Folks
I read the post on "Does unused rifle brass ever go bad".
Well yeah sometimes it does. Many times it does. Exposed to the right(wrong) enviroment it always goes bad....corrosion, splitting, etc.
I have been working and have nearly perfected a solution. I cant give details now as I'm wraping up the legal side of this. Test are showing how corrosion is held at bay. Several other benefits if anyone is interested.
As soon as the legal side is handled, I'll give a full report.
Charlie

Sounds great! I'd love to hear what you've found.

Looking forward to that report Mr. Sisk.

Hoping it makes you Rick Jamison rich too!

I'm very interested to read what you've learned also.

One more thing to lie awake and worry about.........

Very interesting - looking forward to it.

My solution is to just shoot more !

Seriously Charlie; looking forward to hearing what you have.

Yes, I'm interested too

Thot I had my brass supply taken care of tho. Please don't mess up my inventory.

jwall
It will just make your supply better. Also seems that cases stretch a lot less, requiring less trimming.
Charlie

Mr. Sisk - Sorry I've been tied up.

That sounds fantastic. I'll be waiting & watching for your update.

I'd like to hear about it also

Sounds very interesting Charlie.
Will your process stop my car from rusting?

Jerry

Caneslinger
Next project on my to-do list.
Charlie

I clean in a vibratory device for 2-3 hours.
Lube, resize, and deprime
Back in the vibratory cleaner for an hour or so.
Check primer pockets and flash holes
Load

No anneal?

I was wondering about that as well, found some 45 Colt brass sitting in the drawer for 40 years and loaded it for a friend had one split case out of first 10.

Yep, that'll happen with brass that's been lying around for a while. In fact I've encountered older factory ammo, both commercial and military, where some necks were split already, just from "aging"--and more split when pulling the bullets. Cleaning in a "vibratory device" doesn't solve that problem....

The original post was from 11 years ago. What was Charlie's super secret solution to brass "going bad."?

He's still waiting on his lawyers.

Ah crap was hoping to find out how to keep my large
brass supply in great condition. I do periodically find a blue green spot on new brass. I have wondered about age hardening.
Do you typically anneal new brass that has been around a while?
I have new brass thats 1 year to 20 years old. I have never had a issue loading the older new cases

Most of my "new" (unfired) brass - pistols through rifles - is pushing 40. Also have a fair amount of '06 ball from the '50s through '60s. Nothing has given any indication of even reduced case life. One batch of RA '54 has been loaded with 54-56 gr IMR 4350 and 180s....several times....and still looks fine. Dad's WBY .300 brass ('60s) keeps going and going and going. Well over ten firings on some now.

OTOH, have some very old brass and factory loads for WW levergun rounds. .35, .405, .38-72, .40-72, etc. Some is indeed clearly deteriorated. Though I don't know how it was kept prior to the mid-'80s.

Must be some causal or predictive variables not mentioned.

Another interesting topic, and hoping for more info.

I have some LC 69 .308 match brass I obtained in 1970 that I am still reloading for my Model 88. Annealed several times. No problems

There were some tests conducted many years ago (1958 or prior,) at the Frankford Arsenal. I still have the "Shooter's Bible" where it was published. Haven't read it in years, but what they did was to take new brass, one group sample kept indoors in controlled conditions and not exposed to ambient air. The other of the same batch was put on the roof of the arsenal. After a long period of time the new brass exposed to ambient conditions, was cracked and corroded. The admonition of the article was to keep your brass in Ziploc bags, or at least out of ambient air where pollutants exist.

Those guys will be late to their own funerals; lawyers never get in a hurry.

Simple things aren’t simple when lawyers chime in. They can crater a one car funeral.

But, I do like lawyers, some at least. SIL is one.

DF

I was given a few boxes of factory 303 British a while ago. Out of 40 rounds, 7 had split necks. No idea how old they were, or how they had been stored. I pulled the bullets and used the powder for fertilizer. The brass went into the trash.

I just fired some brass from the late 60's, early 70's that was still factory primed. I guess I got lucky, as some of it is older than I am..



Oh, and old as hell ballistic tips as well. Had to burn some of those up, as we know they explode on deer:

At least they held together for 100 yards to actually punch some paper.

I have a stash of FA-33 (Frankford Arsenal 1933) .30-06 brass that I keep in regular rotation for cast bullet loads, as well as a metric sh*t ton of FA and Lake City Match brass from the 50's-60's for cast and jacketed loads. Occasional annealing keeps it soldiering on. It's been in recent memory since I finally scrapped some 1911-vintage .30-40 brass that I had messed with off-and-on over the last 50 years. (If you mess with truly old brass from the turn of the last century, make doubly sure it wasn't initially loaded with mercuric primers. That priming compound was murderous on brass, later chlorate corrosive priming was tough on barrel steel but harmless to brass. Post-1903 gov't ammo is pretty safe in that regard.)

New rolls of copper unroll easily, let it set for a few years and try it. I’m sure brass naturally hardens over time too, causing splits. The same roll of hardened copper will be soft it it’s annealed in a fire.

Does case aging imply the lifetime supplies of bullets we stockpile won't age well either? Will expansion change due to brittleness?

Love that brass! Loaded up on 270, 06 and some 300 mag years ago. Got some 338 from you awhile back and it’ll be used on elk this fall. They made good brass back then didn’t they?

I’ve never heard of metal going bad assuming that it isn’t exposed to corrosives. Maybe it can but if it does it’s news to me.

"Winchester" brass is no longer made by Olin, parent company of Winchester ammunition and components. About 3 years ago, the Olin brass plant in East Alton, IL became Wieland Brass, when the brass division was spun off. Olin Brass and Wieland merged, so they still have the rights to the Winchester and W-W names for now and some time in the future. That will probably be renewed when it does expire, to keep appearances up.

It's not been good for the employees, or the product.

I dealt with the plant when it was Olin, and now as Wieland. Night and day difference.

"Winchester" brass is produced for one time use, factory ammo applications. It works fine for that.

I have used some very old brass (40-50 years old) and had about half of the necks split on the first firing in a 257 Roberts, that's the only time I've tried it.

40-50 year old brass isn't "old", and begs the question "did you anneal the case necks first?"

Drive around Minnesota. You’ll see where metal has gone bad.

I keep my brass where temperature and humidity is controlled. Temperature is at about 70 degrees and humidity at a maximum of 30%.

I had a 30-06 case with a split neck on an old military cases at a recent cast bullet match. Time to anneal. I’d anneal more often if I spent money on one of those new-fangled annealing machines instead of rifles, primers, powder and bullets.

(yawn)

Well, THAT was a waste of time!

i have 30-40 Krag that is around 70+/- years old and it is still going fine. yes, i anneal it after 5 or 6 firings. i also wet tumble it (SS pins, drop or two of Dawn and a 9mm cartridge of Lemi-shine). the 30-40 krag's brass were sitting in box until i got them (10 or 12 years ago). the first thing i did is anneal them. next is FL die with lube spray on the cases (lanolin mixed with 99% isopropyl alcohol). next stop is the HF wet tumber and 2 to 3 hours later the cases are taken out, put them on dry towel and the next day (or two) they are dry. them i trim them and debur and then they are put into Ziploc 1 gallon bag until i reload them.

a few years ago, i got mixed bag of about 100+ 7x57 cases that i did not anneal and i put them thru FL die and i cracked the necks on about 10 or 12 cases. lesson learned. anneal everything!!!

i have brass that is 30 - 50+/- years old and besides 9 or 10 cracks on all of them, they are good. my dad (RIP) had about 100 cartridges(20 per box) of Federal 7-30 Waters in 139gr FN and we found that after he shot them (TC Contender), 3 or 4 of cases the necks were split. we put it off to bad brass because they were new.

i've done annealing on the '06 reformed cases in 6.55 Swede, 7x57, 8x57, 9.3x57, 7.65x55 Argie, 270 Win and others. i done annealing 30-30 reformed cases in 35/30-30, 357 Herrett and 30 Herrett as well as the 221 Rem Fireball to the 20 Vartarg.

In my much younger years (mid-late 1970s) I owned a first or second year Winchester 70 in .375 H&H .. mid 600 (that's 3 digits) serial number. It came with a bunch of old factory ammo, WW and RP. That stuff would reliably split the cases. They were different splits than I've ever seen. The splits would be lengthwise with the case, 4 of them at about 90 degree intervals, and be about 1/2 to 3/4ths of an inch long just ahead of the web. I suppose annealing would help but the idea of annealing that close to the case head doesn't sound like a very wise move.

That takes me back. Especially the Super X. Dad would only carry the '06 180 gr Super X Silver Tip if he (or anyone else in the party) had an elk tag.

Yes, the ballistic tips too., only not nearly as far back. I switched to the 30 cal 165 gr iNBT in my 30-06 as soon as they hit the shelves.

I have recently been surprised by the need to anneal brand new brass. I purchased 150 6.5x57 PPU cases to neck down for a 244 Rem. After necking down in a Redding FL sizer, I could not push an 80 gr FB bullet into the neck without collapsing the shoulder. I had to anneal all of them before they would accept a bullet.

During this exercise I attempted to pull a 95 gr fb from a case which had been necked down for a Rem 788 in 6mm. I loaded these in 2017. in new PPU 7x57 brass

I could not move the bullet with a kinetic bullet puller. I put the cartridge into my seating die and seated it 10/1000" deeper and still could not pull it with the kinetic puller using a chunk of rail road track as an anvil. I had to wait for a 6mm collet to arrive for my Hornady cam lock puller.

There are 100 of these 95 gr over IMR 4831 which should be broken down, annealed and reloaded. Maybe I can get the grandkids to shoot them all up, and anneal afterward.