Is Reloader 17 "slowing down" as more pressure tested load data is published? I am looking to get more powder, primarily for my .270 Win's to replace my dwindling supply of IMR4831. Looking at Alliant's data http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...ight=130&shellid=63&bulletid=180 3136fps out of a 24 inch barrel isn't much if any faster than many suitable powders that Hodgdon's data lists.
I also just got load data from Berger for their 130, 140, and 150 grain .277 bullets and the velocity of the R17 loads is for all practical purposes the same as the other powders listed, in .270 win at least.

I have gotten over 3050fps with several different 130 bullets and 56.0 gr of IMR4831 and a CCI200 in my 22 inch barrels with no excessive pressure signs and good case life for many years. Should I just buy another keg of IMR4831 and stop experimenting?

Reloder 17 never was as fast as Internet rumor made it out to be.

Since there wasn't much data, most reloaders were winging it, depending on traditional pressure signs to work up loads. These have been demonstrated to often not occur until pressures approach or even exceed 70,000 psi.

I think John is correct. I have long been suspect of velocities reported on this site and others, always figured pressures were pretty high on those loads.

After seeing the pressure tested data that is what I suspected. I think I will try Ramshot Hunter. Big Game has been gret in my 7mm-08 and 30-06. Thanks for the reply.

RL-17 won't give you velocity gains in every application. But to say it won't in all applications is poppycock!

I've loaded it in the 6.5 Creedmoor and had a safe load at over 2900 with the 140. My load with H4350 runs just under 2800.

With the 200 gr Accubond in the .30-06, you will see similar gains.

I will also tell you that the velocity gains come at a price; there is no free lunch. The price is shorter barrel life. I've experienced that too

I agree with that... but would add RL17's useful application spectrum where actual velocity gains is possible is fairly limited.

I found it gave about 60 fps faster with most bullet weights in the 300 WSM over any other powder... definitely a gain, but only a modest gain.

I'm still quite skeptical about much of the R17 info making the rounds in popular information circles. It seems to me that people were quite amazed and thrilled with the magic this powder had when it first came out. And there really was a dearth of tested data so we didn't know what we had. Of course, having a limited and difficult to access supply of many powders in the same burn range didn't help. R17 was there for us even lacking data, and, being hand loaders, we burned it.

My experience with RL17 is that Allian's 300 WSM data is INSANE.

With multiple 300 WSM's I couldn't get close to the listed loads or velocities without pressure signs.

I've also heard that RL17 is not in fact a "new" powder but is a slightly reformed Swiss powder originally developed for the 7.5mm Swiss... can't confirm it though.

I guess I'm just plain lucky as RL 17 exceeded my expectations in 4 different 300 WSM's, and no I didn't "wing it" either. I started at below Alliants data and worked up.



=Rem 700 SPS 24" barrel
=Rem 700 Ti 24" barrel
=FN SPR 24" barrel
=Sako A7 24" barrel

All four of these 300 WSM rifles pretty much got the same listed velocity at 3,000+ mv.

My 6.5-284 with 49.0 grains and 140 VLD's at 3,000 does real well with it too.

My personal experience has been that RL17 performs well in my 300wizzum and in the 6.5x284 and 284win calibers.
Usually improved accuracy and able to match velocity of other powders with several less grains (ie:costs less per round).

In the 270win, got great accuracy with 130s, but with somewhat reduced load/velocity but still a deer destroyer with solid base noslers.
jmho
Tim

In a 270, I am shooting the 110g Barnes Tipped tripple shock with 57.5g of R#17 and a Federal 215 primer at 3550 with 1/2" accuracy. Same load with the 110g Sierra Pro Hunter 110g. I neck size the brass after firing, that is all I care about.

The trajectory is extremely flat between 200-300 yards, and I doubt if I will go back to a 130g bullet.

I wouldnt use anything else in a 6 X 47L cartridge I shoot.

John what evidence do you have that its not faster? I asked you the same question and you gave a rather blunt response that it wasnt what the "internet" rumors said it was. Well, your a "gun writer" have you tested it against other powders? Your buddy Charlie sisk has pressure testing equipement why not get empirical evidence before, dismissing it as "internet" rumor????? The guys over at www.6mmbr.com have tested it and are getting 150 to 200fps faster velocities, granted they are using long barrels but its a god send to them. It would be great if someone tested it in hunting length barrels to get some hard data instead of dismissing it as a rumor.....

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html for reference and it seems 100 to 150 fps is more the norm velocity gains with heavy for caliber bullets

I don't think it was intended to bring higher velocities generally--you're right-- but in my 284, the one I've really tested, I worked up loads for the 140-gr TTSX and the 150-TTSX with both R17 and H4350. In both cases (no pun) I got about 150-175 fps more with the former. I worked up to slightly flattened primers and a hint of an ejector mark with both. This brought me to 3100 fps with the 140 and 2975 with the 150 with R17. I then backed down a 1.5 grains until I sat at a hair under 3000 fps for the 140 and right at 2900 fps for the 150. With H4350 I had the flattened primers and ejector marks about 150 fps short of those final velocities with R17. Same primers of course, same COL, etc.

This increase with R17 over H4350 may just be a quirk with my rifle or even a quirk with that powder lot or may not be. Of that I'm not sure but those are pretty good speeds for the 284 case and those bullet weights. I do have a 23" tube.

I couldn't get close either.I tried some in my 300WSM with 165gr bullets and got 3160fps with 65.0grs of R-17 with a 2" group and with 66.0grs I got 3225fps with 66.0grs of R-17 with a 4" groups.Alliant shows 68.0grs as max.I didn't even shoot the other loads I had made up,I just knew I better stop when I did.Great velocities but,it could have something to do with my short throat in my 300WSM.I could be getting a pressure spike way before I get to a max load.I know I'm not up against the lands,but my best loads with this rifle usually get just over 3000fps with a 165gr bullet.Now my 300 Win Mag is a different story.It does remarkably well with R-17.72.5grs of R-17 gives me 3220fps with a 180gr bullet and 1/2"groups.

From what I have read most of the hoopla about RL17 came from 6BR. In tests with the 6XC it did have quite a gain. It was well matched for this cartridge. That doesn't mean it is a magic powder in every application. It works in some cases but hasn't proven to offer much for most cases. Similar is Hornady's Superfomance works with some combos but not with just any bullet/cases combination.

I really wanted H4350 to be as fast as RL17 in my 25-284, since I keep a lot of H4350 on hand. Their burn rates are supposed to be fairly close, but H4350 hit pressure signs about 100fps before RL17 when shooting on the same day with the same bullets and brass. 40-50fps is generally not enough to make me keep another powder on the shelf, but getting near 100fps gain is of interest.

Just my experience....

I got 3,030 with 64.0 RL17 in a 300 WSM (24" Kimber) and 3,000 fps with the same load in a 23" M70.

66.0 at 3,082 would have locked up my bolt. And actually, 66.0 would have gone far over 3,100 in my rifles.

3,030 in the Kimber and 3,000 in the M70 allowed easy extraction. Over that things got sticky... and a hunting rifle should have easy extraction.

So, for me, the gain was around 50-60 fps over H4350... not monumental to my way of thinking.

DarkStar,

Gee, I guess I stepped on some toes here!

I explained exactly why I came to the conclusion that the "magic" velocity gains with RL-17 were mostly an Interent myth in a fairly recent RIFLE magazine article titled "Designed Powders," about the history of improvements in smokeless powders. Sorry so many people apparently missed it. I'll quote some pertinent info from that article:

"The main reason for all the RL-17 excitement is a report on the website www.6mmbr.com. Two very knowledgeable handloaders, German Salazar and Bob Jensen, ran some pressure tests with RL-17 in the 6XC case, using an Oehler 43 strain-gauge system, obtaining velocities up to 200 fps faster than those achieved with any other powder. They reported their results in an on-line article with headings such as �State-of-the-Art Powder Delivers Amazing Velocities� and �Paradigm Shift In Powder Performance.�
"There�s no doubt that their results are valid, but the 6XC is a specialized wildcat, developed by well-known high-power target shooter David Tubb. It�s typical of modern target rounds, with a short, fat case and long neck, and normally loaded with very sleek 6mm target bullets in the 107-115 grain range.
"Internet chat rooms suddenly buzzed with this information, and soon almost every handloader on the planet expected an extra 200 fps from ANY cartridge loaded with the new Wonder Powder. Thus they started stuffing cases with RL-17 until they got as much speed as possible, once again judging pressures by whether or not the case came apart. Not so amazingly, some guys did coax an extra 200 fps out of their .30-06!
"But if we examine Alliant�s pressure-tested data (see sidebar) we find that while RL-17 does provide a velocity advantage in some cartridge/bullet combinations, the gain rarely reaches 100 fps, and in many cartridges other powders provide more velocity. The �paradigm shift� found in the 6XC case is not due to a magic powder, but the fact that only a few powders are suitable for a very specialized cartridge. Reloder 17 just happens to be the perfect match for the 6XC.
"In Alliant�s data RL-17 also appears to be the perfect match for the .25 WSSM, another very specialized round. In more common cartridges, such as the .30-06, there are already dozens of appropriate powders, and RL-17 faces tougher competition. One example is Alliant�s new Power Pro series. Alliant�s website even states that �Each Power Pro powder is engineered for a specific use��and Power Pro 4000MR is among the powders that beats RL-17 in some cartridges, including the .30-06."

I can't reproduce the side-bar, because for some reason the data comes out scrambled, but it compares Reloder 17 data with the top velocities from other powders, using Alliants PRESSUE-TESTED DATA. But here are a fw main points:

The biggest gain over other powders is in the .25 WSSM with 120-grain bullets, which shows a top velocity 127 fps higher with RL-17 than any other Alliant powder.

It also shows gains over RL-19 with some bullets the .300 WSM, 104 fps with 165's and 82 fps with 180's. But the RL-17 data was shot with Speer boattails, and the RL-19 shot with Speer flat-bases, which develop more pressure, so all that data isn't really comparable.

The next highest gain is 78 fps with 100-grain bullets in the .243 Winchester. The third highest is 60 fps with 200-grain bullets in the .325 WSM. And that's ONLY comparing it to other Alliant powders, not all powders on the market.

In some combinations RL-17 is slower than other powders. With 200-grain bullets in the .30-06 the top RL-17 speed is 2552 fps, not particularly exciting and also 43 fps SLOWER than with Alliant's new 4000-MR. In the 6.5x55 with 140's it's 147 fps SLOWER than any other powder listed, and in the .338 Winchester with 225's it's 113 fps behind.

Please note there there are no 150-200 fps gains anywhere in Alliant's pressure-tested data. Instead there's a fairly normal mix of 75-100 fps gains a few cartridge/bullet combinations. This can occur with about any new powder, not because of any "paradigm change" but (as with the 6XC) the powder matches up well. But in most cartridges RL-17 shows just about what we'd expect from a powder in it's burning-rate range.

Now, let's look at some of the loads mentioned so far in this thread:

Somebody mentioned getting 2900 fps with the 6.5 Creedmoor and 140-grain bullets. There is no Alliant data for the 6.5 Creedmoor, so he has no idea about what pressure his handload might be getting.

Somebody mentioned getting fantastic velocities with the 200-grain AccuBond in the .30-06. Alliant's data (as mentioned above) lists a maximum load producing 2552 fps, 43 fps slower than listed with 4000MR.

SU35 got great velocities with 180-grain boattails in the .300 WSM--by starting with Alliant's maximum load and working up. This makes me suspect that his loads are in the 70,000 psi range.

Similarly, Keith is getting 3550 fps with 110-grain TSX's in the .270 Winchester. There is NO Rl-17 data for that bullet listed by either Alliant or Barnes, so my guess (again) is that pressures are probably right up there.

I've tested RL-17 in a number of rifles and cartridges. It's a fine powder, and does produce 50-100 fps more in a few cartridge/bullet combinations--just as many powders do, thanks to matching up well. But Hodgdon Hybrid 100V is capable of much higher gains in certain cartridges, yet there hasn't been any huge excitement over it,
due to two factors:

1) No website proclaimed it a "paradigm shift."
2) Hodgdon released a bunch of pressure-tested data along with the powder, so handloaders didn't have as much chance to "work up" loads the old-fashioned way, by looking signs of case distress. As I've mentioned many times in various articles over the years, these often don't show up until pressures reach 70,000 psi or thereabouts. ANY powder will result in pretty zippy muzzle velocities at 70,000 psi.

RL-17 has it's place with certain cartridges/bullets and weights.The 375 H&H with 300 and 350 grain bullets comes to mind.

Jayco

MD, good post. I'm sometimes amazed at the velocities or gains some claim. I understand variation, but some of these are outrageous. I recently saw a claim of 3650 fps in a 7 SAUM with 120 grn bullets that was "safe". I punched the load into QL and it showed around 78,500 psi. I know QL is not exact, but I think it's at least a clue things are a little hot.

Some guys are always determined to turn a 308 Win into a 30-06, a 30-06 into a 300 WSM, a 300 WSM into a 300 WM, a 300 WM into a 300 RUM, and so on... it's a mystery for sure, but I think it's also true.

Somebody mentioned getting fantastic velocities with the 200-grain AccuBond in the .30-06. Alliant's data (as mentioned above) lists a maximum load producing 2552 fps



So, the above load requires 51gr of RL-17. The 06 has been around a long time, well since 06, and has been chambered in nearly every action type so far invented. In a modern action would 54grs for 2725fps be =/< 65,000 psi. And, does the rate of twist have an influence on dynamic resistance?

And there are people on this site that advocate a 200 grainer at 2,850 from a 24" 30-06...

And there are people like John Barsness that think 2800 fps out of a 24" barrel with a 200 grain pill is very doable.

Owe geez..Not this again.

Jayco

Is that with the lightweight bullets in the 25-284? I use RL22 with the 100 grainers but H4350 with the 75 V-Max. What speeds are you seeing? Thanks.

I ran out and bought 8 pounds of the stuff when it first came out. Mainly because it was curiously available, compared to other powders at that time. I tried it in most of my rifles in various calibers. I saw no magic and generally poor accuracy. What I did quickly notice is that Re 17 is apparently best in terms of accuracy at the maximum loads. This is not that different from what I have seen with most other powders I use.

It turn out to be the accuracy champ in my extremely finicky 7mm WSM with the 140 grain Barnes TTSX. It didn't do as well as Re 19 with 150s and 160s.

It also didn't do as well as most of my long established combinations for my other calibers and rifles. I recognize it's usefulness and don't expect more.

And I disagree with John on that one... and while I almost never disagree with John, I almost always disagree with you.

Actually, I never said 2800 was anything except perhaps possible, with some 200-grain bullets. It would depend on exactly the right powder as well, and perhaps even the lot of powder.

Lists 2688 fps for 200's in their manual with Reloder 22. This would be at the SAAMI maximum of 60,000 psi. If we up the pressure to 65,000 (SAAMI acceptable for certain cartridges in that class) the muzzle velocity would be somewhere in the 2750+ range.

Exactly how much velocity would increase isn't as easily computable with a double-based powder as it would be with a single-based powder, where velocity normally increases at the same rate as powder charge, with pressure increasing at twice the rate of velocity. With double-based powders everything isn't as predictable.

While the higher energy of double-based powders would probably be needed to get 2750+ at 65,000 from a 200-grain bullet in the .30-06, no double-based powder is quite as temperature resistant as the single-base Hodgdon Extremes. The Ramshot rifle powders are the most temp-resistant double-based powders I've worked with, but in with the exception of RL-15 the Reloder powders I've tested have been average. While it might be possible to get very close to 2800 with SOME 200-grain bullets in the .30-06 at 65,000 psi, my guess is that pressures would be a pretty touchy at warmer temperatures.

The other question, of course, is why bother? A .300 WSM or .338-06 will easily get 2800 out of 200-grain, without having to lean on it hard.

MD

What powder do you recommend trying with 200 grain NPT/AB in 300WSM?

I like H4831SC and usually shoots very well. It gets plenty of velocity, and doesn't lose that velocity in cold weather.

Actually you said:Personally I don't think 2800 with a 200-grain is out of line with a 24" barreled .30-06.

But then again who cares,I sure don't.I don't use the 200 grain in my '06 and if I thought I needed a 200 grain in .308,I would use my 300 Win Mag,but I don't,the 180 has done everything I have ever asked of it.

Jayco

H4831 has never not been deadly, perhaps even in spite of me.

The other question, of course, is why bother? A .300 WSM or .338-06 will easily get 2800 out of 200-grain, without having to lean on it hard.


Loony-ism I guess. A 200 NAB is 'show-off accurate' at 2700+ in my Sako Finnlight, but this requires 3gr over book. Tried the RL-22 and 200gr bullet, full case, not enough velocity, poor accuracy at least poor rifle range accuracy. I have not used this load for hunting, still using H-4350, 168TSX-BT @ 2885fps. Thinking that load might be a bit stiff, but is it as stiff as the 53gr RL-17/200gr load?

I used RL17 and H4350 when working up loads for my 243 and the 80gr TTSX. I ended up sticking with RL17 because of accuracy, not velocity. Although the RL17 was slightly faster(40-50fps), it was much more accurate in my particular rifle.

My concern with RL17 is temp sensitivity. After it gets good and cold here, I'll shoot a few and comparare notes.

John, the original question WAS a 200 at 2,850... I disagreed with that and incurred the wrath of logcutter. I've always maintained 2,800/200/24" "may" be possible with the sun, moon and stars aligning, but nothing more. And I'd still not go there.

Logcutter has constantly dragged you into this for some reason (likely to give credibility to his idiocy) but I'm still of the firm opinion 2,850 with a 200 from a 30-06 is, while possible, completely stupid.

But then the source should be considered.

Brad,

Yep, I agree completely on all points.

I load RL17 under moly'd 208 AMax in a 308 Win.

I've noted my velocities run around 2620 fps at 70F, and drop to around 2580 fps at 30F.

Rule of thumb, about 1 fps per degree of temp change.

Brad

First get it right..It was not about me but a man that shot all 29 species of North American game twice with a 30-06 plus he has taken 11 Grizzlies, 3 Kodiaks, and 2 Polar Bears.You were arguing with him telling him it was an overload..I only stepped in and showed data to back up his load...

He also PM'd me and ask me if I would post what John said about his load,and I said yes...

Jayco

John, with reputable brass, such as Lapua, what would be the long term effects of running an action/barrel at 70,000 psi? We know from loads posted, and "pressure signs", that many seem to be doing this, and over a prolonged period of time. Just wanting your opinion on what the consequences would be, if any. I mention the brass as a factor, only because certain brands seem to take more pressure to develop the signs that most look for.

Thanks!

R.

When RL17 is "right", it's good stuff. While it's not a w�nder-powder, it's turned out to be "right" in a couple cartridges for me. I'm a fan.

Shane,

What length barrel are you running and are you seatng at 2.80" or longer?

You, shouldn't even be looking at a backlit screen of any kind, even if you're wearing sunglasses. If you want a lifetime of crippling migraines and light sensitivity, keep it up. Ask me how I know!

R.

Thanks MD.

20.5" Rem varmint bbl. 3.00" OAL, Win brass. Barrel has several thousand rounds through it, so the throat has some wear.

I'm also shooting a new-ish 26" 308 (Rem varmint) it gets to 2675 fps with one grain less powder than the 20.5" uses. I pushed it to 2725 fps but started to get a little ejector smear and backed off a grain to 2675 fps.

RL17 seems to be a great combo in the 308 with 200+ gr bullets.

I'm lucky enough to have two friends who pressure check different calibers and was kinda surprised at RL-17 with 300 and 350 grain bullets in the 375 H&H since I just acquired one a while back.

The bottom line is,it appears to be cartridge/bullet specific.Sometimes it is the best of the best and others it's like a sex rock..Just another [bleep] powder!

To bad there isn't more actual pressure checked data out there for RL-17 so we all can see if it fits our needs.

Jayco

Some people swear by R22 but H4831sc was the powder for 200's. It's gonna be a case full of slighty compressed powder but it should fit and (within reason)made about 2900fps/24".

R17 is H3450 plus about 50fps.
I shot 180's at about 2950 with H4350, 3000 or so now with R17. Same accuracy and from 10-90F I would't be worried about temp sensitivity from either. Colder than that and maybe H4350 would be better.
Only reason I switched was because powder was hard to find a couple years ago but local store had a bunch of same lot# '17 on the shelf.



Like Brad said, Alliant data was too hot for my rifles, about 2 grains over what worked.

Ol Sam the Mule deer slayer.I still have the picture of that buck you sniped earlier in the year burned in my mind.I bet I've gone back and looked at it a dozen times. Pulled the trigger on any more Bro Sam! powdr

Powdr, just one buck up here per year unless you're an Indian.
Yeah, real sniper at 130 yards....grin

Got an extra 75fps or so out of my 25-06 with RL-17. That being said, RL-22 gave me almost 150fps. This was using 100gr NBT's. I still prefer H4831sc though. It's more consistent as far as velocities and group sizes.
With RL17 and 22, one day it may print a .50 in group, next day it opens to 1.25 in. I don't have this problem with H4831. It always group's .75 or better, unless I screw something up.

Back to RL 17, I've run it in 3 cartridges - 7mm and .300 SAUM, and the .260 Rem.. I saw very modest gains in velocity in all, but accuracy wasn't as good as H4350 and H4831. And it seemed to run kinda hot in my SAUM's..

Sam,

I shot my buck (whitetail) this year at 30 yards. Had to crank in some serious elevation on that one!

Yeah, I have to do some negative turret turning in the timber on my elk a week or so ago as well...

But man I was ready, 300 WSM, 155 Scenars and a M1 and I practiced all summer to range with it. Even I could of made the shot I did with a 303 Brit..

Dober

HA!

I was using a 6.5x55 with the 140 Partition (BC .496) at 2700 fps. The scope was a 2-7x Leupold. When sighted-in 2" high at 100 yards and set on 7x, it puts the bullet right at the tip of the bottom post at 400. Old-fashioned, but effective...

Oh, and I had the scope cranked up all the way up 7x, and was still able to see the deer! That's because the field of view is about 5-1/2 feet wide at 30 yards....

I no longer have my notes on the Re17...I tried loading a Roberts with the 80 gr. TTSX & the 100 gr. TSX...during the same range trip I'd also loaded some 80 & 85 gr. Barnes for a .243 & the results for both were the same...wild variations in velocity & sticky feeling bolts before I got anywhere near what should have been max loads. The stuff scared me bad enough that I won't use it. It may have been a bad batch of powder, I don't know...for those interested in the white blocks at the bottom of the bottle, the left side says CE0519 & on the right it has...
Aug 2 2009
Shift Z
Lot 02709

Mostly full bottle that won't get used again.

I just found some of the recorded data I had on the .243 mixed in with some misc. notes... 43 gr. with the 85 gr. TSX resulted in the following velocities 3177, 3462, 3363.
The 3462 reading resulted in a bolt that was stiffer than it should have been & was put in the notes...

"I shot my buck (whitetail) this year at 30 yards. Had to crank in some serious elevation on that one!"

Dang. I am a long range hunter! Took mine at about 75 yards this year... With a .308 Win that's very accurate at 600 yards. Sheesh...

My experience with RE17 has been good and kinda bad, shot this nice group @300yds with 53.5grs under 180SBTs then .5grs more the group was 4" left and 3" higher, whats up with that? Tried some with my 6mm Rem and 105AMAXs, accuracy so bad I didnt save the targets. Ill be testing some with 154SSTS in my 708 in the spring, fingers crossed. 162 AMAXs didnt care for the powder so much, either.

And the 54grain group was much larger, too, grrrrrr

Just found this thread so sorry to bring up old wounds. Anyways, I think I have found another cartridge that RL-17 seems works very well in. It's a 338-06AI. Now I'm not claiming to get 150-200 fps gains over other "established" powders but there are definitely gains to be had. 65-90 fps with great accuracy is what I experinced using 210 and 225 gr bullets. If the accuracy hadn't come along with this gain in velocity I would not be writing this. Now, if a person checks a ballistic table, gains like these for most real world hunting situations make very little difference but when you can sneak that much more out of your cartridge and still have outstanding accuracy, who wouldn't take it and run. Cheers.

RL 17 boosted my velocity considerably in short mags

I don't care what the chrono says...R-17 once beat up Chuck Norris, so that's enough for me.

Yea, for all the slinging copper with my 284 down range to 500 yds. In anticipation, I took my old mulie buck at ~ 100 yds, not on the hill but down in the bottom among the cottonwoods. The 150-gr TTS at 2900 went "coast to coast" though, brisket to pubis. This rifle and R17 seem to be in the same Mutual Admiration club -- not that it was needed for this shot.

................Correct! Speed wise, RL17 has probably excelled down more 300 WSM bores than any other round.

While it is primarily a short magnum powder, that`s not to say it won`t excel for faster speeds in the 270, 30-06 and with other standard rounds.

Bullet speeds acquired depends on EACH individual bore.

It works quite well in my 300Win Mag too.72.5grs of R-17 with a 165gr Speer Deep Curl gives me 3260fps one ragged hole groups.That same charge with 180gr Deep Curls pushes right along at 3210fps with nearly the same size group.

I tried it as soon as it came out in my 338-06 Ackley, and didn't see any gain or improvement.

H-4350 still wins by a landslide........

Huh, no aalf I actually got between 75 and 140 fps gains but started to see signs of evil so backed off to more sane levels. Up until I tried this powder I too was using H4350.

I have found out that my Wife's Roses love RL 17.Did not work so well in my rifles!!!

Did a ladder work up for shooting buddies 6.5x47L.
Back in April.Temps were 48 to 55F
140g Berger Hybrid was running just under 2950 FPS.
Good solid accuracy at 500 Yards.
At the first 1000 yard match temps went from say 50 to 70 during the course of the day.
All day long two thing happened.
We had to take off "up" clicks, as the day got warmer.
The warmer the day got.
The more targets we missed.
Higher temps took us out of the "node" and accuracy took a dump.

Reloader 17.
A good lawn fertilizer.

dave

From my TIKKA T3 Lite in 9.3 X 62, getting 100 fps more from RL-17 than RL-15 with the same 286 NPs. Less pressure and accuracy sub-MOA.

"100 fps more" translates to 2546 fps. It's the only powder that will be used in my 9.3 X 62 going forward. Slower than RL-15 and faster than IMR4350 and H414. About perfect for 286s, I'd say. My COL is 3.36" with NPs.

And, it's not a "short and fat" case as everyone knows.

Cases last "forever".

I could well believe it to be among the "best" powders for the .375 H&H.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Dave,

In my tests with a .30-06 and 165's RL-17 didn't do very well at zero F., and it should be about right for that bullet weight.

Other people have had different results, but scenarshooter also had problems in cold weather. So it probably depends on the load, as with many powders.

John,
We had 140g Berger Hybrids running sub 2 inch groups at 500 yards.At about 50 55 degrees.
Its a very clean powder.
Meters great.
As the temps climbed over the course of the day our accuracy went out the window.
Im thinking its the amount of change in temps.
If your looking at a 20 degree temp change over the course of a match.Im not sure how you can use the stuff.
Your claimimg problems at zero temps.
I think they need to get back to the lab with the stuff and try again.
I dont mind trying stuff and putting time in to figure stuff out.But i've seen enough.

dave