I used to have a 22/410 Savage 24 that was a fun little gun, but limited in it's capability. Later iterations of Savages had much better chamberings (222/20), but were soooooo ugly it actually kept me from buying one.

Years have passed, and I find myself thinking about the utility of a combination gun to ride around full time. As such, I don't want to spend a King's ransom on a gun that's sure to see a lot of jostling around. I really like the 222/20 pairing, and am lookin' at those ugly duckling Savages, but would consider others in the same price range.

Suggestions?

Experience?

Any made with screw-in chokes?

I haven't seen .222 ammo on a stores shelves for years but a .223/20 ga.with screw in chokes is a gun I would buy. Should we call Savage and suggest?

My first gun was a Savage .22/20ga over-under. Still have it. ~35 yrs old. Great bunny hunting gun.

:::quote::: Later iterations of Savages had much better chamberings (222/20), but were soooooo ugly it actually kept me from buying one.::quote:::

Savage did make some horribly UGLY guns, especially in the 70s/80s. My uncle used a 20/222 M24V for all his deer hunting. Looked like 2 pipes glued together duct taped to a 2x4 with pressed checkering. but it worked really well. Savage did also make some larger versions like 12/30-30 , 223, 308.

Really? In 5 minutes I can have a cart filled with 222 from Academy.

"Combination guns"?

I never bought one of the M24 Savage "itterations" because they were TOO EXPENSIVE and poorly made in my opinion, in cartridges much, much too lacking or "limited!"

I like .22 rimfires for many applications (with many selections of ammo, from CB's to Velocitors), but why didn't Savage offer more 12gauge selections with the .30-30 or .30/06? (screw "ugly" for practical 'function!!' ).

The 'combination guns' I like include the Thompson Center Contender or Encore with the right combination of barrels!

Or the H&R HandiRifles, again with the right combination of barrels.

TWO PROJECTS I'm currently working on involve HandiRifles ..... One is with a .22LR Versa Pack barrel that fits an SB2 receiver (not the weaker SB1 receiver), that I'm adding barrels to in .223 Rem, .30/06, and 12ga. The idea behind this "Versa Quad" is have a minimal platform I can take mice to buffalo, sparrows to geese - if anarchy or a sustained depression forced me or my famm to depend on such a "tool."

Second project is making a 12ga "Survivor" or campgun/truckgun I can pack in bear country. Once the barrel is cut to 19inches and sights soldered on, it will always be packed with slugs powerful enough to kill a grizzly, buckshot for deer, shortie-shells in #7 1/2 or #6 for feathered stuff or small game, but also red meteor flares for signaling in emergencies! In bear country it will be complimented with a .44 or .45C wheelgun.

The M24 Savages have their place, but are VERY LIMITED in their usefulness IMO.

I would go so far as to say I think a .22LR rifle or long-barreled handgun is much more PRACTICAL and USEFUL over the M24 Savages, (assuming a versatile cache of rimfire ammo is kept with it!).

There are some combination guns with screw in chokes made in Italy...over and unders. I had a later production Kreighoff Trumph drilling with Brileys in it, done after market.

I gave a pretty good Italian 12/308 to a good friend, and it took the Win-choke type chokes. It had Sako dovetails on top of the barrels for scope mounting.

I recently sold a deadly accurate Valmet 412 in 12/222 for $1,000.00. It is a bit more than the Savage, but it is about 3 times the gun. I do still like the Savages for their simplicity and function. I had two in 20ga/30-30 that were great meat-getters.

Going to take me a bit to stop chucklin' after that perfect description.

That is funny! But to a ten year old kid it was really cool and it shot a lot of bunnies!

Not only could I live with the one you pictured, I'd like it.


Forgot 'bout the Valmets - thanks.

That pairing, or .223/28 would have me reachin' for my wallet.

I've got one of those Savages 22/410 with a Tenite stock. It's a good rabbit gun, very light if somewhat brittle. I like it because it's ugly, but it doesn't get much use.

Agreed.

The one I'm itchin' for now however is for takin' a bit bigger critters. A quick search is turning up a few of Valmets, which to my eye are pretty nice.

This one works for me, but I agree the old 24's were cool.


Can't think of a more 'practical' gun than a side by side 12 gauge with a 30/30 tube under.

Who makes that shooter Scott?

That is one of the sweetest drillings I ever held in my hands. It is the perfect configuration, too. It has a top tang safety, instead of the Greener side safety, and the rifle can be de-cocked by holding down the cocking lever and pulling the rear trigger, then let up the lever slowly. Sidelock, tang peep sight, nice French walnut, good American chamberings...

Great pictures!!!

Those quail were one of the best meals I've had in the past few years.

J.P Sauer, imported by Charles Daly and made in Prussia.

Sweet rig.

Can't argue with the capability, wouldn't feel right 'bout bouncin' that 'n' around in the cab of truck though.

Weigh a ton?

I believe that'd be the ticket for quail and snipe hunting down here.... always walking up on swine. That's a fine gun.

I hear you though it has rode on the front handles of an ATV in Alaska a time or three so what the hell, they are all meant to be used.

I promise you my truck cost more.

You might want to look at the EAA combo gun 12ga/223 with choke tubes, weaver base at listed & lbs and barrels are adjustable for POI. Bud's has them for $479 right now.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...nut+12+Ga223+Rem.+Combo+wPicatinny+Rail/

If i didn't have a Bernardeli in 12ga/5.6x50R I'd grab one right now. This is a great coyote rig.

I have a Savage 24 that is a .357mag/20 gauge. It is a bit club-like, but it is still an OK camp gun. CP.

I forgot about those. I have one in 12/7X57R that is exceedingly accurate. It takes the same mounts as air rifles and has two triggers, so it is fast to select which barrel you wish. Although crude looking, the metal-to-metal fit is very good, and it works...every time. I got it on Gunbroker a few years ago for $245.00 + shipping & Brady. In my opinion, they are worth the $479.00 price if you need a handy "truck gun".

That Bernardelli combo is one I covet.

I've owned several Savage 24's. My first was a 20/.22 Magnum from the 1960's, with barrels that were actually soldered together, and decent wood. Unfortunately the shotgun barrel shot VERY high.

Many of the later 24's could be somewhat adjusted to get the rifle and shotgun barrels to shoot close to the same place, but I also found they could come out of adjustment.

I always resnted only having one shot gun round as well, so eventually gave up and started spending more money on drillings. Have had up to 3 at a time, but am down to 2 now, one a slightly earlier Daly/Sauer 12x12/.30-30 like Steelheads, but with outside hammers, and the other a Sauer 16x16/6.5x57R with a claw-mounted scope, along with a Krieghoff insert for the right barrel that shoots .22 Long Rifles to point of aim at 50 yards.

Both cost somewhat more than a Savage, but not as much as many people would expect. They work a LOT better than a Savage.

I owned several Savage 24's and was frustrated with their poor quality and shoddy engineering. They just didn't work well. Now, like Mule Deer, I carry a couple of different drillings, which are a lot more money - but you do get what you pay for!

The closest thing I have to what the OP is asking for is this Heym 16 ga over .222. It is a very nice rig and with its aluminum alloy receiver, weighs under 5 lbs with the claw mounted scope removed.

That is way cool! And just about ideal.

^^...what he said...and it weighs 1/2 what the Valmet with scope and mount does.

I just got a md24 20/22 camper special, with the case for 375.00, but havent got to try it yet!

Here you go, JB. You need one.

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265971865

That is a VERY overpriced Heym on Gun Broker! Mine cost less that half that, and is a better model without the sliding barrel selector on the left side, and came with claw mounts ( $700-1000 new) not a clumsy side mount. If you look close you can also see it has a crack at the tang. Pretty optimistic seller IMHO!
Here is a close up of mine for comparison...

The first Tikka I ever owned was a Ithaca Tikka LSA-55 combination gun, 25� 12 gauge full choke shotgun barrel over 24-1/2� 222 cal rifle barrel(with brake). I won it at a Friends of NRA banquet. I had never seen one before that night, and was impressed with the quality and looks, over the Savage combo guns. I was even more impressed with the accuracy of the .222. It's one of the guns I keep close to the front of the safe for quick access when I see a coyote walking along my back fence row.

I always thought Savage missed a big marketing niche by not producing it in stainless with a 45/70 barrel over a 12 guage. They could've called it the "Alaskan Survival" model, suitable for bush pilots and such. It would have been the darling of survivalists everywhere.

Yeah, that would work.

Thanks!

'Nother nominee, and one I'd never heard of.

Pics of my Bernadelli 12ga ove 5.6x50R Mag Leupold VX-II 1x4x20mm

My Savage is the 30-30/20 Gauge combo and I like it, even though it is entirely unregulated. Shotgun slugs hit over a foot and a half lower and to the left from the rifles point of impact.

Maybe now that I have time I will get around to grinding off about half of the stock wood to get it down to fighting weight.

The Valmet/Tikka in any of its multiple incarnations might be the best buy - maybe in one of the more obscure early labels - some were sold as turkey guns. I keep thinking about putting tubes in my own Valmet and then think maybe I'll run across another set of barrels or a complete gun already done.

Such firearms can be snare for the unwary - there are jurisdictions and enforcement people who quite properly regard the firearms as good for taking a variety of game - and sometimes it's not all currently in season locally.

I cut my teeth on a very early production Model 24 22 LR/410, with the button selector on the side of the frame and the barrels soldered together. It has a Williams peep sight on it. I've killed a pile of small game with it since my old man gave it to me when I was about 5 years old or so. I still hunt with it- the last time I was in the woods I was toting it, and bagged three very tasty quail. I also have one in 22 Magnum/410 (also with the soldered barrels and button selector) with a scope on it. It shoots as good if not slightly better than my Anschutz 22 Magnum. At 75 yards it will put three CCI Maxi-Mags into one slightly oblong hole - and that's with a 2.75x scope.

I also have this, and tote it during deer season when I hunt areas that have lots of gray squirrels. It's a 12 guage over 5.6x52R (22 Savage Hi-Power).


Brian.

I have one of the Savage 24V's in 222/20 gauge. Ugly. Yes. Functional. Yes. I use it for calling. The 222 barrel is surprisingly accurate and the 20 gauge with BB shot rolls coyotes pretty effectively. I haven't used it a lot here in Alaska but it got a fair amount of play when I lived in the lower 48.

Mart

Bandit,

Who makes (made) your 12/5.6x52R?

I believe it's something like Ferochi (sp?), a family run place in Italy. They're still in business, but the combo guns they make these days bear little resembance to mine, which was built in the early 70's.

Brian.

I have a Sav Mod 24 Dlx from the 70's in .22 Mag over 3" 20ga. It was my camper gun for about 60,000 mi. A very good gun for coyote calling when sitting alone in a fence row.

My cousin just gave me a Savage 24 410/.22lr and what a fun little gun it is. My grandkids really have fun shooting it. At 25 yards it will put most of the 22lr touching at point of aim and the 410 pattern good also. I'm going to bring home some game with this one

I got a .22 over 20 gage from Mule Deer, thinking that it would be nice for squirrel because you could just use the shotgun barrel as long as you have 300 yards clear behind the squirrel. I've gotten a rabbit with it, but haven't had the time to get back into squirrel hunting.

It is Marocchi, and they are the current makers of the "Valmet" 412 series guns. They interchange with the Valmet 412 series and are pretty good, all-in-all. I have a set of 30-06 o/u barrels of theirs for my Valmet 412S. They made the Tikka Series of the same gun, then Finnclassic, etc. The 12/9,3X74R I killed two buffalo with was a Marocchi/Tikka. I had 12/9,3X74R and 9,3/9,3 barrels, both scoped. It was a great moderately priced Africa set up, and I had the double trigger receiver, not the usual SST.

I wish I had the $$ to buy that one of yours, Bandit. You know I covet it.

Yeah, the newer Savage M24's and the Baikal M94's both have screw ins. I have three combo guns, and I love each one. Savage M24 .223/12GA, Baikal M94 .223/12GA, and a Valmet 412 .30-06/12GA. The Valmet was made in 1981 and has an IM choke. I could probably have a screw in made for it from Briley or one of the other tube/choke makers, but I don't want to goober up a nice set. It came with three barrels, 12GA/12GA, 12GA/.30-06, and .30-06/.30-06. I wish I could find a .375 H&H O/U barrel set, but so far no joy.

I have a Bushnell TR-25 on the Savage, a B&L 1.5x5 scope on the Baikal, a Mini Aimpoint on the Valmet .30-06/12GA, and a Leupold 2.5x8 on the Valmet .30-06/.30-06.

The Savage has a 1/14" twist and will not stabilize anything over 55 grains (including the 53 gr TSX) in the .223, but shoots 55 gr WW ball into 1.5" at 100 yards. I'm working up loads with the 45 gr TSX for deer/hogs, and using reduced loads with 45 gr Hornet bullets and SR 4759 for smaller critters. The Baikal has a faster twist, 1/12", and will shoot M855 and other 60-62 gr bullets fine. I'm using 60 gr Nosler PT's and 53 gr TSX's for larger game, and the same reduced load with 45 gr Hornet bullets for small game. I have also looked into acquiring a chamber adapter or two for .22 LR but the fellow who makes them is hard to communicate with, and hasn't responded to e mails. I'm also working on some 55 gr GC cast bullet loads for small game.

The Valmet shoots just about anything I've tried in either '06 barrel, including a reduced load using a 110 gr RNSP and SR 4759. It actually hits the same POI out to 75 yards as my .30-06 big game hunting load using a 165 gr Nosler BT, and only 2" low at 100. This is out of either the .30-06 O/U or the combo gun.

I'm always on the lookout for combination guns, and really think that they are great general hunting arms.

It's worth looking for a Savage 2400 made in Finland by Valmet and imported by Savage in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They were made in only two flavors, a 12 guage Imp. Mod. barrel over a .308 WCF and the same shotgun barrel over a .222 Rem. I have one of each. Have been using the .222 barreled version for years (coyotes and turkeys mainly) and just got the .308 barreled version from a gentleman in upstate NYS, although I've used one owned by a friend for deer hunting several times.

They are heavier than a M24, MUCH nicer made, more expensive, and take Sako scope rings on an integral dovetail mount. Look much like the later Valmet 412 but don't have the interchangeable barrels and are somewhat lighter. Barrels are a metric odd length about 23 1/2". They use a Czech-designed action first patented in France in 1922, then picked up by Remington in 1932, and used by Kreighoff and Valmet WWII.

Don't have any combo guns(cape or combo), but sure do like the drillings. This one is a circa 1969 Simson 12x12/9.3x74R. Briley choke tubes, and a Zeiss 4x. Great all around hunting gun.

Jeff

Nice stripped pony there AKJeff...

Thanks Bud...how you doin'?

After this stallion was down, the PH radioed for the truck. The landowner(the PH I hunted with last time) brought his little daughter along(she's 4 or 5). She's in her dad's ams when he walks up, and she says "Well done, Jeff!", just like a little PH. Cutest damn thing you'll ever see. She's going to be a hunting fool some day.

Jeff

Is that the one you had in Ketchikan?

Yep!

If you head back up here in the spring, give me a shout. Good chance I'll be working a project down that way by then.

Jeff

I'll be so wrapped up with doing [bleep] on the new house and getting ready for retirement. I do miss it so.

Congrats on the house! That'll definitely occupy your time for a bit. Worth it though. Nothing like having your own place.

Jeff

I have a CZ 584 that finally made me admit I'm a rifle and hunting looney. 7X57R and 12 gauge, with a CZ .22 LR insert for the 12 gauge barrel that shoots to point of aim at 50 yards after a bit of tweaking. The rifle barrel likes to be very cool or it will string pretty badly.

I bought it specifically for one area I hunt where I see both nice deer and odd color phase fox squirrel.

Mesa,
I'm always looking for combo guns. Thanks for the tip.

I too like drillings. The trouble is that they are very hard to find in these parts, and the ones that I have found are in very odd ball caliber/gauge combinations. I handload everything, but some of the choices would be very difficult to find. I did find a Merkel drilling in 12GA/.30-06 which I was lusting after, but with the price north of $8000, it was a bit beyond my budget.

Nice Punda BTW.

I bought a Antonio Zoli 12ga/7x57R about a year ago. I put a 1x4 Burris scope on it that has very long eye relief. Worked up a load with 154gr Hornadys at about 2600fps. If the barrel was cool it would do one inch groups. Shotgun shot to same point of aim as the rifle with Brenneke slugs and had interchangable chokes, the previous owner had them installed, though I found the MOD the best for slug accuracy and general patterning, it has a EXTRA FULL for turkey. I was happy and desided to see if it would work out as hoped.

Black bear and turkey seasons run concurrently in the several areas in Montana so I thought this combo would work out well. Didn't get a turkey but did get a 350lb male bear that squared 6 ft. During antelope season I got no shots at antelope, population down 50% to 90% in the area I like to hunt, depending on who you talk to. I did however pick up a couple of ducks on a praire pond. I was after some sage grouse and ended up with a 7x7 mule deer where I would never have thought a big buck would be hiding. I got three pheasants and two white tail does in one day and a mule deer doe and a white tail doe over a two day period while missing a couple of pheasants. Shots on deer ranged from 75 to 300 yds. All one shot except the buck, I put an insurance round into him even though he was going down from the first shot. All shots were through and through.

The combo has become my #1 gun/rifle. I can hardly waite for spring bear/turkey season.

I've still got it - ended up being able to sell enough other stuff to hold on to it for now.

Brian.

You guys are pissin' me off! All this talk about cool combination guns...I can't afford any new guns right now. Stop it! I mean, don't stop, or...oh, I'm so confused...

Did you buy that off of GunBroker by chance? If so, I remember that gun.

Brian.

I was hoping to take a whitetail with my Valmet combo this year. I usually take a couple of different guns out to use during the season, but I always use my M14SA for the first one. The eight point that I shot was with that, and I didn't see anything afterwards when I went hunting with the Valmet.

Next year I think that I'm going to shift to the Valmet for the first deer, and everything else for the rest. If I can find either a .22LR/20GA or .22Mag/20GA combo, or get the fellow who makes the .223/.22LR inserts to answer his e mail, I will likely try and use combos for both small game and big game.

Did I mention that I REALLY like combo guns?

No, I got it at the Bozeman gun show. Anyway, if I get another combination, which I probably will, I'd LOVE to get a drilling in 20ga/7x57R.(Good luck finding that for less than a good used car price...) If I get another combo it will be a 12ga/9.3x74.

I'm amazed how useful a combo is. The difficult part for most is price. For something that works well in common caliber/gauge combinations expect to a least pay $2000 to get everything squared away, gun, scope mounts, maybe chokes. I did see a very nice drilling, with an excellent scope, in 16ga/8x57R for $3500, so it is possible to get something nice for less than some of the prices on Gunbroker or other web sites.

If you buy something without a scope be aware that it may not be simple or cheap to put a sturdy scope mount on the weapon. Also, all the older guns I've handled have a lot of drop in the stock and will need either a butt pad or a new stock to bring them up to work well with a scope. I use a butt pad that holds 5 rifle rounds on the outside and 6 12ga rounds in the zip pocket, this worked very well for me this last season.

Mesa,

The 2400 was a good comb gun and was much lighter than the later Valmet 412s. I had two of the 12/308 2400 along the way and sold my last one to raise $$ for a Valmet system. I actually wish I had kept the 2400; it was much faster handling and easier carrying. I never did get to try one in 222, but I heard they were tack drivers. This series uses the Sako dovetail mount system.

( two-cool )

I started trading in them at age 13. I mowed lawns for two summers to buy my first drilling, a Sauer 3000 circa 1958 in 16ga and 7X57R. The only rifle ammo available was from Stoeger at that time. I learned all I could about them from anyone who had one or knew about them...made some whopper mistakes, too. I'm not close to wealthy and scratch out a modest living. I did learn enough over 51 years of trading and upgrading drillings and other combo guns to have owned a lot of them, just never many at one time, as I have to sell and trade to move on to other guns I want to fondle for a while. I figure I have tried out somewhere around 200 of various flavors along the way, from Savage 24s to some pretty exotic drilling sets...some with several barrel sets and scopes.

Combination guns push my "hot" button. As a boy I one day took a 5X5 mulie, 6 chuckar and 15 valley quail. I used a Charles Daly sidelock-sidecock 12/12/30-30 similar to Scott's. I was hooked for life.

You must be feeling better, as I noticed that you're bidding on a Sauer & Sohn Dreiling on Gunbroker. Get well soon.

Thanks Bruce! Also got an eland and some sand grouse with it. Really awesome trip. The eland was most satisfying. We tracked and got within range of three different groups over a two week period, walking many miles. Passed as I really wanted an older over the hill bull. Finally found this guy by himself. Full of ticks, and a big hole punched in his skull below his right eye. Think I did him a favor.

Regards,

Jeff

I am bidding on it. I don't really NEED it, but ... well...

I DO TOO NEED IT!!!

( I bid all the gun is worth. If someone wants to over pay, I'll let them have it. )

THAT is a G R E A T old bull eland!

He has a fantastic "brush" and has those worn horns. IMO that guy is the perfect trophy.

None of us NEED any of our gun purchases, at least not after the basic .22/shotgun/big game rifle/defensive handgun buys, but when you gotta have it, you gotta have it. Just glad that you're able to show an interest. Get better soon.

Thank you sir! Definitely one of my most cherished hunts. The other bulls we tracked and I passed on, were all bigger horned, and in prime condition, but I committed myself to finding an over the hill bull. It was worth it. Cepo, the tracker, was truly amazing to watch. It was worth passing on the others, just to get to track another, and watch him do his thing!

This photo is kinda low res, but in the original, you can see the bulge of the 286gr A-Square Dead Tough under the hide at the neck/shoulder junction. It raked through him from about mid rib cage on the other side. Shot from about 40-50 yards. Followed with a solid just behind the last rib, and it stopped just a few inches below the soft.

Regards,

Jeff

cant believe such little talk on this topic about the Baikal IZH94. was imported for about a year by Remington by the model # SPR94 and now imported through EAA and USSG as the MP-94.
I own a 223/12ga and a 308/12ga


Great little gun with a few problems. absolutely the worst recoil pad on the planet and brutal trigger's. spend a little time with one and you will have to have one

Yea, so, compared to my Zoli which has NO recoil pad and that is NOT an issue due to the very well designed stock. Everyone that has fired it was surprised that it had no recoil pad.

My gun weighs in at 9lbs with 7 rounds of 12ga, 5 7x57R cartridges, scope, butt pack and sling. It also had a very nice crisp trigger on both the rifle and shotgun barrels plus a set trigger for the rifle.

It also had regulated barrels that are joined together, not a functional thing. And actually the floating gap barrels on the Baikal are easier to deal with, just not that attractive. Some makers provide a plastic insert to "bridge" the canyon and this would do a lot to improve the Baikal appearance wise.

Would I buy a MP-94/ Baikal? You bet, I hear a lot of nice things about accuracy, and ruggedness, however; I would prefer it in a rimmed cartridge since I'm not to sure how reliable long term these weapons are with rimless extraction. BUT it would never be my first choice unless I felt I could not come up with the cash for a Valmet or an Italian made version of the Valmet. Balance, handling qualities and appearance do count for something. If I found one at a gun show under $500 I'd probably buy it regardless of caliber configuration.

You can buy them new for $515 and free shipping

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/229/products_id/60296

erich

How about one in 12ga and 7X57R with a scope mount?

Here is a better priced Heym similar to the one on Gunbroker at twice the money-
at Martini & Hagn in Canada:

Heym 22 ST . This little combination rifle is 16 Gauge ,22Win Mag . It has 23 1/2 inch barrels , 14 1/4" Length of pull . It has "coin finish " receiver . Manual cocking with rear trigger , very safe set up with also sliding tang safety on stock . Barrel selector . This handy little gun weighs 7 lbs with scope . Overall length 39 " ,. ed . Very handy .claw mounted , NORRIS, fixed four scope , Reticule post and heavy duplex . Slight "low grade" handling marks on stock (a few light scratches but not through the finish ) Overall condition very good . Blueing wood , metal , bore ; very good !

Price 2400 .CAD

Just wanted to say thanks, you guys made this informative, and interesting - 'preciated!

Here is a decent buy on a high quality drilling with some bells & whistles not readily noticed.

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=267498798

It has the bullet trap, an expensive option, and it is set up to shoot rimmed or rimless 8MM ammo. It is a bit higher grade gun, also.

Dang Bruce, that is a high grade gun! Bushed strikers, sideclips, trap, the whole nine yards. Kinda looks like a Kettner, to me? Great chambering, too. While drillings can be spendy, if a guy is patient, and waits for a deal exactly like you pointed out here, you can buy a very high quality gun, for a fairly good price.

Jeff

While that one has some fine work on it I see no scope mounts or a scope for that matter.

The maker is not known?

I would keep shopping.

Claw mounts could be had, installed, for a grand or so. Find a gun like that, with mounts(and a "name") for $3500. Good luck. I like a great deal as much as the next guy...but you have to be realistic.

Jeff

Jeff,

You know these guns well, and recognize just what this gun is. I'll also wager that the bore is .322 or .323, as in "S" bore. The little pin plunger in the extractor is a hint.

Some pretty cagey makers of the better quality guns made them to shoot all flavors of the 8MM round adequately. They used the .321/.322 bore barrels so that one could shoot J bore or S bore ammo. The J bore wasn't quite as accurate, but it shot well enough for the relatively close shots from low or high seats, while the .321/.322 barrels were exceedingly accurate using .323 ammo and had no pressure issues. That little pin plunger made it so one could use rimless ammo; it is the extractor for a rimless case. They are spring loaded and retract for a rimmed case.

Pretty smart, these old craftsmen.

if i dont hit on a combination of meds this winter that help out my knee pain significantly im prolly gonna sell my CJ5 cause at the moment it hurts like hell to run a clutch and finally add a drilling to the safe....

Oh sure, I was thinkin' an under-$500.00 beater, and you guys -- all you drilling guys -- now have me lookin' and learnin' 'bout $3,500 guns!

Damn, that is a fine looking piece, I could live with the 16 gauge chambering, the 8mm however doesn't inspire me all that much.

Got one like it in 7x57/28? >grin<

Bought one from Bud's Gunshop in .223/12GA. It is rugged, and it is accurate, but it took three men and a boy to break it open, and even after using some 800 grit polishing compound, is still very hard to open. Overall I like it, especially for the price I paid, $515, but all in all, I much prefer my Valmet.

It's not a bad affliction, once you embrace and accept it!

Jeff

Thanks in no small part to guys like you, who are willing to share their knowledge on forums like this. This post is a case in point, as I'd not spotted the plunger in the extractor, and wouldn't have known what it was for right off. Thanks for the lesson! Learned something again.

Jeff

That would cost you about double the zukes, maybe triple. A 20ga 7X57R would be at a great premium.

That Baikal of Mike's would work fine for your purposes.

I have to warn you!! Capeguns and drillings are very nearly as addictive as Sharps Rifles.

Mike,

That Leupold on it makes it all look like a flower on a brick.

The two Baikal 94 BBFs I have shot, mine and a friend's, were both spooky accurate for a combo gun. Given the triggers are less than great out of the box, it amazed me. They won't win beauty contests, but they work and are a good choice as a truck gun or a poachers pal.

I don't endorse breaking any game laws.

I agree with the accuracy part. With the open irons and 62 gr Silver Bear it was shooting 2" at 100. I haven't yet finished working up the loads yet, because I put a B&L Shotgun scope on it to see how that worked and haven't had time to shoot the loads with the scope. I'm hoping for great things. It still takes quite a bit of effort to open and close it though, so needs more shooting.

I looked at a nice drilling tonight.

16ga over 7x72r
Exposed hammers, cartridge trap, nice wood, beautiful scroll work.

Damn........

Madmooner, how much was it? I bet you would have to give up your 1st born for a nice gun like that

Actually, not too bad in my uninformed opinion.

$2799.00

wow, someday I hope I could drop that on a nice gun, right now stuck with a few hundred bucks at best for my toys

It was German. Just looked at it in the case, no one around to get it out for me and I was in a hurry.

7x72 was a new one on me as well. I'll have to look and see if some one makes brass for it.

Price: $2495

LINK

Mooner, that is about twice too much for a hammer drilling in a very obsolete rifle round. It was no doubt a very high grade gun, but the 65mm chambers and 7X72R rifle knock the value considerably.

Here are two that are worth the asking prices.

www.gunsinternational.com/SIMSON-DRILLING.cfm?gun_id=100087948

The Simson will probably have AKAH claw bases, and AKAH still makes rings; they'll still need hand fitting and rust bluing.


www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=268485310

THIS WAS A STEAL!!! I can't believe it didn't sell. The gun is easily worth $5,000-$5,500.

Thanks for the heads up!

I had never heard of 7x72r. Figured it was an odd ball!

Is it reasonable to lengthen the chambers to the more standard 2 3/4"?
I see some really neat old shotguns that have the short 2 9/16 or 65mm chambers. Are they hand load only or does some one make shells for the short chambers?

Thanks again!

Yes, that is a very nice drilling. I wonder if they've posted it again?

Mooner,

Some drillings can be lengthened, and some can't. Many can't due to the way drillings are made. The barrels are struck down as far as practicable, usually, to save weight. Most other things about the drillings are the same. Accordingly drillings are not as strong a gun as a simple SXS shotgun or double rifle. They were made for the typical German hunt...shoot one or two rifle rounds and maybe the shotgun once or twice. The shotgun loads were milder, also.

That being said, you can buy 2 1/2" shells for the older guns from Gamebore. I don't recommend that you shoot 2 3/4" mild loads in the 65mm chambers, but I do all the time and have for 51 years. I also have a stash of old paper hull shells with felt wads that are easier on the very tight chokes these guns have.

The best solution is to get an early post-war gun like JBs sweet little Sauer 16/16/6.5X57R. They have all the pre-war craftsmanship but with the more modern steels and chamberings. Many of the later pre-war guns had 2 3/4" chambers, but most were still 65mm. The 12/12/9,3X74R Sauer I am getting might be either. These guns will usually re-chamber OK to 2 3/4".

I have a second solution that works well. I have a long forcing cone reamer for 16ga. It doesn't give a 2 3/4" (70mm) chamber, but it sure relieves the chamber pressure, lessens recoil, and actually improves patterns most of the time.

That 7X72R would be no problem to load for, and it is about on par with the old 303 Savage. You simply size 9,3X72R brass down and load 139-140gr bullets with 28 or 29 gr of IMR 4198. I owned a plane-Jane snap action drilling in the round years ago and took an old dry mulie doe with it.

It is an absolute steal at the price. I have the regular Sauer 3000 version of it with a 6X Nickel Supra in Suhler mounts. This gun has the "Colt" collectors' added value/interest. They had less expensive blade front sights and no cheek piece like the Sauer 3000 had, and they had recoil pads and game scene engraving. My model Sauer is the simpler scroll engraving. Sauer 3000s like mine are now selling for between $4,400 and $5,000 with the Lux game scene ones going for $5,000-$5,500, scoped properly.

The 243 versions are about 10% less, I've noticed.

I had the big beavertail forend wood slimmed to a substantial splinter by a very good wood guy that did Lee LeBas' work. Now it looks like a "proper" drilling.

I'm learnin' a lot - to include the drilling$ are expen$ive.

I do have two offers pending on combination guns. Even found a couple Valmets, but chambered in .22 HP, which I don't really want too bad.

Spotted a few 28 gauge drillings, but you have to be kidding - $60,000.00. pffft I'm afraid it -- yeah, the gun -- would divorce me. >grin<

Hey! Listen to me...buy the 28ga drilling.

It would be win-win. You would have a unique drilling and a lot more time to hunt.

...also...call them "investments"...it hurts less if you get that mindset.

Here is a real sleeper. If I had any need for it I would offer $1,350.00, shipped and see what happens.

www.gunsinternational.com/FRANZ-NEUBER-SXS-CAPE-GUN.cfm?gun_id=100211516

I too like the idea of a drilling or combo gun. If I did it, though, I'd want one of the guns that have provision for a scope mount, even if it required new claw mounts to be made for it.

And edit to add, has anyone ever tried loading shot in a slow twist muzzleloader? I wonder if that approach would provide decent patterns.

depends.....been watching drillings on gunbroker for years.....from what i see you could prolly find a decent serviceable rig for $1700 give or take depending on the day $2000 for sure, looked over some in person i stumbled across fo $1200 and am still kicking myself i didnt have the funds....aint hard to get in that territory from $1200 to $2000 after sending a NIB bolt gun to a smith to get slicked up and put a real nice scope on it.....

are they cheap? hell no but i would think the average guy that really wants one shouldnt have that hard of a time figuring out how to get one in his hands, especially if he is happy with hunting grade....

You've got it rattler. Just takes patience, and educate yourself as much as possible before you take the plunge.

When you consider the cost of a good continental SxS shotgun, and a single shot rifle separately, which is basically what you're getting, the price of a drilling isn't that bad. Granted, both are compromises, the shotgun isn't going to be a lively 6 or 6-/12 pound gun, and the rifle is generally good for only 2-3 shots in a row, before it starts to walk off target, but a guy should have his knife out by then anyway.

Not everyone's cup of tea, but if it is, they are very satisfying to hunt with.

Jeff

I've got my old buscheflinte

Y E S !! AND I W A N T IT!!!

You should buy that cape gun on GI and send me yours.

Look at Jim getting all Teutonic on us!

That gun's a keeper.

Jeff

BWAHAHAHAHA

Has anyone on here ever seen a Weatherby imported JP Sauer 3000 drilling ?

Ok, I expect some flack on this. I admit this is probably a "white-trash" cape gun, but I think it will actually worked out pretty well for its intended purpose, short range bear and turkey gun and camp gun.

I had a cheap double barrel shotgun, a Stoeger Coach gun,anyway. Didn't use it all that much, handled nice though, but always seemed to miss with the left barrel. So, at a gun show some guy is selling a Tanfoglio 45-70 insert that fits a 20 inch barrel, which is the length of my coach gun. I buy it, take it home and it fits! I taped some iron sights on the gun and went out to the range, it didn't blow up and the bullets all went in the same direction.

I had the sights permanently mounted, looks good, they were XS or OX or whatever peep system I had from a 45-70 lever gun. After about 50 rounds of messing around, and I mean getting really creative, I now have a "cape gun" that will hold a 3 to 4 inch group with the left barrel 45-70 insert and a combined 6 inch group with Brenneke slugs out of the right. Granted this is at 50yds, which is fine, it's actually very impressive at 25yds. Some reloading might tweek the group size down a bit.

Interesting note: The left barrel shot 18 inches plus to the left of the right barrel! (So now I have a valid BS excuse for all the left barrel missed shots as noted above.) By moving the barrel insert around considerably I was able to "regulate" it with the right.

OK, I nominate this as the cheapest home made combination gun. Now whether I actually kill anything other than a few camp pests with it remains to be seen. It now lives in my hunting/fishing trailer. My wife loves it as bear repellant, put a plastic slug in the right side, and if the bear doesn't move off, the left barrel will make an impression.

Here is my Simson 12X12 7X65R w/Nickel 56mm Fixed 8 power Scope. I have a Krieghoff 22mag insert barrel also.

It sounds like a fun gun and useful.

Nice drilling! 12ga and 7X65R is a great combination.

I see Savage is offering a model 42, in 22LR (or 22 WMR), over 410.

Black synthetic, and uninspiring (to me) in both looks, and chambering.

I can't wait to put a lower power scope on it. Too bad the Kahles fixed 6 I have on my No. 1 wont fit.