Unlike the TV hunting shows where the deer always turns broadside, I had a buck (9 pointer) facing me straight on and had only stopped for a few seconds. I hit him in the front going straight back, almost straight down the middle. Missed his heart, might have nicked a lung. He acted hit, but I diod not find him in the first 50 yards, so we did a tracking job. Found him after him going maybe 250 yards downhill. Plenty of blood to track. Entrance hole was about 1" in diameter (?), and that's where the blood came out. He bled a lot internally.

I was using a .30-06 with 150 gr Accubond at around 2850 fps from my 20" barrel carbine.

On body length shots like this, ya think a heavier bullet would have been better?

I shot end to end on one like that a few years back. I was shooting a 7mm/08 with 154 grain Hornady RN bullets. Did about 75 yards worth of tracking on that one. Highly unusual for that rifle. It was the last year I used that bullet out of that rifle.

Folks tend to aim a little low on a frontal, myself included.

I started shooting maybe six-inches higher and it picks up the spine every single time. That dumps them most rickey-tick.

Steve

Not a gun writer here, but took that shot as a teenager with a 30-06, 180 gn Hornady RN. I caught a 5x5 buck walking up a trail directly toward me and so I thought I'd see how close he'd get. Well, he got REALLY CLOSE, like 5 yards before I shot him. My fixed 4x Weaver pretty much just showed hair. I centered on fur and shot. The buck went up on 2 legs for what seemed like 5 seconds or more and crashed right in front of me. Scared the begeezes out of me young self when it looked like a bighorn getting ready to ram me. Can't help but remember the look in it's eyes when on 2 legs. If there can be a look of bewilderment in a buck's eyes, that sure must have been it.

Turned out that I pretty much center punched the heart.

Since then, I think every front-on shot has been to center it up on the white spot under the chin. But I'm not really a trophy hunter, so I don't care about mounts

I don't think a heavier bullet would have made any difference based on the information you provided. The only thing that would have worked better is to have gotten a solid hit on a lung or the heart, and that isn't as easy to do on a shot from the front vs. one from the side, OR as Steve said a spine shot. From the side you can get both lungs AND possibly a piece of the heart. Based on the shot you were presented, it appears you had the right bullet.

Not particularly. A heavier one might have gone out the other end but a deer is not going to bleed that much around the butt and hips - all the heavy bleeding will be in the chest cavity - so you probably would not have gotten a more extensive blood trail.

I made the same shot with a Winchester 100 grain semi pointed silvertip out of a .257 Roberts....the deer dropped in it's tracks....DRT

I strongly believe we should not judge a bullet by one incident....unless there's a lot of evidence it was a normal occurrance.....and this isn't the case with accubonds!

I think the only problem was your bullet missed the key vital areas allowing this buck to travel farther with both heart and lungs intact. Not sure a heavier bullet would have changed the outcome in your example.

Two seasons ago I had a deer facing dead straight at me. Put the cross hairs in the center of the white patch in the neck and the deer was DRT.

Yes. A 180gr bullet provides more reliable performance in the 30-06 than a 150 of like construction. However, I don't think your deer would have died any sooner regardless which bullet you use. Your shot destroyed vascular plumbing which is eventually fatal, but not usually instantly fatal. If you want them to die more quickly, or drop at the shot, you have to damage the CNS or skeletal structure, or both. Next time try aiming for the white spot under the chin. Hit there, they tend to travel about 2 feet - straight down.

CT,

There may not be any better bullet for your 7-08 than the one you abandoned. There is nothing wrong with the 154gr Hornady that a little better placement won't cure.

In 50 yrs. of deer hunting I have shot three buck that were facing me. The first, a 254# 10pt. was shot with a Hornady 180gr. RN from a .308, he went about thirty yards. The next two bucks were taken with 12ga. shotgun slug, one went thirty yards and the last was a bang flop. If a frontal shot is all I am presented with I have never hesitated to take the shot.

Can't help but hit something vital, heart or the big blood vessels, or the liver if a little high. I don't like that shot much but sometimes you don't get a choice. Had one facing me that was getting ready to run so I took the shot. Died fast but the bullet hit the stomach. So a quick trip to my cousin's farmyard to rinse out, which was not pleasant below freezing. Could've been worse.

I've only taken two that way. One was an injured little doe that would not have survived the winter. My mercy shot was with a .308 and a 150-gr Nosler Solid Base. The bullet didn't exit but I never found it. The deer went straight down. It ended up being inedible, as everything inside sloshed.

The other deer was a long time ago. That one was with a 45 Colt and a 255 SWC cast bullet. The bullet did go lengthwise, exiting from the left ham. Perhaps three and a half feet of penetration - and may still be going for all I know. The deer went a few feet.

As mentioned, the key is the bullet missed the heart/lungs which allowed your buck to travel further. Like nighthawk, my most memorable frontal shot was at 50yds on a buck in MO that was ready to run. I took the shot with a 270 130gr partition and hit him dead center, low in the chest. He stumbled 30 yds before dying in the middle of a shallow pond. After I dragged him out (freezing weather), field dressing revealed the heart and one lung were liquified.

The AB is optimized to penetrate...and not much of that is needed on a deer.

A heavier bullet of lighter construction like a Ballistic Tip, Berger, or A-Max might have worked better, because it would have done more damage earlier on in the chest cavity itself.

I would have expected the AB to do well, but it's entirely possible to thread the needle and penetrate the entire chest cavity barely missing anything vital on extremely unlucky occasions.

You should count yourself "lucky" you weren't in Vegas that day.

TC

A quality of the BTs, et.al.,is that they tend to fragment creating a larger, but shallower wound area...a fair choice for lighter game.

TC

Monday afternoon I killed a doe in PA. The shot was head on, frontal and a bit lower in elevation. Distance was about 200 yards. I was shooting a 243 Winchester with Barnes 80gr TTSX bullets @ 3400fps. She took about 10 steps backwards. Entrance hole size was considerable and low in the chest, taking the heart & lungs south. It was getting dark so I didn't have much of a chance to look for the bullet and the remainder of its path of destruction. It did not exit!

I've taken quite a few head-on over the years with 12 and 20 gauge slugs, .30-30, .243 and muzzleloader. That shot has always proven particularly devastating usually taking out heart, lungs and liver. I've never had a deer go far after taking one front to back regardless of what they were shot with and the majority have just dropped in their tracks.

I've shot a few facing me and they generally don't go far. I aim for the brisket bone and drive the bullet thru the top of the heart and the lungs. It's worked with the 250 Savage[100gr remingotn RN], 284win[154gr Hornady RN], and 6.5x55 [120gr Nosler Solid Base].

I've had frontal aspect shots before, but always at a slight angle. The deer never went very far.

My friend shot a very big Mulie buck head on many moons ago. He was using a .300 Win Mag and the original 200gr X bullet. The buck drop on the spot and the bullet was recovered under the hide behind the ham.

I don't think anything other than a CNS hit will give you 100% drop on the spot. On the other hand sometimes they drop right there from a lung shot. Animals are funny that way.

I think your 250 yard tracking job has mostly to do with missing the heart, and possibly the lungs too. Just a little different shot placement and your tracking job will be much shorter, imo.

+1 Aim for the throat patch.

Made that same shot on two deer on consecutive days. At the shot the deers front legs went straight back and the deers head hit the ground. Deer took off running , head on the ground, pushing with the back legs. Ran about forty yards 'till they hit a tree.

First deer I ever got was shot with my old 7x57 with a 154 gr. Hornady RN and I center punched his chest just above the brisket at all of 10 yards. There was an immediate gusher of blood fanning out over serveral feet...the deer ran down hill for 40 yards, stumbled and nosed into the ground. We later found the bullet imbedded in a steak from the rear quarter. A frontal shot is deadly but there is not be much room for error...a little to the left or the right and you can have a real problem on your hands.

Yup doesn't matter the projectile; bang-flop.

Amen on that shot placement. Not only does it take out the spine, but blows bone into the heart, lung, liver region.

I think that a more violently expanding bullet would have killed a bit quicker.

I don't think a heavier bullet would be the right direction to get that effect.

I shot a nice white tail buck just like that about 5 years ago. We were only 70 yards apart or so andhe didnt flinch a muscle. Fell dead with his hooves in his tracks. I was using a .30-06 with 150 grain core loks. I was also aiming just under the throat patch by an inch or so

I shot a spike muley head on that way last year. He dropped straight down, because the 100gr Hornady interlock from the 250 Savage hit the spine. My second shot at my antelope buck this year was just about head on (first shot missed and hit the leg). He spun around twice and dropped. Same 250 Savage, same 100gr Hornady interlock. That one hit the lungs and the heart. 70 yards or so for the muley, 200 or so for the antelope.

I will second my old buddy Steve (Dogzapper) on shooting facing animals a little higher than most people do. The lowest place I'd aim is the "dimple" at the bottom of the neck, which the Germans have some nifty compound name for that I can't remember right now. If you put the bullet there, or a little higher, the animal drops from a broken spine. Even if the bullet is a little off, they'll usually drop and a cut carotid or jugular will bleed them out quickly.

I've seen a bunch of animals from pronghorn to Cape buffalo dropped with a shot from the "dimple" upward.

Schnelltotmachenhalsplatz, vielleicht?

Shot a doe this fall with the White and a 460gr. no-excuse conical. Not dead nuts front on but pretty close. Clipped the point of the shoulder (near side) going in and found the bullet under the hide after travelling throught the opposing ham. Cool thing was with that big slow slug the HQ wasn't hurt at all, just a ragged hole. Couldn't have found an angle to go much further through a deer. Gotta love kenetic energy. was also the nicest looking mushroomed bullet I've ever seen - lost 5 grains.

Shot one with a 257 roberts and 120 gr core lokt from that angle and it went in the right side of the chest bored a hole in the neck vertebrate and exited the off side hip. Pretty much DRT. I really don't think you could say in your case. I've seen deer drt when you couldn't find where they had been hit and have seen them run after being hit perfectly in the heat lung area leaving a blood trail that Ray Charles could follow. It seems every one is different.

Do that in the East Texas woods and some redneck will be claiming your deer because you aint gonna find him.



No. As Dogzapper said, frontal shots tend to be low. You have to picture your bullets path through the vitals before you shoot and aim accordingly.

My brother-in-law shot a heavy Axis buck at 40 yards frontal with a 300 Wby, 180 gr Scirocco moving 3200 fps. The bullet did not exit. I found it in the third stomach. You just can never predict what a bullet is gonna do, even when you think you have the magic bullet.

That's easy for you to say.

And if he won't pick up his head so as to present that shot?

My wife shat a muley this year with her 243 and 95 grain bt at 250 yds. It was a strong quartering away shot.It entered at the last rib and exited out the throat. He went about 5 yards. The was about a 6x4 chunk of lung laying there when we found the deer. That deer was the only one I have dressed that had no blood in the stomach cavity, or the head and lung area.

I center punched this deer in the brisket with a 155gr A-Max from a .308 win @ 200 yds. He took one big leap and it was all over. I was quite surprised to have him die that quickly.

About 10 years ago in VA, I shot a doe in the chest from about 15 feet with a TC contender in .41 MAG, shooting the Speer 220 gr. Semi-jacket SP over a max load of H110. Hit the sternum, and ribs, and deflected out the opposite hip. Deer stumbled, staggered about 5 yards, presented a broadside shot, whereupon I shot it with a Sierra 210 JHC. The first round left about a 50 cal hole all the way through, no expansion that I could find in the post mortem. the JHC left a fist sized hole all the way through.

Charlie - mighty nice buck!

Nice Deer!

GUILTY!

I don't doubt it was the fault of the trigger squeezer in that instance. I did quite a bit of experimenting with that rifle. It seemed to shoot everything I tried ridiculously well, except for those 154 grain RN's. There were so many other good bullets that it shot so well, I just didn't revisit those.

That is a lot to ask of any bullet. I shot a doe that way with a 180gr core lokt from a .308win. She fell on her butt, then got up and ran about 50 yards. The only blood there was at the site she dropped. She, like yours bleed a lot internally and the shoulder was pretty blood shot.

It took a doe this year with a quartering toward me shot. She was feeding and head on. I could have take her in the back of the neck when the head was down, but waited. After five minuntes she gave me that quartering angle. I used a 180 gr. Hornady RN at 2580 fps from an '06. The range was about 50 yd. The bullet left a small entrance and exit wound.. Entry on the shoulder, and exit behind the ribs. She went 50 yd. and crashed into a balsam fir thicket. She probably would have gone a little farther with out the trees. I'm pretty sure I only got one lung, but it was raining so I didn't spend a lot of time investigating.