My son has a very good chance of getting drawn for moose this year. He is 14, has 3 deer under his belt, all with his ,243.
He has also shot my 6.5x55, but not my 30.06

If he were to get drawn, and decided to use his .243, which premium bullet would you recommend?

Barnes

+1..rock on....

Not sure if this is a trick question or your a troll. Your son is old enough to learn how to shoot your 06.

If he doesnt have any problem w/ it, Id load him up some 160 gn. Woodleighs for that Swede, its a classic Moose caliber, any of the three You mentioned will work but, ID fire up that little Swede and let her eat.

Gunner

Vat caliber do you suppose does Swede's shoot their mooses wif?

Moose are hardly immune to 6mm projectiles. I have even done it with C&C bullets... Though that would never be my choice again.

Not a trick at all Ed. He is a bit small for his age, and a bit recoil shy, hence why I haven't pushed the 30.06 on him.
I'll be having him shoot it this summer, but he may find it a bit much. Hence the question.

..........At 14, he`s old enough to get started with the 30-06.

For moose, a 30-06 is a far more desirable choice than a 243.

I hear ya......my thoughts as well. But if he shoots the 30.06, and it scares the crap outta him, need a backup plan.
He does shoot the 6.5x55 well, so that is another better otion as well. Lord knows the .303 will do it, has done it. I have one of those as an option as well.

Skatchewan...........Just read your last post. The 30-06 can be loaded down if your son is a little recoil shy.

Still, either the 6.5 or the `06 is a better choice for moose.

But of course, 9mm, 9.3,and 6.5, LOL

Gunner

edit: spelling

I agree with you 100%. Not saying a 243win is not capable in the hands of a experience shooter. But a 30-06 would be a better choice for better sectional density and bullet retension.

If he can shoot the 6.5x55, there's no need for any more talk about the 243 for moose. The only question will be if he can handle the 30-06, which would be better yet.

I'll wager the 6.5 kills more moose every year than any other single round.

Use the Swede and have no worries.

There is NO set age where any human can handle a .30-06. I've known a bunch of adult he-men who can't shoot it well.

If you have any doubts about the .243, load some good 120-130 grain bullets in the 6.5x55, whether Nosler Partition, Barnes Tipped TSX, or whatever. 2700-2800 fps will do fine, and not kick much more than the .243.

There's no need to use heavy bullets in the 6.5x55 if you're using premium bullets. All they heavy bullets will do is kick more.

85gr TSX in that .243, or else a 130gr TTSX in the Swede.

I always get into trouble on the .243/big game posts. Here in KS whitetails come a little larger than in some areas of the country. Our season is in Dec and it is cold. Our deer camp is a wood heated shed with fridges and cookers. Anywhere from 6 to 20 folks for lunch and dinner. It's a bummer to be sitting after dark and having munchies and cold drinks, when someone comes in with a tracking job. Stuff happens and folks bite the bullet and volunteer. But this happens more with the .24 calibers, (smallest legal), than all the other cartridges used.

My 11 yr old granddaughter hunted one year with a .243 and moved up to a .250Sav the next year. Good luck. I am sure I will hear about this post.

Use the 6.5X55 with a good 120 to 140g. Have him practice. Yes a 243 can kill a moose if everything is just right, but given your options it is not the one I would pick. I don't think that the Swede will kick that much more than a 243 with 100 or 105g. At least to me they don't. It will be much less recoil than the 30.06 or the 303. The 6.5X55 is proven hundreds of times ever year on moose. My daughter loves my 6.5X57, she picked it over the wifes older 243 winchester.

130gr TSX in the Swede is your answer.

Another vote for the Swede/Barnes combo.

Thanks John, I have some 130 gr Accubonds that will go into the swede if he uses it.

The swede/Barnes cobo is a gooder for sure, but I have accubonds, so they will get the nod if he uses it.

Not that you need it, but count me as giving another vote for the 6.5 x 55 Swede.

After personally helping to skin and butcher at least 25 moose killed with this calibre, and I had to raise my opinion of it. It is certainly not the minimum moose calibre, but you can "see it from here" -- I would not like to go much smaller (and with the mild recoil of a 130gr bullet in the Swede, you really do not HAVE to go smaller).

Cheers from Sweden,

John

140gr Accubonds

You and me both smell a turd in the roses. Everytime a post like this comes up I think someone is "messing with Sasquatch". Who knows common sense may prevail, eventually.

You need to hole both lungs. The Moose will then smother in about 30-90 seconds. I use a 358 Norma as my moose gun, unless I shoot the shoulder bone a two lunged moose will generally take the short side of 30-90 seconds to know it's dead...even with 4000 ft pounds on target. My wife uses a 6mm Rem Model 600. With 100 Nosler Partitions or 115 Barnes originals it works pretty well out to about 150 yards taking maybe on the long side of 30-90 seconds to let the life out of a big bull. We are very confident using it within it's limitations.

A 260 would no doubt be a better minimum but the 6 is what we have and it works with some application of discipline. Not sure it's what a beginner should use though.

If I were close and had a Barnes, Partition in 95/100, or 95 Ballistic tip, I'd punch the lungs broadside w/a 243.

That said, I would likely choose a 6.5x55 or 260 as I love 6.5s and the low recoil allows great shot placement.

130 Accubonds will kill a Moose fine but I would shoot broadside lungs and not drive thru bone if at all possible. A Barnes, I would use from any angle if need be, but avoid a hind end shot.

I believe the recoil in a Swede or 260 is only a few lbs more than a 243. One can load 'lite loads' for a teen to practice, and you can check zero with your 'hunting load' and when he squeezes the trigger w/o flinching, he will only need one good hit.

I would get the kid used to shooting lite loads and let him fire a few full power loads to have confidence. A 6.5 won't beat him up like an '06 and w/a 130 its a little shy of recoil vs a mild factory 270 130gr load.

Good hunting.

It took till page two for someone to say this? Voice in the wilderness, John.

Age has nothing to do with whether or not a certain caliber can be "handled" (John's hearing an echo now). A ten year-old neighbor kid shot my Siamese Mauser .45-70 (loaded to extreme) better than I ever did. On the other hand, at the age of 14, I was four foot eleven, weighed 85lbs, was indoctrinated into highpowers at the age of 10 (like a lot of unfortunate kids) with a curved-steel buttplate '94 .30-30. No gun has ever hurt more.

I manage to do pretty well now (at 6foot one,190) with the big stuff, but it is always a phsycological effort, and when there is an easier choice, I go for it. Big guys with big guns are always putting the touch on me before hunting season to use my range, and more often than not they shoot them rather miserably on the paper (but cannot bring themselves to admit misery when the trigger is pulled).

The ten year old that simply thrived on recoil (and still does)? He's now 16, 6foot, 220. His personal rifle that he can clean clocks with against big guys/big guns is a Swede Carbine. I make sure he's around when the Magnumbs come to visit. He shoots their rifles better than they do, and shoots his 6.5 better than any of us with anything.

Let me start by saying that I spend a lot more time on ballistics than I do on hunting. So this is more what the pencil and paper numbers indicate than something based on vast experience:

I think a lot of guys get into trouble with the 243 by using lighter bullets at high velocity. If a garden variety bullet impacts at more than 2800 FPS, the penetration will be less than it would at lower speed. More speed = less penetration. With a premium bullet, the story is a little different.

So if you pick the 243, I'd say go for as heavy a premium bullet as you can manage, and load it for perhaps 2750 FPS. Personally, I favor the Partition or the AccuBond. If you avoid a strike on a major bone, you'll get about a 16" wound channel and a dead moose/elk/deer. So I'm not opposed to a 243 with the right load.

All that said, I love my 6.5x55s and that would be my first choice. 140 grains of garden variety bullet at 2700 FPS is going to be pretty mild and very effective.

Tahnka,

Good post!

I developed a miserable flinch by the time I was 14, even though I'd been a pretty good shot with a BB gun and .22 from a fairly young age. The rifles that did it to me weren't even as powerful as the .30-06: a 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagant and a Savage 99 .308. It took me until age 20 to get rid of the damn flinch, and the rifle that did it was a Remington 700 BLD .243 Winchester.

A lot of shooting with the .243 (including 17 big game animals) got me to the place where I could start working my way back up the ladder again. Now I can shoot some darn big guns pretty well, but also have acquired enough experience to know they're not necessary for 99% of the big game hunting in the world, having taken quite a few animals bigger than deer with cartridges like the 7x57.

I also never had any trouble killing deer of any size with the .243--or .250 Savage or .257 Roberts, which are pretty much the same thing. Every time I hear stories about the inadequacy of the .243 as a deer cartridge these days I tend to assume that something other than the cartridge was the problem.

You assumed right IMO. A .243win is an awesome round for med size game in the right hands. Honestly....Ive lost count on how many Whitetails Ive killed with a .243.

Mule Deer,



Thank you!!!

actually, my youngest is now 15, large for his age, and handles all of my rifles well... he's got the common sense to say so when a rifles recoil bugs him, and i hope he never gets over that!!! he shoots them all but only when he wants to... we keep it fun, and he usually wants to....

of all my rifles, he has done his best field shooting with the Savage 99 .300, the model 70 .243, and the H&R L461 .222...

IMO, no teen hunter (or any 40 year olds either) should use any particular rifle to live up to another's expectations... what a miserable way to go about hunting...

Kudos to you for your straight shooting wisdom...

In North America, well into the 1970s, people were using non-magnum cartridges for just about everything.

WRT moose, most guys used 30-30s or 303s where I lived. I still use a 303 almost every year, but have carried others like the 30-30 for example, and wasn't undergunned.

There were also 243s, 308s, 30-06s, 35 Rems and milsurp 6.5x55mms in our moose camps. A friend of the family only owned one rifle - a Savage 340 chambered in 30-30 - and used it for everything. He never lost an animal to poor performance. That was back in the days when a fellow dropped by the store, bought a box of Remington Core Lokts and went hunting.

Things started changing up here in the late 1970s/early 1980s. More southern hunters appeared carrying different cartridges, and a new crop of magnums was on the horizon. Go into a store in northern Ontario anyway, and you'll find 243 & 308 Win, 30-06, 303, 30-30, and 7mm and 300 Win Mag boxes. Not much else.

The Internets mantra is that 243s are okay for women and kids, but should be abandoned as quickly as possible. "The experts" say that this cartridge just isn't up to the job. My question has always been,

"If the 243 is no good, why are you putting a so-so performer in the hands of a new, inexperienced shooter? By your own admission, aren't you dooming them to fail?"

My two cents. Load up a 100 gr. Partition and have at her.

"If the 243 is no good, why are you putting a so-so performer in the hands of a new, inexperienced shooter? By your own admission, aren't you dooming them to fail?"

I think the idea for introducing young inexperienced hunters to hunting/shooting, is to get them off to a low recoil/blast start - to avoid the flinch, and focus on accuracy and shot placement. A 243 esp. for non handloaders is a good option.

ANY rifle given to a new/inexperienced shooter is prone to failure no matter the power of the round - if proper practice and education on shot placement inc. from field positions and from different angles the game presents.

Looking at say Texas Trophy hunting magazine and all the pics in the back where youngsters start out killing deer with anything from 22 Hornets to 222s and 223s should answer the above question.

Those kids were trained well and practiced.

Shot placement is not everything, but it can usually overcome most anything, even bad bullet choices. Hit a moose in the eye with a 223 or 243 and see what happens, even if you use a varmint bullet

The biggest problem with a 243 is poor shooters, inc. grown men. The biggest reason it's not used more is:

A) Many grown men feel the need for more power - for their ego's

B) It's killing effectiveness is often underestimated or has been misunderstood due to poor bullet choice and/or placement.

Having dropped deer with even 70gr TNTs when that was what was in my 6BR or 243 died just fine b/c I knew I had to shoot a vital not needing alot of penetration, so I nearly decapitated one deer and another I just perforated the lungs. They were jelly!

As Stoney said, 243 is plenty for deer and used properly can take larger game. I believe Steelhead/Scott or someone posted about a 243/85 TSX combo taking black bear w/solid results.

I seem to recall native's up north using 22 Hornets and small 22s like 222 or 223 for Polar bear and other very large game, to good effect. I am not advocating, just presenting what has been done.

I believe Poor shot placement above all is the biggest cause for lost or wounded game - regardless of caliber/cartridge.

Seen it done. Don't care to see it repeated.

If he handled the 243 well I let him light the torch on Marvin the Moose in a heart beat. I know of more than one moose taken out via a 22/250 or Swift so a 243 will be more than enough.

85 TSX, 95 Noz, or 100 Horn would be fine with me.

Take plenty of pics! And enjoy the great opportunity to hunt with your son.

Dober

When I lived in Nunavut for a decade my wife and I took up to 10 caribou a year + being on friends hunts. Numbers pile up. Although caribou are pretty easy to kill I had the chance to look at wound channels from caliber 223 to .458 at all different velocity levels.

A friend had a 788 carbine in 243 that got about 2750fps with 100 grain factory ammo. Due to the reduced velocity that little bugger penetrated like crazy and killed very well. When we found the carbine 600 in 6mm we snapped it up. I loaded up some Barnes 115 grain RN Originals at the same 2750 fps. Again it penetrated like crazy and has been a good killer on everything we aimed it at in the NWT and Nunavut at up to 200 yards.

When Barnes discontinued the 115 grains I tested a bunch of bullets. The 100 grain Nosler partitions at 2900-3000fps penetrate just as well as the heavier Barnes and if anything kill stuff a bit faster. As a bonus the semi-spitzer version shoots into 3/4" groups.

It's not the best designated moose gun but it works if you are a calm game shot. Honestly the margin of error is no doubt less than say, my 358 Norma but even with the big Norma you better hit lung. Another bonus is that from my canoe I am less likely to be kicked out of the boat.

That being said if I had the money I'd buy your son a Savage ultralight in 260 or 6.5 Creedmore and he'd never need another gun in NA.

I have somewhere a gun digest with a report on the 220 swift.when it was new it was tested in alaska and a hunter killed about everything there with it with no problems, think of what bullets were avaible then. but that was a hunter not merly a target shooter and he knew where to shoot the animals for optium results. we have few hunters in the same catagory and feel they have to blow something in two for a quick kill.JMTCW

For some reason, I'm reminded of the guy that is just a fair upland game shot with a 12ga, starting his kid hunting with a "dandy little .410".

John,

What are the chances that a marginally placed shot hitting a rib bone would deflect more with the 243 than the 6.5X55 and thereby causing a real problem?

Do better bullets nowadays reduce this possibility?

I wouldn't hesitate on a rib shot with a good bullet from a .243. I've seen the 100-grain Nosler Partition go through both shoulders and the spine of a big whitetail--and exit. That's a lot more bone than a moose rib.

That said, the 6.5x55 is definitely a moose cartridge.

Thanks

My big game experience with a 243 dates back to 1959-1962, and I had less than stellar results, probably due to vastly inferior bullets. I haven't owned a 243 since 1963 as a result.

My grandson is only a few years away from needing a rifle. I'll probably find him a 257 Roberts, mostly because I am a stubborn reactionary.

load your 6.5x55 with a Nosler 140 gr PT and kill moose. That load is mild manered and recoil shouldn't be a problem.

JD338

I find it interesting the biggest naysayers are from Alabama and California. Now I could be wrong and they could have just moved from a heavily moose populated state or are well off and have shot multiple moose on many guided hunts. Even so most trophy hunters aren't going to use something like a 243 so they wouldn't know how it would work in the first place. I would listen to the guys (Alaska, Canada, Sweden) that have a chance to shoot moose yearly and for the meat not just the horns.

I personally only know of one lady who used a 243 and 100 grain partition to shoot her moose. It happened to be the same moose she had shot in archery season but the arrow didn't penetrate the shoulder blade. The partition did though.

I think like has been stated the 6.5 would be a better choice and is a classic moose slayer without much more recoil. Or get some managed recoil loads from remington (I think) if you don't handload for the '06 and if you really don't feel comfortable with either the 243 or 6.5. That said I think with some heavy premium bullets in the 243 and a good shot through the lungs you will have your work cut out for you packing.

To answer your question, my first choice would be the 80 gr. Barnes TTSX.

One point I haven't seen mentioned would be fit. Unless you are one of the "little people" the LOP on your 30-06 would or should eliminate it from consideration.

My Dad was a big man and the LOP on his .308 was about 14.5". When I was fourteen I borrowed his rifle but never shot it well, not because of recoil but because it was about 1.5" too long for me.

Likely in moose season he will be wearing more than a tee shirt and LOP would be among my greatest concerns. If the 6.5 is too long for him and you are unwilling to bob the stock then I would be choosing a good bullet for the .243.

Boy or man, no one shoots well a rifle that duzzint fit.

1flier

John's experience with the .243 as his "remedy" gun for early-onset flinchitis mirrors mine, but my medicine to get better was a '99 .250 Savage.

Since Dad didn't handload when I was a little guy, he'd just buy shells for the punishing curved steel plate .30-30 wherever he found them: second-hand stores, "bargain bins" at the gun shop, etc. I don't remember ever seeing a new box of shells. Problem was, I don't remember ever seeing any 150g bullets, either. Always the 170's. More punishment.

The gun was old enough that along with the curved steel buttplate and 170 grain shells, it had a comb that was sort of flattened on top ('94 guys will know what I am talking about) with rather sharp corners precisely where I'd put my unfleshy cheekbone. More punishment.

I would so look forward to "sighting in day" and shoot that gun till my shoulder literally turned black, and I fought the tears so Dad wouldn't see. He must have known something, for on a couple of occasions, he'd fold up a buckskin glove off the dashboard of the '49 Chevy, and stuff it under my shirt on my shoulder (an ersatz "Past Pad" of the day for the dirt-poor).

Dad "helped" me buy a '99 .250 when I was 15. That gun taught me that highpowered rifles can actually shoot as precisely as my Winchester 67 .22, that they don't have to kick, and that everything I shot at died very quickly, even at the completely foolish and abhorrent ranges that 15 year olds try. Gradually, it reduced dramatically my flinching (but never completely: flinching is like malaria--you have recurring episodes and never have control of when they might erupt).

And, being 15, I fell helplessly, hopelessly, and endlessly in love with the .250 Savage.

You never forget the first one that treated you very nice.

85 gr. Barnes TSX
80 gr Barnes TTSX
90 gr Nosler AB
90 gr Swift SCII

Not necessarily in that order, but whichever shot the best out of his rifle. Being that the vitals of a good moose are about the size of 1/2 sheet of ply wood (joking), I'd not get to dogmatic over micro sizing the groups though and would start with the selection from Barnes first.

I'd also get a hold of some large pieces of scrap cardboard and make a full size "Cardboard Moose" and a can of flat black spray paint. He could use that for a target which would force him to "Pick-A-Spot" and at different shot angles.
..................................

You didn't ask, but I too vote for the 6.5x55 Swed using the bullet pictured on page #2 of this thread.

I'd load light to begin with and have him shoot "Fun" targets (water balloons, water jugs, the cardboard moose, etc) away from the bench. (use lightweight inexpensive bullets to start with)

When he was ready, you could load it a "little" hotter and continue at "his" pace. Don't rush it, even a good starting load with that aforementioned bullet will serve him well. I'm sure that if you are disciplined and don't rush it he will eventually be shooting top loads.

Always encourage his shooting ability and shot placement on the targets while giving little attention to the fact that he is shooting a "bigger" gun (a little psychological mind game to keep him focused on the target and NOT the recoil).

You could use any of those three choices with your son and not be disappointed I believe. The tack I would take is to load the lighter cartridges right up where they are intended to run, or load the '06 with something a bit light (150 grains) and back off a bit to middle range loads with TSX, GMX, or Etip bullets. If your son is a bit on the light side, I think I'd let the rifle help decide which one matches his needs most - perhaps it doesn't matter- and then let him shoot plenty of practice with lighter loadings. A lot of younger and/or less experienced shooters suffer from recoil noise as much as the impulse effect.

About this time last year I was working on preparing my nine-year-old for potentially hunting moose. I had Ruger #1-B which I hoped would work and had some GMX loads ready. However, even with a shortened buttstock, that rifle was a bit too much for him to handle well - except on the bench. So I decided to let him try a Ruger #1-A in 270. We swapped the shortened butt over and gt him shooting 100 grainers until he was comfortable. I began to throw 140s loaded light next. I loaded a few A-Frames a bit heavier for hunting, made sure the rifle shot where it had at "moose distance" with the heavier loads, and we went hunting. It worked for us when he bagged a nice bull two weeks after his ten year birthday.

Then don't put the boy behind it now. He'll let you know when he's ready. Just have him put one of the good bullets suggested above, in the right place.

My wife shot her first moose with a 243 in a NEF single shot with a 90 grain Barnes X bullet and H414 powder. It didn't drop at the shot, and often they don't.



She wanted more gun for her next one, and she stole my 30-06 and we had the stock shortened to fit her.



An uncle in BC has a couple daughters, a wife and some daughters in law, and they all use the 243 for moose, and very effectively, BUT,

. . . . . . if your son shoots the Swede well, that is a much better option than the 243. Lots of moose get killed with the 6.5 X 55 around these parts. I might go with a 140 grainer.

Out of all the posts only two people have shot moose with a
243, they seemed to do OK.

Let me help you a bit with your assumption...



The 223 has also worked quite well at times, but that doesn't mean it's something I'd encourage. It's really not much fun to try to sort out the brown forms for a second shot when you've just shot one out of several, and they decide to move out. Perhaps it's just when and where we hunt, but we often see them in pairs, or better, nearly as often as alone. Moose can be stout obstacles for even the best bullets and better suited calibers. Focus on making a well-prepared shooter, and you won't be disappointed.

Let me be the first You are blaming the cartridge for poor shooting and poor bullet selection. I think it would be wise to educate your fellow room mates as too what bullets they should be shooting in their .243's and to actually PRACTICE shooting their .243's.

I can't even count how many deer my family has killed with the .243. NOTHING gets away, no tracking, dead right there. All we have shot are 100 grain Hornady flat base spire points. Some of the hits weren't perfect, but the deer (many large bucks) were dead in their tracks.

I would be willing to bet that your "gang" aren't even sighting in their rifles with their hunting ammo or they are hunting with varmint bullets. Put the .243 in the hands of ANYONE that can shoot worth two short hoots and even the biggest animals die very quickly. The cartridge isn't the problem in your camp Flinch

Here's some perspective: an 85TSX from a 243 will outpenetrate a 180Corelokt from a 30-06.

Load some Barnes in the 243 and go hunting.

243 for deer is just fine. 243 for moose is just a poor idea. There are so many better choices, they would be hard to count.... and that is only the lower recoil rounds.
Comparing an 243cal 85gr TSX against a 30 cal 180gr CL, in the hand of a kid without great deal of experience, etc., simply does not hold water in large game hunting.

So far, there has been lots of proof that the premium bullets in the 243 kill Moose just fine, and NO proof that they don't.

Many opinions here on the subject of "cartridges," and some good suggestions have been offered.

However, I believe that the OP's question was more about "Bullet" choice (not cartridge suggestions). "If he were drawn, and decided to use his 243, which premium bullet would you recommend..?"

I have to ask "Why" it (concerning this idea that the kid shooting an already familiar rifle, that he has confidence in, as well as having already taken 3 deer with) doesn't hold water when the bullet he could use will out penetrate the "bigger" caliber's bullet.?

I'd also dare say that the 14 year old knows something about shot placement, which would make the 243 with the 85 TSX/80 TTSX stone cold deadly when shoved into the vitals of a Moose. And a lot easier to do when he's not afraid of the gun and flinching with fear when the hammer falls. It's already been stated, he is recoil sensitive.

There is a pic of a very DEAD moose at the top of page #6 that was killed with a 90 grain X bullet. As well as testimony as many others who have used and still use the 243 with good bullets to successfully take Moose.

I've seen more than a couple dead Moose, seen others kill them, and killed a few myself. No, I don't use a 243, but if that was my level of comfort, I dang sure would.

Again. Lots of proof here that the 243 works with a quality bullet, and not any proof that it doesn't.

Then you havent done very many post mortems on the heels of an 85 Gr .TSX....

What gets me is how all the experience of keyboard hunting experts say you can't get a lot of things down with smaller calibers...

and then you have guys who live in places like Montana, or Rural BC, Alaska, Wyoming etc...who spend a lot of time hunting and their experiences seem to contradict, what the keyboard hunting experts present...

who'd of figured that?

Its kinda like Ive discussed some some visitors from back east...its not that we are on the High Horse or anything, we have half a dozen easily huntable species of Big Game Here, less people doing it and just plain more opportunities for trigger time. There are good seasons when we are fortunate enough to get in more experience that many guys back east get in a decade.
If you are a rifle loony, and living here, you try to maximize that potential...

Which means we aren't in awe of game bigger than deer, knowing that they'll still fall over quickly if we shoot them in the right place.

Until its time to start cutting the bastids up and packing them out!

Especially after we turn into Old Farts....

Dat's when Dinks start lookin' better and better.....

Lots of moose in Upsate New York?
As most others with experience have stated, load the .243 with a good, heavy bullet, and go kill with it. I have seen plenty of moose and elk dumped on their sides with .243's, no problems. Put bullets where they are supposed to go, and stuff dies, end of story.

R.

No comment.....


R.

I would would say that a 30-30, 35rem, or 44 mag would all be better with the right bullet and have similar recoil to the 243 plus come in compact rifles. 308, 708, and 260 are also better choices that can be loaded to the same recoil level as the 243.

Not your listed choices...

If he practices, a rifle that fits him will probably be more important than recoil, but an animal the size of a moose will require a sufficient level of power.

I say buy another rifle that fits him in a larger caliber having a recoil level he can handle and also enough range: 308 or 708 bolt, 35 or 44mag lever... A moose hunt would be a big deal to me and not a regular hunt; wouldn't want to mess it up.

Skatchewan;
First off sir, thank you for making the opportunities available for your son to hunt. That takes time and effort on your part to be sure, but I'm certain the rewards will be lifelong for both of you.

If I was going to guess by your handle here, you might know the areas of which I'm about to speak? I grew up eating moose that came from east of Erwood and Hudson Bay area that my late father would bring home to our farm near Churchbridge from his annual hunt there.

For a hunting rifle he started off with a borrowed surplus SMLE and then bought a Savage 99 off of a trapper friend from the Erwood area. It was a .250-3000 and if foggy memory serves we ate at least 3 moose that died in front of it before he traded it off for a Winchester Model 100.

On the subject of recoil tolerance, while I could write a small book on my mistakes trying to find what our two daughters could shoot well, the short version is that one now shoots a .250AI and the other a 6.5x55.

While they've only been killing deer with them thus far, I'd say that based upon what we've seen doing the postmortems there that the 6.5 might be a wee bit more forgiving of less than perfect shot placement.

That said, the little .250AI has resulted in some very abrupt endings that impressed me - a sometime .300/.338 Mag shooter - to no end.

While I realize the .250AI isn't a .243, I'd be quite surprised if it wasn't capable of very similar results.

Lastly, as of late we've been running 130gr TSX in the 6.5 and 80gr TTSX in the .250AI and have been extremely pleased with the results.

Hopefully that was some use to you Skatchewan. All the best luck to you and your son on the moose hunt whichever way you decide.

Regards,
Dwayne

I knew a guy who went hunting in British Columbia. He worked at the gun shop. He came back and told me he shot 2 bears 250 yds away and nice bears. He shot a dall sheep and a moose. I asked, what caliber? Thinking a 300 weatherby since he worked at a guns shop. He said .243 Win. I was very surprised. He said mostly depends where the bullet goes. I know this is hearsay but the truth none the less. Take it for what it's worth. Not that I care.

Especially.

The OP implies that the choice of which rifle to use will be up to his son. When I was a kid, I wanted to hunt stuff with my own guns, not someone else's. Come to think about it, I still feel that way.

If the young man decides he will enjoy the hunt more by using his trusty .243, then get him a few rounds loaded with Barnes or Nosler premium bullets that are fairly heavy for the caliber (my vote would be the 100 gr. Partition), let him enjoy hunting with his own rifle, and help him cut up his moose.

The boy will probably feel more comfortable and confident, and he won't be fumbling with an unfamiliar rifle when the adrenalin is flowing.

The moose will never know the difference.

Wouldnt a 100 grain TSX/TTSX for the 243 be just dandy???

I suspect a 100 gr. monometal bullet might be too long to stabilize in a .243...just a guess.

To what possible advantage would a 100gr 6mm monolithic work? If you get consistent pass-throughs with the 85gr and it shoots plenty flat enough and stablizes smartly the extra weight is wasted and in a detrimental way.

Lead cores get shed with other bullets and the balance of the bullet needs to retain sufficient weight to make it through the critter... Not so with the TSX.

"To what possible advantage would a 100gr 6mm monolithic work? If you get consistent pass-throughs with the 85gr and it shoots plenty flat enough and stablizes smartly the extra weight is wasted and in a detrimental way."


Okay Art, I'll bite...

In what way is adding 15% more to the bullet's weight while also increasing it's B.C found to be "..wasted..in a detrimental way.?"

Guess I'm wondering what possible "disadvantage" a 100 grain 6mm monolithic would be, given one twisted it correspondingly.?

One of the resposibilities of an adult is to help their children along with good judgement. When a 6.5 sits in the arsenal, the use of the 243 simply doesn't show the best judgement, or respect for the animal.
Never said you could not kill a moose with a 243. But....you will never convince me that the 243 will wound and lose more moose than more appropriate stuff.
I absolutley admit to a bias towards more caliber. I used a 270 for many years before trialing a 35 Whelen. The effectiveness of the Whelen, on game, impressed me, even tho the 270 has never disappointed me.
Most of the boys growing up on the (Pennsy) farm began deer hunting with a 35 Remington. I believe that experience taught some important lessons. Not sure some of you fellows would understand just what they might be.
Realize this got completely off track from the original question. For that, I apologize.

fishdog52,

This thread has partially descended into a yes/no debate over the .243's suitability for moose. As is typical of similar threads (.22 centerfires on deer, .270 Winchester for elk, etc.) the people who've actually seen the .243 used on moose or other large game are on the yes side. The other side is pretty much made up of theorists, most of whom have never shot a moose, or even seen one killed.

You could help matters considerably by detailing the experiences you've had with moose that resulted in your anti-.243 feelings.

A long time ago I had many of the same goofy-ass thoughts about the importance of caliber that you are espousing... Then I started shooting stuff with smaller calibers and better bullets. Nothing like actually doing stuff to realize how doable it is.
art

I sooooo love this place.

Question was answered, and confirmed in two posts - and here we are eight pages later. >grin<

The best part? It'll happen again.

6.5x55 Swede and the 160 Woodleighs @2500, wont kick and will penetrate for days, plus its a natural for moose.

Gunner

edit: spelling

I'd twist that .243 to handle the 115gr DTAC, and shoot bullwinkle dead in the heart from another area code - then send the boy to do the work.

Hey, what are kids for. >grin<

Just to keep things in perspective, though I won't say it can't or shouldn't be done, there aren't as many people who admit to using a 243 on moose as will join the bandwagon......and I know of people who've used 22 rimfires, both long and short, but obviously don't suggest that, so...



in spite of the fact that plain old CoreLokts and Interlocks can zip right through a moose under the right conditions, remember that they are truly big game animals, and are easily capable of stopping great bullets from more powerful cartridges than the 243.

Bullets pictured, l to r: 250 Speer Grand Slam around 200 yards 340 Wtby, 225 Barnes XFB around 200 yards 340, 170 Rem CoreLokt < 100 yards 30-30 WCF, 160 CT FailSafe >250 yards 7mm-08, 200 Nosler BT around 200 yards 340. All were essentially broadside shots; bullets were shot into the forward lung area which also included varying parts of the shoulder area, some encountering more/bigger bone than others. Every animal died by drowning; drill the lungs!

Last fall I was fortunate enough to hunt moose and a few other critters in British Columbia.

My Beaver Indian guide showed me his moose rifle with which he had taken a couple dozen moose.

It was a 22 Hornet.

He regarded my 300 WSM as overkill for everything but said it might be helpful if we had to deal with a big,mad grizzly,otherwise it was pretty useless to him.

He said he just shot his moose where the head joins the neck and got out his knife.

Shot placement trumps pretty much everything.

I am Part owner in a NW Ontario Deer Camp.We let a couple locals Moose Hunt there as they keep an eye on our property.They use a 250 Savage and 243 with what ever they can buy locally for ammo.They have never lost one to my knowledge with either caliber.Got nothing to do with Respect for the Animal and everything to do with proper shot placement.

You could shoot the 06 reducedmrecoil loads. They are sweethearts to shoot.

Your too late to the party, the fat lady sang already.

I've shot no mooses, but if I did get the chance I'd be packin' more heat than a .243.

To me it's a simple truism that "bullets from guns into vitals kill animals". So- of COURSE a .243 will kill a moose. How could it not?

A corollary truism is that there are limitations to consider with cartridge/animal pairings. A .223 on moose has limitations that a .338 does not. Both will kill, but the .338 opens up some more avenues for the Death Cab to use to get the participant to the big dance.

So in classic Campfire form this one has devolved into a black and white proposition, with one group nodding sagely that of course it will work; only DSMF's think otherwise! Meanwhile the other group is essentially saying they'd rather not work under the particular limits of this cartridge/critter pairing.

That's where I'm at. Compared to say an atlatl, a scoped .243 with a good bullet is an awesome instrument of death. It really is. However, my foggy memories of college physics tell me that if we hold as many things constant as possible- say, spitzer bullets of similar construction at similar velocities- a bigger cartridge can tear more chit up.

So that'd be my take. Tear more chit up. If the lad is recoil shy I'd work this summer to determine if he can shoot the '06 with 150's. If he can, then I'd load a monometal 150 and run that over the .243- or a more standard 180-gn bullet loaded to .303 velocities.

Just my opinion and I'm moose-less so it probably ain't worth the tome it took to type it out.

Just like Mule Deer said a few posts back.

Yup.

Maybe we need a thread on favoritest ass-shooting cartridge?

I'm tellin' ya this thread is a classic.

I'm laffin' so hard after the "blah,blah,blah" response, that I have to pause between key strokes.

oh, somebody help me! *tears runnin'*

not exactly sure where you will be hunting moose, but here in the nw US the moose are a good 300-500lbs shy of the alaskans. I also could walk up and kill most with a pocket knife, where in ak, I was in shock to see a mooses run from me like I was, well a hunter. were you moose hunting in an area like mine....I would worry more about having him shoot it somewhere easy to recover than the gun to be used.

Lots of comments from lots of folks. Bet quite a few of them have never shoot a moose before either. I have been moose hunting, but only got to help with the quartering. I have however owned and shot several of the mentioned calibers. Biggest animal was a caribou, with a 6.5X55. Don't really remember all of the deer, used everthing from an 9.3X62 to a 243. All of them killed the animals dead with good shot placement. Given the choices mentioned I'll still say the 6.5X55 with 120 to 140g bullets is a better choice for moose.

One could easily replace 'moose' in many of the previous posts with 'grizzly' and arrive at a very similar conclusion. But, many would say, that is crossing a line; perhaps not only crossing a line, but also stepping in steaming doo-doo, maybe berry filled doo-doo at that.

It's funny talking about recover of the moose. My moose hunt was in northern MN, it is a party hunt tag. My "buddy" shot a bull in a cranberry bog, at dusk.. It was heading towards the logging road. I was waiting to see what it would do when BANG, buddy shot. Spent a really bad evening in 3 feet of about frozen water quartering a moose. He was not very popular in the camp that night.

I don't think so, based on my perception that wounded griz have a far higher chance of killing the wounder than moose. Please correct me if I'm out on a limb with that assessment.

Granted, moose should really be regarded as DG at closer ranges, but I would have to think that griz (and browns) can absorb a lot more damage and still send you to the promised land.

Now, if the .243 is an AR-10 with a 20 round mag and TTSXs, we're talking a different game. ;-)

I'd still go .260 or 7mm-08 though at a minimum, myself. :-)

Sorry, but size really don't matter. Looks like the 243 is challenging the 250 Savage for "Darling of the Campfire"

Mostly made that post to stir some thought. Many local's stories and anecdotes will attest to the suitability of a 243 (or less) for a lot of things - including not only moose, but bears as well. My point is only to try to counter the sometimes tendency that moose threads often have where all perspective is lost and moose are nothing more than cardboard cut-outs which can be pushed over with a stick.

I am reminded of the caribou hunt I made this past March with a friend. It was strictly a meat hunt so we were hoping to bring back 10-12 deer. After we accomplished everything we had wanted in the first day and we were reminiscing over the events of the hunt, he commented that he was going to bring a bigger rifle (than the 243) the next time. Two reasons: wind was a factor at some of the distances we were shooting, so he was hitting some in less-than-desirable places, or missing, and he was not seeing evidence of the impacts like more energetic bullets often allow.

I have put four 140 grain bullets into a very ordinary/medium sized bull at less than 200 yards from my Swede. None made it out the back side. Two Partitions were against the hide on the back side; two A-Frames didn't get that far, all on broadside shots. I had time to put the binocs to my eyes and pick out the animal from a group of several for every shot after the first. It's not high on my list of many good choices. I won't detail my use of the 6mm on moose.

My caribou was taken on Adak, perhaps a little larger than the ones in the mainland herds. They are curious animals, we sort of chased them over several hills for a couple of miles. We would move they would move, always one hill ahead. After a couple of hours we just stopped at the base of a hill. Sure enought several crested the hill to see where we were. About 75 yards one shot bang flop hit at the base of the neck.

I'm not sure how you guys are changing the thread's title to .243 OK, on Elk (or Grizzlies) - but it's got me in stitches.

Ya, has gone a bit off topic. Always will be the small/bigger is better issue. I tend towards the bigger is better. Everyone has their own choices to make. For myself I will go with what has worked for me. As has been stated before why does one need more than one rifle? I could agree with that, but it would not be near as fun.

Since when did a 24CF thread ever stay in topic?

My bad. "You guys" was all my fault. Just use the regular "reply" link and you can change the title to anything you want. It wasn't so many years ago that the Roberts was debated for elk on internet forums - and the result was that people tended to disparage the idea. Nothing has changed in that time other than people's opinions.

I think the thread is official derailed. Moose are one thing but taking up to grizzlies is apples and oranges. How about elephants? Cape Buffalo? Sasquatch?

I think moose will go down easier than elk, and especially bears. I don't think they have the toughness or whatever you want to call it compared to elk. One through the lungs and wait till they tip over. It just takes a little time to deflate them compared to your standard whitetail.

OK...WTF....I'll play...

1. Elk-yes.
2. moose. Yes
3. grizzlies- sure..what the hey...
4. elephant-give me a 120 gr. round nose solid..I'll try anything once....

The famous African professional hunter John Kingsley-Heath killed a bull elephant quite suddenly with a .243. He used a bullet custom-made by Speer specifically for the purpose, and put it in the ear-hole. Crash!

Kingsley-Heath admitted that was something of a stunt, but firmly believed the .243 was the best leopard cartridge ever. This always gets a rise from "modern" African hunters, whether amateur or pro, but JKH's reasoning was pretty clear: The .243 didn't kick enough to bother anybody, and the bullets expanded perfectly for killing 150-pound animals, especially at typical bait-hunting ranges. Over a career that was over a half a century long, he not only killed a pile of leopards himself but guided clients to hundreds, in several African countries.

One through the lungs and wait til they tip over works,and moose seldom take much notice of a big bullet through the boiler room,but it has been my experience that with smaller calibres they tend to wander a bit before they fall,and the wandering can often be into a swamp or a willow jungle.I shoot an 8mmMag at BC mooses,and I keep shooting til the legs go up in the air!! Monashee

Perhaps the best thread ever. Good information, some heartfelt responses - but the satire is just rich, I mean golden.
I can not quit laughin'.

OK 243 is great for 150# animals?? Have never baited a moose, wait, I will admit I have never shot a moose.. Good to go I will sell all my other rifles and keep the 243. Mice to Elephants nothing else needed.
No not really but will keep the 243 because it does work well in its niche..

There another consideration. From what I've seen with you ( limited) they can have more poise than mNy adults. They simply don't know they should be nervous plus they are more patient for the right shot. They don't take marginal shots because they've been told not to. Judge the maturity of your son and let that also guide your decision. Not all new hunters need extra margin of error. Some need less because they are less willing to push the limits

Thinking you have not seen many moose or bears shot... I have seen a number of moose take a ridiculous amount of killing... My elk experience is way limited, but there is no way I would hesitate to shoot an elk with a 243 and a TSX, while holding on the shoulder.

I can't think of anything, hit well - including bears, that has lasted very long. I don't include critters that paint the countryside as necessarily hit well however. Some animals do seem to be able to survive by pumping adrenaline fumes through their veins if your don't hit the drains too hard to begin with. FWIW, more than a few bears don't get hit well initially which is partly why they have a reputation for toughness, I believe.

If your Son can't shoot the 30-06 or the 6.5X55 , he's not ready to hunt Moose yet ! IMHO

Pretty arrogant statement there...

I agree. I did not let my son put in for Moose until he turned 14 this year. Reason was because he hunted with a .243. This year he has a Ruger .270 and he is shooting it well so we put him in for moose. Since I apparently need to qualify my opinion with my experience here, I've shot three moose. A bull and a cow in Vermont and a bull in New Hampshire. I've also participated in moose hunts with my wife and BIL in VT and NH. All were DIY without a guide in sight save the Holy Spirit who guides me in all things. Just my opinion, and yes .243 guys I am allowed to have one. I'm hoping my boy pulls a VT moose tag here in two weeks.

Go ya one better, beins you're a full growed bonafide he man, if you can't shoot a 458 lott loaded full house with 500 gr bullets, with a stock that a full 2 inches to long and a checkered steel buttplate you're a puss...

Who has a .458 Win with a steel buttplate?

Guess you fall in the puss catagory then?

smithrjd,

I guess I'll have to be more specific about the 150-pound/leopard deal.

JKH found standard (not "premium") .243 bullets, like those in Winchester's average factory ammo, to work perfectly on leopards, because they expanded violently and did a lot of interior damage. This knocked the snot out of 150-pound animals. I believe he even really liked the 80-grain "varmint load," though will check on that.

I have found the .243 to be capable on animals much bigger than 150 pounds with bullets such as the 100-grain Nosler Partition.

I've read a few stories of .243's taking out moose no problem.

you know what caliber has killed more elephant than any other?

7x57.

so what to say a .243 can't kill anything on this continent without issue.

I have no experience with moose other than our scraggly little shira's. But of the 3 of those I've seen shot and killed with a 243, one went down in a heap after being hit with hornday 100 gr,one with a 95 gr partition, and one was a Winchester 100 gr factory load.
So maybe try several of the "premium" bullets to see which shoots the best, and if none of them out shoot the the plane ol 100 gr cup and cores then go with the cup and core.

Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.

I make this same comparison all the time. It's not so much about what's reality, but what peoples preceptions are of what is acceptable or "normal".

You could make the same comparison to a low velocity black powder rifle, or those who choose to spear or knife their game where legal.

I have never said it can't be done . . . . . there's just better options IMHO, and the Original Poster has one at least available to his son -- 6.5X55 Swede.

And YOU knife the moose. I live with them, and only a retard would hunt them with a knife.

>grin<

This 'n' has it all.

If that Swede lacks a little, the .260 Rem would more than suffice (or is it the other way 'round) *magic bullets for either of 'em though*

Mako... you're laffin'! You are rollin'! You've got tears in your eyes it's so [bleep] phunny! We owe you a keyboard! It's a classic!

*sigh*

All good things come to an end.
'Twas one for all-times though.

you can get 300fps with a 40lb Bow?? holy cow. lol 39 inch draw or something lol.

I'm not a bow hunter, just guessing for illustration purposes. and yes I do have a 39" draw!!

You must have a 90" arm span

I thought it was laways illegal to kill Leopard with small bores?

I highly doubt the 7X57 has killed more Elephant than any other. Yes I know Bell used one (among others) but his 2,000 some Elephants are small potatoes compared to all the Elephants ever shot.

The Swede with 140 Barnes TSX!

moosemike,

The .243 is illegal in some African countries for leopard, but not in others. A lot of JKH's hunting was done before there were "caliber" laws in many of the several countries he hunted.

Plus, some PH's are quite willing to allow clients to use a smaller-bore rifle IF the client has proven to be a good shot, or if the client has proven not to shoot well with larger rifles. I known of a woman who killed both Cape buffalo and white rhino with a 7x57 in the 1990's, in a country where the 7x57 was illegal for such animals. But she couldn't handle a .375, the smallest legal caliber. The PH let her use the 7x57, and both animals died due to 7mm injection.

Thanks for the clarification. I had thought that the caliber restrictions were at least as old as the .243 Win but apparently they aren't.

I wanted to read more about JKH. I found this LINK Apparently he just died.

If you want to read more about JKH, the best source is his own book, HUNTING THE DANGEROUS GAME OF AFRICA (Sycamore Island Books, 1998). It is pricey, though worth it. I got mine new for the list price of $95, but there weren't many printed and used copies are going for $200 or more.

It's a large-format book with almost 500 pages, essentially a history of JKH's hunting life in Africa, both before he became a PH and afterward. Included are hunts with Jack O'Connor, John Wootters and other notables. It's very well-written, with lots of interesting photos. (Though one blithering idiot who reviewed it on-line panned the book, apparently because JKH didn't guide past 1980 and all the information in the book was thus "old.")

Was hoping to offer some help from a source I often go to, but the single US source says $475 There is one in UK for just over $200.

Yeah, the longer I've had my copy, the luckier I feel!

You need to get your mind in the right place.

OK. so say a moose is 1K pounds.
and the bullet is a .243 of the 100 grain variety (0.01428 pounds) thats a ratio of bullet weight to animal weight .00001428/1
a 30-06 at 180 grains is .0000257/1.
Really?
REALLY?
The moose is gonna tell the difference?
Hit 'em proper and take him home.

Quit trying to state the obvious my friend. Better option.

Hey guys, thanks for the lively discussion. My thoughts are not whether the .243 will kill a moose. I know it will, have friends that have shot quite a few with it. Is it MY first choice. Nope. I've always believed you should shoot the biggest gun you can shoot WELL. Just want a back up plan, and so far, am enjoying the discussion. In all likelihood, we will go with the 6.5x55 and accubonds (already have them)

Thanks for your input, feel free to carry on!

Be sure to post pics!

+1

Yes it will. All mathematical calcualations prove in regard to shooting is "that bumblebees can't fly". Math doesn't tell you what will happen. Shooting those two loads into game repeatedly will tell you though.

Skatch,

Think you're doing right by your boy with the 6.5. Have fun and build memories.

Heck, I'd shoot 'em all day long with a .243 if it was legal but you do know it's illegal to shoot 'em with a rifle?

What? Moose? Oh, I thought you said goose!!! Thinking about it, with a well-placed, good bullet, I don't think it would be any problem. Might not be much of a blood trail, but I think it would do the trick.
__________
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.

I have been guiding Moose Hunters for 17 Years and learned early on that enough Gun is important . I learned this lesson from 2 guys with .243s . I will not guide anyone that doesn't carry at least a .270 Win. I have no idea what your experience is and don't really care . If you were to call me a Puss to my Face , I bet I could change your mind without saying a word . There are Ethical Hunters and there are guys like you .Just because you disagree with someones opinion , there's no need for a personal attack ! Internet Commandos make me sick !

So why stop with a piddle ass little 270, why not go with a 416 remington mag? Just exactly when does enough become enough?
As for ethics there puss I'm afraid you wouldn't know what an ethic was if it was stuck in your femine hygiene product....

Ah, now we're getting to it. Name-calling on the Campfire, including the implication that the other guy totally lacks hunting ethics, or is some sort of girly-man. Hard to beat both for originality.

This old bullspit put for by these firearms xspurts, just baffle me.
I mean really,, if cartridge x isn't big enough then why not go with something with some serious horsepower. They always quit with the dink as 30 or 33 bores, why not get real and go for calibers that starts with a 4?
Sheezus.

Brings to mind Phil's comment on those without faith in the 30-06 as a brown bear cartridge.

I agree with you MuleDeer...pitiful how ONE person asks a question wanting/needing advice on something and it gets ,somehow, to this bullschitt. Still donno why we can't all stay on the topic...

And the topic of this thread has been pretty well beaten to, well, death.

??? And your answer to which bullet to use in his sons 243 was hidden in code in that wonderfully thought out piece of suckup????

I see that!

>laughin'<

again, agreed.

Any gun you have in your hands is better than any gun in the safe.

Likewise, the gun you have in your safe is better than the one in the store. The one in the store is better than the one on the magazine page.

If you only have one gun, and think of yourself as a *hunter* rather than a killer, a shooter, a butcher or a dude...you can humanely harvest many animals. It is about passing up the marginal shot. The ethical hunter will pass up more shots with a .243 than he/she would with a 30-06 when hunting 'stretch' targets.

Be careful about drinking the velocity koolaid. For a given bullet, more velocity almost always means less penetration. That is counter-intuitive. Vanilla cup-n-core bullets are usually pretty happy with an impact velocity of 2400fps. Ethical hunting with vanilla bullets means you might have to pass up shots that are too close if you are launching the pill at 3000fps.

Generally, free advice is worth between 1 and 5 times what you paid for it. This advise was freely given.

Rancho..you're clearly fishin for arguments..which is one reason why this thread went to hell in the first place..I believe it was you that "accused" someone of being a real he-man..well why don't YOU try it for a while and act like one. Aint noone suckin up to noone here..I dont know anyone on here personally and don't plan on asking anyone for any favors..just adise and opinions from time to time..and unless you can step up to the plate and be a team player and stop your BS , I'd prefer you not make any comments on anything I post. Thanks ahead of time....
And BTW..if I was ever fortunate enough to go on a Moose hunt and HAD to use a .243..my bullet choice would be a TSX/TTSX , ...to the head...

Saw that too!

Clickin' on the list of forums is a hoot with this one - that's where the "new" titles show up.

Yea, I was wondering about that..

Thought this 'n' had wrung the last giggle out of me yesterday, but no Sir, tonight was pretty good as well.

Uhh no not looking for arquement...
You may want to go back and reread thru this thread, carefully this time.

You are absolutely right.
Thing is Elmer Keith and Jack OConnor were both right. Big and slow kills very effectively and you can eat right up to the hole. Light and fast kills like a lightning bolt at longer ranges with easily placed shots.
Been there done that with both sides of the arquement, and own and use rifles that proove both arquements.
Just not sure how some keyboard commando can prounounce someone unfit to hunt, because that person in question isn't using the king's choice of cartridge?

obviously many missed the original tongue in cheek post of Ranch13's.....

I have never seen such heated arguements over .007-.02". Most men argue over 5-6" not hundredths of an inch. Its just a cartridge and its a free country. It's not like we are arguing over who's mother is the best.

Bingo Partagas.
Planning to be in your part of the world in a couple months, might drop you a pm and see about buying you a cup of coffee....

I have never shot a space alien but if I knew they were coming for me I would load hardened steel 3/8" dowel pins out of my 375 H&H Magnum. That outta do it.
Just a thought the Minnesota DNR used to suggest that the .280 Remington was a good minimum cartridge for moose.
whelennut

7,62x39 will be a better answer ... AK47 and the ammo are flooding on the continent ....

I think that was in reference to Walter Bell, who killed well over 1000 elephants with a 7x57 and IIRC, very precise brain shots with the bullet passing through an opening in the skull (the elephant's "temple" maybe?) and bypassing bone.

With a 40 rd magazine they should make a good elephant rifle with fmj bullets. Space aliens beware! When will Polska chime in?

from memories at least half have been wounded ... i ve met some old ivory hunters that never met Bell but used too small calibers. but those guys were crazy.
my reference too was all the guerillas around that used ak to make meat and of course ivory traffic ..

all the best.

but back to the topic 243 will work on moose or grizzly even if it will not be my first choice.

I have no doubt the AK-47 has killed thousands of elephants by ivory hunters, and you may very well be correct that the 7.62x39 has killed more than any other. Good call. I do wonder how many shots it takes on average to kill one, even with FMJs to the head.

This is getting way off subject.

If all I had was a 243 and I wanted moose on the table then there would be moose on the table. Moose are not hard to kill.

Back to being on subject...this ain't no .243 (or 6.5X55 for that matter) so it really has no bearing on the subject at hand, but at least it's getting off the topic of elephants and space aliens.

I'd not want to be a thing with a 223AI in my hands. I'd like to be a thing even less, as I'd probably be more deader, with a 243 in my hands.

Rock on

Hey guys, he didn't get draw for moose, so it's a moot point. Thanks for the input.

I don't even think the .243 is legal for Moose in New England so I couldn't try it if I wanted too. But I don't anyway.

Most of the laffers and mockers on this thread wouldn't either... which cracks me up! I'm rollin'! Laffin'! Y'all owe me a keyboard! Etc!

It's a slippery slope to say a .243 is big enough, next a .223 is big enough. How can I justify a .338 Federal when a .223 is big enough? Who needs a .416 Ruger if a .243 is big enough?
Shot placement is everything IMO, but sometimes things take a step just as you fire and a branch gets in the way etc.
Bring your flashlight and a canteen and everything will work out, (hopefully).
I would say have the kid practice and use the 6.5 just because it has a good reputation for penetration. When he grows up then he can use the quick twist .223 AI with heavy bullets like Big Stick. You have to walk before you can run.
whelennut
Please pass the popcorn.

Can a 243 kill moose? Yes!

But why use a 243 when the OP has the 6.5 which his son has used before?

Keeping things in a proper or let`s say in a better perspective, the 243 is "NOT" a moose round. It is a deer, antelope, hog, and throw in a black bear round. That is what it is, and that is what it does best.

There is no need to use or why even consider using an extremely borderline/threading the needle cartridge on a big game animal such as moose. Just because 243s may have been successfully used on moose in the past, doesn`t mean that it should be considered and used more often on moose than not.

Imo, a 6.5mm would be the minimum bullet diameter I would use on moose. If it were me on any hunt, using borderline cartridges and threading needles is not advised.

IMHO the 6.5x55 is a good answer as it is a good alround cartridge. Teach with the light slugs and then, move up the scale, if that's even needed. Sectional density on a slug in the 129 range is well, a killer.

A quick glance at the ballistics tables from an older Sierra load manual, shows that the 6.5 with their 140 gr bullet at their listed max velocity of 2500, and a 100 gr 243 bullet at 2900, the only difference besides the .031 bullet diameter is the sectional density, 281 v .242.... other than that the fpe energy is close enough to call identical....

As if that'll stop the debate!

Sorry about the bad luck on the tag...

Everytime I read these..." is such and such caliber okay for such and such animal" threads I'm always surprised how people fail to identify that the only limitation of a relative small caliber for a given animal is effective distance. With a premium bullet like a TSX pretty much any caliber can be a killer on anything at a reasonable distance for THAT caliber. All you're giving up in choosing a .243 over a 7 mag for moose (for example) is effective yardage. Same as using a .223 over a .270 for deer...just can't pull off the same shots. After killing a bunch of big stuff with a bow here in Manitoba for 20 years any centerfire almost seems like cheating! LOL

I'm sure I could have killed this guy with a 62 gr .223 TSX had that been the case...

I know Indians up in the north of Ontario that use a 22LR to kill moose, but that don't make it a moose rifle.

Sorry the lad didn't draw a tag, Sask. Better luck next year.

Great post! That's it exactly.

Killzone - GREAT pic.....GREAT Moose.....

I'm jealous. Keep it up! !

Interesting what Mr. Google can find...
In Vermont, no a 243 wouldn't be legal, but a 25-20 or a 25-35 would be.( Interesting read there about "moose guide" permits as well)
New Hampshire and Maine exclude 17 and 22 rimfires, and shotguns with buckshot.... No mention of rifle calibers..

Outstanding thread!

Growing up in Northern Ontario, we only hunted moose with the rifles that we could afford. Me, Mike Fike and our native friend, Injun Joe-Seppy (yeah, that's the correct spelling) used anything that we could lay our hands on - bows, spears, 22 single shots - whatever. My favourite was a 22 Hornet. Injun Joe-Seppy liked his father's 25-25 Stevens.

Before I go any farther, let me explain my friend's names. I know that you'll pester me with questions if I don't. Mike Fike got his name because when Mike was born, his father was sitting in the delivery room of the hospital, drunk. For some reason, he started singing that song called "The Name Game". The older ones among you will know it,

Come on everybody!
I say now let's play a game
I betcha I can make a rhyme out of anybody's name!

He took a flask out of his pocket when the nurses weren't looking, took a healthy swig, stared into the mirror and started laughing. Then he sang this.

Michael, Michael, Bo-Bichael
Banana-fanna fo-Fichael, Fee-Fy-Fo-Fichael.
Michael!

That's how Mike Fike got his name. It resulted from too much Canadian Club.

Injun Joe-Seppy came from a mixed family. His father was a full blooded Mohawk and his mother was from Italy. His father loved Mark Twain books; The Adventures of Tom Sawyer in particular. He said that his first born would be named after his favourite character in the book - Joe. Joe-Seppy's mom didn't speak very good English and thought that her husband wanted to name the boy after her father, Guiseppe. Somehow, the message got mixed up at the courthouse and the clerk recorded the name as Joe-Seppy. Go figure. Damn government people...

Anyway, with that explanation out of the way, back to the guns. We were at my farm just before hunting season, cleaning stuff up and dreaming about our big adventure. Mike, Joe-Seppy and me were all fourteen, so we had a lot of planning to do. It was our first hunt as men. We knew we were men because Joe-Seppy's dad told us so. We had to go out and get a moose by ourselves, skin it out with a pocket knife and bring what we could back home. It was our time. So we did. I shot a calf with my 22 Hornet.

Thanks for reading.

---

Speaking of the farm, here's something to completely throw this thread off track.

We got indoor plumbing in 1962. It was a banner year for my mother, finally having a place to sit down inside the house. Mind you, dad and I missed the outhouse. Staring at that brand new, shiny porcelain chair brought a tear to dad's eyes.

"Son, it's a sad day today. No longer will we know the joy of doing our business in the privacy of the two holer. Damn, it's over! We're going to have to spend more time at your uncle's farm, okay?"

The idea of going for a dump in the same building where you cook food has always bothered dad. Me too, I guess. Anyway, on with the verse.

The Devil and the Outhouse

Disaster struck the farm
When Uncle Olaf left the barn
He felt a movement coming on
And pretty soon
But not knowing where to go
When it's 38 below
Can make a man do crazy things
Or, so I'm told

Far off on the horizon,
Where the sun was gently resting
On the blessed hills we were proud to call our own
We could hear a jet like rush
And saw a fireball as such
Flying hell-bent for election towards our home

Uncle Olaf disappeared
And it was much too late, I feared
To try and track him in the snow and frigid night

Dad said, "Run for cover!
Don't you worry 'bout your mother
She'll meet up with Uncle Olaf in the sky."

So we slogged through waist high snow
And I was feeling aw'fly low
I thought the devil had arrived and we'd soon die

In the pitch black yard,
I was sloggin' pretty hard
For to hide from Perdition, or so I thought

And as the light grew brighter
And my fear grew brighter too
I was confused and lost track of where I was
I couldn't see a thing and loudly I began to sing
The blessed hymns of old I knew so very well

"Tis Beelzebub himself!" cried a disembodied voice
From somewhere way out past the great beyond
"Get down! Get down! Get down and hug the ground!"

�Uncle Olaf, is that you?� I yelled around

Lord Thund'ring Grace! I could see the devil's face
He'd come to take us straight to hell. Do not pass GO!
And the fear inside me mounted and through the air
I quickly vaulted
Feeling nothing but the ache of impending doom

I could have sworn the wind had lifted me
And the devil must have shifted me
For when I struck the ground, no ice and snow

In the darkness of the place I felt all warm
My hands, my face
But the gentle ground soon coughed up another dread

Satan's plans be damned
For I was not in God's good hands
But in the pit
Where once the outhouse barely stood

And as the foggy memory of the afternoon's activity
Cleared up and recognition took its place
I suddenly remembered why,
The day had flown so quickly by
Our two holer was being moved to a new space

Lucifer just laughed
And cried, "Young man, please take a bath!
You smell so bad that I won't claim your wretched soul.
Consider yourself charmed,
You've escaped today unharmed
And I'm content to wait and try another time.�

And I told the preacher that
After I came out of the bath
But he just scolded me for telling such a fib

Then Uncle Olaf winked and said, "Boy, I ain't no fink.
I heard you talkin' to the devil. That's no lie.
And I woulda helped you too,
But you was covered up with poo
And lord, I was reviled and stayed away

So, I got a little secret and my uncle, he's got his
And to this day I'm so very proud to state
That was the day I ducked the devil,
Who trod our farmyard damp and level
By getting into lots and lots of schitt.

- 2007

We all know Moose have been killed and will continue to be killed with .243's. I just question choosing one over a 6.5 that's in the cabinet too.

Common sense ain't all that common in some areas of the planet.

Moosemike,
I'd likely had had him use the 6.5. However, the .243 is a youth model, fits him better, and is at least a couple pounds lighter.....hence the consideration.