Most products have the good news, bad news syndrome.
I just have never heard about the down side to X bullets if there is one?
If they are accurate in our rifle, is there any reason not to use them for hunting?
Are they sensitive to point of impact changes between hot/cold weather? Anything?

the issues with x bullets are, they are longer in any given wieght than bullets with lead and can cause higher pressure. with that in mind, you should start with moderate loads and then work up. the longer bullets have more surface to engage the lands and cause more drag. I have also heard that they foul barrels more quickly but that may have changed.

if i remember right here is what is "wrong" with them:

longer for their wieght than copper and lead bullets which creates a longer bearing surface which means higher pressures do to friction hence the reason for them coming up with the triple shocks

erratic accuracy, some rifles love them some hate them. course any bullet can suffer from this. ive heard rifles tend to be less picky with the triple shocks.

heard about fouling problems but i think this prolly varys from rifle to rifle

have to be above a certain velocity to open up but this is true for alot of premium bullets. under 350 yards or so prolly not an issue for any normal cartrige. some like the 250 Sav, you might have to limit range for reliable performance.

this is all i know of. no big deal just be aware of the pressure part when you reload and thats about the only major thing. if your rilfe likes them they are an excellent bullet for hunting.

Rattler

My rifles are of unanimous thought regarding the X bullets. Woefully inaccurate. Not so with others guns, but after the third failure a several boxes of dust gathering bullets, I shall buy no more. I may get around to the TSX one of these days though. I'm waiting patiently thought for the day somebody tames tungsten...

They foul too much.
They won't shoot in most rifles.
They cost too much.
They pencil through game.
The petals fall off.
Barnes keeps changing the ogives.
The reloading data is bad.
They won't open up at slow speeds.
They're too hard for anything smaller than Elk.
They're too long to stabilize in some twists.
They push pressures too high.
They're too sensitive to seating depth.

Did I miss anything?

BTW, I love the things.

1 They foul too much - That is why I moly coat them

2 They wont shoot in most rifles - I have used/am using them in 25/06 (Browning "A" bolt), 270 Weatherby, 300WinMag (2 different barrels), 348 WCF (M71 Win) & 338 Rem Ultra mag and they work just fine, Kinda OK in US KRAG 30/40 & 1917 Enfield 30/06 Tho' I did not get really carried away with testing in last two

3 They cost too much - Definately not a "plinking" bullet but on a once in a lifetime hunt ?

4 They pencil through game - What game, what range, where animal hit, how many ??

5 The petals fall off - sometimes depending on impact velocity, toughness of what is hit, still retain over 65% weight.

6 Barnes keeps changing ogives - Have to take your word on this one

7 Reloading data is bad - which manual, which caliber ? I haven't noticed however most of my load developement is with the NECO "Quickload" program. [just make sure you know what you are doing before going this route]. Me? = 40+ years & still learning

8 Wont open up at slow speeds - don't know about this one, however the 348 is certainly no speed ball

9 Too hard for anything smaller than elk - Depends on weight, same as any other type

10 Too long to stabilize with some twists - Again same as any other, twist & velocity are related to a degree, too little speed & too slow velocity, go lighter bullet weight, which will give shorter length

11 They push pressure too high - Check load data, same as any other type also.

12 they are too sensitive to seating depth - Barnes recommends .005 of the lands, has most always worked for me. Like any other type seating depth is a variable that needs to be worked with for maximum accuracy



Try 'em if you think you might like them. Many Professional guides & PH's swear by them

my 6 mm rem loves the 85 grainers. two antelope and two mule deer with 4 shots. none ran more than 20 yds. My 350 rem and 35 Whelen hate them. might as well shoot them out of a slingshot.

Too funny.

I sorta like them myself...................

Gotta say I don't own a single barrel that can't like them.

That'd be a few barrels...................(grin)

StrayDog,

There were learning curves for Barnes in producing the X-Bullet, and other learning curves for shooters who didn't know a new bullet needed new and different loading procedures.

These monolithic copper bullets or brass bullets do not behave the same in the barrel as our familiar gilding metal clad lead bullets. I have a friend who tests a lot of bullets for Barnes. I understand he discovered that you need to be thinking not of bullet jumps of a few thousandths, but jumps of 50 or even over 100 thousandths. Apparently the X-Bullet needs the effective freebore gained to keep pressure in line.

The material the bullets are made from is different. Barnes even developed and now sells its own bore cleaner to remove the residue from its bullets from our barrels.

Barnes came along with a bullet coating developed for racing car engines (the blue "stuff"). I don't know what you need to clean that stuff out.

Most recently Barnes is following the lead of Nosler with the Zipedo, GS and North Fork by putting grooves on their bare metal design, and that seems to help accuracy and pressure. I haven't tried any myself though.

If you haven't tried them, give the North Fork bullets a try. Using lead in combination with a mostly-monolithic design seems to make it easier to get a bullet that performs.
jim

The North Fork website didn't show anything smaller than .277 and I am looking at .264. My 6.5/06 likes the 130 grain TS"X" bullets and they are ribbed like the North Forks. This is the only style of X have shot, but the bore cleaned up as quickly as when I shot Hornady's.
I am still on my first box, just trying to decide to hunt Wyoming mulies with them.

I GOTTA write a book on dispelling X Misconceptions.

It ain't hard.

Start 'em kissing(or close),use a high load density and punch a tag.................

With the mixed reports we are hearing about the Hornady SST which I am already zeroed for etc. I am thinking of switching over to the TSX, I am just one of those guys that likes the bullet to punch all the way through, and I'm having doubts about the SST to be able to do that consistently.

Charlie,
That was very much tongue in cheek. I shoot the hell out of them in most every big game chambering I load for.

BTW, as a matter of fact, Barnes recommends .050 off, not .005. I tend to load them closer to .005 though.

If you've never used them then go straight to the Barnes TSX line. They are very forgiving and quite accurate.

'Dog,

I can only offer what I've seen,done,did,do.

Launch an X and punch the tag. Dat's it.

I'm not much into making things difficult and that path is the only one of interest to me.

Your mileage may vary.........................

SD,
An SST and and X are not even in the same category. I wouldn't shoot an SSt at anything larger than a coyote. Been there, done that, and I didn't like what I saw.

Stick,
I don't know about you, but I've found that if you can load straight ammo, you can get X's to shoot. .005 or more runout seems to mean more to a solid bullet than a jacketed one, and X loads exhibiting under .003 or so can be mighty fine shooters.

Thanks for the peace of mind guys! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I was leaning toward the TSX but was a little nervous, wanting to hear positive things from people with experience.

I'm running the TSX bullets in my 308 & 22-250. They are scary accurate and don't foul. Course I Moly 'em but that's a different subject. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I treat an X like a "conventional" and all shoot in accordance to the given platform's inherent ability.

Some rub chicken feet on their barrels,scrub every third shot and subsrcibe to various other quirks of similar ilk.

I just load and shoot. That is the depth of my concerns and I find that sound results both come easily and are predictable.

Mebbe I'm doing it ALL wrong?!!?.....................

I'll share the moly limb with you...............

I really hate em.
I like to see the deer fall after I shoot. About half of the 20 whitetails and mule deer I've shot so far with 53 grain X's out of my .22 Cheetah - fell too fast for me to witness the fall. The others ran less than 10 yards. Darn those lousy, over-priced, fouling, innacurate, pencilling through, multi-ogived bullets anyways! I hate them so much!

Anybody know where one can get the Triple Shocks in .423? Thanks. "D"

It's not rocket science guys. I've never had a problem with an X not opening up, but if you're worried about it or like to see 'em drop on the spot, then break bone with them. It's that simple. Put an X of whatever flavor you like through a shoulder and it's down. They aren't going to pencil through when they hit bone!

Agree with Cheaha. If you don't already have loads, go straight to the TSX. Niiiiiiiiice!

I've loaded them in 2 30-06's, a .270, a 300WSM, a 300WM, 2 7RM's.

Once I figured out how to load them, with proper seating depth, they are amzingly accurate. Often I get groups with 2 or 3 holes touching.

They knock the hell out of everything I have shot or seen shot with them, as long as shot placement was correct.

This includes 1 grizzly (7RM) 1 wolf (300WSM) 2 black bears (30-06, 7RM) and 2 deer (7RM)

I jsut wish I had started using them earlier. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Gatehouse,

Typically, what seating depths have you found to be effective?

Are there general depth areas that you have found that Barnes bullets like?

TIA

Straydog--

Most of the negative comments you've read apply only to the "standard" Barnes X, and even then I would take them with a grain of salt. The X bullet has been improved vastly over the past decade, and these days I expect usable to excellent accuracy even out of the standard, "naked" X without much load workup.

They don't apply much at all to the Triple Shock X. Have now tried this bullet in maybe a dozen rifles, and accuracy ranged from 1" on DOWN. In many barrels it equals Nosler Ballistic Tip or Sierra accuracy.

Fouling is no more than with other bullets, often less.

Any of the new generation X's open up reliably at velocities as low as any expanding spitzer on the market, except the plastic tips, at least down to 1900-2000 fps. It shot a pronghorn at nearly 400 yards with a 6.5x55 a couple years ago, and the velocity with the 120-X was down to under 2000 fps. The shot went right behind the shoulder and the pronghorn backed up 15 feet before tipping over. LOTS of damage.

It will also punch a nice big hole through anything you care to shoot, without destroying as much meat as any lead-cored bullet I am acquainted with, and that is most of 'em.

I have some 130 TSX's just waiting to be loaded in my .264 Winchester Magnum, and I would be happy to hunt anything in North American other than brown bear with that combo. Would also be happy using it on smaller, edible stuff like doe whitetails or pronghorns.

MD

Thats good to know info. Good luck with your .264 mag. project.

I have only shot game animals with standard X bullets. The problem? They kill so fast you never have time to even attempt CPR when you realize you shot the wrong one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have not recovered many except in cases when I have shot really heavy parts of animals (like breaking heavy bone - several inches of spine, etc) or doubling on animals. I have seen just two bullets ever "pencil" and I recovered both. They were both shot a bit farther than too far. The mistake was mine in those cases, not the fault of the bullets.

They don't shoot as well as some other bullets sometimes and they don't usually seem to like the same pet loads that work with cup and core bullets but they can be made to shoot very adequately. From field positions I don't think I could tell the difference between X or other bullets in accuracy.

I like to start em off kissing the lands but your barrel will tell you what it likes...

Cheaha,

Both a pard and I have tried that . No workee.

I have tried 50 off and 60 off. Better but still not what I think it's capable of.

Trying 40 off tomorrow and we'll see how it works.

Just load up a few 3 shot loads @ 40 off, 30 off, 20 off, etc...

Your barrel will tell you what it likes...

Best I can remember without looking at my load notes, the 308 is 60 off and the 22-250 is 30 off. It just takes a little time and a few bullets to check it out. Good luck

Westman

It's abit different in each rifle that I have used. All of these rifles were factory stock at the time...

Barnes reccomends .050 off the lands, and pretty close to that has worked for me, but getting them closer works too.

The way I generally work up a load is to increase the powder charge a grain at a time, until they start grouping togehter, and then pick 3 loads nearest to each other.

Then I shoot 3 of them each to see what kinds of groups I get.

Then I choose the best and fiddle with the seating depth.

If your ammo is straight, I usally get good groups soon enough. To be honest, it usually takes me about 25 or 30 X bullets to find the load, then I just load up about 50 of them, and that is good for a few years, including sigthing in and hunting shots taken.

I generally have a "heavy" (X bullet) and a "light (Accubond, now) and a "practice" (often Hornady becasue they are so cheap, but good killers nonetheless) load for each rifle.

I'm done with having 20 different loads per rifle...I just use the 3.

Howver, I am going to try the 168gr TSX when I get my 300WSM back from the gunsmith. I think that it will cover the "heavy" and the "light" loads, and I jsut need the "practice" load to be extra! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

How do the .22 caliber X's perform? I just got some for my 22-250, but haven't pulled the trigger on anything but paper? Pat

One of the last articles the late, great, Finn Aagaard wrote was on the use of premium 22's on game. The X was the best of them, but, in his opinion, still did not provide the kind of damage he would like to see in a deer round.

I have some 53 gr. XLC's loaded up for my WSSM (at 3900), but no mulie has stepped out to volunteer for an evalaluation, yet. HTH, Dutch.

I used the original X when it first came out and refused to buy anymore based on the accuracy issue. I have since tried the TSX and have worked up loads that are equal to or better than Sierra Matchkings (1/2moa)

Regarding playing with overall length I used three shot groups ranging from .020 to .060 off of the lands and shot a 15 round composite group that measured .82" at 100. Using the recommended sweet spot of .050 fit my magazines perfectly and is consistently at or kissing 1/2moa. This rifle has never hit 1 moa with any factory load and would only do slightly better the matchkings before.