He lost - this evening....

95 BT - 243, about 100 yds, he made it 40 steps or so.

I keep preaching:

Good bullet - Thru Vitals.....

Drilled shoulders, wrecked vitals...yes it exited - you are looking at the exit in the photo hanging.

6.5 - CONGRATS !

BTW - where have I seen that rifle? looks great.

Jerry

What? You mean the terrible Ballistic Tip didn't explode against the first brown hair it came in contact with? Poppycock.

Musta been photoshopped.....

Do the 95 NBT's need a 9 twist or will they work in a 1-10?

Of course, that's it. You know, all joking aside, the .243 is a great whitetail killer. Some folks go about killing them with .300 Winchester Magnums, and more power to them, but deer don't require that much killing.

Congrats. That's my favorite 6mm bullet!

I like grinding my Venison burger, not Pulverizing it

Guy - has NOT let me down yet....in 6mm, I do like Barnes, but the 95BT has IMHO, all the right goods, accuracy/expansion/penetration and carries well.

I have shot groups UNDER 1/2" - at 200 yds w/this bullet, in a 6BR - and re: TWIST - yes, that rifle Was a 10" twist.

The 95 BT is Not a VLD and works FINE in 10" ROT bbls.

Last weekend a friend's young daughter cleanly killed a buck with a 243. At the skinning shed I asked the assembly how wives, daughters and young boys do so well with a 243, but as soon as a boy's beard starts to come in he needs a bigger rifle?

I never got a good answer.

Certainly not an original question, I've read it here many times. But it was fun to ask.

I don't know why that is. I bought my son a Ruger 77mkIIRL in .257 Roberts when he was ready to hunt at age 8. He just turned 14 and has begun to murmur about wanting something "bigger" to shoot at deer. He has taken deer with a .45 caliber Muzzleloader and a .30-30, but time will tell if he recognizes that deer are just glorified goats.

If you want to see a fair whitetail buck taken with a .243, take look at our website's new photo gallery, on the home page of www.riflesandrecipes.com. Eileen took the buck about a month ago with her new .243, a semi-custom Husqvarna that I bought off the Campfire classifieds earlier this year.

The thing is, Eileen has been resisting trying the .243 because so many people think of it as "the lady's rifle." Of course it worked fine, even on a 200-pound buck. After her buck was dead, I reminded her that she'd killed several fallow deer in Ireland four years ago with a Heym in .243--all with one shot, using Remington Core-Lokt factory loads.

About the only people I've known who apparently have trouble killing deer with the .243 Winchester are some gun writers.

John, I had to giggle at one of the Realtree videos from a year or so ago. One of the "Prostaffers" was hunting at an outfitters and for some reason had to use a .243 handirifle. Of course he went into painful detail on camera prior to showing the hunt about how the .243 was such a "marginal" cartridge on whitetails, but at the crack of the rifle, lo, and behold, the deer ran a short distance and died. I'm no expert, but having shot a few deer, I realize that they just don't require all that much killing.

Not when you hit 'em in the right place!

Indeed. I am confident that if I hit him in the right place, I will humanely kill every deer I will ever shoot with the .243 and will not be scoped shooting left-handed or even really feel any recoil. My preferred cartridge is the .280 Rem but the little winny is all I really need.

its ironic, I remember when the 243 first came out and the gun writers back then were claiming it a great deer/lope and varmint gun all wrapped in one!! Which time has proven.

Already had a beard when the first deer took a .243 thru the neck at ~125 yards. 8 pointer. Then some jerk stole the gun along with some others. I got a bigger gun so they'd have more difficulty in running off with it next time.

Miss that rifle. Winchester 88.

That does it. My 6mm Remmie and 280 Remmie ARE ALL I NEED!

JB - your wife obviously is a better shot than former writer JW.

Dogger - If I never hunted away from here for anything larger than deer/hogs, a 6BR is all I'd ever need, and a 243 will do in a pinch.

I realize many shoot larger rounds for 'greater confidence' and that's fine, use whatever you shoot well, that makes one feel good - before and after the shot.

There are some larger rounds, that if the shooter fails shot placement, or uses improper bullets - will surely be LESS effective than a well aimed/loaded 243.

No doubt, deer die quickly - when hit well w/any decent bullet.

I used to always shoot lungs, but the last 2 were drilled thru shoulders, quartered this buck this morning after gutted/skinned last night.

Meat loss minimal. This 95 BT is my #1 choice for deer, throw hogs in the mix and a Barnes might edge out, not that the 95 won't kill any hog.

I do want to try the 80 TTSX I bought not long ago...we will see if I get an opportunity this year.

I want to bust one w/my 41 magnum...

65BR,

I suspect the big difference between Eileen's and JW's experience on deer with the .243 is better bullets. She is a very good--and just as important, careful--shot, but she also firmly believes in using premium bullets. In recent years she's also become quite fond of the high shoulder/spine shot on whitetails in thicket cover.

The load in this instance was a 100-grain Nosler Partition and 41.0 grains of H4350. This was NOT a carefully worked-up load, but something I threw together when she decided to use the Husky this fall. It's worked in a bunch of .243's, and when she sighted-in, three 3-shot groups averaged around 3/4".

But we never did chronograph it. I know it's impossible to shoot a deer without knowing exactly how fast the bullet is going, but there it is. My guess, based on some experience, is the muzzle velocity is around 2900 fps, which is close enough for Eileen's hunting since she almost never shoots at big game past 300 yards, and prefers getting even closer. (Not the she isn't capable of shooting farther. I've seen her whack a dozen prairie dogs in a row past 300, and kill pronghorn to 450. But she just doesn't like to shoot a long way on deer, and sees no reason to.)

Anyway, she shot this buck at 136 yards, as he quartered toward her while watching a hot doe. The bullet landed high on the near shoulder, then went through the spine and rear edge of the far shoulder blade, exiting. And that was that.

+1, agree 100% sir.

BOTH my kills this year I was going to do that, but these bucks were moving quick and in lieu of that, aimed for a larger area so as not to miss/wound as I had to shoot very fast - both were about to cross a narrow opening into thick woods.

Your load, but IMR, is what I downed a little buck in Tensas Refuge in NE La hardwood bottoms years ago - go figure, that was my 2nd deer, used a 243/M8 6x36....sometimes we make a full circle, this deer too was taken w/a 5.9x

I never clocked mine, figured I'd let the deer do that and decide if it was quick enough out the muzzle to die

That shot is perfect - as you two know - I have used it, and many others inc. neck, lungs, shoulders - all worked, MOST all piled up w/in 60 yds, usually 40, and a few inc. CNS hits that obviously were DRT. My 243/100PT buck I killed made it 30 yds w/ double lung shot - killed just as quick as a larger round no doubt.

Deer just don't worry about WHAT they get hit with - they just can't figure why they start blacking out from blood pressure loss, etc.

Tell your wife I said, she did JUST FINE! A Husky is a nice action BTW.

Merry Christmas to you both JB.

Thanks! I'll pass on the word.

We also have some 95 BT's loaded up, and are going to try the 90-grain E-Tips as well, since Eileen has had great luck with them in the .240 Weatherby.

That is a heck of a Buck Eileen shot.look to have good mass and very clever of you to take a smaller one.

Can you explain the exact aim point for this shot?

The antlers are over 5" at the bases, and carry the mass up high as well. Since it's a 4x4 (8-point eastern count) it wouldn't score all that great, but we long ago quit caring about that. I have a similar heavy mule deer on the wall that isn't very wide and lacks the front fork on the left antler--but everybody who sees him says "Wow!"

I have learned a lot about my trophy selection when hunting with her over the past 25 years. Plus, I'm not as crazy about taxidermy bills as I used to be! The only thing I took our taxidermists this year was a sage grouse....

Huntz, I agree.

And I bet JB learned that saying 'Yes Dear' long ago, which goes a long way, towards a long marriage. Maybe I will find one that will make me say those 2 magic words - often! Lol.

JB - seriously, do you have an article or can write one on Shot placement and anatomy of America's Favorite big game species?

Like 28 - I'd gladly like to know PRECISELY where to thread my next rifle shot - as I love seeing them DRT when I have time to do it.

Curious JB on what your experience has been and witnessed - heart shots, what is a typical reaction when deer are hit there...I have heard stories that defy logic - as in running a long way but skeptic to 2nd hand stories, but am open to facts.

Thanks sir.

I just did a piece for GUNS on where to shoot big game, but the aiming point for the shoulder/spine shot is 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up the body, in line with the front leg. I tend to hold for a hit closer to 3/4 of the way up.

In my experience, heart-shot deer tend to go further than lung-shot deer, though obviously there'll be some variation. The absolute quickest non-shoulder shot in my experience is one that goes through the big blood vessels on top of the heart, or just above it, plus both lungs. A more violent bullet also helps on this shot, putting them down a little more quickly, but there will always be some variation.

A high lung shot just under the spine will often put them down right there, probably due to the bullet coming so close to the spine. They'll usually die from the lung shot before recovering from the temporary paralysis, but I have seen them raise their heads before they do, and sometimes even stand up.

Congrats 65BR. Hope yall don't mind me sharing a pic here
along this theme? My daughter with her deer from this weekend.
Her second this year with 100 NP from her 6mm Rem, H4831sc for a mv of 2980. Old red pad tang safety M77 I got when I was her age.
Both bang/flops, the first 140 yards, this one 65.
Both in the last few minutes of shooting light.
Exit in the picture. I told her in all honesty, it is making
me ashamed to shoot deer with the big stuff I've been using,
when hers works so well

I wouldn't hesitate to hunt deer with a .243 if, for some reason, I couldn't use one of my .223's.

A friend of mine switched to a 270 a few years ago and guess what? He actually stopped wounding and loosing deer.

So, he was using a 243 right? No, actually a 300 Win Mag. Point being, he could actually shoot the 270 and hit something consistently with it. Deer die just fine if hit properly with a 223 or 243, and limp off wounded just as well if you gut shoot them with a 338 Win Mag.

AKA, the " go get the truck shot ".

It's a killer.






I had to track my deer about 3 feet this year because it slid downhill in the wet leaves.

I have been studying shot placement and bullet wound channels in whitetail deer for many years, as we kill about 350 to 400 whitetails a year here on the ranch, with our MLB permit,the high shoulder shot MULE DEER, speaks of is the right shot placement on a whitetail every time, the heart shot to many times turnes into a gut shot if you are a little back in shot placement, i also look at a few hundred pigs a year and study shot placement and bullet damage from different calibers. on deer and pigs,put the 243 in the right place and you won't have to go looking for a critter, it will go about 3 ft. down.rio7

The .243 is indeed VERY deadly on whitetail deer (or any animal of 400 pounds and under). T say other wise is foolish (too many deer have died after being shot with a .22 LR to think otherwise).

As has been pointed out, bullet placement is important no matter what caliber rifle is being used, but it is especially important with small caliber weapons. This is NOT, as some believe, due to a lack of "killing " power or penetration (although larger rounds DO have a definite advantage on "marginal", raking shots), but because of the smaller (or non-existant) exit holes that result from a small bore bullet.

If an animal runs after being hit (and sooner or later it WILL happen no matter what round is used), a good blood trail can be critical to "find" the deer. It will likely be jusrt as dead, but if you can't find it......that doesn't matter. In the thickets of the south and Pacific northwest are unbelievably dense.

Those who have not hunted these areas just can't fully understand. When I've traveled to the northeast (Pennsylvania, Upper State New York, Vermont)....what those who hunt in those areas consider really "thick" stuff......is considered fairly "open" woods in the Deep South. Most of the midwest and western states are even more open. In the REAL thickets I hunt, an animal that travels even 30-50 yards will be out of sight after one jump and may be "lost" without a blood trail to follow.

Deadly as they can be, the small bore (.22,.24 and .25 caliber) rifles just can't be depended on to leave an adiquite blood trail.....every time.

I know....some will respond with an "I remember the time" story about a GREAT blood trail with a .243, but one-time (or a few) instances do NOT make a round "dependable" in this regard.

The "solution" is to not allow the deer to run at all....the so talked about DRT shot. This is best achieved with a shot to the central nervous systen or the "high shoulder" shot that breaks down the animal....in other words, PRECICE shot placement. While this shot may be desirable with ANY catridge, it is CRITCAL with the small bore rifles.

Even with the most careful shot placement, sooner or later, something will go wrong and a deer WILL run after the shot. That's why many (me included) do NOT recomend the small bore rifles for general. It is a specialist weapon that requires one accept it's limitations and be prepared for an occational tough tracking job if you hunt the thickest places.

I still "like" the small bores and use them from time to time, but I also accept their limits and can't accept that any of the small bore rifles (with the possible exception of the .25-06 and .257 Weatherby) are proper "general" whitetail rifles.

everyone is an eggspert. why I am sure one day when I kill a deer I will understand some of this stuff. I may have got it "small headstamp calibers need not apply". Lets watch those head stamps and pay no attention once again to the bullets.

Some nice deer taken with "inadequate" .243.


I am running the 95 grain Nosler BT with 41 grains of H4350 @ 2954fps out of my Tikka .243.

All I need now is to get a deer to cooperate and be a test subject.

I've had several deer/243 meetings and everytime, the 243 won...quick and without drama. Must be lucky

the only place you will find drama is here, sometimes I feel like I am watching that old movie "being there".

I went out today to load some .243 ammo and I have 90 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips and 95 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips.Is the 95 Gr. Ballistic a heavier constructed bullet than the 90 gr. bullet.They both have a purple tip. Thanks

Shoot a 95gr NBT, 100gr NPT, 85gr TSX or 80gr TTSX and you'll get your exits.

Aye.

Jeff - smile says it all - great pic thanks for sharing, she did great and wonderful daughter you have sir. Nice to see the ladies get field time too

I question the pairing of 'Small bore' and CRITICAL shot placement. Shot placement IMHO should be the same regardless of round, as whatever bullet you shoot on deer should do the same in a 223 or 338, get to the vitals and result in a kill.

My deer had it been shot w/a proper deer bullet in a 223 would have died all the same. Granted, wound channels can be narrower, but if you are hitting vitals, the result is death.

I also FIRMLY believe, that todays better bullets, results in performance of say 22 and 24 bores, killing as if they are larger rounds the next size or two up. Optimum expansion w/good retention and penetration are key, to proper bullets.

Consider this:

Shot a hog, 243/85 XBT, 240 yds, recovered, weighs 85 gr.

Shot a Mulie 270/150 Partition 275 yds, weighs 88 gr.

Granted the 270 cut a wider swath, and it shed alot of bullet going from stem to stern.

Yet in each case, death was quick. Hog - DRT, Mulie - perhaps 40 yds.

SO point is, when you recover a say mono that weighs MOST of what it did before the shot, and compare that to a larger bullet that ends up nearly half, I truly feel the advantage of more initial mass and caliber is offset to a noticeable degree by smaller bullets in mono form.

I'm still waiting for the cartridge/caliber/bullet that kills 'em dead with BAD shot placement. Haven't seen it yet....

After whacking the nice whitetail with the .243, Eileen asked me if it would work on elk. I said, "If you put the bullet in the right place." She looked a little hesitant until I added, "And when have you EVER shot an elk in the wrong place?"

She won't shoot until everything's just right, unlike some men.

Congrats! Envious that you are still hunting. When does your season start?!

I can VERIFY, or ATTEST to the thickets of the Deep South.

Unless you have hunted a RE-GROWTH cutover, you have no idea how hard it CAN be to find a DEAD DEER, laying where he was shot, MUCH LESS even trying to FIND a blood trail.

When it's HARD to find a whole deer laying on the ground, HOW HARD do you think it is to find a blood trail.

THIS IS WHY I almost DEMAND 2 holes. They are not a guarantee of a blood trail but it puts the odds in your favor.

I am NOT being smart. If you haven't been here and done it, you are NOT QUALIFIED to pontificate small holes and no blood trails.
You honestly don't understand.

Jerry

If bowhunters can do it, so can you.

I've heard guys make the same argument about elk rifles, and yet they still go bowhunting every year.

Sometimes I think rifle hunters get a little sense of "bloodtrail entitlement" and expect that the ideal load should ALWAYS leave a blood trail that can casually be followed at a fast walk.

I don't think any cartridge or load should be written off because it may require some good 'ol fashioned tracking skills.

bellydeep - bow hunters DON'T hunt re-growth cutovers.

Let me TRY to give you a verbal pic. Sagegrass, briars waist hi, hardwood re-growth up to 10-12 ft. hi, pine saplings 8-12 ft. hi.

Sat. morning I was in a stand ON A HILLTOP looking 360 deg. A HORSE could have walked across the side of the hill I was on and I could not have seen it.

From my stand, there are openings, spots, & I can see INTO hillsides N, W, & E of me. There are plenty of places to shoot a deer. Going to find it is SOMETHING ELSE.

I am being as nice as I can be. Actually I RE-WORDED this.

You DON'T UNDERSTAND ! !

Jerry

I am sure this shot is a killer as explained.I don't hunt the deep south or real thick cover areas much. If I was worried about getting the biggest blood trail I'd use my 35 Whelen in that terrain. I hunt more open areas cause that is what is availible to me for deer hunting. Look at the red dot location and move 3" to the right and 3-4" down and that is the aiming point I most frequently use. It will do both lungs and break the off frt leg exiting. I have found that the 100 gr Horn SP to be very effective and nearly allways exiting and leaving a good blood trail to follow to a dead deer or antelope inside of 40 yds. I believe the 100 Horn SP gives better damage than either the 100gr or 95 gr NPT yet about allways exits leaving a 1+" exit hole.I don't have a problem with either Nosler but sure like the results from the 100gr Horn SP at the same velocity. just my 2 cts worth. Magnum man

jwall- You give an exact discription of the place I hunt. If its been mechanically replanted, the cornrows make it even more difficult to find your deer. If you walk between the trees, you won't see it 'till you step on it. If you walk across the rows, it one step up, next step down. Up,down,up, down, trying to keep your balance while looking ahead. I use an old G.I. compass to take a reading to where the deer was when I shot so I don't lose my way walking in that mess.

having looked at comments on the 243 and shot placement and damage caused by any number of bullets large and small, exit wounds virses no exit wound,tracking in heavy cover ect. i find it intresting that in my experince, most hunters that make bad shots that wound critters including deer,the shot was made in a hurry without thinking about it and making a careful delibert shot, low light morning or evening results in a lot of wounded critters, as for tracking skills most people that hunt and have hunted for a long time dont know how to track.and couldnt find an deer with a huge exit wound in 3 ft of snow. heavy cover is a problem no matter what state you live in, the answers to all these problems, we have seen many times here on the fire, " do your hunting and tracking before you pull the trigger" there are many kinds of wounded only one kind of dead" all the reasons above are why we keep 2 damn good tracking dogs, and rarely lose a critter. rio7

Jerry I hunt cut overs in Georgia and have been finding shot deer for many years. My opinion has changed over the years as I have watched how bullets have changed. I also think as you get older you graduate from more power to finesse. A mono metal bullet is more likely than not going to go slap thru a simple WT deer from even a 223 on the other hand I have seen several deer stop cup and core bullets from a 30-06 and leave no blood trail. Like the old(er) man in a gun shop told me once as I was fondling a 45-70 for deer hunting "son your going the wrong way".

Reckon that's also why the 6.5x55 is so popular too.

Dogger you are a smart man!!! Hard to beat these two you listed!! IN fact you cannot beat them.
David

Here is a picture of my son taken last year with a LARGE deer he took with his 6mm Remington shooting 90 gr. Nosler E-tips. It was one shot at 350 yards and this large deer only went about 20 yards and tipped over. The hole on her left shoulder is that wonderful E-tip exiting!!

j p -

nice deer but plain to see there is no blood...

I shot a large doe using the 95gr NBT with my new 243AI a couple weeks ago. Let me say, that I was impressed! 160yds, through the lungs. The deer ran 30 yds and toppled over with a great exit and blood in such a short distance.

I may have found my new favorite deer rifle. I will be trying out some 85gr TSX's when the season is over Jan 7th.

JB - LOL - you picked a great wife, she works hard to be sure not to ever let you down, and to help do her part keeping you fed

Jimmy, if you are talking about my deer, all the blood gushed out when I dressed him - it was obvious there was massive blood loss immediate post shot, wrecking havoc in the plumbing

JW - I too have hunted in the thich stuff, been luck the few deer I ever lost were the result of my not putting a bullet THRU vitals due to a few various reasons ie. shot angle and not compensating for that, etc.

Nice elk about - Noz knows a thing or two on bullets.

Re; the 100 Hornady above, not used on game in 6mm, but have in 6.5 and 7mm. Have nothing but good things to report and heard on several occasions the 100 SP is a very good bullet in 24 bore, would not hesitate to use one.

It may be flawed logic, but I DO like to use bullets that do not have a lead tip, keeps the tip perfect till impact and they always have shot very accurately.

I don't have to wash my hands after handling - kidding, but on the downside can't use Poly tips or mono tips to fill out my deer tags! Lol.

So, still in search of the ideal bullet as JB, until then I will strive w/Less the perfect bullets that are best in class for job at hand and try using PERFECT SHOT PLACEMENT

Remember you can pick a bullet but cannot control what it does after it impacts, yet you CAN PICK where to Place that slug!

Works EVERY TIME when I do it right!

FWIW, being color blind, I don't WANT to worry about how good a blood trail I have, it's NOT a thought, as it's a distraction from doing what I NEED to do in the first place - SHOT PLACEMENT....all else takes care of itself when I do my part.

It's much EASIER to spend the time during the shot cycle to PRECISELY pick a spot and squeeze, then to start tromping around looking for blood etc. Much better return on investment w/time spent - proper aim/squeeze vs. tracking. Just remember, it's REALLY NOT so much WHAT hits them as WHERE it hits them, truly.

That said, things happen and I have trailed a few, some short, a few gave headaches, but thankfully most fairly hit don't get far. YMMV.

About the only downside regarding 243's is the poachers buy up the used ones and it keeps the price jacked up.

JeffO - Thanks Sir.

Sorry I meant to reply sooner - in my area..

Archery
Oct. 1-Jan. 31

Primitive Firearms
(all either-sex except as noted)
Oct. 22-28
Jan. 16-22

Still Hunt
(no dogs allowed)
Oct. 29-Dec. 6
(39 days)

With or Without Dogs
Dec. 7- Jan. 15
(40Days)

Are my eyes completely gone or does this deer look an awful lot like a cow Elk ?

O O S - Re-read the FIRST line of your quote of 6mm above the pic.

LARGE deer and cow elk are NOT contradictions.

Old fashioned 100g powerpoint will do the trick on a red stag every time. Nothing 'small' about a .243.

Nice cow! and congrats to your son.

dogleg bolt and laminate stock in 6mm? Which model rifle was he using? Or is it a custom?

I hope you don't receive a visit from Fish & Wildlife regarding the "Large Deer." That's a cow elk!

Ya Think?

It's gotta be a deer because a .243 would bounce off an elk!

JB,

That deer is a [bleep] PIG! I'd love to bump into a whitetail with bases like that. Tell your wife congrats.


Merry Christmas,
Travis

jb- what is the mauser shown on the deer in the pic of you following the one of eileen's buck?

Travis,

I'll pass the congratulations along!

How'd your season go?

mjbgalt,

That's my custom 6.5x55. The action is an FN Mauser, with a 3-position Gentry safety and Timney trigger. It's got a 21" stainless Lilja barrel installed by Charlie Sisk, and was Cerakoted by Doug Burche. I did the stock many years ago (when the rifle still had it's .270 Winchester factory barrel) from of a Fajen Classic pre-turned blank of medium-fancy "California English."

It weighs exactly 8 pounds with a 2-7x Leupold Compact, and shoots real well!

my custom swede does NOT look that good

what a nice rifle. bet it does a nice job.

thought charlie was not a big fan of building swedes lol

It took some arm-twisting to get him to do the rebarrel job. Very soon in the conversation he said, "John, the ------- dimensions are all over the place!"

With the right brass, they will shoot.. Great looking rifle. As a side note, wife has never had issues with her 243, nor my nephew with a custom Mauser I gave him in 243. Althought mine does not quite look that good.

Happy Holidays

Ya know, my dad (75yoa) sits in a teepee style deer blind and bitches every year how tight it is inside to move around with his A-bolt/.280 Rem. He has a sweet little Ruger M77 carbine in .243 that I keep telling him to load up some good ammo for and try on deer. He refuses stating "It's too light and I don't feel like chasing deer all around the swamp because of a bad hit." I truly think he just doesn't want to betray his beloved .280.

Well, we have eight pages of proof that the .243 is a great Whitetail round. I have one in a Ruger M77 NIB that I bought for my kids for when they are ready to shoot a centerfire. I have so much confidence in it that I am planning on trading it at an upcoming gun show. The boys that I hunt with have terrible luck with that round. We lost another one this season that was shot with the almighty .243. It is becoming a real tradition around here. I know it is a great cartridge but I am having none of it.

Guess I'll have to quote Phil Shoemaker: "Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship."

Substitute .243 for .30-06...

AMEN-MULE DEER.rio7

M D - yes indeed, the 243/6mm s are reliable , deer killers. I would have go thru my records to be accurate, but I've killed several w/both cals.

I know I sound like a broken record about bullets BUT early on in my hand loading I found Hornady bullets to WORK.

Normally I don't shoot heavy for cal bullets but the 100 gr Hornady Ils work dependably & pass thrus are to be expected IME.

For DEER the Hornady 100 grers work so well I don't feel there is a need for a mono bullet.

For mule deer (animals) or larger I can see the monos being better or preferred.

A. Good bullets. B. Shot placement = Dead deer.

Merry Christmas
Jerry

Now that is good stuff right there.

What bullet?
What shot placement?

My daughter's first deer last year shot with a .243 Win factory Remington 100gr Corelokt ran about 20 yds shot through the heart

Boy, that one has been eating good. Ain't he a potbellied little crud? Nice deer and congratulations to the young lady.

Was thinking the same thing myself...

Thanks! He was corn fed

Nice picture

That a DANG NICE BUCK, especially for a FIRST. I assure you my first 'didn't have NO horns'.

Tell her I said, "Congratulations" and many more.
Jerry

I hope that day is soon. You don't know what you've been missing.

Merry Christmas

Muledeer, you mentioned shooting a big buck that doesn't score for crap, but is a real gagger buck. I shot this one a few years ago. He has major cool factor, but only nets 126 B.C. He has 8 scorable points on the passenger side and 2 on the drivers side. He is just short of 31" wide. He was the biggest boddied buck I have ever seen and had a 29" neck. It wasn't even the rut. I was back in the sticks too far in to pack the cape, horns and meat out, so I left the cape. I had a heck of a time finding a cape big enough to fit him for mounting. I bought one out of Northern Canada.

I had him displayed at one of the wild life shows in Salt Lake City. He was on the wall with a lot of truly nice bucks. He was the talk of the show. He is just flat out cool in my book. I have never seen anything like him before or since. Flinch

That buck is a BEAST!

Flinch,

That buck is way cool!

I bet he tasted good too, since it was before the rut.

To tell the truth, these days I'm more interested in a buck like that than a typical deer. What I'd really like to find someday is an OLD forkhorn. I have the skull and antlers from a winter-kiled buck hanging in my garage that would have qualified--not quite 30" wide and well over 5" at the bases.

Flinch, that is neat.

How about a little write up on the whole story?

i thought this was a thread on 243's and 95 grain bt's

i guess i cant read ......maybe i missed something somewwhere

Flinch - that is a great looking buck! Congratulations.

I've seen some out-sized old forked horns here in Washington the past few years. The big 2x2's are untouchable here. Sure are neat bucks. I'd take a big buck like yours in a heartbeat!

Meanwhile, back to the .243 thread...

I agree that is an impressive "trophy" even if it would never come close to a record book score. Surely less of those kind of trophies around than 170 class mule deer bucks.

One of the most unusual and impressive trophies I ever saw was a whitetail buck taken by a friend in the 1980's. This buck had antler bases of 5 3/4", 25" main beams and 14" tines. However that's all it had...main beams and one tine on each side. Just a 4-point, but WHAT a 4-point. Didn't "score" well at all, but everyone who saw it went goggle eyed and started the ohhhh....ahhhh stuff. It was a truely great and unique trophy as is yours.

When I first started hunting, my first several bucks were all killed with the .243 and 100 grain Hornady interlocks. As far as I was concerned, there was nothing better. My sisters, dad and I have used this bullet for 40+ mule deer kills. We only lost one buck. He dropped at the shot and never twitched. When we got over to him across the 300 yard canyon, he was gone. No blood, no nothing. Never found him. I don't know where my dad hit him. My dad is a heck of a shot and I have never seen him miss a deer. It was a real head scratcher.

As far as that big buck tasting good goes, he was the foulest tasting deer I have ever tried to eat. I tried everything to make the meat tolerable. I ended up throwing it away. I notified the DNR about the bad meat and they said, "It happens, just let us know where you are throwing it away, just in case someone calls and complains." I did so and all was well.

I had the same thing happen on a cow elk two years ago. HORRIBLE tasting meat. Again, notified the DNR and all was well when I pitched it. I have only had to do throw away a few animals over many years of hunting, but it happens. Flinch

Flinch,

That's too bad about the meat. I've encountered a few animals that tasted bad for no apparent reason myself, including one muley doe that appeared to be in perfect health.

It's very hard to figure out what went wrong when the animal disappears without leaving any definitive evidence behind!

+1, and I am sure Flinch Sr. did not...Flinch - Lol. Not w/a 243, but at 300 yds...wind or possible brush deflection...

JB would a grazing spine shot do that? Figure maybe a high hold at that range.

Noticed this thread had over 3500 views...shows the controversy over headstamps....

Flinch, you have an impressive track record for sure, and that is a mighty fine buck above - congrats. My first Mulie was the best eating deer I have ever had, killed in Rifle Co...

Thanks BR! Funny you should mention a good eating buck. I helped a fellow campfire member get a 340 bull a couple of years ago near my home. He drew a depredation tag for "any bull" in an area I know well. We looked over a herd of 15 6x6 bulls before he dropped the hammer on one. The unit is a desert area with lots of sagebrush and cedar trees. He gave me part of a backstrap to take home. I was SURE that old bull would be tough and gamey. Out of many dozens of elk and hundreds of deer, moose and antelope, that was the BEST eating piece of meat I have ever had. It was so tender that it melted in your mouth. You just never know.

The cow elk I shot last year was 1.5 years old. I take VERY good care of my meat and am very careful not to get any hair or anything on it when I cut it up. I boned her on the side of the mountain and cooled the meat quick. I trimmed it and froze it the next day. It was so strong and gamey that none of us could eat it.

On another note, I shot a 500+ lb. wild boar a few years ago. Everyone told me to just throw him away, because wild boar, especially that big are NASTY! I hate wasting meat, so I cut a hunk off, went in the house and fried it up. It was delicious! I butchered him up and all the meat was gone in less than 5 months. Everyone loved it. You just gotta love a 12" pork chop on the BBQ. I've never had any that big before or since and he had very little fat on him. Awesome meat!

I've killed a lot of boars and haven't had a bad one yet. Flinch

flinch,im calling B.S. on the 500 # boar, in UTAH? and size of boar ? we have a lot of pigs in south texas, and its rare to find one that heavy, also im very familar, with utah and as far as i know theres no pigs in eastern utah border to border, please enlighten me.rio7

RI07,

Where did Flinch say he killed the boar in Utah?

I live in Montana and have killed a bunch of wild pigs over the years--in places as diverse as California, Missouri, Texas (and not just South Texas) and the Czech Republic.

Ive tried to kill some bores in Utah....

I've killed a few beers in Utah, even back in the day when you had to join a "club" to do it....

Any 500 pounders???

I'll but in for Flinch as Ive seen the pics of the pig in question and know where it was shot. Don't know for certain a weight, but do remember that it completely filled the bed of a Toyota pickup. IIRC the pics of it being loaded were posted here a long time ago. And yes it was shot in Utah, as I looked into going to the same preserve in Box Elder county.

i know there are pigs all over the u.s. as i have seen the map of the spread of pigs thru out the u.s.i have killed pigs in calif. and many southern states and elder county utah is not a big pig hunting area for damn sure, i also remember the days when utah was a boyb state and the only beer you could buy was from a state liquior store, and you had to belong to private club to drink in public, they would sell you coke,7 up and such, you had to bring your on booze.also pigs dont get to 500# without a hell of a food supply,i think some farmer is missing a pig, but then i could be wrong. rio7

Maybe you missed the preserve part of my post. They are not free range, it's a fenced hunting deal.

that explains it.

Flinch - I do recall someone saying the Mulie I killed in Rifle, CO that was so good eating had a good diet, vs. other parts of CO that offer different food supply.

I am not from the West but know things vary depending where...and no hard/fast ABSOLUTE rules on what game may or may not taste well. All we can do is get a clean kill, dress/prepare the meat as best possible, and hope we don't get that oddity where it's almost inedible.

One thing I have noticed, meat consistently seems best when doing it yourself. I am very convinced that at least around here, the 'processors' simply put them all on an assembly line and give you a ration! Lol. As I am unconvinced that many places separate each animal.

I may be very wrong and wish/hope that is the case, but experience - well, I am about done w/paying someone to process MY animal that I ensure has been quickly properly dressed before they receive it, and not ensured I get MY meat that I dropped off.

Ahhh yes Flinch, I fondly remember that Elk-expedition you "guided" me on (out around Saragosa, wasn't it ?) .... but I believe you are once-again exaggerating .... If I recall, there were only 13 big branch-bulls we had to choose from (grin). Folks, Ya' gotta watch that guy, he tends to stretch the truth a little ... which I would never do. ( cough - cough ) ...

These bulls were harassing some local ranchers each evening, eating their rose bushes and stomping around, leaving muddy hoof-prints on their front porches. So, we drove up early in the morning, planning to whack a bull, as they slowly filtered back into the timber to bed. It was colder than a Snowmans butt-cheeks that morning (around 7 degrees out), spitting snow, with a 15-20 mph wind added on top !

Anyway, the drifted snow was really deep ... Here's a photo of Flinch, standing next to my "tasty" 6x6 bull. The bull died standing-up, sinking belly-deep into the snow. We had to excavate him first, just so Flinch could crawl inside and gut him out ... ( I think he was really just trying to get out of the wind) ! Then, without breaking a sweat ... Flinch transported the bull (whole), 1/4 mile up into the wind shadow of the co-operative ranchers haystacks.

I'm thinking that part of the reason this mature bull tasted so-good, was the speed of processing him and how fast he was cooled down. Three of us quickly had him skinned, then Flinch and Chris put on a display with their knives, boning out that elk ... blades flashing in the early morning sunlight, that would have brought tears to the eyes of a Samurai. We would lay the meat cuts briefly on a thin tarp in the snow, to further cool. I was kept busy ferrying nearly-frozen chunks, into the 2 large coolers. When they were done, there was just a pile of white bones left.

... Silver Bullet

Racing has been popular ... since they built the 2nd car. - Richard Petty

Easy there Rio, don't get your nickers in a wad. The one I shot was not a free range boar and I never said it was. The 2,000 acres I shot him on is bordered by a large river (Bear River) on one side and high fence on the other. It is marsh land with a lot of willows and scrub brush. The thick brush makes the pig hunting tough and this was the only one I saw. The pigs do very well in there, due to all the feed. It was just a fun hunt to do over a long winter. The domestic pigs are crossed with Russian bores and get HUGE. Here is just the head. I'm 6"2', if that gives you a little reference to the size.



This is a Texas hunt I did with a couple of fellow campfire members two years ago. That was one day of spot and stock. There are 18 pigs in the truck....and that wasn't all of them.

Flinch,

That Utah hog is, well, a HOG!

I had to throw rocks at the sow to get her away from that piglet Up to that particular date, he was the biggest pig ever killed on the ranch over many years. The guy that owns it was amazed and said, "I have never seen this pig before! He's a HOG!"

I talked to the land owner last year and they had recently killed a 720 lb. hog on the ranch!!! He made mine look dinky. He didn' know that one existed either. Several hunters reported being charged by a giant boar. The hunters told stories that a 700+ monster chased them through the brush with bared tusks. The owner played it off as "exaggeration and hunting stories", until he saw it dead. He had pictures of him in his booth. It was more like a Rhino than a hog.

These hogs don't have big tusks, but what they lack in tusks, they make up for in size and temper, due to the Russian in them. They have had a lot of close calls with hunters. The big hogs get cornered up against the river and come at the hunters. It's a fun "hunt" to say the least. Flinch

Haulin Hogs! Nice pic!

720 is a B E A S T !!!

Shot my last 100 grain BT .243 deer about 30 years ago. (Bullet technology has come a long way since then.) Quartering facing shot to shoulder. The bullet blew apart. In butchering the animal, I found part of the jacket in the spine. That was likely what killed him . After that I switched to 100 grain Partitions when using the .243. Results have been great. Friends who use them report good results with 85 grain TSX. IMO, the .243 is enough gun for deer if one selects bullets and shots. jack

Flinch, it that the outfit outta Corrine? My B-I-L and I are going to be doing the "hunt" this spring. Im just curious.

Jack, don't overlook the fantastic 95 BT, it's my all around pick as if I need something tougher in 6mm, it's going to be a Barnes 80 or 85, as I'd expect it to equal/surpass a Partition in penetration, and weight retention, while leaving a FULL mushroom in front....

All 3 have an OUTSTANDING track record on game...other bullets work well too, but I look at several dimensions of bullet performance:

1) Accuracy

2) Downrange performance = expansion/wt. retention and energy/mv retention due to BC and weight

3) Cost? Yes, it matters - but a few bullets that you use in a season on game is miniscule vs. all other expenses...

No doubt the PT is proven, but the BT seems to give a combo of accuracy, expansion, retention/penetration - to a degree that I can ask for nothing more - inc. how short an animal will travel when hit thru vitals.

Just my choice having seen them go into 1/2" at 200 yds is perhaps giving bias Never recovered any but everything hit dropped in short order.

The rifle is a Ruger MKII and we put a Boyds nutmeg laminate on it for a stock. The stock was also pillar and glass bedded. It really likes those 90 gr. E-tips at 3140 fps.

It was said in fun as elk are part of the deer family, and if a 6mm or 243 can take a "large deer" like this one, a smaller 200 pound animal should not be much trouble.
David

As a young man, the .243 with 100 gr partitions was my primary whitetail rifle. I never found that combo lacking in any way. I got older and had to play with .308s, .280s, .7-08s & .30-06s.

Ken

That be the outfit. Are you working with Todd? He is a great guy and you will have a great time. He has some fabulous exotic sheep and goats on the ranch as well. Bring your check book ;o) Flinch

I'm not sure. My bro in law doing all of it. We are just going after hogs. I'll be using my Taurus Tracker 44 mag.