Slowly getting the components together to shoot my new to me 7/08 NULA. I have never shot such a light rifle from the bench to develope handloads. For my other hunting rifles (7.5-9#) I use a couple of kneeling bags under the forend with a rear bag.
I know the NULA has a reputation of great accuracy and would like to wring out the best in this rifle. Any suggestions? Thanks

For accuracy testing with a light rifle Mule Deer suggested a very soft towel under the forend. I have tried that and it gets good results.

However if the purpose of a light rifle is to hit something with the first shot then perhaps field positions should be used and or proven on targets.

How would you hold, rest or shoot the rifle at game?

Westernmassman,

First things first. Welcome to the 24 HOUR CAMPFIRE.

I am primarily a hunter and like/shoot light rifles.

What has worked well for me is a thick sponge, not real sponge but the artificial foam material, that I picked up in the detergent isle of the grocery store. I lay it on my rest and cover it with a terry cloth towel and shoot off that. I have no way to prove it but I like to think that it approximates the lift of my hand in the field.

The 7/08 NULA may be a bit lively when loaded to the max. My Kimber 300WSM sure is and the PAST pad on my shoulder has definitely been helpful also.

99 Sav., in his above post, has it right.

Again, welcome to the fire.

Jim

My Montana in 338 FED is very lively a the bench. I found technique makes a very significant difference in consistency. What works for me is a bag under the forend (near mag box) and another under the rear of the stock. Then simply grab as if shooting offhand and hold with a firm, but not too tight, grip. I have to hold the forend to get any kind of groups. Basically replicates field position but with extra stability form the bags. If you don't hold the forend it jumps real bad and groups get very large.

having never had any experience with ultralight rifles and reading about all these special techniques needed to make them shoot accurately and consistantly how do they perform being shot prone with attached bipod?

I've never shot one from prone with a bipod, because I tend to use a daypack for prone shots in the field, so dunno.

But I that found the bench technique described above, with a towel folded over the front rest, shoots to the same place as shooting over a daypack--one reason I use it. Lighter rifles are a little more sensitive to the hardness of the front rest than heavier rifles, but not so much they're hard to shoot. I've killed a bunch of big game at ranges out to 450 yards with rifles weighing well under 7 pounds with scope.

Not sure there are "special" techniques, rather they just respond better to being supported. I only have a limited experience shooting my Montana off a bipod. That was off a bench vice prone, but it didn't shoot that well. If I gripped the forend it may shoot just fine. Don't recall if I've ever tried that. It wants to kick the front up, a lot. In contrast, my 26" heavy barreled .308 Win requires no contact on the forend and shoots real well.

I use a typical leather sand bag front rest, but rest the rifle on the bag under the chamber. This technique works with a solid grip or under the butt stock with the off hand.

My Montana 84M in 308 Win shot surprisingly well from a bipod. Haven't tried the 84Ls from a bipod yet.

was just curious. ill stick to my big heavy rifles. no muss no fuss. when and if i ever get too weak or lazy to pack a gun built my way into the field ill revisit the lightweight rifle thingy

Light rigs will often have enough muzzle jump to mess up consistency if such muzzle jump isn't controlled somehow.

At least with my Montanas, it's worse off a real hard bag. The towel deal works, but I still hold the forend to control muzzle jump - for a couple of reasons.

First, it's what works.

Second, it's how I will shoot it from various field positions when I hunt - and that's my main use for a rifle.

I want consistency - what works in load work-up & sight in needs to go to the same POI from field positions when I hunt. A firm (but not deathlike) grip on the forearm works on lightweight rifles for such purposes, IME.

As far as bench technique, I'll add that a front bag as far back toward the action as comfortable seems to work best. Also, be really aware of where your pistol grip and sling swivels are in relation to your bags. It's easy for them to recoil into the bags, which gives inconsistent results.

DJ

Agreed on the stuff above.

My experience has always been that lightweight rigs respond best to being held and controlled.

Well here's a "special trick" that you can use when shooting from bags. To fire the rifle, place your trigger finger on the trigger and your thumb behind the triggerguard, then "pinch" the trigger. When I use this technique, as opposed to holding the pistolgrip with the trigger hand, the rifle does not move as much in reaction to trigger pressure and letoff. This results in better groups.

Of course, the best method for reducing movement due to trigger action is to have a gunsmith adjust the trigger. This includes lightening pull weight, limiting sear engagement, and limiting overtravel. But like most things in life, it's easy to go overboard with trigger adjustments.

Any other "secrets" you'd care to let us in on?

Let us know how your "special trick" works with ultra lightweight rifles some time...

I just told you.

I have a Nula 7mm-08 and a Montana .338Fed. The Nula shoots great without any special technique. Sometimes it shoots scary great and sometimes just great, but as of yet never bad. When I talked to Mr. Forbes I asked about shooting it from the bench and if I should hold the forend. He said you can, and if so, do it with a light hold, but just make sure you duplicate it as best as possible with each shot.

The days that for whatever reason it seems to be rock solid with a light hold are usually the days it shoots best. I seriously doubt that your Nula 7mm-08 will require anything all that special to make it shoot great if you already have a sound technique. There just isn't that much muzzle jump in a Nula 7mm-08.

The Kimber .338Fed is a different animal and will bite me if I don't pay attention. Thus I use a firmer grip which makes consistency from the bench more difficult. From field positions it still hits targets as good as I can shoot it, so I don't give it much thought.

Both of my Montanas shoot sub-MOA off the bench with the forend supported off a standard Caldwell tripod with the leather bag with a folded leather glove covering it (four soft layers of leather or more). I locate the rest well behind the front swivel but ahead of the chamber. I grip the forend behind the rest and use the bunny eared leather bag under the butt stock.

The 7-08 and the .338 Federal both shoot about the same and are capable of good accuracy with the loads that shoot best.

Agreed.

x3...plus I really focus on maintaining consistency of pressure of buttstock on shoulder and minimal torque on the pistol grip duting the trigger squeeze. Shooting light rifles can definitely teach some lessons. Makes me wonder how many times I concluded a load was sub-par when it was really inconsistent form.

I close my eyes and flinch.

TFF

Good one.
I hunt with a Weatherby Ultra Lightweight .30-06.
When Federal still made them I used the Premium High Energy 180 gr Nosler Partition load.
Stout to say the least.

P

John,

My 30-378 AI rifle weighs on the heavy side of 16 lbs w/scope and loaded. I've found from the bench I get more consistent and accurate results if I have a hard hold on the rifle. That much powder going off feels like a little bomb going off in the chamber, and if I try to let it ride the bags and recoil on its own, I get inconsistent results downrange.

For me, my 338 Fed Montana really enforced the discipline of having a FIRM cheek weld on the stock, like you're laying your head on a pillow. Before I shoot I always make sure that my neck and shoulders are totally relaxed and the full weight of my grape is on the rifle. I found that this keeps the muzzle jump down and helps to tame recoil as well. It also is a good habit to have when shooting any other rifle.

Thanks for the tips. Trying a NULA has been an itch I have wanted to scratch for many years!

Magnumdood,

With hard-kicking rifles I hold them as well, using a bench technique suggested by Elmer Keith: rest the forend on the front bag in basically the same place you would when shooting in the field, then grasp the forend with your hand touching the bag.

But with my NULA .30-06, my hardest-kicking truly light rifle, I've found the folded towel on top of the front bag results in 1/2" groups when only holding the pistol grip. And it shoots the same way in the field, whether rested over a daypack from prone or shooting off sticks when sitting or offhand.

I generally use the same the basic techniques with all my rifles.

I rest the forearm on the front bag and lightly but firmly hold the forearm in front of the bag pulling the rifle into my shoulder.

On a #1 I position the front bag as far back towards the action as possible.

My 260 Montana seems to respond favorably to this technique as do my other rifles.

Good luck with yours!

And is this NULA 30-06 full length bedded like the rest of Mel's rifles?

Yes.

Should note that my previous post was a little unclear. When shooting off sticks I grip the forend normally, and rest my hand on the sticks.

I've got 2 Colt Light Rifles that weigh 7# with scope. Both are 30-06 and with 150-165 grain bullets, recoil in not unpleasant. Stepping up to heavy loaded 200+ grainers, they become handfuls and I can only shoot about 50 rounds comfortably off the bench (unless I have a padded shirt or jacket on).

A friend of mine (who posts here) once fired a couple of shots with the 180-grain Trophy Bonded High-Energy factory load from my NULA, which weighs around 6-1/2 pounds with scope. That HE load was advertised at 2880 but got around 2940 in my rifle, very close to standard SAAMI .300 Winchester ballistics.

He's a very experienced shot and hunter, and has used a .300 Weatherby quite a bit. But he didn't like the NULA with that load! Didn't bother me much, but the rifle may not have fit him all that well, either, which can have a major effect on recoil tolerance.

My 7.75lb scoped 300WBY is the only rifle I hold the forearm. It doesn't jump as bad now with the Edge Tech McM Hunter stock due to shifting weight forward. It's an example of going lighter actually made it more pleasant. I have several 7lb or less scoped rifles and all free recoil but I have always used a folded small towel on top of the front bag.

Personally, I never free recoil any game rifle, as I figure that while hunting I will never be letting it hang free either. I always put the gun on the sand bag, then place my hand around the forend and try to hold it as closely as I can to how I think I will hold it in the field. No surprises for me that way.

I'm still trying to find the right technique! I have a Weatherby Ultralight in 30-06 and the first time I shot 180's out of it I thought I was shooting an elephant gun! I dropped down to 150's and it shoots sub MOA groups but I still flinch! If it doesn't get better I'm going to sell it.

My 280AI is a hair over 7lbs, and it is a jumpy little turd. Was shooting it today, and even with 120's it was trying to kiss my face with the scope.

I noticed with lighter guns a light trigger pull and only two light fingers on the pistol grip helps. I am going to try MD's towel technique next time.

DakotaDeer,

The biggie (as with any shooting) is to test whether the POI is the same with various holds, or at various temperatures, or whatever.

I have yet to find a rifle that shot to a different POI when held with one hand or two, as long as the forend was rested on a folded towel, a daypack or my hand. That includes ranges to at least 500 yards with lightweight rifles.

If your experience is different, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

You can't be flinching too bad, with sub MOA groups...

DF

Aren't all internet groups sub-MOA?

No.

My .280 Rem mountain rifle went 1", 3/4", 5/8", and 1 1/4" in that order today at the range. My buddy shot it and got a 1 1/4 inch group as well.

It sits in a Mickey Edge and is right at 5 lbs 10 ozs as I recall.

How I hold it defenitely makes a difference in group size btw.

Oh yeah...I'm forgetting the two attempts I made free-hand where I missed the 8.5x11 paper entirely. Talk about humbling...

The lesson learned today is that I need to spend less time trying to shoot tiny groups from a bench and more time practicing real field conditions...i.e. shooting sticks, free-hand, kneeling, laying down with my day pack, etc.

Dave

Holy crap--nightmares from the past! Fed Hi Energy 180gr Partition .30-06 loads rattled my fillings loose. My Ruger with its rubber tire recoil pad made sure that I didn't miss any of the recoil. I developed a flinch that few could even hope to match. Eventually, I ended up shooting about 1000 rounds of .22lr to get back to somewhat normal.

A sign of high intelligence....

That's the stuff that moves rifle shooting from science to art form.....there are fewer "artists" today.That sort of regimen used to be "standard operating procedure",and a guy could not call himself a rifleman unless he had mastered that stuff.

I shoot one 3 shot group every time I go to the range, by the third shot I'm really anticipating the recoil. As good as this gun shoots, carries and feels if I can't beat the recoil I'm going to get rid of it

JB,

Have you run that test with Kimber Montanas?

IME, they are the only ones that insist on some kind of hold on the forearm to remain consistent.

Particularly with my 84M 7-08 and 308 Montanas, they will hum 2 or 3 on the money laid across a pack/towel, or other rest which is not too hard, but will send the occasional flyer which I attribute to some level of inconsistency that I am allowing in muzzle jump - since they will stay consistent if I hang onto them up front.

I'm wondering if full length bedding on a really light contour flyweight rifle might not be of more benefit than on Sporter weight barrels - and may even be better than bedded and floated.

My Montanas shoot well enough I probably won't full length bed them, but I wonder how one would act full length bedded.

DJ

DJ,

No, I haven't run that test on Kimber Montanas. The two cebterfire Kimbers I have right now are both walnut-stocked, and they shoot just fine without me holding onto the forend--though I do use a folded towel over the front bag.

I also have a Merkel K-1 single-shot .308 that weighs about 6-3/4 pounds with scope, and it shoots very accurately with the forend rested over a towel/bag or daypack.

Thanks, JB.

I don't see extreme flyers with them without a forend hold unless I'm shooting off a hard bag. Learned this lesson the hard way with my first Montana - a 300 WSM. Hanging on and padding that rest cured its ills, and I've done it ever since.

But even off a gunsock (which I generally use instead of a towel, but to the same effect), the Montanas I've run are a bit more consistent if I have a forend hold.

Incidentally, my Montana 223 is the most forgiving and fun to shoot of the lot - for obvious reasons - but it just wants to hit where it should beyond all reason. I've shot silly groups at 300-400 yards with it from field positions - off sticks and packs and my knee - sometimes in more wind than seems reasonable. Just dial elevation, make a pretty good guess on wind and start shooting, and it seems to almost seek the target.

It is the most fun and naturally great shooting rifle I've ever played with, and should only get better when I shoot the barrel out and AI it.

I killed a doe on a dead run with it this year at around 100 yards on the last day of the season - just swung through her and daylighted her a little and stuck it right behind her shoulder. Felt like wing shooting with a really well balanced shotgun.

An ultra light can sure shine if it fits right.

DJ

My FWT 30-06 is in a very light HS stock from a long time ago. Bare rifle goes about 6.25 pounds.

I find that it "wanders" ever so slightly if I don't hold on to it a bit in the forend. However, this varies according to how hard the front bag is. Sometimes I use a pant leg filled with corn, that one doesn't wander much. But if using a standard sandbag, it does make it move around some. Similar to JB's towel idea. So, maybe my groups moved based on hardness of the substrate only, but they never seem to change if I use my hand to hold the forend.

Also, off sticks, the gun seems to shoot a lot better groups if I use my front hand to simply hang on to the forend.

The other reason I took to holding the forend down was that I used to shoot only 180 grainers, and in that light rifle they bit my cheek pretty good if I just let it sit there on the front bag. I've found that even just laying the weight of my front hand across the barrel tends to make it come back straighter.

I'll let you borrow my Montana if you let me borrow your NULA. I promise I'll take it bear hunting a bunch and beat the [bleep] out of it

Dan,

Thanks for the great offer! Unfortunately, I've already beat the bleep out of the NULA....

v

Well gee John, if you've already trashed the NULA, just send it me. I collect abused rifles.

I learned that too. Suddenly the difference between a .7" group and a 1.0" groups seem rather insignificant.

I get horrible vertical stringing unless I take a very firm hold on the forend of light rifles. .243 on down shoot fine, but once recoil goes up, yikes!

That's the great thing about an "ugly" rifle. If you beat the [bleep] out of it, it doesn't get any uglier

I would never do that kind of stuff to a rifle from D'Arcy or the likes.

Yeah, that's what synthetic stocked rifles are for.

Not that my walnut-stockec custom rifles don't have some dings, but when the going might get really tough I tend to reach for one of my relatively few syn-stocked rifles. Since this NULA's a .30-06, it gets reached for a lot. It's also so accurate and easy to shoot that it gets used quite a bit for testing scopes for articles--partly because a 6-1/2 pound (scoped) .30-06 has enough recoil to shake an iffy scope apart.

You know, I've been struggling what to build for my next rifle and Glen doesn't need specifics just yet.

Now its a toss up between a 6 1/2 pound 30-06 or a 7 1/2 pound 338 WM.

I need to take a trip down your way and shoot that NULA sometime

That would be fine. I've also got a Model 28 .257 Weatherby, and Eileen might even let you shoot her M20 .257 Roberts.

I just saw this..Owning four (I think) Nulas and having messed around with a bunch more I agree with MD in that they really shoot much better off a soft padded rest or held in your hand. Soft rest in the field include your hands, back packs,hunting jackets, cowboy hats, bed rolls, moss, and?? All have worked well.

Off the bench a sinclair rest with a leather bag and folded towel in the front,a sand filled bunny bag in the rear forward of the rear swivel. In the front I position the rest so it is pretty far back towards the trigger gaurd. If I am really looking for small groups I will put a piece of masking tape on the forend where it sits in the rest so the gun is positioned exactly the same each time. I also hold the forearm in front of the rest on all except my .223.

The NULA's are the only light weight rifle I have shot that pretty much come straight back without much muzzle rise.

I like em.


Lefty C

It would be fun

Theory has it that a guy like me, who likes to use a real sling, would experience quite a zero shift. I'd like to see once and for all if its theory, or true.

And then there's always the fact that good whiskey won't drink itself

JB
Just checking, if you or anyone else might know what the Ballistic Coefficient is on the above 180 grain bullet.

Thanks for your time.

Dan,

I suspect you would be surprised at how little effect a tight sling has on a NULA, due to the very stiff stock. But when shooting at longer distances I much prefer to rest the rifle over a daypack, so....

If you make it down, we can come up with some sort of Irish rotgut!

Hammerdown,

My guess is that it's a lot like the protected-point 180 Nosler Partition, since the profile is very similar. The PP 180's is around .360 as I recall.

The number is kind of irrelevant, however, unless you have a bunch of the old ammo or bullets lying around.

Thanks John

Anyone venture a guess why this padding helps over a leather bag?

I have a lightweight 270 I had built a couple years ago that should be an excellent shooter. Kinda giving me fits, but this thread is shedding some light on possible reasons..

.

My guess is it's because light rifles are more sensitive to a hard rest than heavier rifles. Of course, even a 10-pound rifle will "bounce" and put its shots high when rested on something really hard, like a log, but even a sandbag can become relatively hard when packed down by some shooting.

When I started fooling around with really light hunting rifles(under 7 pounds with scope) 20-some years ago, I noticed some of them strung shots vertically, at random. I tried a folded towel and the stringing went away.

I shoot a model 28 in 300WM using Mel`s Bench Wizard rear bag..JB turned me onto it and it works real well to tame the recoil...I will say it is a little cumbersome for me to get a good cheek weld with it sometimes..I doubt you would need one for a 7-08 that gun should be a joy to shoot using the methods pointed out in this post ! Has anyone ever tried shooting a NULA off a bipod ?

Do you think this towel trick will help a 308 Carbine that tends to go into "lift off" when fired?

.

Probably.

It will still lift off, but will probably group better.

Still waiting on my 223 Montana. This ^^^ isn't helping any!

Late to the party but this bolded text is so very much similar to what the original founders of old Kimber of Oregon spoke of - what they were after in their rifles, that I felt compelled to mention it... OT

They hit the nail on the head with the 84M's, IMHO - especially the ones with the smallest holes in the barrels. The extra beef is perfect - and makes me like the feel and handle of my Montana 223 just a little better than my Montana 308.

Or maybe it's because it doesn't kick me...grin.

They're both plenty sweet, though.

DJ