John,

It just hit me. The data you mention for the 9.3x62 using the 250 Accubond and Varget, is 60.5 gr. I've look net wide to find such published data and only one place rewards me with 60.5 gr. Loaddata.com's data which references Handloader magazine, #250, Dec 2007. This shot from a CZ550, 23.6" barrel and pressure tested under 60k psi.

Now, I'm going to assume that is your load, published by you. If not, I apologize. I'd lay rewared where it is due. No other manufacture of load data, bullets, powder, etc, lists 60.5 gr of Varget of the 250 Accubond or any other 250 gr 9.3 bullet.

If it was indeed your data....

1. How did you come up with said data?

2. Did you use what we refer to as looking for typical pressure signs; ie, difficult bolt lift, velocity, measuring CHE, primer signs (poor signs), etc.?

3. Did you SWAG it? Educated guess? Pay a witch doctor for help?

4. Did you confer with ballistic reps at Nosler, Hodgdon or elsewhere?

5. Once you obtained the 60.5 gr data, I assume you had it pressure tested by Ramshot (?) since you seem to have a very good relationship with them.?

Did you notice an increase or decrease in accuracy with each increase in powder charge with this bullet/powder combination? My best accuracy with my Pre 64 M70 and 24" Pacnor barrel seemed to be in the 2400-2550 fps range with 3-shot groups running sub 1/4-1/2 MOA. As soon as I went above 2550 fps, groups opened up to 3/4 to 1.25 MOA; which is fine for it's intended purpose.

Basically, I'm wondering if you, like many of us out here in "Handloader Land", pus
hed the published envelope a skootch more than the books say and use our years, possibly decades, of knowledge and experience?

Please don't interpret this post as a flaming arrow. I appreciate you knowledge and advice as a gunwriter.

Oh, and if you need to be politically correct, I understand. Do the best you can with your answers.
Alan

Alan,

Yep, that was my data.

I never had that particular load pressure-tested.

I did have the load of 62.0 grains of Reloder 15 and a 250-grain pressure-tested, and it got around 60,000 psi. I used that powder charge with 250's for a while, but one day when I was getting ready to go on a hunt in South Africa my supply of RL-15 was a little low. There wasn't any available locally, or time to order any.

I've always gotten good results with Varget, which is normally just slightly faster than RL-15, so tried Nosler's data, starting with the maximum load (56.5 grains) because they stick to older pressure standards of well under 60,000 psi. As I recall the initial test loads went up to 59 grains or so, and all shot sub-MOA for 3-shot groups at 100 yards, normaly for my rifle with about any load.

The muzzle velocity of my pressure-tested 62.0 RL-15 load was around 2650 fps, and the top load of Varget didn't get there. So I did a little calculating and figured 60.5 grains would result in 2650 or so. (This is easily done with single-based powders like Varget because velocity increases at the same rate as the powder charge.)

60.5 grains also shot into less than an inch and muzzle velocity was right around 2650. I loaded up 50 rounds of ammo and took it to Africa, and have used that load with 250's ever since. It never has shown the slightest indication of high pressure, even at 90-degree temperatures, and I would bet an 8-pound jug of Varget that it gets right around 60,000 psi.

I noticed in one of your previous posts that you use 65 or 66 grains Big Game with 286's. Where did you come up with that load?

John,

LOL, my notes say I got it from you

Alan

HA!

John, what is your load for the 286 gr Partition using Varget or Re15?

Thanks,
Ted

I've never tried Varget or RL-15 with 286's.

The very first 9.3x62 I loaded for was purchased for a friend from a local store. Before sending it to him I loaded for it just to see what would happen, trying IMR4895 and H4350 with 286's., which were recommended by many people back when the 9.3x62 was rare in the U.S. Neither worked all that great; H4350 was too slow and IMR4895 too fast.

I bought my own 9.3x62 a decade ago and tried Big Game right away with 286's, since it was right between IMR4895 and H350 in burning rate. It shot so well, both in terms of velocity and accuracy, that I've never fooled with anything else since.

Based on my experience with Varget and RL-15 and 250's, however, I'd say that around 57-58 grains of Varget would be about max, and 58-59 grains of RL-15. However, I must also note that Varget doesn't seem to vary much between lots, but I've seen RL-15 vary as much as two grains in cases the size of the 9.3x62.

When it comes to the 9.3x62, I'll be the first to say, for the most part, I'm not a pioneer. I discovered it here on the CF and the AR. I've simply followed suit and mimicked John's and others examples. When John said he used Varget or Big Game for the 250 Accubond or 286 Partition, I got in step.

Where I did diverge and break away from the pack is having Leupold install the CDS elev turret system on my VX3 1.75-6 and make the 250 Accubond load a combination I can use out to 470-685 yds (near sea level to my 10,500' mountain elevations). I bought three of the turrets; 500', 5500' and 10,500', since the 2nd and 3rd turrets were 1/2 the price of the 1st. For those individuals who claim the 9.3x62's max range should be no further than about 300 yds, better grab your oxygen. The 3rd, 10,500', turret will take me out to 620 yds, not that i'd use it that far.

Something of interest. The 250 AB @ 2600 fps drops about 5" more than a 180 Ballistic Tip/AccuBond in 30 cal @ 2700 fps (30-06!) @ 500 yds.

I found the same thing with RL 15 in my 35 Whelen switching to Varget solved that, got great accuracy too and it costs less.

Thanks for the reply, John. That actually fits perfectly with my experience using IMR4320.

Ted

Just for reference purposes....





Cheers!
-Bob F.

John,

Getting a touch of senility there, Ay?

Alan

Any of you gents have info for the Accubond in a x74R you
could share? Shooting in No.1 and SSK Encore barrel.

I have two lots of RL15 noticeably different in density. With my Redding BR-30 set to throw 42 grains of the light lot, it throws 43.6 grains of the heavy one. Interestingly those two charge/lot combinations shoot about the same under a 168 in my 308 rifles.

John,
I wold like to thank you for the data for the 9.3X62 that you published awhile ago. It made a noramally long and intensive search for good loads very short. My CZ550 shots yours so well that I have no need to look further.

John,

Would you use a 9.3x62 for Water Buffalo like we get here in Australia? I notice a few Ruger African's chambered in this cartridge which has peaked my interest.

LowBC

Would anyone have a .338 WM and a 9.3X62? Overlap? I like both,but need room in the safe...

I'm not JB alias MD but when i decided to go hunting water buff in Australia last year i asked my guide if my 9,3x62 would be enough. Answer was "yes without restrain if you use good bullets, will be as good as 375H&H". I choose to take my lever action in .50AK cal but will use 9,3 in Africa next year.

Hi GSSP,

I'm using and loading 9,3x62 for years in France, not having access to RL15 or Varget i use VN140 and VN540 wich are very close to them, with loads close or a bit higher than that of JB. Velocity is very close to his one and with no pressure excess sign. The 9,3x62 is loaded to lower pressure than cartridges using same case head and capacity because of the old standard of 1905 that are references for manufacturers. Loading to a bit higher pressure is easily done without risk in our modern rifles and cases. Never a 330WM the 9,3x62 is even better today with a bit more velocity than at the beginning of XXth century.
From my experience with french and finnish powders, with RWS, Norma or Lapua cases and most commun bullets we find today i'm sure you can use without problem the datas of MD.
In my Steyr Prohunter i can push 800m/s the 250NBT (no accubond)and get less than moa at 100m for 5 shots if i do my best. Not from Lead Sled but from and old Millet plastic rest...
Dom
PS: The Ramshot powders (Tac, Big Game, Hunter, Magnum) used by JB are franco/belgian powders we use under an other name with the same results as JB.

LowBC,

I haven't taken any buffalo with the 9.3x62. Tried to in Africa in September, but had already shot a really nice one with my .416 and never found one I wanted to shoot with the 9.3x62, though I carried it (with my PH's blessings--and he had seen others in action) for several stalks. It is so close to the .375 H&H that I doubt anybody could see the difference, though no doubt some ballistic hair-splitter would disagree.

John,

I have used both for more than 30 years, killed literally tons of big game with both, and always tell anyone who asks about the 9.3X62 that it is a 375 with five in the magazine.

Ted

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your responses. Is there a preference for any particular bullet weight? I read in my Nosler No.5 manual that the fella reckons it has a range of 180 yards...the trajectory of a 250 sure doesn't look like that.

Any thoughts?

I have both. Not sure that I need both, but I seem to find uses for each. My 9.3x62 has a 20 inch barrel while the 338WM has a 24. My 9.3 is also a bit lighter by about 3/4 pound. The 9.3 is built on a Charles Daily CRF action while the 338 is on a 700. Distinctly different guns with similar ballistic capabilities, at least out to 300 yards, after 300 yards the 338 shines.

I also have both a .338 Winchester Magnum and a 9.3x62.

The .338 has a 22" barrel, the 9.3x62 a 23.6". They're both fairly light rifles, the .338 7-3/4 pounds scoped, the 9.3x62 8 pounds. In recent years I've used the .338 mostly with bullets of around 200 grains at 2900-3000 fps, and find that it works great, killing more quickly than with heavier bullets, and recoiling less.

With heavier bullets I tend to use the 9.3x62, since it just about matches the .338's muzzle velocity with 250's (around 2650 fps), with noticeably less recoil. With 286's it's a great killer at the moderate ranges typical of African thornbush or American timber hunting.

Mule Deer - Since this is a 9.3 thread and we are also discussing the 338, I have a question and would value your opinion.

I have an upcoming spring grizz hunt scheduled for mid May. This will be my first large bear hunt, I have taken blackies which of course are not in the same class. The 2 rifles I have in mind are the 338 and 9.3. For the 338 I have 210 and 250 NP slugs, for the 9.3 250 Barnes TSX, 270 Speer hotcor and 286 NP. I would not use the 232 Norma for grizz.

I can shoot both just fine and I suspect ranges should be 200 yards or less on this class game. What is your rec?

Thanks for your input!

Regards

TT

Either round, and any of the bullets except the 270 Speer. It's a good deer bullet and would probably work, but a grizzly hunt is too important for probably.

Thank you sir!

JB or others,

If you couldn't get Big Game powder to use with the 286grain projectile, what would be your next favourite powder, assuming it hasn't changed from the data listed above.

Thanks

LowBC

It's also hard to beat Varget--or as you know it in Oz, AR2208.

I couldn't squeeze you for an idea on what you would run 2208/varget at with a 286 grain partition or the like if possible? Should it be close on replicating the Big Game performance?

If anyone's interested, Real Guns.com has a reloading page for the 9.3 X 62mm. It covers most available bullets and appropriate powders, including RL-15 and Big Game. All data was taken from a Ruger Hawkeye African with 23" barrel.

I was particularly struck with their results from RL-17, both in velocity and accuracy. It appeared slightly better than Big Game.

So that intrigued me, and I bought some. At first it appeared to be a total flop--way too slow. My max load from RL-15 was giving 2463 fps with sub-moa from the 22.4" barrel of my Tikka. That's from a 286 Hornady. The suggested top load from Real Guns (their data) was giving 2500+ fps from RL-17 and MOA from the 286 NP. With the same load, I was just under 2400 with erratic velocity. But after further discussion with a friend and more calculations, I decided to give it another try knowing it's burning rate was supposedly close to IMR 4350. I went 4 grs over their suggested max and was still less than 2500 fps, but matched my RL-15 load in both velocity and accuracy. In fact, it shoots to the exact POI as the RL-15 load! But there appears to be less stress on the brass, from measurements and observation. So, I'm going to try 1 to 1.5 more grains that may give 2500 fps without undo stress. We'll see.

Just thought I'd mention it.

And, BTW, it was JB's article in HANDLOADER (referred to above) that sparked my interest in the 9.3 X 62. Thanks John. I am a fan of mediums as well as real Big Bores.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

LowBC,

I would work up toward 57-58 grains of Varget as a maximum with 286's. It should come pretty close to Big Game.

CZ550,

Glad I could be a bad influence!

That's interesting about RL-17. I would have thought it a little too slow myself.

Thanks JB and others. I will let you know how my load development progresses.

All I can say is that MD's 9,3x62 data has worked pretty well for me......






The 250gr X bullets have shot so well in this and 2 other rifles I haven't bothered with other bullets yet..................dj

I would agree - there is no way in the world the 9.3x62 is limited to 180 yards. Clearly with an AB with a BC of .5, and starting at 2600 fps it is good for a long way out. The references to it as a short range cartridge are due to its original intent in Africa, throwing very heavy bullets at very moderate velocities. As Mule Deer suggests, the 9.3x62 now makes a very good alternative to a 338 Win Mag loaded with heavier bullets. The 338 Win Mag only has a significant ballistic advantage out beyond 300yards, and are you really going the be using your rifle at those ranges? For most applications of the 9.3x62 and .338 Win Mag, i'd suggest not. The 9.3x62 is the more efficient cartridge at the ranges most of us actually hunt at. The .338 though remains a more versatile cartridge.

Mine, with the 250 Accubond @ 2600 fps and the Leupold CDS elevation turret is a 600 yd rifle. I've already proven it to myself.

Alan

Having had a 338/06, I am very inclined to go w/a 9.3 on my next mid bore, as I think it kicks things up a notch, not that a 33 won't work well, they do also.

I think you are set Alan. Elmer Keith used his 44 that far w/250s IIRC, at less than half that mv....no doubt you are slinging a chunk at a good clip. He would surely endorse a 9.3x62.

57 grains N135, 250 Accubond. 9.3X74R. A moderate load, that is a tack driver in my BBF97 Blaser.

I should pick the rifle up in the next week or two so will have all the components ready to rock and roll when it arrives. I am loving all these 9.3 stories, it is building the excitement greatly particularly as our roar is only a coupleof months away :-)

LowBC. 58 grains of 2208 is an accurate load under the Woodleigh 286 PPSN, RNSP and Lapua 285 RNSP Mega have been useing since 2009. It is an accurate load that comes up again and again if you search enough.

I now go with the RNSP Woodleigh. I also load the 250 Nosler AB over >60.5 grns of 2208 but only once in new Lapua brass as it is a max load. It is extremely accurate but I wish they still made the 250BT in 9.3.

The 2011 Woodleigh website gallery has a number of pictures of African PG I have taken with the 9.3x62.

Anyone recall what brass was used? I see from Alan's post and pics, that the WLR was the primer of choice.

Also, how would the load data for the 250gr Barnes X compare with the 250gr TSX or TTSX? For that matter, what might be considered a starting load for the 250gr TSX and Big Game?

WiFowler,

I use Lapua for mine.

Alan

If it can help:

Rifle Steyr Pro Hunter 24 inch barrel

Using Norma cases, only partial forming, finnish VN540 powder 4,10g (63,3grs) CCI LR primer, Nosler BT 250grs:
Velocity for 2x5 rounded: 820m/s (2690fps)

Zeroed to 180m (200yards) i have enough elevation in my old S&B 1,5-6x42 to more than 600 yards with enough windage for most of my hunting conditions (can go farther if not too much wind)

Controlled by shooting to 300, 400m and by balistic program, Infinity 6, close enough for real hunting world situations one can meet using a 9,3x62.

I even pushed the enveloppe farther without pressure sign or any problem but i give credit to the tight chamber of the Steyr, so went down to the load above to keep safety margin when temperature climbs.

Enough for all soft skinned game on earth to 400m (or a bit more, around 1600fps left at 600m) with close to 590m/s remaining velocity at 400m...

Far from a 200 yards ammunition!

Dom

Frog,

You da man!

Alan

This is a great thread Alan. Thanks for starting it. A lot of damn good info here.....

I'm loading the 9.3x62 with the 250 accubond over 60 gr of Varget in Hornady cases with cci 200 primer. They are fired in a Ruger African M77. Groups are all.under one inch normally .800 or so, with 3x Leupold.

Awesome! But then, it's no surprise there.

Alan

Not to hijack the thread but here's some decent data to work with as well.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/93x62mm.htm

This is going to RSA next year along with a 7-08 shooting 140 gr accubonds.

Would that work with the TSX as well?

Yes.

John, isn't the 60.5 grain Varget load for 250's the same as a load you recommended for the .35 Whelen? I'm getting older, so I guess I could be remembering wrong, but that is what I think I read.

Do you guys see a significant reduction in recoil when you go less than the 286gr bullets?


Travis

Not really much if any difference between the 250s and the 286s.

Thanks for your prompt response. I'm going to RSA to a park near Kruger on a cull buffalo hunt in June.
Apparently there are non trophy buffalo coming in from Kruger and deciding to stay.

Should be fun.

doubletap,

60.5 grains of Varget is Nosler's maximum load for 225's (not 250's) in the .35 Whelen. I've found it to work very well in more than one Whelen.

AlabamaEd,

It should indeed be fun!

I'm betting the 9.3 with 250 TSX's will work pretty well too. Please keep us informed.

I would agree on that - they feel about the same to me.

Thanks to both.


Travis

Travis,

I have used more 286 gr loads at around 2400 fps than anything else. They really are not hard to handle at all, and certainly enough for any big game, as has been abundantly evident for well over a century.

And, they shoot flat enough to do so out to 300 yd without any trouble.

Ted

Has anyone tried BL-C(2)with the 286 grain NP in the 9.3X62? I have used BL-C(2)with the 225 grain NP with success in a custom .358 Win that I have but have not tried it with the 9.3X62.

I haven't tried BLC2 in the 9.3x62, but Hodgdon lists it with the 270 Speer. Looks pretty impressive: 66.0 grains gets 2548 fps at 47,400 CUP. This is considerably more velocity than any other 270-grain bullet load listed.

I'd drop that a couple of grains for any 286, but it looks like it might work very well.

I worked up my 9.3x62 load in 2000 using the original 250 X pushed by 61 grains of RL-15 in Norma brass. I took it to Africa in 2002 and the combo worked wonderfully, porcupine to eland, no surprise. The one and only rifle I was ever able to get an original X to shoot well in. Velocity was 2630 fps in the FN's 24" barrel. I still have the balance of the original 50 I took over there.

I shoot the 320 gr Woodleighs at 2400 fps w/ RL-17 and even they are very well mannered.

Gunner

I'm not saying the 9.3 is rough. I was just asking if there was a difference in recoil between the 250 class and the 285's.


Travis

Concur, I just think the 9.3x62 gives a lot of performance vs said/felt recoil levels, kinda like the sweet little 6.5 Swede.

Gunner

Has anyone tried these loads in 20" or 22" barrels? I want a shorter barreled gun and am curious.

Honestly, the only load I have tried is MD's 65gr's of Big Game and the Hornady and Privi. Sub-MOA right out of the gate. That was easy...


Travis

Both of mine have 21" barrels, and 2400 fps is easy to attain with 286 gr bullets.

Ted

For a while I had two CZ 550's in 9.3x62, the rifle with a 23.6" barrel and the FS (full-length stocked) model with 20.5" barrel. One day I shot a bunch of the same handloads and factory ammo in both rifles, and the biggest difference in velocity was 88 fps, if I recall correctly, and most were MUCH less.

Outstanding news Yukoner and Mule Deer, thanks. Very rarely is one told what they want to hear and it's actually true.

Same here, my first [and only] load shot the same, the 9.3 is very easy to like.

Gunner

In my experience with several rifles the 9.3x62 is one of those "inherently accurate" cartridges, despite how much some people dislike the term. I've loaded 232, 250, 270, 286 and 300-grain bullets and can't remember any that didn't go under an inch at 100 yards, and some loads averaged MUCH less.

Me too, I gave up and went with the one with the heavier charge wt with a tad more velocity. One of these days I'll try the BG powder when it is available locally ...Until then, I'll keep running RE15....

Yessir, and if I'm able to shoot groups like that with a 1.5-5 Leupold w/ German #4 reticle, the rifle and cartridge has to be way past spot on accurate.

BSA, I'm waiting on the Western Powders to be available in my area too, read a lot of good things about them from JB.

Gunner

bsa,

You run RL-15 with the 286 gr bullets?


Travis

Yep...I feel like I should say GFY

How much? GFY.


Travis

I know you are better with pictures so GFY right back:



and this:


My rifle is just not picky....Drops cow elk pretty good too. First year out with the ol 9.3x62 and it worked as expected....:


Oh, I also used RE15 with the el-cheapo 270gr. speers too:

Thanks for the information BSA. I may be on my way to RE 15 covering all my bases.

GFY,
Travis

Travis;

I've used lots of RL-15 in mine and it is perhaps at it's best with bullets lighter than 286s. I initially chose it because it had worked very well for me in .35 Whelen. .350 Rem Mag and .375 H&H.

However, while I recognize that each rifle has its own preferences, I found RL-15 has it's limit at about 60grs in my rifle at 0* C (+32*F)with 286s for accuracy and consistency. That gives between 2450 and 2460 with .80" MOA from Hornadys, but during June through September, with temps at a high 28*C to a low 18*C (82* to 64*F), best accuracy was with 58.5 as also suggested in Nosler's manual, with about 30 fps less. Mine has a 22.4" tube.

Just a year ago, almost to the day, I tried RL-17 for the first time. 67grs gave identical results in MV and accuracy on the same day as 60grs of RL-15... BUT, with less pressure.

This year (2012), my go-to load is 68grs RL-17 (a tad slower than Big Game), WLRM primers, Hornady brass and Nosler's 286 at about 2550 fps during the hot/warm months and now, in December, 2500 fps+. Accuracy is the same. In the cooler temps I've used 69grs at 2560 fps but accuracy doesn't appear to be quite as good, though certainly good enough. Pressure still appears to be less that using RL-15.

COL is at 3.36" and it's a compressed load. If I can get 70grs in and seat the bullet to 3.36", I'll give it a try one of these days... just because!

My rifle (Tikka 3 Lite) weighs 7.2 lbs with scope, sling and 1 cartridge. With 3 it goes 7.4 lbs. Recoil with my go-to load is 45 ft-lbs.

The above is intended for information ONLY!!! NOT TO BE COPIED without working up in the usual manner.

NOTE: Gunner500 gets 2400 fps from the 320 Woodley using RL-17.
In momentum that equals a 300gr from a .375 H&H (or any other 375 or anything shooting a 300gr)at 2560 fps and has an SD of .341 (the same as the SD of a 500gr from a .458-cal.).

Kinda puts things in perspective!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I think RL-17 and Big Game is more ideal. But if I can get by with RL-15, I may have found reloading nirvana.



Travis

Enjoy

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I keep a good supply of RL-15 on hand, but I tend to work up my loads during the warmest times of the year I'd be using the load. Otherwise, my best loads worked up during the colder times of the year tend to prove too hot during the warmer times of the year. I still lean heavily on RL-15 on my 416 Rem loads, but it is no longer my go to for the 9.3x62 for that reason.

You had pressure problems with 15 in the summer? That sorta surprises me.


Travis

Worked up a great load with a Nosler Partition during the fall/winter months. Worked well, but same load ended up too hot the following summer. No visible signs of excessive pressure and was dependable during that winter. Had issues with the same load the next summer. After that experience, I started using powders that were less temp sensitive. I'll use my 9.3x62 during the winter in temps down to zero and during the summer in temps as hot as I can stand to hunt. My supply of RL-15 during that time used in my loads has proved sensitive when shot from my personal Sako 9.3x62 and from a friends CZ 9.3x62.

Very strange and I don't doubt it but my rifle doesn't seem to notice the 60 degree temp drop. I just checked and it was in the dead of summer when I worked on load development, reconfirmed my zero a week before my cow hunt and it was still dead nuts for POI but I did notice my group size was bigger (1 1/2" for 5 shots!!!!). I was pissed so I took it out on that cow laying next to my rifle in the previous pic. It was 35 degrees that morning when I dumped her but I only needed one shot, thank god By the way, the 286 gr. partition worked great even though it was of the blemished type

Not calling bullschit, I believe your results, I'm just very surprised by them.


Travis

Travis,

In my experience RL-15 is the most temperature-resistant of the Reloder powders, and it was improved considerably in the late 1990's. But it still isn't as temp-resistant as the Hodgdon Extremes.

It is, however, one of the very best all-around powders for the 9.3x62. I've gotten excellent results with it with bullets from 232 to 300 grains.

Good to know. It has proven very reliable for me in the temp departments. I'd say I have the most faith in TAC and RL -15 right now.

Whatever the [bleep] that is worth.


Travis

I'm not an expert on this matter, but the friend with the CZ is an expert in the field. He spoke in Greek to me about the base and coatings, etc. But the jist I got out of it was that all of the powders are sensitive to some degree to temp. IIRC, they are pressure tested at a certain temp, going above or below that temp will increase or reduce the pressure. Varget, as an example of something I use alot, has a different coating than Reloader 15 which makes it much more temp insensitive over a broader range than the Reloader. He also said something about Reloader being tweaked to reduce this temp sensitivity somewhat because of this issue. Don't quite know all the science behind the matter, but yes, I see this swing with the RL-15 but not with other powders that are made to be less temp sensitive. I see this swing moreso with my 9.3x62 because I've used it now over a wide temp swing. I don't see it in my 416 because that rifle is used in a narrow temp swing.

Best

I was in reverse. Worked up a load when cold and it didn't group well until the load was on the warm side. Grouped very well, easiy extraction and no visible signs of pressure problems. Then came hot summer temps and the same load was too hot, sticky extraction and signs of excessive pressure.

I hear that....I think that's a common problem but something that will probably get better in the future as soon as more companies get on the band wagon with the "extreme" type powders....Hodgdon is one of them and I've almost all but switched to their extreme powders. However, I don't know if I'll ever give up Imr 4350 or RE15 though, regardless of their sensitivity to varying temperatures...

GaryVA,

Good post. All of which is why I prefer to use the term "temperature resistant" rather than "temperature insensitive."

There isn't a powder made that will produce exactly the same pressures and velocities from below zero to above 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Plus, the same powder can react differently according to the application.

The most temperature-resistant powders will show the least amount of variation in different temperatures and applications.

John,

I recall reading that certain primers can increase or decrease that effect. IIRC, W/W and Fed were among the best in creating the least fluctuations.

DF

My concern is more about velocity spread than velocity loss. If I lose 50-60 fps from a good summer load at 80 - 90*F to winter temps of -20* to + 15*F, that's no big deal, at least to me, if it's still accurate with an ES of not more than 20 fps.

I find that WLRM primers help provide that consistency for me in addition to the powder used. RL-15 is a good powder for that as is RL-17. RL-22 and 19, in my experience, are awful in that regard.

But, as I mentioned above, if I add an extra grain or two for winter hunting in the same rifle, I'll go back to the summer load when spring arrives.

In .45-70 and .458 WM, I changed to Hodgdon powders a few years ago using H4198 in place of RL-7 in each for bullets to 350grs, and even 400s, and H335 for any thing heavier. Both H4198 and H335 are very stable and consistent using hot weather loads in winter. Also, H4895 does an excellent job as well. I don't use IMR powders any more even though they are a Canadian product

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

BSA,

did you tried CCI 200 aswell?

all the best.

We haven't talked about this stuff in awhile so let's renew this thread: All this talk about WLR primers has me befuddled since they're not available to me. Has anyone noticed a benefit to using CCI magnums over regular LR primers with Varget/250s or Big Game/286s?

Yes, but only a few. The CCI 250's seemed to be more accurate...

I am constantly amazed at the accuracy of the 9.3x62. Has anyone had one that doesn't shoot? For a large game round I certainly go into the bush with confidence.

Sighting in a new scope, here is the final two shot group with 285 Lapua Mega projectiles over 58 of Varget. (Disregard the top composite group) Barrel is a Lothar Walther, scope was an FXII 2.5x20 with FCH @ 100 yards.

What primer?

Has anyone tried the 9.3 in a Sako Black Bear or a CZ 550 Carbine? Both have 20-21 inch barrels. Just checking and attempting to revive the thread.

Here's one that don't shoot. Whatever, it's still going to RSA on 5 June. It actually does better with 60.5 gr of varget

I just bought a CZ 550 Medium FS 9.3. I have brass, dies and Accubonds on the way. With any luck, I'll have some results to talk about this weekend.

Tophet and Ed, nice shooting. Damn I love this old cartridge.

68gr of RL-17 and a 286gr Hornaday gets 2515 fps in my 9.3x66, just sayin'.

bigwhoop,

I had a CZ 550 with the full-length stock and 21" barrel for a while, and spent part of one range session comparing the velocities of several loads from it and my CZ 550 rifle with 23.6" barrel. As I recall, the biggest difference in velocity between the two was 88 fps, with most loads less than 50 fps. One load actually averaged slightly faster from the shorter barrel.

Brad,
What is the accuracy like with that load? Any pressure signs?

Thanks Mule Deer. There is a CZ carbine in kevlar with open sights here locally that looks pretty darn nice. I don't think that is a new model but have not seen that configuration. The shorter barrel looks it'd be handy in tight quarters.

Doing a ladder with said bullet and powder. 68gr (2515 fps) delivered an inch @100m. Took it up to 70gr in 1/2 gr increments. 70gr is just under 2600fps. As I went up the accuracy widened. No traditional pressure signs at all up to 70gr. 2515fps ( 15' from the muzzle) duplicates a factory load in a 2" shorter barrel that I have. The 68gr load feels nice to shoot , 70gr you are starting to feel it.

Whats your point of impact difference between the 250 gr loads and the 286 gr loads? Mine was great till I switched stocks with a wood stock the load POI was 2" higher with the 250 gr load.
In a Mcmillion Edge free floated 5 " difference. Going to try a pressure point neutral to see I can get similar POI.

POI is approx 3" difference at 100m. I would normally sight the 286gr 3" high and the 250gr NAB's 2.5" high.
With the 250gr sight in the 286's fall 3" and to the left 2".

I have the CZ carbine with the 20.5" barrel. I'll be fine tuning two loads on Saturday and I'll post my results.

Btw, very happy with the little CZ!

Had my CZ 550 FS out yesterday. Normally I use 65 g. of Big Game with Speer 270 g., PRIVI 285 g., and Hornady 286 g. loads and all normally get close to 2400 fps in my 20.5" barrel.

After reading Mule Deer's comments on powders in his new book (he went to 66 g. of Big Game with 286 g. bullets); I decided to go up in powder with the Speer 270 g. Went in 1/2 g. increments to 67 g. With 67 g. of powder the chronograph just barely reached 2500 fps. Load seemed safe in my rifle. Will test it more for accuracy.

My rifle seems to like the Speer 270 g. bullets and Yukoner says they work very well in his considerable experience with the 9.3X62.

Furprik, How is your rifle bedded and barrel contour?

Mine is a fairly light contour, and POI changed when I changed stocks.

the rifle is a stock sako M-85

The 60.5g of Varget/250 Accubond is running 2550fps out of my 20.5" CZ. Impacts were touching on my 100 yd paper. I would say this load is a winner in my CZ Carbine.

Trevor, that about matches what I'm getting. My 20.5 Model 70 gets 2520 with that load.

pabucktail, do you use 286's at all and if so, how fast are you pushing them?

I need to bookmark this thread.

There's no doubt that the Varget and RL-15 loads that JB and others have used shoot well. They certainly do in my rifle. That said, with the current 'shortage' of powder, I'd like to find a some loads for the 250gr pills using H4350 or one of the other 'Extremes'. I know JB said that his experience with H4350 was not good, but I do like the temperature stability of the 'Extremes', and I have a large quantity of H4350.

Ordinarily the heavier 286gr bullets would print significantly higher than the lighter 250gr ones.

Trevor, I just got some loaded up and will try and shoot them tomarrow. I'll let you know.

I love H4350...well in my 260rem anyway. I do wonder if it might be too slow, but I guess until you try it, who knows. Somewhere on here I think I read someone has had good results with RL17, or am I confusing this'd with another thread?

JB has stated that he got less than great results with H4350

I shot the 286 gr noslers today and got an avg. of 2401 fps from my 20.5" barrel using 66 grains of Big Game.

i believe that varget, which you mentioned, is in the extreme family. only problem is getting hold of some.

I've had pretty good results using IMR 4350. I've not tried the H4350 yet.

I use 63gr of IMR 4350 for 250 older ballistic tips and the new AccuBonds and for the 270gr Speers. I actually gained very little by loading 63 grains over 60 grains, and I found almost no difference between 63 and 64 grains with either bullet.

Pressures seem reasonable, and brass lasts a long time. I do use a magnum primer. All four rifles tried had 24" barrels, except the CZ with a 23.6". My average velocity for the 63gr load with 250s was 2,560 with my present HusqvarnaStyer 98 Mauser hybrid running around 2,600. The 270 Speers were at 2,440. It surprised me that the Speers weren't a little bit faster.

I just got some R-17 and am anxious to try it with 250, 270, and 286 gr bullets. My best accuracy powder has been R-15.

May have been me, I'm getting 2400 fps with the 320 gr Woodleighs in my Heym Mauser with RL-17, originally wanted to try and get 4000+ ft lbs of energy on the '06 sized case to gauge efficiency of the cartridge for a given amount of powder.

It proved that in spades and is hell for accurate to boot.

Gunner

Thanks for the info. I have some Big Game in the cabinet and I think I'll try working up a 286 load with that. 2400 fps from a 20.5" barrel seems pretty respectable to me.

Trevor

Yes, I believe it will kill big things just fine. Running the numbers, it appears that I'll have a useful trajectory and bullet expansion out to 300 yards with no problems, which is as about as far as I care to shoot at animals 95% of the time anyway.

Couldn't agree more.

Does anyone have any on-game performance reports with the Barnes 250 gr. TTSX at 2,500-2,600fps? How does it compare with the Nosler Accubond?

Thanks, RS

I continue to be impressed with the 250 TSX over 60gr of Varget - MOA groups and 2590fps out of my rebored Interarms. The Swift 250gr A-Frame on the other hand does well with Ramshot Big Game, but not Varget in this rifle.

Ran into a fellow looking for some H4350, so I passed some along to him. Local shop has plenty of Varget, so I used the cash from the H4350 sale towards an 8# jug of Varget. I use it in the 22-250 also.

Hard to have too much Varget on hand.

It was some of MD's writings plus Ganyana's African experience that encouraged me to give the 9.3 X 62 a try, though at the time I was looking for another 35 Whelen.

It has lived up to expectations, and more, over the two plus years of extensive testing and hunting experience. In fact, it has replaced all "mediums", such as the .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag, .338 Win Mag. .340 Wby and .375 H&H, which have all been favorites, in my cabinet and affections. It comes exceeding close to the .340 Wby and H&H in ballistics, weighs 2 lbs less, is handier, very accurate and burns less fuel.

While I've had a a ton of experience with RL-15 in .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag, .375 H&H and .458 Win Mag, and assumed it to be THE powder for the 9.3 X 62, last year's experience with RL-17, and this year's further testing proves to me, at least, that RL-17 is vastly superior, at least with the 286 Nos. Part. I'll not give numbers, as my testing is not fully complete, but I'll say that it EASILY surpasses RL-15 by 100 fps and with less pressure signs. Perhaps not quite as accurate, but plenty accurate for hunting at 1.25" inch average... we're not shooting target rifles or trying to win competitive matches.

Just my experience... so far.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Look forward to your Re17 report when finished, Bob.

Ted

Also looking foward to any new 9.3x62 load data. I've done the same thing, have whittled down my pile of rifles to a select few that are often used. I still keep a 30-06 which I cannot let go, but otherwise, I keep a .243 for varmint chores, the 9.3x62 for big game, and though I keep a favorite 416 for the largest of large game, I'm starting to think I'd still end up using the 9.3x62 over the 416, even in Africa where legal. It's a homely chambering that reliably works well.

Here is the results of Hornady new brass, CCI LR primer, 59.5 gr of Varget and 286 gr TSX.



Now here is proof. This bull is 39 7/8 and is a cull taken near Hoedspruit, RSA on 14 June.

Proof's in the pudd'n...

Did you find the bullet, or did it blow on through?

DF

First two went all the way through. Last one went through the spine in front of shoulders and through the vitals, the brisket and lodged under the skin back of the front legs.

Did the petals break off, or was it a photo finish like in the ads?

DF

Photo finish-recovered bullet weighed 285 grains. Petals well formed and curled perfectly.

What velocity is that load running? I tried the 286 TSX in my x62 but couldn't get much over 2000 FPS. I can't remember if I tried RL15 or if I only used IMR4350 (pretty sure I tried RL15). Never did try Varget though I should have since I had quite a bit on hand. I've picked up a pound of N550 that I might try as well. Right now I'm running a Norma 286gr RN at 2350 which works well enough but I'm not really thrilled with the performance they gave on my bison. Maybe I was too close for a conventional bullet (37 meters) but I didn't get the penetration that I had hoped for.

You should be able to get more than 2K fps with a 286 gr. bullet.

How far did the Norma RN penetrate? I would guess it mushroomed fully, which caused less penetration.

DF

That 286 TSX is WAAAY too long in my view for anything less than a true magnum cartridge. At 1.5" it eats far too much powder room. Even the 250 TSX is about 1.375", which exceeds the length of the 286 Nosler Partition. I will never use them for that reason alone. Then, they are not necessary and over priced, again in my view. The 286 Nosler Partition will do anything they will do and leaves ample room for expected powder charges.

I don't know what pressure Barnes used in their testing, but from a 26" tube they record less than 2300 fps, which will limit the useful range to about 200 - 250 yds if any expansion is wanted.

The 286 Nos. Part. from my rifle is useful to 500 yards on larger game like eland or moose where velocity is still over 1800 fps.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I always get light for caliber Barnes bullets. For example, in .308, a 130 gr. TSX is about the same length as a 180 gr. cup and core. And length is the deal, not weight, regarding stabilizing a bullet. And of course, how much powder room it takes up.

My best 9.3x62 groups were with 250 gr. NAB's using JB's load. My AHR CZ loves that combo and will print a cloverleaf. It'll do about an inch with 286's and Speer 270.

DF

The Norma penetrated about 10" (through the shoulder and through one lobe of the lung but not to the heart) and did indeed mushroom fully so I completely admit that the close range, full value impact velocity and density of the animal contributed to the performance seen. I only recovered one of three bullets fired into the bison so it's another classic example of one. Still, none of the bullets reached the heart, which I would have considered to be good performance. All in all, the bull died in short order and when something that big only goes 15 yards it's hard to find fault with the result. I look forward to trying it out on a few more animals to see how it does on lighter fare at a bit greater distance.

My 9.3's, both built on FN Mauser actions, throw 250 gr X's at 2630 fps from their 24" barrels. No issue with bullet length. A fair load of African plain game were impressed with the combo.

Hi folks!
I am hunter from Bulgaria - country in eastern part of EUnion and a big fan of CZ550/9.3X62. Here this caliber is very popular.
So I start reload from soon and see in www Mule Deer`s data.
I prepare some for testing:
1
bullet-Sako hammerhead - 286gr
brass-RWS
powder - Ramshot BigGame-64.5grain
Primer: CCI 250
COL-3.305

2
bullet-Hornady interlock - 286gr
brass-RWS
powder - Ramshot BigGame-64.5grain
Primer: CCI 250
COL-3.291

3
bullet-Barness TSX FB- 286gr
brass-RWS
powder - Ramshot BigGame-64.5grain
Primer: CCI 250
COL-3.336

My question is about TSX - I have a problem to seat bullet more deep with 64.5grain Ramshot BigGame. I read that Mule Deer wrote that try around 65 gr Ramshot BigGame even with Barness TSX 286 gr, but not see right numbers - COL and grain of charges.


If some one of you use Barness TSX FB- 286gr with Ramshot BigGame or Hodgon Varget - plese send some data!
Sorry for my bad english language!

Welcome CZfan,

I have no data for you, and your English serves just fine. I just wanted to welcome you to our campfire.

Thanks for your input and please keep us informed of your results,

Geno

I think H4895 is closer to Varget than H4350. It's one of my favorite powders too.

After trying both Nosler and Barnes 286s with 66 grains of Big Game I settled on the Nosler because it was more accurate and the TSX got significantly less velocity than the Partition with the same powder charge. My 20.5 barrel was only getting 2300 with the barnes and slightly over 2400 with the nosler.

I see you're using CCI 250 magnum primers. I'd recommend trying the 200 large rifle. I tried both and found better acccuracy and consistency with the CCI 200.

I'll have to go dig through my notes regarding the COL of the barnes load, but I can tell you the partitions are seated so the groove on the bullet is right at the case mouth.

You seem to have excellent english so I'd recommend getting some John Barsness (Mule Deer here on the fire) books. There's some good 9.3x62 info to be had.

Добре дошли в лагерния огън.

It is always wise to reduce loads a bit and work up to the powder charge you expect to use. So if your goal is to shoot around 64 grains of powder, build a couple of loads of 61, 62, and 63 grains to make sure that there is nothing that is going to cause excessive pressure. There are variables in terms how the chamber is cut, and the loading components, and working up is therefore always advisable. Even if you have experience with a particular rifle, changing something as minor as the manufacturing lot of powder can make it wise to work up again.

Just found and read this entire thread. I have a Steyr Prohunter in 9.3x62. What bullets are proven to expand and work well on deer sized critters?

Thanks for all replays folks!
Here we do not have Nosler part. in stock.
Have Barnes TSX, Hornady Interlock, Sako Hammerhead, PPU, Norma all around 286gr. And RWS EVO -290gr.
Do you have some data for RWS EVO -290gr. with Ramshot BigGame or Varget?

I use CCI 250 and today bought CCI 200, so will try them with this charges too.

I plane to use 65-66 gr Ramshot BigGame, so will make some 63 gr and 61 gr loads for tests too.

CZfan,

I seat the 286 TSX so the cartridges just fit in the CZ 550 magazine. Big Game will be compressed, but still works reliably. I hope that helps!

ruraldoc,

I've seen a bunch of 9.3 bullets used from the 9.3x62 on deer-sized game, and all have expanded well: 232 Norma Oryx, 250 Barnes X (pre-TSX), 250 Hornady GMX, 250 Nosler AccuBond, 270 Speer Hot-Cor, 286 Hornady Interlock, 286 Norma Oryx and 286 Nosler Partition. The monolithics haven't killed as quickly with typical lung shots as the lead-cored bullets, but no animal went over 75 yards.

If I was going to pick just one of them for deer-sized game, it might be the 286 Hornady, just because it does the typical 9.3x62 job of killing well, while penetrating deeply without shooting up a bunch of meat, but doesn't cost much!

Thanks a lot!

Thanks for the reply. Does the Hornady factory load with their 286 grain bullet expand well on deer? The reason I ask is that they chronographed only about 2250 fps from my 23.6 inch Steyr Prohunter. I would use them at no more than about 200 yards. Tried them on my 260 yard steel deer target and they drop about a foot with a zero about two inches high at 100 yards. They don't shoot much flatter than my 35 Remington.

But there are plenty of places for me to hunt where I can't see over 200 yards and if they'll expand they ought to let the air out of deer and hogs pretty quick as well as leave a blood trail if anything gets out of sight.

Yeah, they should expand well even at that velocity. They're designed for the standard factory velocity for the 9.3x62, which is only 2360 fps.

The resurgence of this thread makes me want to load some ammo for mine, which I have never used. The barrel is for a Blaser R-93, with sights, scope is an all steel El Paso Weaver 3X from 1973 that has about an box of 30-30s under it's belt. Components on hand are a good choice of primers, 270 Hot Core, and Privi brass. I have not seen Varget or BG lately, but I do have 4350, 4895, and BLC-2 that might work.

My experience with mediums has mostly been with 338W and 338-06. The latter was my favorite, but I foolishly shipped them. I ran across this 9.3x62 barrel while looking for a replacement 338-06.

Thanks for the insight,

Jack

Since purchasing my CZ 9.3x62 a dozen or so years ago, my .338 Winchester and .375 H&H have been mostly gathering dust.

It has also impressed a few other people. Five years ago I went to Africa, and my partner made the popular choice of a .300 Winchester Magnum. After the hunt he bought his own 9.3x62.

Hey MD, do you believe the 320 gr Woodleigh PP soft at 2400 fps coupled with the 280 gr BBW#13 solid at the same speed and poi at 100 yards would be an effective set up.

I certainly do from limited experience, the solid may not even be legal in some locales, but had to develop it with the soft if not only to be complementary cool.

I believe it to be a lot of bang for the buck on the '06 sized case head.

Oh, yeah, that would work great at woods or thornbush ranges.

I worked up a similar load in my CZ, and the Woodleigh 320 shoots right to point of aim at 100 yards when 250/286's are two inches high. Unfortunately I haven't "field tested" it yet, but have seen enough Woodleighs in action to be impressed, especially the heavier bullets at moderate velocities.

Thanks MD, that's plenty good enough of a description for me to use them with confidence.
I shall go forth soon and test this old Heym mauser.

Thinking about trying them on another African jaunt?

Maybe so, I think it'd be excellent for Eland, bush pig and warthog inside 300 yards.

It certainly wouldn't extend their lifespans!

I'll gladly have to give em a go when the time comes, have never had a Woodleigh soft fail, and the info Ive read on the BBW #13 solids is outstanding across the caliber spectrum.

A "just for what it's worth" info bit:

Recently (April 27) I did my first test of the 320gr Woodleighs. I fired one of each starting at 61 to 66 grs RL-17. Up front, I'll say that all calculations had been previously done including QL. Here are the results:

1 - 61grs RL-17 = 2276 fps
2 - 62grs RL-17 = 2308 fps
3 - 63grs RL-17 = 2351 fps
4 - 64grs RL-17 = 2388 fps
5 - 65grs RL-17 = 2426 fps
6 - 66grs RL-17 = 2464 fps

*Add 10 fps for correction to muzzle.

Ambient temp was +5*C
Rifle: Tikka T3 Lite (22.4" barrel)
Primer: WLRM
Case:Hornady
COL = 3.37"

All cases were new and similar in appearance and extraction. Primer pockets were as new after cases were resized.

On May 18 three of those cartridges that had been reloaded for the second time contained 66grs RL-17 behind the 320gr Woodleigh PP. They were fired at our range and recorded: 2433, 2434 and 2428 fps. Add 10 for correction to muzzle. About 30 fps less than the first firing of a single load in new brass, on a day of slightly different ambient conditions in once fired brass is normal. But the point is that they were very consistent in MV, extraction and appearance. I then fired one containing 67grs RL-17 from new brass, all else equal. That one recorded 2475 fps (add 10). Again, all was "normal". I think any of those loads could be useful in hunting depending on range and the game. Probably the 66gr load will be my choice if I ever need or want to use it on anything.

Currently, the 250 AB is my goto load at about 2715 fps. It shoots 0.44 MOA. That's from 70grs RL-17 and is not max. Max is 71 grs at 2760 fps and MOA. On the other hand, the 286 NP is no slouch either at 2622 and MOA from RL-17.

Very good bears have been taken with each -- a single shot in Sept '13 from the 286 NP at 68 yards and one from the 250 last Oct.1st took a very nice bear at 85 yds.

The 9.3 X 62 has become my favorite medium-bore.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob,

you still have some rl17?

find out interesting those speed on the light tikka .....

I'm chewing on a 9.3 as well.

What vels are you guys getting with 286 gr Partitions with 24" barrels? Loads? What is recoil like compared to full house 250 gr (2500 ft/sec), 35 wh loads in an 8lb rifle?

Thanks.

Bob,

What pressures do you think you are at with those loads? They are fairly smoking those bullets out the end of the barrel.

How is case life after a couple of reloads?

Regards

66 Gr RS BG, 2517 FPS, 2539 FPS,2521 FPS, 286 GR Nosler Partition, 3 @.69" at 100 yards.

Lapua Cases CCI Std primer 22" Pac-Nor barrel 9.3 X 62 minimal case stretch and primers stay tight.

With RL 15 about 2400 FPS was max. RL 15 works better with 250 GR in my rifle.

For what it's worth, I started working with the 9.3x62 over a dozen years ago. The pressure limit for both CIP and SAAMI is very low, due to many old rifles in the cartridge, but I did some calculating with several formulas, comparing the powder room of the 9.3x62 with both the .35 Whelen and .375 H&H.

One difference, however, between the 9.3 and those two is a very long throat, common among cartridges of that era. Many early smokeless rounds (and the 9.3x62 was designed before the .375 and .35 Whelen) used heavy-for-caliber round-nosed bullets, hence the long throat, which tends to reduce peak pressures, especially with shorter, lighter spitzers.

Anyway, I calculated what sort of velocities the 9.3x62 would be capable of compared to the .35 Whelen and .375, taking into account powder room (it has somewhat more than the .35 Whelen) and bore diameter. Then I fooled with various newer powders until getting the calculated velocities. There were NO signs of excessive pressure, whether with 250 loaded to 2650 or so with RL-15 and Varget, or 286's at around 2500 with Big Game. (RL-17 wasn't around then, or I would have it tried it too.)

But to check my results, I also had Charlie Sisk test the loads with his Pressure Trace, using Norma factory ammo to adjust the results. (The PSI pressures from strain gauges are normally lower than with piezo equipment, the reason so many home-experimenters get such high velocities when "pressure testing." Many professionals use strain gauges, especially bullet companies, but they offset the results with piezo-tested "reference ammunition" from SAAMI.)

The results indicated the 9.3x62 handloads were in the 60,000 PSI range, which happens to be the SAAMI maximum average pressure for the .30-06.

Those are some very good numbers Bob, I don't have my load book handy but my loads with the 320's clock a little over 2400 fps, thinking I load mine at 65 grs of RL-17, it truly is a fun round to shoot and is off the charts efficient for the amount of power/performance that can be had on the '06 sized case.

According to QuickLoad about 64,000 psi. Also, from experience with several .338 Win Mags and a .340 Wby, I see no distinctions in effects on brass than in those two cartridges. Not all loads are pushed to max, however. I have a very good load for the 232 Oryx using RL-15 at about 2500 fps that shoots 1/2 MOA.

My top loads for the 250 AB and 286 NP are, again, based on psi for the .338 Win Mag at 64,000 psi which is produced by Tikka in the exact same rifle as my 9.3 X 62. Top load for the 250 AB is 2760 fps but I load to 2715 because accuracy is about 1/2 MOA vs MOA. The 286 NP shoots MOA regardless, whether at 2550 or 2620. As mentioned, I've shot two very good bears with those loads. One shot each and done.

As mentioned by JB, the 286 Hornady is a very good medium game bullet at around 2400. And easily sub-moa using RL-15.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I've used on game up to cow nilgai, which are about the size of cow elk, and considered maybe even a little tougher to kill. Shot one quartering toward me almost directly a couple years ago, at somewhere around 150 yards, if I recall correctly. Put the bullet inside the left shoulder and it exited the right rear ribs. The cow made a couple of crow-hops sideways and fell over dead, maybe 10 feet from where it was standing when the bullet hit. Not much meat damage, either--pretty typical of any sort of 286 in the 9.3x62.

It is without doubt one of my favourite cartridges in the safe. Those 286 grainers tend to work pretty well on our feral pigs and larger game.

Was going to take it on a camel hunt last year but given the terrain we were shooting in, opted for the 338 instead. I am sure it would have done an equally good job.

I just bought some RWS 9,3x62 EVO 18,8g and GECO 9.3X62 PLUS 255 GR bullets.Need some help from where to start with reload. I have RS Big Game and Varget powders.

If I were ever going to Africa again, it would likely be the only rifle I'd take.

Soon, I hope to shoot something worthy with those 320 Woodleigh PPs. The last time tried at the range, I shot two (trying to save some for a hunt) that recorded 2450 and 2451 fps (add 10 for correction to MV). That from RL-17. Primer pockets are v. tight after firing. But for hunting I either use new brass or once-fired only.

RL-17 is faster than H4350 but a bit slower than Big Game and MR2000. It's also less bulky than IMR4350. At a COL of 3.37", I have no trouble of loading up to 68grs behind the 320 Woodleigh in Hornady brass, though I've not tried 68 grs -- yet!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob, have you tried 4350 with the 320 gr at all? I know your work with RE17 has been pretty well accepted up this way, but wondering about the easier to find stuff.

My loads with the 320 gr Matrix have been closing in on 2300 fps, and 2500 with his 290 gr.

Ted

You bet CZ, and too me, 2400 fps with a 320 gr bullet is the pinnacle of efficiency in the 9.3-62mm, you're already there, when time allows, I'll be filing the rear express sight for the new load featuring the 280 gr BBW #13 solids, of course they're not needed, but cool as hell to have a mini rifle with both soft and solid loads just like one of the heavy big bores.

Hi Ted;

Sorry for the late reply but have been having some Internet problems. Hope they're resolved.

No, haven't tried 4350 of any flavor.
Still have 1/2 can of RL-17 and 2 on order already paid for. MR2000 is supposed to be very good according to a friend in N.Carolina. He'getting close to my ballistics from a 20.5" barrel. We correspond a lot. He has QL.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Good advice and good to know. Still an excellent thread, even though I sold my 9.3x62mm to Geno...

Hello all, I always enjoy reading this thread. I recently picked up 5 pounds of Re16 and wonder if anyone has any experience with this powder in the 9.3x62? I'm thinking it might work well considering the success some have had with Re17. I prefer to use the 286 Partition but recently got a good deal on four boxes of 250 TTSX's that I want to experiment with. Thanks for any insight any of you may have to offer.

Scott

I would think these PSI loads would be safe in a Rem 750 or M7400 barrelled to 9.3x62?

Would the 9.3/286's feed and function in the auto??

Brainstorming a re-barreled Rem auto with a 21" barrel and a stock shortened to 13".

(I have access to a inexpensive Rem 7400 in 06)

I'm guessing they'd work fine, but don't know of anybody who's tried that conversion.

I am in the midst of rebarreling two rifles, a 760 and a 7600 to 9.3X62, just for fun!

Had an inexpensive 742 in 30-06 that I stared down that road with, but changed direction. Besides all the extra work, I am just not much of a semi-auto guy.

I can tell you that the 742 fed a full mag of 286 gr Lapua Mega round nose into the chamber mouth just fine.



They would not go all the way, of course, but went far enough that I am convinced they would have gone all the way home if it were a '62 chamber.

Keep us posted on your project,
Ted

Ted,

Cool! that is what I am doing, "just for fun!"

I'm not a semi-auto guy either, but still, the idea interest me enough to do it.

I would think it would make a great Yukon Bruin Rifle!

What twist are you going with?

Yes a pump Rem 760 or 7600 in either 35 Whelen or 9.3 X 62 would make a great critter getter!

Don't have a 9.3x62 but tried Re16 in the very similar 9.3x66 (.370 SAKO). Re16 is less dense than Re17 so not as much will fit in the case.
The following is from a .370 SAKO not a 9.3x62:
286 Nosler - 70 gn Re16 - 2415fps (case full to neck)
286 Nosler - 70 gn Re17 - 2524fps (case less full)

So, in addition to filling the case too much, Re16 seems slower burning than Re17 in this cartridge. This might be reversed in other cartridges.

As an aside I estimated the relative bulk-density of available 4350-ish powders by filling an empty case, scraping it off even and weighing the contents.

Reloder 16 - 91.4 gn
IMR 4451 - 93.9 gn
IMR 4350 - 95.0 gn
H 4350 - 96.1 gn
Reloder 17 - 99.2 gn
Hunter - 101.7 gn
VV N550 - 102.9 gn

N550 gave good velocity with 250 TSX and 286 Noslers but accuracy wasn't as good as Reolder 17. Alliant 2000MR was excellent. Not yet finished working up loads with Big Game.

Cheers

Thanks wswolf. That's very interesting and what I was looking for. I appreciate your input.

Scott

tag to locate the thread again...

Hi Ted (and others interested);

I once owned a .35 Whelen in M7400 (Rem. semi-auto) for several years -- perhaps about six or seven. It was a GREAT rifle! As good, in fact, as any bolt-action I've owned in terms of strength, function and accuracy. Although it would not fired the 250gr Nosler Partition at the same MVs as the Hornady or Speer. But it would give over 2700 fps with good accuracy from the 225gr NP. There was never a jam or failure to extract "hot" loads either. And I didn't use small-base dies just regular RCBS. I shot a decent bl. bear at 100 yds using the 200gr X-bullet at an MV of 2800 fps. It blew out the opposite shoulder leaving bone fragments in the exit wound. Bear went 10 yards.

I personally think such an outfit in 9.3 X 62 would be "the cat's meow". As you may well know, TradeEx sells a pump in 9.3 X 62. It's pricy though.

Best wishes and a Merry Christmas.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

If any of you folks have a line on 232gr Oryx bullets, I sure would appreciate the lead.

I've been trying to get the 250gr AFrames to shoot but I've yet to get very good results with R17, 2000MR or Varget.

Gun loves the 286 TSX though...

Disregard.... Just now back in stock at Grafs.....

I too have a 370 Sako.
Used lot of different powders but RS Big Game is the best with a 250gr TSX for 2660 ft/s and the 286's(not TSX's) running ~2525-2500 ft/s in a 22.4"bbl.

Thanks for sharing Axtell.

I found a load with Big Game and 250TTSX which is promising but needs further testing. Haven't yet worked up past 2440 fps with 286 Noslers but they look promising as well. Reloder 17, N550 and 2000 MR are all excellent but I like the idea of temperature resistant powders.

Cheers

H4895 is in the range of usable powders and QLoad shows it to do well with 250s

Glad I read this thread again, I was about out of the 232g Norma's. Graff's has not had them for quite awhile. Got some on the way now. My go to deer round for the 9.3X62.
Merry Christmas all.

I test them on the end of big game hunting season, here !
My rifle - CZ 550 Medium lux, 9.3x62.

1st - group average 1.5`` on 10 o`clock from POA.
2nd - holes touch each other and less then 1 moa! Great - I have winner!
3rd - - group dbout 1.5`` on 11 o`clock from POA.

Temperature was -7 degreеs, under zero by degrees centigrade.
Speed - hrono do not work on range, because of cold weather batterys die There was no ANY sign of over pressure on brass in all 3 tested reloads!
I try and GECO 9.3X62 PLUS 255 GR bullets, but my barrel do not like them.
Now on turn is RWS Evolution. But do not have any data for them. I will try them with RS BG.

A time ago I see this post from member - writing_frog :

"PS: The Ramshot powders (Tac, Big Game, Hunter, Magnum) used by JB are franco/belgian powders we use under an other name with the same results as JB." and wonder - what are euro equivalent of Ramshot Big Game powder?
What is this "other name"?

I know that RS gunpouders are made in Belgium from this maker - http://www.pbclermont.be/. But do not know this "other name".
Is there some one used Reload Swiss RS® gunpowders for reloading 9.3X62?
I will try RS60 or RS52. Soon I will buy some Norma Orix 285gr bullets to reload them with Reload Swiss powders.

CZfan,

According to somebody with the on-line name "chamo" posted here a while back that Clermont markets some under the PCL label, and they're also sold by Vectan:

TAC = Vectan Sp7
Big Game = Vectan Sp11 or PCL 511
Hunter = PCL 518
Magnum = Vectan SP12 or PCL 517

Thanks Mule Deer!
In our country SP 11 is selling under Nobel Sport brand. Interesting thing is that 1 pound (454 grams)
RS BG is with prize about 54,6 USD.

400 grams Sp 11 is about 32 USD.

Johnn,

here is some links on equivalent for the powder and vectan.

https://www.grafs.com/uploads/technical-resource-pdf-file/24.pdf

http://wapenkamer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/VECTAN-2014.pdf

http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf

i ve contacted Nobel sport and will let you know what they say.

Phil

RS60 is made in Switzerland and rl17 too ...

I am going with a 14" twist. That is what I started with over 30 years ago, and it has always worked. Even 325 gr bullets stabilize well with that twist in the '62.

The project is chuggin' along. Removed the barrel extension from the factory barrel last week.



Ted

When I wrote RS gunpowders are made in Belgium I mean Ramshot powders.
I know that RS60 are from Reload Swiss RS®.
I will buy soon some RS60 and give it a try with RWS EVO and Norma Oryx-286gr.

Been away for a while... wondering how your semi-auto project is coming along?

My pumper thumper has ground to a halt. Was supposed to be THE winter project this year, but just too many irons in the fire.

We will get it done though.
Ted

I think that have winner with GECO 9.3X62 PLUS 255 GR!!!

Gun: CZ 550 medium lux 9.3X62
Temp.: 13 ℃ degree celsius
wind: 2.5m/s
light rain

bullet-GECO 9.3X62 PLUS 255 GR
brass-GECO
powder - Hodgon Varget -61 grain
Primer: CCI 200
COL-3.291``
result: sub moa
Vo= 2539 fps/774 m/s
chronoed with magneto speed.

That is FIRST ever ammo in 255 gr that my rifle shoot sub moa!

I still have problem to develop fine load with Barnes 286 gr tsx fb,
try it with Varget and RS Big game but do not have nice groups with speed I desire.

I need fine load with speed around 2362 fps.
If some one have data - please provide! it!!

i got only 2210fps at 12 paces from the muzzle with 54 grains of imr4064. hard to fit more powder in ...that speed is really at the low end for that strong bullet.

tag

From about a month our gunshops start to sell Hornady international in 9.3X62 with 286 gr InterLock® SP-RP bullet.
i like InterLock® SP-RP bullet in my rifle so buy box of factory ammo and put them otrough magneto speed.
This is data what I get&

Gun: CZ 550 medium lux 9.3X62, 60 sm barrel.
Temp.: 13 ℃ degree celsius
wind: 2.5m/s
light rain

av. Vo = 2231 fps/680 m/s
chronoed with magneto speed.
On box is written Vo= 2368 fps/722 m/s.
Factory ammo COL was 3.133``
I just wonder about this 137fps/42 m/s diference?

g5m,

how does one "tag" a thread to follow it at a later date? That is what "tag" implies, no?

Geno

That's something that I wish would DIE! I find it much easier to click on the Thread Options drop down menu at the top and select Follow Thread. All the threads/posts/forums you "follow" will be easy to find as they are all in the Follow List which is easily found on your My Stuff drop down list.

Pointer,

thanks,
just the type of answer I was looking for.

Geno

Valsad,
In this case, when someone writes "tag" in the thread, it just keeps the thread on the first page of the forum, it serves the same function as "ttt" (to the top) you see in the Classifieds. In order to follow a particular thread, open up the thread, look in the upper left corner for a small grey box that says "thread options", click on the grey box. A drop down menu appears, click on "follow thread". You then go to the "my stuff" menu and find "followed lists", click on "followed threads" and you're there. The forum seems to automatically add threads repeatedly opened, so it may already be there. Hope this helps.

ryoushi,
yep, thanks, I got it now.

sorta wish everyone would use the same terminology
I have known for a few years about
"bump"
then "ttt"
now "tag"

What's next?

Geno

Other standards are "Up" and "again."

Sometimes "An interesting thread, but I have nothing to say, so hope somebody else will" would seem to be the most appropriate.

Gun: CZ 550 medium lux 9.3X62, 60 sm barrel.
Temp.: 7 ℃ degree celsius
wind: 1.5m/s
Sun

bullet-Hornady interlock - 286gr
brass-RWS
powder - Ramshot BigGame-65grain
Primer: CCI 250
COL-3.366

av. Vo = 2543 fps/ 775 m/s
No sign of over pressure.
Moa groups
My barrel like this Hornady interlock - 286gr.

wswolf, did you find more data for or test 250 TTSX loads? I hope to be testing loads for that bullet as I have my rifle set up.

The loads below are for the .370 SAKO / 9.3x66 - NOT the 9.3x62!

Havn't done a lot of shooting with each load but here are my results with the 250 TTSX so far.
I consider these maximum loads and would reduce them by several grains for use in another rifle.
To be on the safe side I would not exceed 2700 fps with 250 gn or 2500 with 286 gn bullets.

IMR4166 (WLR primers): worked up to 65 gn/ 2720 fps and a 1.5" group. Lower charges gave very poor groups.

Varget (210 primers): worked up to 69 gn /2730 fps and a 1.2" group. WLR primers gave larger groups.

Big Game (215 primers): worked up to 72 gn/ 2696 fps and groups close to 1/2".

2000MR (WLR primers): worked up to 72.5 gn/ 2700 fps and 0.8" groups.

N550 (WLR primers): worked up to 75 gn/ 2700 fps and 0.8" groups.

Re17 (WLR primers): worked up to 74 gn/ 2670 fps and 1.5" groups.

All were loaded to 3.34" overall length and all loads were compressed, with the bullets .24" to .35" below the level of the powder.
I had hoped 4166 or Varget would produce the best groups because I don't like extremely compressed loads but so far Big Game is the winner and less temperature sensitive to boot.
I have not yet tried seating bullets deeper than 3.34" but give it a try with 4166 since it takes up the least space in the case.

Thanks for the reminder of your larger case. It's been hard to find info on loading that bullet, so I am still curious what you have learned.

Would you agree that the monolithic bullet has a really hard time matching muzzle velocity of same weight lead bullets? Others have seen notably slower velocities, much more than what I have experienced or read of from other calibers. That's a little disappointing as I am hoping to get the 250 TTSX going as fast as it can to aid its reach.

Keep in mind that mine are not large sample sizes and further testing at the same temperature, same primer could change the results.
Comparing 250 TTSX and 250 Accubond it seems that, depending on the powder, the Accubond produced 15 to nearly 50 fps higher velocity with the same powder charge.
I no problem with the TTSX matching Accubond velocity unless stuffing in a little extra powder becomes a barrier.

John Barsness wrote in Handloader 250 that, from his 9.3x62, he got 2636 fps with X-bullets and 62 gn Reloder 15 and 2651 fps with Accubond and 60.5 gn Varget.

you re pushing too fast that bullet ...

We have seen some pretty disappointing performance with the 286 gr Hornady bullet up here on big game. Accurate enough, but serious blowups and jackets shedding on anything hit up close. Certainly nothing close to the stellar performance of Normas or Noslers.

Wondering if we just got a bad batch, or if you guys' experience is similar.
Ted

Ted,

I've only used the 286 Interlock in Hornady factory load, listed at 2370 fps, which is apparently the modern standard for the 9.3x62 in 286-grain factory ammo, both in the U.S. and Europe. The biggest animal I took with it was a cow nilgai, about the size of a cow elk, say 450 pounds. The shot wasn't far, I'd guess somewhere around 125 yards, and the cow was almost facing me, quartering just a little. I put the bullet just inside the nearest shoulder, and it exited around the rear of the ribcage on the opposite side, leaving an exit hole about the diameter of my thumb. It performed pretty much perfectly at that velocity, which may be what the bullet's designed for.

Nilgai are supposed to be pretty hard to kill, but the cow crow-hopped about 10 feet sideways and fell over dead.

Tag

I have two 9.3x62 Mausers...

The Remington 721 (JES rebore) and barrel bob (20") shoots very well with cheap factory Prvi 285s...



I would love to clone this load... anyone know what powder Prvi uses?

--------------------------------

Second gun (CZ550)... picked up from 4Ager... along with a lot of pills (wide range of weights and pills).

A REAL LONG SHOT... anyone here the former owner of this gun and have any data... for it?

--------------------------------

Second question... anyone have any favorite H414 load data? Any pill weight is fine.

My stash of RE-17 is good/but finite...

I have a full jug of H414

No Varget or Big game

Thanks in advance

The Real Guns.com reloading page for the 9.3 X 62mm is now $30 a year subscription... as of 1-1-2018.

I've been using the full 60.5 grains load with a 250 grain Barnes but also use Hornady brass. I've found considerable more capacity in Hornady brass than European brass and that should lower pressures somewhat.

IMO the 9.3 X 62 suffers a bit in lack of bullet selection....especially if one decides to shoot lead free bullets. While the 250 grain TTSX might put a cape buffalo on the ground quickly, it is a bit much to my shoulder and so I've machined new lighter 225 grain TTSX from the heavier bullets.....It does work but I'm not at all sure it's worth it. I'd like Barnes (or someone) to come out with a 200 grain monometal.

I used the same load of 60.5 grains of varget with the 225 grain loads.....however it follows that one could increase the powder a bit.

here's a photo of alternating 250,225 grain bullets

Very slick and good info to boot.

Any idea as to how much more water the Hornady brass holds??

FWIW, CFE223 has been making 250's sing nicely for me.

vapodog,

Cutting Edge offers both 200 and 210-grain Raptors in 9.3mm. The 210 gets 2850 from my CZ using 66.0 RL-15, and that was far from pushing it.

we have to test them again.

Hello,

I am using, not on game yet, the Slovenian FOX, monometal, 220 grs bullet. In my BRNO ZKK 600 rifle is the most accurate bullet I have tried, loading them with R15, CCI 200 /250 primers, NORMA and/or RWS cases. Easy to reach 2800 f/s.

Thank you....I do appreciate that....but for nearly $2 each (shipped) I'll continue to machine my own. I'm a retired old fart and need a good project to keep me humming.

Sorry, but to avoid errors I trashed my S&B brass.....but the difference in capacity was surprising.....I like the Hornady brass.

I do use CFE223 in a .308 Winchester.....so can you say how much you use in the 9.3?

I wasn’t so interested in the S&B. I am using Lapua and I was wondering what the Hornady held.

I’ve been using 65.0 of CFE223 with a 215M behind the 250AB in Lapua brass. It yields 2625 out of a 20” barrel.
The load is warm in my rifle so normal cautionary approach is advised. It shows
exceptional accuracy and low SD. Quick load indicates it will yield highest velocity
of all powders given my parameters and seems to deliver such.

I'm new at this water measuring thing.....but have a substantial respect for quickload.....I just weighed a Hornady 9.3 X 62 fired case full of water.....the water weighs 74 grains.....

With that, can you tell me what a 200 grain bullet ahead of 63.0 grains of varget might have in velocity and what pressure it might generate.....I'd dearly appreciate it.

GS also makes a 195 9.3 bullet. Don’t know the price though.

The light weight .375 GS is reported to be an outstanding buff killer by one of the safari guides here. I imagine the 9.3 would be more of the same on near anything.

ETA- .366 195. they ain’t cheap either!

http://www.gscustomusa.com/orderhvusa.html

[quote] [GS also makes a 195 9.3 bullet. Don’t know the price though.

The light weight .375 GS is reported to be an outstanding buff killer by one of the safari guides here. I imagine the 9.3 would be more of the same on near anything.

ETA- .366 195. they ain’t cheap either!

http://www.gscustomusa.com/orderhvusa.html
/quote]

yousers....it makes me wonder what I'm not getting in the Barnes for a bit less than half the price.....

Happy to..... What is your barrel length?

4



24 inch

With a 210gr Raptor @ 3.291 OAL and 74gr capacity and 63.0gr of Varget, you should be in the neighborhood of 2815fps and 59k psi..... It shows to be 107% case capacity.

That's close to 3700 FT-LB energy.....and potential for more should one seek it.

Thank you....now to do some guessing as to BC and estimate trajectory....are we really allowed to have this much fun?.....LOL

I seems we have just turned the 9.3 X 62 into a mild recoiling plains game, elk, moose and even deer rifle and at the same time should one wish, he's ready for some serious confrontations with things that bite you....using heavier bullets of course. With the lighter bullet it carries almost 1500 ft-lb of energy to 400 yards. or so.......excellent!

For you with JES re-bore's, what twist and how many lands did you go with?

Three groove, 1/14 if I remember correctly. He will only do three grooves with the 9.3 as I recall. They shoot horribly however.....all the bullets go into one hole so I end up thinking my first shot was on and the rest are missing the target. It's horrible I say!

I finally tried some Ramshot big game in mine. 66 grains gave me 2,485 fps with ppu 285 grain bullet in my 22” barrel. Measured with magneto speed.

Just for interests sake:

I use, and have only used, Hornady brass for my 9.3 x 62. It has served me very well. No complaints -- except for a minor one. Occasionally, one of the new cases has a slight flange at the mouth where the brass was cut off. I discovered that early on in my reloading attempts. It would keep the case from going all the way into the chamber. Now, I just trim all new Hornady cases on principle. New cases never fired hold 76 grains water. Once fired and resized holds 77 grains water. I was also informed by an impeccable source, that came indirectly from Hornady, that their 9.3 x 62 cases were manufactured by S&B. Some have given me an argument over that since the carton containing the brass cases says "Made in the USA". That's not uncommon in some manufacturing these days. It states that on my boxes of Hornady brass as well. However, that was eight years ago and it's possible that matters have changed since then. There appears to be a significant distinction in the volume of certain brands of 9.3 x 62 brass -- it's important to know that when sharing information. As well, COL and primer brand, including whether the primer is "standard" or "magnum" is ALSO significant. Rifle make and barrel length come into play as well. Then, it would be helpful, and polite, to suggest what approximate pressure is being used. I have written reloading manuals on a few rifle cartridges, and ALL such information is critical. All of the following has previously been documented here and elsewhere: Rifle = TIKKA T3 Lite (RH) in 9.3 x 62. Weight with 3 - 9 x 40mm scope = 7.4 lbs (4 cartridges of 286gr = 7.7 lbs). Primer = WLRM. Brass = Hornady. COL = 3.37". Barrel length = 22.44" (570mm).

I have had excellent results from Hornady 9.3 x 62 cases regardless of who makes 'em. At pressures of 60,000 to 64,000 psi, I've reused them several times over without a problem. And then I reuse them again in developing lighter psi loads. However, as previously mentioned, I ONLY use new-unfired cases for hunting purposes. But sometimes once-fired cases get loaded for certain hunting applications where max loads aren't needed or wanted.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

<^>

I just wanted to add some of my findings to this conversation. All of my data has been collected using a caldwell ballistic chronograph. I bought my Zastava M70 Left Hand 9.3x62 after my father got a CZ FS in the same. I love the capability of this round and the more I reload, I realize that it may be one of the best cartridge cases that uses this bolt face. I WORKED UP TO ALL OF THESE LOADS, PLEASE DO THE SAME!

Privi Partisan Brass 77.1gr H2O virgin brass 77.6gr H20 fired capacity
CCi 250 primer
65gr Ramshot BigGame
3.293" OAL
286gr Swift A-frame
2543fps -probably above maximum slight click on bolt lift

Privi Brass
CCi 200
65gr Ramshot BigGame
3.293" OAL
286gr Swift A-frame
2506fps- no bolt click and all holes touching -$$$- (I found that after 4-5 firings the primers were still tight but I needed to bump the shoulder back 0.002" to eliminate hard close and open of the bolt)

Privi brass
CCi 250
65gr Ramshot BigGame
3.300" OAL
270gr Speer
2523fps- within 1MOA POI from Swift groups and <1MOA precision

Privi brass
CCi 200
65gr Ramshot BigGame
3.293" OAL
285gr Norma Alaska
2473fps- very accurate bullet- my rifle really likes it.

As a note, I tried the Nosler Partition 286gr as well and it was not quite as accurate for me but hovered just around 1MOA with the 65gr Ramshot load

Here is where I did a lot of math and inferring- please work up loads to this level (I started at 64 grains)
CCi 250
285gr Norma Alaska Bullet
3.362" OAL (this leaves 0.326" bullet shank in the neck and increases case capacity 1.85gr versus 3.291" OAL")
68gr Reloder 17
2530fps - I took my largest deer ever with this load. He dropped in his tracks at a high shoulder shot 167yds.

I wanted to try the better BC 250 bullets so I got both barnes TTSX and Nosler Accubond
I noted that even at the highest powder charges the recoil was significantly less with 250 grain bullets

Privi brass 192.7gr wt
3.465" = maximum OAL to lands
Maximum magazine length 3.390"

250 Barnes TTSX
60.5gr Varget
Winchester LRP
2530fps very accurate low SD -much slower than expected
3.385" OAL

250 Barnes TTSX
65gr CFE223 - (I started at 61.5gr- 2524fps and worked up to 65.5- 2649fps all primers were round)
CCi 250
2629fps ES-10fps just over 1MOA


250 Barnes TTSX
65gr CFE223
WLR primer
2645fps ES-31fps just over 1MOA (2 touching 1 out)

250 Nosler accubond
65gr CFE 223
WLR primer
2620fps ES-12
2.765" CBTO (using 35 cal ogive die)


Going forward, I am going to have my stock bedded and will be working with the Alaska bullet and the Nosler Accubond bullet exclusively. I hope to hunt Elk or Mule Deer this fall with this rifle and its 3-9X40 VX-r scope. Sorry for the long post but I hope that people can draw info from my experiences.

I just got me some dies for Christmas .
I plan on using Big Game (maybe try hunter) as I have 8lbs of each. Will Loading with 250 accubonds.
I am planning on starting at 60 grains of BG and working .5 increments up to 64 gr.
Rifle is sauer 100.
My Question, Do the 250 accubonds or 9.3 like little jump or closer to lands or it just depends per rifle.
Thanks in advance

I have no experience with Hunter in my 9.3, but I would advise using Varget with 250s and saving the Big Game for 286s.

Call me boring, but several years ago when I had a 9.3X62 built, I wanted loads for 250s and 286s.

JBs 250 load was either RL15 or Varget for 2650 fps. With the Accubond his RL15 load went easily under MOA and ten shots averaged 2647 fps with tiny velocity spread in my rifle.

With 286 NPs, his 65-66 grains of Big Game for a supposed 2475 fps? In my rifle 66 grains clocks 2470 fps and shoots inside the 250 grain load. Better accuracy and same point of impact.

As far as seating depth, my rifle has a bullet diameter but longer European type throat so I couldn't measure off the lands like I normally do. So I simply seated them both to OALs typical for the 3.38" mag box.

Load development DONE.

Unless a guy loves chasing handloading minutiae for entertainment value, which I get, why complicate things?

thanks
I'm going to be using the powders I have for now. Im getting my start load data from this.

With their 286 Big Game data, they are beating my load by 75 fps with 4 grains less powder. My barrel is a 12-twist 22 1/2" Pac Nor. Safe to say they are using historic, and low, pressure levels.

Edited: I hope you are using a chronograph? Might not be getting what you think you are getting for velocity sans it.

I do have a chrono and will put it to use and report back.

Been waiting on some measuring components. I like to measure to CBTO vs COAL.
My only ammo I have shot out of my Sauer 100 are the S&B 285s. re loading the once fired brass. 285s are 2.756 to ogive, the Accubonds are 2.600
I trimmed my case to book specs. 2.431, I wish I would have left it at max of 2.441 after getting my chamber gauge, I guess can leave little more meat on the case for next time. loaded up with big game for next weekend.
Wondering if it's ok to have the bullet stick out as much as it does past the cannelure.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Itjakst.jpg?1[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/TY1sWRp.jpg?1[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/XCJxDXJ.jpg?1[/img]

took out some loads this morning. I have to say, I am not impressed or maybe embarrassed a little? there were lots of variations and not consistent. velocity or some loads were off the paper and some were perfect. I'll post a pic the best one and it's the max load of 63.5 of big game from ramshot. no where near the velocity of their published data. I was really hoping to be over 2500.
Rifle sauer 100 xt, Monarch 2.5-10x42 in talleys.
I will look into the 62 and 63.5 gr loads and play with seating depth.
60gr 2368-2372 fps
60.5 2302-2393
61 2380-2398
61.5 2402-2433
62 2433-2478 good group
62.5 2424-2446
63 2433-2469
63.5 2455-2473 best group
64 2455-2482

[img]https://i.imgur.com/gkYkgG5.jpg?1[/img]

Big game is going to shoot a ton better when you get above those computer generated loads western lists

Also what primer ?

CCI large rifle #200

Dre,

What jmd025 posted--which is essentially what I posted before in response to your questions You're still not anywhere near the best operating pressure for Big Game, and that still means a SAFE operating pressure. That's indicated by the velocities you're getting.

One of the problems involved with century+ rounds is throat length varies considerably, which affects pressure (and hence velocity) considerably.

Big game isn’t designed nor will it perform worth a flip at conservative , old school 9.3x62 pressure levels .
They are the way they are for safety in old guns . Big game needs modern pressures . That’s why it performs better with heavier projectiles as well . In modern guns , you can get there , but the load isn’t in a book (unless you bought Gun Gack )




Once upon a time I tried some light loads with Hybrid 100v in another cartridge ... same results , flat sucked at low pressures .

Yes, Sir, as in John's observations.

Ted

Thanks everyone for the replies.
I also have hunter laying around for my 270 and tac for my 223. Which one should I try?
Also when I got upto 64 grains I’m not sure how much more capacity I had left....looked pretty full.. I didn’t want to compress the load.
So should I go to 65, 66 with BG?
Or just invest in varget or rl15?

Compress it

A drop tube helps too.

Well my rebore by JES in my Remington 03A3 shoots super! Loaded some Woodleigde bullets 250 gr. bullets is grouping nicely and it's a 4 groove, so don't know why pabucktail says he only does 3 groove in 9.3 ? One hole works for me! Tried some Big Game was ok and shooting Varget with the 250's doing great, but it does have a thump! CCI 250 primers just about to get it dialed in and going to shoot some hogs next week in OK to see how it does. Those Woodleidge bullets ain't cheap! Taking it to Romania this fall to shoot Roe buck, fallow and boars!

Dre how do you like the sauer 100 xt? Really thinking about ordering one myself to just use the 250's with. Will keep shooting 286's with 65 grains of big game in my old mauser with red dot. It flat hammers deer. But not wanting to get a new bolt put on for scope use. So really thinking about the sauer. Your first person I've seen using one , so figured I'd ask how you like it?

If it were me and doing it again .

https://www.eurooptic.com/Tikka-T3x-Battue-93-x-62.aspx

What is it about the 100 xt that you don't care for, If you don't mind me asking.

Aftermarket accessories are available
Nothing for the xt at this time

tag

I still use JB's data in a CZ550 like his, still does the exact same things, and still seems to kill whatever I shoot at.

My Sauer 100 9.3x62 is shooting 1/2" @100yds and 2" @400yds. I know it shoots alot better than this old wore out hunting guide can. Good Luck!

RL-17 works best with compressed loads as well.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

A few questions preceeded by my background:

background:

I'm a new handloader. Literally, just yesterday, I finished loading my first 9.3x62 loads. I've yet to shoot them. I've found throughout the last few months of researching handloading components, procedures, and recipes all to be fairly confusing and not well outlined for the noob. I persisted and here I am.

It seems to me that one of the tenants of handloading is never to exceed max published loads for fear of death and to work your way up. Yet, here in this thread, most loads are well above the MAX loads in any reloading manual. There is also talk of older pressure standards, stronger actions, and modern powders.

I'm reloading 9.3x62 mauser rounds using PPV brass, WLR primers, 286g Hornady Interlock spire point bullets, and a combination of Varget and BigGame powders for a Husqvarna 1640 rifle made in 1959 with a 19.5" barrel. I'm in Alaska and this would be used on moose and black bear.

I'm looking to achieve the most accurate load with at least 2350 ft/sec with a 286g bullet from this 19.5" barrel.

My 18 (3 of each of the below) starting loads are:

53.5g, 55.5g, & 57.5g of Varget and

56g, 58g, & 60g of BigGame.

Questions:

Am I going to die because my rifle explodes in my face?

I stuck to published charges based on the 'fear of death', however I'd like to increase charges especially in BigGame to the 64/65g range if my rifle can handle it. Does anyone see any issues with that if all pressure signs are absent and I'm still below my target velocity?

Thanks for letting me live.

Based on experience with several 9.3x62 rifles (including a 20.5" barreled CZ full-stocked rifle, and an old Husqvarna)) you are not going to blow up your rifle with those loads! In fact, I doubt you will even notice any difference in bolt-lift between shooting your ammo and opening the bolt on an empty chamber.

But I also doubt they will get close to 2350 fps. Whether that matters is another question. Have used the Hornady factory load (listed at 2360, if I recall correctly, but did not chronograph it in that particular rifle) their 286-grain Interlock Spire Point on a cow nilgai (about the size of an average cow elk, say 400 pounds) standing almost directly facing me at around 150 yards. Nilgai are one of those animals that are supposedly very hard to kill, but at the shot the cow crow-hopped maybe 10 feet and fell over dead. The bullet had entered just inside the right shoulder, and exited around the rear of the ribs on the left side.

Do you own a chronograph?

I don't own a chronograph, but plan to rent one at the range, and work up powder charges from there. I do have high hopes for the BigGame powder and anything over 2200 is a WIN in my book (as the factory PPV stuff I shoot now is listed at 2200mv and is $40/box here). My magazine length is fairly short as I'm limited to a 3.330 COAL, even though when I measured the 'chamber distance to the lands?' it came to 3.442. Which brings me to another question: as the published max COAL's are 3.290 what are the consequences of maxing out my mag length to 3.330?

Any experience with the speer hotcores vs privi vs hornady SP's as far as these softer bullets providing maximum penetration? They seem to be rather affordable.

I would pick the Hornady for an inexpensive bullet at moderate velocity. It holds together really well. The Privi also might, but have not used it so dunno. On the other hand, one the virtues of the 9.3x62 in its early days was the very moderate muzzle velocity, which when combined with plenty of bullet weight and sectional density (far more important back then than today) resulted in dependable penetration--the reason it has survived until now--along with a number of other older rounds, including the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5x55, 7x57, .303 British, etc.

Usually 9,3x62's have very long throat length, a by-product of the time. The rounds was designed to fit in the standard Model 98 Mauser magazine length of 3.30 inches--and the bullets could NOT be seated anywhere near the lands at that length. They still can't, even in somewhat longer magazines, but the standard throat is so long that doesn't make enough difference in pressure to consider "dangerous."

My experience with the Speer 270 hrs has been completely satisfactory, as has been with every other bullet I have used on big game except the Hornady.

Seems there are no small number of guys with the same Hornady experience up here. It is very accurate, but always comes apart on heavy game.

Maybe they sent all the bad ones up here.
Ted

The good news is animals still died. Bad news is there is an inordinate amount of jellied bloodshot meat.

Ted

Was the bad experience with Hornady in the 9.3x62 or something else? A little surprised given the very mild velocity of the 9.3x62, I figured almost any cup and core would do.

Have also heard from others who have used the Speer on big game that it's considerably softer than the 286 Hornady--which is what my "media" tests show, whether both are loaded to "traditional" velocities or somewhat faster. Of course, core hardness and jacket variations from lot to lot can make considerable difference in cup-and-core expansion and penetration.

Which is why I generally bypass the entire problem by avoiding using cup-and-core bullets on larger game. I mean, how many damn moose or elk or "big" bears do we shoot a year? Is the difference in price between a box of C&C's and a box of Barnes TSX's, Norma Oryxes or Nosler Partitions going to make a difference in whether we can afford to to go hunting?

Exactly. I settled on Matrix bonded cores while they were still available. Have enough to last the rest of my hunting days.

No doubt a 285gr Partition will work just as well.
Ted

You nailed it, John.

I remember guys in new uber-trucks, pulling many feet of Airstreams that would roar up to the store and ask for a box of the cheapest 30-06/300Win/7Mag ammo we had, as they headed to Colorado or New Mexico, going on guided elk hunts.

Go figure.

BTW, I shot a lot with the Speer 270 bullets back when they were all we could find. They worked about like WW Power Points.

Thanks, Bruce.

I have also found Speer Hot-Cors to work about like Winchester Power-Points. Nothing wrong with that--but nothing exceptional either.

On the other hand, often use C&C bullets to start working up loads, before switching to more expensive premiums for the final tweaking.

thanks for the pointers. This thread is great. I'll probably switch to partition once i use these up. Included in the purchase of the gun were 24 Hornady Interlock SPs and a handful of 300g DGSs. I know that many are using 64g of RamShot for their loads and because I only have a few left I may work up the rest of the bullets to that charge and see what happens.

Did this great thread get "stickied" somewhere? I would hope a moderator would do that for us. Here or in the reloading forum? Thanks and Be Well, RZ.

I found old notes telling me I got 2285 FPS with 55.0 Varget and 2320 with 56.0 Varget and the Hornady 286 gr. That would have been a warm summer day in my Ruger No.1 with a 22” barrel.

If I wanted to up the oomph I went with Big Game or RL17 but nowadays I’m content to hang anywhere in the 2200’s with a good 286’er. (All 4 of my 9.3s are open sighted so ‘long range trajectory bothers me none).

Guy in the 8 second clip was shooting quite well. Imagine how many seconds he could cut off his shooting time by not lifting his head off the gun! Not a flaming arrow, simply meant as constructive. Thanks and Be Well, Rusty.

I've seen the Barnes 286TSX from a CZ 550FS used on a huge, fat 300# hog up close. hammered it. I had loaded the 286 Partition for a rebarreled Mod 70 FWT (Lothar Walther barrel) gave the rifle to a young man who shot a big spike elk around 50yds....which his shoulder was behind a thick screen of Buck Brush. Pow, complete penetration! So, cheap bullets for practice and deer size stuff, Premiums for Big Game. The reason I gave both rifles away is, "for me" the 9.3x62 just isn't as flat shooting as a properly loaded 35 Welen AI ( comparable) but this is on elk here in the mountains. I had no access to 250gr bullets back then. I wonder if the 9.3x62 kicks hard in that Husky? I see them every now and then for under $400. But the stock has a "lot" of drop at the heel!

this isn't really incredible news based on all the posts, but using tips from Bob CZ550 I just finished load testing on my CZ550 20.5" barrel, with a suppressor, using R17

250accubound 1/4-3/8" groups, 2670fps

286 part 1/2" groups 2500fps, 1" group w hot load 2600fps

250ttsx 3/4" group 2635fps

I can get more speed, but shooting thru the same hole is cool

kinda crazy really, the accuracy and horsepower

MtnT
How many grains RL17 are you using with the 250ttsx. Have you found the RL17 to be heat sensitivite? Been using varget, I’ve got some RL17 to use up.

I am not the smartest handloader so be careful

my magazine on the CZ550 is extra long, 3.47"; and apparently a long throat to match, came like that from the factory

so I am loading to 3.44 OAL to fit more powder and lower pressures

It gives it kind of a Creedmore look

So with that said: magnum primer, 68g r17, 3.44 oal, quickload calc'd pressure just under 62k

I started ladder loads at 64g, all the loads grouped less than 1 1/4"

MtnT,

All 9,3x62s have long throats, like most smokeless cartridges that were designed back in the day when heavy, round-nosed bullets were pretty much the rule, whether for military or sporting rifles. But the CZ magazine is indeed longer than the original standard magazine length: The round was designed to work in the standard K98 Mauser military action, which typical has a 3.30 inch magazine, so it is indeed possible to crowd some more powder in there, especially with spitzer bullets.

One of the reasons I use Big Game with 286s with 9,3x62 is have found it less temperature sensitive than R17--and not just in that application but every other combination I've tried. Since it's s spherical powder, you can also get a lot inside the case, even with very long bullets like the 286-grain Barnes TSX.

my goto 286g load calcs at 52k
what is this temp sensitivity going to do to this load ?
64g R17

increased pressure? speed faster than planned?

Dunno until you try it at different temperatures.

Since I live in Montana, my primary concern is real cold, from zero Fahrenheit on down to maybe -30. But have also used that load in 100+ degree temperatures in Africa.

Usually increased (or decreased) pressure/velocity isn't the problem in itself. Instead its a potential significant change in point of impact at 100 yards, which can be in any direction. Often this doesn't happen, even if muzzle velocity changes 100 fps or even more, but sometimes it does. You never know until you try it at various temps in your rifle. Which is one reason I prefer Big Game for heavier bullets. (With 250's I use Varget, which gets 2650-2700, depending on the specific bullet.)

All of this is explained in far more detail in THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK II, which also lists the results of a bunch of loads at different temperatures in cartridges from the .17 Hornet to .375 H&H.

I will buy the book and the powder
My goal is to have a suppressed 9.3 that shoots 250grain accubonds less than an inch and has 4000lb energy at the muzzle

2nd goal 286g partions at the 4000ft-lb level and tight groups

I want to put a turret scope on and use the 250g for my go-to elk rifle
And have the rifle dangerous game ready for Namibia, 5400joules, 3980ft-lb minimum

So far I made those goals, as a complete amateur with an off the shelf rifle

I will try those powders, what primer is recommended?

What powder is recommended if I wanted to try 325g oryx norma? How about for solids?
Looking for 2350fps w the 325’s

Thank you for your suggestions btw

Norma 325 grain Oryx, burning N550 62.0 grains, all just under an inch.
2,339
2,331
2,318

Don’t think you’ll need the turret. You’ll find John’s load 250ttsx and 60 gr. Varget plenty adequate up to 500 yds. with practice.
Norma 230 gr ecostrike is no slouch neither. Toting an 8lb 9.3 up the mountain just makes life easier.

5/14/20 UPDATE:

Thanks for all the advice. I finally got out today to the range to shoot the loads I made up and based on my typing speed, my hands are still here.

Here’s the data:

Conditions were sunny, 60F, LtoR gusting headwind @3-10mph, target was moving back and forth....
50yd target, 1959 Husqvarna, 19.5” barrel, mounted with a 1-4x20 Leupold scope

Varget:286g HSP:WLR primer: COAL 3.298

53.5g:2170fps avg:1 2/16” group
55.5g:2245fps avg:1 4/16” group
57.5g:2308 FPS avg:1 10/16” group

Big Game:286g HSP:WLR primer: COAL 3.292

56g:2065fps avg: 1 4/16” group
58g:2112fps avg: 2 10/16” group
60g:2242fps avg:1 8/16” group
62g: 2345fps avg: 2 9/16” group
63g: 2394fps avg: 1 10/16” group
64g: 2386fps avg: 1 12/16” group

Yeah yeah yeah....I didn’t use the lowest common denominator....blah blah blah....

So the target would sway back and forth as the wind gusted...and I was using a 4X scope....and I didn’t clean the barrel or let the barrel fully cool off between group sets...so accuracy could be improved...

Takeaways:

Seems to be that 63g of BigGame is the ticket. I had max velocity and an OK group.
Don’t exceed 63g of BigGame as the velocity drops and your max load has been reached?
I had no signs of pressure (although these were my first shots at reloading) as the primers all appeared to be uniform and good and no sticky bolt lift was experienced.
Any velocity over 2250 caused my safety to slide back into the SAFE position, which I thought at first was a stuck bolt. This could present a problem with follow up shots, but nothing a gunsmith shouldn’t be able to remedy....?
I have a suspicion that my data for 62g of Big Game could be an outlier.

Future steps:

Take Varget a step further and throw some lead with 57g-58g-59g. I’d like to see pressure signs, vel decrease, or reduced accuracy before stopping. This will depend on case capacity I suppose...
Play with the COAL with BigGame at 63g and see if that changes anything.
Clean the barrel between switching powders.
ANY OTHERS??????


My goal with this rifle is for moose, within 150yds, and with open sights. Hitting a 2’ diameter circle offhand at 150yds is all I need. I’d like to stick with 286g bullets for their SD and maintain a velocity of at least 2300fps.

County range is finally reopeneing at least on a limited basis. Tomorrow I expect to try out the loads derived here:
Using Mule Deer's Rules in the 9.3x62
I'll report back!
Cheers,
Rex

I've actually had two range sessions with the 9.3x62 since posting the above. All the work with 2000-MR was on the first trip. Here is the short version:
- I missed the velocity predictions by about 50 FPS with both the 286 Partition and the 250 NAB.
- Pressures with both the "max" loads were about equal to the Lapua factory 286 Mega (based on CHE)
- Accuracy with the 250 NAB/2000-MR was not quite as good as that from 250 NAB/Varget that I got on the first trip to the range with this rifle.

The long version:
Attempting to use John's rules of thumb to replicate the success of 2000-MR in my 35 Whelen AI predicted ~67.8/2000-MR for ~2670 FPS with the 250 NAB, and ~63.5/2000-MR for ~2500 FPS with the 286 Partition.
I worked up to both of those as follows and the velocities, group size, and CHE are also included (I measure to 4 decimal places with my blade mic for CHE - where 5 decimal places are shown, it's from averaging 3 rounds' CHE) Cases were new unfired Lapua, primers were CC!200, and all rounds were loaded to 3.375", which placed them over .200" off the lands in my long (standard) throat:
Bullet Charge Vel./SD Group (100yd) CHE
286 PT 61.5 2329/3 1.50" .00073
" 62.5 2396/6 3.13" .0010
" 63.5 2440/13 1.86" .0009
250 AB 66 2542/14 1.66" .00067
" 67 2594/13 1.94" .00067
" 67.8 2621/15 0.95" .0008

EDIT: Sorry these look so sloppy - I had them all nice and neat with the right spaces, but those extra spaces were dumped when I hit "send"

Of note - I also took CHE on Lapua Factory 285 Mega, and it was .00083" with 2254 FPS and SD 19.
- There were no traditional pressure signs.
- No idea what happened to the second round of the second 286 PT it landed about 2 inches at 1:00 from all the other 286 PT rounds in the three groups.
- It looks like it would take just about another grain to hit the target velocities, and I suspect the associated pressures would be fine based on CHE comparison to the factory stuff. I know CHE is not a stand-alone tool but I think it can be useful for comparisons when other factors are considered as well.

Hope this helps anyone wanting to use PP 2000-MR in the Nine-Three.

Cheers,
Rex

Guys:

I went out in warmer weather to check the difference w R17, accubounds, from winter shooting as discussed earlier in the thread
my bone stock CZ550 shot a 0.45" group, 2 thru the same hole 0.16" apart, and the flyer that opened it up to 0.45". There was a 7-10mph variable cross wind.
I wish I knew how to upload pic's

I tried Varget earlier in the year and didn't get the velocity I am looking for, nor did it tighten up the group LOL

yesterday I fired a fouling shot, three for accuracy, then a couple at the 400y target, and went home

[quote=MtnT]Guys:

I went out in warmer weather to check the difference w R17, accubounds, from winter shooting as discussed earlier in the thread ...

/quote]

So what was the difference? Did you compare velocity? Or just accuracy? Speaking of accuracy, sounds like you got a bunch of it! What was your load with the 250 AB and RL-17? I just got a pound of RL-17 and hoping to try it with 286 PTs - didn't know it was that good with ABs.

Thanks & nice shooting,
Rex

I wasn't getting good readings from the chrono

I am shooting the "CZ550" load suggested by Bob Mitchell, he has a blog on this

New Hornady Brass
Winchester Mag Primer
70g R17
3.37 OAL

re Temperature, this is my take: get your load sorted out when the temps are similar to your hunting season. I am not sure if the 20-40d F variation is enough to worry about that you could see during the season. If your hunting hogs in Texas in July, then late season deer in Saskatchewan, taking 400+ yard shots, you may need to compensate, I read in another forum velocity difference is 1fps per degree temp with r17.

On another note, using V550, per someone's recommendation, I loaded +p 325g ORYX bullets. Grouped just over an inch, maybe it would do better, but my trembling after the first shot could have thrown me off. If there is a need for detached retinas and a concussion, shoot this from a 7lb rifle prone

I calc these loads on quickload, CZ550 has probably posted load data for the 286part somewhere, these are +p+ loads that he posts

I also use the 232 grain but in the UK can bullet. Does very well on deer and wild hogs.

Do you recall which one? Trying to develop some loads for the FS with AB

Mule Deer,

I haven't got time to read all 16 pages but would your 9.3x62 data be applicable to a Ruger No.1?

Thanks muchly.

Put the paddles to this thread because I have an interest in the heavy 9.3mm Woodleigh Weldcore bullets.

This got me thinkin' about'em again.



Looked at the 320 gr. Weldcore SP when initially acquiring bullets for the new 9.3x62mm cartridge, but at the time they were relatively expensive and thought to be sub-optimal compared to the 286 gr. fodder.

FF/today, they are a relative bargain. (although right now MidwayUSA has .366/250 gr. NOSLER AB's for $40.10/50 box)

So, am again thinkin'bout the 320 gr. Weldcore SP, at ~ 2300 fps/24" Bbl., ahead of one of the IMR/H 4350 powders and CCI 200 primers.

Any performance value for North American Large/Dangerous game over Big Game/286 gr. A-frame/Oryx at ~ 2400 fps.?

Used as a woods/< 100 yd. stopping round.





GR

Yeah, it is. Especially since the No. 1 is one of the strongest actions out there.

Somethingsfishy. I was going to tell you the cartridge and gun combination with 9.3X62 will withstand more recoil than you can desire. IT WILL KICK YOU! And detached retinas are not needed when you can prevent it. You see this information on the previous page. I found the 9.3 to kill whitetails at any velocity where I can get minute of deer. Who needs recoil? Be Well, RZ.

It was a Nosler factory load, which wouldn't be much use to you 15 years later.

Any input on the 320 gr. Weldcore SP at ~ 2300 fps/24" Bbl., ahead of one of the IMR/H 4350 powders and CCI 200 primers?

Any performance value for North American Large/Dangerous game over Big Game/286 gr. A-frame/Oryx at ~ 2400 fps.?

Thanks




GR

Have never tried the 320 with anything other than Big Game, which got around 2350 fps from the 23.6" (60com) barrel of my CZ 550. Have never hunted with the load, as have found 286's more than adequate--and of the 286's I've used the Partition penetrated deepest, so have mostly used it.

The Partition retains about as much weight as the bonded-core 286 Oryx and A-Frame, but doesn't open as widely, which is the other major factor in penetration aside from retained weight. Have also used the 250 TSX, which doesn't penetrate quite as deeply as the 286 Partition in my media testing, but comes very close. In more open country I prefer using 250s loaded to around 2650, since they have a trajectory very similar to the 180-grain .30-06 and 270-grain .375 H&H loads, a definite advantage beyond 200 yards.

Thanks MD.

Will keep the NP/TSX in mind, but as is, am stocked w/ Hot-Cor, Oryx, and A-Frames for field loads.

Thinkin' about a dedicated woods/stopping round. The 320 Weldcore SP looked right.

Will also stick w/ the Big Game powder, common w/ the other 270-286 gr. bullets.




GR

It's lookin' like ~ 2260 fps MV for the 320 gr RNSP Weldcore is about right for a woods/stopping round.

W/ the recommended impact velocity of 2200-2000, and a minimum of 1800?

It hits those numbers at 25, 100, and 200 yds, respectively.


Thinkin' that maybe Varget might be a better powder for this mid-power loading.

Thoughts?




GR

If that's what you want to do with the 9.3x62, then be my guest. After using it for 20 years on game up to 1200-1500 pounds, I've yet to find a need for a special close-range load, since 250-286 grain bullets worked just fine at sub-100 yard ranges.

JB. I trust your opinion that the 9.3x62 is a great cartridge but it seems to me that it’s handicapped by not being the legal minimum caliber in most of Africa for dangerous game and more gun than needed for most other hunting but at the same time not flat enough shooting compared to a 300 magnum for larger non dangerous game at longer ranges. It’s more of a political thing than a fault of the cartridge but given that what are your preferred hunting uses for the 9.3x62? I can see it nocking the snot out of an elk or moose at moderate range but you would be limiting your effective range compared to some other lighter rifles with less recoil. It seems like it’s great niche would be as a dual purpose larger plains game and dangerous game cartridge but it’s legally limited in what it can do there.

Actually, the 9.3x62 is more generally "legal" in African than generally supposed--partly because local regs are rather loose. I was given the go-ahead to use mine on buffalo by the "game ranger" when hunting in the Selous in Tanzania in 2011 (where its supposedly not legal), partly because he'd seen how well it worked on bigger plains game. I'd already taken one buffalo with my .416 Rigby, so started carrying the 9.3 instead--but did not find a bigger bull so didn't pull the trigger. (Did find one with a broken horn. Probably should have culled him, but that's hindsight.)

Since acquiring my CZ 9.3x62 around 20 years ago, neither my .338 Winchester Magnum or .375 H&H (both on commercial Mauser actions) have gotten any use, since I have found the 9.3 at least as effective with 250+ grain bullets on the same sorts of game, with noticeably less recoil.

Locally I tend to carry it more these days, because we have far more grizzlies than we used to. Plus, it holds 5 rounds in the magazine, instead of the typical 3 of .338s, .375s or other magnums. This might never make a difference, but there it is.

BUT, MD, it MIGHT make a diff

Jerry

PS: those 2 xtra rounds would be comforting if nothing ele.

Jerry

PPS, plus, the 9.3x62 feeds quicker and smoother than about any other cartridge i've fooled with.

Makes sense. Thanks for the feedback guys and detailed explanation JB.

The 9.3x62 not only has replaced my .375 generally, but it's such a great general purpose chambering I've come to think of it as my "Alaska '06". With 286's it basically becomes a six shot .375 and I've had some times where I used up those six rounds. With 250's it shoots plenty flat for any purpose myself or many other hunters need a big game rifle for.

Anyone who thinks the 9.3x62 doesn’t shoot flat enough or pack enough wallop @ 400-500 yds is spending too much time on the internet instead of shootin and huntin . If you actually use it you know it simply works close or far.works. Get off the couch. 😜

Having used the 9.3X62 since the late 1970s, I'm actually smiling while reading today's posts in this thread. Just turned 78 on July 4th, and for the first few years of my hunting career I was a committed 375 H&H fan for really big game. It shot just as flat as the 30-06 and punched much harder. However the 20 inch MarkX carbine I carried while guiding had two faults, the recoil was more than deliberately obnoxious, and the muzzle blast deafening. Well do I remember the day I fired it beside a really big spruce tree. The blast reflected off the trunk of that tree was scary, and my left ear rang for an hour!

My first 9.3X62 was quite an eye-opener. It shot just as flat, dropped an amazing number of everything, including wounded bears where they stood, and was remarkably easy to shoot better because it kicked much less. At least it seemed to, and the rifle weighed more than a pound less than the 375s I had. Best of all, It held five in the magazine!

Tried hard to keep them, but sold my last two 375s this year. Have told a lot of people the 9.3X62 is a 375 with five in the magazine.

Ted

Assuming that’s directed towards me. I don’t spend much time on the couch. Time, money, and family constraints (daughters in travel soccer a son in travel baseball) work and a wife hold me back from traveling to places where I can put a 9.3x62 to good use and compare it to a .375 H&H but I dig learning and reading about the experiences of those who can in between my local range and hunting trips.

Yes, I do.

For the woods, and maybe the bottom two or three rounds in the open, under the Hot-Cor load.

This 2260 fps/MV load has the 320 gr. RN Weldcore's recommended impact velocity (2200-2000) bracketed at 25-100 yds, and hits the 1800 minimum impact velocity just past 200.

Perfect for the woods and close-in trouble.

And, w/ an SD of .341, slow and heavy is reassuringly effective in close.


Do you think 58 gn. of Varget will fit under a 320 gr. RN Weldcore?

Figgerin' 57-58 to make my numbers.

Thanks.




GR

Winchester could likely make a dollar if they chambered this in the Featherweight with a 24" barrel.
Worked for the 7x57, why not a 9.3? (With a red decelerator pad of course)

Or....why not a regular Super Grade featherweight version? Premium walnut and Red pad also.

Ruger/Lipsey's made a pretty good run at it a while back.



W/ the 24" ltwt profile Bbl., it's a very well balanced field rifle.




GR

What close in trouble do you expect to encounter?

Does it matter? I think he has everything short of a Soviet T34 tank covered with it.

The Ruger is a nice looking rifle

Furthermore...

Can a large, aggressive bear or angry sow hog, or mountain cat, be considered trouble outside of 200 yds?

More likely the shooter, in the case of a bear at least, would be the one in trouble.

Seems to me this bullet's design and engineering is perfect for this application.



As stated, have other sleeker bullets for extended range hunting.


Would just like to know if 58 gn. of Varget will fit under it and hit the numbers... for powder acquisition purposes.

Thanks.




GR

I'm all for nerding out on this stuff. If that's the bullet you like, just use that bullet for everything. Loading two types of ammo at once is just needless complication. In my primary 9.3 I just use 286 grain partitions on everything. Not to nitpick your choice, but if the picture there is typical of the expanded diameter for that bullet I'd wager the 286 partition would penetrate better.

That would be a pretty safe wager, based on the experience of a number of people.

I've seen how Woodleigh's 286 gn RN and PP worked on about 60 of our buffalo, as well as a good number of big pigs. Most of these were more or less close - some close enough and coming in hard enough to focus my attention pretty sharply - and I have had no reason to think I needed a 320 grainer. Both 286 gn versions would punch right on through a buff, or at least end up under the skin on the far side, but I'd give the edge to the RN for anything smaller as it seemed to open better than the PP at 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R velocities.

Generally have a single load for rifle calibers as well.

But the 9.3x62mm offers the same kind of flexibility as the .30-06, but more to the point as a stopping round.

Some places I hunt will never see 200 yds.

This is an actual 320 gr. Weldcore RN found in the 8th jug of this Test.



Recovered weight is listed as 317.6 gr.

Performance looks good, and the ranges for its intended use match the bullet's engineering specs.

So why Not use a 320 gr., if it is ideal for the work, including an SD of .341?

... If I needed a bullet to work Really well at 25 yds.


Will a 285-6 gr. Oryx/A-Frame, at just shy of 2400 fps for the same ME, work as well?


Longer range, light duty and high performance bullets in .366", I have.

What I don't have - is the knowledge of the max powder capacity of Varget in this case, behind a 320 gr. Weldcore RN loaded to a COAL of ~ 3.25"

Hence the repeated quarry.




GR

Likely your best bet would be to email Woodleigh and see what they can tell you.

I live in southeast Alaska and have used the 9.3 with 286gr Noslers for awhile now on various deer, mountain goats, and one 8.5’ brown bear.

It kills the heck out of things, to the point that any of these animals shot frontally easily end up with a second butthole, but I also can shoot them at 300 yards.

Agree - a hammer of a hunting round.

But, as mentioned by many, only marginal as a stopping round.

Figger this load would improve that some.




GR

In Africa, where this stopping business is more of a thing I recall that nothing is considered a “stopping” rifle until bullet diameter is .45 or better. In comparison the .375 and .366 are mere medium bores. It’s very American of us to consider anything over .30 cal as a “big” bore. Me, and apparently everyone else who’s used both the H&H and Mr. Bock’s fine creation come away thinking there’s not enough difference between the two to matter. Now with that being established I’ll say that I’ve killed alot of brown bears with a .375 and 300 grain Noslers, at some really hard angles and not one of them has kept coming at me or started to do so once pasted. I don’t count on it by any means, but you can believe performance has been very consistent.

All of which is to say I’m just as comfortable trusting the 9.3 with 286s for bear defense, as I am the .375 with 300s. Actually, more so due to the 9.3 holding 6 rounds rather than the .375’s four. If I knew I had to go get in a bear fight I’d probably take the .416 Taylor, but I’d not hesitate to use the 9.3 with 286s.

Nothin' at all wrong w/ a premium .366/285-6 gr. bullet.

Like'em a lot, and have both Oryx and A-Frames in that weight.

Also like the idea of an even heavier, higher SD round nose, for work inside of 100 yards.

That's all.

If it costs the same, shoots well, and performs even marginally better at 25 yards, where it could make a difference?

... it is at least worth exploring.


To me, both short and long ranges are somewhat exclusive when it comes to bullets, and that there are generally advantages in some choices over others.

And, yes, the 285-6 gr. Oryx/A-Frame may just do it all.

But then, that's a result I'll determine, tested along side the 320 gr. Weldcore SP.
(If I can ever figger out if the powder will fit)




GR

The 320gr Woodleigh round nose Weldcore doesn't have near the shank left under the cannelure as the Protected Point version of the same weight, i think you'll have plenty of room for your charge of Varget under that bullet, plus, we all have basher loads, i like em, in fact several cartridges of mine happily live right there.

30-30 carbine, 170gr Partition, 2150 fps
303 British, 215 Woodleigh, 2163 fps
458 Win Mag, 500gr Woodleigh PP and Partition, 2150 fps [3.340 col]
505Gibbs, 600gr Woodleighs, 2150 fps
500 Nitro, 570gr Barnes' 2168 fps
577 Nitro, 750gr Barnes' 2076 fps

These can all be loaded up or down, especially in the cases of 458 WM at 3.575 COL, a 500gr trophy bonded Sledgehammer solid at 2358 fps is the load in another rifle, the Gibbs will run those 600gr Woodleighs to 2500 fps if one cares to sit/stand behind it, i have, it's only fun for a little bit! ; ]

Varget’s burn rate seems pretty much right for 250gn bullets, something a bit slower like 4350 or big game would probably be closer to the right burn rate for the big Woodleighs and give higher velocity.

Thanks.




Considering Big Game, and 4350 as well.

Think MD wrote that 4350 was inconsistent in this caliber, although that was for the lighter 286 gr. I believe, and loaded for higher velocity.

Other than that, it looks like a good powder choice.


Not really considering higher velocity. The 2260 fps/MV seems to hit all the right marks for this bullet.




GR

Taking my Mauser M12 9.3 to the national forest this fall for elk in Colorado. Will use lowly 250 grain Nosler pills (probably some MD kindly sold to me). There are countless discussions on the ‘fire every day about what powder and what bullet and whatever cartridge that can so easily be answered by Quick load. I never use it for fine-tuning but it will darn sure fairly tell me what powder gives best velocities at what case capacity with any bullet. Believe it or not, CFE223 rocks with 250 grained.

Hi,

Ihave used MD's loads, R15 and 250 gr bullets, published here and in the Big Book of Gun Gack I. Got almost the same velocity (and probably pressure, I think) as he did, in the same barrel lenght.
As W760 and W748 have been recently imported, I tried the 748 with various 250 gr. And, eureka! I got practically the same results as with the R15, with 2 more grains of 748.
Being impossible to get the Ramshot powders here, for the 286 gr I have (Hornady Interlock and PRVI), instead of Big Game I used W760. And I got, again, almost the same velocity as MD with the same charge he uses with Big Game: 67 gr with the Hornady and 68 gr with the PRVI, for 2450 f/s. Good loads!
I have not used before these W powders. I am aware of their temperature sensitivity, so probably those charges should be lowered for summer uses.

Best!

PH

Just noticed that the 320 gr. Weldcore RN is the same length as the 286 gr. Weldcore PP, and the cannelure looks to be in the same place as well.

Should make the powder capacity a little easier to figure.


P.S./MD: Seems to be a 3-4 gn. disparity b/t your published load data RE: the 9.3x62mm/Big Game, as compared to the Western Reloading data sheet for a given velocity.

Know your data is (+/-) a decade old.

Are you aware of this, a/o, has there been a change to the powder?

Thanks.




GR

I have shot my 550 FS with 250 AB out to 300 yards alongside my 3006 with 180 grain SST. Within 3" vertically and group sizes were nearly identical. Short range round, nobody told my rifle apparently. The biggest advantage I see with the 9.3 is you can eat right up to the hole. Very important if you are a meat hunter. Still have not recovered a bullet and I am good with that. Would like to stretch to 400 but range only has 300.

RL-17 is generally considered to be around the same burn rate as IMR 4350 or H 4350. It is THE only powder I use for the 250 AB, 286 Partition and 320 Woodleigh. It's a bit slower than Big Game and has more energy (being double base) than the 4350s. It's no problem to get over 2400 fps from the 320 Woodleigh using Rl-17, and very good accuracy with no signs of undue pressure.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

And, would assume that, for a < 200 yard cartridge, Temperature Insensitivity wouldn't be an issue.




GR

Is there anyone using the 232gr Woodleigh Weldcore?

Not the Weldcore, but I load the Oryx. Nothing hot, just around 2,400 fps using H4895.

In my experience Woodleigh Weldcores and Norma Oryxes perform very similarly, retaining about the same amount of weight and opening widely.

Is there a chance you have played with them as well? I’m hoping for a bit more speed but don’t have your reference Varget load that is amazing for the NAB 250gr.

Yes I had Pac-Nor rebarrel my LH Win 70 in 9.3x62 quite a few years ago after listing to Ted, also had Yukon Freighter canoe after listening to Ted seems to be full of good advice! Kurt

You can get a whole lot more speed with the 232 grain bullet. I just don't happen to need it for what I use it for.


MD's load data for the 232 grain Oryx uses RL-15 and ramps the MV up to 2,700+ fps. Of course, YMMV...

Another load for a lighter bullet for those who want the flattest possible trajectory from the 9.3x62, is the 210-grain Cutting Edge Raptor with 66.0 grains of RL-15, which gets around 2850 fps from the 23.6" (60cm) barrel on my CZ 550. The Raptor's an excellent monolithic bullet, which penetrates well. (This load is listed in 2022's Gun Gack IV, The Little Book of Rifle Handloads That Work, since Cutting Edge bullets hadn't been introduced when I published my original article on handloading the 9.3x62.)

Just as an aside, I was handed a box of factory Nosler Accubond ammo for the 9.3 last week and so out of curiosity took them to the range today to chrono them (Mondays are 'Weekly Group Therapy Sessions' for me).

On the box it says nominal MV is 2,550 fps. A 10-shot string past the chrony from my 24" barrel produced an average MV of 2,364 fps with E-S of 42 and an S-D of 15.1.

Me thinks that Nosler test barrel is a tad longer than 24" ...

I doubt their barrel is longer than 24". SAAMI companies follow SAAMI specs. Just because your barrel is the same length as the ammo companies test barrel or a powder/bullet company's load data doesn't give the same velocity you see in your barrel. So many variables will turn up different velocities. Fast barrels, slow barrels.....tight chambers, loose chambers, etc.....can cause some larger than normal velocity differences. I see/hear it all the time at work.

Alan

There's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that the general "Joe Handloader" is kept in the dark about! I've found that out by digging and asking questions of the head guys in their ballistic "labs". For instance, in all of Nosler's manuals - going way back to the present - they publish results for many loads that came from computers, not actual results! Examples are plenty: On any given page where there are several bullets of the same weight but different styles, they print the same MV for all of their .30-cal in .30-06 for individual loads - as one among hundreds of examples. They never tested all those loads except for one or two out of 5 or 6, took the average of two and called it the result for all six! Then that's what went into the computer and when pulled for printing... ? You guessed it!

And Nosler isn't the only "guilty" party that does that. To test every component bullet they manufacture and then state in print that its MV was identical to every other style of that weight and calibder from an identical load is preposterous and presumptuous!

Also, they don't load their ammo, nor do others, to the "max" that's presented in their reloads. And sometimes ammo gets out the door from a batch that's not been tested!

WE EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM MASS PRODUCED PRODUCTS! Early 250gr RN .35 Whelen advertised at 2400 fps made 2247 fps from my 22" Remington out of 10 from a box of 20.

And all that's not even close to what could be said about manuals and the factory product. Yes, today matters are much improved over what they were 40 - 50 years ago - especially bullets and gun powders!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

They are good guides and seem to help a fella get started, but I have rarely ever seen book data come close to what the same load does in my rifles. The only one that seems consistently close to the book is the 6.5 CM..

Fooled around with some alternative powders for the 9.3x62 and thought I would share my results.
These loads were safe in my rifles but might be excessive in yours.

Ruger #! - 22" barrel:
250 NAB - 60.0 - AR-Comp - 2675 - 1.1" group
250 NAB - 62.5 - Varget - 2655 fps - 1.1"
250 NAB - 62.5 - N140 - 2640 fps - .84"
250 TTSX - 60.0 - N540 - 2543 fps - 1.1" This is the only promising TTSX load so far
286 NP - 60.0 - AR-Comp - 2432 fps - 1.1"
286 NP - 60.0 - N140 - 2435 fps - 1.1"
286 NP - 66.0 - Big Game - 2486 fps - 1.1"

Titan 16 - 22" barrel:
250 TTSX - 60.0 - N140 - 2598 fps - 1.4"
286 Hdy - 56.5 - N140 - 2400 fps - .9"
286 Hdy - 58.0 - N540 - 2425 fps - 1"
286 Hdy - 59.0 - N540 - 2486 fps - .7"
286 Hdy - 59.0 - N150 - 2474 fps - 1.5"

The Titan 16 (a clone of the Mauser M96 Straight Pull) is made by Roessler in Austria. It is finely made and accurate. The bolt has more internal parts than a Bavarian cuckoo clock. The owners manual (when I finally obtained one) states that the bolt should never be disassembled. The importer seldom gets anything from the manufacturer and, as yet, has not come up with a spare magazine. I like the rifle. But had I known the ultra-complex bolt could not be taken down for maintenance I would have passed it by.

Cheers,
Walt

That sounds very German, over engineering something beyond the ability to service it other than at the factory.

Ya reckon that’s where John Deere got the idea of software only they could manage, customers locked out.

Interesting nonetheless. Pictures?

DF

I was thinking the same thing. That Ruger #1 sounds like a heckuva shooter..

Between those two, the #1 for sure.

DF

JB's load.

CZ AHR.

Why make something simple when it is much more fun to make it complicated?

Pictures here:

https://www.empolotezsignaturefirea...traight-pull-model-exclusive-cal-243win/

Cheers,
Walt

It’s different, for sure.

I’d have to use it a while before I had confidence to take it on a hunt way out in the boonies.

DF

What did that one weigh as pictured? How about sans scope?

It was a tad heavy. Traded it. Don’t remember actual weight.

DF

Trying to make the 9.3x62 something it wasn't designed to be is a fools errand. If you want blistering speed get a 338 win mag. If you want a rifle that will kill anything you point it at within hunting ranges up to 300 yards, go with the 9.3. It has been a hunters cartridge in the rest of the world as the 30-06 was in America.I have taken deer and hogs with it using 286 grain So and 232 grain Vulcan and really have not noticed much difference in performance. Short heavy blood trails leading to dead game.

So are you saying we shouldn't be loading our 9.3s up to modern pressures and reaping the benefits? Go shoot some big critters and you'll come to appreciate the 286 grainers.

Yep, like this bull moose taken in northern British Columbia. My guide was very impressed with how fast it went down from a behind-the-shoulder shot--and yet ruined little meat. (He was also comforted by having the rifle handy when a big grizzly tried to come in on us when we were taking the bull apart.)

But 250-grain bullets at 2650 or so are also very useful, especially in open country--including in Africa, which was what the 9.3x62 was developed for, and not just "plains game" like this kudu, but lion, Cape buffalo and even elephant.

Not at all. But do so safely and only in newer more robust (better steel) rifles that can withstand the increased pressures required. A long range 500+yards it will never be. Just remember with more speed comes more recoil. As far as performance on game it is really not required. Just one old hunters opinion. Enjoy your gun as you see fit.

Gee, I never would have guessed that "with more speed comes more recoil."

I started hunting with the 9.3x62 over 20 years ago, and have never owned one that wasn't made of "newer more robust (better steel)". But the original rifles were also made of pretty good steel, as Otto Bock didn't introduce it until 1905.

Just a guess, but maybe you don't know it was specifically designed for use in the standard K98 Mauser action, which was always made of the best steels--and even back then the German steels were very good. While the original factory ammunition got a claimed 2150 fps with 286-grain bullets, that relatively slow velocity was mostly due to the existing powders, which were all relatively fast-burning and temperature sensitive. It wasn't until after World War I that, thanks to better powders, the factory 286-grain velocity was increased to around 2360 fps--which is where it remains today, despite even better powders.

The loads I developed were pressure-tested at around 60,000 PSI (electronic PSI, NOT copper-crusher pressure), which is the same maximum average pressure of the .30-06--still well short of the maximum 65,000 PSI the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) assigns to any cartridge.

So do you load your 9.3x62 ammo to the pre-WWI velocities? Or the post WWI velocities? Or what?

But my major point is the 9.3x62 was not designed for deer and pig hunting. It was designed to be an affordable cartridge for German settlers in Africa, who might have to deal with much larger (and more dangerous) animals which ate their crops or livestock.

With modern powders it steps up a notch in ballistic performance, but still doesn't recoil as much as the .338 Winchester or .375 H&H Magnums. In fact has worked just as well as either round on the dozens of big game animals I've taken with it from Alaska to Africa since 2002, without as much recoil, even though my custom-stocked CZ 550 rifle only weighs 8 pounds with scope. And with 250-grain spitzers the trajectory is very similar to the .30-06 with 180-grain bullets, so is quite capable at 400+ yards.

I load Nosler 286 partitions with RL-17 to 2450 fps in my 20" barrel Mauser
I load 250 ttsx with Rl-15 to 2600 fps, seems to work well

Curious how you got the weight down that much?

The custom stock was made by the company then named Serengeti Rifles, and is now Kilimanjaro Rifles, using one of their fancy-wood laminated blanks that don't look laminated. It's a LOT slimmer than the factory stock (which is the one in the moose and kudu photos. If I recall correctly it weighs 7 ounces less than the factory stock.

The rifle still has the same 4x33 M8 Leupold in Talley detachable steel rings--and in over 15 years hasn't changed point of impact.

Will post a photo of the rifle with the custom stock a little later.

What's the biggest critter you've seen taken with a 9.3x62? My PH told me that it was common for European hunters to bring it as their only rifle for plains game and cape buffalo.

I asked him if I could shoot a Cape Buffalo with my 9.3x62, and he said "Yes it will work".

I used a 416 Remington,but I might use it on a future hunt if I get more recoil sensitive.

Used my 9.3x62mm on Cape Buffalo for the first time this season. Handloaded 300 grain A-Frames. No drama ensued.

Probably that British Columbia moose. It was taken only about 100 miles south of the Yukon border, and while the moose in that area aren't quite as big as Alaska/Yukon moose in either body size or antlers, they're not much smaller. Per usual I measured its body, both the chest depth and overall length, and it was bigger than some Cape buffalo--which can also vary considerably in size from region to region.

The only time I had a chance to take a buffalo with the 9.3 was in 2011 in southern Tanzania. It's a very hot area, and Bergmann's Rule (which I've mentioned before) is that animals in warmer climates don't grow as large as the same animals in cooler climates, either higher in elevation or farther from the equator.

I could have taken three buffalo on that trip, and had already taken a very good bull with my .416 Rigby. But my PH, the late Paddy Curtis, was also very impressed with the way my 9.3x62 put plains game down, so arranged with the government game scout to allow me to use the 9.3 on a bull.

But the next herd (four bulls) we got up on was in pretty thick stuff, and the one viable shot was on the biggest bull--which had one broken horn. We decided to pass it up, a decision I now regret because we'd already run into the same bull once before, and it would have been helpful to take him out.

But even if we had, the buffalo in that area weren't as big as that BC moose--or bigger-bodied buffalo in other parts of Africa, including northern Tanzania. Took my first in Botswana, which measured 10 feet from the front of the chest to the back of the butt, and the mature bulls my hunting companions and I took in that part of Tanzania ran around eight feet from chest to butt.

Here are a couple photos my CZ with the custom stock:

I stand corrected. Actually John I use your loads. Just seeing if I could get a rise. With your loads who needs a 338 win mag.

Forum member cz550 would agree.

John,

Is Kilimanjaro Rifles still in business? If so, do they sell the CZ 550 stocks or do they only install them on their rifles?

Kilimanjaro Rifles website apparently no longer exists, so would assume the company doesn't either.

B - I've taken a number of both Cape and NW Red buffalo with the 9.3 x 62. Works just fine. Furthermore, same performance and less recoil than the .375 H&H. You'l here that again and again because its true.

I've made previous comments here on the "Fire" but far more details in several past blogs.

My rifle is nothing fancy but very light. It's a Tikka T3 Lite with a Sako match-grade barrel. It replaced all my mediums for quite a few years, though I've added another .35 Whelen and a .375 H&H (my 3rd) over the past 18 months.

My Tikka with a 3 - 9 x 40 scope weighs 7.47 lbs, and with 3 in the clip magazine (286gr NPs) comes in at 7.7 lbs. With a 286 Partition leaving the muzzle at +2600 fps, recoil was more than my current .375 H&H that weighs 10 lbs with 3 in the magazi.ne.

Due to my age (88 next month) and bouts of arthritis, I've had a muzzle brake installed on the 6.3 x 62, which is much handier to tote in rough terrain that the heavier .375 H&H -which, btw, is a left-handed bolt-action. The Tikka is RH and very smooth. I've always shot from my left side due to a childhood accident to my right eye causing blindness to it.

I muchly appreciate John's responses.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Bob,

That Tikka sounds just about perfect--hopefully the brake will help!

I also ended up with a .375 H&H after not owning one for a few years, a pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 that weigh 1-3/4 pounds more bare than my CZ does with its scope. Haven't fired it yet....

Good hunting,
John

Thanks John,

I've a longtime friend in Ohio, who, in his last trip to Africa took a new M70 in .375 H&H, and it worked as well as his previous trip on everything using his M70 .458. But he said it was too heavy, being actually heavier than the .458 because the .458 had the same conture barrel but with less metal due the the larger hole in it.

This .375 H&H is my third, because I "always wanted one" but the first two didn't pan out as wanted or expected. The first was an M70 Winchester PF (which didn't concern me), but was indeed too heavy for my liking at the time and it never gave the expected results in ballistics, which I think was a feature of that particular barrel, and the "right" powders weren't available. Later, in a trade, I got a new Browning A-Bolt in LH, SS with a 26" barrel. The ballistics were outstanding but accuracy was poor after working with it for several months until I had my gunsmith chop 4" from the barrel, thinking that might make a stiffer barrel with better accuracy. In doing so, it was obvious the bore was off-center. The smith said by .008", which could clearly be seen. So it got traded at the same store for the same rifle in .338 Win Mag, that eventually became a .340 Wby at the hands of the same smith. The .338, a .300 Win and the .340 Wby were all stellar in performance.

Anyway, as I said, I always wanted a .375 H&H that worked as expected. So far, this one does, though heavy. But it has a 22" barrel and fits like a glove, so it went bear hunting in the Spring and this past Fall. No bear the size I wanted hunting solo, but a sub-monster was hitring the bait regularly. Next May, God willing, I'll be at it again with the .375 H&KH.

I always appreciate hearing your experiences.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I have used the 9.3X62 along with the 358 Norma Magnum and 375 H&H for more than fifty years. Got my first 9.3 in late 1970s or early 80s. It was an ugly old 98 with a cracked stock and twisted front sight, but it worked.

Got my first 358 in 1968, a Husqvarna that carried nicely but could have been a bit heavier. Have had several since, including one custom rifle. Great hunting cartridge!

Guiding, I carried a 20 inch 375 that was terribly noisy, as you can imagine. Deafened me one time when I fired it beside a huge black spruce. Was quite impressed and pleased to discover that a 30-06 full of 220 gr Partitions did just as well, so that 375 left the ranch.

The past 15 years or so, have used a 9.3X62 with a 21 inch barrel that a friend of mine built. I had Bill Leeper install a NECG banded front sight and fit an old Redfield flip up aperture sight to the rear scope base.



Essentially, the 9.3X 62 is a 375 with five in the magazine. This one swings and points like an extension of your arm. It has been used on everything we hunt here, including grizzlies and woods bison. Oops, haven’t used this one on sheep. Turned 80 this past July, and haven’t hunted them for a while. The 270 still gets the nod for that.

The 9.3 is plenty and much easier to handle than any 375 I have had. As well, it easily cleans the 300 meter rail of pigs when fired from the bench at our silhouette range.

Sold both 375s and the 358 a few years ago. Sacrilege, I know, but managing to get along without them.

Ted

Ted it is a pleasure to hear real "from the bush" experience with stuff. Keep hunting.

If one was to build a short and more nimble 9.3x62… say around 7lbs and with a 20”bbl, I have a question: would the reloader be better using heavier or lighter bullets?
I never grasped the answer to this one.
Going to 232gr be the ticket, or the 320gr?

I guess it depends on what your application is. A back east tree stand hunter might be happy with 232s. Nearly every time I deer hunt I might run into a brown bear, so it's 286s for me. My 9.3 has a 20.5" barrel and is just about 7lbs with the peep sight. I find 286s at 2400 to be no problem.

With the 9.3 there really is no wrong answer.

I have been quite interested in this caliber for a long time. But I've yet to have killed anything with it. It is a 30-06 rebored to 9.3x62. Carries right and I have a plastic stock and wood stock both fitted. RZ.

!

Any new loads, guys?

With some experimenting you can make the 232 Oryx and 320gr Woodleigh PP shoot into the same group at 100 yds. I use RL-15 for the 232 at 2450 fps for a light deer/wolf load, and RL-17 for the 320 at ~ 2425 fps. That could come in handy for particular situations. Of course, past 100 the 320 will hold its velocity better and shoot a bit flatter due to a much better BC.

I do the same type of thing with my .35 Whelen a 225 AB at 2840 fps and 300gr Barnes O at 2355 shoot into the same group at 100. That just happened that way not because it was planned. CFE223 for the 225 and RL17 for the 300. I won't give the loads, but it works!

I might be hunting a wolf or deer with the 225 and run into a bear at close quarters. Or, I might be sitting over a bear bait at 40 -50 yds, get tired of that and want to wander a bit, so the 225 goes into the chamber, etc.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Has anyone used the Nosler 250 E-Tip on game?

Testing out 250 TSX and TAC.

The 286 Hornady shot good with 65 grains of Big Game.

Pulled my barreled action out. Removed sights, trigger, bolt stop. Cerakoted, reassembled, first shot was ½" low but centered! Put a soften scope on it today
I'll sight that in tomorrow.

Dennis,
Have you tried JB's load with Varget and the 250TSX?
V8n

No.
I've only tried TAC.
I shot today. Got 2515 avg depending on primer. 56.0 grains
I shot the 286 over Varget, got 2345 with it. 22" barrel.
65 grains of Big Game yields 2405 in my rifle

I may have already posted this in this thread, but if I have, hopefully it is worth repeating.

The interesting thing about all this effort to hot-rod the 9.3 is that the original loading for the 9.3x62 was a 286 grain bullet at around 2150. That was 200 feet less than the current factory load, and was the load that established the reputation for this fine cartridge on ALL big game in Africa.

I have used and seen it used on everything in the Yukon, except sheep. Moose, Caribou, and both bears, as well as huge Woods bison, go down with a single shot in the heart lung area. I have only ever seen one bison that got up after being hit, and that was only because a number of other bison came and helped lift it back onto its feet.

My time with this cartridge is creeping up on fifty years of hunting and guiding, all of which has been with 285-290 gr bullets loafing out of the barrel at less than 2400. I have twice seen the 270 Speer used by a pilot friend on a bear and on a moose. Both were one shot kills

It started out as a poor man’s 375 and still is. Five in the magazine is a comfort too, although I have never needed more than two rounds.

Great cartridge!

Ted

Ted,

Thanks for the report. It obviously always did work very well at those velocities, otherwise it wouldn't have survived.

But I got interested in what the 9,3x62 would do at "modern" pressures, meaning the 60,000 PSI of the .30-06. It turned out it worked very well, and with modern 250s at 2650 or so isn't just a "short range" round.

John

Anyone load up any Lapua 185 gr. (G574) bullets for their 9.3 rifles??

I bought a couple hundred to "plink" and sight in my scopes riding on my Tikka T3 that's sitting in a B&C Medalist stock. A light load to replicate a 30-06 per se.

Agreed, John, and I do understand your interest. I have never used the 9.3 beyond 250 yards or thereabouts, but at that range it is still easy to hit vital areas on any big game we have here.

I will add, however, that it is not hard to clean five pigs off the rail on our silhouette range from the bench. That is 300 meters, 328 yards as you know, and far beyond what perhaps more than 80% of hunters are capable of in the field. But that’s another thread thought that might be worth starting.

Appreciate you starting this thread. Best,
Ted

Yup. I use them for walking around field practice, not for wacking any game.

I use 52 gr. - 53 gr. of H4895 for 2,300+ fps. Could easily go much faster, but for what I'm doing it suffices.

I've avoided" hotrodding" it for the most part. I can't get the 9.3 BS velocities. I do think the modern powders have woken up a giant.

I use RL15 in mine but some say RL17 is a powder which offers more velocity. I put a 286 NP over 58.5 grains of RL15 in mine and see no reason to switch on a proven performer.

Ted, I've had good results with the load you shared with me a decade back. I believe it was 57 grains of h4895 with a 285gr PPU bullet. I was easily hitting 300 yard targets both at the range and in the field. I believe that load clocked 2440 fps out of my rifle.

John,

What was your reasoning for stopping at 60 kpsi rather than 65 kpsi (270 Win)?

Looking back at my notes 9.3x62 LH Win 70 22" Pacnor worked in my rifle dont use in your rifle. Very interesting the accuracy difference
as has been pointed out before. RS Big Game seems to work best at pressure. Was trying to find a 250 gr load and a 286 Gr load that shot
to similar point of impact.


CCI Std Lapua Brass 65 Gr Big Game, 2485 FPS, 286 NP [email protected]"
" " " " 65.5 Gr BG 2476, 2498,2496 FPS 286 NP [email protected]" "
" " " " 66 Gr BG 2517, 2539,2521 FPS, 286 NP [email protected]" 9-16-15 2.5" Hi 3/4" R

I bought an old Sauer & Sohn '98 in the early '70's when the 9.3 was a pretty rare bird over here, no dies, no bullets etc. so the kicker was 5 boxes of RWS factory 286 gr. I was happy with that for years...but then Barsness reported getting some speed, 2500 I think, so I thought, I should do that too...wrong, I couldn't handle the recoil. The original steel buttplate and stock drop at heel didn't help. So, I duplicated the old RWS load velocity, 2150 I think, with Hornady bullets and 4895 until I sold it 5 years ago. Elk cows didn't even know the bullet was going too slow.

That's where most loads grouped the best--but also wanted to leave some safety margin for hunting in really hot weather in Africa.

Sounds like you tried 65K. What did you see in velocity going to 65K vs. 60K?

Not as much as many handloaders would assume.

The general rule-of-thumb for single-based powders is that velocity increases at half the rate of the in pressure. This means around 100 fps in a load that gets around 2500 fps at 65,000 PSI. It's also about much velocity as a typical 286-grain 9.3 spitzer loses in the first 50 yards.

With double-based powders the increase is a little more, but not a vast amount.

Kurt, i noticed my load load of 65 grains B.G. out of 22" Pac-nor was only 2405 avg. Could be the powder lot, barrel, my throat, who knows but each rifle is different.
I'm not going to add anymore powder.

85 grains has to be typo. Am guess you meant 65.

Will also comment that velocity varies with barrel length, though again sometimes not as much as many assume. My CZZ's barrel is 60cm (23.6") long, but for a while I also had a CZ 550 Stutzen (which Americans would call a Mannlicher) in 9.3x62 with a 20.5" barrel. With most load it "lost" 24 to 88 fps compared to the 23.6" barrel on the 550 rifle, when shot on the same day using the same chronograph. But it actually gained 38 fps with one load.

Bullets also make a difference. I first tried Barnes X-Bullets in the CZ 550 rifle in 2004, using the 286-grain X-Bullet, before the 286 TSX appeared. It only took 64 grains of Big Game to get approximately the same velocity as with 66 grains using 286 Partitions, in the mid-2400s.

That's interesting, because with my rifle the 286gr TSX's were much slower than the partitions. I couldn't get them to an equivalent speed if I wanted to.

That's because you tried TSXs, which tend to produce less pressure than Partitions.

As I stated, was "using the 286-grain X-Bullet, before the 286 TSX appeared." The plain X's resulted in more pressure, due to full contact with the bore.

Oh yes, I misunderstood you. I wish they wouldn't put so many grooves on the new bullets. Sometimes pressure is a good thing. Aside from my .416 with 400s, the TSX and TTSX have been consistently the most emotional bullets I've tried to get to shoot. They are good performers and accuracy can be found, but not easily for me.

Also the brand of cases we use can contribute to higher or lower psi than what John was getting or I get. The data for my load of RL-17 for the 286 Partition was tested by a friend using QL. I told him I was using 64,000 psi as a max load because Tikka was making a .338 Win Mag T3 identical to mine in 9.3 x 62, except with a 2" longer barrel, and, of course, the SAAMI max for the .338 is 64,000 psi. Then the brass must be capable of handling that psi. There was no doubt in my mind that the TIKKA T3 was capable of handling 64,000 psi. My friend tested that load from a 22.5" barrel at just under 64,000 psi = 2619 fps. My chronograph was reading 2622 fps average corrected to MV. That was in using Hornady brass. A correspondent said he couldn't load nearly that amount in his Lapua brass.

It so happens that last year I needed some new 9.3 x 62 cases, and with the shortages only Lapua cases were available (at an extreme price!) in a box of 100. And what that correspondant said, I've found to be true. I'll have to cut back my usual load of RL-17 in Hornady cases by 3 -4 grains in Lapua with its thicker and heavier cases. And that will, of course, significantly reduce MV.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

N140 gave equal velocity and accuracy as the same charge of Varget.
N540 is great with 286 Hornadys.
Have found nothing as good as Big Game with 286 Noslers.

Have also found Big Game works very well even with heavier bullets. Another load I developed later used 61.5 grains with the 320-grain Woodleigh Weld-Core, which averaged 2343 fps with 3-shot groups right around 2350 fps--which was not pushing it hard. Would guess it would work just as well with the 325-grain Norma Oryx--and have generally found Oryxes work very similarly to Woodleighs.

Did you ever test the 320s against the 286gr partitions in the wax tubes? I’m curious if the 320s penetrate more or less given their likely larger expanded diameter.

I recently got a 9.3x62, but I have not hunted with it yet. The local game is almost entirely white tails. I am aware that the 9.3x62 is way overkill for white tails. I still intend to take it out at least once this season, since the Husqvarna I got handles like a dream and shoots pretty well even with a truly terrible batch of Hornady factory ammo (seriously, no two bullets in any given box are even seated to the same depth, but I am still getting 1.5 inch 5-shot groups at 100 yards). But, down the road, I would love to try for elk and moose. I am curious what bullets are most effective for these animals out to say 400 yards. I am particularly intrigued by the 250-grain and lighter bullets.

What are some good suggestions? Assume that for the past 35 years I have been killing white tails with the same old rifles (.257 Roberts, .25-06, .270, 30-06) and haven't followed "the latest hotness" when it comes to anything. My "go-to" bullet for the past 30 years has been the Sierra Gameking, which has always been more than adequate for deer. Someone gave me a box of Nosler ballistic tips for my .25-06 about 20 years ago, but I never bothered to load them up since the other bullets were doing just fine. But, when I get the opportunity to go elk or moose hunting, I think I would want a "better" bullet to ensure the best possible outcome to what would probably be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I've never had a need to consider a "premium" bullet before. But, since I picked up this 9.3x62, I would like to use it and get the "practical most" out of it. By that, I mean I am not looking to push the outside of the envelope. I want to work up a load that shoots well and whose limits I understand.

I have a large supply of the 270-grain Speer semi-spitzers (which we have used on white tails for years in my dad's 9.3x74R drilling - but which is unlikely to ever again leave the safe since someone finally bothered to tell my dad what his Luftwaffe drilling is worth). I currently have plenty of 285/286 grain factory loads, since I bought a couple of hundred rounds of factory ammo because the price was cheaper than empty brass - but, as mentioned, the quality control is really bad. I am currently considering pulling them and then reloading them to uniform depths. Or I may just use them on white tails in my woods, where most shots will be within 100 yards and a long shot would be about 200 yards.

I wanted to get some 250-grain Nosler Accubonds, since some of the old posts here praised them, but I cannot find any available. What about the Nosler E-Tip?

How well do the Barnes TSX and TTSX perform? What's the "real" difference between them? All I can see is that one is a boat tail. Is one a better choice than the other for my desired game?

I am also intrigued by the 200-grain Cutting Edge bullets. Anyone have experience with them?

Any other options I should consider?

Edit - if someone has current loads and "probably the best powder" for their recommended bullets, I'm interested in that as well. Understanding of course, basic precepts of "safe" reloading and etc.

You are asking for load information on page 44?
Sertoriusly?

I haven't finished reading the first 22 pages... and the first posts here are over a decade old. It does no good to consider a load for a bullet I cannot buy.

Q,
Read what you can find, including here.
Mule Deer's loads (the whole subject of this thread) will serve you well.
Regarding bullet availability - if you want a very tough premium bullet that is currently available for cheap, you should buy a couple bags of the Nosler 250 g E-Tips that are still available as factory seconds on SPS (Shooter's Pro Shop). 10% veteran/LEO discount if you qualify. They're very well priced and will handle any of the big game you described wanting to hunt in the future. They shoot well in my rifle.

Good luck,
Rex

EDIT - also find and read Mainer_in_AK's thread on (I think) 13 years with the 9.3x62 in Alaska.

No, I haven't--but wouldn't test them in Test Tubes. Instead I use stacks of dry newspaper to test bullets that might encounter heavy bone, having four through plenty of experimentation that it simulates field results closer than anything else, both in retained weight and depth of penetration. You can also shoot more than one bullet into the same stack, providing side-by-side comparisons.

My educated guess, however, based on past experience is 286 Partitions would out-penetrate 320 Woodleighs, for the reason you stated: the larger mushroom of the bonded Woodleigh.

Thank you. I will continue to read through the thread. I did notice that some of the questions I had were answered further on in this lengthy thread. I'll look into getting some E-Tips. I expect that a box or two will last me and my kids essentially forever.

Edit - I will have to get a few more than that so I can shoot for proficiency.

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