuBond and Norma Oryx.

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the AccuBond may be even better than the Partition, since it produces the same big initial crater, but typically retains a larger mushroom, so the rest of the wound channel is wider. It also works very well at a wide variety of velocities, unlike the monolithics. The 250-grain 9.3 AB, for instance, works great at around 2650 fps, whether on big stuff close up or deer-sized game at 300+ yards.

The Oryx, as I've mentioned before, works a lot like the Bitterroot Bonded Core, opening up widely while retaining most of its weight. It makes a big hole, and while it may not penetrate as deeply as a monolithic or Partition, it penetrates plenty.

Mule Deer, my factory 24" barreled .30-06 shot the High Energy at exactly the same as yours (2,940 fps. average). That is amazing that our factory rifles shot identically. I shot them over a couple of different chronographs, because the guys at the range didn't believe the readings I was getting. I don't know why they discontinued it, it was fabulous ammo. With the new plastic tips, it would be even better.

I loaded the .270 loads for my buddies rifles for their elk hunts. The loads were 150 grain partitions coming out of their 22" barrels at 2800 fps average. Definitely not speed demons, but accurate. They were cow hunting and I was playing "guide" since I knew the unit.

We tracked a herd of elk and jumped them in a meadow. Both buddies busted a cow at about 40 yards. One was hit high in the lungs and again in the rump as it crested the hill. I'm glad their was snow, because there was only a few drops of blood. We found the cow about 300 yards away walking around in a tight circle with her head down. We finished her off and that was that.

We recovered the bullet from the rump. The lung hit exited out the off side with a caliber sized exit hole. The bullet we recovered from her rump looked like a wadcutter and only penetrated a few inches, stopping against the pelvic (weird).

The other cow that was hit in the liver, went about 100 yards and laid down. The entrance hole definitely had the 5 inches or so of fast expansion, then the bullet did the wadcutter thing and exited.

The other two bulls (340 bull and a rag horn) were shot with 7mm mag 160 partition and .30-06 165 partition. Both were shot under 200 yards. All the bullets penciled through from entrance to exit.

The .30-06 rag horn was heart shot, no trauma to the heart, just a pencil hole. I shot it again through the shoulder two more times. The holes through the scapula looked like they had been drilled with a bit. No blood shot meat, just neat holes. No blood trail, bull was on his feet for 5 minutes, while I cleared a case head separation (BAD Ruger chamber).

The 7mm mag was lung shot. Bull traveled 200 yards, no blood trail. Again, bullet penciled through the lungs, very little trauma, but he did die Anywho, that has been enough experience for me with partitions. I know guys love them, but I have found ballistic tips and regular Hornady flat base bullets kill SOOO much quicker and have been more predictable. I don't care about exit holes, but I do love LOTS of internal trauma and hydrostatic shock. Flinch

In the Trophy Bonded versus Nosler Partition debate I'm left wondering whether the same animal would die quicker shot with either bullet?

And yes I do expect what make of bullet that works better in a 30'06, and what works better in a 375, probably will not be the same brand bullet.

In my experience, although limited as listed above. The TB kills SOOO much faster with much better tissue destruction. Plus they look cool when recovered Flinch

I have only taken a caribou with the TBBC, have taken numerous animals with the NP. In my experience of 1, the TBBC did a fine job, but did not do the internal damage the NP does. I got the distinct impression when field dressing that the TBBC was a bit harder than the NP.

Flinch,

I have no doubts that what you describe with the Partition is exactly what happened. But in my experience the results weren't normal, though normal doesn't always happen.

I have killed a little over 100 big game animals with Nosler Partitions, and probably seen at least that many shot with Partitions by other people. I have never seen one pencil through without expanding--though I have seen a few expand early on bone, and then not do much damage to the interior organs after that. And once in a while they live longer than they should have.

But generally they either drop or go 50-75 yards and keel over, depending on whether the bullet was small and fast, and whether the animal was small or big. The animals ranged from springbok and pronghorn to moose and Cape buffalo, but the results are almost (not always) in that range.

I think it boils down to what a guy likes. I don't care about exit holes, but when a bullet does exit, I want a "hole", not a pencil hole.

I hunt public land that is often very competitive. I don't want to track or chase animals that are fairly hit. I want them down right now...on the spot. Ballistic tips and Hornadys have given me the DRT results I like. I find them very predictable.

I have had two bull elk, a small buck and a trophy buck taken from me at gun point, due to the critters making the "mad dash" for 75-100 yards before piling up. I knew EXACTLY where I hit the animals and they were dead on their feet. Since a couple of other hunters shot at them while they were making their death run, they figured they hit them. I didn't even know there were other hunters in the area. The shot angles and position of the bullet holes ruled out they hit them, but they were willing to shoot it out for the heads, no matter how I explained it to them.

I just don't get DRT with partitions, but no animal I have hit yet with the ballistic tip has gone more than a step or two. I don't always get exit holes, but have never had to track a ballistic tip hit critter. They aren't for everyone, because everyone rates a bullet differently, but they work for me. The hydrostatic shock and stirred up innards are amazing. Flinch

Personally, I've never not had a Partition deliver substantial internal trauma. I've taken 7 or 8 bull elk with various Partitions. Two that I remember dropped in their tracks with lung shots. Never had one go more than 50 yards.

But I really like Ballistic Tips too...

I thought I gave them a pretty fair shake. I am VERY unlucky though. Flinch

I've been very unlucky with a bunch of stuff I test, especially scopes. Have also had a little bit of bad luck with Barnes TSX's (non-expansion), though when they work, they work great. But my wife and I have switched to either Tipped TSX's or Nosler E-Tips when we want to use a mono bullet in smaller calibers. So far those have all opened up nicely.

But I also try to incorporate the experiences of others in my evaluations, partly because I've had a much higher percentage of scopes fail than some of my friend do, who shoot a lot as well.

However, there ain't no flies on the recent generations of Ballistic Tips, whether we're talking about sudden kills, accuracy or penetration. Which is why I use them more and more often, for a wider variety of game. Have taken a BUNCH of larger than "deer-sized" game with them in the past decade, with zero failures, and a lot of sudden death!

John,
How can that success with the BT be possible? I mean, our resident expert says they don't work!

Amazing, ain't it!

Ditto

If these danged 150 BT's did not shoot such good long range groups from the 7 Rem Mag, I could maybe ignore them....as it is I may try them.

It is all Dober's fault......

And now I gotta listen to the glowing reports....

Bob, I'm there with you. Only have about 500 factory seconds left to shoot up to decide if I like them...

I am getting so sick of those people with experience, that keep posting facts as to how various bullets work in the real world.

Sheeesh you guys, how are the posers supposed to get a word in edgewise.

Great info from btdt crew as usual.

JB: This makes sense,as I have seen it....I spotted a large mule deer at about 500 yards,and dropped down the mountain to get closer....caught him walking out of a draw at about 70 yards,and shot him broadside through the lungs with a 140 NPT started at 3250 from a 7Rem Mag....he took two steps and collapsed.The bullet exited and the off side was a train wreck,all blood shot over a wide area...speed seems to deliver its' own type of trauma

My only Accubond kill was also the biggest bodied muley I have ever killed (a real giant that still holds the unofficial camp record)..it was a 140 from a 7 RM as well,at 3250....this bullet hit the point of the shoulder,went to the opposite side where I found it in the back ribs....the buck reared like a bronco,spun and ran about 15-20 yards, piling up as he went...he blew blood from nose and mouth the whole way.....

Not much to complain about in either instance......

Dober told me to try the 150 BT's and I have put a couple hundred downrange to 600 yards...it has been easy to be impressed with the accuracy...

Same with me when it comes to the X-Type "expanding-monolithic" bullets

Bob,
When I first bought my 7WSM Classic I found it really, really liked the Federal factory 140 grain Accubond. So when MidwayUSA closed them out at under $15/box, I bought about 25 boxes (didn't reload then). Also found that my Montana likes them too.

Maybe I should just quit dicking around with reloading for it and just go kill some critters. BTW I'm getting around 3,280 from that Fed round so it's good to hear of your experience with the 140 AB at that velocity...

I have used both the 180 grain (.308) and 140 grain (.277) Trophy Bonded by federal in Lew of my laziness not have my Nosler reloads by hunting season ...Excellent bullets and excellent results.

But I am a die hard Nosler Partition fan and use the 180(.308) Partition and 130(.277) Partition as my to go bullets in each caliber.If Trophy Bonded were more available and cheaper,I certainly would use them if Nosler went out of business...

Have I seen any difference in performance between the two..Not really but I don't measure wound channels just dead and immediate effect which there both on the same trail.

Jayco

seems like you were fortunate to find a factory load that works so well. now you have more free time to focus on your other guns and loads
smile and be happy

Marty the 140 AB is a very accurate bullet...that barrel I talked about was a long dead Douglas. My present 7RM does about 3200 with the 140 AB and 68 RL22;also shoots really well.

As stated,that is the only AB I have ever used on an animal.Mostly I shoot the Partition