OK, sambar and elk. The sambar are a touch smaller than elk, but a hell of a lot tougher to stop and .308 is considered the very minimum to reliably stop them, or at least stop them quick enough to find them in dense timber. So i want really optimal bullet performance.

Of course, i could just go up to the 180gr partitions, but i have always felt with the .308, the loss in velocity above about 165gr negated the small benefits with increasing bullet mass with quality bullets (30-06 i'd definitely go to 180gr). However, my ranges will tend to be on the short side (often less than 100 yards). I am still inclined to go with the 165gr accubonds and partitions.

150 grains as long as it is a Barnes.

I really like Barnes and have shot at least a few dozen of animals with them, but i won't be using Barnes for this purpose. Barnes penetrate well, but i also want to open a larger wound tract in this situation so as to increase my likelihood of bringing the animal down more quickly. My experience was that the enhanced penetration of the Barnes comes at the expense of reduced expansion. Certainly at .277 and 7mm, animals with the Barnes all went down, but i would say on average they were more likely to run further than the more expansive bullets. On examination, the wound tracts were far smaller with the Barnes, than say core-lokt (the other bullet i was mostly using at the time). Not an issue when you are using relatively larger calibres for the game you are targeting (and i appreciate some would say .308 is large), but in this situation i really want as big a hole as practical!

Break bones.

Use 180 grain Partitions. They are deadly in a .308.

Steeleman

I'd be inclined to try the 165 Swift Aframe.

I've had good luck with the 180gr Protected Point Partitions in my .308 Win 70 Classic Stainless Fwt. They make a bigger hole than the Barnes TSX's and penetrate well. Also, I've had impressive results with the Hornady 165gr Interbonds out of the same rifle. They open larger than the Partitions, don't penetrate quite as far, but make BIG ol' exit wounds with good blood trails. I've hit a couple of big northern Missouri whitetails (well above 200lbs) raking shots with these and have still gotten complete penetration.

Wish Federal still had their High Energy load with the 180 Partition. That was a rather warm load!

At under 100 yards (most of your shots), I don't see how a 180 grain is going to hinder you any. What's the point of a 165 at those ranges?

In my experience AccuBonds make bigger holes than Nosler Partitions, both because they expand more violently due to the plastic tip, and because the mushroom tends to end up wider, probably due to the jacket getting thicker further down the bullet, plus the bonding.

The Swift A-Frame that Bob suggested would be a good one too, as would the Norma Oryx, which really expands widely. The Oryx, however, is only available in 150 and 180-grain. Another bullet that opens up widely and makes big hole is the Hornady Interbond.

Thanks John. I might start with some factory 180gr Norma Oryx - i like to start with Norma brass anyway. I have used them in 8mm and they really do expand spectacularly at moderate velocities. I doubt any load is going to make as bigger hole out of a .308! It's to go in a little Browning dualis pump (my new old second rifle for visitors) with a 20" barrel, so 180gr just seems right. Everything is really oriented towards quick shooting at close range. If i am unhappy with penetration, i'll go to the partitions or A-frame. Haven't used the A-frame before.

The 165 Nosler Partition will give you extensive, reliable expansion, especially since the 165 weight will let you keep the velocity up. The higher velocity will assure faster expansion, but the rear core will assure good penetration too. I just think the 165 gives a really nice balance in the .308.

I have a hard time telling the difference between an Accubond wound channel and a Partition wound channel, especially since I've never had two identical shots on two identical animals with perfect bullet placement on both. Lots of variables there! Even then, with a sample size of one each, that's hardly conclusive evidence.

Between the two, you might want to try both and let the rifle tell you if it likes one better than the other.

I thought that the .308 Oryx was available in 200 grains.

My best client for many, many years shot a .308. In the early years, he used a Leupold 4X and Remington factory 150-grain Pointed CoreLokt ammo.

He was a postman and could walk. Heck, he even did canyons, which was rare for a paid client.

During the second half of our hunting relationship, he still used the same old Remington 700 BDL (I free-floated it and glassed the recoil lug), but he changed to a Leupold 2-7. About this time, I started handloading for him and he shot Hornady 150-grain Spire Point Interlocked bullets (Item #3031) with 45.0 grains of H-4895 ... for a muzzle velocity of 2,850fps

Len shot one round per elk and he never missed. He refused to shoot at a running elk and simply waited for the shot. He didn't care to shoot over 200-yards, though he did occasionally ... mostly we'd sneak up on the bull and clobber him in his bed at 100-yards. He'd just shoot the bull in the back of the neck, under the ear or tight behind the shoulder

I believe Len killed fourteen or fifteen bulls with me as a guide. He simply never had to shoot twice, never missed and never hurried the shot.

My elk hunting was exactly like that and often he would go out with me when it was time for Karen and I to kill our elk. The hunter is patient, he waits for the shot, he places the one single perfect bullet

And he doesn't need a [bleep]' cannon, for pity's sake.

Lotsa truth here and absolutely no bullshit.

Steve

A lot of good sage advice here, people. Why do these experienced writers, guides and hunters speak with the same basic message? Think about it.

I personally would use the 150 gr Barnes TXS if using my 308 for Elk

When I last used a .308 for elk I was shooting 165gr Sierra boattails out of a 20 inch barreled 99 E Savage or 150gr Power Points from a 22" Model 88.

The 150 killed quickly but I got the impression it was best used on broadside shots as it never shot through.

If I pulled the 88 out to take it hunting today I would likely use 165 grain Bearclaws, Swifts, Partitions or Interbonds. The Interbonds if I wanted them to die quick and didn't care about bloodshot meat.

I wish I was that good.

Hmmm....making a lot of sense here..I like that.

That reminds me of my last guided hunt. The first thing the guide said to me was "Can you walk?".

While I've not used the 308 WCF for elk yet, back in the late 70's and early 80's my dad used 180gr. Partitions out of his Sako L579 Forester Deluxe and dead elk every time.

I know that time has passed and we have so many more choices but I think a partition would still work.

i would feel comfortable with anything from a 130 grain TTSX all the way up to 165 grain partition, accubond....some would say 155, 168, or 175 berger VLD as well

Steve,

Part of my answer was directed toward the sambar part of thw question.

While I haven't hunted sambar, I was starting to plan an Australian hunt a few years ago, but then the part of Oz that has the best hunting burned. But from what I was told by a number of hunters, sambar are different than elk. They're not as large, but they are extremely tough.

The big difference, however, is the hunting. Sambar live in thick stuff, and the big males are extremely wary. You almost never get a shot at a whole animal, and many if not most shots are at steep angles. Even finding a well-shot animal can be very difficult, due to the cover, so most serious sambar hunters favor deep-penetrating bullets, sometimes from cartridges we'd considered over-kill even on elk.

All the way up to 165gr, eh? LOL!

I've used mostly 180-gr. Partitions and a few 165-gr. Interbonds on elk and moose. Both have performed very well. Every shot was tucked behind the shoulder except two, which were a high shoulder shot and a neck shot.

I'd use those bullets again, and I would add the 165 Partition, the 165 AB, or the 150-gr. TSX or TTSX. Among cup and cores, I'd have faith in the Hornady 165 SPBT, which I've used many times on deer.

That is a pretty fair summary, John. Most folks consider the 30-06 a minimum, and probably more when they are hunting with dogs, which gives you a margin of error (in many areas dogs are not allowed). Most serious hunters are carrying the likes of 338 WM, 9.3x62, and plenty of .375 H&H are in the field these days, too. And the trend is to find the bigger rifles in the hands of the more seasoned hunters, which seems to me to be a fairly unique reversal of the general trend! Many folk's choice a rifle to do double service on buffalo and sambar. I have done a bit of elk hunting as well. Elk are very different animals and exist in a very different environment. I don't believe sambar are any harder to kill, but their shear will to keep moving when fatally wounded is something i have not witnessed in other species. And they are a species that originates from the jungles of India (think of the Sundarbuns), so their ability to move through dense forest is unmatched. I 'spose a similar contrast would be seen between the asiatic water buffalo we hunt up north here and the cape buffalo. Our buffalo are actually larger, but by all accounts cape buffalo are far more determined and dangerous game (i haven't hunted cape buffalo). I doubt that cape buffalo are any harder to kill than our animals, but it is their behaviour when hit that makes the difference.

308 works for me..just know your rifle/load & scope...be selective in your shot....make the first shot count...pic shows my late LE public land Utah bull taken last month..44/VV150 & Swift 180 gr Scirroco..Savage 308 Win..two hard hits @ 90 yds bedded down put him in the freezer and on the wall...the Nosler 180 PT was my other bullet choice...but the Swift shot better and higher BC...don't need a wiz bang magnum for elk....rough score is 338 with broken #2..

dhg,

That pretty well sums up the difference in Cape and water buffalo, at least in my limited experience with both. Though even a Cape buffalo doesn't tend to be all that mean if the first shot center-punches the right spot.

Good looking bull there Tikkanut! Congrats.

My .308 sure shoots the 165 Nosler Partition well. Do believe that would be my choice for elk, with that rifle.

When I went to Africa in 2005 my list of animals put me in Zimbabwe for a week, then to a property in Kwa Zulu-Natal for 5 days, then to another property in the Free State for 5 days.

When my PH and I arrived at the KZN property, my PH told the old (my age) Zulu tracker that lived on that property that I wanted to hunt a Nyala. The old Zulu then pointed at me and asked "Can he walk?"

As to the original question of this thread, my choice of bullets for elk from a .308 would be a 168 gr TSX, if it was accurate in my rifle. It is also my bullet of choice for elk from my .300 Weatherby.

If you handload, Barnes data shows most 168 gr loadings at 150-200 fps faster than 180 gr loadings, which would give the 168 gr a little flatter trajectory. Both bullets should expand to about the same diameter mushroom and should easily penetrate into an elk's vitals. Pick the one that is most accurate in your rifle.

Last week I tipped over a big cow elk with a Sierra 165 grain boattail hollowpoint Gameking. I was shooting my 20" Tikka .308.

Great bullet, accurate in everything I have put it through.

My NULA .308 is more accurate with the Barnes 168 TSX BT and H4895 than any of the other many bullet & powder combinations tried. A max. load gets a little over 2700 MV. I have only taken one bull with this load at a range just beyond 300 yards striking the heart / lung area and breaking the opposite shoulder with bullet's exit.

Well I don't hunt elk with the power of super heroes, but pretty much any modern bullet of 150 grains on up is going to kill an elk just fine as long as you put it where it belongs.

I've shot 3 elk with the 308... I like 165's in the cartridge. My first choice would be the 165 NP, but most reasonably constructed cup and core bullets work well at 308 velocities.

150 Accubond

I like the 168 Barnes

Sound advice right there..

The last post on this thread BEFORE today was on 12-18-11.

Do y'all reckon he's still looking for the bullet ?


However, someone else might be.


Jerry

Five year old thread

Last year's added another to the tally... I wanted to use a plain-jane, cup-and-core, one of my favorites, the Speer 165 Hotcore:



This year I'll use the 165 Accubond (all my others have fallen to this bullet), next year maybe the 168 Ballistic Tip, just because...

dhg last post on the Campfire was 5-13-14.

dhg, BARNES!!! I'd probably go with the 150TTSX, great BC and easily pushed to around 2900fps.If you feel more comfortable with a little more weight, the Barnes 165/168 are great, but tend to use up a lot of case capacity in the .308 Win. memtb

Uh...

Hanco strikes again